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11:05:27","影片長度":"00:09:35","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":575,"end_time":"2024-03-28T11:05:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T10:55:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":524,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時56分）好，謝謝主席，我們有請陳主委。"],["主席：好，有請主委。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委，謝謝。我想跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家雜誌的報導，該文特別提到，臺灣是已開發國家裡面能源最不安全的經濟體之一，主委，你怎麼看待核能，它是不是一個安全的能源？"],["陳主任委員東陽：到目前為止，是，我們國家。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。最近核能峰會三十幾國有一個聲明要建新的核電廠，這個部分，你有看過這個新聞嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大老閉門會談，與會的力積電董事長黃崇仁在事後透露，會中賴清德──我們的準總統盼繼續支持半導業，例如綠能、水電及土地等半導體未來要面對的問題，政府都會盡全力支持。主委，3月19日的閉門會議，你有參加嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，有關3月19日那一次的閉門會談，據報導指出，半導體有提出相關的需求，希望能夠自建核電廠。主委，半導體是臺灣的定海神針，基於用電的需求，我想大家都知道政府會盡全力支持，但半導體要自建核電廠，主委，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個是一個很大的課題啦，不完全是經費的問題，其實它有很多面向……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，評估、相關的安全疑慮，我想這個部分您怎麼看待呢？往好的部分樂觀其成，還是慎重、不可能？"],["陳主任委員東陽：相對地複雜。"],["羅委員廷瑋：相對地複雜？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點，相對地複雜都有可能，是嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，是相對的複雜，因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題、有環境的部分、有經濟部的部分，有我們會的部分，還有土地的部分。"],["羅委員廷瑋：非常感謝上次你有來拜訪我，我們一起探討核四相關的問題，我也探討出其實核四要再復甦，重新再來啟動，有很多的事情要去做一個考驗，如果把核四交給民間半導體業者來經營呢？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核四在2014年已經封存了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對、我知道。"],["陳主任委員東陽：2020年它的建照執照已經到期……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，要重新申請，再做相關的規劃……"],["陳主任委員東陽：2021公投又沒有過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對。"],["陳主任委員東陽：所以它從法制面，其他方面不談，在法制面就有很多的關卡。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委，其實不只半導體業者，根據商業周刊去年12月底也發布調查報告，比起戰爭，515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視，比起政府的綠電政策，其實更在意核能政策，既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠，自蓋也沒問題。主委，這就像開放美豬一樣，當時民進黨說：開放美豬，馬英九總統下臺，但民進黨進來以後開始就說：哎呀！開放美豬以後，為何蔡總統沒有下臺？原來民進黨說：因為美豬符合CODEX就可以進來，這種雙標的矛盾，剛好就有人做球給行政單位，半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠，半導體業者又是臺灣的定海神針，這是給執政團隊有藉口、給一個台階下，幫忙協助解套。主委，您怎麼看？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核安會其實是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是。"],["陳主任委員東陽：它其實偏向於專業、技術、安全的部分，對於我們國家的能源政策，應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委，我就不為難你。有專家提出質疑，台電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能，當然這跟經濟面也有關係，若給半導體自建核電廠，這樣缺電、漲電價的問題就有可能解決了嗎？我想這個有待大家一起考驗。過去的核二廠、核三廠都是二代的核能，已封存的核四廠是三代的核能，現在國際上已經發展到第四代的核能，核能的技術已經有重大進展，隨著2050實現淨排是我們全球的共同目標，再生能源屆時也會有這樣的一個因應。我想相較於化石燃料，核能不會產生二氧化碳，不受氣候影響，穩定性、價格波動都優於風及太陽能，近年來常提到SMR小型核能，它是一種小型模組，我想您都非常瞭解，主委您覺得SMR適合臺灣嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個還是有點複雜，其實最近美國的Idaho National Lab就把它停止了，為什麼？因為不符合商業利益，也就是核電廠的部分，因為新的prototype到社會、市場面還是有一些困難，成本不敷商業的利益，它做了停止，所以股價也下跌。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想跟你探討另外一個問題，近期在邊境檢出日本靜岡出口的片裝香菇含有每公斤7.9貝克的微量輻射「銫」，現在是日本排放核污水後第四期，請問主委，這是天然環境中的自然生長還是植株被污染？"],["陳主任委員東陽：你是說檢測出來的東西嗎？"],["羅委員廷瑋：對。"],["陳主任委員東陽：應該是被污染。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後，今天的書面報告第16頁有提到，自111年起赴日本現場查證4次，請問第4次的報告在哪？本席在網路上只看到3次。"],["陳主任委員東陽：應該是有，在去年10月到11月之間。"],["羅委員廷瑋：相關的資訊會後再麻煩給我們一下，好嗎？在第3次赴日觀察的一個報告當中，我方代表有提到大熊分析研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證，請問主委，這個大熊分析研究中心現在拿到ISO認證了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個是日本的大熊分析……"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個你有掌握嗎？因為如果它沒有拿到國際認證，那我們是去看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎？對不對？"],["陳主任委員東陽：有請張組長來回復。"],["張組長淑君：報告委員，大熊分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室，他們定期都有跟IAEA的實驗室參加比對的活動。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你有掌握它有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎？"],["張組長淑君：這一塊我們可能會後要透過外交的管道再去瞭解。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想作為第三方檢測單位做出來的監測，如果沒有這樣的認證，我們可以相信嗎？我們一直不斷赴日到底是什麼意義？我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討，對不對？