{"id":150584,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150584","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdff2838c367a496eba35da83422e330f45f8ba9b0039caa7a683d3e8d5e50657605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:08:23 - 10:17:57","影片長度":"00:09:34","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢。\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等 6案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-10"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":574,"end_time":"2024-03-28T10:17:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T10:08:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":311,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（10時8分）我們請次長。"],["主席：田次長請。"],["田次長中光：委員早。"],["陳委員冠廷：早安。次長，你應該知道最近有一則新聞，就是英國選舉委員會的電子郵件、控制系統在去年8月遭到駭客攻擊，總共導致2014年到2022年約四千萬名註冊選民的姓名、地址、電話還有照片等個資都有外洩，副首相直接在國會公開點名中國，不知道次長有沒有聽過這則新聞？"],["田次長中光：有聽過這個消息。"],["陳委員冠廷：如果我們把時間再往前一點，2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干預美國選舉的劍橋分析，這個次長也有聽過嗎？"],["田次長中光：有。"],["陳委員冠廷：次長，你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾民主國家的選舉已經成為常態？"],["田次長中光：這是它一貫用的手法，用假訊息、用認知作戰，這種它都會用。"],["陳委員冠廷：前天泛歐綠黨訪臺的團長包瑞翰也談到說，在安全議題上面，俄羅斯是颱風、中國是氣候變遷，所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風這樣的威脅，就是包含中國跟俄羅斯，他們會在各個不同的地方、不同的領域去挑戰我們的民主選戰或者是選舉的過程，包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題。","所以這一次的美國大選，我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們介選的方式，特別最近臺灣有遇到一個問題，就是不在籍投票的討論，特別在境外投票也有人討論，我們大家大概是主要專注在中國，如果在中國投票的話，一定會受到若干干預跟影響，但我認為不僅僅在中國，在民主自由的國家，同樣也有中國的能量在裡面，他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統，物理上面也好，或者是透過這種網際網路去探知我們的個人資料也好，或者是直接利用得到的資料去做細部上面的這種脅迫，這都是有可能會發生的。外交部的立場當然不是中選會，但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊轉達給我國的相關選務機構，因為在美國發生的事情，未來一定不可能排除在臺灣發生嘛！所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國影響的時候，我們不僅僅是要再從地緣政治上面去看，同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國、中國還有其他集權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選，從中學習到一些東西，並且用真正的資訊提供給中選會，而不是說我們過個場，我們質詢完就結束，不是這樣子的，我想每一個部門都有它跨部會的協調，包含最近勞動部針對印度的一些說法，就是因為資訊沒有傳達完整，特別是外交部就是主責機構，對這些國家的基本背景、人文、宗教、種族，都必須做完整的說明給我們相關部門。","當然我個人並不支持此時在境外的不在籍投票，因為就如同剛才提到的這些問題，所以我還是希望，次長，未來假設立法院有決議，針對不在籍投票境外的部分，請你們做研議的話，你們會不會有什麼配套的作法？中國會怎麼樣介入？你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的模擬去防止？"],["田次長中光：您這個問題，我必須說，我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分，因為基本上，這個可能還是內政部、中選會的權責，但是在這些樣態方面，我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息、用認知作戰來影響一個國家的選舉結果，這個我們可以提供。"],["陳委員冠廷：次長，我剛才的意思不僅僅是這樣子，比方說，中國在美國已經歸化美國的國民，中國的駐美大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫？我為什麼講這句話？其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候、在美國留學的時候，中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生，叫他們做某些事情，叫他們不做某些事情，包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在，他們實質控制的力量，這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家，我們有責任把這些情報作為，甚至是報告去分享給其他的友邦，為什麼我們這麼說？就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣，如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這些事情，因為我們直接是語言相通的，大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰，我們大概也知道，那我們把這些訊息、情資做出來之後，美國第一線就會知道，我們就有辦法有相應的對口，有了相應的對口，未來面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致，所以我一直強調，當然這個是中選會的職責，跟外交部有什麼關係？這是美國的選舉，跟臺灣有什麼關係？如果都沒有關係的話，我們為什麼要研究這件事情？因為都是有聯繫的，我們的部門不可以有本位主義。"],["田次長中光：沒錯。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以我瞭解次長除了做整體的研討怎麼樣干預……你說社群媒體，除此之外，實質上國家的力量怎麼干預？我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告，在結束之後、選戰結束之後，一定要有完整的報告，儘量不要用模糊的語言，文字很多沒有意義啦！重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些實證是他們直接干預的？