{"id":150580,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150580","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf6636e6e9a1b1ab5435da83422e330f45f8ba9b0039caa7a6e3908d7ab787057b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"09:58:18 - 10:08:03","影片長度":"00:09:45","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢。\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等 6案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-10"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":585,"end_time":"2024-03-28T10:08:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T09:58:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":257,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（9時58分）請田次長。"],["主席：次長請。"],["田次長中光：洪委員早。"],["洪委員申翰：次長，我今天有幾個問題想要來跟外交部討論，其實臺灣這幾年一直在推動所謂的新南向政策，我們也很希望讓一些好的外籍人才可以留在臺灣，所以其實其他部會也推了，比方說像是移工留才久用的方案，或者是希望讓一些已經對臺灣相對熟悉的外籍勞工能夠成為我國的國民。我自己感覺這幾年在一些移工的議題上，其實慢慢地有更多一些彼此之間友善的措施跟氣氛，但我現在發現一個滿奇怪的事情。有一些外籍勞工結束了在臺灣的藍領工作回到家鄉以後，也許他結束工作回到家鄉可能還二十幾歲出頭，他想來臺灣唸書，或想要來攻讀學歷，或者是他想來臺灣學中文，把中文學好。次長，你知不知道像這樣子的人，他申不申請得到我們的簽證？"],["田次長中光：他如果證件合的話，經過我們審核，當然可以拿到簽證。"],["洪委員申翰：錯了，次長，他沒有辦法拿到我們的簽證，因為在我們外交部的規定裡面，外籍人士來台研習中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說，對於曾來台從事就業服務法第四十六條第一項第八款到第十款規定工作的人，簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作，我駐外館處得不受理以研習中文為由申請簽證。所以我們聽過好多個，他其實過去曾經在臺灣工作過，他是移工，他回到他的國家以後，然後他想要再來臺灣學中文，或者可能下一步他的生涯規劃是想要來臺灣，可是卻被這一條給擋住了。次長，你覺得這合不合理？"],["田次長中光：基本上，我不認為這個合理，我必須說這個應該不合理，但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條，是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後阻擋他們……"],["洪委員申翰：我直接跟你說，因為我們都問過了，很簡單，因為很多這些過去來臺灣可能做過藍領的工作，然後要來臺灣學中文的，我們領務局就是覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊！所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由，一竿子打翻了所有的人。這是我們問到的，它覺得這些人都來非法打工，不然如果領務局有更新的理由，也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定？這是我們請問領務局，他們跟我們說的說法，如果別的說法也可以，那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講。"],["何局長震寰：我跟委員報告，外國人來臺就學的部分，有就學的辦法嘛！研習中文……"],["洪委員申翰：我現在講研習中文啊！"],["何局長震寰：研習中文有研習中文的規定，我們是按照那些規定來審核……"],["洪委員申翰：我當然知道，但是現在問題是討論規定合不合理啊！"],["何局長震寰：你前面提到說因為他做過藍領，他就不能來，我認為那可能是個案……"],["洪委員申翰：不是，你的規定上面就寫了，你們自己的注意事項寫說，如果他來從事就業服務法第四十六條第一項第八款至第十款，這個就服法可能今天現場的不一定……就是藍領工作啦！所以我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為由申請簽證，這是你們的規定，不是我的規定啊！"],["田次長中光：委員，容許我們……"],["洪委員申翰：所以我現在問，有別的理由你們也可以講，但我得到的理由是因為你們認為這樣很多來臺學中文的，他們都會偷偷打工。"],["田次長中光：我嘗試解釋看看，因為「研習中文」是非常非常廣泛的一個定義，研習中文跟來大學念書是不一樣的……"],["洪委員申翰：當然。"],["田次長中光：所以他只說他要來研習中文，他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構、已經錄取了，如果他能夠提出……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，你說的跟這個規定是不一樣的，這個規定裡面就是他曾經來臺灣做過這幾款裡面的工作，他就不能以研習中文為由，這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思。如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他，你也可以寫在裡面，可是這個條文不是這樣寫的，這個注意事項不是這樣寫的，我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊！"],["何局長震寰：我們會去檢討這個條文的部分，但是委員有曾經發生過個案跟你……"],["洪委員申翰：當然有啊！"],["何局長震寰：OK，個案的部分，我們來處理。"],["洪委員申翰：不是，這不是個案處理的問題，我現在跟你說，你這個規定合不合理嘛！"],["何局長震寰：因為按照我們的規定裡面，並沒有發生這樣的情況。"],["洪委員申翰：不是，這是你們寫的規定，又不是我的規定，又不是別的部會的規定，這是你們的規定吧！領事局，這是不是你們的規定？外籍人士來臺研習中文申請停留簽證手續說明，是不是你們的規定？是！"],["何局長震寰：對，這是……"],["洪委員申翰：這是從你們的網站，發布單位是外交部領事事務局。"],["何局長震寰：可是不是拒絕啊！它這個是「得」，它是有一個裁量權在那邊啊！"],["洪委員申翰：但這一條的原因是什麼嘛？就有人被擋住嘛！"],["何局長震寰：它就是授予領事裁量權嘛！