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\"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 116.435, \"end\": 116.615, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 116.615, \"end\": 116.835, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 116.835, \"end\": 116.975, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 116.975, \"end\": 117.135, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 117.135, \"end\": 117.615, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 117.615, \"end\": 117.635, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"況\"}]}, {\"start\": 119.016, \"end\": 138.383, \"text\": \"那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 119.016, \"end\": 119.156, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 119.156, \"end\": 119.336, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 119.336, \"end\": 119.516, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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\"end\": 273.13, \"text\": \"因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 252.728, \"end\": 252.988, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 252.988, \"end\": 253.149, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 253.149, \"end\": 253.269, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 253.269, \"end\": 253.449, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 253.449, \"end\": 253.569, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 253.569, \"end\": 253.97, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 253.97, \"end\": 254.39, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 254.39, \"end\": 254.57, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 254.57, \"end\": 254.69, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 254.69, \"end\": 254.81, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 254.81, \"end\": 254.931, 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\"而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 275.171, \"end\": 275.392, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 275.392, \"end\": 275.552, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 275.552, \"end\": 276.112, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 276.112, \"end\": 277.133, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 277.133, \"end\": 277.353, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 277.353, \"end\": 277.493, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 277.493, \"end\": 278.654, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 278.654, \"end\": 279.394, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 279.394, \"end\": 279.834, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 279.834, \"end\": 280.115, \"score\": 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\"借\", \"start\": 291.802, \"end\": 292.222, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 292.222, \"end\": 292.502, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 292.502, \"end\": 292.603, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 292.603, \"end\": 292.743, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 292.743, \"end\": 293.303, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 293.303, \"end\": 293.563, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 293.563, \"end\": 293.783, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 293.783, \"end\": 293.963, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 293.963, \"end\": 294.124, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 294.124, \"end\": 294.284, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 294.284, \"end\": 294.484, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 294.484, \"end\": 294.644, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 294.644, \"end\": 294.804, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 294.804, \"end\": 294.984, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 294.984, \"end\": 295.164, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 295.164, \"end\": 295.364, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 295.364, \"end\": 295.444, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 295.444, \"end\": 295.464, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 295.464, \"end\": 295.484, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 296.525, \"end\": 323.502, \"text\": \"可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 296.525, \"end\": 296.665, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 296.665, \"end\": 296.805, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 296.805, \"end\": 