{"id":150592,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150592","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdfb8da9dc6c2bb3446b83f090e56da198af8ba9b0039caa7a680c1356d47cdd5255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:21:03 - 10:33:27","影片長度":"00:12:24","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「社會安全網缺失檢討及具體改進作法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結案18案（報告事項）。【第18案，如經復議則不予處理】\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":744,"end_time":"2024-03-28T10:33:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T10:21:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1185,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時21分）謝謝主席。主席，我們是不是請薛部長？"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，我要先請教你，發生了這個重大的食安事件，這次的事件真的很嚴重，到目前為止，已經有兩個人死亡，又新增一名是臺南的，已經有五個人在搶救，剛剛的新聞傳出，目前通報的總共有14例。對於這麼重大的食安事件，我想問一下部長，到目前為止，中央有組成專案小組，大家跨部會積極查緝，然後瞭解原因是什麼嗎？現在我必須坦白講，所有的人都人心惶惶，對外食感到非常不安全，因為連百貨公司美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題，對食安的焦慮和恐懼瀰漫在大家的心裡。做為中央主管機關，是不是可以用最快的速度釐清原因，讓社會各界可以安心？到目前為止，你們有跟法務部組成跨部會小組嗎？因為現在法務部、北檢、地檢也都動起來，要去查緝，這個部分你們組起來了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：第一個，我們26日的時候就由食藥署、疾管署和北市衛生局、法務部民生小組（北檢）開始稽查。"],["王委員育敏：你們是稽查？我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎？到目前為止有沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：先聯合稽查。然後在昨天晚上，我們召集照顧這些病人的醫院的臨床醫師和6位毒物專家，還有環境部的化學署，以及我們自己的疾管署、食藥署，還有法務部法醫研究所，一起討論可能的原因是什麼。目前獲致一個初步的方向，我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做一些相關的檢測。"],["王委員育敏：所以到目前為止，你們是有一些各自進行的事項，但是並沒有一個聯合的工作小組，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組，但事實上已經有把相關的這些……"],["王委員育敏：我知道，我具體建議，這個事情非同小可，因為是過去沒有發生過的，而且是一個非常重大的事件，已經衝擊到國人對食安的信心，我認為中央應該跟地方，還要跨部會組成一個聯合專案小組，就像你們現在運作的模式，這當中還涉及毒物、各項檢測、解剖的分析、向上追查這些食物的來源，還有很重要的是，現在不是只有臺北市有案例，最新傳出來的是臺南，現在也已經有兩例……"],["薛部長瑞元：但他們是在同一個地方用餐的。"],["王委員育敏：對，都在同一個地方用餐，所以表示它已經跨出到其他縣市，不只是臺北市，所以我認為這件事情衛福部應該趕快跟院長陳報，由一個召集人趕快把這些相關的、牽涉到的部會統統都把它call在一起，然後很密集的開會討論，一有什麼訊息，大家要互通有無，用一個最緊急的狀態來因應這次的事件，我覺得這才是正辦。我是具體這樣建議，我希望……"],["薛部長瑞元：好，我們來研議；我會跟上面報告。"],["王委員育敏：對！第一個是這個。","第二個，這次在整個通報的機制上面，看起來大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足，即使中國大陸曾經發生這樣一個中毒事件，但是在臺灣，因為過去沒有案例，所以在第一時間，你看它那整個時間序，其實是拉得比較長的，然後是透過拼湊的方式，而不是透過原來衛福部擬的通報機制去發現的，就是慢慢拼湊起來，才發現：哇！原來這個都是同樣這一家寶林茶室的東西有問題。所以我覺得這次這樣的情況衛福部也要去檢討，就是可能還有很多是我們忽略的，而這一類型可能就是過去忽略的，現在連這個標準品其實都沒有，表示我們過去針對這一類型並沒有做任何的準備，即使對岸有案例。所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要去通盤看一下，還有哪些類型可能其他國家有在發生，但是臺灣因為過去沒有，可能就比較鬆懈，覺得不會發生在我們這邊，但這次的案例我覺得真的是滿嚴重的。"],["薛部長瑞元：現在比較可疑的是米酵菌酸，這一個部分當然中國大陸那邊有case發生過，但是臺灣沒有，而可能產生這一個所謂的BA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口，所以……"],["王委員育敏：是，但是我們發生了！所以這就更吊詭了！就是一定要去探究……"],["薛部長瑞元：現在只是初步說這個可能性最高……"],["王委員育敏：米酵菌酸的可能性最高嘛！對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，但是還沒有檢驗出來，所以我們不能說……"],["王委員育敏：不能百分之百斷定嘛！但是所有的中毒症狀看起來很像嘛！對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，但是也不排除有其他的可能，所以我們其他的檢驗還是在進行。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望整個中央和地方用一個比較緊急的、重大的態度來面對這件事情，而且要集合各方的力量，這不是誰的責任的問題，而是要共同來面對這次的重大食安事件。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：第三個我要講的是，這次傳出那個業者預計那邊要收了，他的保險聽說是沒有保的……"],["薛部長瑞元：到期啦！"],["王委員育敏：這個部分對於現在已經發生有的人還在搶救、有的人已經死亡，將來怎麼辦？在沒有保險的情況底下，這個負責人如果說他沒有保險、這麼重大、他賠不出來，那他們怎麼辦？真的很無辜耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：因為這個是企業責任的問題，它應該去投保來cover他的責任，所以……"],["王委員育敏：因為按照你們的法令，其實是要投保的！"],["薛部長瑞元：對！"],["王委員育敏：對啊！坦白講，現在其實有一個漏洞，他預計這邊要關掉了，投保期就沒有到他要關掉的那一天，而是提前，譬如說10月約到了就關起來，但是繼續營業，這樣主管機關也不會知道啊！因為這不像汽車強制責任險，就是投保一定要上傳，然後主管機關就會知道，但是現在完全不需要，所以坦白講你們其實也不知道。你們現在也不知道有多少食品業者在做這個事情──其實他保險已經到期卻沒有繼續加保，你們都不知道，我覺得這是一個漏洞，應該也要好好地去檢討，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["王委員育敏：另外一個我要提醒的是小林紅麴毒素的部分，最新消息是日本已經有4個人因為慢性中毒死亡了，而臺灣其實有一些食品都有用到這個原料，這也是另外一個很重大的食安事件。