{"id":150574,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150574","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf2fec360077e612e2eef14c05a86b4f80f8ba9b0039caa7a60ee1a9492a26f8aa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:37:06 - 09:48:32","影片長度":"00:11:26","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部、教育部、衛生福利部、內政部警政署就「青少年法治教育與犯罪防制成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共6案。\n【其中各案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-10"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":686,"end_time":"2024-03-28T09:48:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T09:37:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":582,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時37分）主席，請蔡部長。"],["主席：有請蔡部長。"],["沈委員發惠：部長早。今天我們安排有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效專案的專題報告，就這麼巧，我看到你們的書面報告裡面也有提到少年矯正學校的相關問題，這麼巧，就在昨天下午敦品中學，就是4間矯正學校之一，敦品中學發生了騷動事件，請問部長，就它相關的處置，你對社會有什麼樣的說明？"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝委員的關心，第一時間矯正署也有去瞭解，瞭解的結果是因為學生對於課程有意見，本來學校是安排在教室內自習，但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球，所以在溝通上產生了一些問題，造成學生的騷動，大概狀況是這樣。詳細情形，矯正署署長有來，要不要請他再詳細說明？"],["沈委員發惠：我們請署長一起上來。"],["主席：請周署長。"],["沈委員發惠：不過部長，昨天這個事情發生，這都是依媒體報導，我沒有看到你們的相關報告，依據媒體報導，從2點半開始到5點40分，將近三個多小時的時間，看起來這好像是突發的事件，但事實上在20天前3月7號，一樣就在敦品中學也發生了相關的騷動事件，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：請署長說明一下。"],["周署長輝煌：跟委員報告，委員提及上一次的那個事件……"],["沈委員發惠：3月7號。"],["周署長輝煌：跟昨天的是不同生活區……"],["沈委員發惠：當然是不同事件，時間都不一樣啊。"],["周署長輝煌：不同的區域，上一次是因為我們同仁要求施工廠商的工人不能嚼檳榔。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道，這個媒體有報導，但是在3月7號發生後，敦品中學的校方表示，他們第一時間通報警方，已派員前往關心慰問，要加強法治教育及行為輔導，要杜絕類似事件的發生。結果杜絕了20天，又發生昨天這樣的事件，那我看昨天算第二次發生了，你們是不是有什麼樣的檢討及說明？它說學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末，安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全，避免事件再發生。這次不敢說杜絕了。部長，有關這樣的處理流程，有沒有什麼樣的SOP？"],["蔡部長清祥：有，如果學生有意見，應該要充分地溝通，尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式，所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的。原來這是少年輔育院，改制為學校，就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化的目的。"],["沈委員發惠：你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通則，你們對於這樣的學生，其實相關獎懲手段、工具並不多，第一個就是告誡，第二個就是勞動服務1至5日，就這樣。請問部長，昨天發生這樣的事情，對於這些相關學生的累進處遇有沒有影響？"],["蔡部長清祥：感化教育當然還是著重在教育，所以我們儘量用溝通的方式告訴他錯在哪裡，用這樣的方式會比較好。"],["沈委員發惠：因為昨天的事件其實規模是滿大的，其實是一件規模滿大的事件，你們總共調動了多少警力？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有，那是在外圍戒備而已，主要還是靠輔導老師……"],["沈委員發惠：你們鄰近調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄，八德監獄等矯正機關的警力都到場，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：這是我們的SOP啦，就是發生狀況的時候要用區域聯防的方式，附近的監所要來支援，但是都在外圍，不會馬上就進入，學生主要還是要靠老師來溝通嘛。"],["沈委員發惠：部長，按照剛剛所提到的少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通則相關規定，檢察官及地方法院少年法庭就有關刑罰、感化教育之執行事項，得隨時考核矯正學校。這個部分有沒有在做？"],["蔡部長清祥：有，主要因為這是少年法庭的法官，他諭知來受感化教育，所以他們也會繼續關切並幫忙輔導。"],["沈委員發惠：好，有關這件事情我具體要求，就校內的部分，我希望要加強對於這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核，這是第一件事；第二件事，就目前警衛隊的應變程序，我希望能夠更加完備其應變程序；就外部的部分，希望法務部跟教育部針對相關事件加強督導。矯正署長請回。"],["蔡部長清祥：好，謝謝委員的指教，我覺得這些建議很好，我們會努力來做。"],["沈委員發惠：好，那部長請回。