296.985, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"旦\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 510.969, \"end\": 511.189, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"欣\", \"start\": 511.189, \"end\": 511.549, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"穎\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 511.549, \"end\": 511.97, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 511.97, \"end\": 512.11, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 512.11, \"end\": 512.13, \"score\": 0.875}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,449 --> 00:00:27,320\n徐媛媛,您早。早安。司長我想先問一下馬前總統他即將要到大陸去訪問那現在也傳出說可能會有馬席二會那我想要請問從外交部的立場以及相關的研判資訊的理解如果馬前總統與習近平主席見面傳達和平區域穩定的主張就你們的掌握對於台灣幾個相當重要的國家例如美國跟日本\n\n2\n00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:51,680\n他們的態度會是保持肯定的嗎?或者是會有什麼樣的一些想法跟思維?這一次當然他有沒有見到面我們還不知道這是媒體在揣測的假如說有的話?中華民國的利益不應該被犧牲掉這是非常重要的那您認為說會因為這樣子的會面中華民國的利益有所犧牲嗎?還是說這個是判斷在於說馬前總統是在什麼樣的主張?\n\n3\n00:00:55,583 --> 00:01:03,932\n那假使說在維護中華民國主權以及傳遞兩岸和平跟區域穩定的情況之下那世界各國會怎麼樣看待這個馬錫會二會\n\n4\n00:01:08,952 --> 00:01:29,662\n這個我們還要看看習近平怎麼樣來結招了你要看習近平要怎麼樣結招那麼如果說能夠把這個中華民國主權我們的民主、我們的人權以及我們這些過去的過往經濟的發展等等能夠很忠實的傳達到對岸能夠減少對岸的敵意\n\n5\n00:01:34,384 --> 00:01:57,635\n我相信這應該是一個正面的發展但是呢中國會這麼容易接受嗎他裡面講的很多條件可能也不見得我們能夠接受的這就是兩岸需要實際來溝通那我要問一下我們談到我們自己的主權很重要的最重要其中一個是我們的經濟情況\n\n6\n00:01:59,016 --> 00:02:18,383\n那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯\n\n7\n00:02:19,423 --> 00:02:32,193\n有太多的國家跟我們斷交之後積欠我國債務的情況那請問目前處理的狀況如何那他們的還的貸款是只還了利息還是本金都有穩定的在償還\n\n8\n00:02:33,868 --> 00:02:34,808\n當然,欠錢本來就要還錢。\n\n9\n00:02:58,789 --> 00:03:22,119\n那個欠錢要還錢我們要問說這9個國家斷交之後的相關的還錢的進度是什麼因為這是涉及到國家人民的納稅錢我們是立法委員就是來幫大家勘緊荷包所以我們想知道說你你在跟我們建交的時候跟我們來借款我們當然是願意一起來朋友嘛一起來合作來協作但斷交以後我們包含是追款跟追債的角度是不是來說要加強\n\n10\n00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,560\n這些國家貸款案都依照合約的規定正常的還本以及還息都有\n\n11\n00:03:49,187 --> 00:04:11,627\n那如果有些國家他比如說他還本還息的速度狀況比較慢的話我們有什麼樣積極的處置作為這可能就是他商業行為了商業行為了這已經是貸款的銀行要怎麼樣去跟他談了所以變成是說我們的邦交國跟我們借錢的時候對我們來協助的相關的商業銀行來說是一個很大的風險\n\n12\n00:04:12,728 --> 00:04:33,130\n因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎\n\n13\n00:04:35,171 --> 00:04:55,484\n而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的\n\n14\n00:04:56,525 --> 00:05:23,502\n可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些\n\n15\n00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:42,333\n跟委員報告在商業貸款的時候他們國家要提出相當的擔保這個擔保如果說他沒有還款的話他有兩個現象第一個國際債性他就很差國際債性他下次再債可能就很貸不到\n\n16\n00:05:42,833 --> 00:06:11,721\n他們可能都一直都沒有到很好嘛因為他是用外交手段去來借款的嘛我們當時借他錢的時候是以他的受信平等來作為要不要借他錢的決定嗎也不是啊我們是因為他是我們的邦交國啊所以這個部分看起來成效有限請您繼續說另外一個手段是什麼另外一個手段我們就有相當的抵押的東西嘛所以我們有沒有曾經過去有任何的跟我們的斷交國家他們當初提供的抵押品最後我們的銀行把他收走的有這樣的案例嗎\n\n17\n00:06:12,526 --> 00:06:18,734\n目前他是正常的還款速度而貸款的合約的擔保人是誰?