所以委員假設有個案的話，你可以提出個案，我們可以來看個案。"],["洪委員申翰：次長，我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來，但不應該用他過去在臺灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷，這一條條文敘述的邏輯就是這樣，因為你在臺灣做過藍領工作，所以我可以不讓你來，你如果要設定其他的審核標準，我同意，我們來討論那標準合不合理，但這條的邏輯不是這樣。"],["田次長中光：好，我跟委員保證，我們來處理這條看看。"],["洪委員申翰：一個月，好不好？"],["田次長中光：但是需要給我一個例子，我們要看他的背景，到底他為什麼會被拒，給我一個例子就好。"],["洪委員申翰：是，但是次長，我還是要跟你說……"],["田次長中光：我們來檢討。"],["洪委員申翰：我們可以從那個例子裡面來看，他是因為什麼條件不適合，但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合，我跟您討論的是這一個條文適不適合、這個條文的邏輯對不對，我現在跟你討論的是這件事情，所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題，我是要討論這個條文對不對，如果它的邏輯、它的篩選門檻不對，該改就改嘛！"],["田次長中光：好，我們來檢討。"],["洪委員申翰：這個也不是放在母法裡面，這是我們自己的規定裡面就可以處理的問題啊！所以一個月來調整，這可以嗎？"],["田次長中光：我們處理。"],["洪委員申翰：好，一個月喔！","次長，第二個，我接下來也還是要問，其實我今天幾個問題針對領務局，我沒有特別要刁難領務局。有一個小朋友他寄給我一個陳情信，這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的，這個小朋友說，當初他的媽媽帶著他嫁來臺灣，媽媽沒有國籍，所以這個小朋友是用探親停留簽證的方式進到臺灣，他進到臺灣以後，後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人，十幾年過去了，因為鄰居舉報、檢舉他疑似有外國人非法工作，所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現。因為他是失聯外國人，所以這十幾年在臺灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育，包括就醫等等，連疫苗也沒有辦法打，那這樣的狀況，接下來可能會被移民署遣返，或者是會有相關的管制入境。主席，再給我一點點時間。","我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生，次長，是吧？我們希望這樣狀況不要再發生了，對不對？"],["田次長中光：當然。"],["洪委員申翰：好，但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生，我跟次長報告，當然有一個很重要的環節，因為我們有去問過移民署，移民署在它的新住民家庭關懷訪視之中，為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境臺灣，但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯小朋友的原因。我們有去問移民署，但移民署回復給我們的狀況，確實是現在在移民署跟領務局介接的系統裡面，只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊，在他們介接資料裡面，沒有年齡、沒有簽證類別，或者是他在臺灣的聯絡人。看起來是因為這兩個單位之間介接的資料的欄位不足，所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足，變成相對像這樣外籍小朋友，他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況，不容易被辨認。","我想要請次長，是不是也可以在一個月內，跟移民署針對這個介接欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善？我們希望未來類似的案例，能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊，能夠去防範或去追蹤，而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況，十幾年後再變成陳情信來找我們，可以嗎？次長。"],["田次長中光：可以。"],["洪委員申翰：一個月？"],["田次長中光：好。"],["洪委員申翰：好，謝謝。"],["田次長中光：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪申翰委員。","外交部，這兩件事情都一個月，待會我們會載明，謝謝，請回。","接下來請陳冠廷委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","林楚茵","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","黃國昌","李坤城","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","陳培瑜","林憶君","陳永康","羅智強"],"page_start":179,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢；\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等6案","agenda_id":"1132101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"150580","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150580","tool":"pyannote","id":"150580-pyannote"},"job_id":"tS75cmep9ooGGza2","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"end\": 568.611, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 568.611, \"end\": 568.651, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 568.651, \"end\": 568.671, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 568.671, \"end\": 568.691, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 568.691, \"end\": 568.771, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 568.771, \"end\": 568.811, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 568.811, \"end\": 568.831, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 570.852, \"end\": 571.173, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 571.173, \"end\": 571.333, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 571.333, \"end\": 571.574, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 571.574, \"end\": 571.994, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 571.994, \"end\": 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575.701, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 