我請邢總長。"],["主席：請檢察總長。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：邢總長早。有關民國105年所起訴的案子，在今年1月24號判刑定讞，是有關退役軍官崔沂生、李慶賢、葉瑞璋刺探、蒐集交付情報，並收受報酬的這個案子。邢總長，你對於這個案件有所瞭解吧？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：大概知道，因為這個案子我……"],["沈委員發惠：判刑的結果怎麼樣？邢總長，我跟你講，判刑的結果是崔沂生8個月，葉瑞璋8個月，李慶賢7個月加7個月共1年2個月。退役軍官涉及刺探、蒐集情報，最後判刑的結果跟偷一臺摩托車的刑期差不多啦。總長，這個部分你有什麼樣的看法？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：的確，這些涉及到國家安全，其實從性質上講起來，有些案件事實上就是叛國，它的內涵就是叛國，至於判刑、量刑現在普遍講起來，不管從我們國人的反應，還有從我們刑事實務工作者來看，都是過低的，這裡面原因很多，包括我們從修正面還有法院平時的量刑，還有這些……"],["沈委員發惠：總長事實上曾經有對社會做過這樣的說明。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：是。"],["沈委員發惠：就是針對這些國安案件的量刑普遍過低，你有表示過你的意見。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：是。"],["沈委員發惠：最新修正的，在2月29日。我們修正過後的國安法，到目前的第一個案子是哪一個案子？就是我們起訴的第一個案子，在國安法修正之後。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：國安法？委員指教的是哪一方面？"],["沈委員發惠：111年修正之後。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：因為這種類型很多，委員能不能……"],["沈委員發惠：何建華案你知道嗎？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：我知道，我知道。"],["沈委員發惠：他在上個月一審判決出爐，判決結果是什麼？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：無罪。"],["沈委員發惠：你有沒有仔細看過他的判決書？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：有，我跟承辦檢察官也研究過。"],["沈委員發惠：後來你們有上訴嗎？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：會上訴，這個案子會提出上訴。"],["沈委員發惠：這案子有上訴？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：是。"],["沈委員發惠：我看了判決書，之所以判決無罪，當然一方面對於構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同，但是滿主要的一個部分，都直接講你們檢方的蒐證不足，就是證據不足，你沒有辦法證明他現金的來源，你沒辦法證明，我看了好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足，未能證明來源啊！","所以在相關辦理案件，我們一直認為目前法院判決量刑普遍過低，但是另外一方面，我們檢察官自己在辦理相關案件的時候，在整個蒐證的程序上，是不是應該要更加嚴謹？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：因為時間關係，我長話短說，第一個，這個法律的要件還要再更完備。另外，蒐證實在有它的困難性，我跟委員說明，大概有三點，因為資金流、還有人流、還有資訊流，完全都斷掉，都在大陸，所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難，這點要跟委員報告。"],["沈委員發惠：就是因為困難，所以我們對於相關的蒐證，我們檢察官系統應該要就這樣案件的蒐證，以及我們相關的部分怎麼樣來突破，包括它的證據力的問題，我覺得大家應該要來討論，而不是雙手一攤說，就沒辦法蒐證啊！"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：我跟委員報告，所以法令上還請國會再支持我們，否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案，這樣子真的是不夠，可能在法制面還需要大家的支持，尤其是國會的支持。"],["沈委員發惠：那當然，好，謝謝。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員，謝謝檢察總長。接下來有請謝委員龍介發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-10","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","傅崐萁","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","張雅琳","吳沛憶","鄭天財Sra 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\"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 681.809, \"end\": 681.869, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 681.869, \"end\": 682.029, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 682.029, \"end\": 682.149, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 682.149, \"end\": 682.169, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,706 --> 00:00:32,436\n主席有請蔡部長有請蔡部長部長早今天我們安排這個有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效的一個專題報告\n\n2\n00:00:35,319 --> 00:01:03,812\n那這這麼巧在我看到你們的這個書面報告裡面也有提到這個有關有關這個少年矯正學校的相關的問題這麼巧就在昨天下午我們的這個敦品中學就我們世間矯正學校之一這個敦品中學所發生的這樣子騷動的事件請問部長你這邊就它相關的處置你有什麼樣的\n\n3\n00:01:05,471 --> 00:01:06,015\n對社會的說明。