我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡。這件事情已經有人跟本辦投訴，他買的那個產品是VITABOX，他自己看產品上面的標示就有小林的紅麴，但服務專線打不通，然後打了1919沒有用，叫他再去轉1950。我要問的是現在要求業者發現要下架，民眾如果手上有產品，看起來有點投訴無門，官網電話打不通，1919叫他自己再去打1950，消費者的權益怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：我簡單報告，目前小林的產品沒有直接進來，但是原料有。"],["王委員育敏：對，原料。"],["薛部長瑞元：原料是兩家有進口，這兩家，一家叫三合興，配送給16家的下游業者去製造產品；另外一家叫和司特，配送給39家去做產品，其中有兩家是重複的，所以算起來一共是53家下游廠商。下游廠商自主通報的有12家，還沒有通報的有41家，但是它會自己去下架、管理。目前民眾會關心的是，如果吃到了，當然希望可以退貨。我們會來要求業者必須……"],["王委員育敏：因為這個民眾說他是透過線上購買，然後服務專線打不通。"],["薛部長瑞元：專區已經有公布相關7家廠商的退換貨機制，其實有專線電話在處理，這在食藥署網站裡面的專區是有的，可以自己去查。"],["王委員育敏：但現在1919可以提供什麼協助？打去食安專線的話，他說他也沒辦法，你自己蒐集證據，打1950。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們是1919，這是第一個。第二個就是有關退貨，打到1919，我們還是會請他去看這個廠商的退貨專線是哪一個，我們會轉……"],["王委員育敏：如果有爭議呢？廠商沒有受理呢？你們的窗口是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：還是1919。"],["王委員育敏：1919會處理嘛？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：好，要確定。因為已經有人投訴，他說總機就直接再轉1950，要他自己去處理，打1950，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["王委員育敏：這個一定要處理。最後是今天的議題──社安網，我要問的是世界展望會說要退出家庭寄養服務，顯然在這次事件當中的獵巫效應讓一些機構開始觀望了，開始退出這個保護系統。在這樣的情況底下，你們準備如何因應？當機構的服務量減少，表示有更多的安置兒童沒有辦法得到最完整的服務，因為比較下來，在目前的安置體系當中，寄養的系統是最完整的。當世界展望會要退出的時候，你們的因應措施是什麼？他們有可能再回來接嗎？還是一定完全不可能了？"],["薛部長瑞元：世展會很早之前就已經說它要退出了，不再繼續提供寄養家庭的服務。"],["王委員育敏：對，所以你們的備案是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：雖然它沒有要接，但是寄養家庭還在，所以我們現在第一步比較……"],["王委員育敏：因為有的好像3月就退了。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以第一個就是還是要有人來接手本來在世展會的這些寄養家庭，納入它的……"],["王委員育敏：都找到了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前正在處理。"],["王委員育敏：所以還沒找到？"],["薛部長瑞元：第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越少。"],["王委員育敏：一直在下降？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：這真的是一個危機。以前承辦寄養的機構就一直覺得寄養家庭招募不易，發生這次事件之後，可能有一些人也會退出，他覺得風險很高啊！我覺得事後衛福部應該通盤來整理……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有錯。"],["王委員育敏：也就是這一些安置系統到底缺什麼、需要什麼樣的支持？你要給大家足夠的信心，否則每一個安置系統都可能會出事，爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉，我覺得這個對社安網才真的是非常大的挑戰，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員。","接下來請蘇清泉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":526,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","林淑芬","陳菁徽","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","王正旭","盧縣一","郭昱晴","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐巧芯","羅智強","洪孟楷","李彥秀","李坤城","陳培瑜","張雅琳","陳瑩","劉建國","黃珊珊","楊曜","邱鎮軍","張啓楷","陳冠廷"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132102_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「社會安全網缺失檢討及具體改進作法」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北\n市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、處理中華民國113年\n度中央政府總預算決議有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結案 18 案（報告事項）。【專題報告綜合詢\n答】","agenda_id":"1132102_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150592","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150592","tool":"pyannote","id":"150592-pyannote"},"job_id":"7RmjaGlGTKJh0ci2","queued_at":"2024-06-01 17:30:16","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 17:31:34","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150592"},{"time":"2024-06-01 17:31:34","msg":"downloading 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,049\n議員發言\n\n2\n00:00:18,260 --> 00:00:35,782\n委員好部長好部長我要先請教你發生的這個重大的食安事件因為這次我們看到這次事件真的是很嚴重因為到目前為止已經有兩個人死亡又新增一名是台南的已經有五個人在搶救\n\n3\n00:00:36,403 --> 00:01:01,590\n那目前通報剛剛新聞傳出來的是總共有14例這麼重大的一個死案事件我想問一下部長到目前為止中央這邊有組成專案小組積極的跨部會大家來查緝然後來了解知道原因是什麼嗎因為現在我必須坦白講所有的人都人心惶惶就是對於外使感到非常的不安全因為會覺得連\n\n4\n00:01:02,970 --> 00:01:27,860\n拜訪公司的美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題大家在食安上的焦慮跟恐懼我覺得這個是瀰漫在大家的心裡所以作為主管機關中央主管機關是不是可以用最快的速度來釐清那個原因讓社會各界可以安心到目前為止你們有跟法務部組成一個跨部會的小組嗎因為現在法務部這個\n\n5\n00:01:29,401 --> 00:01:49,874\n北檢、地檢也都動起來,要去查緝,那這個部分你們組起來了嗎?