{"id":150585,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150585","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf4696925d3e3dac0bb83f090e56da198af8ba9b0039caa7a69817037465c880e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:12:26 - 10:20:58","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「社會安全網缺失檢討及具體改進作法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結案18案（報告事項）。【第18案，如經復議則不予處理】\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":512,"end_time":"2024-03-28T10:20:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T10:12:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1111,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（10時12分）主席好，有請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長好。今天還是要檢討社安網，既然社安網有缺失，我們要看怎麼來補洞，所以收出養管理辦法是不是應該要檢討？那我們就回來看，想問幾件事情，本來你就訂有兒少收出養媒合服務者許可及管理辦法，第三條第二項明確規定要經目的事業主管機關同意。如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部，那請問社家署有取得教育部的同意書嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果以財團法人來說的話，教育部是主管機關，我們才是目的事業主管機關……"],["林委員月琴：對，他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嘛？因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意，所以有沒有取得它的同意書？"],["薛部長瑞元：在申請的時候他們有檢附教育部的同意書。"],["林委員月琴：會後是不是提供給我？就是的確目的事業主管機關是同意的。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["林委員月琴：第二個，這個事實上是文教事業，請林次長，像這個辦法，是93年、101年、104年，先問一下衛福部，因為在101年的時候同意文教事業，目前這樣看起來8個機構，過去12個也一樣，獨獨就只有兒福聯盟是文教，所以先問部長為什麼文教事業可以？因為它的目的就是不相同啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：應該說這是由於歷史的緣故，兒福聯盟的成立是早於101年。"],["林委員月琴：你們兩個部會在管理的時候就沒辦法……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["林委員月琴：可不可以告訴我，當初為什麼會是文教事業？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為它很早成立，而且開始有做這一方面的工作。我們101年在訂的時候，我們承認它既有的工作做得還算順利，所以就把它納進來，但它是文教基金會，這我沒有看到……"],["林委員月琴：好。我再問次長，因為這是你們自己訂的，如果教育部審查教育事務財團法人設立許可，要辦你們本部主管業務之公益性教育事務，而你今天的報告裡面也特別提到，它的工作人員、社工有308人，對於社工的流程、社工的知能這些東西，貴部瞭解嗎？否則的話，你要管理它耶！"],["林次長明裕：的確，它80年成立的時候是以文教基金會來成立，但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主。"],["林委員月琴：我先問，你們自己對社工的流程、社工的知能，有辦法掌握嗎？可是你是它的主管機關。"],["林次長明裕：那個不是我們目的事業主管機關……"],["林委員月琴：對啊！那為什麼它還是存在？可是它做的都是社會福利業務……"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["林委員月琴：非你們文教……"],["林次長明裕：對，它……"],["林委員月琴：因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣寫，它要做的事實上是跟你們目的事業有關係的，可是好像看起來不是啊！"],["林次長明裕：它只有很少很少的一部分占比。"],["林委員月琴：為什麼教育部不去啟動、去處理這件事情呢？"],["林次長明裕：我們可以……"],["林委員月琴：次長，這邊順便一併問，你這個檢討報告我實在也不是很能接受，你知不知道它的董事會裡面有會計師？那到底它的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證，還是事實上是有別家？到時候是不是給我書面資料？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員月琴：我也想問教育部，買房子這件事情，針對你們轄下的……我想不是不能買房子，到底置產的狀態是怎麼樣，有沒有去管理？