\n\n4\n00:01:08,967 --> 00:01:33,735\n謝謝委員的關心第一時間矯正署他也有去了解了解的結果是因為學生對於課程他有意見本來學校是安排是自習在教室內自習但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球所以在溝通上產生了一些問題而且造成學生的這個\n\n5\n00:01:36,376 --> 00:02:04,868\n稍動。大概是狀況是這樣,詳細的情形,矯正署署長有來,要不要請他再詳細的說明。我們這個署長一起,請這個署長一起上來。來,請周署長。不過部長齁,我,我想我還,昨天這個事情齁,從發生,我看,我這都是依媒體報導啦,我沒有看到你們相關的報告。依照媒體報導從兩點半開始到五點四十,將近三個多小時。三個多小時的事件齁。那這個,\n\n6\n00:02:06,476 --> 00:02:06,977\n署長說明一下\n\n7\n00:02:24,912 --> 00:02:41,423\n跟委員提及了上一次的那個事件跟昨天的是不同生活區不同的區域那上一次是因為我們的同仁要求那個施工的廠商工人不能叫檳榔這個媒體有報導但是在3月7號的時候發生\n\n8\n00:02:48,513 --> 00:03:13,286\n我們這個這個端平中學的校方表示齁這個我們第一時間齁通報警方對然後這個已派員前往關心慰問齁要加強法際教育及行為輔導要杜絕杜絕類似事件的發生結果杜絕了20天杜絕了20天就又發生昨天的這樣的事件\n\n9\n00:03:14,875 --> 00:03:36,986\n那我再看昨天這個算第二次發生了嗎?你們應該是不是有什麼樣的檢討跟說明?因為你們是學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全避免事件再發生這一次不敢說凍結了部長我們有關相關的這樣子的處理有什麼樣的SOP?\n\n10\n00:03:42,652 --> 00:04:03,997\n有如果學生他有意見應該要充分的溝通尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的我們原來是少年府議院改制為學校就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化他們的目的\n\n11\n00:04:05,037 --> 00:04:29,699\n你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通責事實上你們對於相關這樣的學生這些學生你們有關的獎懲其實手段工具並不多你們就是看起來就是第一告誡第二就是勞動服務一至五日就這樣請問部長昨天發生這樣的事情對於這些相關學生他們的累進處遇有沒有影響\n\n12\n00:04:31,069 --> 00:04:37,152\n因為昨天這樣的事件其實規模是蠻大的其實是一件規模蠻大的事件沒有,那是在外圍戒備而已啦\n\n13\n00:04:56,127 --> 00:05:22,395\n那主要還是靠輔導老師你們就臨近你們調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄、巴德監獄的矯正所有的這些警力都到場這是我們有SOP啦就是發生狀況的時候要叫區域聯防的方式附近的監所要來支援但是都在外圍不會馬上就進入主要學生還是要靠老師來溝通矯正學校的這個設置跟教育實施通則事實上檢察官\n\n14\n00:05:23,325 --> 00:05:42,533\n跟這個地方法院他就有關刑法感化教育執行事項得隨時考核、矯正學校呢?這個我們有沒有在做?有,主要因為這是少年法庭的法官他預知來受感化教育的所以他們也會繼續的來關切來幫忙輔導\n\n15\n00:05:46,138 --> 00:06:07,386\n好,這個事情我就具體做要求就校內的部分我希望這些教導員跟輔導教師要怎麼樣加強對於我們的這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核這是第一件事第二件事目前的警衛隊他的應變程序我希望能夠更加的我們能夠更加完備他的應變程序\n\n16\n00:06:08,806 --> 00:06:29,137\n就外部的部分希望說這個法務部跟教育部能夠針對甚至包括教育部針對這個相關的這些事件加強督導這部分我們矯正署長請回謝謝委員的指教我覺得建議很好我們會來努力來做好那部長請我請這個刑同長部長你可以先來請檢察總長\n\n17\n00:06:38,190 --> 00:06:40,052\n這個齁有關這個我們民國105年所起訴的齁在今年1月24號\n\n18\n00:06:54,777 --> 00:07:16,517\n這個判刑這個定讞齁判刑定讞的這個有關退役軍官崔醫生李慶賢葉瑞章的這些刺探收集交付情報收受報酬的這個案子這個秦總長你對於這相關案件有有所瞭解吧大概知道判刑的結果怎麼樣\n\n19\n00:07:21,301 --> 00:07:47,183\n總長我跟你講啦這個判刑的結果齁這個這個崔醫生8個月啦葉瑞璋8個月啦這個李慶賢他7個月7個月1年2年欸這個1年2個月啦齁總長這個這個涉及涉及退役軍官涉及刺探收集情報最後判刑的結果跟偷一台摩托車的刑期差不多啦\n\n20\n00:07:50,841 --> 00:08:04,130\n總長,這個部分,是不是總長你有什麼看法?這個的確,這些涉及到國家安全,其實從性質上講起來,有些案件事實上就是叛國,它的內涵就是叛國。\n\n21\n00:08:06,753 --> 00:08:25,202\n判刑現在普遍講起來量刑一般不管從我們國人的反應還有從我們這個刑事上的我們實施的這個刑事實務的工作者我們來看都是過低那這裡面原因很多原因很多包括我們這個\n\n22\n00:08:28,273 --> 00:08:54,066\n從施政面還有這個法院平時的量刑還有這些立法總長事實上有曾經對社會有做過這樣的說明是是是針對這些國安案件的這個量刑普遍過低你又表示你的意見了是那這個最新的齁我們在2月29我們這次我們在這個我們修正過後的國安法到目前好像第一個案子是哪一個案子\n\n23\n00:08:56,291 --> 00:09:17,049\n我們起訴起訴的第一個案子那個國安法修正之後這國安法這個委員只要是哪一方面的111年修正之後因為這種類型很多啊好委員能不能有關這個這個何建華何建華案你知道嗎我知道我知道他在他在\n\n24\n00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:40,175\n上個月一審判決。判決結果是什麼?無罪。無罪嗎?無罪。