{"id":150582,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150582","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdfd0c3d9e205feffba3836925fc87402eef8ba9b0039caa7a6c18d727e6bf2bdff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:04:33 - 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28氣候峰會之後有22國特別站出來要倡議，但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升3倍嗎？您怎麼看這一題？"],["陳主任委員東陽：跟委員報告，不同年代的大環境有不同的趨勢，在2011福島發生核災的時候，其實全球大部分是走向非核，現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷，即便在現在這個世界的情況，還是有兩邊，德國其實是非核家園，他幾乎是phase out，而法國……"],["郭委員昱晴：德國官方其實已經駁斥了「核能三倍」的倡議。"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以他已經駁斥了，我們大家都知道德國其實對很多事情是跑在很前面的，他們已經說這不是所謂最便宜的核能，也不是最方便或安全的。"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["郭委員昱晴：他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了。"],["陳主任委員東陽：其實這個就是國家的能源政策啦！是一個選擇。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我想就核安的部分，我們再多做努力，尤其是剛剛我講到的第一題──乾式貯存這個部分，我們再跟地方好好的溝通，希望能夠有一個安全的環境。"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員。主委請回。","現在正好有新北市徐匯中學的師生跟美國邁阿密Belen中學的學生一起來本委員會參訪，由柯志恩委員帶領，我們掌聲鼓勵一下。我們會議繼續，他們就在旁邊旁聽。","繼續請吳沛憶委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150582","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150582","tool":"pyannote","id":"150582-pyannote"},"job_id":"3pXkqo6vBh0xOcSg","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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531.257, \"end\": 531.778, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 531.778, \"end\": 532.138, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 532.138, \"end\": 532.318, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 532.318, \"end\": 532.558, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 532.558, \"end\": 533.019, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 533.019, \"end\": 533.179, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 533.179, \"end\": 533.699, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 533.699, \"end\": 533.879, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.879, \"end\": 534.019, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 534.019, \"end\": 534.179, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 534.179, \"end\": 534.44, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 534.44, \"end\": 534.68, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 534.68, \"end\": 535.22, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 535.22, \"end\": 535.6, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 535.6, \"end\": 535.62, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 538.143, \"end\": 538.323, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 538.323, \"end\": 538.383, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 538.383, \"end\": 538.423, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 538.423, \"end\": 538.443, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,625 --> 00:00:13,064\n主席好有請陳主委好有請主委\n\n2\n00:00:17,476 --> 00:00:40,817\n郭委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定\n\n3\n00:00:43,772 --> 00:00:44,793\n現在目前卡關卡在哪裡?是地方政府嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:13,048 --> 00:01:38,584\n現在核一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分這個部分其實是卡關然後如果它通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以它有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以熱測試\n\n5\n00:01:41,085 --> 00:01:49,914\n那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決\n\n6\n00:01:52,525 --> 00:02:10,615\n將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢\n\n7\n00:02:11,539 --> 00:02:37,655\n市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標\n\n8\n00:02:38,516 --> 00:02:38,556\n最終處置場\n\n9\n00:02:56,471 --> 00:03:20,948\n其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實也有委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的正確是正確的嘛好現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分對不對好\n\n10\n00:03:22,349 --> 00:03:42,906\n當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備\n\n11\n00:03:52,154 --> 00:04:19,361\n這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方\n\n12\n00:04:20,151 --> 00:04:40,496\n但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況\n\n13\n00:04:42,296 --> 00:05:08,397\n是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎即使我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起\n\n14\n00:05:09,921 --> 00:05:36,911\n對,我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明\n\n15\n00:05:38,271 --> 00:06:00,242\n好那接下來我們來看一下就是核電真的便宜嗎核能的成本其實我們其實有很多的部分是成本的部分沒有把它算進去當然其實我們可以從所有的發電的項目看到不管燃油也好或者是火力也好風力也好或者是太陽能也好當然核能發電這邊是112年1到4月統計出來的是1.65其實當然看起來這數字其實是\n\n16\n00:06:08,186 --> 00:06:18,414\n大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆\n\n17\n00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:25,860\n主席主席\n\n18\n00:06:43,014 --> 00:06:57,044\n同意完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算\n\n19\n00:07:05,612 --> 00:07:05,832\n可以這樣說\n\n20\n00:07:27,816 --> 00:07:28,617\n核能是全球趨勢嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:49,232 --> 00:07:59,172\n特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎?您怎麼看這一題?\n\n22\n00:08:01,686 --> 00:08:20,517\n我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向非核的部分現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷即便在現在這個世界的情況\n\n23\n00:08:26,901 --> 00:08:55,620\n還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是faceout因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇\n\n24\n00:08:58,143 --> 00:08:58,443\n謝謝主委謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9625\t13064\t主席好 有請陳主委好 有請主委\n17476\t40817\t郭委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定\n43772\t44793\t現在目前卡關卡在哪裡?是地方政府嗎?\n73048\t98584\t現在核一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分這個部分其實是卡關然後如果它通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以它有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以熱測試\n101085\t109914\t那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決\n112525\t130615\t將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢\n131539\t157655\t市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標\n158516\t158556\t最終處置場\n176471\t200948\t其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實也有委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的 正確是正確的嘛好 現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分 對不對好\n202349\t222906\t當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備\n232154\t259361\t這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方\n260151\t280496\t但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況\n282296\t308397\t是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎即使我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起\n309921\t336911\t對,我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明\n338271\t360242\t好那接下來我們來看一下就是核電真的便宜嗎核能的成本其實我們其實有很多的部分是成本的部分沒有把它算進去當然其實我們可以從所有的發電的項目看到不管燃油也好或者是火力也好風力也好或者是太陽能也好當然核能發電這邊是112年1到4月統計出來的是1.65其實當然看起來這數字其實是\n368186\t378414\t大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆\n385680\t385860\t主席主席\n403014\t417044\t同意 完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算\n425612\t425832\t可以這樣說\n447816\t448617\t核能是全球趨勢嗎?\n469232\t479172\t特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎?您怎麼看這一題?\n481686\t500517\t我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向非核的部分現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷即便在現在這個世界的情況\n506901\t535620\t還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是face out因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇\n538143\t538443\t謝謝主委 謝謝主席\n","txt":"主席好 有請陳主委好 有請主委\n郭委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定\n現在目前卡關卡在哪裡?是地方政府嗎?\n現在核一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分這個部分其實是卡關然後如果它通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以它有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以熱測試\n那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決\n將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢\n市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標\n最終處置場\n其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實也有委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的 正確是正確的嘛好 現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分 對不對好\n當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備\n這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方\n但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況\n是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎即使我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起\n對,我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明\n好那接下來我們來看一下就是核電真的便宜嗎核能的成本其實我們其實有很多的部分是成本的部分沒有把它算進去當然其實我們可以從所有的發電的項目看到不管燃油也好或者是火力也好風力也好或者是太陽能也好當然核能發電這邊是112年1到4月統計出來的是1.65其實當然看起來這數字其實是\n大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆\n主席主席\n同意 完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算\n可以這樣說\n核能是全球趨勢嗎?\n特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎?您怎麼看這一題?\n我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向非核的部分現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷即便在現在這個世界的情況\n還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是face out因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇\n謝謝主委 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.625 --> 00:13.064\n主席好有請陳主委好有請主委\n\n00:17.476 --> 00:40.817\n郭委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定\n\n00:43.772 --> 00:44.793\n現在目前卡關卡在哪裡?是地方政府嗎?