因為一棟一棟買，然後買的事實上都是……"],["林次長明裕：對，它在5年前買了一棟內湖總部，將近4億，去年在臺中買了一棟5層樓，大概9,800萬。"],["林委員月琴：還有基隆。還有其他的喔！"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["林委員月琴：可是這邊都看不到相關資料，到底整個狀態會是怎麼樣？社福機構當然為了不用一直搬遷，的確會買房……"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["林委員月琴：可是買平房跟買豪宅事實上是不一樣的，所以有沒有針對這個……還有我剛剛講會計師簽證，是它自己的董事在簽證……"],["林次長明裕：外部。"],["林委員月琴：還是事實上有其他人去做簽證的這個動作？"],["林次長明裕：國內四大知名的會計師事務所。"],["林委員月琴：然後它的支出，雖然董事會沒有，可是過去出國參訪很多次，尤其去了可能十幾、二十天，這些費用又是誰支出，教育部到底知不知道？"],["林次長明裕：這個我們可以查查。"],["林委員月琴：如果不知道的話，那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受，這個報告講的都好像沒什麼太大問題，可是我們看到的問題點好像跟你這邊的問題點不太一樣啊！"],["林次長明裕：我們可以再深入地查查。"],["林委員月琴：教育部可不可以針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員月琴：再問次長，有評鑑嗎？因為第三條規定「財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或八十分以上」，衛福部說它要這樣才可以拿到許可證喔！那請問一下教育部，你有評鑑嗎？沒有評鑑，那就要再回來問衛福部，沒有評鑑的話，為什麼它可以拿到這個許可？因為初期第一次許可，它必須要是「財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或八十分以上」，所以先問次長，有評鑑嗎？"],["林次長明裕：沒有。"],["林委員月琴：你們有嗎？"],["林次長明裕：沒有。"],["林委員月琴：沒有。那就問衛福部，沒有評鑑，為什麼它可以拿到許可？"],["簡署長慧娟：因為那時候有評鑑，後來……"],["林委員月琴：那請提出評鑑結果給我。我講的是教育部的評鑑，因為剛剛教育部回答說沒有評鑑喔！"],["林次長明裕：對，我們有實地查核，沒有評鑑。"],["林委員月琴：可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上，所以如果教育部沒有評鑑，那就請問一下衛福部，你們是怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的？"],["李次長麗芬：那時候有評鑑。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們再來查一下，看看……"],["林委員月琴：我時間有限，所以你們如果講有，就拿出證據來，告訴我說有這個評鑑結果，因為要80分或評鑑甲等，可是剛剛教育部說沒有評鑑。事實上文教基金會幾乎都沒有評鑑，所以我不知道你們是怎麼樣拿到甲等或80分以上，才會予以許可。","接下來是要請問衛福部，收出養後續要持續拿到評鑑結果，才可以繼續獲得許可，所以衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎？我看到是三年要評鑑一次……"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話……"],["林委員月琴：第二十七條是講三年要一次。"],["薛部長瑞元：三年一次，對。"],["林委員月琴：評鑑標準和內容是什麼？因為第二十七條講得很模糊，所以要有一些paperwork的資料，請問會後是不是可以提出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：好，我們會提出來。"],["林委員月琴：為什麼我要你們提出來？108年發生珮珮案，109年事實上我手頭還有其他兒虐案，一樣都是兒福聯盟，可是他們110年再次通過許可，為什麼？如果事實上有發生兒虐，帶這個孩子的保母被停權了，孩子移送到下一個保母家，結果它可以繼續拿到你們的許可證，為什麼？所以可不可以一樣，甲等怎麼來的？請衛福部提供評鑑報告，告訴我這3個時間序，否則我要一一公布個案，看到底發生了什麼事。"],["薛部長瑞元：其中有一個案子是……"],["林委員月琴：一週可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：可以。"],["林委員月琴：把我剛剛講的，包含教育部跟衛福部，都把相關資料給我。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["林委員月琴：以上，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝林月琴委員。","接下來請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":526,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","林淑芬","陳菁徽","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","王正旭","盧縣一","郭昱晴","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 508.69, \"end\": 508.97, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 