你有沒有仔細看他的判決書?有。我跟那個常辦檢察官也研究過。有研究過。後來你們這有上訴嗎?會上訴。這案子會提上訴。這案子有上訴齁?是。我看這判決書齁,這個大概整個之所以判決無罪齁,當然一方面\n\n25\n00:09:40,835 --> 00:10:03,102\n有對於這個構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同但是滿主要的一個部分其實就是直接講你們檢方的收證不足就是證據不足你沒有辦法證明他那個現金的來源你沒有辦法證明簡單我看好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足未能證明來源\n\n26\n00:10:05,973 --> 00:10:16,983\n所以在相關辦理案件我們除了說我們一直認為說目前的法院的判決良心普遍過低但是另外一方面我們自己\n\n27\n00:10:17,967 --> 00:10:41,755\n我們的這個檢察官在辦理相關的案件的時候在整個收證的程序是不是應該更加嚴謹?是委員我大概因為時間我長話短說第一個這個法律的要件還要再更完備另外收證12它的困難性我跟委員說大概有3點因為資金流還有人流還有資訊流完全斷掉都在大陸所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難這點跟委員報告\n\n28\n00:10:44,042 --> 00:11:00,327\n但是就是因為困難啦齁這個困難所以我們這個對於相關的這樣修正齁我覺得我們這個我們這個檢察官系統齁我們應該要就這樣的案件的我們的修正齁以及我們的相關的怎麼樣來突破\n\n29\n00:11:02,689 --> 00:11:22,169\n在這個在他的證據力的問題我覺得應該要大家要來討論而不是雙手一攤說就沒辦法蒐證阿所以這個法律上還請這個我們國會在支持我們否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案阿這樣真的是不夠可是在法制裡面還需要大家的尤其國會的支持那當然那當然好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12706\t32436\t主席有請蔡部長有請蔡部長部長早今天我們安排這個有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效的一個專題報告\n35319\t63812\t那這這麼巧在我看到你們的這個書面報告裡面也有提到這個有關有關這個少年矯正學校的相關的問題這麼巧就在昨天下午我們的這個敦品中學就我們世間矯正學校之一這個敦品中學所發生的這樣子騷動的事件請問部長你這邊就它相關的處置你有什麼樣的\n65471\t66015\t對社會的說明。\n68967\t93735\t謝謝委員的關心第一時間矯正署他也有去了解了解的結果是因為學生對於課程他有意見本來學校是安排是自習在教室內自習但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球所以在溝通上產生了一些問題而且造成學生的這個\n96376\t124868\t稍動。大概是狀況是這樣,詳細的情形,矯正署署長有來,要不要請他再詳細的說明。我們這個署長一起,請這個署長一起上來。來,請周署長。不過部長齁,我,我想我還,昨天這個事情齁,從發生,我看,我這都是依媒體報導啦,我沒有看到你們相關的報告。依照媒體報導從兩點半開始到五點四十,將近三個多小時。三個多小時的事件齁。那這個,\n126476\t126977\t署長說明一下\n144912\t161423\t跟委員提及了上一次的那個事件跟昨天的是不同生活區不同的區域那上一次是因為我們的同仁要求那個施工的廠商工人不能叫檳榔這個媒體有報導但是在3月7號的時候發生\n168513\t193286\t我們這個這個端平中學的校方表示齁這個我們第一時間齁通報警方對然後這個已派員前往關心慰問齁要加強法際教育及行為輔導要杜絕杜絕類似事件的發生結果杜絕了20天杜絕了20天就又發生昨天的這樣的事件\n194875\t216986\t那我再看昨天這個算第二次發生了嗎?你們應該是不是有什麼樣的檢討跟說明?因為你們是學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全避免事件再發生這一次不敢說凍結了部長我們有關相關的這樣子的處理有什麼樣的SOP?\n222652\t243997\t有如果學生他有意見應該要充分的溝通尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的我們原來是少年府議院改制為學校就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化他們的目的\n245037\t269699\t你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通責事實上你們對於相關這樣的學生這些學生你們有關的獎懲其實手段工具並不多你們就是看起來就是第一告誡第二就是勞動服務一至五日就這樣請問部長昨天發生這樣的事情對於這些相關學生他們的累進處遇有沒有影響\n271069\t277152\t因為昨天這樣的事件其實規模是蠻大的其實是一件規模蠻大的事件沒有,那是在外圍戒備而已啦\n296127\t322395\t那主要還是靠輔導老師你們就臨近你們調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄、巴德監獄的矯正所有的這些警力都到場這是我們有SOP啦就是發生狀況的時候要叫區域聯防的方式附近的監所要來支援但是都在外圍不會馬上就進入主要學生還是要靠老師來溝通矯正學校的這個設置跟教育實施通則事實上檢察官\n323325\t342533\t跟這個地方法院他就有關刑法感化教育執行事項得隨時考核、矯正學校呢?這個我們有沒有在做?有,主要因為這是少年法庭的法官他預知來受感化教育的所以他們也會繼續的來關切來幫忙輔導\n346138\t367386\t好,這個事情我就具體做要求就校內的部分我希望這些教導員跟輔導教師要怎麼樣加強對於我們的這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核這是第一件事第二件事目前的警衛隊他的應變程序我希望能夠更加的我們能夠更加完備他的應變程序\n368806\t389137\t就外部的部分希望說這個法務部跟教育部能夠針對甚至包括教育部針對這個相關的這些事件加強督導這部分我們矯正署長請回謝謝委員的指教我覺得建議很好我們會來努力來做好那部長請我請這個刑同長部長你可以先來請檢察總長\n398190\t400052\t這個齁有關這個我們民國105年所起訴的齁在今年1月24號\n414777\t436517\t這個判刑這個定讞齁判刑定讞的這個有關退役軍官崔醫生李慶賢葉瑞章的這些刺探收集交付情報收受報酬的這個案子這個秦總長你對於這相關案件有有所瞭解吧大概知道判刑的結果怎麼樣\n441301\t467183\t總長我跟你講啦 這個判刑的結果齁 這個 這個崔醫生8個月啦 葉瑞璋8個月啦 這個李慶賢他7個月7個月1年2年欸 這個1年2個月啦齁 總長這個 這個涉及涉及退役軍官涉及刺探收集情報最後判刑的結果跟偷一台摩托車的刑期差不多啦\n470841\t484130\t總長,這個部分,是不是總長你有什麼看法?