第一個我們26號的時候,那就由食藥署、疾管署跟北市衛生局法務部的民生小組叫北檢,那邊就開始做這個稽查\n\n6\n00:01:50,774 --> 00:02:09,949\n你們是稽查?我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎?到目前為止有沒有?先做聯合稽查然後在昨天晚上我們有召集了照顧這些病人的醫院臨床的醫師還有六位的毒物專家\n\n7\n00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:36,404\n還有環境部的化學署還有我們自己集管署、食藥署法務部的法醫研究所一起來討論這個可能的原因是什麼目前的話大概或是一個初步的方向我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做相關的一些檢測\n\n8\n00:02:37,645 --> 00:02:56,919\n所以到目前為止你們是各自有一些各自進行的事項但是並沒有有一個聯合的工作小組對不對?沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組部長我真的具體我知道我具體的建議這個事情非同小可因為是過去沒有發生而且是一個非常重大的事件\n\n9\n00:02:57,339 --> 00:03:02,881\n而且已經衝擊到國人對於食安的信心我認為中央應該跟地方還要跨部會的組成一個聯合專案小組就像你們現在在運作模式這當中還涉及到毒物各項的檢測還有就是解剖的分析還有就是向上去追查這些食物的來源還有很重要的是現在不是只有臺北市有案例最新傳出來的是臺南現在也已經有兩例但是他在同一個地方用餐了對\n\n10\n00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:50,131\n所以表示他已經是跨出去縣市也不只是臺北市所以我認為這件事情這個衛福部應該趕快跟院長呈報就有一個召集人趕快把在這些相關的涉及到的這些部會的人通通都把他摳在一起然後很密集的開會討論一有什麼訊息大家互通有無用一個最緊急的一個狀態\n\n11\n00:03:51,812 --> 00:04:09,964\n來因應這次的事件我覺得這個才是正辦我是具體這樣子建議第一個是這一個第二個就是說這次在整個通報的機制上面看起來是大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足即使中國大陸曾經發生這麼重大的這樣的一個\n\n12\n00:04:13,950 --> 00:04:41,611\n這個中毒事件但是在臺灣因為過去沒有案例所以在第一時間你看他那個整個時間去其實是拉得比較長的然後他是透過拼湊的方式而不是透過原來衛福部的你的通報機制裡面就是去發現的就是慢慢拼湊起來才發現說哇原來這個都是來自於同樣在一家保齡茶室的這個東西有問題所以我覺得這一次這樣的一個情況可能衛福部也要去檢討就是說\n\n13\n00:04:42,552 --> 00:05:05,241\n很多就是我們可能還有忽略的那這一類型可能就是過去忽略的現在連這個標準品其實都沒有表示過去針對這一類型我們並沒有做任何的準備這樣子即使對岸有案例所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要再去通盤看一下還有哪些類型可能其實其他國家有在發生但是臺灣我們因為過去沒有我們可能就比較鬆懈覺得說不會發生在我們這邊\n\n14\n00:05:07,142 --> 00:05:23,837\n但這次的案例我覺得是真的蠻嚴重的因為現在是比較可疑是米酵菌酸那這一個部分的話當然在中國大陸那邊有case發生過但是台灣沒有而可能產生這一個所謂的VA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口\n\n15\n00:05:25,018 --> 00:05:43,312\n是,但是我們發聲了,所以這就更弔詭了,就是說一定要去看就對了現在只是初步說這個可能性是最高啦米硝菌酸的可能性最高嘛但是還沒有檢驗出來,這個不能說成為…不能百分之百斷定嘛,但是就是他所有的就是他的中毒的症狀看起來很像嘛\n\n16\n00:05:43,812 --> 00:05:46,533\n第三個我要講這次傳出來這個業者他的那個保險\n\n17\n00:06:05,899 --> 00:06:27,011\n他預計他自己那邊要收了,他的保險聽說是沒有保的,那這個部分對於現在已經發生,有的人還在搶救,有人已經死亡,他將來怎麼辦?他的球場就是沒有保險的情況底下,那這個負責人如果說我沒有保險這麼重,但他賠不出來,那他們怎麼辦?真的很無辜欸。\n\n18\n00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:42,933\n所以這個部分的話就是可能要進行因為這個是企業責任的問題企業責任他應該去投保來cover他的這個責任因為按照你們的法令上面其實是要投保的對對啊那他其實\n\n19\n00:06:43,933 --> 00:07:11,459\n現在其實坦白講有個漏洞他預計這邊要關掉的他其實投保期他就沒有到他關掉的那一天他就提前比如說約到了我10月到了我就關起來但我繼續營業那主管機關也不會知道因為他現在其實是不像你的那個汽車強制責任險一樣就是你投保你要上傳然後你就會知道但是他現在是完全不需要所以其實坦白講你們也不知道你們現在不知道有多少食品業者他其實在做這個事情\n\n20\n00:07:12,699 --> 00:07:24,527\n但是他其實是保險已經到了他沒有繼續加保其實都不知道我覺得這個是一個漏洞應該也要好好的去檢討好不好另外一個我要提醒的是那個小林這個他的紅曲毒素這個部分\n\n21\n00:07:28,690 --> 00:07:46,495\n這個最新的消息日本已經死亡4個人了他是慢性中毒他已經死亡4個人了那臺灣其實有些食品的原料都用到他的原料這個也是另外一個很重大的食安事件我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡這個已經有人跟\n\n22\n00:07:47,415 --> 00:08:03,548\n本辦投訴就是說他買的那個產品是vitabox他自己看那個產品上面就是有小林的這個紅曲然後呢服務專線打不通然後呢打了1919沒有用叫他再去轉1950\n\n23\n00:08:05,609 --> 00:08:24,609\n那我要問的是說,現在要求業者發現要下架,民眾如果手上有產品,看起來有點投訴無門啊?官網打不通,1919說你自己再去打1950,怎麼辦?消費者的權益?目前我簡單做個報告,那小林的產品直接進來是沒有\n\n24\n00:08:25,690 --> 00:08:46,301\n但是原料有,原料是兩家,兩家進口這兩家,一家叫三核心,它底下就在配送給16家的下游業者去做製造產品那另外一家叫何斯特,它配送給39家去做產品那其中有兩家是重複的\n\n25\n00:08:47,042 --> 00:09:01,637\n一共53家下游廠商下游廠商自主通報有12家還沒有通報的有41家但是他會自己去做\n\n26\n00:09:02,498 --> 00:09:02,518\n進行專題報\n\n27\n00:09:23,550 --> 00:09:42,322\n服務專線打不通這專區裡面其實有這一個相關的有7家他已經有公布出來的這個退換貨的這個機制有專線的電話在處理在我們的食藥署的專網站裡面的一個專區是有的這可以去查\n\n28\n00:09:43,462 --> 00:09:54,761\n對,那你現在的1999可以提供什麼協助?