我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的，但如果它沒有這樣的認證，國人也不太瞭解我們到底去那邊看什麼，我想作為民意代表，我們有責任更深度瞭解這些提供數據的單位是不是值得我們去認證、去檢測、去觀看。剛剛有許多立法委員都非常關心現在日本第四批核廢水的監測部分，我想從第一批到現在，我們一直擔心這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的漁貨，目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心，對吧？但剛剛有人說監測核廢水的數量是不是能夠提升，我想這部分是不是可以給我們一個正面回應？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，沒有問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：因為我們臺灣人本身也是滿喜歡吃海鮮的，對於核廢水的部分，很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣的一個問題點，但很多人對食安日漸看重，尤其最近臺灣的食品安全問題愈來愈多，所以我想監測這一批核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷到臺灣海域的時候，這部分是不是可以給予我們更頻繁、準確的相關數據？這個有賴主委再努力，好嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，沒有問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。"],["主席（范委員雲代）：我們現在請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150602","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150602","tool":"pyannote","id":"150602-pyannote"},"job_id":"9FZtqdBZiRtuVFuT","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 398.568, \"end\": 398.728, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 398.728, \"end\": 398.848, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 398.848, \"end\": 399.068, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 399.068, \"end\": 399.248, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"赴\", \"start\": 399.248, \"end\": 399.368, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 399.368, \"end\": 399.728, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 399.728, \"end\": 400.409, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 400.409, \"end\": 400.629, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 400.629, \"end\": 400.969, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 400.969, \"end\": 401.329, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 401.329, \"end\": 401.629, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": 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411.031, \"end\": 411.171, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 411.171, \"end\": 411.211, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 411.211, \"end\": 411.391, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.391, \"end\": 411.511, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 411.511, \"end\": 411.531, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 413.25, \"end\": 425.739, \"text\": \"這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 413.25, \"end\": 413.43, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 413.43, \"end\": 413.611, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 413.611, \"end\": 413.811, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 413.811, \"end\": 414.171, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 414.171, \"end\": 414.331, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 414.331, \"end\": 414.651, 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\"end\": 572.344, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 572.344, \"end\": 572.465, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 572.465, \"end\": 572.485, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 572.485, \"end\": 572.686, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 572.686, \"end\": 572.706, \"score\": 0.369}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,953 --> 00:00:31,983\n謝謝主席我們有請陳主委有請主委主委謝謝我想今年跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家一個雜誌該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能它是不是一個安全的能源\n\n2\n00:00:33,683 --> 00:00:35,804\n3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露\n\n3\n00:00:56,793 --> 00:00:56,973\n3月19日閉門會議\n\n4\n00:01:13,066 --> 00:01:33,880\n好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神針基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情\n\n5\n00:01:35,161 --> 00:01:53,363\n這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能\n\n6\n00:01:55,087 --> 00:02:12,508\n相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分\n\n7\n00:02:12,748 --> 