這個的確,這些涉及到國家安全,其實從性質上講起來,有些案件事實上就是叛國,它的內涵就是叛國。\n486753\t505202\t判刑現在普遍講起來量刑一般不管從我們國人的反應還有從我們這個刑事上的我們實施的這個刑事實務的工作者我們來看都是過低那這裡面原因很多原因很多包括我們這個\n508273\t534066\t從施政面還有這個法院平時的量刑還有這些立法總長事實上有曾經對社會有做過這樣的說明是是是針對這些國安案件的這個量刑普遍過低你又表示你的意見了是那這個最新的齁我們在2月29我們這次我們在這個我們修正過後的國安法到目前好像第一個案子是哪一個案子\n536291\t557049\t我們起訴起訴的第一個案子那個國安法修正之後這國安法這個委員只要是哪一方面的111年修正之後因為這種類型很多啊好委員能不能有關這個這個何建華何建華案你知道嗎我知道我知道他在他在\n558280\t580175\t上個月一審判決。判決結果是什麼?無罪。無罪嗎?無罪。你有沒有仔細看他的判決書?有。我跟那個常辦檢察官也研究過。有研究過。後來你們這有上訴嗎?會上訴。這案子會提上訴。這案子有上訴齁?是。我看這判決書齁,這個大概整個之所以判決無罪齁,當然一方面\n580835\t603102\t有對於這個構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同但是滿主要的一個部分其實就是直接講你們檢方的收證不足就是證據不足你沒有辦法證明他那個現金的來源你沒有辦法證明簡單我看好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足未能證明來源\n605973\t616983\t所以在相關辦理案件我們除了說我們一直認為說目前的法院的判決良心普遍過低但是另外一方面我們自己\n617967\t641755\t我們的這個檢察官在辦理相關的案件的時候在整個收證的程序是不是應該更加嚴謹?是委員我大概因為時間我長話短說第一個這個法律的要件還要再更完備另外收證12它的困難性我跟委員說大概有3點因為資金流還有人流還有資訊流完全斷掉都在大陸所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難這點跟委員報告\n644042\t660327\t但是就是因為困難啦齁這個困難所以我們這個對於相關的這樣修正齁我覺得我們這個我們這個檢察官系統齁我們應該要就這樣的案件的我們的修正齁以及我們的相關的怎麼樣來突破\n662689\t682169\t在這個在他的證據力的問題我覺得應該要大家要來討論而不是雙手一攤說就沒辦法蒐證阿所以這個法律上還請這個我們國會在支持我們否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案阿這樣真的是不夠可是在法制裡面還需要大家的尤其國會的支持那當然那當然好謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請蔡部長有請蔡部長部長早今天我們安排這個有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效的一個專題報告\n那這這麼巧在我看到你們的這個書面報告裡面也有提到這個有關有關這個少年矯正學校的相關的問題這麼巧就在昨天下午我們的這個敦品中學就我們世間矯正學校之一這個敦品中學所發生的這樣子騷動的事件請問部長你這邊就它相關的處置你有什麼樣的\n對社會的說明。\n謝謝委員的關心第一時間矯正署他也有去了解了解的結果是因為學生對於課程他有意見本來學校是安排是自習在教室內自習但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球所以在溝通上產生了一些問題而且造成學生的這個\n稍動。大概是狀況是這樣,詳細的情形,矯正署署長有來,要不要請他再詳細的說明。我們這個署長一起,請這個署長一起上來。來,請周署長。不過部長齁,我,我想我還,昨天這個事情齁,從發生,我看,我這都是依媒體報導啦,我沒有看到你們相關的報告。依照媒體報導從兩點半開始到五點四十,將近三個多小時。三個多小時的事件齁。那這個,\n署長說明一下\n跟委員提及了上一次的那個事件跟昨天的是不同生活區不同的區域那上一次是因為我們的同仁要求那個施工的廠商工人不能叫檳榔這個媒體有報導但是在3月7號的時候發生\n我們這個這個端平中學的校方表示齁這個我們第一時間齁通報警方對然後這個已派員前往關心慰問齁要加強法際教育及行為輔導要杜絕杜絕類似事件的發生結果杜絕了20天杜絕了20天就又發生昨天的這樣的事件\n那我再看昨天這個算第二次發生了嗎?你們應該是不是有什麼樣的檢討跟說明?因為你們是學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全避免事件再發生這一次不敢說凍結了部長我們有關相關的這樣子的處理有什麼樣的SOP?\n有如果學生他有意見應該要充分的溝通尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的我們原來是少年府議院改制為學校就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化他們的目的\n你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通責事實上你們對於相關這樣的學生這些學生你們有關的獎懲其實手段工具並不多你們就是看起來就是第一告誡第二就是勞動服務一至五日就這樣請問部長昨天發生這樣的事情對於這些相關學生他們的累進處遇有沒有影響\n因為昨天這樣的事件其實規模是蠻大的其實是一件規模蠻大的事件沒有,那是在外圍戒備而已啦\n那主要還是靠輔導老師你們就臨近你們調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄、巴德監獄的矯正所有的這些警力都到場這是我們有SOP啦就是發生狀況的時候要叫區域聯防的方式附近的監所要來支援但是都在外圍不會馬上就進入主要學生還是要靠老師來溝通矯正學校的這個設置跟教育實施通則事實上檢察官\n跟這個地方法院他就有關刑法感化教育執行事項得隨時考核、矯正學校呢?這個我們有沒有在做?