當時借款的擔保人?\n\n18\n00:06:21,954 --> 00:06:44,007\n我跟委員報告一下就是說雖然我們的貸款是商業合約的方式但是合約都會有明定就是說在凍支的時候包括政府的本票包括這個國會的議決書包括這個檢調單位的一些文件等等這些都是對方國家所出具的主權擔保\n\n19\n00:06:45,167 --> 00:07:11,318\n所以針對這個擔保品的部分呢我們未來如果有任何違約的狀況都可以按照合約的爭端解決機制循司法途徑所以我們合約的擔保人是誰就是跟這9個斷交國當時在借款的時候我們一定合約當中借款上面有寫擔保人嘛擔保人是哪一個單位如果在每一個合約裡面都是對方的政府\n\n20\n00:07:12,899 --> 00:07:31,047\n對方的政府是擔保人那今天如果說對方他還不出錢的時候我們根據所有的合約我們前面有沒有曾經有先例就不管是在誰的任內斷交就中華民國史上有沒有曾經有案例是對方因為沒有還出錢來然後去把他們擔保品收回來的有這樣的案例嗎\n\n21\n00:07:32,828 --> 00:07:56,887\n委員報告我們曾經有勝訴過然後勝訴之後呢然後都會都會按照這個這個實務上面就是去查扣他的可抵押的資產那誰去查扣呢我們會有銀行委託的律師銀行委託的律師但是我們在這些邦交國我們當時在借款的時候都是選擇在這些邦交國有我們的銀行在嗎\n\n22\n00:07:57,782 --> 00:08:23,381\n那誰去做這件事就以你剛剛的案例來說是誰來處理這件事情我們的銀行我們的銀行來處理這件事情那最後做一個結論就是說呢斷交國現在9個國家跟我們的欠款我們還是希望第一個要公開透明的告知大眾那他們欠款的還款情況第二個政府也應該要強硬起來來跟我們的這些斷交國要求他們盡快的幫欠台灣的錢能夠還回來謝謝\n\n23\n00:08:24,642 --> 00:08:32,130\n好,謝謝徐巧芯委員。次長請回。好,接下來進行巡大委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1449\t27320\t徐媛媛,您早。早安。司長我想先問一下馬前總統他即將要到大陸去訪問那現在也傳出說可能會有馬席二會那我想要請問從外交部的立場以及相關的研判資訊的理解如果馬前總統與習近平主席見面傳達和平區域穩定的主張就你們的掌握對於台灣幾個相當重要的國家例如美國跟日本\n27680\t51680\t他們的態度會是保持肯定的嗎?或者是會有什麼樣的一些想法跟思維?這一次當然他有沒有見到面我們還不知道這是媒體在揣測的假如說有的話?中華民國的利益不應該被犧牲掉這是非常重要的那您認為說會因為這樣子的會面中華民國的利益有所犧牲嗎?還是說這個是判斷在於說馬前總統是在什麼樣的主張?\n55583\t63932\t那假使說在維護中華民國主權以及傳遞兩岸和平跟區域穩定的情況之下那世界各國會怎麼樣看待這個馬錫會二會\n68952\t89662\t這個我們還要看看習近平怎麼樣來結招了你要看習近平要怎麼樣結招那麼如果說能夠把這個中華民國主權我們的民主、我們的人權以及我們這些過去的過往經濟的發展等等能夠很忠實的傳達到對岸能夠減少對岸的敵意\n94384\t117635\t我相信這應該是一個正面的發展但是呢中國會這麼容易接受嗎他裡面講的很多條件可能也不見得我們能夠接受的這就是兩岸需要實際來溝通那我要問一下我們談到我們自己的主權很重要的最重要其中一個是我們的經濟情況\n119016\t138383\t那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯\n139423\t152193\t有太多的國家跟我們斷交之後積欠我國債務的情況那請問目前處理的狀況如何那他們的還的貸款是只還了利息還是本金都有穩定的在償還\n153868\t154808\t當然,欠錢本來就要還錢。