575.701, \"end\": 575.721, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,372 --> 00:00:25,609\n其實台灣這幾年我們一直在推動所謂新南洋政策那我們也很希望讓好的一些外籍人才可以留在台灣所以其實我們也其他部會也推了比方說像是移工留才久用的方案或者是讓這個一些已經在台灣相對熟悉的這個外籍的勞工希望能夠成為我國的國民\n\n2\n00:00:27,170 --> 00:00:40,640\n我自己感覺這幾年其實在一些移工的議題上其實慢慢的其實更多了一些彼此之間友善的措施跟這個氣氛但我現在發現一個蠻奇怪的事情\n\n3\n00:00:42,121 --> 00:01:09,866\n這個有一些外籍勞工他結束了在臺灣的蘭嶺工作他回到家鄉以後但他可能也許他結束工作他回到他家鄉以後可能還20幾歲出頭他想來臺灣念書或想要來攻讀學歷或者是他想來臺灣學中文把中文學好但這個這樣你知道像這樣子的人他申不申請的到我們的簽證\n\n4\n00:01:11,523 --> 00:01:25,335\n他如果證件合的話經過我們審核當然可以拿到簽證了錯了次長這樣子他沒有辦法拿到我們簽證因為在我們外交部的規定裡面外籍人士來台沿襲中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說\n\n5\n00:01:26,856 --> 00:01:47,753\n對於這個曾來臺從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款到第10款規定工作簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作啦我簡單來說是這樣我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為申請簽證所以我們聽過好多個\n\n6\n00:01:49,434 --> 00:02:05,581\n他其實過去曾經在台灣工作過他是移工他回到他國家以後他想要再來台灣學中文或者是想要來台灣可能下一步他的生涯規劃可是卻被這一條給擋住了次長你覺得這合不合理\n\n7\n00:02:06,918 --> 00:02:32,150\n基本上我不認為這個合理我必須說這個應該不合理但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後這樣我跟你講我直接跟你說因為我們都問過了很簡單他其實就覺得因為很多這些來台灣過去可能在做過藍領的工作然後要來台灣學中文的我們的領務局覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊\n\n8\n00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:55,308\n所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由一竿子打翻了所有的人可是我們在問說這是我們問到的就是說他覺得這些人很多都來非法打工所以不然如果領務局有更新的理由也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定這是我們跟領務局請問他們跟我們說的說法\n\n9\n00:02:57,059 --> 00:03:19,645\n如果有別的說法也可以那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講我跟委員報告啊這個外國人來臺就學的部份有就學的辦法嗎我現在講延習中文啊延習中文有延習中文的規定我們是按照那些規定來審核啊我當然知道但現在問題是考慮規定合不合理啊\n\n10\n00:03:20,425 --> 00:03:40,672\n你前面提到說因為他做過攬領他就不能來我認為那可能是個案不是,你的規定上面就寫了這個你們自己的注意事項寫說如果他來從事救援服務法第46條第1項第8款至第10款這個救援服務法可能現場的不一定下就是攬領工作啦\n\n11\n00:03:41,994 --> 00:03:50,626\n所以我駐外管得不受理以沿襲中文為由的申請簽證嗎這是你們的規定不是我的規定啊沿襲中文這個我覺得\n\n12\n00:03:53,401 --> 00:03:56,483\n我嘗試解釋看看因為研習中文這幾個是非常非常廣泛的一個定義\n\n13\n00:04:15,518 --> 00:04:31,099\n我研習中文跟我來大學念書是不一樣的當然所以他只要說我來研習中文他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構已經錄取了他有沒有如果他能夠提出你這個跟我們的規定是不一樣的\n\n14\n00:04:32,239 --> 00:04:53,472\n你這個規定裡面就是他曾經來台灣做過這幾款裡面的工作他就不能以延期中文為用這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思不是你如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他你也可以寫在裡面可是這個條文不是這樣寫的啊這個注意事項不是這樣寫的啊我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊\n\n15\n00:04:55,379 --> 00:04:59,623\n這是你們寫的規定又不是我的規定又不是別的部會的規定這是你們的規定吧\n\n16\n00:05:21,721 --> 00:05:28,165\n李秘書這是不是你們的規定外籍人士來台延期中文申請停留簽證手續說明是不是你們的規定是這是從你們的網站發布單位是外交部領事事務局可是不是拒絕阿他這個是得阿他是有一個裁量權在那邊阿但這一條的原因是什麼嘛就有人被擋住嘛\n\n17\n00:05:44,514 --> 00:05:50,595\n市長,我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來但不應該用他過去在台灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷這一條條文的敘述的邏輯就是這樣因為你做過藍領工作在台灣做藍領工作所以我可以不讓你來\n\n18\n00:06:11,516 --> 00:06:17,227\n你如果要設定其他的審核標準我同意我們來討論那標準合不合理但這條的邏輯不是這樣啊\n\n19\n00:06:19,571 --> 00:06:42,997\n好,這樣子我跟委員保證我們來處理這條看看但是我需要給我一個例子我們要看他的背景到底他為什麼會被拒給我一個例子就好是,但是市長我這邊還是要跟你說我們來檢討我們可以從那個例子裡面適不適合來判他是因為什麼條件不適合但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合我跟你討論的是這個條文適不適合這個條文的邏輯對不對\n\n20\n00:06:47,518 --> 00:07:12,218\n我現在跟你討論的是這件事情所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題我是要討論這個條文對不對如果不對他的邏輯他的篩選的門檻不對該改就改嘛好我們來檢討這個也不是放在母法裡面啊這是我們自己的規定裡面來就可以處理的問題啊所以一個月來調整這可以嗎我們處理好一個月齁好這樣第二個我接下來也還是要問喔其實今天幾個問題針對領務局齁我沒有特別這個要刁難領務局\n\n21\n00:07:17,903 --> 00:07:32,678\n有一個小朋友他寄給我的一個陳情信這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的他說這個小朋友說當初他的媽媽帶孩子他嫁來台灣媽媽沒有國籍所以這個小朋友是用叛親停留簽證的方式進到台灣\n\n22\n00:07:34,414 --> 00:08:02,504\n他進到台灣以後後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人十幾年過去了因為鄰居舉報說檢舉他疑似有在這個外國人非法工作所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現因為他是失聯外國人所以這十幾年在台灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育包括就醫等等等連疫苗也沒有辦法打那這樣的狀況接下來他可能會被移民署遣返或者是會有相關的管制入境\n\n23\n00:08:04,307 --> 00:08:12,722\n主席我想再一點點時間我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生市長是吧我們希望這樣的狀況不要再發生對不對\n\n24\n00:08:14,213 --> 00:08:41,252\n當然好但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生我跟次長報告但有一個很重要的環節因為我們也去問過移民署移民署在他的這個新住民的及家庭關懷跟訪視之中為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境台灣但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯的小朋友的原因我們也去問移民署但移民署回覆給我們一個狀況確實是現在在移民署跟領務局間接的系統裡面\n\n25\n00:08:42,873 --> 00:09:03,995\n只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊在他們借接的資料裡面沒有年齡沒有簽證類別或者是他其實在台灣的聯絡人所以看起來是因為這兩個單位之間借接的資料的欄位不足所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足\n\n26\n00:09:04,395 --> 00:09:28,831\n所以變成相對像這樣子外籍小朋友他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況這樣不容易被辨認我想要請次長我們也是會在一個月內可以跟移民署這邊針對這個藉階欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善我們希望未來能夠把類似的案例能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊能夠去防範或去追蹤而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況\n\n27\n00:09:30,852 --> 00:09:35,721\n十幾年後再變成陳秦杏來找我們﹖可以嗎﹖可以﹖一個月﹖好﹖好﹖謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4372\t25609\t其實台灣這幾年我們一直在推動所謂新南洋政策那我們也很希望讓好的一些外籍人才可以留在台灣所以其實我們也其他部會也推了比方說像是移工留才久用的方案或者是讓這個一些已經在台灣相對熟悉的這個外籍的勞工希望能夠成為我國的國民\n27170\t40640\t我自己感覺這幾年其實在一些移工的議題上其實慢慢的其實更多了一些彼此之間友善的措施跟這個氣氛但我現在發現一個蠻奇怪的事情\n42121\t69866\t這個有一些外籍勞工他結束了在臺灣的蘭嶺工作他回到家鄉以後但他可能也許他結束工作他回到他家鄉以後可能還20幾歲出頭他想來臺灣念書或想要來攻讀學歷或者是他想來臺灣學中文把中文學好但這個這樣你知道像這樣子的人他申不申請的到我們的簽證\n71523\t85335\t他如果證件合的話經過我們審核當然可以拿到簽證了錯了 次長這樣子他沒有辦法拿到我們簽證因為在我們外交部的規定裡面外籍人士來台沿襲中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說\n86856\t107753\t對於這個曾來臺從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款到第10款規定工作簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作啦我簡單來說是這樣我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為申請簽證所以我們聽過好多個\n109434\t125581\t他其實過去曾經在台灣工作過他是移工他回到他國家以後他想要再來台灣學中文或者是想要來台灣可能下一步他的生涯規劃可是卻被這一條給擋住了次長你覺得這合不合理\n126918\t152150\t基本上我不認為這個合理我必須說這個應該不合理但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後這樣我跟你講我直接跟你說因為我們都問過了很簡單他其實就覺得因為很多這些來台灣過去可能在做過藍領的工作然後要來台灣學中文的我們的領務局覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊\n153740\t175308\t所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由一竿子打翻了所有的人可是我們在問說這是我們問到的就是說他覺得這些人很多都來非法打工所以不然如果領務局有更新的理由也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定這是我們跟領務局請問他們跟我們說的說法\n177059\t199645\t如果有別的說法也可以 那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講我跟委員報告啊 這個外國人來臺就學的部份有就學的辦法嗎我現在講延習中文啊延習中文有延習中文的規定 我們是按照那些規定來審核啊我當然知道 但現在問題是考慮規定合不合理啊\n200425\t220672\t你前面提到說因為他做過攬領他就不能來我認為那可能是個案不是,你的規定上面就寫了這個你們自己的注意事項寫說如果他來從事救援服務法第46條第1項第8款至第10款這個救援服務法可能現場的不一定下就是攬領工作啦\n221994\t230626\t所以我駐外管得不受理以沿襲中文為由的申請簽證嗎這是你們的規定不是我的規定啊沿襲中文這個我覺得\n233401\t236483\t我嘗試解釋看看因為研習中文這幾個是非常非常廣泛的一個定義\n255518\t271099\t我研習中文跟我來大學念書是不一樣的當然所以他只要說我來研習中文他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構已經錄取了他有沒有如果他能夠提出你這個跟我們的規定是不一樣的\n272239\t293472\t你這個規定裡面就是他曾經來台灣做過這幾款裡面的工作他就不能以延期中文為用這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思不是你如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他你也可以寫在裡面可是這個條文不是這樣寫的啊這個注意事項不是這樣寫的啊我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊\n295379\t299623\t這是你們寫的規定又不是我的規定又不是別的部會的規定這是你們的規定吧\n321721\t328165\t李秘書這是不是你們的規定外籍人士來台延期中文申請停留簽證手續說明 