508.97, \"end\": 509.491, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 509.491, \"end\": 509.551, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 509.551, \"end\": 509.571, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,088 --> 00:00:09,910\n社安網有缺失,我們要看怎麼來補動\n\n2\n00:00:24,557 --> 00:00:49,729\n所以是不是收出養管理辦法應該要去做檢討了那我們就回來看想問的幾件事情因為你本來就定有這個所謂兒少收出養媒合服務者的許可跟管理辦法那它第三條的第二項明確的是說要經目的事業主管機關同意那如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部那請問一下社家署有取得\n\n3\n00:00:50,495 --> 00:01:11,513\n那個教育部這個同意書嗎?應該如果以財團法人來說的話教育部是主管機關我們才是那你有沒有請就他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嗎?因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意嗎?在申請的時候他們有檢討這個教育部的同意\n\n4\n00:01:15,004 --> 00:01:15,445\n這個辦法是93年、101年、104年\n\n5\n00:01:42,386 --> 00:02:02,612\n那先問一下衛福部為什麼因為在101年的時候同意文教事業獨獨目前這樣看起來8個機構過去12個也一樣就只有兒童福利聯盟是文教所以先問部長說為什麼是文教事業可以因為他的目的就是不相同啊\n\n6\n00:02:04,332 --> 00:02:23,113\n因為應該是說這是一個歷史的緣故啦那兒童福利聯盟它成立是早於你兩個部會在管理的時候就會沒辦法通題嘛所以不知道就當初可不可以告訴我當初為什麼會要維教試驗因為它很早就成立而且就開始有做這一方面的工作\n\n7\n00:02:23,914 --> 00:02:53,634\n那我們在訂101年在訂的時候就是我們承認說他算是既有的工作做得還算順利所以我們就把他納進來但是他是文教基金的這個沒有好那我再問次長一下齁次長齁因為這是你們自己訂的嘛齁就是說如果教育部審查教育事務財產法設立許可他要辦你們本部主管業務的公益性教育事務那你今天的報告裡面也特別提喔\n\n8\n00:02:54,174 --> 00:03:02,018\n他的工作人員有社工有308人你對社工的流程、社工的智能這些東西貴不了解嗎?你要管理他欸\n\n9\n00:03:04,878 --> 00:03:30,163\n的確了,它80年成立的時候它是以文教基因會來成立但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主我先問說你們自己對社工的流程社工的資能要掌握的話有辦法嗎?可是你是它的主管機關為什麼它還是存在可是它做的都是社會福利業務非你們文教因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣講它事實上是要\n\n10\n00:03:31,448 --> 00:03:55,808\n要做的事實上是你們跟你們目的事業有關係的可是好像看起來不是啊他只有很少很少的一部分為什麼教育部不去啟動去處理這件事情呢因為加上我覺得次長這邊順便一遍問你這個檢討報告我實在是也是不是很難接受你知不知道他的董事會裡邊有會計師那到底他的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證\n\n11\n00:04:00,071 --> 00:04:05,876\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就«出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n\n12\n00:04:21,645 --> 00:04:40,221\n因為一棟一棟買,然後都買的事實上是比較對,它內湖總部有在五年前買了一棟,將近四億那去年在台中買了一棟五層樓的大概九千八百萬還有基隆還有其他,我想可是這邊都看不到相關的資料說到底整個狀態會是什麼我說社福機構當然為了\n\n13\n00:04:44,324 --> 00:04:44,565\n主席\n\n14\n00:04:53,766 --> 00:05:21,801\n還有我剛剛講會計師簽證是他自己的董事在簽證還是事實上是有其他人去做簽證的這樣的一個動作然後他的支出雖然董事會沒有可是過去出國參訪這些很多次的這樣子尤其去了可能十幾二十天那這些費用又是誰支教育部到底知不知道如果不知道的話那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受說那這報告到底講的都好像沒什麼太大問題可是我們\n\n15\n00:05:23,769 --> 00:05:36,755\n看到的問題點好像跟你這邊問題點不太一樣我們可以再深入的查查所以這個可不可以針對教育部這個報告可不可以下一個針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我好那下一頁\n\n16\n00:05:40,643 --> 00:05:56,104\n那再問次長有評鑑嗎因為第三條規定財團法人評鑑結果甲等或80分以上的這是衛福部說你要有這樣才可以才可以拿到許可證那請問一下教育部你有評鑑\n\n17\n00:05:58,422 --> 00:06:19,370\n沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到這許可?