你的食安專線打去的話,他說我也沒辦法你自己收集證據打1950我們是1919啦,這是第一個那第二個就是說\n\n29\n00:09:56,116 --> 00:10:21,567\n這一個的話如果是有關推貨的話打到1919我們還是會跟請他去看這一個廠商他的推貨的專線是什麼是哪一個我們會轉那如果有爭議呢廠商沒有受理呢你們的窗口是什麼還是19191919會處理嗎對好要確定喔因為是已經有人投訴他說他就再直接總計再轉1950了說你自己處理1950了對啊好不好\n\n30\n00:10:24,889 --> 00:10:32,509\n這一個一定是要處理最後今天的議題社安網我要問的是世界展望會的家庭寄養服務\n\n31\n00:10:33,353 --> 00:10:58,794\n他說他要退出顯然在這次事件當中獵巫的效應讓有一些機構也開始觀望了開始退出這個保護系統在這樣的一個情況底下你們準備如何因應當機構的服務量減少的時候表示我們有更多的安置兒童他沒有辦法拿到一個最完整的服務因為比較下來寄養的系統是最完整的在目前的安置體系當中那當\n\n32\n00:11:00,295 --> 00:11:23,271\n這個世界展望會他要退出的時候,這個的因應措施部長,你們的因應措施是什麼?他們有可能再回來接嗎?還是就一定是完全不可能的?市長會其實他在很早之前的話就已經說他要退出了啦,不再繼續提供這個檢討。那所以你們的備案是什麼?但是他沒有要接,但是那個家庭、寄養家庭還在。\n\n33\n00:11:24,324 --> 00:11:41,635\n所以我們現在第一步比較...因為它有的好像三月就退了喔對所以我們第一個就是說還是要有人來接手本來在市長會的這一些寄養家庭把他納入他的...都找到了嗎目前正在處理\n\n34\n00:11:42,506 --> 00:11:58,522\n所以還沒找到第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越大一直在下降這個真的是一個危機啊以前他們承辦寄養的就一直覺得寄養家庭朝暮不易啊發生這次事件之後可能有一些人也會退出他覺得風險很高啊\n\n35\n00:11:58,962 --> 00:12:20,293\n所以我覺得這個事後整個衛福部應該通盤來整理就是說這一些安置系統他到底缺什麼他需要什麼樣的支持你要給大家足夠的信心否則每一個安置系統可能會出事爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉我覺得這個對我們社工網才是真的是非常大的挑戰好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t49\t議員發言\n18260\t35782\t委員好部長好部長我要先請教你發生的這個重大的食安事件因為這次我們看到這次事件真的是很嚴重因為到目前為止已經有兩個人死亡又新增一名是台南的已經有五個人在搶救\n36403\t61590\t那目前通報剛剛新聞傳出來的是總共有14例這麼重大的一個死案事件我想問一下部長到目前為止中央這邊有組成專案小組積極的跨部會大家來查緝然後來了解知道原因是什麼嗎因為現在我必須坦白講所有的人都人心惶惶就是對於外使感到非常的不安全因為會覺得連\n62970\t87860\t拜訪公司的美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題大家在食安上的焦慮跟恐懼我覺得這個是瀰漫在大家的心裡所以作為主管機關中央主管機關是不是可以用最快的速度來釐清那個原因讓社會各界可以安心到目前為止你們有跟法務部組成一個跨部會的小組嗎因為現在法務部這個\n89401\t109874\t北檢、地檢也都動起來,要去查緝,那這個部分你們組起來了嗎?第一個我們26號的時候,那就由食藥署、疾管署跟北市衛生局法務部的民生小組叫北檢,那邊就開始做這個稽查\n110774\t129949\t你們是稽查?我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎?到目前為止有沒有?先做聯合稽查然後在昨天晚上我們有召集了照顧這些病人的醫院臨床的醫師還有六位的毒物專家\n131570\t156404\t還有環境部的化學署還有我們自己集管署、食藥署法務部的法醫研究所一起來討論這個可能的原因是什麼目前的話大概或是一個初步的方向我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做相關的一些檢測\n157645\t176919\t所以到目前為止你們是各自有一些各自進行的事項但是並沒有有一個聯合的工作小組對不對?沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組部長我真的具體我知道我具體的建議這個事情非同小可因為是過去沒有發生而且是一個非常重大的事件\n177339\t182881\t而且已經衝擊到國人對於食安的信心我認為中央應該跟地方還要跨部會的組成一個聯合專案小組就像你們現在在運作模式這當中還涉及到毒物各項的檢測還有就是解剖的分析還有就是向上去追查這些食物的來源還有很重要的是現在不是只有臺北市有案例最新傳出來的是臺南現在也已經有兩例但是他在同一個地方用餐了對\n205990\t230131\t所以表示他已經是跨出去縣市也不只是臺北市所以我認為這件事情這個衛福部應該趕快跟院長呈報就有一個召集人趕快把在這些相關的涉及到的這些部會的人通通都把他摳在一起然後很密集的開會討論一有什麼訊息大家互通有無用一個最緊急的一個狀態\n231812\t249964\t來因應這次的事件我覺得這個才是正辦我是具體這樣子建議第一個是這一個第二個就是說這次在整個通報的機制上面看起來是大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足即使中國大陸曾經發生這麼重大的這樣的一個\n253950\t281611\t這個中毒事件但是在臺灣因為過去沒有案例所以在第一時間你看他那個整個時間去其實是拉得比較長的然後他是透過拼湊的方式而不是透過原來衛福部的你的通報機制裡面就是去發現的就是慢慢拼湊起來才發現說哇原來這個都是來自於同樣在一家保齡茶室的這個東西有問題所以我覺得這一次這樣的一個情況可能衛福部也要去檢討就是說\n282552\t305241\t很多就是我們可能還有忽略的那這一類型可能就是過去忽略的現在連這個標準品其實都沒有表示過去針對這一類型我們並沒有做任何的準備這樣子即使對岸有案例所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要再去通盤看一下還有哪些類型可能其實其他國家有在發生但是臺灣我們因為過去沒有我們可能就比較鬆懈覺得說不會發生在我們這邊\n307142\t323837\t但這次的案例我覺得是真的蠻嚴重的因為現在是比較可疑是米酵菌酸那這一個部分的話當然在中國大陸那邊有case發生過但是台灣沒有而可能產生這一個所謂的VA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口\n325018\t343312\t是,但是我們發聲了,所以這就更弔詭了,就是說一定要去看就對了現在只是初步說這個可能性是最高啦米硝菌酸的可能性最高嘛但是還沒有檢驗出來,這個不能說成為…不能百分之百斷定嘛,但是就是他所有的就是他的中毒的症狀看起來很像嘛\n343812\t346533\t第三個我要講這次傳出來這個業者他的那個保險\n365899\t387011\t他預計他自己那邊要收了,他的保險聽說是沒有保的,那這個部分對於現在已經發生,有的人還在搶救,有人已經死亡,他將來怎麼辦?他的球場就是沒有保險的情況底下,那這個負責人如果說我沒有保險這麼重,但他賠不出來,那他們怎麼辦?真的很無辜欸。\n388240\t402933\t所以這個部分的話就是可能要進行因為這個是企業責任的問題企業責任他應該去投保來cover他的這個責任因為按照你們的法令上面其實是要投保的對對啊那他其實\n403933\t431459\t現在其實坦白講有個漏洞他預計這邊要關掉的他其實投保期他就沒有到他關掉的那一天他就提前比如說約到了我10月到了我就關起來但我繼續營業那主管機關也不會知道因為他現在其實是不像你的那個汽車強制責任險一樣就是你投保你要上傳然後你就會知道但是他現在是完全不需要所以其實坦白講你們也不知道你們現在不知道有多少食品業者他其實在做這個事情\n432699\t444527\t但是他其實是保險已經到了他沒有繼續加保其實都不知道我覺得這個是一個漏洞應該也要好好的去檢討好不好另外一個我要提醒的是那個小林這個他的紅曲毒素這個部分\n448690\t466495\t這個最新的消息日本已經死亡4個人了他是慢性中毒他已經死亡4個人了那臺灣其實有些食品的原料都用到他的原料這個也是另外一個很重大的食安事件我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡這個已經有人跟\n467415\t483548\t本辦投訴就是說他買的那個產品是vita box他自己看那個產品上面就是有小林的這個紅曲然後呢服務專線打不通然後呢打了1919沒有用叫他再去轉1950\n485609\t504609\t那我要問的是說,現在要求業者發現要下架,民眾如果手上有產品,看起來有點投訴無門啊?