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11:35:13","影片長度":"00:08:24","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「社會安全網缺失檢討及具體改進作法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結案18案（報告事項）。【第18案，如經復議則不予處理】\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月27日及28日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-9"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":504,"end_time":"2024-03-28T11:35:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T11:26:49+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1416,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（11時26分）主席好，請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["盧委員縣一：部長好。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：辛苦了。蘇丹紅事件沒過多久昨天又發生事件，你的推測是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：昨天我們召開了專家會議，目前最有可能的是米酵菌酸……"],["盧委員縣一：就是細菌產生的，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：它是細菌分泌的……"],["盧委員縣一：那麼有沒有朝向下毒的部分……"],["薛部長瑞元：這不排除，所以法務部也進來了……"],["盧委員縣一：之前在2011年發生過四死命案，你還記得嗎？在信義鄉的催芽劑事件？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，催芽劑。"],["盧委員縣一：也就是無色無味，甚至有點水果味的一種農藥產品，只要幾CC就可以造成死亡，所以這方面也要馬上進入……"],["薛部長瑞元：有。昨天我們也有找農試所專家，邀請他們來加入團隊，看看有哪些農藥中毒的話……"],["盧委員縣一：就你醫療的背景來說，應該要多下一番功夫，比一般人多一點警覺，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["盧委員縣一：回到今天的主題。我一項一項仔細看了你們在制度面、實務面與法制面的精進作為，就制度面而言，在地方政府與收出養媒合機構的分工以迴避利益衝突這議題上，不知道你要怎麼解釋給大眾聽？從字面上來看，我看不懂！"],["薛部長瑞元：簡單講，以目前的機制，特別是這個案子裡，是由收出養媒合機構，即兒福聯盟決定小孩子……"],["盧委員縣一：迴避利益衝突是指什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：由他來決定這個小孩子是不是要出養！如果最後有人要收養這個小孩子，他可以得到酬勞。所以在過程當中要判斷小孩子出養是不是符合小孩子的最佳利益……"],["盧委員縣一：OK……"],["薛部長瑞元：若他自己最後獲得的酬勞是出養，那這兩個就會有衝突。"],["盧委員縣一：你說應該交給地方政府，對不對？我後來看到的結論……"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們希望未來將出養的必要性評估放在地方政府……"],["盧委員縣一：地方政府的能力夠負擔那麼多的……"],["薛部長瑞元：Case不多。"],["盧委員縣一：Case不多嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：Case不多。"],["盧委員縣一：你們預期他們可以負擔得起？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在全國也不過四百多位。"],["盧委員縣一：第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制，你們的監督機制出來了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在有，且有關全日托的監督與一般日托保母之要求……"],["盧委員縣一：沒關係，下一頁還有，我們就先看這個。幼兒專責醫師制度確實可行嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然可行！但是……"],["盧委員縣一：可是有些地方沒有醫師訓練課程，如此他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前有盤點過，應該沒有問題。在沒有小兒科醫師的地方，比方說比較偏遠地區的話，就是衛生所……"],["盧委員縣一：我知道，通訊上課或是訓練就可以了……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["盧委員縣一：如果有地方確實沒有醫生怎麼辦？像臺東或屏東這些比較偏遠的地區，如恆春鎮……"],["薛部長瑞元：這沒有問題，恆春鎮有兒科醫師。"],["盧委員縣一：還有滿州鄉、牡丹鄉……"],["薛部長瑞元：所以就近如果有……"],["盧委員縣一：所以對於偏遠地區你們要多費心考量……"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分有做規劃。"],["盧委員縣一：OK，第二個就是實務面的問題，也就是訪視頻率。訪視頻率你們現在怎麼界定？一個禮拜一次，還是三天一次？還是怎麼樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分其實是這樣子的。