因為初期第一次的許可他必須要有財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或80分以上所以先問次長有評鑑嗎?你們有嗎?沒有好來那就問衛福部沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到許可?\n\n18\n00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:40,635\n因為那時候有評鑑那請提出評鑑結果給我我講的是教育部的評鑑喔不是因為教育部剛剛回答沒有評鑑喔對我們有實力查核沒有評鑑對可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上所以如果教育部沒有評鑑那請問一下衛福部怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的就是說有評鑑嗎\n\n19\n00:06:44,654 --> 00:07:09,314\n我時間有限所以是不是提出你們如果講有就告訴我拿出證據來告訴我說有這個評鑑評鑑結果因為有要80分或評鑑假等可是剛剛教育部講說沒有評鑑的確事實上基金會文教基金會幾乎都是沒有評鑑所以我不知道怎麼去拿到這個假等或80分以上才會讓他可以履可下一頁\n\n20\n00:07:11,201 --> 00:07:29,305\n再來就是問衛福部那收出養這個後續要持續拿到評鑑結果才可以繼續拿到許可所以不知道就是衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎幾年我看到是三年要評鑑一次27條是講三年要一次那評鑑\n\n21\n00:07:32,705 --> 00:07:37,209\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就«出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n\n22\n00:07:56,383 --> 00:08:19,510\n如果他事實上有發生額虐保姆被停權了他帶這個孩子保姆被停權他移送到下一個保姆家結果他繼續可以拿到你許可證為什麼所以可不可以一樣夾等怎麼來的請衛福部提供評鑑報告他告訴我這三個時間序否則我要一一個把個案都公布來看到底發生了什麼事\n\n23\n00:08:22,225 --> 00:08:29,571\n請一周可以嗎?我剛講包含教育部跟衛福部都把這些東西資料相關資料給我以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8088\t9910\t社安網有缺失,我們要看怎麼來補動\n24557\t49729\t所以是不是收出養管理辦法應該要去做檢討了那我們就回來看想問的幾件事情因為你本來就定有這個所謂兒少收出養媒合服務者的許可跟管理辦法那它第三條的第二項明確的是說要經目的事業主管機關同意那如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部那請問一下社家署有取得\n50495\t71513\t那個教育部這個同意書嗎?應該如果以財團法人來說的話教育部是主管機關我們才是那你有沒有請就他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嗎?因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意嗎?在申請的時候他們有檢討這個教育部的同意\n75004\t75445\t這個辦法是93年、101年、104年\n102386\t122612\t那先問一下衛福部為什麼因為在101年的時候同意文教事業獨獨目前這樣看起來8個機構過去12個也一樣就只有兒童福利聯盟是文教所以先問部長說為什麼是文教事業可以因為他的目的就是不相同啊\n124332\t143113\t因為應該是說這是一個歷史的緣故啦那兒童福利聯盟它成立是早於你兩個部會在管理的時候就會沒辦法通題嘛所以不知道就當初可不可以告訴我當初為什麼會要維教試驗因為它很早就成立而且就開始有做這一方面的工作\n143914\t173634\t那我們在訂101年在訂的時候就是我們承認說他算是既有的工作做得還算順利所以我們就把他納進來但是他是文教基金的這個沒有好那我再問次長一下齁次長齁因為這是你們自己訂的嘛齁就是說如果教育部審查教育事務財產法設立許可他要辦你們本部主管業務的公益性教育事務那你今天的報告裡面也特別提喔\n174174\t182018\t他的工作人員有社工有308人你對社工的流程、社工的智能這些東西貴不了解嗎?你要管理他欸\n184878\t210163\t的確了,它80年成立的時候它是以文教基因會來成立但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主我先問說你們自己對社工的流程社工的資能要掌握的話有辦法嗎?可是你是它的主管機關為什麼它還是存在可是它做的都是社會福利業務非你們文教因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣講它事實上是要\n211448\t235808\t要做的事實上是你們跟你們目的事業有關係的可是好像看起來不是啊他只有很少很少的一部分為什麼教育部不去啟動去處理這件事情呢因為加上我覺得次長這邊順便一遍問你這個檢討報告我實在是也是不是很難接受你知不知道他的董事會裡邊有會計師那到底他的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證\n240071\t245876\t二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n261645\t280221\t因為一棟一棟買,然後都買的事實上是比