\n178789\t202119\t那個欠錢要還錢我們要問說這9個國家斷交之後的相關的還錢的進度是什麼因為這是涉及到國家人民的納稅錢我們是立法委員就是來幫大家勘緊荷包所以我們想知道說你你在跟我們建交的時候跟我們來借款我們當然是願意一起來朋友嘛一起來合作來協作但斷交以後我們包含是追款跟追債的角度是不是來說要加強\n202919\t205560\t這些國家貸款案都依照合約的規定正常的還本以及還息都有\n229187\t251627\t那如果有些國家他比如說他還本還息的速度狀況比較慢的話我們有什麼樣積極的處置作為這可能就是他商業行為了商業行為了這已經是貸款的銀行要怎麼樣去跟他談了所以變成是說我們的邦交國跟我們借錢的時候對我們來協助的相關的商業銀行來說是一個很大的風險\n252728\t273130\t因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎\n275171\t295484\t而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的\n296525\t323502\t可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些\n324760\t342333\t跟委員報告在商業貸款的時候他們國家要提出相當的擔保這個擔保如果說他沒有還款的話他有兩個現象第一個國際債性他就很差國際債性他下次再債可能就很貸不到\n342833\t371721\t他們可能都一直都沒有到很好嘛因為他是用外交手段去來借款的嘛我們當時借他錢的時候是以他的受信平等來作為要不要借他錢的決定嗎也不是啊我們是因為他是我們的邦交國啊所以這個部分看起來成效有限請您繼續說另外一個手段是什麼另外一個手段我們就有相當的抵押的東西嘛所以我們有沒有曾經過去有任何的跟我們的斷交國家他們當初提供的抵押品最後我們的銀行把他收走的有這樣的案例嗎\n372526\t378734\t目前他是正常的還款速度而貸款的合約的擔保人是誰?當時借款的擔保人?\n381954\t404007\t我跟委員報告一下就是說雖然我們的貸款是商業合約的方式但是合約都會有明定就是說在凍支的時候包括政府的本票包括這個國會的議決書包括這個檢調單位的一些文件等等這些都是對方國家所出具的主權擔保\n405167\t431318\t所以針對這個擔保品的部分呢我們未來如果有任何違約的狀況都可以按照合約的爭端解決機制循司法途徑所以我們合約的擔保人是誰就是跟這9個斷交國當時在借款的時候我們一定合約當中借款上面有寫擔保人嘛擔保人是哪一個單位如果在每一個合約裡面都是對方的政府\n432899\t451047\t對方的政府是擔保人那今天如果說對方他還不出錢的時候我們根據所有的合約我們前面有沒有曾經有先例就不管是在誰的任內斷交就中華民國史上有沒有曾經有案例是對方因為沒有還出錢來然後去把他們擔保品收回來的有這樣的案例嗎\n452828\t476887\t委員報告我們曾經有勝訴過然後勝訴之後呢然後都會都會按照這個這個實務上面就是去查扣他的可抵押的資產那誰去查扣呢我們會有銀行委託的律師銀行委託的律師但是我們在這些邦交國我們當時在借款的時候都是選擇在這些邦交國有我們的銀行在嗎\n477782\t503381\t那誰去做這件事就以你剛剛的案例來說是誰來處理這件事情我們的銀行我們的銀行來處理這件事情那最後做一個結論就是說呢斷交國現在9個國家跟我們的欠款我們還是希望第一個要公開透明的告知大眾那他們欠款的還款情況第二個政府也應該要強硬起來來跟我們的這些斷交國要求他們盡快的幫欠台灣的錢能夠還回來謝謝\n504642\t512130\t好,謝謝徐巧芯委員。次長請回。好,接下來進行巡大委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在\n","txt":"徐媛媛,您早。早安。司長我想先問一下馬前總統他即將要到大陸去訪問那現在也傳出說可能會有馬席二會那我想要請問從外交部的立場以及相關的研判資訊的理解如果馬前總統與習近平主席見面傳達和平區域穩定的主張就你們的掌握對於台灣幾個相當重要的國家例如美國跟日本\n他們的態度會是保持肯定的嗎?或者是會有什麼樣的一些想法跟思維?這一次當然他有沒有見到面我們還不知道這是媒體在揣測的假如說有的話?中華民國的利益不應該被犧牲掉這是非常重要的那您認為說會因為這樣子的會面中華民國的利益有所犧牲嗎?還是說這個是判斷在於說馬前總統是在什麼樣的主張?\n那假使說在維護中華民國主權以及傳遞兩岸和平跟區域穩定的情況之下那世界各國會怎麼樣看待這個馬錫會二會\n這個我們還要看看習近平怎麼樣來結招了你要看習近平要怎麼樣結招那麼如果說能夠把這個中華民國主權我們的民主、我們的人權以及我們這些過去的過往經濟的發展等等能夠很忠實的傳達到對岸能夠減少對岸的敵意\n我相信這應該是一個正面的發展但是呢中國會這麼容易接受嗎他裡面講的很多條件可能也不見得我們能夠接受的這就是兩岸需要實際來溝通那我要問一下我們談到我們自己的主權很重要的最重要其中一個是我們的經濟情況\n那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯\n有太多的國家跟我們斷交之後積欠我國債務的情況那請問目前處理的狀況如何那他們的還的貸款是只還了利息還是本金都有穩定的在償還\n當然,欠錢本來就要還錢。\n那個欠錢要還錢我們要問說這9個國家斷交之後的相關的還錢的進度是什麼因為這是涉及到國家人民的納稅錢我們是立法委員就是來幫大家勘緊荷包所以我們想知道說你你在跟我們建交的時候跟我們來借款我們當然是願意一起來朋友嘛一起來合作來協作但斷交以後我們包含是追款跟追債的角度是不是來說要加強\n這些國家貸款案都依照合約的規定正常的還本以及還息都有\n那如果有些國家他比如說他還本還息的速度狀況比較慢的話我們有什麼樣積極的處置作為這可能就是他商業行為了商業行為了這已經是貸款的銀行要怎麼樣去跟他談了所以變成是說我們的邦交國跟我們借錢的時候對我們來協助的相關的商業銀行來說是一個很大的風險\n因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎\n而