我們的意思並不是要增加單一社工的loading……"],["盧委員縣一：我就是不希望增加他們的loading才要問你大概是多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：這種個案會有各方面的社工……"],["盧委員縣一：所以你有分級？"],["薛部長瑞元：對、對。"],["盧委員縣一：比如這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或特別需要……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["盧委員縣一：OK。"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們希望能建立交叉訪視機制……"],["盧委員縣一：應注意事項列表我也沒有看到，所以我希望你們可以大概告訴我列表有哪些項目？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們會討論這部分……"],["盧委員縣一：複訪機制是指哪些人複訪？"],["薛部長瑞元：就是我剛剛講的交叉訪視，比如有居托中心的，有社福中心的，有收出養媒合機構的，這些的話在開始的時候就必須……"],["盧委員縣一：接下來還有保母督導管理制度，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["盧委員縣一：我也沒有看到現在跟以後的……"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分我們會去加強！目前在兒福聯盟，我們在討論這個的時候，並沒有一個好的……"],["盧委員縣一：上次我有提到通訊功能，並希望能增加視訊監督，比如當我的孩子放在那邊24小時的時候，是不是能有個機制讓我可以在什麼時段看到他全身的樣子？如洗澡的時候？我認為要加上這一項才是實務面，如果實務面都沒有看到的話怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：在保母家裝監視器大概不可能……"],["盧委員縣一：那要怎麼透過這點……"],["薛部長瑞元：如果真要有監督者或家屬想看到保母，可以請保母提供……"],["盧委員縣一：我知道凱凱事件就是……"],["薛部長瑞元：這種方式就可以……"],["盧委員縣一：其實可能只看到一次，後面第二次、第三次都沒有看到才會發生事情！所以我們才希望能增加視訊監督，不然至少可以看到小朋友的樣子……"],["薛部長瑞元：但可能也不是……"],["盧委員縣一：如果增加視訊的話，那麼護理訪視或醫生訪視……也就是所謂的遠距，因為太遠的地方就是要遠距，是不是這部分……"],["薛部長瑞元：如果是專責醫師部分是可以考慮，因為有些路途真的非常、非常遠。"],["盧委員縣一：我們一直講實務面，但確實可以做到的卻沒有考慮進去的話就很可惜！"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["盧委員縣一：是不是？最後是法制面部分，兒童及少年福利權益保障法及兒童托育服務法目前都沒有嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在都在進行當中，第一個需要修法……"],["盧委員縣一：那預計什麼時候……"],["薛部長瑞元：第二個是新的立法。"],["盧委員縣一：我現在秀出一張照片。昨天有民眾向我陳情，希望我能關心。3月4日保母通知他孩子溢奶或者說嗆到，於是送到屏基急救。急救時已經做過CPR，也就是說曾經心肺停止。但3月12日病情加重，現在正在高雄長庚加護病房。一個孩子的媽媽竟然透過網路尋求幫忙，這是什麼樣的一個時代？是不是沒有政府部門主動關心這件事情？從3月4日到現在幾天了？"],["薛部長瑞元：這件事屏東縣政府應該有介入……"],["盧委員縣一：可是感覺媽媽很無助，你看看內容：「我真的求求你們大家幫忙我，能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會。」這樣的話語是一個非常無助的母親所說的話，希望你們能夠，如果你們有足夠的人力去瞭解，這幾天能夠回覆給我，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好，我們來瞭解一下。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝盧縣一委員。","接下來請郭昱晴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":526,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-9","speakers":["黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","林淑芬","陳菁徽","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","王正旭","盧縣一","郭昱晴","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 499.565, \"end\": 499.665, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 499.665, \"end\": 500.565, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 500.565, \"end\": 500.705, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 500.705, \"end\": 500.825, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 500.825, \"end\": 501.526, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 501.526, \"end\": 501.546, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,799 --> 00:00:38,868\n主席好請部長請薛部長部長好委員好辛苦了齁那才剛剛那個蘇丹紅的事件沒有多久又發生我們昨天的那個事件齁那你的推測是什麼昨天我們召開了一些專家會議齁那大概目前的方向是最有可能的是那個米\n\n2\n00:00:40,287 --> 00:00:43,508\n臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告\n\n3\n00:01:04,912 --> 00:01:12,518\n一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就:「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告。」