是不是你們的規定是這是從你們的網站發布單位是外交部領事事務局可是不是拒絕阿他這個是得阿他是有一個裁量權在那邊阿但這一條的原因是什麼嘛就有人被擋住嘛\n344514\t350595\t市長,我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來但不應該用他過去在台灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷這一條條文的敘述的邏輯就是這樣因為你做過藍領工作在台灣做藍領工作所以我可以不讓你來\n371516\t377227\t你如果要設定其他的審核標準我同意我們來討論那標準合不合理但這條的邏輯不是這樣啊\n379571\t402997\t好,這樣子我跟委員保證我們來處理這條看看但是我需要給我一個例子我們要看他的背景到底他為什麼會被拒給我一個例子就好是,但是市長我這邊還是要跟你說我們來檢討我們可以從那個例子裡面適不適合來判他是因為什麼條件不適合但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合我跟你討論的是這個條文適不適合這個條文的邏輯對不對\n407518\t432218\t我現在跟你討論的是這件事情所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題我是要討論這個條文對不對如果不對他的邏輯他的篩選的門檻不對該改就改嘛好 我們來檢討這個也不是放在母法裡面啊這是我們自己的規定裡面來就可以處理的問題啊所以一個月來調整這可以嗎我們處理好 一個月齁好這樣第二個我接下來也還是要問喔其實今天幾個問題針對領務局齁我沒有特別這個要刁難領務局\n437903\t452678\t有一個小朋友他寄給我的一個陳情信這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的他說這個小朋友說當初他的媽媽帶孩子他嫁來台灣媽媽沒有國籍所以這個小朋友是用叛親停留簽證的方式進到台灣\n454414\t482504\t他進到台灣以後後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人十幾年過去了因為鄰居舉報說檢舉他疑似有在這個外國人非法工作所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現因為他是失聯外國人所以這十幾年在台灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育包括就醫等等等連疫苗也沒有辦法打那這樣的狀況接下來他可能會被移民署遣返或者是會有相關的管制入境\n484307\t492722\t主席我想再一點點時間我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生市長是吧我們希望這樣的狀況不要再發生對不對\n494213\t521252\t當然好但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生我跟次長報告但有一個很重要的環節因為我們也去問過移民署移民署在他的這個新住民的及家庭關懷跟訪視之中為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境台灣但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯的小朋友的原因我們也去問移民署但移民署回覆給我們一個狀況確實是現在在移民署跟領務局間接的系統裡面\n522873\t543995\t只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊在他們借接的資料裡面沒有年齡沒有簽證類別或者是他其實在台灣的聯絡人所以看起來是因為這兩個單位之間借接的資料的欄位不足所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足\n544395\t568831\t所以變成相對像這樣子外籍小朋友他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況這樣不容易被辨認我想要請次長我們也是會在一個月內可以跟移民署這邊針對這個藉階欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善我們希望未來能夠把類似的案例能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊能夠去防範或去追蹤而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況\n570852\t575721\t十幾年後再變成陳秦杏來找我們﹖可以嗎﹖可以﹖一個月﹖好﹖好﹖謝謝\n","txt":"其實台灣這幾年我們一直在推動所謂新南洋政策那我們也很希望讓好的一些外籍人才可以留在台灣所以其實我們也其他部會也推了比方說像是移工留才久用的方案或者是讓這個一些已經在台灣相對熟悉的這個外籍的勞工希望能夠成為我國的國民\n我自己感覺這幾年其實在一些移工的議題上其實慢慢的其實更多了一些彼此之間友善的措施跟這個氣氛但我現在發現一個蠻奇怪的事情\n這個有一些外籍勞工他結束了在臺灣的蘭嶺工作他回到家鄉以後但他可能也許他結束工作他回到他家鄉以後可能還20幾歲出頭他想來臺灣念書或想要來攻讀學歷或者是他想來臺灣學中文把中文學好但這個這樣你知道像這樣子的人他申不申請的到我們的簽證\n他如果證件合的話經過我們審核當然可以拿到簽證了錯了 次長這樣子他沒有辦法拿到我們簽證因為在我們外交部的規定裡面外籍人士來台沿襲中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說\n對於這個曾來臺從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款到第10款規定工作簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作啦我簡單來說是這樣我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為申請簽證所以我們聽過好多個\n他其實過去曾經在台灣工作過他是移工他回到他國家以後他想要再來台灣學中文或者是想要來台灣可能下一步他的生涯規劃可是卻被這一條給擋住了次長你覺得這合不合理\n基本上我不認為這個合理我必須說這個應該不合理但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後這樣我跟你講我直接跟你說因為我們都問過了很簡單他其實就覺得因為很多這些來台灣過去可能在做過藍領的工作然後要來台灣學中文的我們的領務局覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊\n所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由一竿子打翻了所有的人可是我們在問說這是我們問到的就是說他覺得這些人很多都來非法打工所以不然如果領務局有更新的理由也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定這是我們跟領務局請問他們跟我們說的說法\n如果有別的說法也可以 那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講我跟委員報告啊 這個外國人來臺就學的部份有就學的辦法嗎我現在講延習中文啊延習中文有延習中文的規定 我們是按照那些規定來審核啊我當然知道 