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的\n可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些\n跟委員報告在商業貸款的時候他們國家要提出相當的擔保這個擔保如果說他沒有還款的話他有兩個現象第一個國際債性他就很差國際債性他下次再債可能就很貸不到\n他們可能都一直都沒有到很好嘛因為他是用外交手段去來借款的嘛我們當時借他錢的時候是以他的受信平等來作為要不要借他錢的決定嗎也不是啊我們是因為他是我們的邦交國啊所以這個部分看起來成效有限請您繼續說另外一個手段是什麼另外一個手段我們就有相當的抵押的東西嘛所以我們有沒有曾經過去有任何的跟我們的斷交國家他們當初提供的抵押品最後我們的銀行把他收走的有這樣的案例嗎\n目前他是正常的還款速度而貸款的合約的擔保人是誰?當時借款的擔保人?\n我跟委員報告一下就是說雖然我們的貸款是商業合約的方式但是合約都會有明定就是說在凍支的時候包括政府的本票包括這個國會的議決書包括這個檢調單位的一些文件等等這些都是對方國家所出具的主權擔保\n所以針對這個擔保品的部分呢我們未來如果有任何違約的狀況都可以按照合約的爭端解決機制循司法途徑所以我們合約的擔保人是誰就是跟這9個斷交國當時在借款的時候我們一定合約當中借款上面有寫擔保人嘛擔保人是哪一個單位如果在每一個合約裡面都是對方的政府\n對方的政府是擔保人那今天如果說對方他還不出錢的時候我們根據所有的合約我們前面有沒有曾經有先例就不管是在誰的任內斷交就中華民國史上有沒有曾經有案例是對方因為沒有還出錢來然後去把他們擔保品收回來的有這樣的案例嗎\n委員報告我們曾經有勝訴過然後勝訴之後呢然後都會都會按照這個這個實務上面就是去查扣他的可抵押的資產那誰去查扣呢我們會有銀行委託的律師銀行委託的律師但是我們在這些邦交國我們當時在借款的時候都是選擇在這些邦交國有我們的銀行在嗎\n那誰去做這件事就以你剛剛的案例來說是誰來處理這件事情我們的銀行我們的銀行來處理這件事情那最後做一個結論就是說呢斷交國現在9個國家跟我們的欠款我們還是希望第一個要公開透明的告知大眾那他們欠款的還款情況第二個政府也應該要強硬起來來跟我們的這些斷交國要求他們盡快的幫欠台灣的錢能夠還回來謝謝\n好,謝謝徐巧芯委員。次長請回。好,接下來進行巡大委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.449 --> 00:27.320\n徐媛媛,您早。早安。司長我想先問一下馬前總統他即將要到大陸去訪問那現在也傳出說可能會有馬席二會那我想要請問從外交部的立場以及相關的研判資訊的理解如果馬前總統與習近平主席見面傳達和平區域穩定的主張就你們的掌握對於台灣幾個相當重要的國家例如美國跟日本\n\n00:27.680 --> 00:51.680\n他們的態度會是保持肯定的嗎?或者是會有什麼樣的一些想法跟思維?這一次當然他有沒有見到面我們還不知道這是媒體在揣測的假如說有的話?中華民國的利益不應該被犧牲掉這是非常重要的那您認為說會因為這樣子的會面中華民國的利益有所犧牲嗎?還是說這個是判斷在於說馬前總統是在什麼樣的主張?\n\n00:55.583 --> 01:03.932\n那假使說在維護中華民國主權以及傳遞兩岸和平跟區域穩定的情況之下那世界各國會怎麼樣看待這個馬錫會二會\n\n01:08.952 --> 01:29.662\n這個我們還要看看習近平怎麼樣來結招了你要看習近平要怎麼樣結招那麼如果說能夠把這個中華民國主權我們的民主、我們的人權以及我們這些過去的過往經濟的發展等等能夠很忠實的傳達到對岸能夠減少對岸的敵意\n\n01:34.384 --> 01:57.635\n我相信這應該是一個正面的發展但是呢中國會這麼容易接受嗎他裡面講的很多條件可能也不見得我們能夠接受的這就是兩岸需要實際來溝通那我要問一下我們談到我們自己的主權很重要的最重要其中一個是我們的經濟情況\n\n01:59.016 --> 02:18.383\n那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯\n\n02:19.423 --> 02:32.193\n有太多的國家跟我們斷交之後積欠我國債務的情況那請問目前處理的狀況如何那他們的還的貸款是只還了利息還是本金都有穩定的在償還\n\n02:33.868 --> 02:34.808\n當然,欠錢本來就要還錢。\n\n02:58.789 --> 03:22.119\n那個欠錢要還錢我們要問說這9個國家斷交之後的相關的還錢的進度是什麼因為這是涉及到國家人民的納稅錢我們是立法委員就是來幫大家勘緊荷包所以我們想知道說你你在跟我們建交的時候跟我們來借款我們當然是願意一起來朋友嘛一起來合作來協作但斷交以後我們包含是追款跟追債的角度是不是來說要加強\n\n03:22.919 --> 03:25.560\n這些國家貸款案都依照合約的規定正常的還本以及還息都有\n\n03:49.187 --> 04:11.627\n那如果有些國家他比如說他還本還息的速度狀況比較慢的話我們有什麼樣積極的處置作為這可能就是他商業行為了商業行為了這已經是貸款的銀行要怎麼樣去跟他談了所以變成是說我們的邦交國跟我們借錢的時候對我們來協助的相關的商業銀行來說是一個很大的風險\n\n04:12.728 --> 04:33.130\n因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎\n\n04:35.171 --> 04:55.484\n而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的\n\n04:56.525 --> 05:23.502\n可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些\n\n05:24.760 --> 05:42.333\n跟委員報告在商業貸款的時候他們國家要提出相當的擔保這個擔保如果說他沒有還款的話他有兩個現象第一個國際債性他就很差國際債性他下次再債可能就很貸不到\n\n05:42.833 --> 06:11.721\n他們可能都一直都沒有到很好嘛因為他是用外交手段去來借款的嘛我們當時借他錢的時候是以他的受信平等來作為要不要借他錢的決定嗎也不是啊我們是因為他是我們的邦交國啊所以這個部分看起來成效有限請您繼續說另外一個手段是什麼另外一個手段我們就有相當的抵押的東西嘛所以我們有沒有曾經過去有任何的跟我們的斷交國家他們當初提供的抵押品最後我們的銀行把他收走的有這樣的案例嗎\n\n06:12.526 --> 06:18.734\n目前他是正常的還款速度而貸款的合約的擔保人是誰?當時借款的擔保人?\n\n06:21.954 --> 06:44.007\n我跟委員報告一下就是說雖然我們的貸款是商業合約的方式但是合約都會有明定就是說在凍支的時候包括政府的本票包括這個國會的議決書包括這個檢調單位的一些文件等等這些都是對方國家所出具的主權擔保\n\n06:45.167 --> 07:11.318\n所以針對這個擔保品的部分呢我們未來如果有任何違約的狀況都可以按照合約的爭端解決機制循司法途徑所以我們合約的擔保人是誰就是跟這9個斷交國當時在借款的時候我們一定合約當中借款上面有寫擔保人嘛擔保人是哪一個單位如果在每一個合約裡面都是對方的政府\n\n07:12.899 --> 07:31.047\n對方的政府是擔保人那今天如果說對方他還不出錢的時候我們根據所有的合約我們前面有沒有曾經有先例就不管是在誰的任內斷交就中華民國史上有沒有曾經有案例是對方因為沒有還出錢來然後去把他們擔保品收回來的有這樣的案例嗎\n\n07:32.828 --> 07:56.887\n委員報告我們曾經有勝訴過然後勝訴之後呢然後都會都會按照這個這個實務上面就是去查扣他的可抵押的資產那誰去查扣呢我們會有銀行委託的律師銀行委託的律師但是我們在這些邦交國我們當時在借款的時候都是選擇在這些邦交國有我們的銀行在嗎\n\n07:57.782 --> 08:23.381\n那誰去做這件事就以你剛剛的案例來說是誰來處理這件事情我們的銀行我們的銀行來處理這件事情那最後做一個結論就是說呢斷交國現在9個國家跟我們的欠款我們還是希望第一個要公開透明的告知大眾那他們欠款的還款情況第二個政府也應該要強硬起來來跟我們的這些斷交國要求他們盡快的幫欠台灣的錢能夠還回來謝謝\n\n08:24.642 --> 08:32.130\n好,謝謝徐巧芯委員。次長請回。好,接下來進行巡大委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.449,"end":27.32,"text":"徐媛媛,您早。早安。司長我想先問一下馬前總統他即將要到大陸去訪問那現在也傳出說可能會有馬席二會那我想要請問從外交部的立場以及相關的研判資訊的理解如果馬前總統與習近平主席見面傳達和平區域穩定的主張就你們的掌握對於台灣幾個相當重要的國家例如美國跟日本"},{"start":27.68,"end":51.68,"text":"他們的態度會是保持肯定的嗎?或者是會有什麼樣的一些想法跟思維?這一次當然他有沒有見到面我們還不知道這是媒體在揣測的假如說有的話?中華民國的利益不應該被犧牲掉這是非常重要的那您認為說會因為這樣子的會面中華民國的利益有所犧牲嗎?還是說這個是判斷在於說馬前總統是在什麼樣的主張?"},{"start":55.583,"end":63.932,"text":"那假使說在維護中華民國主權以及傳遞兩岸和平跟區域穩定的情況之下那世界各國會怎麼樣看待這個馬錫會二會"},{"start":68.952,"end":89.662,"text":"這個我們還要看看習近平怎麼樣來結招了你要看習近平要怎麼樣結招那麼如果說能夠把這個中華民國主權我們的民主、我們的人權以及我們這些過去的過往經濟的發展等等能夠很忠實的傳達到對岸能夠減少對岸的敵意"},{"start":94.384,"end":117.635,"text":"我相信這應該是一個正面的發展但是呢中國會這麼容易接受嗎他裡面講的很多條件可能也不見得我們能夠接受的這就是兩岸需要實際來溝通那我要問一下我們談到我們自己的主權很重要的最重要其中一個是我們的經濟情況"},{"start":119.016,"end":138.383,"text":"那我們看一下我們這幾年來斷交了非常多的國家那我們也發現說呢斷交的國家有很多國家都跟台灣實際上是欠錢沒有還的例如巴拿馬、多明尼加、布吉納法索、薩爾瓦多、索羅門群島、吉里巴斯、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯跟諾魯"},{"start":139.423,"end":152.193,"text":"有太多的國家跟我們斷交之後積欠我國債務的情況那請問目前處理的狀況如何那他們的還的貸款是只還了利息還是本金都有穩定的在償還"},{"start":153.868,"end":154.808,"text":"當然,欠錢本來就要還錢。"