00:02:31,034\n非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢\n\n8\n00:02:34,295 --> 00:02:54,446\n那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期2021公投又沒有過所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡\n\n9\n00:02:57,130 --> 00:03:22,565\n那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台\n\n10\n00:03:27,088 --> 00:03:53,530\n但民進黨進來以後就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做球給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看\n\n11\n00:03:54,417 --> 00:04:08,410\n那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適\n\n12\n00:04:11,393 --> 00:04:24,212\n主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能當然這跟經濟面也有關係若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電\n\n13\n00:04:26,215 --> 00:04:26,475\n主席\n\n14\n00:04:42,395 --> 00:05:04,422\n核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現進牌我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格波動都優於\n\n15\n00:05:05,282 --> 00:05:06,343\n封太陽能\n\n16\n00:05:17,365 --> 00:05:36,227\n這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個NationalLab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到\n\n17\n00:05:37,168 --> 00:05:37,408\n李卓人議員\n\n18\n00:06:01,835 --> 00:06:27,407\n日本排放核污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次\n\n19\n00:06:38,568 --> 00:06:51,531\n在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎\n\n20\n00:06:53,250 --> 00:07:05,739\n這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆\n\n21\n00:07:09,670 --> 00:07:26,470\n報告委員大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解\n\n22\n00:07:26,630 --> 00:07:41,637\n我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來監測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他\n\n23\n00:07:41,937 --> 00:07:42,197\n李卓人議員\n\n24\n00:07:59,345 --> 00:08:14,079\n那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第一批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲\n\n25\n00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:31,670\n目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題\n\n26\n00:08:32,791 --> 00:09:01,752\n我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更\n\n27\n00:09:02,572 --> 00:09:03,833\n主席主委\n\n28\n00:09:32,203 --> 00:09:32,706\n林委員主委好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8953\t31983\t謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請主委主委謝謝我想今年跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家一個雜誌該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能它是不是一個安全的能源\n33683\t35804\t3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露\n56793\t56973\t3月19日閉門會議\n73066\t93880\t好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神針基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情\n95161\t113363\t這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能\n115087\t132508\t相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分\n132748\t151034\t非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢\n154295\t174446\t那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期2021公投又沒有過所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡\n177130\t202565\t那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台\n207088\t233530\t但民進黨進來以後就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做球給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看\n234417\t248410\t那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適\n251393\t264212\t主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能當然這跟經濟面也有關係若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電\n266215\t266475\t主席\n282395\t304422\t核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現進牌我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格波動都優於\n305282\t306343\t封太陽能\n317365\t336227\t這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個National