較對,它內湖總部有在五年前買了一棟,將近四億那去年在台中買了一棟五層樓的大概九千八百萬還有基隆還有其他,我想可是這邊都看不到相關的資料說到底整個狀態會是什麼我說社福機構當然為了\n284324\t284565\t主席\n293766\t321801\t還有我剛剛講會計師簽證是他自己的董事在簽證還是事實上是有其他人去做簽證的這樣的一個動作然後他的支出雖然董事會沒有可是過去出國參訪這些很多次的這樣子尤其去了可能十幾二十天那這些費用又是誰支教育部到底知不知道如果不知道的話那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受說那這報告到底講的都好像沒什麼太大問題可是我們\n323769\t336755\t看到的問題點好像跟你這邊問題點不太一樣我們可以再深入的查查所以這個可不可以針對教育部這個報告可不可以下一個針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我好那下一頁\n340643\t356104\t那再問次長有評鑑嗎因為第三條規定財團法人評鑑結果甲等或80分以上的這是衛福部說你要有這樣才可以才可以拿到許可證那請問一下教育部你有評鑑\n358422\t379370\t沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到這許可?因為初期第一次的許可他必須要有財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或80分以上所以先問次長有評鑑嗎?你們有嗎?沒有好來那就問衛福部沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到許可?\n381260\t400635\t因為那時候有評鑑那請提出評鑑結果給我我講的是教育部的評鑑喔不是因為教育部剛剛回答沒有評鑑喔對我們有實力查核沒有評鑑對可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上所以如果教育部沒有評鑑那請問一下衛福部怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的就是說有評鑑嗎\n404654\t429314\t我時間有限 所以是不是提出 你們如果講有就告訴我 拿出證據來告訴我說有這個評鑑評鑑結果 因為有要80分或評鑑假等可是剛剛教育部講說沒有評鑑 的確事實上基金會 文教基金會幾乎都是沒有評鑑所以我不知道怎麼去拿到這個假等或80分以上才會讓他可以履可 下一頁\n431201\t449305\t再來就是問衛福部那收出養這個後續要持續拿到評鑑結果才可以繼續拿到許可所以不知道就是衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎幾年我看到是三年要評鑑一次27條是講三年要一次那評鑑\n452705\t457209\t二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n476383\t499510\t如果他事實上有發生額虐保姆被停權了他帶這個孩子保姆被停權他移送到下一個保姆家結果他繼續可以拿到你許可證為什麼所以可不可以一樣夾等怎麼來的請衛福部提供評鑑報告他告訴我這三個時間序否則我要一一個把個案都公布來看到底發生了什麼事\n502225\t509571\t請一周可以嗎?我剛講包含教育部跟衛福部都把這些東西資料相關資料給我以上謝謝\n","txt":"社安網有缺失,我們要看怎麼來補動\n所以是不是收出養管理辦法應該要去做檢討了那我們就回來看想問的幾件事情因為你本來就定有這個所謂兒少收出養媒合服務者的許可跟管理辦法那它第三條的第二項明確的是說要經目的事業主管機關同意那如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部那請問一下社家署有取得\n那個教育部這個同意書嗎?應該如果以財團法人來說的話教育部是主管機關我們才是那你有沒有請就他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嗎?因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意嗎?在申請的時候他們有檢討這個教育部的同意\n這個辦法是93年、101年、104年\n那先問一下衛福部為什麼因為在101年的時候同意文教事業獨獨目前這樣看起來8個機構過去12個也一樣就只有兒童福利聯盟是文教所以先問部長說為什麼是文教事業可以因為他的目的就是不相同啊\n因為應該是說這是一個歷史的緣故啦那兒童福利聯盟它成立是早於你兩個部會在管理的時候就會沒辦法通題嘛所以不知道就當初可不可以告訴我當初為什麼會要維教試驗因為它很早就成立而且就開始有做這一方面的工作\n那我們在訂101年在訂的時候就是我們承認說他算是既有的工作做得還算順利所以我們就把他納進來但是他是文教基金的這個沒有好那我再問次長一下齁次長齁因為這是你們自己訂的嘛齁就是說如果教育部審查教育事務財產法設立許可他要辦你們本部主管業務的公益性教育事務那你今天的報告裡面也特別提喔\n他的工作人員有社工有308人你對社工的流程、社工的智能這些東西貴不了解嗎?你要管理他欸\n的確了,它80年成立的時候它是以文教基因會來成立但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主我先問說你們自己對社工的流程社工的資能要掌握的話有辦法嗎?