有,主要因為這是少年法庭的法官他預知來受感化教育的所以他們也會繼續的來關切來幫忙輔導\n好,這個事情我就具體做要求就校內的部分我希望這些教導員跟輔導教師要怎麼樣加強對於我們的這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核這是第一件事第二件事目前的警衛隊他的應變程序我希望能夠更加的我們能夠更加完備他的應變程序\n就外部的部分希望說這個法務部跟教育部能夠針對甚至包括教育部針對這個相關的這些事件加強督導這部分我們矯正署長請回謝謝委員的指教我覺得建議很好我們會來努力來做好那部長請我請這個刑同長部長你可以先來請檢察總長\n這個齁有關這個我們民國105年所起訴的齁在今年1月24號\n這個判刑這個定讞齁判刑定讞的這個有關退役軍官崔醫生李慶賢葉瑞章的這些刺探收集交付情報收受報酬的這個案子這個秦總長你對於這相關案件有有所瞭解吧大概知道判刑的結果怎麼樣\n總長我跟你講啦 這個判刑的結果齁 這個 這個崔醫生8個月啦 葉瑞璋8個月啦 這個李慶賢他7個月7個月1年2年欸 這個1年2個月啦齁 總長這個 這個涉及涉及退役軍官涉及刺探收集情報最後判刑的結果跟偷一台摩托車的刑期差不多啦\n總長,這個部分,是不是總長你有什麼看法?這個的確,這些涉及到國家安全,其實從性質上講起來,有些案件事實上就是叛國,它的內涵就是叛國。\n判刑現在普遍講起來量刑一般不管從我們國人的反應還有從我們這個刑事上的我們實施的這個刑事實務的工作者我們來看都是過低那這裡面原因很多原因很多包括我們這個\n從施政面還有這個法院平時的量刑還有這些立法總長事實上有曾經對社會有做過這樣的說明是是是針對這些國安案件的這個量刑普遍過低你又表示你的意見了是那這個最新的齁我們在2月29我們這次我們在這個我們修正過後的國安法到目前好像第一個案子是哪一個案子\n我們起訴起訴的第一個案子那個國安法修正之後這國安法這個委員只要是哪一方面的111年修正之後因為這種類型很多啊好委員能不能有關這個這個何建華何建華案你知道嗎我知道我知道他在他在\n上個月一審判決。判決結果是什麼?無罪。無罪嗎?無罪。你有沒有仔細看他的判決書?有。我跟那個常辦檢察官也研究過。有研究過。後來你們這有上訴嗎?會上訴。這案子會提上訴。這案子有上訴齁?是。我看這判決書齁,這個大概整個之所以判決無罪齁,當然一方面\n有對於這個構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同但是滿主要的一個部分其實就是直接講你們檢方的收證不足就是證據不足你沒有辦法證明他那個現金的來源你沒有辦法證明簡單我看好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足未能證明來源\n所以在相關辦理案件我們除了說我們一直認為說目前的法院的判決良心普遍過低但是另外一方面我們自己\n我們的這個檢察官在辦理相關的案件的時候在整個收證的程序是不是應該更加嚴謹?是委員我大概因為時間我長話短說第一個這個法律的要件還要再更完備另外收證12它的困難性我跟委員說大概有3點因為資金流還有人流還有資訊流完全斷掉都在大陸所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難這點跟委員報告\n但是就是因為困難啦齁這個困難所以我們這個對於相關的這樣修正齁我覺得我們這個我們這個檢察官系統齁我們應該要就這樣的案件的我們的修正齁以及我們的相關的怎麼樣來突破\n在這個在他的證據力的問題我覺得應該要大家要來討論而不是雙手一攤說就沒辦法蒐證阿所以這個法律上還請這個我們國會在支持我們否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案阿這樣真的是不夠可是在法制裡面還需要大家的尤其國會的支持那當然那當然好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.706 --> 00:32.436\n主席有請蔡部長有請蔡部長部長早今天我們安排這個有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效的一個專題報告\n\n00:35.319 --> 01:03.812\n那這這麼巧在我看到你們的這個書面報告裡面也有提到這個有關有關這個少年矯正學校的相關的問題這麼巧就在昨天下午我們的這個敦品中學就我們世間矯正學校之一這個敦品中學所發生的這樣子騷動的事件請問部長你這邊就它相關的處置你有什麼樣的\n\n01:05.471 --> 01:06.015\n對社會的說明。\n\n01:08.967 --> 01:33.735\n謝謝委員的關心第一時間矯正署他也有去了解了解的結果是因為學生對於課程他有意見本來學校是安排是自習在教室內自習但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球所以在溝通上產生了一些問題而且造成學生的這個\n\n01:36.376 --> 02:04.868\n稍動。大概是狀況是這樣,詳細的情形,矯正署署長有來,要不要請他再詳細的說明。我們這個署長一起,請這個署長一起上來。來,請周署長。不過部長齁,我,我想我還,昨天這個事情齁,從發生,我看,我這都是依媒體報導啦,我沒有看到你們相關的報告。依照媒體報導從兩點半開始到五點四十,將近三個多小時。三個多小時的事件齁。那這個,\n\n02:06.476 --> 02:06.977\n署長說明一下\n\n02:24.912 --> 02:41.423\n跟委員提及了上一次的那個事件跟昨天的是不同生活區不同的區域那上一次是因為我們的同仁要求那個施工的廠商工人不能叫檳榔這個媒體有報導但是在3月7號的時候發生\n\n02:48.513 --> 03:13.286\n我們這個這個端平中學的校方表示齁這個我們第一時間齁通報警方對然後這個已派員前往關心慰問齁要加強法際教育及行為輔導要杜絕杜絕類似事件的發生結果杜絕了20天杜絕了20天就又發生昨天的這樣的事件\n\n03:14.875 --> 03:36.986\n那我再看昨天這個算第二次發生了嗎?你們應該是不是有什麼樣的檢討跟說明?因為你們是學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全避免事件再發生這一次不敢說凍結了部長我們有關相關的這樣子的處理有什麼樣的SOP?\n\n03:42.652 --> 04:03.997\n有如果學生他有意見應該要充分的溝通尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的我們原來是少年府議院改制為學校就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化他們的目的\n\n04:05.037 --> 04:29.699\n你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通責事實上你們對於相關這樣的學生這些學生你們有關的獎懲其實手段工具並不多你們就是看起來就是第一告誡第二就是勞動服務一至五日就這樣請問部長昨天發生這樣的事情對於這些相關學生他們的累進處遇有沒有影響\n\n04:31.069 --> 04:37.152\n因為昨天這樣的事件其實規模是蠻大的其實是一件規模蠻大的事件沒有,那是在外圍戒備而已啦\n\n04:56.127 --> 05:22.395\n那主要還是靠輔導老師你們就臨近你們調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄、巴德監獄的矯正所有的這些警力都到場這是我們有SOP啦就是發生狀況的時候要叫區域聯防的方式附近的監所要來支援但是都在外圍不會馬上就進入主要學生還是要靠老師來溝通矯正學校的這個設置跟教育實施通則事實上檢察官\n\n05:23.325 --> 05:42.533\n跟這個地方法院他就有關刑法感化教育執行事項得隨時考核、矯正學校呢?