但現在問題是考慮規定合不合理啊\n你前面提到說因為他做過攬領他就不能來我認為那可能是個案不是,你的規定上面就寫了這個你們自己的注意事項寫說如果他來從事救援服務法第46條第1項第8款至第10款這個救援服務法可能現場的不一定下就是攬領工作啦\n所以我駐外管得不受理以沿襲中文為由的申請簽證嗎這是你們的規定不是我的規定啊沿襲中文這個我覺得\n我嘗試解釋看看因為研習中文這幾個是非常非常廣泛的一個定義\n我研習中文跟我來大學念書是不一樣的當然所以他只要說我來研習中文他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構已經錄取了他有沒有如果他能夠提出你這個跟我們的規定是不一樣的\n你這個規定裡面就是他曾經來台灣做過這幾款裡面的工作他就不能以延期中文為用這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思不是你如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他你也可以寫在裡面可是這個條文不是這樣寫的啊這個注意事項不是這樣寫的啊我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊\n這是你們寫的規定又不是我的規定又不是別的部會的規定這是你們的規定吧\n李秘書這是不是你們的規定外籍人士來台延期中文申請停留簽證手續說明 是不是你們的規定是這是從你們的網站發布單位是外交部領事事務局可是不是拒絕阿他這個是得阿他是有一個裁量權在那邊阿但這一條的原因是什麼嘛就有人被擋住嘛\n市長,我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來但不應該用他過去在台灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷這一條條文的敘述的邏輯就是這樣因為你做過藍領工作在台灣做藍領工作所以我可以不讓你來\n你如果要設定其他的審核標準我同意我們來討論那標準合不合理但這條的邏輯不是這樣啊\n好,這樣子我跟委員保證我們來處理這條看看但是我需要給我一個例子我們要看他的背景到底他為什麼會被拒給我一個例子就好是,但是市長我這邊還是要跟你說我們來檢討我們可以從那個例子裡面適不適合來判他是因為什麼條件不適合但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合我跟你討論的是這個條文適不適合這個條文的邏輯對不對\n我現在跟你討論的是這件事情所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題我是要討論這個條文對不對如果不對他的邏輯他的篩選的門檻不對該改就改嘛好 我們來檢討這個也不是放在母法裡面啊這是我們自己的規定裡面來就可以處理的問題啊所以一個月來調整這可以嗎我們處理好 一個月齁好這樣第二個我接下來也還是要問喔其實今天幾個問題針對領務局齁我沒有特別這個要刁難領務局\n有一個小朋友他寄給我的一個陳情信這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的他說這個小朋友說當初他的媽媽帶孩子他嫁來台灣媽媽沒有國籍所以這個小朋友是用叛親停留簽證的方式進到台灣\n他進到台灣以後後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人十幾年過去了因為鄰居舉報說檢舉他疑似有在這個外國人非法工作所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現因為他是失聯外國人所以這十幾年在台灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育包括就醫等等等連疫苗也沒有辦法打那這樣的狀況接下來他可能會被移民署遣返或者是會有相關的管制入境\n主席我想再一點點時間我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生市長是吧我們希望這樣的狀況不要再發生對不對\n當然好但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生我跟次長報告但有一個很重要的環節因為我們也去問過移民署移民署在他的這個新住民的及家庭關懷跟訪視之中為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境台灣但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯的小朋友的原因我們也去問移民署但移民署回覆給我們一個狀況確實是現在在移民署跟領務局間接的系統裡面\n只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊在他們借接的資料裡面沒有年齡沒有簽證類別或者是他其實在台灣的聯絡人所以看起來是因為這兩個單位之間借接的資料的欄位不足所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足\n所以變成相對像這樣子外籍小朋友他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況這樣不容易被辨認我想要請次長我們也是會在一個月內可以跟移民署這邊針對這個藉階欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善我們希望未來能夠把類似的案例能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊能夠去防範或去追蹤而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況\n十幾年後再變成陳秦杏來找我們﹖可以嗎﹖可以﹖一個月﹖好﹖好﹖謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.372 --> 00:25.609\n其實台灣這幾年我們一直在推動所謂新南洋政策那我們也很希望讓好的一些外籍人才可以留在台灣所以其實我們也其他部會也推了比方說像是移工留才久用的方案或者是讓這個一些已經在台灣相對熟悉的這個外籍的勞工希望能夠成為我國的國民\n\n00:27.170 --> 00:40.640\n我自己感覺這幾年其實在一些移工的議題上其實慢慢的其實更多了一些彼此之間友善的措施跟這個氣氛但我現在發現一個蠻奇怪的事情\n\n00:42.121 --> 01:09.866\n這個有一些外籍勞工他結束了在臺灣的蘭嶺工作他回到家鄉以後但他可能也許他結束工作他回到他家鄉以後可能還20幾歲出頭他想來臺灣念書或想要來攻讀學歷或者是他想來臺灣學中文把中文學好但這個這樣你知道像這樣子的人他申不申請的到我們的簽證\n\n01:11.523 --> 01:25.335\n他如果證件合的話經過我們審核當然可以拿到簽證了錯了次長這樣子他沒有辦法拿到我們簽證因為在我們外交部的規定裡面外籍人士來台沿襲中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說\n\n01:26.856 --> 01:47.753\n對於這個曾來臺從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款到第10款規定工作簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作啦我簡單來說是這樣我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為申請簽證所以我們聽過好多個\n\n01:49.434 --> 02:05.581\n他其實過去曾經在台灣工作過他是移工他回到他國家以後他想要再來台灣學中文或者是想要來台灣可能下一步他的生涯規劃可是卻被這一條給擋住了次長你覺得這合不合理\n\n02:06.918 --> 02:32.150\n基本上我不認為這個合理我必須說這個應該不合理但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後這樣我跟你講我直接跟你說因為我們都問過了很簡單他其實就覺得因為很多這些來台灣過去可能在做過藍領的工作然後要來台灣學中文的我們的領務局覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊\n\n02:33.740 --> 