可是你是它的主管機關為什麼它還是存在可是它做的都是社會福利業務非你們文教因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣講它事實上是要\n要做的事實上是你們跟你們目的事業有關係的可是好像看起來不是啊他只有很少很少的一部分為什麼教育部不去啟動去處理這件事情呢因為加上我覺得次長這邊順便一遍問你這個檢討報告我實在是也是不是很難接受你知不知道他的董事會裡邊有會計師那到底他的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n因為一棟一棟買,然後都買的事實上是比較對,它內湖總部有在五年前買了一棟,將近四億那去年在台中買了一棟五層樓的大概九千八百萬還有基隆還有其他,我想可是這邊都看不到相關的資料說到底整個狀態會是什麼我說社福機構當然為了\n主席\n還有我剛剛講會計師簽證是他自己的董事在簽證還是事實上是有其他人去做簽證的這樣的一個動作然後他的支出雖然董事會沒有可是過去出國參訪這些很多次的這樣子尤其去了可能十幾二十天那這些費用又是誰支教育部到底知不知道如果不知道的話那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受說那這報告到底講的都好像沒什麼太大問題可是我們\n看到的問題點好像跟你這邊問題點不太一樣我們可以再深入的查查所以這個可不可以針對教育部這個報告可不可以下一個針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我好那下一頁\n那再問次長有評鑑嗎因為第三條規定財團法人評鑑結果甲等或80分以上的這是衛福部說你要有這樣才可以才可以拿到許可證那請問一下教育部你有評鑑\n沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到這許可?因為初期第一次的許可他必須要有財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或80分以上所以先問次長有評鑑嗎?你們有嗎?沒有好來那就問衛福部沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到許可?\n因為那時候有評鑑那請提出評鑑結果給我我講的是教育部的評鑑喔不是因為教育部剛剛回答沒有評鑑喔對我們有實力查核沒有評鑑對可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上所以如果教育部沒有評鑑那請問一下衛福部怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的就是說有評鑑嗎\n我時間有限 所以是不是提出 你們如果講有就告訴我 拿出證據來告訴我說有這個評鑑評鑑結果 因為有要80分或評鑑假等可是剛剛教育部講說沒有評鑑 的確事實上基金會 文教基金會幾乎都是沒有評鑑所以我不知道怎麼去拿到這個假等或80分以上才會讓他可以履可 下一頁\n再來就是問衛福部那收出養這個後續要持續拿到評鑑結果才可以繼續拿到許可所以不知道就是衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎幾年我看到是三年要評鑑一次27條是講三年要一次那評鑑\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n如果他事實上有發生額虐保姆被停權了他帶這個孩子保姆被停權他移送到下一個保姆家結果他繼續可以拿到你許可證為什麼所以可不可以一樣夾等怎麼來的請衛福部提供評鑑報告他告訴我這三個時間序否則我要一一個把個案都公布來看到底發生了什麼事\n請一周可以嗎?我剛講包含教育部跟衛福部都把這些東西資料相關資料給我以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.088 --> 00:09.910\n社安網有缺失,我們要看怎麼來補動\n\n00:24.557 --> 00:49.729\n所以是不是收出養管理辦法應該要去做檢討了那我們就回來看想問的幾件事情因為你本來就定有這個所謂兒少收出養媒合服務者的許可跟管理辦法那它第三條的第二項明確的是說要經目的事業主管機關同意那如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部那請問一下社家署有取得\n\n00:50.495 --> 01:11.513\n那個教育部這個同意書嗎?應該如果以財團法人來說的話教育部是主管機關我們才是那你有沒有請就他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嗎?因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意嗎?在申請的時候他們有檢討這個教育部的同意\n\n01:15.004 --> 01:15.445\n這個辦法是93年、101年、104年\n\n01:42.386 --> 02:02.612\n那先問一下衛福部為什麼因為在101年的時候同意文教事業獨獨目前這樣看起來8個機構過去12個也一樣就只有兒童福利聯盟是文教所以先問部長說為什麼是文教事業可以因為他的目的就是不相同啊\n\n02:04.332 --> 02:23.113\n因為應該是說這是一個歷史的緣故啦那兒童福利聯盟它成立是早於你兩個部會在管理的時候就會沒辦法通題嘛所以不知道就當初可不可以告訴我當初為什麼會要維教試驗因為它很早就成立而且就開始有做這一方面的工作\n\n02:23.914 --> 02:53.634\n那我們在訂101年在訂的時候就是我們承認說他算是既有的工作做得還算順利所以我們就把他納進來但是他是文教基金的這個沒有好那我再問次長一下齁次長齁因為這是你們自己訂的嘛齁就是說如果教育部審查教育事務財產法設立許可他要辦你們本部主管業務的公益性教育事務那你今天的報告裡面也特別提喔\n\n02:54.174 --> 03:02.018\n他的工作人員有社工有308人你對社工的流程、社工的智能這些東西貴不了解嗎?你要管理他欸\n\n03:04.878 --> 03:30.163\n的確了,它80年成立的時候它是以文教基因會來成立但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主我先問說你們自己對社工的流程社工的資能要掌握的話有辦法嗎?