Lab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到\n337168\t337408\t李卓人議員\n361835\t387407\t日本排放核污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次\n398568\t411531\t在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎\n413250\t425739\t這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆\n429670\t446470\t報告委員大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解\n446630\t461637\t我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來監測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他\n461937\t462197\t李卓人議員\n479345\t494079\t那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第一批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲\n495400\t511670\t目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題\n512791\t541752\t我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更\n542572\t543833\t主席主委\n572203\t572706\t林委員主委好\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請主委主委謝謝我想今年跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家一個雜誌該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能它是不是一個安全的能源\n3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露\n3月19日閉門會議\n好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神針基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情\n這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能\n相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分\n非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢\n那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期2021公投又沒有過所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡\n那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台\n但民進黨進來以後就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做球給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看\n那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適\n主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能當然這跟經濟面也有關係若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電\n主席\n核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現進牌我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格波動都優於\n封太陽能\n這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個National Lab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到\n李卓人議員\n日本排放核污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次\n在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎\n這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆\n報告委員大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解\n我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來監測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他\n李卓人議員\n那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第一批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲\n目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題\n我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更\n主席主委\n林委員主委好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.953 --> 00:31.983\n謝謝主席我們有請陳主委有請主委主委謝謝我想今年跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家一個雜誌該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能它是不是一個安全的能源\n\n00:33.683 --> 00:35.804\n3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露\n\n00:56.793 --> 00:56.973\n3月19日閉門會議\n\n01:13.066 --> 01:33.880\n好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神針基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情\n\n01:35.161 --> 01:53.363\n這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能\n\n01:55.087 --> 02:12.508\n相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分\n\n02:12.748 --> 02:31.034\n非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢\n\n02:34.295 --> 02:54.446\n那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期2021公投又沒有過所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡\n\n02:57.130 --> 03:22.565\n那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台\n\n03:27.088 --> 03:53.530\n但民進黨進來以後就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做球給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看\n\n03:54.417 --> 04:08.410\n那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適\n\n04:11.393 --> 04:24.212\n主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能當然這跟經濟面也有關係若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電\n\n04:26.215 --> 04:26.475\n主席\n\n04:42.395 --> 05:04.422\n核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現進牌我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格波動都優於\n\n05:05.282 --> 05:06.343\n封太陽能\n\n05:17.365 --> 05:36.227\n這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個NationalLab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到\n\n05:37.168 --> 