我們用實證來去說服民眾，這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅，不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到威脅，事實上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道，這個部分可不可以請次長傳達給外交部？"],["田次長中光：我跟委員報告，其實這次的選舉我們也派出很多學者、智庫到世界各地，尤其是美國，來說明我們選舉的過程，當然在這個過程當中也會利用這個機會讓他們瞭解中國介選的一些方法。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝。其實過去包含中國籍的這種一取得歸化權利之後來干預我們的選舉，甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉，甚至是這種錯假亂訊息，在地方上是時有所見，我是希望這些東西也可以從中選會那邊得到的資料，確實的傳達給其他我們的友邦，特別是民主國家、自由指數高的國家，他們真的是有自由、民主、透明的選舉，讓他們知道。"],["田次長中光：是的。"],["陳委員冠廷：最後再補充一下，這一次的選戰，我們當然知道他除了選擇總統之外，我們自己希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國跨黨派的動能，但是我還是想強調，不管是拜登還是川普總統，他們各自有不同的外交政策，比較多擔心的可能是關於再保證的部分，川普跟盟友再保證的部分，這部分次長有什麼樣的評估？"],["田次長中光：我請我們北美司的同仁來回答一下。"],["王司長良玉：其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府對於臺灣的政策一直是有它的延續性，對於海峽的情勢也都是一直在關注的，所以對臺灣來講，他們現在每次在提到對臺灣的政策的時候，強調的就是對臺灣的六項保證還有臺灣關係法。"],["陳委員冠廷：我剛剛講的是再保證，不是對臺灣，是對它的盟友的評估，過去當然是對中國的立場，川普總統是堅定的，但是對他盟友的立場，對日本、對韓國、對傳統的這個部分，您怎麼看這個部分？您怎麼評估？"],["王司長良玉：美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注臺海的情勢，所謂的再保證，目前是有一些學者在討論，但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法。"],["陳委員冠廷：請把我們的這些擔憂傳達過去，希望對盟友，不管是臺灣也好，對臺、日、韓、印太國家，都必須加強這個部分。最後一句話，520的觀禮計畫，我們當然知道520的觀禮計畫，我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟友我盟國的政要來，但是我還是強調，除了國會議員、總統、副總統，或者是我們友邦的元首等等，可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物，不管是在社群的影響也好，或者是在理念的部分，就是自由民主，他可能在我們的友邦，或許他可能是反對黨，他可能是支持反對黨的，可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化，但就如同我上次的質詢有強調，作為民主國家，我們有示範、領導的責任在，除了邀請友邦之外，包含友邦的這些在野陣營，或者甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量，當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考，謝謝次長。"],["田次長中光：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員，次長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","接下來進行詢答的委員是沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","林楚茵","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","黃國昌","李坤城","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","陳培瑜","林憶君","陳永康","羅智強"],"page_start":179,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢；\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等6案","agenda_id":"1132101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"150584","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150584","tool":"pyannote","id":"150584-pyannote"},"job_id":"mztfDlGm8PCWtx6A","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 100.814, \"end\": 101.314, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 101.314, \"end\": 101.495, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 101.495, \"end\": 101.715, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 101.715, \"end\": 102.375, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 102.375, \"end\": 102.435, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 102.435, \"end\": 102.495, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 102.495, \"end\": 102.615, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 102.615, \"end\": 102.735, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 102.735, \"end\": 102.895, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 102.895, \"end\": 103.155, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 103.155, \"end\": 103.295, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 103.295, \"end\": 103.456, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.456, \"end\": 103.976, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 103.976, \"end\": 104.116, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 104.116, \"end\": 104.196, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 104.196, \"end\": 104.416, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 104.416, \"end\": 104.516, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 104.516, \"end\": 