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11:35:14","影片長度":"00:05:27","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":327,"end_time":"2024-03-28T11:35:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T11:29:47+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":679,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時30分）謝謝主席，我們請陳主委。"],["主席：好，有請主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主委好。我們要來談核電廠延役，你如果沒有去談處理核廢料，一切都是白談。我們是不是有一個低放射性廢棄物最終處置設施場址設置條例？是不是有這一個設置條例？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["李委員坤城：這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物，18年來因為地方政府反對，場址到現在都還沒辦法定案，這只是低放射性耶！本席請教一下主委，我們的核廢料是屬於哪一種？"],["陳主任委員東陽：有低放也有高放。"],["李委員坤城：低放都找不到，何況是高放？所以你講到說核能發電1度是多少錢的時候，你必須要把後面怎麼去處理核廢料這個東西要把它算進去啊！如果沒有把它算進去的話，好像1度才多少錢，把它加進去之後就不得了了！本席再請教一下，新北市政府沒有核發室外乾式貯存槽的執照，也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠，有沒有這回事？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["李委員坤城：有這回事嘛！新北市政府不發嘛，對不對？那新北市政府為什麼不發？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想是因為擔心核廢料放在乾式貯存槽，會被當作永久處置。"],["李委員坤城：這也是我們擔心的啊！我來自新北市，我在三重，我們也擔心啊！侯市長在當市長的時候都沒有表態，要選總統的時候他就說支持核電，核一廠的室外乾式貯存槽，我們已經完工了，是不是已經完工了？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["李委員坤城：現在也沒辦法使用？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有辦法，因為……"],["李委員坤城：因為它執照沒有發？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對。"],["李委員坤城：好，核二廠室外乾式貯存槽呢？現在還在打官司？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有，還沒建。"],["李委員坤城：所以我們現在核一廠、核二廠裡面的燃料棒咧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒辦法拿出來。"],["李委員坤城：放在裡面危不危險？"],["陳主任委員東陽：相對危險。"],["李委員坤城：相對危險？那有沒有影響到核一、核二停役的問題？"],["陳主任委員東陽：當然，是因為這個樣子，所以提前停役。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！所以現在問題是卡在新北市政府，室外乾式貯存槽它也不給你做、也不給你執照，那你放在那邊又危險，那問題是出在哪裡？"],["陳主任委員東陽：就出在這個社會共識、民意溝通……"],["李委員坤城：不是出在社會共識、民意溝通啦！大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理啊！問題是出在新北市政府不讓它做乾式貯存槽嘛！你至少要把這一個燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的除役問題不是嗎？你現在都不做，談什麼後續除役的問題啊？請教一下，核一廠開始除役了沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核一廠已經除役。"],["李委員坤城：已經除役了？開始做了沒有？"],["陳主任委員東陽：已經開始做了，聯絡電塔、氣渦輪機都拆掉了。"],["李委員坤城：108年7月16號開始的，那核二廠呢？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核二廠也已經除役了，但是它還沒有開始拆除，它除役的許可還沒有核發，主要是環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來。"],["李委員坤城：預計哪時候可以拿到這個除役的許可？"],["陳主任委員東陽：要等台電跟環境部相關的公文。"],["李委員坤城：按照你們提供的資料，是希望在114年，也就是明年5月底的時候，取得除役的許可。也就是說核一的除役已經在進行中了，核二準備在除役中了嘛！那要怎麼延役？要怎麼延役？"],["陳主任委員東陽：相對困難。"],["李委員坤城：相對困難，你現在沒辦法處理乾式貯存槽燃料棒的問題，你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題，你怎麼去談延役的問題咧？其實馬英九在100年的時候，他有提到核一、核二、核三都不延役，這個資料在總統府網站上面都還找得到，但現在有國民黨的立委要提法讓核一、核二、核三延役，本席是建議，過去在蓋核電廠的時候，都沒有經過地方民眾的同意啦！你說要蓋就蓋，因為過去在威權的時代，只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了，未來如果真的要核電廠延役的話，第一個是安全的問題，這最重要，沒有安全不要談什麼延役的問題。第二個，這個乾式貯存槽，燃料棒拿都拿不出來，還談什麼延役的問題。第三，要在地的居民同意。主委，你同不同意？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我想我是一個獨立的安全管制機關啦！我……"],["李委員坤城：好啦！那第三項我就不問你，第三項是我們民意代表要來決定。前面兩項呢？"],["陳主任委員東陽：同意。"],["李委員坤城：同意嘛！你安全沒有辦法處理，燃料棒沒辦法處理，談什麼延役的問題嘛，對不對？好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員，主委請回。我們接下來請王鴻薇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150613","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150613","tool":"pyannote","id":"150613-pyannote"},"job_id":"8Yy0TQebLLD37Lu6","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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00:00:51,255\n這個我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置設置廠製設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種\n\n3\n00:00:53,114 --> 00:00:53,474\n本席再請教一下\n\n4\n00:01:13,972 --> 00:01:29,537\n新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?是的有這回事嗎?新北市政府它不發嘛對不對?那新北市政府為什麼不發?