可是你是它的主管機關為什麼它還是存在可是它做的都是社會福利業務非你們文教因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣講它事實上是要\n\n03:31.448 --> 03:55.808\n要做的事實上是你們跟你們目的事業有關係的可是好像看起來不是啊他只有很少很少的一部分為什麼教育部不去啟動去處理這件事情呢因為加上我覺得次長這邊順便一遍問你這個檢討報告我實在是也是不是很難接受你知不知道他的董事會裡邊有會計師那到底他的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證\n\n04:00.071 --> 04:05.876\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就«出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n\n04:21.645 --> 04:40.221\n因為一棟一棟買,然後都買的事實上是比較對,它內湖總部有在五年前買了一棟,將近四億那去年在台中買了一棟五層樓的大概九千八百萬還有基隆還有其他,我想可是這邊都看不到相關的資料說到底整個狀態會是什麼我說社福機構當然為了\n\n04:44.324 --> 04:44.565\n主席\n\n04:53.766 --> 05:21.801\n還有我剛剛講會計師簽證是他自己的董事在簽證還是事實上是有其他人去做簽證的這樣的一個動作然後他的支出雖然董事會沒有可是過去出國參訪這些很多次的這樣子尤其去了可能十幾二十天那這些費用又是誰支教育部到底知不知道如果不知道的話那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受說那這報告到底講的都好像沒什麼太大問題可是我們\n\n05:23.769 --> 05:36.755\n看到的問題點好像跟你這邊問題點不太一樣我們可以再深入的查查所以這個可不可以針對教育部這個報告可不可以下一個針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我好那下一頁\n\n05:40.643 --> 05:56.104\n那再問次長有評鑑嗎因為第三條規定財團法人評鑑結果甲等或80分以上的這是衛福部說你要有這樣才可以才可以拿到許可證那請問一下教育部你有評鑑\n\n05:58.422 --> 06:19.370\n沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到這許可?因為初期第一次的許可他必須要有財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或80分以上所以先問次長有評鑑嗎?你們有嗎?沒有好來那就問衛福部沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到許可?\n\n06:21.260 --> 06:40.635\n因為那時候有評鑑那請提出評鑑結果給我我講的是教育部的評鑑喔不是因為教育部剛剛回答沒有評鑑喔對我們有實力查核沒有評鑑對可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上所以如果教育部沒有評鑑那請問一下衛福部怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的就是說有評鑑嗎\n\n06:44.654 --> 07:09.314\n我時間有限所以是不是提出你們如果講有就告訴我拿出證據來告訴我說有這個評鑑評鑑結果因為有要80分或評鑑假等可是剛剛教育部講說沒有評鑑的確事實上基金會文教基金會幾乎都是沒有評鑑所以我不知道怎麼去拿到這個假等或80分以上才會讓他可以履可下一頁\n\n07:11.201 --> 07:29.305\n再來就是問衛福部那收出養這個後續要持續拿到評鑑結果才可以繼續拿到許可所以不知道就是衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎幾年我看到是三年要評鑑一次27條是講三年要一次那評鑑\n\n07:32.705 --> 07:37.209\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就«出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》\n\n07:56.383 --> 08:19.510\n如果他事實上有發生額虐保姆被停權了他帶這個孩子保姆被停權他移送到下一個保姆家結果他繼續可以拿到你許可證為什麼所以可不可以一樣夾等怎麼來的請衛福部提供評鑑報告他告訴我這三個時間序否則我要一一個把個案都公布來看到底發生了什麼事\n\n08:22.225 --> 08:29.571\n請一周可以嗎?我剛講包含教育部跟衛福部都把這些東西資料相關資料給我以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.088,"end":9.91,"text":"社安網有缺失,我們要看怎麼來補動"},{"start":24.557,"end":49.729,"text":"所以是不是收出養管理辦法應該要去做檢討了那我們就回來看想問的幾件事情因為你本來就定有這個所謂兒少收出養媒合服務者的許可跟管理辦法那它第三條的第二項明確的是說要經目的事業主管機關同意那如果這個目的事業主管機關是教育部那請問一下社家署有取得"},{"start":50.495,"end":71.513,"text":"那個教育部這個同意書嗎?應該如果以財團法人來說的話教育部是主管機關我們才是那你有沒有請就他們有沒有拿到教育部的同意書嗎?因為你說要目的事業主管機關同意嗎?