104.816, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 104.816, \"end\": 105.056, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"干\", \"start\": 105.056, \"end\": 105.336, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"干\", \"start\": 105.336, \"end\": 105.677, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 105.677, \"end\": 105.797, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 105.797, \"end\": 105.817, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"響\"}]}, {\"start\": 106.457, \"end\": 131.484, \"text\": \"但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 106.457, \"end\": 106.557, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 106.557, \"end\": 106.917, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 106.917, \"end\": 107.397, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"僅\"}, {\"word\": \"僅\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 107.397, \"end\": 107.577, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 107.577, \"end\": 108.258, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 108.258, \"end\": 108.378, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 108.378, \"end\": 108.498, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 108.498, \"end\": 108.638, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 108.638, \"end\": 108.718, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 108.718, \"end\": 108.818, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 131.464, \"end\": 131.484, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}]}, {\"start\": 136.007, \"end\": 159.31, \"text\": \"因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 136.007, \"end\": 136.427, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 136.427, \"end\": 136.588, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 136.588, \"end\": 137.148, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 137.148, \"end\": 137.268, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 137.268, \"end\": 137.388, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 137.388, \"end\": 137.549, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 137.549, \"end\": 138.129, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 138.129, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 563.985, \"end\": 564.245, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 564.245, \"end\": 564.345, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 564.345, \"end\": 564.445, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 564.445, \"end\": 564.545, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 564.545, \"end\": 564.686, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 564.686, \"end\": 564.766, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 564.766, \"end\": 564.786, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,749 --> 00:00:02,769\n委員長\n\n2\n00:00:03,951 --> 00:00:05,171\n有聽過這個消息\n\n3\n00:00:34,110 --> 00:00:58,183\n那如果我們把時間再往前一點2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干涉美國選舉的建橋分析這個市長也有聽過嗎有有聽過部長你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾這一個民主國家的選舉已經成為常態這是他一貫用的手法這是他一貫用的手法當然就是用假訊息用認知作戰這種他都會用\n\n4\n00:00:59,161 --> 00:01:28,368\n我想前天這個泛歐綠黨訪台的團團長那鮑瑞漢也談到說在安全議題上面俄羅斯是颱風中國是氣候變遷所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風的這樣的威脅就是包含中國跟俄羅斯他們會在各個不同的地方不同的領域來去挑戰我們的民主這一個的選戰或者是選舉的過程包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題所以這一次的美國大選\n\n5\n00:01:28,928 --> 00:01:45,817\n我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們借選的方式特別最近台灣有遇到一個問題就是不在籍投票的討論特別在境外投票也有人討論那我們大概是主要專注在中國所以如果在中國投票的話那一定會受到若干干預跟影響\n\n6\n00:01:46,457 --> 00:02:11,484\n但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構\n\n7\n00:02:16,007 --> 00:02:39,310\n因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用\n\n8\n00:02:39,890 --> 00:03:06,136\n真正的資訊提供給中選會而不是就是說我們過場我們質詢完就結束不是這樣子的我想每一個部門都有他跨部會的協調包含最近勞動部那針對印度的一些說法就是因為資訊沒有傳達的完整特別是外交部就是主責機構對這些國家的這些基本的背景人文、宗教、種族都必須要做完整的這個說明給我們相關部門\n\n9\n00:03:07,711 --> 00:03:35,135\n當然我個人是並不支持此時在境外的不在期投票因為就是如同剛才提到的這些問題所以我還是希望市長如果說未來針對假設有一法院有決議那針對不在期的投票境外的部分請你們做言語的話你們會不會有什麼配套的做法中國會怎麼樣介入你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的這個模擬來去防止\n\n10\n00:03:37,751 --> 00:03:57,068\n您這個問題我必須說我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分因為基本上這個可能還是內政部總選會的一個權責但是呢在這些樣態方面我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息\n\n11\n00:03:58,169 --> 00:03:58,429\n中國在美國已經規劃美國的國民\n\n12\n00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:37,356\n那中國的駐美的大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫我為什麼講這句話其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候在美國留學的時候中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生叫他們做某些事情叫他們不做某件事情包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在那他們實質控制的力量這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家\n\n13\n00:04:38,888 --> 00:05:03,952\n我們有責任把這些情報作為這個甚至是報告來去分來去分享給其他的友邦為什麼我們這麼說就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這件事情因為我們直接是其實語言是相通的大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰我們大概也知道那我們把這些訊息情資做出來之後美國第一線就會知道我們就有辦法有相應的對口\n\n14\n00:05:04,412 --> 00:05:28,127\n有相應的對口未來預期面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致所以我一直強調說當然啦這個是中選會的職責啊跟外交部有什麼關係這是美國的選舉啊跟這個台灣有什麼關係但如果都沒有關係的話我們為什麼要研究這件事情因為都是有聯繫的我們的部門不可以有本位主義所以我了解市長會除了這個做這個整體的研討說怎麼樣干預\n\n15\n00:05:29,608 --> 00:05:43,317\n這個你說社群媒體除此之外實質上國家的力量怎麼干預我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告結束之後選戰結束之後一定要完整的那這個盡量不要用模糊的語言\n\n16\n00:05:43,937 --> 00:06:01,753\n那文字很多沒有意義啦重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些時政哪些時政是他們直接干預的我們用時政來去說服民眾說這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到的威脅實質上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道那\n\n17\n00:06:03,448 --> 00:06:21,867\n這個部分可不可以請市長能夠來傳達給外交部?我跟委員報告一下其實這次的選舉我們也派出了很多的學者智庫到世界各地尤其是美國來說明我們選舉的過程當然這個過程當中也會把中國借選的一些方法也利用這機會跟他們瞭解\n\n18\n00:06:23,989 --> 00:06:41,357\n謝謝,其實過去包含中國籍的一舉的規劃權利之後來干預我們的選舉甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉甚至是錯假亂訊息在地方上\n\n19\n00:06:42,157 --> 00:06:42,297\n此外﹗\n\n20\n00:07:04,315 --> 00:07:24,005\n我們是希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國的跨黨派的動能但是我還是想強調說不管是拜登還是川普總統他們各自有不同的外交政策那比較多擔心的可能是關於這個再保證的部分川普跟盟友再保證的部分這部分市長有什麼樣的評估\n\n21\n00:07:27,116 --> 00:07:49,622\n我請我們北美斯的同仁來回答一下其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府他對於台灣的政策一直是有他的延續性對於那個海峽的侵蝕也都是一直在專注的所以對台灣來講的話他們現在每次在提到對台灣的政策的時候強調的就是對台灣的六項保證還有台灣關係法\n\n22\n00:07:50,202 --> 00:08:05,278\n我剛講的是在保證不是是對台灣是對他的盟友的這個評估因為過去那當然是對中國的立場川普總統是堅定的但是對他盟友的立場對日本對韓國對傳統的這個部分您怎麼看這個部分你怎麼評估\n\n23\n00:08:06,392 --> 00:08:28,777\n美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注台海的情勢那所謂的在保證目前是有一些學者在討論但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法好那請把我們的這些擔憂還是要傳達過去希望說對盟友不管是台灣也好對台日韓等印太國家都必須要加強這個幫助最後一句話\n\n24\n00:08:29,997 --> 00:08:54,777\n五二零的管理計劃我們當然知道五二零的管理計劃我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟有我的盟國的政要來但是我還是強調除了國會議員總統副總統或者是我們友邦的元首等等可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物不管是在社群的影響也好或者是在理念的部分就自由民主他可能在\n\n25\n00:08:55,778 --> 00:09:22,864\n我們的友邦他或許他不是他可能是反對黨的他可能是支持反對黨的那可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化但我們就如同我上次的質詢有強調作為民主國家我們有示範有領導的責任在除了邀請友邦之外包含友邦的這些在野陣營或者是甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考\n\n26\n00:09:23,844 --> 00:09:24,786\n陳冠廷政天才委員不在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2749\t2769\t委員長\n3951\t5171\t有聽過這個消息\n34110\t58183\t那如果我們把時間再往前一點2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干涉美國選舉的建橋分析 