\n\n5\n00:01:32,452 --> 00:01:55,257\n我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹室儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市我在三重,我也擔心啊這個侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個室外幹室儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了\n\n6\n00:01:56,397 --> 00:02:23,826\n那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役\n\n7\n00:02:24,668 --> 00:02:37,050\n對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡\n\n8\n00:02:39,284 --> 00:02:55,597\n出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有\n\n9\n00:03:05,217 --> 00:03:05,879\n108年7月16日開始\n\n10\n00:03:16,817 --> 00:03:41,278\n市場也已經廚藝了但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個廚藝的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計的時候可以拿到這個廚藝的許可要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得廚藝的許可\n\n11\n00:03:42,352 --> 00:03:51,318\n那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊\n\n12\n00:04:08,344 --> 00:04:17,803\n這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到核一核二核三都不研議這個資料在總統訪網站上面都還找得到\n\n13\n00:04:18,737 --> 00:04:45,467\n本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要這個要讓這個核一核二三研議本席是建議啦過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權的時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題\n\n14\n00:04:46,673 --> 00:04:47,814\n主席主席主席主席主席\n\n15\n00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:15,040\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5427\t5587\t核電廠研議\n26586\t51255\t這個我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置設置廠製設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種\n53114\t53474\t本席再請教一下\n73972\t89537\t新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?是的有這回事嗎?新北市政府它不發嘛對不對?那新北市政府為什麼不發?\n92452\t115257\t我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹室儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市我在三重,我也擔心啊這個侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個室外幹室儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了\n116397\t143826\t那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役\n144668\t157050\t對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡\n159284\t175597\t出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有\n185217\t185879\t108年7月16日開始\n196817\t221278\t市場也已經廚藝了但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個廚藝的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計的時候可以拿到這個廚藝的許可要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得廚藝的許可\n222352\t231318\t那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊\n248344\t257803\t這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到核一核二核三都不研議這個資料在總統訪網站上面都還找得到\n258737\t285467\t本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要這個要讓這個核一核二三研議本席是建議啦過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權的時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題\n286673\t287814\t主席主席主席主席主席\n314940\t315040\t主席\n","txt":"核電廠研議\n這個我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置設置廠製設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種\n本席再請教一下\n新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?是的有這回事嗎?新北市政府它不發嘛對不對?那新北市政府為什麼不發?\n我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹室儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市我在三重,我也擔心啊這個侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個室外幹室儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了\n那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役\n對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡\n出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有\n108年7月16日開始\n市場也已經廚藝了但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個廚藝的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計的時候可以拿到這個廚藝的許可要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得廚藝的許可\n那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊\n這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到核一核二核三都不研議這個資料在總統訪網站上面都還找得到\n本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要這個要讓這個核一核二三研議本席是建議啦過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權的時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題\n主席主席主席主席主席\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.427 --> 00:05.587\n核電廠研議\n\n00:26.586 --> 00:51.255\n這個我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置設置廠製設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種\n\n00:53.114 --> 00:53.474\n本席再請教一下\n\n01:13.972 --> 01:29.537\n新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?是的有這回事嗎?新北市政府它不發嘛對不對?那新北市政府為什麼不發?\n\n01:32.452 --> 01:55.257\n我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹室儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市我在三重,我也擔心啊這個侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個室外幹室儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了\n\n01:56.397 --> 02:23.826\n那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役\n\n02:24.668 --> 02:37.050\n對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡\n\n02:39.284 --> 02:55.597\n出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有\n\n03:05.217 --> 03:05.879\n108年7月16日開始\n\n03:16.817 --> 03:41.278\n市場也已經廚藝了但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個廚藝的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計的時候可以拿到這個廚藝的許可要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得廚藝的許可\n\n03:42.352 --> 03:51.318\n那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊\n\n04:08.344 --> 04:17.803\n這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到核一核二核三都不研議這個資料在總統訪網站上面都還找得到\n\n04:18.737 --> 04:45.467\n本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要這個要讓這個核一核二三研議本席是建議啦過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權的時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題\n\n04:46.673 --> 04:47.814\n主席主席主席主席主席\n\n05:14.940 --> 05:15.040\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.427,"end":5.587,"text":"核電廠研議"},{"start":26.586,"end":51.255,"text":"這個我們是不是有一條這個低放射性這個廢棄物最終處置設置廠製設置條例是不是有這一條這個設置條例是的這個是處理低放射性的廢棄物18年來因為地方政府反對長此這個到現在都還沒有辦法定案這只是低放射性那本席請教一下這一個主委那我們的這一個核廢料呢是屬於哪一種"},{"start":53.114,"end":53.474,"text":"本席再請教一下"},{"start":73.972,"end":89.537,"text":"新北市政府沒有核發事外干涉的儲存槽執照也使得核一廠、核二廠被迫提前關廠有沒有這回事?是的有這回事嗎?新北市政府它不發嘛對不對?那新北市政府為什麼不發?"},{"start":92.452,"end":115.257,"text":"我想是因為擔心這個核廢料放在幹室儲存槽．會被當作永久處置這也是我們擔心的啊我來自新北市我在三重,我也擔心啊這個侯市長他這個在當市長的時候都沒有表態要選總統的時候他就說支持核電核一廠的這個室外幹室儲存槽我們已經完工了是不是已經完工了"},{"start":116.397,"end":143.826,"text":"那現在也沒辦法使用因為他執照沒有發核二廠事外干事儲存槽現在還在打官司那所以我們現在核二廠裡面的燃料棒呢沒辦法拿出來那放在裡面會不會危險相對危險那有沒有影響到核一核二停役的問題當然是因為這個樣子所以提前停役"},{"start":144.668,"end":157.05,"text":"對啊那所以說問題是卡在說現在新北市政府這個室外的根式儲存槽他也不給你做也不給你執照那你又放在那邊又危險那問題是出在哪裡"},{"start":159.284,"end":175.597,"text":"出在社會共識、民意溝通不是出在社會共識、民意溝通大家都希望說核廢料能夠處理問題是出在西本市政府乾式儲存廠你不讓他做嘛至少你要把這個我們燃料棒先拿出來談談後續的廚藝問題不是嗎那你現在都不做談什麼後續廚藝的問題啊那請教一下合約廠開始廚藝了沒有"},{"start":185.217,"end":185.879,"text":"108年7月16日開始"},{"start":196.817,"end":221.278,"text":"市場也已經廚藝了但是他還沒有開始拆除他那個廚藝的許可還沒有核發主要是這個環境影響評估的公文還沒有到我們會裡面來那預計的時候可以拿到這個廚藝的許可要等台電跟環境部相關的公文按照這個你們提供的資料啦所以希望說在這個114年就是明年5月底的時候取得廚藝的許可"},{"start":222.352,"end":231.318,"text":"那也就是說啦,合一的這個廚藝已經在進行中了合二的人就準備在廚藝中了嘛對啊那要怎麼研議?要怎麼研議?相對困難你先沒辦法處理乾式儲存材的燃料棒的問題那你也沒辦法處理核廢料的問題那你怎麼去談研議的問題咧?其實啊"},{"start":248.344,"end":257.803,"text":"這個是馬英九他在一百年的時候他有提到核一核二核三都不研議這個資料在總統訪網站上面都還找得到"},{"start":258.737,"end":285.467,"text":"本席是建議啦現在有國民黨的這個立委要提法要這個要讓這個核一核二三研議本席是建議啦過去在蓋這個核電廠的時候都沒有經過這個地方民眾的同意你說要蓋就蓋因為過去在這個威權威權的時代這個只要是國民黨政府說要蓋就蓋了未來啊如果真的啊說這個這個要核電廠研議的話最重要第一個安全的問題"},{"start":286.673,"end":287.814,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":314.94,"end":315.04,"text":"主席"}]}}}}