官網打不通,1919說你自己再去打1950,怎麼辦?消費者的權益?目前我簡單做個報告,那小林的產品直接進來是沒有\n505690\t526301\t但是原料有,原料是兩家,兩家進口這兩家,一家叫三核心,它底下就在配送給16家的下游業者去做製造產品那另外一家叫何斯特,它配送給39家去做產品那其中有兩家是重複的\n527042\t541637\t一共53家下游廠商下游廠商自主通報有12家還沒有通報的有41家但是他會自己去做\n542498\t542518\t進行專題報\n563550\t582322\t服務專線打不通這專區裡面其實有這一個相關的有7家他已經有公布出來的這個退換貨的這個機制有專線的電話在處理在我們的食藥署的專網站裡面的一個專區是有的這可以去查\n583462\t594761\t對,那你現在的1999可以提供什麼協助?你的食安專線打去的話,他說我也沒辦法你自己收集證據打1950我們是1919啦,這是第一個那第二個就是說\n596116\t621567\t這一個的話如果是有關推貨的話打到1919我們還是會跟請他去看這一個廠商他的推貨的專線是什麼是哪一個我們會轉那如果有爭議呢廠商沒有受理呢你們的窗口是什麼還是19191919會處理嗎對好要確定喔因為是已經有人投訴他說他就再直接總計再轉1950了說你自己處理1950了對啊好不好\n624889\t632509\t這一個一定是要處理最後今天的議題社安網我要問的是世界展望會的家庭寄養服務\n633353\t658794\t他說他要退出顯然在這次事件當中獵巫的效應讓有一些機構也開始觀望了開始退出這個保護系統在這樣的一個情況底下你們準備如何因應當機構的服務量減少的時候表示我們有更多的安置兒童他沒有辦法拿到一個最完整的服務因為比較下來寄養的系統是最完整的在目前的安置體系當中那當\n660295\t683271\t這個世界展望會他要退出的時候,這個的因應措施部長,你們的因應措施是什麼?他們有可能再回來接嗎?還是就一定是完全不可能的?市長會其實他在很早之前的話就已經說他要退出了啦,不再繼續提供這個檢討。那所以你們的備案是什麼?但是他沒有要接,但是那個家庭、寄養家庭還在。\n684324\t701635\t所以我們現在第一步比較...因為它有的好像三月就退了喔對所以我們第一個就是說還是要有人來接手本來在市長會的這一些寄養家庭把他納入他的...都找到了嗎目前正在處理\n702506\t718522\t所以還沒找到第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越大一直在下降這個真的是一個危機啊以前他們承辦寄養的就一直覺得寄養家庭朝暮不易啊發生這次事件之後可能有一些人也會退出他覺得風險很高啊\n718962\t740293\t所以我覺得這個事後整個衛福部應該通盤來整理就是說這一些安置系統他到底缺什麼他需要什麼樣的支持你要給大家足夠的信心否則每一個安置系統可能會出事爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉我覺得這個對我們社工網才是真的是非常大的挑戰好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"議員發言\n委員好部長好部長我要先請教你發生的這個重大的食安事件因為這次我們看到這次事件真的是很嚴重因為到目前為止已經有兩個人死亡又新增一名是台南的已經有五個人在搶救\n那目前通報剛剛新聞傳出來的是總共有14例這麼重大的一個死案事件我想問一下部長到目前為止中央這邊有組成專案小組積極的跨部會大家來查緝然後來了解知道原因是什麼嗎因為現在我必須坦白講所有的人都人心惶惶就是對於外使感到非常的不安全因為會覺得連\n拜訪公司的美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題大家在食安上的焦慮跟恐懼我覺得這個是瀰漫在大家的心裡所以作為主管機關中央主管機關是不是可以用最快的速度來釐清那個原因讓社會各界可以安心到目前為止你們有跟法務部組成一個跨部會的小組嗎因為現在法務部這個\n北檢、地檢也都動起來,要去查緝,那這個部分你們組起來了嗎?第一個我們26號的時候,那就由食藥署、疾管署跟北市衛生局法務部的民生小組叫北檢,那邊就開始做這個稽查\n你們是稽查?我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎?到目前為止有沒有?先做聯合稽查然後在昨天晚上我們有召集了照顧這些病人的醫院臨床的醫師還有六位的毒物專家\n還有環境部的化學署還有我們自己集管署、食藥署法務部的法醫研究所一起來討論這個可能的原因是什麼目前的話大概或是一個初步的方向我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做相關的一些檢測\n所以到目前為止你們是各自有一些各自進行的事項但是並沒有有一個聯合的工作小組對不對?沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組部長我真的具體我知道我具體的建議這個事情非同小可因為是過去沒有發生而且是一個非常重大的事件\n而且已經衝擊到國人對於食安的信心我認為中央應該跟地方還要跨部會的組成一個聯合專案小組就像你們現在在運作模式這當中還涉及到毒物各項的檢測還有就是解剖的分析還有就是向上去追查這些食物的來源還有很重要的是現在不是只有臺北市有案例最新傳出來的是臺南現在也已經有兩例但是他在同一個地方用餐了對\n所以表示他已經是跨出去縣市也不只是臺北市所以我認為這件事情這個衛福部應該趕快跟院長呈報就有一個召集人趕快把在這些相關的涉及到的這些部會的人通通都把他摳在一起然後很密集的開會討論一有什麼訊息大家互通有無用一個最緊急的一個狀態\n來因應這次的事件我覺得這個才是正辦我是具體這樣子建議第一個是這一個第二個就是說這次在整個通報的機制上面看起來是大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足即使中國大陸曾經發生這麼重大的這樣的一個\n這個中毒事件但是在臺灣因為過去沒有案例所以在第一時間你看他那個整個時間去其實是拉得比較長的然後他是透過拼湊的方式而不是透過原來衛福部的你的通報機制裡面就是去發現的就是慢慢拼湊起來才發現說哇原來這個都是來自於同樣在一家保齡茶室的這個東西有問題所以我覺得這一次這樣的一個情況可能衛福部也要去檢討就是說\n很多就是我們可能還有忽略的那這一類型可能就是過去忽略的現在連這個標準品其實都沒有表示過去針對這一類型我們並沒有做任何的準備這樣子即使對岸有案例所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要再去通盤看一下還有哪些類型可能其實其他國家有在發生但是臺灣我們因為過去沒有我們可能就比較鬆懈覺得說不會發生在我們這邊\n但這次的案例我覺得是真的蠻嚴重的因為現在是比較可疑是米酵菌酸那這一個部分的話當然在中國大陸那邊有case發生過但是台灣沒有而可能產生這一個所謂的VA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口\n是,但是我們發聲了,所以這就更弔詭了,就是說一定要去看就對了現在只是初步說這個可能性是最高啦米硝菌酸的可能性最高嘛但是還沒有檢驗出來,這個不能說成為…不能百分之百斷定嘛,但是就是他所有的就是他的中毒的症狀看起來很像嘛\n第三個我要講這次傳出來這個業者他的那個保險\n他預計他自己那邊要收了,他的保險聽說是沒有保的,那這個部分對於現在已經發生,有的人還在搶救,有人已經死亡,他將來怎麼辦?他的球場就是沒有保險的情況底下,那這個負責人如果說我沒有保險這麼重,但他賠不出來,那他們怎麼辦?真的很無辜欸。