在申請的時候他們有檢討這個教育部的同意"},{"start":75.004,"end":75.445,"text":"這個辦法是93年、101年、104年"},{"start":102.386,"end":122.612,"text":"那先問一下衛福部為什麼因為在101年的時候同意文教事業獨獨目前這樣看起來8個機構過去12個也一樣就只有兒童福利聯盟是文教所以先問部長說為什麼是文教事業可以因為他的目的就是不相同啊"},{"start":124.332,"end":143.113,"text":"因為應該是說這是一個歷史的緣故啦那兒童福利聯盟它成立是早於你兩個部會在管理的時候就會沒辦法通題嘛所以不知道就當初可不可以告訴我當初為什麼會要維教試驗因為它很早就成立而且就開始有做這一方面的工作"},{"start":143.914,"end":173.634,"text":"那我們在訂101年在訂的時候就是我們承認說他算是既有的工作做得還算順利所以我們就把他納進來但是他是文教基金的這個沒有好那我再問次長一下齁次長齁因為這是你們自己訂的嘛齁就是說如果教育部審查教育事務財產法設立許可他要辦你們本部主管業務的公益性教育事務那你今天的報告裡面也特別提喔"},{"start":174.174,"end":182.018,"text":"他的工作人員有社工有308人你對社工的流程、社工的智能這些東西貴不了解嗎?你要管理他欸"},{"start":184.878,"end":210.163,"text":"的確了,它80年成立的時候它是以文教基因會來成立但它涉及的業務是以兒童福利為主我先問說你們自己對社工的流程社工的資能要掌握的話有辦法嗎?可是你是它的主管機關為什麼它還是存在可是它做的都是社會福利業務非你們文教因為你們自己的監督管理辦法也是這樣講它事實上是要"},{"start":211.448,"end":235.808,"text":"要做的事實上是你們跟你們目的事業有關係的可是好像看起來不是啊他只有很少很少的一部分為什麼教育部不去啟動去處理這件事情呢因為加上我覺得次長這邊順便一遍問你這個檢討報告我實在是也是不是很難接受你知不知道他的董事會裡邊有會計師那到底他的簽證報告是這個會計事務所簽證"},{"start":240.071,"end":245.876,"text":"二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》"},{"start":261.645,"end":280.221,"text":"因為一棟一棟買,然後都買的事實上是比較對,它內湖總部有在五年前買了一棟,將近四億那去年在台中買了一棟五層樓的大概九千八百萬還有基隆還有其他,我想可是這邊都看不到相關的資料說到底整個狀態會是什麼我說社福機構當然為了"},{"start":284.324,"end":284.565,"text":"主席"},{"start":293.766,"end":321.801,"text":"還有我剛剛講會計師簽證是他自己的董事在簽證還是事實上是有其他人去做簽證的這樣的一個動作然後他的支出雖然董事會沒有可是過去出國參訪這些很多次的這樣子尤其去了可能十幾二十天那這些費用又是誰支教育部到底知不知道如果不知道的話那你寫的這些報告我都不太能接受說那這報告到底講的都好像沒什麼太大問題可是我們"},{"start":323.769,"end":336.755,"text":"看到的問題點好像跟你這邊問題點不太一樣我們可以再深入的查查所以這個可不可以針對教育部這個報告可不可以下一個針對我剛剛列的那幾點提出檢討報告給我好那下一頁"},{"start":340.643,"end":356.104,"text":"那再問次長有評鑑嗎因為第三條規定財團法人評鑑結果甲等或80分以上的這是衛福部說你要有這樣才可以才可以拿到許可證那請問一下教育部你有評鑑"},{"start":358.422,"end":379.37,"text":"沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到這許可?因為初期第一次的許可他必須要有財團法人評鑑結果為甲等或80分以上所以先問次長有評鑑嗎?你們有嗎?沒有好來那就問衛福部沒有評鑑為什麼他可以拿到許可?"},{"start":381.26,"end":400.635,"text":"因為那時候有評鑑那請提出評鑑結果給我我講的是教育部的評鑑喔不是因為教育部剛剛回答沒有評鑑喔對我們有實力查核沒有評鑑對可是這個要評鑑甲等或80分以上所以如果教育部沒有評鑑那請問一下衛福部怎麼拿到那個評鑑結果的就是說有評鑑嗎"},{"start":404.654,"end":429.314,"text":"我時間有限 所以是不是提出 你們如果講有就告訴我 拿出證據來告訴我說有這個評鑑評鑑結果 因為有要80分或評鑑假等可是剛剛教育部講說沒有評鑑 的確事實上基金會 文教基金會幾乎都是沒有評鑑所以我不知道怎麼去拿到這個假等或80分以上才會讓他可以履可 下一頁"},{"start":431.201,"end":449.305,"text":"再來就是問衛福部那收出養這個後續要持續拿到評鑑結果才可以繼續拿到許可所以不知道就是衛福部有辦理評鑑嗎幾年我看到是三年要評鑑一次27條是講三年要一次那評鑑"},{"start":452.705,"end":457.209,"text":"二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就 «出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告》"},{"start":476.383,"end":499.51,"text":"如果他事實上有發生額虐保姆被停權了他帶這個孩子保姆被停權他移送到下一個保姆家結果他繼續可以拿到你許可證為什麼所以可不可以一樣夾等怎麼來的請衛福部提供評鑑報告他告訴我這三個時間序否則我要一一個把個案都公布來看到底發生了什麼事"},{"start":502.225,"end":509.571,"text":"請一周可以嗎?我剛講包含教育部跟衛福部都把這些東西資料相關資料給我以上謝謝"}]}}}}