這個我們有沒有在做?有,主要因為這是少年法庭的法官他預知來受感化教育的所以他們也會繼續的來關切來幫忙輔導\n\n05:46.138 --> 06:07.386\n好,這個事情我就具體做要求就校內的部分我希望這些教導員跟輔導教師要怎麼樣加強對於我們的這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核這是第一件事第二件事目前的警衛隊他的應變程序我希望能夠更加的我們能夠更加完備他的應變程序\n\n06:08.806 --> 06:29.137\n就外部的部分希望說這個法務部跟教育部能夠針對甚至包括教育部針對這個相關的這些事件加強督導這部分我們矯正署長請回謝謝委員的指教我覺得建議很好我們會來努力來做好那部長請我請這個刑同長部長你可以先來請檢察總長\n\n06:38.190 --> 06:40.052\n這個齁有關這個我們民國105年所起訴的齁在今年1月24號\n\n06:54.777 --> 07:16.517\n這個判刑這個定讞齁判刑定讞的這個有關退役軍官崔醫生李慶賢葉瑞章的這些刺探收集交付情報收受報酬的這個案子這個秦總長你對於這相關案件有有所瞭解吧大概知道判刑的結果怎麼樣\n\n07:21.301 --> 07:47.183\n總長我跟你講啦這個判刑的結果齁這個這個崔醫生8個月啦葉瑞璋8個月啦這個李慶賢他7個月7個月1年2年欸這個1年2個月啦齁總長這個這個涉及涉及退役軍官涉及刺探收集情報最後判刑的結果跟偷一台摩托車的刑期差不多啦\n\n07:50.841 --> 08:04.130\n總長,這個部分,是不是總長你有什麼看法?這個的確,這些涉及到國家安全,其實從性質上講起來,有些案件事實上就是叛國,它的內涵就是叛國。\n\n08:06.753 --> 08:25.202\n判刑現在普遍講起來量刑一般不管從我們國人的反應還有從我們這個刑事上的我們實施的這個刑事實務的工作者我們來看都是過低那這裡面原因很多原因很多包括我們這個\n\n08:28.273 --> 08:54.066\n從施政面還有這個法院平時的量刑還有這些立法總長事實上有曾經對社會有做過這樣的說明是是是針對這些國安案件的這個量刑普遍過低你又表示你的意見了是那這個最新的齁我們在2月29我們這次我們在這個我們修正過後的國安法到目前好像第一個案子是哪一個案子\n\n08:56.291 --> 09:17.049\n我們起訴起訴的第一個案子那個國安法修正之後這國安法這個委員只要是哪一方面的111年修正之後因為這種類型很多啊好委員能不能有關這個這個何建華何建華案你知道嗎我知道我知道他在他在\n\n09:18.280 --> 09:40.175\n上個月一審判決。判決結果是什麼?無罪。無罪嗎?無罪。你有沒有仔細看他的判決書?有。我跟那個常辦檢察官也研究過。有研究過。後來你們這有上訴嗎?會上訴。這案子會提上訴。這案子有上訴齁?是。我看這判決書齁,這個大概整個之所以判決無罪齁,當然一方面\n\n09:40.835 --> 10:03.102\n有對於這個構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同但是滿主要的一個部分其實就是直接講你們檢方的收證不足就是證據不足你沒有辦法證明他那個現金的來源你沒有辦法證明簡單我看好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足未能證明來源\n\n10:05.973 --> 10:16.983\n所以在相關辦理案件我們除了說我們一直認為說目前的法院的判決良心普遍過低但是另外一方面我們自己\n\n10:17.967 --> 10:41.755\n我們的這個檢察官在辦理相關的案件的時候在整個收證的程序是不是應該更加嚴謹?是委員我大概因為時間我長話短說第一個這個法律的要件還要再更完備另外收證12它的困難性我跟委員說大概有3點因為資金流還有人流還有資訊流完全斷掉都在大陸所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難這點跟委員報告\n\n10:44.042 --> 11:00.327\n但是就是因為困難啦齁這個困難所以我們這個對於相關的這樣修正齁我覺得我們這個我們這個檢察官系統齁我們應該要就這樣的案件的我們的修正齁以及我們的相關的怎麼樣來突破\n\n11:02.689 --> 11:22.169\n在這個在他的證據力的問題我覺得應該要大家要來討論而不是雙手一攤說就沒辦法蒐證阿所以這個法律上還請這個我們國會在支持我們否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案阿這樣真的是不夠可是在法制裡面還需要大家的尤其國會的支持那當然那當然好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.706,"end":32.436,"text":"主席有請蔡部長有請蔡部長部長早今天我們安排這個有關青少年法治教育及犯罪防制成效的一個專題報告"},{"start":35.319,"end":63.812,"text":"那這這麼巧在我看到你們的這個書面報告裡面也有提到這個有關有關這個少年矯正學校的相關的問題這麼巧就在昨天下午我們的這個敦品中學就我們世間矯正學校之一這個敦品中學所發生的這樣子騷動的事件請問部長你這邊就它相關的處置你有什麼樣的"},{"start":65.471,"end":66.015,"text":"對社會的說明。"},{"start":68.967,"end":93.735,"text":"謝謝委員的關心第一時間矯正署他也有去了解了解的結果是因為學生對於課程他有意見本來學校是安排是自習在教室內自習但是學生希望到教室外去打籃球所以在溝通上產生了一些問題而且造成學生的這個"},{"start":96.376,"end":124.868,"text":"稍動。大概是狀況是這樣,詳細的情形,矯正署署長有來,要不要請他再詳細的說明。我們這個署長一起,請這個署長一起上來。來,請周署長。不過部長齁,我,我想我還,昨天這個事情齁,從發生,我看,我這都是依媒體報導啦,我沒有看到你們相關的報告。依照媒體報導從兩點半開始到五點四十,將近三個多小時。三個多小時的事件齁。