\n所以這個部分的話就是可能要進行因為這個是企業責任的問題企業責任他應該去投保來cover他的這個責任因為按照你們的法令上面其實是要投保的對對啊那他其實\n現在其實坦白講有個漏洞他預計這邊要關掉的他其實投保期他就沒有到他關掉的那一天他就提前比如說約到了我10月到了我就關起來但我繼續營業那主管機關也不會知道因為他現在其實是不像你的那個汽車強制責任險一樣就是你投保你要上傳然後你就會知道但是他現在是完全不需要所以其實坦白講你們也不知道你們現在不知道有多少食品業者他其實在做這個事情\n但是他其實是保險已經到了他沒有繼續加保其實都不知道我覺得這個是一個漏洞應該也要好好的去檢討好不好另外一個我要提醒的是那個小林這個他的紅曲毒素這個部分\n這個最新的消息日本已經死亡4個人了他是慢性中毒他已經死亡4個人了那臺灣其實有些食品的原料都用到他的原料這個也是另外一個很重大的食安事件我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡這個已經有人跟\n本辦投訴就是說他買的那個產品是vita box他自己看那個產品上面就是有小林的這個紅曲然後呢服務專線打不通然後呢打了1919沒有用叫他再去轉1950\n那我要問的是說,現在要求業者發現要下架,民眾如果手上有產品,看起來有點投訴無門啊?官網打不通,1919說你自己再去打1950,怎麼辦?消費者的權益?目前我簡單做個報告,那小林的產品直接進來是沒有\n但是原料有,原料是兩家,兩家進口這兩家,一家叫三核心,它底下就在配送給16家的下游業者去做製造產品那另外一家叫何斯特,它配送給39家去做產品那其中有兩家是重複的\n一共53家下游廠商下游廠商自主通報有12家還沒有通報的有41家但是他會自己去做\n進行專題報\n服務專線打不通這專區裡面其實有這一個相關的有7家他已經有公布出來的這個退換貨的這個機制有專線的電話在處理在我們的食藥署的專網站裡面的一個專區是有的這可以去查\n對,那你現在的1999可以提供什麼協助?你的食安專線打去的話,他說我也沒辦法你自己收集證據打1950我們是1919啦,這是第一個那第二個就是說\n這一個的話如果是有關推貨的話打到1919我們還是會跟請他去看這一個廠商他的推貨的專線是什麼是哪一個我們會轉那如果有爭議呢廠商沒有受理呢你們的窗口是什麼還是19191919會處理嗎對好要確定喔因為是已經有人投訴他說他就再直接總計再轉1950了說你自己處理1950了對啊好不好\n這一個一定是要處理最後今天的議題社安網我要問的是世界展望會的家庭寄養服務\n他說他要退出顯然在這次事件當中獵巫的效應讓有一些機構也開始觀望了開始退出這個保護系統在這樣的一個情況底下你們準備如何因應當機構的服務量減少的時候表示我們有更多的安置兒童他沒有辦法拿到一個最完整的服務因為比較下來寄養的系統是最完整的在目前的安置體系當中那當\n這個世界展望會他要退出的時候,這個的因應措施部長,你們的因應措施是什麼?他們有可能再回來接嗎?還是就一定是完全不可能的?市長會其實他在很早之前的話就已經說他要退出了啦,不再繼續提供這個檢討。那所以你們的備案是什麼?但是他沒有要接,但是那個家庭、寄養家庭還在。\n所以我們現在第一步比較...因為它有的好像三月就退了喔對所以我們第一個就是說還是要有人來接手本來在市長會的這一些寄養家庭把他納入他的...都找到了嗎目前正在處理\n所以還沒找到第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越大一直在下降這個真的是一個危機啊以前他們承辦寄養的就一直覺得寄養家庭朝暮不易啊發生這次事件之後可能有一些人也會退出他覺得風險很高啊\n所以我覺得這個事後整個衛福部應該通盤來整理就是說這一些安置系統他到底缺什麼他需要什麼樣的支持你要給大家足夠的信心否則每一個安置系統可能會出事爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉我覺得這個對我們社工網才是真的是非常大的挑戰好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.049\n議員發言\n\n00:18.260 --> 00:35.782\n委員好部長好部長我要先請教你發生的這個重大的食安事件因為這次我們看到這次事件真的是很嚴重因為到目前為止已經有兩個人死亡又新增一名是台南的已經有五個人在搶救\n\n00:36.403 --> 01:01.590\n那目前通報剛剛新聞傳出來的是總共有14例這麼重大的一個死案事件我想問一下部長到目前為止中央這邊有組成專案小組積極的跨部會大家來查緝然後來了解知道原因是什麼嗎因為現在我必須坦白講所有的人都人心惶惶就是對於外使感到非常的不安全因為會覺得連\n\n01:02.970 --> 01:27.860\n拜訪公司的美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題大家在食安上的焦慮跟恐懼我覺得這個是瀰漫在大家的心裡所以作為主管機關中央主管機關是不是可以用最快的速度來釐清那個原因讓社會各界可以安心到目前為止你們有跟法務部組成一個跨部會的小組嗎因為現在法務部這個\n\n01:29.401 --> 01:49.874\n北檢、地檢也都動起來,要去查緝,那這個部分你們組起來了嗎?第一個我們26號的時候,那就由食藥署、疾管署跟北市衛生局法務部的民生小組叫北檢,那邊就開始做這個稽查\n\n01:50.774 --> 02:09.949\n你們是稽查?我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎?到目前為止有沒有?先做聯合稽查然後在昨天晚上我們有召集了照顧這些病人的醫院臨床的醫師還有六位的毒物專家\n\n02:11.570 --> 02:36.404\n還有環境部的化學署還有我們自己集管署、食藥署法務部的法醫研究所一起來討論這個可能的原因是什麼目前的話大概或是一個初步的方向我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做相關的一些檢測\n\n02:37.645 --> 02:56.919\n所以到目前為止你們是各自有一些各自進行的事項但是並沒有有一個聯合的工作小組對不對?沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組部長我真的具體我知道我具體的建議這個事情非同小可因為是過去沒有發生而且是一個非常重大的事件\n\n02:57.339 --> 03:02.881\n而且已經衝擊到國人對於食安的信心我認為中央應該跟地方還要跨部會的組成一個聯合專案小組就像你們現在在運作模式這當中還涉及到毒物各項的檢測還有就是解剖的分析還有就是向上去追查這些食物的來源還有很重要的是現在不是只有臺北市有案例最新傳出來的是臺南現在也已經有兩例但是他在同一個地方用餐了對\n\n03:25.990 --> 03:50.131\n所以表示他已經是跨出去縣市也不只是臺北市所以我認為這件事情這個衛福部應該趕快跟院長呈報就有一個召集人趕快把在這些相關的涉及到的這些部會的人通通都把他摳在一起然後很密集的開會討論一有什麼訊息大家互通有無用一個最緊急的一個狀態\n\n03:51.812 --> 04:09.964\n來因應這次的事件我覺得這個才是正辦我是具體這樣子建議第一個是這一個第二個就是說這次在整個通報的機制上面看起來是大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足即使中國大陸曾經發生這麼重大的這樣的一個\n\n04:13.950 --> 04:41.611\n這個中毒事件但是在臺灣因為過去沒有案例所以在第一時間你看他那個整個時間去其實是拉得比較長的然後他是透過拼湊的方式而不是透過原來衛福部的你的通報機制裡面就是去發現的就是慢慢拼湊起來才發現說哇原來這個都是來自於同樣在一家保齡茶室的這個東西有問題所以我覺得這一次這樣的一個情況可能衛福部也要去檢討就是說\n\n04:42.552 --> 05:05.241\n很多就是我們可能還有忽略的那這一類型可能就是過去忽略的現在連這個標準品其實都沒有表示過去針對這一類型我們並沒有做任何的準備這樣子即使對岸有案例所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要再去通盤看一下還有哪些類型可能其實其他國家有在發生但是臺灣我們因為過去沒有我們可能就比較鬆懈覺得說不會發生在我們這邊\n\n05:07.142 --> 05:23.837\n但這次的案例我覺得是真的蠻嚴重的因為現在是比較可疑是米酵菌酸那這一個部分的話當然在中國大陸那邊有case發生過但是台灣沒有而可能產生這一個所謂的VA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口\n\n05:25.018 --> 05:43.312\n是,但是我們發聲了,所以這就更弔詭了,就是說一定要去看就對了現在只是初步說這個可能性是最高啦米硝菌酸的可能性最高嘛但是還沒有檢驗出來,這個不能說成為…不能百分之百斷定嘛,但是就是他所有的就是他的中毒的症狀看起來很像嘛\n\n05:43.812 --> 05:46.533\n第三個我要講這次傳出來這個業者他的那個保險\n\n06:05.899 --> 06:27.011\n他預計他自己那邊要收了,他的保險聽說是沒有保的,那這個部分對於現在已經發生,有的人還在搶救,有人已經死亡,他將來怎麼辦?