\n\n01:13.048 --> 01:38.584\n現在核一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分這個部分其實是卡關然後如果它通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以它有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以熱測試\n\n01:41.085 --> 01:49.914\n那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決\n\n01:52.525 --> 02:10.615\n將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢\n\n02:11.539 --> 02:37.655\n市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標\n\n02:38.516 --> 02:38.556\n最終處置場\n\n02:56.471 --> 03:20.948\n其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實也有委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的正確是正確的嘛好現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分對不對好\n\n03:22.349 --> 03:42.906\n當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備\n\n03:52.154 --> 04:19.361\n這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方\n\n04:20.151 --> 04:40.496\n但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況\n\n04:42.296 --> 05:08.397\n是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎即使我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起\n\n05:09.921 --> 05:36.911\n對,我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明\n\n05:38.271 --> 06:00.242\n好那接下來我們來看一下就是核電真的便宜嗎核能的成本其實我們其實有很多的部分是成本的部分沒有把它算進去當然其實我們可以從所有的發電的項目看到不管燃油也好或者是火力也好風力也好或者是太陽能也好當然核能發電這邊是112年1到4月統計出來的是1.65其實當然看起來這數字其實是\n\n06:08.186 --> 06:18.414\n大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆\n\n06:25.680 --> 06:25.860\n主席主席\n\n06:43.014 --> 06:57.044\n同意完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算\n\n07:05.612 --> 07:05.832\n可以這樣說\n\n07:27.816 --> 07:28.617\n核能是全球趨勢嗎?\n\n07:49.232 --> 07:59.172\n特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎?您怎麼看這一題?\n\n08:01.686 --> 08:20.517\n我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向非核的部分現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷即便在現在這個世界的情況\n\n08:26.901 --> 08:55.620\n還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是faceout因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇\n\n08:58.143 --> 08:58.443\n謝謝主委謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.625,"end":13.064,"text":"主席好 有請陳主委好 有請主委"},{"start":17.476,"end":40.817,"text":"郭委員好早安所以剛剛其實我們聽過了很多的一個討論那其實我來稍微講一下下其實我們大家都說這個最安全的交通工具其實是飛機但是飛機偶爾還是會有飛岸的意外所以其實剛剛主委您回答的的確也沒有錯很多事情是不能用是或者是不是來作為決定"},{"start":43.772,"end":44.793,"text":"現在目前卡關卡在哪裡?是地方政府嗎?"},{"start":73.048,"end":98.584,"text":"現在核一廠就是新北市政府還沒有核准臺電的二次變更設計隨途保持的部分這個部分其實是卡關然後如果它通過了剛才有委員講4月1號那還要通過那個完工延遲的部分所以它有兩個關卡那如果通過了那我們才可以熱測試"},{"start":101.085,"end":109.914,"text":"那如果通過了那經過我們核安會審查那他可以把私事儲存裡面的燃料棒移出來那大概就問題就可以解決"},{"start":112.525,"end":130.615,"text":"將來是不是都會一直在使用這個所謂的室內的乾除的設備因為我們知道其實室外我們已經花了300億對不對那現在是因為他們覺得室外有一些疑慮所以希望改成所謂的室內那在室內的部分呢"},{"start":131.539,"end":157.655,"text":"市內的部分是相對有共識那麼在社會上那麼核一廠的市內其實112年就去年的年底他已經公告這個採購的這個招標那核二廠呢這三個廠行政院都已經核定了那核二廠呢要到明年的7月核三廠要到後年的7月他才會公告招標"},{"start":158.516,"end":158.556,"text":"最終處置場"},{"start":176.471,"end":200.948,"text":"其實是勢必現在也都在進行所謂的評估那剛剛其實也有委員提到他的資料那這個部分是我們的資料啦我們辦公室找的資料我不知道這個年份的階段性是不是對的是的 正確是正確的嘛好 現在其實剛剛其實就這個主委的說法是現在我們應該是在候選場址跟評選跟核定的部分 對不對好"},{"start":202.349,"end":222.906,"text":"當然其實我們在第一階段的部分就是要包含牠的母鹽的特性來做一個調查跟評估但是也有可能會碰到當地政府他們居民的一些反對的聲音如果是這樣子的話會不會到了第三階段也就是我們已經要詳細地質的一個調查跟實驗會要再重頭再來一次這個會不會延宕到最後我們儲置場的一個設備"},{"start":232.154,"end":259.361,"text":"這個的確是最困難的問題社會溝通地方政府那大家對核廢料的終極處置的問題其實這個也就是我們非核家園大家裡面扛身就是核廢料的處理的難度那一碰到這個大家的這個民眾溝通地方政府就會有不同的意見那這個其實就是困難的地方"},{"start":260.151,"end":280.496,"text":"但是這個部分其實是最花時間的喔也就是說如果我們現在已經開始選定甚至我們提早已經確定了可是如果再碰到了剛剛所說的這些地方他們有一些反對的聲音我等於到了第三階段又要重新再回到第一個階段是不是有可能會變成這種狀況"},{"start":282.296,"end":308.397,"text":"是的有可能但是盡量的可以往前走盡量的希望可以找這個方向所以有機會可以在我們講的這五個階段當中的處置場最終的處置場可以如期在2055年之前完成嗎即使我們到了第三階段要從第一個階段開始走起"},{"start":309.921,"end":336.911,"text":"對,我覺得第二個階段是非常重要的階段那麼在這個部分的溝通跟進行還有大家共同的努力那麼我們核安會對這個部分也會提供安全的一些規範來給經濟部跟台電來做參考那這個部分的工作主要是台電跟經濟部在做負責跟委員說明"},{"start":338.271,"end":360.242,"text":"好那接下來我們來看一下就是核電真的便宜嗎核能的成本其實我們其實有很多的部分是成本的部分沒有把它算進去當然其實我們可以從所有的發電的項目看到不管燃油也好或者是火力也好風力也好或者是太陽能也好當然核能發電這邊是112年1到4月統計出來的是1.65其實當然看起來這數字其實是"},{"start":368.186,"end":378.414,"text":"大家認知的最便宜但這個部分其實我們還是要好好的來解釋一下我在跟我的辦公室助理我們在討論這題的時候其實就有點像房貸的概念房貸我如果繳清了我每個月的負擔就會變得很輕鬆"},{"start":385.68,"end":385.86,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":403.014,"end":417.044,"text":"同意 完全同意所以核費處理的一個增加的成本其實是5年我們會重新再估算一次所以這個成本如果再算上去的話我們的核電真的便宜嗎除了經濟的成本還有社會的成本這些都沒有辦法計算"},{"start":425.612,"end":425.832,"text":"可以這樣說"},{"start":447.816,"end":448.617,"text":"核能是全球趨勢嗎?"},{"start":469.232,"end":479.172,"text":"特別是站出來說要倡議但是其實2050年前我們的核能發電真的會提升三倍嗎?您怎麼看這一題?"},{"start":481.686,"end":500.517,"text":"我想跟委員報告不同的年代大環境有不同的趨勢在2011福島發生核災的時候其實全球大部分是走向非核的部分現在因為淨零碳排、氣候變遷即便在現在這個世界的情況"},{"start":506.901,"end":535.62,"text":"還是有兩邊德國他其實是非核家園他其實幾乎是face out因為其實德國官方其實已經駁斥了核能三倍的一個倡議了所以他已經駁斥了我們大家都知道德國其實是對很多事情是跑在很前面的他們已經說這個不是所謂的最便宜的核能也不是最方便或安全的他們其實已經反對這樣的說法了其實這個就是國家的能源政策是一個選擇"},{"start":538.143,"end":538.443,"text":"謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}]}}}}