},{"start":178.789,"end":202.119,"text":"那個欠錢要還錢我們要問說這9個國家斷交之後的相關的還錢的進度是什麼因為這是涉及到國家人民的納稅錢我們是立法委員就是來幫大家勘緊荷包所以我們想知道說你你在跟我們建交的時候跟我們來借款我們當然是願意一起來朋友嘛一起來合作來協作但斷交以後我們包含是追款跟追債的角度是不是來說要加強"},{"start":202.919,"end":205.56,"text":"這些國家貸款案都依照合約的規定正常的還本以及還息都有"},{"start":229.187,"end":251.627,"text":"那如果有些國家他比如說他還本還息的速度狀況比較慢的話我們有什麼樣積極的處置作為這可能就是他商業行為了商業行為了這已經是貸款的銀行要怎麼樣去跟他談了所以變成是說我們的邦交國跟我們借錢的時候對我們來協助的相關的商業銀行來說是一個很大的風險"},{"start":252.728,"end":273.13,"text":"因為他可能之後就斷交了之後他還錢的速度等等的他變成是商業那外交部在這個過程當中就是說如果我們的斷交國欠錢沒有還然後呢一段時間了那我們的外交部把它當成是一個單純的商業行為沒有其他的協助嗎沒有協助我國的商業銀行向這個斷交的國家持續去催款嗎"},{"start":275.171,"end":295.484,"text":"而跟委員報告斷交以後這個款項已經是商業行為了對這就是鳳公我理解你的意思但他就是一個很詭異的地方嘛他今天如果不是跟我們有當交的話那他也不會跑來跟我們的銀行借錢所以當初在借錢的時候是透過所謂外交的手段一起共同合作來協助的"},{"start":296.525,"end":323.502,"text":"可是一旦斷交之後那外交部的角色被抽掉了變成是一個單純的商業行為我就問我們台灣的銀行要去跟這些斷交的國家催債那在外交部沒有其他支援援助的情況下面要怎麼樣能夠做到呢欠債還錢連在台灣自己對本國人追債可能都有困難了你要追到斷交的前邦交國去到底要怎麼做到我們外交部在這件事情協助商業銀行的積極性手段有哪一些"},{"start":324.76,"end":342.333,"text":"跟委員報告在商業貸款的時候他們國家要提出相當的擔保這個擔保如果說他沒有還款的話他有兩個現象第一個國際債性他就很差國際債性他下次再債可能就很貸不到"},{"start":342.833,"end":371.721,"text":"他們可能都一直都沒有到很好嘛因為他是用外交手段去來借款的嘛我們當時借他錢的時候是以他的受信平等來作為要不要借他錢的決定嗎也不是啊我們是因為他是我們的邦交國啊所以這個部分看起來成效有限請您繼續說另外一個手段是什麼另外一個手段我們就有相當的抵押的東西嘛所以我們有沒有曾經過去有任何的跟我們的斷交國家他們當初提供的抵押品最後我們的銀行把他收走的有這樣的案例嗎"},{"start":372.526,"end":378.734,"text":"目前他是正常的還款速度而貸款的合約的擔保人是誰?當時借款的擔保人?"},{"start":381.954,"end":404.007,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是說雖然我們的貸款是商業合約的方式但是合約都會有明定就是說在凍支的時候包括政府的本票包括這個國會的議決書包括這個檢調單位的一些文件等等這些都是對方國家所出具的主權擔保"},{"start":405.167,"end":431.318,"text":"所以針對這個擔保品的部分呢我們未來如果有任何違約的狀況都可以按照合約的爭端解決機制循司法途徑所以我們合約的擔保人是誰就是跟這9個斷交國當時在借款的時候我們一定合約當中借款上面有寫擔保人嘛擔保人是哪一個單位如果在每一個合約裡面都是對方的政府"},{"start":432.899,"end":451.047,"text":"對方的政府是擔保人那今天如果說對方他還不出錢的時候我們根據所有的合約我們前面有沒有曾經有先例就不管是在誰的任內斷交就中華民國史上有沒有曾經有案例是對方因為沒有還出錢來然後去把他們擔保品收回來的有這樣的案例嗎"},{"start":452.828,"end":476.887,"text":"委員報告我們曾經有勝訴過然後勝訴之後呢然後都會都會按照這個這個實務上面就是去查扣他的可抵押的資產那誰去查扣呢我們會有銀行委託的律師銀行委託的律師但是我們在這些邦交國我們當時在借款的時候都是選擇在這些邦交國有我們的銀行在嗎"},{"start":477.782,"end":503.381,"text":"那誰去做這件事就以你剛剛的案例來說是誰來處理這件事情我們的銀行我們的銀行來處理這件事情那最後做一個結論就是說呢斷交國現在9個國家跟我們的欠款我們還是希望第一個要公開透明的告知大眾那他們欠款的還款情況第二個政府也應該要強硬起來來跟我們的這些斷交國要求他們盡快的幫欠台灣的錢能夠還回來謝謝"},{"start":504.642,"end":512.13,"text":"好,謝謝徐巧芯委員。次長請回。好,接下來進行巡大委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在"}]}}}}