02:55.308\n所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由一竿子打翻了所有的人可是我們在問說這是我們問到的就是說他覺得這些人很多都來非法打工所以不然如果領務局有更新的理由也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定這是我們跟領務局請問他們跟我們說的說法\n\n02:57.059 --> 03:19.645\n如果有別的說法也可以那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講我跟委員報告啊這個外國人來臺就學的部份有就學的辦法嗎我現在講延習中文啊延習中文有延習中文的規定我們是按照那些規定來審核啊我當然知道但現在問題是考慮規定合不合理啊\n\n03:20.425 --> 03:40.672\n你前面提到說因為他做過攬領他就不能來我認為那可能是個案不是,你的規定上面就寫了這個你們自己的注意事項寫說如果他來從事救援服務法第46條第1項第8款至第10款這個救援服務法可能現場的不一定下就是攬領工作啦\n\n03:41.994 --> 03:50.626\n所以我駐外管得不受理以沿襲中文為由的申請簽證嗎這是你們的規定不是我的規定啊沿襲中文這個我覺得\n\n03:53.401 --> 03:56.483\n我嘗試解釋看看因為研習中文這幾個是非常非常廣泛的一個定義\n\n04:15.518 --> 04:31.099\n我研習中文跟我來大學念書是不一樣的當然所以他只要說我來研習中文他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構已經錄取了他有沒有如果他能夠提出你這個跟我們的規定是不一樣的\n\n04:32.239 --> 04:53.472\n你這個規定裡面就是他曾經來台灣做過這幾款裡面的工作他就不能以延期中文為用這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思不是你如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他你也可以寫在裡面可是這個條文不是這樣寫的啊這個注意事項不是這樣寫的啊我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊\n\n04:55.379 --> 04:59.623\n這是你們寫的規定又不是我的規定又不是別的部會的規定這是你們的規定吧\n\n05:21.721 --> 05:28.165\n李秘書這是不是你們的規定外籍人士來台延期中文申請停留簽證手續說明是不是你們的規定是這是從你們的網站發布單位是外交部領事事務局可是不是拒絕阿他這個是得阿他是有一個裁量權在那邊阿但這一條的原因是什麼嘛就有人被擋住嘛\n\n05:44.514 --> 05:50.595\n市長,我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來但不應該用他過去在台灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷這一條條文的敘述的邏輯就是這樣因為你做過藍領工作在台灣做藍領工作所以我可以不讓你來\n\n06:11.516 --> 06:17.227\n你如果要設定其他的審核標準我同意我們來討論那標準合不合理但這條的邏輯不是這樣啊\n\n06:19.571 --> 06:42.997\n好,這樣子我跟委員保證我們來處理這條看看但是我需要給我一個例子我們要看他的背景到底他為什麼會被拒給我一個例子就好是,但是市長我這邊還是要跟你說我們來檢討我們可以從那個例子裡面適不適合來判他是因為什麼條件不適合但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合我跟你討論的是這個條文適不適合這個條文的邏輯對不對\n\n06:47.518 --> 07:12.218\n我現在跟你討論的是這件事情所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題我是要討論這個條文對不對如果不對他的邏輯他的篩選的門檻不對該改就改嘛好我們來檢討這個也不是放在母法裡面啊這是我們自己的規定裡面來就可以處理的問題啊所以一個月來調整這可以嗎我們處理好一個月齁好這樣第二個我接下來也還是要問喔其實今天幾個問題針對領務局齁我沒有特別這個要刁難領務局\n\n07:17.903 --> 07:32.678\n有一個小朋友他寄給我的一個陳情信這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的他說這個小朋友說當初他的媽媽帶孩子他嫁來台灣媽媽沒有國籍所以這個小朋友是用叛親停留簽證的方式進到台灣\n\n07:34.414 --> 08:02.504\n他進到台灣以後後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人十幾年過去了因為鄰居舉報說檢舉他疑似有在這個外國人非法工作所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現因為他是失聯外國人所以這十幾年在台灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育包括就醫等等等連疫苗也沒有辦法打那這樣的狀況接下來他可能會被移民署遣返或者是會有相關的管制入境\n\n08:04.307 --> 08:12.722\n主席我想再一點點時間我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生市長是吧我們希望這樣的狀況不要再發生對不對\n\n08:14.213 --> 08:41.252\n當然好但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生我跟次長報告但有一個很重要的環節因為我們也去問過移民署移民署在他的這個新住民的及家庭關懷跟訪視之中為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境台灣但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯的小朋友的原因我們也去問移民署但移民署回覆給我們一個狀況確實是現在在移民署跟領務局間接的系統裡面\n\n08:42.873 --> 09:03.995\n只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊在他們借接的資料裡面沒有年齡沒有簽證類別或者是他其實在台灣的聯絡人所以看起來是因為這兩個單位之間借接的資料的欄位不足所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足\n\n09:04.395 --> 09:28.831\n所以變成相對像這樣子外籍小朋友他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況這樣不容易被辨認我想要請次長我們也是會在一個月內可以跟移民署這邊針對這個藉階欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善我們希望未來能夠把類似的案例能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊能夠去防範或去追蹤而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況\n\n09:30.852 --> 