\n\n4\n00:01:30,333 --> 00:01:55,652\n我們談到今天的主題就是我仔細看了你們的精進作為就是關於制度面、實務面跟法制面我就一項一項來看就制度面來看地方政府收出養媒合機構的分工與迴避利益衝突議題那我不知道這件事情你要怎麼來解釋給大眾聽因為我如果就字面上來看我看不懂\n\n5\n00:01:57,293 --> 00:02:25,712\n我簡單講就說以目前的機制的話是由收出養沒有機構就說在這個案子裡面是兒童福利聯盟由他去決定說這個小孩子那迴避利益衝突是在指什麼對就由他來決定說這個小孩子是不是要出養但是因為他在如果這個最後這個小孩子會就是有人要收養了他是可以得到酬勞所以在他的過程當中\n\n6\n00:02:27,534 --> 00:02:54,736\n要去判斷說小孩子是不是出養是對符合他的最佳率小孩子的最佳率跟他自己最後獲得酬勞的是出養這兩個就會有衝突你說應該是在地方政府對不對所以我們希望在未來的話把這個出養的必要性的評估放在地方政府那地方政府的能力夠負擔這些那麼多的\n\n7\n00:02:55,196 --> 00:02:58,219\n第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制,那你們的監督機制有出來了嗎?\n\n8\n00:03:10,553 --> 00:03:22,626\n其實現在是有啦就是說對於這個全日拖的一些監督室跟一般的日拖的這種保姆的話他的要求是有的沒關係下一頁還有我們就先看這個那幼兒專責醫師制度\n\n9\n00:03:27,439 --> 00:03:50,514\n確實可行嗎?當然是可行可是在有些地方就是沒有這些醫師的訓練他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎?我們目前這個盤點過應該沒有問題因為如果沒有小兒科醫師的地方,比方說比較偏遠的地區就通訊上課或者是訓練就可以了如果確實沒有醫生的地方怎麼辦?\n\n10\n00:03:53,655 --> 00:03:53,835\n進行專題報告\n\n11\n00:04:17,626 --> 00:04:40,314\n究竟是多少?是一個禮拜一次還是三天一次還是怎麼樣?這個部分其實是這樣子的我們的意思並不是說單一個社工要去增加他們loading我就是不希望增加他們loading我只要問你說大概是多少?是因為這種特殊的個案會有各個方面的社工就是所以你有分級了比如說這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或者是\n\n12\n00:04:48,682 --> 00:05:01,417\n因注意事項列表,我也沒有看到,所以我希望你們可以大概絕對告訴我列表是哪些嗎?這部分的話我們會討論。那附訪機制的話,附訪機制是指哪些人附訪?\n\n13\n00:05:02,298 --> 00:05:05,079\n這部分的話我們會去加強因為目前在兒童福利聯盟我們的這個去討論的時候\n\n14\n00:05:27,566 --> 00:05:27,906\n主席\n\n15\n00:05:46,817 --> 00:05:47,618\n主席主席主席\n\n16\n00:06:07,672 --> 00:06:33,258\n因為我們知道凱凱的事件就是其實就有這種方式是可以的其實可能只看到了一次後面第二次第三次都沒有看到才會發生這樣的事情所以我們才希望能夠增加視訊的一個所謂的監督啊或者是至少看到小朋友的樣子如果以後護理的方式或者是醫生的方式如果增加了視訊的這方面也就是以後我們所謂的遠距嘛因為如果太遠的地方常常需要遠距是不是這個\n\n17\n00:06:34,198 --> 00:06:40,420\n最後就是法制面的部分你們說以後會兒童及少年福利權益保障法及制定兒童托育服務法這兩個是目前都還沒有嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:59,445 --> 00:07:21,772\n現在都在進行,第一個是這個法是修法,第二個是新的立法那我現在秀出一張照片是昨天有民眾跟我就是希望說我能夠關心的這件事情他這件事情就是3月4號他被保母通知說孩子發生溢奶或者是說所謂的嗆到的事件,就送到平基\n\n19\n00:07:22,492 --> 00:07:28,764\n然後急救,去急救的時候已經有CPR過,也就是說他曾經心肺停止過\n\n20\n00:07:31,125 --> 00:07:52,091\n三月十二號因為病情加重現在現在正在高雄長庚的加護病房那我覺得一個孩子的媽媽可以透過網路來尋求幫忙這是什麼樣的一個時代是不是還沒有一個政府的一個部門去主動關心這件事情嗎從三月四號現在已經幾號了\n\n21\n00:07:56,014 --> 00:08:21,546\n這個應該是屏東縣政府應該是在他的介入當中是可是感覺媽媽很無助啊你看他的內容喔哥我真的求求你們大家幫忙我能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會這樣一個話語是非常無助的母親所說的話那希望你們能夠如果你們有足夠的人力去了解這幾天能夠回覆給我好不好好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12799\t38868\t主席好請部長請薛部長部長好委員好辛苦了齁那才剛剛那個蘇丹紅的事件沒有多久又發生我們昨天的那個事件齁那你的推測是什麼昨天我們召開了一些專家會議齁那大概目前的方向是最有可能的是那個米\n40287\t43508\t臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告\n64912\t72518\t一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就:「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告。」