這個市長也有聽過嗎有有聽過部長你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾這一個民主國家的選舉已經成為常態這是他一貫用的手法這是他一貫用的手法當然就是用假訊息用認知作戰這種他都會用\n59161\t88368\t我想前天這個泛歐綠黨訪台的團團長那鮑瑞漢也談到說在安全議題上面俄羅斯是颱風中國是氣候變遷所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風的這樣的威脅就是包含中國跟俄羅斯他們會在各個不同的地方不同的領域來去挑戰我們的民主這一個的選戰或者是選舉的過程包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題所以這一次的美國大選\n88928\t105817\t我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們借選的方式特別最近台灣有遇到一個問題就是不在籍投票的討論特別在境外投票也有人討論那我們大概是主要專注在中國所以如果在中國投票的話那一定會受到若干干預跟影響\n106457\t131484\t但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構\n136007\t159310\t因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用\n159890\t186136\t真正的資訊提供給中選會而不是就是說我們過場我們質詢完就結束不是這樣子的我想每一個部門都有他跨部會的協調包含最近勞動部那針對印度的一些說法就是因為資訊沒有傳達的完整特別是外交部就是主責機構對這些國家的這些基本的背景人文、宗教、種族都必須要做完整的這個說明給我們相關部門\n187711\t215135\t當然我個人是並不支持此時在境外的不在期投票因為就是如同剛才提到的這些問題所以我還是希望市長如果說未來針對假設有一法院有決議那針對不在期的投票境外的部分請你們做言語的話你們會不會有什麼配套的做法中國會怎麼樣介入你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的這個模擬來去防止\n217751\t237068\t您這個問題我必須說我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分因為基本上這個可能還是內政部總選會的一個權責但是呢在這些樣態方面我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息\n238169\t238429\t中國在美國已經規劃美國的國民\n253140\t277356\t那中國的駐美的大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫我為什麼講這句話其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候在美國留學的時候中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生叫他們做某些事情叫他們不做某件事情包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在那他們實質控制的力量這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家\n278888\t303952\t我們有責任把這些情報作為這個甚至是報告來去分來去分享給其他的友邦為什麼我們這麼說就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這件事情因為我們直接是其實語言是相通的大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰我們大概也知道那我們把這些訊息情資做出來之後美國第一線就會知道我們就有辦法有相應的對口\n304412\t328127\t有相應的對口未來預期面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致所以我一直強調說當然啦這個是中選會的職責啊跟外交部有什麼關係這是美國的選舉啊跟這個台灣有什麼關係但如果都沒有關係的話我們為什麼要研究這件事情因為都是有聯繫的我們的部門不可以有本位主義所以我了解市長會除了這個做這個整體的研討說怎麼樣干預\n329608\t343317\t這個你說社群媒體除此之外實質上國家的力量怎麼干預我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告結束之後選戰結束之後一定要完整的那這個盡量不要用模糊的語言\n343937\t361753\t那文字很多沒有意義啦重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些時政哪些時政是他們直接干預的我們用時政來去說服民眾說這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到的威脅實質上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道那\n363448\t381867\t這個部分可不可以請市長能夠來傳達給外交部?我跟委員報告一下其實這次的選舉我們也派出了很多的學者智庫到世界各地尤其是美國來說明我們選舉的過程當然這個過程當中也會把中國借選的一些方法也利用這機會跟他們瞭解\n383989\t401357\t謝謝,其實過去包含中國籍的一舉的規劃權利之後來干預我們的選舉甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉甚至是錯假亂訊息在地方上\n402157\t402297\t此外﹗\n424315\t444005\t我們是希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國的跨黨派的動能但是我還是想強調說不管是拜登還是川普總統他們各自有不同的外交政策那比較多擔心的可能是關於這個再保證的部分川普跟盟友再保證的部分這部分市長有什麼樣的評估\n447116\t469622\t我請我們北美斯的同仁來回答一下其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府他對於台灣的政策一直是有他的延續性對於那個海峽的侵蝕也都是一直在專注的所以對台灣來講的話他們現在每次在提到對台灣的政策的時候強調的就是對台灣的六項保證還有台灣關係法\n470202\t485278\t我剛講的是在保證不是是對台灣是對他的盟友的這個評估因為過去那當然是對中國的立場川普總統是堅定的但是對他盟友的立場對日本對韓國對傳統的這個部分您怎麼看這個部分你怎麼評估\n486392\t508777\t美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注台海的情勢那所謂的在保證目前是有一些學者在討論但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法好那請把我們的這些擔憂還是要傳達過去希望說對盟友不管是台灣也好對台日韓等印太國家都必須要加強這個幫助最後一句話\n509997\t534777\t五二零的管理計劃我們當然知道五二零的管理計劃我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟有我的盟國的政要來但是我還是強調除了國會議員總統副總統或者是我們友邦的元首等等可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物不管是在社群的影響也好或者是在理念的部分就自由民主他可能在\n535778\t562864\t我們的友邦他或許他不是他可能是反對黨的他可能是支持反對黨的那可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化但我們就如同我上次的質詢有強調作為民主國家我們有示範有領導的責任在除了邀請友邦之外包含友邦的這些在野陣營或者是甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考\n563844\t564786\t陳冠廷政天才委員不在\n","txt":"委員長\n有聽過這個消息\n那如果我們把時間再往前一點2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干涉美國選舉的建橋分析 