那這個,"},{"start":126.476,"end":126.977,"text":"署長說明一下"},{"start":144.912,"end":161.423,"text":"跟委員提及了上一次的那個事件跟昨天的是不同生活區不同的區域那上一次是因為我們的同仁要求那個施工的廠商工人不能叫檳榔這個媒體有報導但是在3月7號的時候發生"},{"start":168.513,"end":193.286,"text":"我們這個這個端平中學的校方表示齁這個我們第一時間齁通報警方對然後這個已派員前往關心慰問齁要加強法際教育及行為輔導要杜絕杜絕類似事件的發生結果杜絕了20天杜絕了20天就又發生昨天的這樣的事件"},{"start":194.875,"end":216.986,"text":"那我再看昨天這個算第二次發生了嗎?你們應該是不是有什麼樣的檢討跟說明?因為你們是學校已召集學校同仁全面檢討事故發生始末安排加強輔導並加派警力強化校園安全避免事件再發生這一次不敢說凍結了部長我們有關相關的這樣子的處理有什麼樣的SOP?"},{"start":222.652,"end":243.997,"text":"有如果學生他有意見應該要充分的溝通尤其對於青少年不能用強壓的方式所以我們現在著重的是教育的目的我們原來是少年府議院改制為學校就是希望用教育的手段來達到教化他們的目的"},{"start":245.037,"end":269.699,"text":"你們有一個少年矯正學校設置及教育實施通責事實上你們對於相關這樣的學生這些學生你們有關的獎懲其實手段工具並不多你們就是看起來就是第一告誡第二就是勞動服務一至五日就這樣請問部長昨天發生這樣的事情對於這些相關學生他們的累進處遇有沒有影響"},{"start":271.069,"end":277.152,"text":"因為昨天這樣的事件其實規模是蠻大的其實是一件規模蠻大的事件沒有,那是在外圍戒備而已啦"},{"start":296.127,"end":322.395,"text":"那主要還是靠輔導老師你們就臨近你們調了臺北監獄、桃園監獄、巴德監獄的矯正所有的這些警力都到場這是我們有SOP啦就是發生狀況的時候要叫區域聯防的方式附近的監所要來支援但是都在外圍不會馬上就進入主要學生還是要靠老師來溝通矯正學校的這個設置跟教育實施通則事實上檢察官"},{"start":323.325,"end":342.533,"text":"跟這個地方法院他就有關刑法感化教育執行事項得隨時考核、矯正學校呢?這個我們有沒有在做?有,主要因為這是少年法庭的法官他預知來受感化教育的所以他們也會繼續的來關切來幫忙輔導"},{"start":346.138,"end":367.386,"text":"好,這個事情我就具體做要求就校內的部分我希望這些教導員跟輔導教師要怎麼樣加強對於我們的這些教導員跟輔導教師的考核這是第一件事第二件事目前的警衛隊他的應變程序我希望能夠更加的我們能夠更加完備他的應變程序"},{"start":368.806,"end":389.137,"text":"就外部的部分希望說這個法務部跟教育部能夠針對甚至包括教育部針對這個相關的這些事件加強督導這部分我們矯正署長請回謝謝委員的指教我覺得建議很好我們會來努力來做好那部長請我請這個刑同長部長你可以先來請檢察總長"},{"start":398.19,"end":400.052,"text":"這個齁有關這個我們民國105年所起訴的齁在今年1月24號"},{"start":414.777,"end":436.517,"text":"這個判刑這個定讞齁判刑定讞的這個有關退役軍官崔醫生李慶賢葉瑞章的這些刺探收集交付情報收受報酬的這個案子這個秦總長你對於這相關案件有有所瞭解吧大概知道判刑的結果怎麼樣"},{"start":441.301,"end":467.183,"text":"總長我跟你講啦 這個判刑的結果齁 這個 這個崔醫生8個月啦 葉瑞璋8個月啦 這個李慶賢他7個月7個月1年2年欸 這個1年2個月啦齁 總長這個 這個涉及涉及退役軍官涉及刺探收集情報最後判刑的結果跟偷一台摩托車的刑期差不多啦"},{"start":470.841,"end":484.13,"text":"總長,這個部分,是不是總長你有什麼看法?這個的確,這些涉及到國家安全,其實從性質上講起來,有些案件事實上就是叛國,它的內涵就是叛國。"},{"start":486.753,"end":505.202,"text":"判刑現在普遍講起來量刑一般不管從我們國人的反應還有從我們這個刑事上的我們實施的這個刑事實務的工作者我們來看都是過低那這裡面原因很多原因很多包括我們這個"},{"start":508.273,"end":534.066,"text":"從施政面還有這個法院平時的量刑還有這些立法總長事實上有曾經對社會有做過這樣的說明是是是針對這些國安案件的這個量刑普遍過低你又表示你的意見了是那這個最新的齁我們在2月29我們這次我們在這個我們修正過後的國安法到目前好像第一個案子是哪一個案子"},{"start":536.291,"end":557.049,"text":"我們起訴起訴的第一個案子那個國安法修正之後這國安法這個委員只要是哪一方面的111年修正之後因為這種類型很多啊好委員能不能有關這個這個何建華何建華案你知道嗎我知道我知道他在他在"},{"start":558.28,"end":580.175,"text":"上個月一審判決。判決結果是什麼?無罪。無罪嗎?無罪。你有沒有仔細看他的判決書?有。我跟那個常辦檢察官也研究過。有研究過。後來你們這有上訴嗎?會上訴。這案子會提上訴。這案子有上訴齁?是。我看這判決書齁,這個大概整個之所以判決無罪齁,當然一方面"},{"start":580.835,"end":603.102,"text":"有對於這個構成要件的一些看法跟檢方不同但是滿主要的一個部分其實就是直接講你們檢方的收證不足就是證據不足你沒有辦法證明他那個現金的來源你沒有辦法證明簡單我看好幾個判決理由都是因為證據不足未能證明來源"},{"start":605.973,"end":616.983,"text":"所以在相關辦理案件我們除了說我們一直認為說目前的法院的判決良心普遍過低但是另外一方面我們自己"},{"start":617.967,"end":641.755,"text":"我們的這個檢察官在辦理相關的案件的時候在整個收證的程序是不是應該更加嚴謹?是委員我大概因為時間我長話短說第一個這個法律的要件還要再更完備另外收證12它的困難性我跟委員說大概有3點因為資金流還有人流還有資訊流完全斷掉都在大陸所以我們檢察官辦這種案子非常非常的困難這點跟委員報告"},{"start":644.042,"end":660.327,"text":"但是就是因為困難啦齁這個困難所以我們這個對於相關的這樣修正齁我覺得我們這個我們這個檢察官系統齁我們應該要就這樣的案件的我們的修正齁以及我們的相關的怎麼樣來突破"},{"start":662.689,"end":682.169,"text":"在這個在他的證據力的問題我覺得應該要大家要來討論而不是雙手一攤說就沒辦法蒐證阿所以這個法律上還請這個我們國會在支持我們否則現在很多案件都靠我們國人的愛國心在幫忙破案阿這樣真的是不夠可是在法制裡面還需要大家的尤其國會的支持那當然那當然好謝謝"}]}}}}