他的球場就是沒有保險的情況底下,那這個負責人如果說我沒有保險這麼重,但他賠不出來,那他們怎麼辦?真的很無辜欸。\n\n06:28.240 --> 06:42.933\n所以這個部分的話就是可能要進行因為這個是企業責任的問題企業責任他應該去投保來cover他的這個責任因為按照你們的法令上面其實是要投保的對對啊那他其實\n\n06:43.933 --> 07:11.459\n現在其實坦白講有個漏洞他預計這邊要關掉的他其實投保期他就沒有到他關掉的那一天他就提前比如說約到了我10月到了我就關起來但我繼續營業那主管機關也不會知道因為他現在其實是不像你的那個汽車強制責任險一樣就是你投保你要上傳然後你就會知道但是他現在是完全不需要所以其實坦白講你們也不知道你們現在不知道有多少食品業者他其實在做這個事情\n\n07:12.699 --> 07:24.527\n但是他其實是保險已經到了他沒有繼續加保其實都不知道我覺得這個是一個漏洞應該也要好好的去檢討好不好另外一個我要提醒的是那個小林這個他的紅曲毒素這個部分\n\n07:28.690 --> 07:46.495\n這個最新的消息日本已經死亡4個人了他是慢性中毒他已經死亡4個人了那臺灣其實有些食品的原料都用到他的原料這個也是另外一個很重大的食安事件我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡這個已經有人跟\n\n07:47.415 --> 08:03.548\n本辦投訴就是說他買的那個產品是vitabox他自己看那個產品上面就是有小林的這個紅曲然後呢服務專線打不通然後呢打了1919沒有用叫他再去轉1950\n\n08:05.609 --> 08:24.609\n那我要問的是說,現在要求業者發現要下架,民眾如果手上有產品,看起來有點投訴無門啊?官網打不通,1919說你自己再去打1950,怎麼辦?消費者的權益?目前我簡單做個報告,那小林的產品直接進來是沒有\n\n08:25.690 --> 08:46.301\n但是原料有,原料是兩家,兩家進口這兩家,一家叫三核心,它底下就在配送給16家的下游業者去做製造產品那另外一家叫何斯特,它配送給39家去做產品那其中有兩家是重複的\n\n08:47.042 --> 09:01.637\n一共53家下游廠商下游廠商自主通報有12家還沒有通報的有41家但是他會自己去做\n\n09:02.498 --> 09:02.518\n進行專題報\n\n09:23.550 --> 09:42.322\n服務專線打不通這專區裡面其實有這一個相關的有7家他已經有公布出來的這個退換貨的這個機制有專線的電話在處理在我們的食藥署的專網站裡面的一個專區是有的這可以去查\n\n09:43.462 --> 09:54.761\n對,那你現在的1999可以提供什麼協助?你的食安專線打去的話,他說我也沒辦法你自己收集證據打1950我們是1919啦,這是第一個那第二個就是說\n\n09:56.116 --> 10:21.567\n這一個的話如果是有關推貨的話打到1919我們還是會跟請他去看這一個廠商他的推貨的專線是什麼是哪一個我們會轉那如果有爭議呢廠商沒有受理呢你們的窗口是什麼還是19191919會處理嗎對好要確定喔因為是已經有人投訴他說他就再直接總計再轉1950了說你自己處理1950了對啊好不好\n\n10:24.889 --> 10:32.509\n這一個一定是要處理最後今天的議題社安網我要問的是世界展望會的家庭寄養服務\n\n10:33.353 --> 10:58.794\n他說他要退出顯然在這次事件當中獵巫的效應讓有一些機構也開始觀望了開始退出這個保護系統在這樣的一個情況底下你們準備如何因應當機構的服務量減少的時候表示我們有更多的安置兒童他沒有辦法拿到一個最完整的服務因為比較下來寄養的系統是最完整的在目前的安置體系當中那當\n\n11:00.295 --> 11:23.271\n這個世界展望會他要退出的時候,這個的因應措施部長,你們的因應措施是什麼?他們有可能再回來接嗎?還是就一定是完全不可能的?市長會其實他在很早之前的話就已經說他要退出了啦,不再繼續提供這個檢討。那所以你們的備案是什麼?但是他沒有要接,但是那個家庭、寄養家庭還在。\n\n11:24.324 --> 11:41.635\n所以我們現在第一步比較...因為它有的好像三月就退了喔對所以我們第一個就是說還是要有人來接手本來在市長會的這一些寄養家庭把他納入他的...都找到了嗎目前正在處理\n\n11:42.506 --> 11:58.522\n所以還沒找到第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越大一直在下降這個真的是一個危機啊以前他們承辦寄養的就一直覺得寄養家庭朝暮不易啊發生這次事件之後可能有一些人也會退出他覺得風險很高啊\n\n11:58.962 --> 12:20.293\n所以我覺得這個事後整個衛福部應該通盤來整理就是說這一些安置系統他到底缺什麼他需要什麼樣的支持你要給大家足夠的信心否則每一個安置系統可能會出事爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉我覺得這個對我們社工網才是真的是非常大的挑戰好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.049,"text":"議員發言"},{"start":18.26,"end":35.782,"text":"委員好部長好部長我要先請教你發生的這個重大的食安事件因為這次我們看到這次事件真的是很嚴重因為到目前為止已經有兩個人死亡又新增一名是台南的已經有五個人在搶救"},{"start":36.403,"end":61.59,"text":"那目前通報剛剛新聞傳出來的是總共有14例這麼重大的一個死案事件我想問一下部長到目前為止中央這邊有組成專案小組積極的跨部會大家來查緝然後來了解知道原因是什麼嗎因為現在我必須坦白講所有的人都人心惶惶就是對於外使感到非常的不安全因為會覺得連"},{"start":62.97,"end":87.86,"text":"拜訪公司的美食街的產品都出現這麼重大的問題大家在食安上的焦慮跟恐懼我覺得這個是瀰漫在大家的心裡所以作為主管機關中央主管機關是不是可以用最快的速度來釐清那個原因讓社會各界可以安心到目前為止你們有跟法務部組成一個跨部會的小組嗎因為現在法務部這個"},{"start":89.401,"end":109.874,"text":"北檢、地檢也都動起來,要去查緝,那這個部分你們組起來了嗎?第一個我們26號的時候,那就由食藥署、疾管署跟北市衛生局法務部的民生小組叫北檢,那邊就開始做這個稽查"},{"start":110.774,"end":129.949,"text":"你們是稽查?我的意思是說你們有成立一個工作小組嗎?到目前為止有沒有?先做聯合稽查然後在昨天晚上我們有召集了照顧這些病人的醫院臨床的醫師還有六位的毒物專家"},{"start":131.57,"end":156.404,"text":"還有環境部的化學署還有我們自己集管署、食藥署法務部的法醫研究所一起來討論這個可能的原因是什麼目前的話大概或是一個初步的方向我們要根據昨天討論的方向再去做相關的一些檢測"},{"start":157.645,"end":176.919,"text":"所以到目前為止你們是各自有一些各自進行的事項但是並沒有有一個聯合的工作小組對不對?