09:35.721\n十幾年後再變成陳秦杏來找我們﹖可以嗎﹖可以﹖一個月﹖好﹖好﹖謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.372,"end":25.609,"text":"其實台灣這幾年我們一直在推動所謂新南洋政策那我們也很希望讓好的一些外籍人才可以留在台灣所以其實我們也其他部會也推了比方說像是移工留才久用的方案或者是讓這個一些已經在台灣相對熟悉的這個外籍的勞工希望能夠成為我國的國民"},{"start":27.17,"end":40.64,"text":"我自己感覺這幾年其實在一些移工的議題上其實慢慢的其實更多了一些彼此之間友善的措施跟這個氣氛但我現在發現一個蠻奇怪的事情"},{"start":42.121,"end":69.866,"text":"這個有一些外籍勞工他結束了在臺灣的蘭嶺工作他回到家鄉以後但他可能也許他結束工作他回到他家鄉以後可能還20幾歲出頭他想來臺灣念書或想要來攻讀學歷或者是他想來臺灣學中文把中文學好但這個這樣你知道像這樣子的人他申不申請的到我們的簽證"},{"start":71.523,"end":85.335,"text":"他如果證件合的話經過我們審核當然可以拿到簽證了錯了 次長這樣子他沒有辦法拿到我們簽證因為在我們外交部的規定裡面外籍人士來台沿襲中文申請停留簽證手續裡面就說"},{"start":86.856,"end":107.753,"text":"對於這個曾來臺從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款到第10款規定工作簡單來說就是在臺灣做藍領的工作啦我簡單來說是這樣我駐外館得不受理以研習中文為申請簽證所以我們聽過好多個"},{"start":109.434,"end":125.581,"text":"他其實過去曾經在台灣工作過他是移工他回到他國家以後他想要再來台灣學中文或者是想要來台灣可能下一步他的生涯規劃可是卻被這一條給擋住了次長你覺得這合不合理"},{"start":126.918,"end":152.15,"text":"基本上我不認為這個合理我必須說這個應該不合理但是我想請領事事務局說明為什麼有這一條是不是以前有什麼案子發生以後這樣我跟你講我直接跟你說因為我們都問過了很簡單他其實就覺得因為很多這些來台灣過去可能在做過藍領的工作然後要來台灣學中文的我們的領務局覺得他們都會偷偷去打工啊"},{"start":153.74,"end":175.308,"text":"所以用一個想要防止非法就業的理由一竿子打翻了所有的人可是我們在問說這是我們問到的就是說他覺得這些人很多都來非法打工所以不然如果領務局有更新的理由也可以跟我們說為什麼會有這樣的規定這是我們跟領務局請問他們跟我們說的說法"},{"start":177.059,"end":199.645,"text":"如果有別的說法也可以 那我們在國會殿堂拿出來講我跟委員報告啊 這個外國人來臺就學的部份有就學的辦法嗎我現在講延習中文啊延習中文有延習中文的規定 我們是按照那些規定來審核啊我當然知道 但現在問題是考慮規定合不合理啊"},{"start":200.425,"end":220.672,"text":"你前面提到說因為他做過攬領他就不能來我認為那可能是個案不是,你的規定上面就寫了這個你們自己的注意事項寫說如果他來從事救援服務法第46條第1項第8款至第10款這個救援服務法可能現場的不一定下就是攬領工作啦"},{"start":221.994,"end":230.626,"text":"所以我駐外管得不受理以沿襲中文為由的申請簽證嗎這是你們的規定不是我的規定啊沿襲中文這個我覺得"},{"start":233.401,"end":236.483,"text":"我嘗試解釋看看因為研習中文這幾個是非常非常廣泛的一個定義"},{"start":255.518,"end":271.099,"text":"我研習中文跟我來大學念書是不一樣的當然所以他只要說我來研習中文他提不出一個證據說他是哪一個機構已經錄取了他有沒有如果他能夠提出你這個跟我們的規定是不一樣的"},{"start":272.239,"end":293.472,"text":"你這個規定裡面就是他曾經來台灣做過這幾款裡面的工作他就不能以延期中文為用這個裡面的條文寫的就是這個意思不是你如果你說假設他沒有出具是誰來錄取他你也可以寫在裡面可是這個條文不是這樣寫的啊這個注意事項不是這樣寫的啊我現在是拿你們的注意事項來講啊"},{"start":295.379,"end":299.623,"text":"這是你們寫的規定又不是我的規定又不是別的部會的規定這是你們的規定吧"},{"start":321.721,"end":328.165,"text":"李秘書這是不是你們的規定外籍人士來台延期中文申請停留簽證手續說明 是不是你們的規定是這是從你們的網站發布單位是外交部領事事務局可是不是拒絕阿他這個是得阿他是有一個裁量權在那邊阿但這一條的原因是什麼嘛就有人被擋住嘛"},{"start":344.514,"end":350.595,"text":"市長,我覺得我們可以來判斷他適不適合來但不應該用他過去在台灣是不是做過藍領工作來判斷這一條條文的敘述的邏輯就是這樣因為你做過藍領工作在台灣做藍領工作所以我可以不讓你來"},{"start":371.516,"end":377.227,"text":"你如果要設定其他的審核標準我同意我們來討論那標準合不合理但這條的邏輯不是這樣啊"},{"start":379.571,"end":402.997,"text":"好,這樣子我跟委員保證我們來處理這條看看但是我需要給我一個例子我們要看他的背景到底他為什麼會被拒給我一個例子就好是,但是市長我這邊還是要跟你說我們來檢討我們可以從那個例子裡面適不適合來判他是因為什麼條件不適合但我今天跟你討論的不是那個例子適不適合我跟你討論的是這個條文適不適合這個條文的邏輯對不對"},{"start":407.518,"end":432.218,"text":"我現在跟你討論的是這件事情所以我現在不是要討論單一個案的問題我是要討論這個條文對不對如果不對他的邏輯他的篩選的門檻不對該改就改嘛好 我們來檢討這個也不是放在母法裡面啊這是我們自己的規定裡面來就可以處理的問題啊所以一個月來調整這可以嗎我們處理好 一個月齁好這樣第二個我接下來也還是要問喔其實今天幾個問題針對領務局齁我沒有特別這個要刁難領務局"},{"start":437.903,"end":452.678,"text":"有一個小朋友他寄給我的一個陳情信這個陳情信上面是這樣寫的他說這個小朋友說當初他的媽媽帶孩子他嫁來台灣媽媽沒有國籍所以這個小朋友是用叛親停留簽證的方式進到台灣"},{"start":454.414,"end":482.504,"text":"他進到台灣以後後來就變成移民署的失聯外國人十幾年過去了因為鄰居舉報說檢舉他疑似有在這個外國人非法工作所以這個小朋友才被移民署發現因為他是失聯外國人所以這十幾年在台灣都沒有辦法受正常的教育包括就醫等等等連疫苗也沒有辦法打那這樣的狀況接下來他可能會被移民署遣返或者是會有相關的管制入境"},{"start":484.307,"end":492.722,"text":"主席我想再一點點時間我們當然都希望這樣的事情不要再發生市長是吧我們希望這樣的狀況不要再發生對不對"},{"start":494.213,"end":521.252,"text":"當然好但是現在為什麼會有這個狀況發生我跟次長報告但有一個很重要的環節因為我們也去問過移民署移民署在他的這個新住民的及家庭關懷跟訪視之中為什麼明明知道這個外籍的配偶帶有未成年的兒童入境台灣但卻沒有去詢問這位失聯的小朋友的原因我們也去問移民署但移民署回覆給我們一個狀況確實是現在在移民署跟領務局間接的系統裡面"},{"start":522.873,"end":543.995,"text":"只有名字、護照號碼、國別跟簽證期限這些資訊在他們借接的資料裡面沒有年齡沒有簽證類別或者是他其實在台灣的聯絡人所以看起來是因為這兩個單位之間借接的資料的欄位不足所以導致資訊在傳遞的時候也會有所不足"},{"start":544.395,"end":568.831,"text":"所以變成相對像這樣子外籍小朋友他可能是一個比較高風險的狀況這樣不容易被辨認我想要請次長我們也是會在一個月內可以跟移民署這邊針對這個藉階欄位的部分來做一個相對應的調整或改善我們希望未來能夠把類似的案例能夠在更開始的時候就掌握更多的資訊能夠去防範或去追蹤而不會變成我們現在看到這些不樂見的狀況"},{"start":570.852,"end":575.721,"text":"十幾年後再變成陳秦杏來找我們﹖可以嗎﹖可以﹖一個月﹖好﹖好﹖謝謝"}]}}}}