這個市長也有聽過嗎有有聽過部長你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾這一個民主國家的選舉已經成為常態這是他一貫用的手法這是他一貫用的手法當然就是用假訊息用認知作戰這種他都會用\n我想前天這個泛歐綠黨訪台的團團長那鮑瑞漢也談到說在安全議題上面俄羅斯是颱風中國是氣候變遷所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風的這樣的威脅就是包含中國跟俄羅斯他們會在各個不同的地方不同的領域來去挑戰我們的民主這一個的選戰或者是選舉的過程包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題所以這一次的美國大選\n我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們借選的方式特別最近台灣有遇到一個問題就是不在籍投票的討論特別在境外投票也有人討論那我們大概是主要專注在中國所以如果在中國投票的話那一定會受到若干干預跟影響\n但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構\n因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用\n真正的資訊提供給中選會而不是就是說我們過場我們質詢完就結束不是這樣子的我想每一個部門都有他跨部會的協調包含最近勞動部那針對印度的一些說法就是因為資訊沒有傳達的完整特別是外交部就是主責機構對這些國家的這些基本的背景人文、宗教、種族都必須要做完整的這個說明給我們相關部門\n當然我個人是並不支持此時在境外的不在期投票因為就是如同剛才提到的這些問題所以我還是希望市長如果說未來針對假設有一法院有決議那針對不在期的投票境外的部分請你們做言語的話你們會不會有什麼配套的做法中國會怎麼樣介入你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的這個模擬來去防止\n您這個問題我必須說我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分因為基本上這個可能還是內政部總選會的一個權責但是呢在這些樣態方面我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息\n中國在美國已經規劃美國的國民\n那中國的駐美的大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫我為什麼講這句話其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候在美國留學的時候中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生叫他們做某些事情叫他們不做某件事情包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在那他們實質控制的力量這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家\n我們有責任把這些情報作為這個甚至是報告來去分來去分享給其他的友邦為什麼我們這麼說就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這件事情因為我們直接是其實語言是相通的大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰我們大概也知道那我們把這些訊息情資做出來之後美國第一線就會知道我們就有辦法有相應的對口\n有相應的對口未來預期面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致所以我一直強調說當然啦這個是中選會的職責啊跟外交部有什麼關係這是美國的選舉啊跟這個台灣有什麼關係但如果都沒有關係的話我們為什麼要研究這件事情因為都是有聯繫的我們的部門不可以有本位主義所以我了解市長會除了這個做這個整體的研討說怎麼樣干預\n這個你說社群媒體除此之外實質上國家的力量怎麼干預我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告結束之後選戰結束之後一定要完整的那這個盡量不要用模糊的語言\n那文字很多沒有意義啦重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些時政哪些時政是他們直接干預的我們用時政來去說服民眾說這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到的威脅實質上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道那\n這個部分可不可以請市長能夠來傳達給外交部?我跟委員報告一下其實這次的選舉我們也派出了很多的學者智庫到世界各地尤其是美國來說明我們選舉的過程當然這個過程當中也會把中國借選的一些方法也利用這機會跟他們瞭解\n謝謝,其實過去包含中國籍的一舉的規劃權利之後來干預我們的選舉甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉甚至是錯假亂訊息在地方上\n此外﹗\n我們是希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國的跨黨派的動能但是我還是想強調說不管是拜登還是川普總統他們各自有不同的外交政策那比較多擔心的可能是關於這個再保證的部分川普跟盟友再保證的部分這部分市長有什麼樣的評估\n我請我們北美斯的同仁來回答一下其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府他對於台灣的政策一直是有他的延續性對於那個海峽的侵蝕也都是一直在專注的所以對台灣來講的話他們現在每次在提到對台灣的政策的時候強調的就是對台灣的六項保證還有台灣關係法\n我剛講的是在保證不是是對台灣是對他的盟友的這個評估因為過去那當然是對中國的立場川普總統是堅定的但是對他盟友的立場對日本對韓國對傳統的這個部分您怎麼看這個部分你怎麼評估\n美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注台海的情勢那所謂的在保證目前是有一些學者在討論但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法好那請把我們的這些擔憂還是要傳達過去希望說對盟友不管是台灣也好對台日韓等印太國家都必須要加強這個幫助最後一句話\n五二零的管理計劃我們當然知道五二零的管理計劃我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟有我的盟國的政要來但是我還是強調除了國會議員總統副總統或者是我們友邦的元首等等可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物不管是在社群的影響也好或者是在理念的部分就自由民主他可能在\n我們的友邦他或許他不是他可能是反對黨的他可能是支持反對黨的那可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化但我們就如同我上次的質詢有強調作為民主國家我們有示範有領導的責任在除了邀請友邦之外包含友邦的這些在野陣營或者是甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考\n陳冠廷政天才委員不在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.749 --> 00:02.769\n委員長\n\n00:03.951 --> 00:05.171\n有聽過這個消息\n\n00:34.110 --> 00:58.183\n那如果我們把時間再往前一點2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干涉美國選舉的建橋分析這個市長也有聽過嗎有有聽過部長你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾這一個民主國家的選舉已經成為常態這是他一貫用的手法這是他一貫用的手法當然就是用假訊息用認知作戰這種他都會用\n\n00:59.161 --> 01:28.368\n我想前天這個泛歐綠黨訪台的團團長那鮑瑞漢也談到說在安全議題上面俄羅斯是颱風中國是氣候變遷所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風的這樣的威脅就是包含中國跟俄羅斯他們會在各個不同的地方不同的領域來去挑戰我們的民主這一個的選戰或者是選舉的過程包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題所以這一次的美國大選\n\n01:28.928 --> 01:45.817\n我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們借選的方式特別最近台灣有遇到一個問題就是不在籍投票的討論特別在境外投票也有人討論那我們大概是主要專注在中國所以如果在中國投票的話那一定會受到若干干預跟影響\n\n01:46.457 --> 02:11.484\n但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構\n\n02:16.007 --> 02:39.310\n因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用\n\n02:39.890 --> 03:06.136\n真正的資訊提供給中選會而不是就是說我們過場我們質詢完就結束不是這樣子的我想每一個部門都有他跨部會的協調包含最近勞動部那針對印度的一些說法就是因為資訊沒有傳達的完整特別是外交部就是主責機構對這些國家的這些基本的背景人文、宗教、種族都必須要做完整的這個說明給我們相關部門\n\n03:07.711 --> 03:35.135\n當然我個人是並不支持此時在境外的不在期投票因為就是如同剛才提到的這些問題所以我還是希望市長如果說未來針對假設有一法院有決議那針對不在期的投票境外的部分請你們做言語的話你們會不會有什麼配套的做法中國會怎麼樣介入你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的這個模擬來去防止\n\n03:37.751 --> 03:57.068\n您這個問題我必須說我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分因為基本上這個可能還是內政部總選會的一個權責但是呢在這些樣態方面我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息\n\n03:58.169 --> 03:58.429\n中國在美國已經規劃美國的國民\n\n04:13.140 --> 04:37.356\n那中國的駐美的大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫我為什麼講這句話其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候在美國留學的時候中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生叫他們做某些事情叫他們不做某件事情包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在那他們實質控制的力量這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家\n\n04:38.888 --> 05:03.952\n我們有責任把這些情報作為這個甚至是報告來去分來去分享給其他的友邦為什麼我們這麼說就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這件事情因為我們直接是其實語言是相通的大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰我們大概也知道那我們把這些訊息情資做出來之後美國第一線就會知道我們就有辦法有相應的對口\n\n05:04.412 --> 05:28.127\n有相應的對口未來預期面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致所以我一直強調說當然啦這個是中選會的職責啊跟外交部有什麼關係這是美國的選舉啊跟這個台灣有什麼關係但如果都沒有關係的話我們為什麼要研究這件事情因為都是有聯繫的我們的部門不可以有本位主義所以我了解市長會除了這個做這個整體的研討說怎麼樣干預\n\n05:29.608 --> 05:43.317\n這個你說社群媒體除此之外實質上國家的力量怎麼干預我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告結束之後選戰結束之後一定要完整的那這個盡量不要用模糊的語言\n\n05:43.937 --> 06:01.753\n那文字很多沒有意義啦重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些時政哪些時政是他們直接干預的我們用時政來去說服民眾說這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到的威脅實質上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道那\n\n06:03.448 --> 06:21.867\n這個部分可不可以請市長能夠來傳達給外交部?我跟委員報告一下其實這次的選舉我們也派出了很多的學者智庫到世界各地尤其是美國來說明我們選舉的過程當然這個過程當中也會把中國借選的一些方法也利用這機會跟他們瞭解\n\n06:23.989 --> 06:41.357\n謝謝,其實過去包含中國籍的一舉的規劃權利之後來干預我們的選舉甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉甚至是錯假亂訊息在地方上\n\n06:42.157 --> 06:42.297\n此外﹗\n\n07:04.315 --> 07:24.005\n我們是希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國的跨黨派的動能但是我還是想強調說不管是拜登還是川普總統他們各自有不同的外交政策那比較多擔心的可能是關於這個再保證的部分川普跟盟友再保證的部分這部分市長有什麼樣的評估\n\n07:27.116 --> 07:49.622\n我請我們北美斯的同仁來回答一下其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府他對於台灣的政策一直是有他的延續性對於那個海峽的侵蝕也都是一直在專注的所以對台灣來講的話他們現在每次在提到對台灣的政策的時候強調的就是對台灣的六項保證還有台灣關係法\n\n07:50.202 --> 08:05.278\n我剛講的是在保證不是是對台灣是對他的盟友的這個評估因為過去那當然是對中國的立場川普總統是堅定的但是對他盟友的立場對日本對韓國對傳統的這個部分您怎麼看這個部分你怎麼評估\n\n08:06.392 --> 08:28.777\n美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注台海的情勢那所謂的在保證目前是有一些學者在討論但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法好那請把我們的這些擔憂還是要傳達過去希望說對盟友不管是台灣也好對台日韓等印太國家都必須要加強這個幫助最後一句話\n\n08:29.997 --> 08:54.777\n五二零的管理計劃我們當然知道五二零的管理計劃我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟有我的盟國的政要來但是我還是強調除了國會議員總統副總統或者是我們友邦的元首等等可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物不管是在社群的影響也好或者是在理念的部分就自由民主他可能在\n\n08:55.778 --> 