沒有一個名義上的聯合工作小組部長我真的具體我知道我具體的建議這個事情非同小可因為是過去沒有發生而且是一個非常重大的事件"},{"start":177.339,"end":182.881,"text":"而且已經衝擊到國人對於食安的信心我認為中央應該跟地方還要跨部會的組成一個聯合專案小組就像你們現在在運作模式這當中還涉及到毒物各項的檢測還有就是解剖的分析還有就是向上去追查這些食物的來源還有很重要的是現在不是只有臺北市有案例最新傳出來的是臺南現在也已經有兩例但是他在同一個地方用餐了對"},{"start":205.99,"end":230.131,"text":"所以表示他已經是跨出去縣市也不只是臺北市所以我認為這件事情這個衛福部應該趕快跟院長呈報就有一個召集人趕快把在這些相關的涉及到的這些部會的人通通都把他摳在一起然後很密集的開會討論一有什麼訊息大家互通有無用一個最緊急的一個狀態"},{"start":231.812,"end":249.964,"text":"來因應這次的事件我覺得這個才是正辦我是具體這樣子建議第一個是這一個第二個就是說這次在整個通報的機制上面看起來是大家對於這一類型的中毒案件的敏感度稍有不足即使中國大陸曾經發生這麼重大的這樣的一個"},{"start":253.95,"end":281.611,"text":"這個中毒事件但是在臺灣因為過去沒有案例所以在第一時間你看他那個整個時間去其實是拉得比較長的然後他是透過拼湊的方式而不是透過原來衛福部的你的通報機制裡面就是去發現的就是慢慢拼湊起來才發現說哇原來這個都是來自於同樣在一家保齡茶室的這個東西有問題所以我覺得這一次這樣的一個情況可能衛福部也要去檢討就是說"},{"start":282.552,"end":305.241,"text":"很多就是我們可能還有忽略的那這一類型可能就是過去忽略的現在連這個標準品其實都沒有表示過去針對這一類型我們並沒有做任何的準備這樣子即使對岸有案例所以我覺得這個部分可能你們自己還要再去通盤看一下還有哪些類型可能其實其他國家有在發生但是臺灣我們因為過去沒有我們可能就比較鬆懈覺得說不會發生在我們這邊"},{"start":307.142,"end":323.837,"text":"但這次的案例我覺得是真的蠻嚴重的因為現在是比較可疑是米酵菌酸那這一個部分的話當然在中國大陸那邊有case發生過但是台灣沒有而可能產生這一個所謂的VA的這些產品事實上我們並沒有從中國那邊進口"},{"start":325.018,"end":343.312,"text":"是,但是我們發聲了,所以這就更弔詭了,就是說一定要去看就對了現在只是初步說這個可能性是最高啦米硝菌酸的可能性最高嘛但是還沒有檢驗出來,這個不能說成為…不能百分之百斷定嘛,但是就是他所有的就是他的中毒的症狀看起來很像嘛"},{"start":343.812,"end":346.533,"text":"第三個我要講這次傳出來這個業者他的那個保險"},{"start":365.899,"end":387.011,"text":"他預計他自己那邊要收了,他的保險聽說是沒有保的,那這個部分對於現在已經發生,有的人還在搶救,有人已經死亡,他將來怎麼辦?他的球場就是沒有保險的情況底下,那這個負責人如果說我沒有保險這麼重,但他賠不出來,那他們怎麼辦?真的很無辜欸。"},{"start":388.24,"end":402.933,"text":"所以這個部分的話就是可能要進行因為這個是企業責任的問題企業責任他應該去投保來cover他的這個責任因為按照你們的法令上面其實是要投保的對對啊那他其實"},{"start":403.933,"end":431.459,"text":"現在其實坦白講有個漏洞他預計這邊要關掉的他其實投保期他就沒有到他關掉的那一天他就提前比如說約到了我10月到了我就關起來但我繼續營業那主管機關也不會知道因為他現在其實是不像你的那個汽車強制責任險一樣就是你投保你要上傳然後你就會知道但是他現在是完全不需要所以其實坦白講你們也不知道你們現在不知道有多少食品業者他其實在做這個事情"},{"start":432.699,"end":444.527,"text":"但是他其實是保險已經到了他沒有繼續加保其實都不知道我覺得這個是一個漏洞應該也要好好的去檢討好不好另外一個我要提醒的是那個小林這個他的紅曲毒素這個部分"},{"start":448.69,"end":466.495,"text":"這個最新的消息日本已經死亡4個人了他是慢性中毒他已經死亡4個人了那臺灣其實有些食品的原料都用到他的原料這個也是另外一個很重大的食安事件我不曉得現在我們下架的情況到哪裡這個已經有人跟"},{"start":467.415,"end":483.548,"text":"本辦投訴就是說他買的那個產品是vita box他自己看那個產品上面就是有小林的這個紅曲然後呢服務專線打不通然後呢打了1919沒有用叫他再去轉1950"},{"start":485.609,"end":504.609,"text":"那我要問的是說,現在要求業者發現要下架,民眾如果手上有產品,看起來有點投訴無門啊?官網打不通,1919說你自己再去打1950,怎麼辦?消費者的權益?目前我簡單做個報告,那小林的產品直接進來是沒有"},{"start":505.69,"end":526.301,"text":"但是原料有,原料是兩家,兩家進口這兩家,一家叫三核心,它底下就在配送給16家的下游業者去做製造產品那另外一家叫何斯特,它配送給39家去做產品那其中有兩家是重複的"},{"start":527.042,"end":541.637,"text":"一共53家下游廠商下游廠商自主通報有12家還沒有通報的有41家但是他會自己去做"},{"start":542.498,"end":542.518,"text":"進行專題報"},{"start":563.55,"end":582.322,"text":"服務專線打不通這專區裡面其實有這一個相關的有7家他已經有公布出來的這個退換貨的這個機制有專線的電話在處理在我們的食藥署的專網站裡面的一個專區是有的這可以去查"},{"start":583.462,"end":594.761,"text":"對,那你現在的1999可以提供什麼協助?你的食安專線打去的話,他說我也沒辦法你自己收集證據打1950我們是1919啦,這是第一個那第二個就是說"},{"start":596.116,"end":621.567,"text":"這一個的話如果是有關推貨的話打到1919我們還是會跟請他去看這一個廠商他的推貨的專線是什麼是哪一個我們會轉那如果有爭議呢廠商沒有受理呢你們的窗口是什麼還是19191919會處理嗎對好要確定喔因為是已經有人投訴他說他就再直接總計再轉1950了說你自己處理1950了對啊好不好"},{"start":624.889,"end":632.509,"text":"這一個一定是要處理最後今天的議題社安網我要問的是世界展望會的家庭寄養服務"},{"start":633.353,"end":658.794,"text":"他說他要退出顯然在這次事件當中獵巫的效應讓有一些機構也開始觀望了開始退出這個保護系統在這樣的一個情況底下你們準備如何因應當機構的服務量減少的時候表示我們有更多的安置兒童他沒有辦法拿到一個最完整的服務因為比較下來寄養的系統是最完整的在目前的安置體系當中那當"},{"start":660.295,"end":683.271,"text":"這個世界展望會他要退出的時候,這個的因應措施部長,你們的因應措施是什麼?他們有可能再回來接嗎?還是就一定是完全不可能的?市長會其實他在很早之前的話就已經說他要退出了啦,不再繼續提供這個檢討。那所以你們的備案是什麼?但是他沒有要接,但是那個家庭、寄養家庭還在。"},{"start":684.324,"end":701.635,"text":"所以我們現在第一步比較...因為它有的好像三月就退了喔對所以我們第一個就是說還是要有人來接手本來在市長會的這一些寄養家庭把他納入他的...都找到了嗎目前正在處理"},{"start":702.506,"end":718.522,"text":"所以還沒找到第二個比較大的問題是寄養家庭的家數越來越大一直在下降這個真的是一個危機啊以前他們承辦寄養的就一直覺得寄養家庭朝暮不易啊發生這次事件之後可能有一些人也會退出他覺得風險很高啊"},{"start":718.962,"end":740.293,"text":"所以我覺得這個事後整個衛福部應該通盤來整理就是說這一些安置系統他到底缺什麼他需要什麼樣的支持你要給大家足夠的信心否則每一個安置系統可能會出事爆發一個事件就把整個安置系統摧毀掉我覺得這個對我們社工網才是真的是非常大的挑戰好不好好謝謝"}]}}}}