05:37.408\n李卓人議員\n\n06:01.835 --> 06:27.407\n日本排放核污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次\n\n06:38.568 --> 06:51.531\n在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎\n\n06:53.250 --> 07:05.739\n這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆\n\n07:09.670 --> 07:26.470\n報告委員大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解\n\n07:26.630 --> 07:41.637\n我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來監測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他\n\n07:41.937 --> 07:42.197\n李卓人議員\n\n07:59.345 --> 08:14.079\n那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第一批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲\n\n08:15.400 --> 08:31.670\n目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題\n\n08:32.791 --> 09:01.752\n我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更\n\n09:02.572 --> 09:03.833\n主席主委\n\n09:32.203 --> 09:32.706\n林委員主委好\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.953,"end":31.983,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請主委主委謝謝我想今年跟你探討一下今年2月份外交家一個雜誌該文特別提到臺灣是以開發國家裡面能源最不安全的一個經濟體之一主委你怎麼看待核能它是不是一個安全的能源"},{"start":33.683,"end":35.804,"text":"3月19日賴清德赴竹科與產業大佬閉門會談與與會的利基電董事長王崇仁也事後有透露"},{"start":56.793,"end":56.973,"text":"3月19日閉門會議"},{"start":73.066,"end":93.88,"text":"好那在3月19那一次的閉門會談我想據這個報導也指出半導體有提出相關的需求希望能夠自建核電廠主委半導體是台灣的定海神針基於用電的需求我想大家都知道政府呢會盡全力的一個支持但半導體要自建核電廠主委你怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":95.161,"end":113.363,"text":"這是一個很大的課題不完全是經費的問題其實它有很多面向譬如相關的安全疑慮我想這個部分你怎麼看待呢管好的部分樂觀其成還是慎重不可能"},{"start":115.087,"end":132.508,"text":"相對的複雜相對的複雜是你說綜合以上我所提出的這些觀點相對的複雜都有可能是嗎是的是相對的複雜因為這牽扯到跨部會的問題有環境的部分有經濟部的部分有我們會的部分還有土地的部分"},{"start":132.748,"end":151.034,"text":"非常感謝上次你有來跟我做一個拜訪我們一起來做一個探討核四的相關的一個問題那我也探討出核四其實要再做復甦重新再來啟動有很多的事情要去做一個考驗那如果把核四交給半導體業者民間來經營呢"},{"start":154.295,"end":174.446,"text":"那個核四我們2014年已經封存了那2020年它的建造執照已經到期2021公投又沒有過所以它從法制面其他方面不談法制面它就有很多的關卡"},{"start":177.13,"end":202.565,"text":"那主委其實不只半導體業者根據這個商業週刊去年12年發布調查報告比起戰爭515位企業家對於供電穩定度更為重視且比起政府的綠電政策其實更在意核能的一個政策那既然半導體業者都開口希望有核電廠自蓋也沒問題主委就像開放美豬一樣當時民進黨就說開放美豬馬英九總統下台"},{"start":207.088,"end":233.53,"text":"但民進黨進來以後就開始就說開放美豬以後為何蔡總統沒有下台原來民進黨說因為美豬符合Codex就可以進來這種雙標的一個矛盾剛好就有人做球給行政單位那半導體業者現在提出了自建核電廠那半導體業者又是台灣的定海神針這是給執政團隊有藉口一個台階下幫忙協助解套主委您怎麼看"},{"start":234.417,"end":248.41,"text":"那個核安會其實它是一個獨立的核能安全管制機關它其實偏向於專業技術安全的部分對於這個我們國家的能源政策其實應該是由經濟部來發言比較妥適"},{"start":251.393,"end":264.212,"text":"主委我就不為難你有專家提出的質疑臺電近年來的虧損就是沒有使用核能當然這跟經濟面也有關係若給半導體來做一個自建核電廠這樣缺電"},{"start":266.215,"end":266.475,"text":"主席"},{"start":282.395,"end":304.422,"text":"核能的技術已經有重大的一個進展隨著2050的實現進牌我們的全球共同目標再生能源也難屆時會有這樣子的一個因應我想相較於化石燃料核能會不會產生核能不會產生二氧化碳不受氣候影響穩定性價格波動都優於"},{"start":305.282,"end":306.343,"text":"封太陽能"},{"start":317.365,"end":336.227,"text":"這個還是有點複雜那個美國最近的那個愛達那個National Lab那麼他其實就把它停止了那為什麼因為不符合商業利益就是說核電廠這個部分因為新的Prototype也就是說到社會到"},{"start":337.168,"end":337.408,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":361.835,"end":387.407,"text":"日本排放核污水後第4期請問主委這是天然環境中的自然生長還是蜘蛛被污染你是說檢測出來的東西應該是被污染最後我想在今天的一個書面報告第16頁有提到自111年起赴日本現場查證4次請問第4次的報告在哪本席在網路上只看到3次"},{"start":398.568,"end":411.531,"text":"在第三次赴日觀察的一個報告當中我方代表有提到大雄分析的研究中心尚未拿到ISO的實驗室認證請問主委這個大雄分析研究中心現在拿到ISO的認證了嗎"},{"start":413.25,"end":425.739,"text":"這個是日本的大雄分析這個你有掌握嗎?因為他如果沒有拿到了國際認證那我們去看是看一個沒有國際認證的實驗分析中心嗎?我請張組長來回覆"},{"start":429.67,"end":446.47,"text":"報告委員大雄分析實驗室是日本的JAEA的一個實驗室那他們是定期都有跟IAEA的一個實驗室來去參加一個比對的一個活動你有掌握他有沒有拿到ISO認證嗎這一塊我們可能會要透過外交的一個管道我們再去了解"},{"start":446.63,"end":461.637,"text":"我想作為第三方的檢測單位做出來監測我覺得如果沒有這樣子的認證我們可以相信嗎那我們一直不斷去赴日到底是什麼意義我想這部分我們應該也來做一個探討對不對我們希望看到的東西是值得我們相信的那如果他"},{"start":461.937,"end":462.197,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":479.345,"end":494.079,"text":"那我想剛剛有許多的立法委員都非常關心有關於那個日本核廢水現在的第4批監測水的部分我想從第一批到現在我們一直在擔心說這個核廢水會不會影響到我們的一些漁獲"},{"start":495.4,"end":511.67,"text":"目前看到的一些相關資料好像也都要我們不用擔心對吧但剛剛有人說這個監測核廢水的一個數量是不是能夠提升我想這部分是不是可以給我們正面一個回應好沒有問題"},{"start":512.791,"end":541.752,"text":"我想因為我們自己本身台灣人也是蠻喜歡吃海鮮的啦那對於核廢水這部分很多民眾不一定瞭解這樣子的一個問題點但我想很多人對食安遇見看重尤其最近台灣的食品安全越來越問題越來越多所以我想說監測這一批的核廢水以及未來核廢水透過洋流不斷的到台灣的海域的時候這部分是不是可以給予我們更"},{"start":542.572,"end":543.833,"text":"主席主委"},{"start":572.203,"end":572.706,"text":"林委員主委好"}]}}}}