09:22.864\n我們的友邦他或許他不是他可能是反對黨的他可能是支持反對黨的那可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化但我們就如同我上次的質詢有強調作為民主國家我們有示範有領導的責任在除了邀請友邦之外包含友邦的這些在野陣營或者是甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考\n\n09:23.844 --> 09:24.786\n陳冠廷政天才委員不在\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.749,"end":2.769,"text":"委員長"},{"start":3.951,"end":5.171,"text":"有聽過這個消息"},{"start":34.11,"end":58.183,"text":"那如果我們把時間再往前一點2016年包含不當使用臉書用戶來去干涉美國選舉的建橋分析 這個市長也有聽過嗎有有聽過部長你會不會覺得說極權主義干擾這一個民主國家的選舉已經成為常態這是他一貫用的手法這是他一貫用的手法當然就是用假訊息用認知作戰這種他都會用"},{"start":59.161,"end":88.368,"text":"我想前天這個泛歐綠黨訪台的團團長那鮑瑞漢也談到說在安全議題上面俄羅斯是颱風中國是氣候變遷所以現在我們同時要面對的是氣候變遷跟颱風的這樣的威脅就是包含中國跟俄羅斯他們會在各個不同的地方不同的領域來去挑戰我們的民主這一個的選戰或者是選舉的過程包含在美國也會遇到這樣子的問題所以這一次的美國大選"},{"start":88.928,"end":105.817,"text":"我希望外交部的同仁能夠持續觀察他們借選的方式特別最近台灣有遇到一個問題就是不在籍投票的討論特別在境外投票也有人討論那我們大概是主要專注在中國所以如果在中國投票的話那一定會受到若干干預跟影響"},{"start":106.457,"end":131.484,"text":"但我認為不僅僅在中國在民主自由的國家同樣也有中國的能量在裡面他們同樣能夠透過干預的系統物理上面也好或者是透過這種網際網路來去探知我們的個人資料也好或者是直接利用得到的資料來去做細部上面的這種脅迫這都是有可能會發生的那外交部的立場當然不是中選會但是要把這些情資跟這些資訊來轉達給我國的相關選務機構"},{"start":136.007,"end":159.31,"text":"因為在美國發生的事情未來一定也沒有不可能排除在台灣發生所以今天我們看2024年大選過程對我國的影響的時候我們不僅僅是要再從地緣正式上面去看同時要從這個國家怎麼遇到俄國中國還有其他極權國家怎麼樣去干預他們大選從中學習到一些東西並且用"},{"start":159.89,"end":186.136,"text":"真正的資訊提供給中選會而不是就是說我們過場我們質詢完就結束不是這樣子的我想每一個部門都有他跨部會的協調包含最近勞動部那針對印度的一些說法就是因為資訊沒有傳達的完整特別是外交部就是主責機構對這些國家的這些基本的背景人文、宗教、種族都必須要做完整的這個說明給我們相關部門"},{"start":187.711,"end":215.135,"text":"當然我個人是並不支持此時在境外的不在期投票因為就是如同剛才提到的這些問題所以我還是希望市長如果說未來針對假設有一法院有決議那針對不在期的投票境外的部分請你們做言語的話你們會不會有什麼配套的做法中國會怎麼樣介入你們有沒有辦法做一些事先的這個模擬來去防止"},{"start":217.751,"end":237.068,"text":"您這個問題我必須說我們並沒有考慮過境外投票的部分因為基本上這個可能還是內政部總選會的一個權責但是呢在這些樣態方面我們可以去收集中國怎麼樣去用假訊息"},{"start":238.169,"end":238.429,"text":"中國在美國已經規劃美國的國民"},{"start":253.14,"end":277.356,"text":"那中國的駐美的大使館有沒有透過他們的能量去脅迫我為什麼講這句話其實過去我們在美國就讀的時候在美國留學的時候中國大使館就直接會發訊息給他們的留學生叫他們做某些事情叫他們不做某件事情包含對他們僑民都有實質控制的力量在那他們實質控制的力量這個東西作為面對威脅的第一線國家"},{"start":278.888,"end":303.952,"text":"我們有責任把這些情報作為這個甚至是報告來去分來去分享給其他的友邦為什麼我們這麼說就如同我們會去讀美國的報告一樣如果我們第一線的人知道他們會做這件事情因為我們直接是其實語言是相通的大概他們的僑民遇到什麼樣的挑戰我們大概也知道那我們把這些訊息情資做出來之後美國第一線就會知道我們就有辦法有相應的對口"},{"start":304.412,"end":328.127,"text":"有相應的對口未來預期面對這樣的威脅跟挑戰的時候就能夠更加的一致所以我一直強調說當然啦這個是中選會的職責啊跟外交部有什麼關係這是美國的選舉啊跟這個台灣有什麼關係但如果都沒有關係的話我們為什麼要研究這件事情因為都是有聯繫的我們的部門不可以有本位主義所以我了解市長會除了這個做這個整體的研討說怎麼樣干預"},{"start":329.608,"end":343.317,"text":"這個你說社群媒體除此之外實質上國家的力量怎麼干預我希望還是有一個相關的書面報告結束之後選戰結束之後一定要完整的那這個盡量不要用模糊的語言"},{"start":343.937,"end":361.753,"text":"那文字很多沒有意義啦重點是有沒有辦法精確的掌握到哪些時政哪些時政是他們直接干預的我們用時政來去說服民眾說這就是我們實質上面臨的威脅不是說這是我們要鼓吹我們面臨到的威脅實質上發生的事情就要讓民眾知道那"},{"start":363.448,"end":381.867,"text":"這個部分可不可以請市長能夠來傳達給外交部?我跟委員報告一下其實這次的選舉我們也派出了很多的學者智庫到世界各地尤其是美國來說明我們選舉的過程當然這個過程當中也會把中國借選的一些方法也利用這機會跟他們瞭解"},{"start":383.989,"end":401.357,"text":"謝謝,其實過去包含中國籍的一舉的規劃權利之後來干預我們的選舉甚至是合成我國的黨主席跟他們的這些照片在干預選舉甚至是錯假亂訊息在地方上"},{"start":402.157,"end":402.297,"text":"此外﹗"},{"start":424.315,"end":444.005,"text":"我們是希望透過這個系統來去擴大跟美國的跨黨派的動能但是我還是想強調說不管是拜登還是川普總統他們各自有不同的外交政策那比較多擔心的可能是關於這個再保證的部分川普跟盟友再保證的部分這部分市長有什麼樣的評估"},{"start":447.116,"end":469.622,"text":"我請我們北美斯的同仁來回答一下其實我們一直在強調的就是美國政府他對於台灣的政策一直是有他的延續性對於那個海峽的侵蝕也都是一直在專注的所以對台灣來講的話他們現在每次在提到對台灣的政策的時候強調的就是對台灣的六項保證還有台灣關係法"},{"start":470.202,"end":485.278,"text":"我剛講的是在保證不是是對台灣是對他的盟友的這個評估因為過去那當然是對中國的立場川普總統是堅定的但是對他盟友的立場對日本對韓國對傳統的這個部分您怎麼看這個部分你怎麼評估"},{"start":486.392,"end":508.777,"text":"美國政府現在也是很積極的在跟盟友一起來關注台海的情勢那所謂的在保證目前是有一些學者在討論但是我想我們對這個也是有我們自己的看法好那請把我們的這些擔憂還是要傳達過去希望說對盟友不管是台灣也好對台日韓等印太國家都必須要加強這個幫助最後一句話"},{"start":509.997,"end":534.777,"text":"五二零的管理計劃我們當然知道五二零的管理計劃我們一定會邀請許多邦交國跟有我的盟國的政要來但是我還是強調除了國會議員總統副總統或者是我們友邦的元首等等可以思考的就是非政要的重要影響人物不管是在社群的影響也好或者是在理念的部分就自由民主他可能在"},{"start":535.778,"end":562.864,"text":"我們的友邦他或許他不是他可能是反對黨的他可能是支持反對黨的那可能這個國家還不是這麼民主化但我們就如同我上次的質詢有強調作為民主國家我們有示範有領導的責任在除了邀請友邦之外包含友邦的這些在野陣營或者是甚至是異議人士都可以納入考量當然是在不危及邦誼的狀況之下可以做思考"},{"start":563.844,"end":564.786,"text":"陳冠廷政天才委員不在"}]}}}}