\n90333\t115652\t我們談到今天的主題就是我仔細看了你們的精進作為就是關於制度面、實務面跟法制面我就一項一項來看就制度面來看地方政府收出養媒合機構的分工與迴避利益衝突議題那我不知道這件事情你要怎麼來解釋給大眾聽因為我如果就字面上來看我看不懂\n117293\t145712\t我簡單講就說以目前的機制的話是由收出養沒有機構就說在這個案子裡面是兒童福利聯盟由他去決定說這個小孩子那迴避利益衝突是在指什麼對就由他來決定說這個小孩子是不是要出養但是因為他在如果這個最後這個小孩子會就是有人要收養了他是可以得到酬勞所以在他的過程當中\n147534\t174736\t要去判斷說小孩子是不是出養是對符合他的最佳率小孩子的最佳率跟他自己最後獲得酬勞的是出養這兩個就會有衝突你說應該是在地方政府對不對所以我們希望在未來的話把這個出養的必要性的評估放在地方政府那地方政府的能力夠負擔這些那麼多的\n175196\t178219\t第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制,那你們的監督機制有出來了嗎?\n190553\t202626\t其實現在是有啦就是說對於這個全日拖的一些監督室跟一般的日拖的這種保姆的話他的要求是有的沒關係下一頁還有我們就先看這個那幼兒專責醫師制度\n207439\t230514\t確實可行嗎?當然是可行可是在有些地方就是沒有這些醫師的訓練他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎?我們目前這個盤點過應該沒有問題因為如果沒有小兒科醫師的地方,比方說比較偏遠的地區就通訊上課或者是訓練就可以了如果確實沒有醫生的地方怎麼辦?\n233655\t233835\t進行專題報告\n257626\t280314\t究竟是多少?是一個禮拜一次還是三天一次還是怎麼樣?這個部分其實是這樣子的我們的意思並不是說單一個社工要去增加他們loading我就是不希望增加他們loading我只要問你說大概是多少?是因為這種特殊的個案會有各個方面的社工就是所以你有分級了比如說這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或者是\n288682\t301417\t因注意事項列表,我也沒有看到,所以我希望你們可以大概絕對告訴我列表是哪些嗎?這部分的話我們會討論。那附訪機制的話,附訪機制是指哪些人附訪?\n302298\t305079\t這部分的話我們會去加強因為目前在兒童福利聯盟我們的這個去討論的時候\n327566\t327906\t主席\n346817\t347618\t主席主席主席\n367672\t393258\t因為我們知道凱凱的事件就是其實就有這種方式是可以的其實可能只看到了一次後面第二次第三次都沒有看到才會發生這樣的事情所以我們才希望能夠增加視訊的一個所謂的監督啊或者是至少看到小朋友的樣子如果以後護理的方式或者是醫生的方式如果增加了視訊的這方面也就是以後我們所謂的遠距嘛因為如果太遠的地方常常需要遠距是不是這個\n394198\t400420\t最後就是法制面的部分你們說以後會兒童及少年福利權益保障法及制定兒童托育服務法這兩個是目前都還沒有嗎?\n419445\t441772\t現在都在進行,第一個是這個法是修法,第二個是新的立法那我現在秀出一張照片是昨天有民眾跟我就是希望說我能夠關心的這件事情他這件事情就是3月4號他被保母通知說孩子發生溢奶或者是說所謂的嗆到的事件,就送到平基\n442492\t448764\t然後急救,去急救的時候已經有CPR過,也就是說他曾經心肺停止過\n451125\t472091\t三月十二號因為病情加重現在現在正在高雄長庚的加護病房那我覺得一個孩子的媽媽可以透過網路來尋求幫忙這是什麼樣的一個時代是不是還沒有一個政府的一個部門去主動關心這件事情嗎從三月四號現在已經幾號了\n476014\t501546\t這個應該是屏東縣政府應該是在他的介入當中是可是感覺媽媽很無助啊你看他的內容喔哥我真的求求你們大家幫忙我能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會這樣一個話語是非常無助的母親所說的話那希望你們能夠如果你們有足夠的人力去了解這幾天能夠回覆給我好不好好不好好謝謝\n504292\t504753\t謝謝\n","txt":"主席好請部長請薛部長部長好委員好辛苦了齁那才剛剛那個蘇丹紅的事件沒有多久又發生我們昨天的那個事件齁那你的推測是什麼昨天我們召開了一些專家會議齁那大概目前的方向是最有可能的是那個米\n臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告\n一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就:「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告。」\n我們談到今天的主題就是我仔細看了你們的精進作為就是關於制度面、實務面跟法制面我就一項一項來看就制度面來看地方政府收出養媒合機構的分工與迴避利益衝突議題那我不知道這件事情你要怎麼來解釋給大眾聽因為我如果就字面上來看我看不懂\n我簡單講就說以目前的機制的話是由收出養沒有機構就說在這個案子裡面是兒童福利聯盟由他去決定說這個小孩子那迴避利益衝突是在指什麼對就由他來決定說這個小孩子是不是要出養但是因為他在如果這個最後這個小孩子會就是有人要收養了他是可以得到酬勞所以在他的過程當中\n要去判斷說小孩子是不是出養是對符合他的最佳率小孩子的最佳率跟他自己最後獲得酬勞的是出養這兩個就會有衝突你說應該是在地方政府對不對所以我們希望在未來的話把這個出養的必要性的評估放在地方政府那地方政府的能力夠負擔這些那麼多的\n第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制,那你們的監督機制有出來了嗎?\n其實現在是有啦就是說對於這個全日拖的一些監督室跟一般的日拖的這種保姆的話他的要求是有的沒關係下一頁還有我們就先看這個那幼兒專責醫師制度\n確實可行嗎?當然是可行可是在有些地方就是沒有這些醫師的訓練他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎?我們目前這個盤點過應該沒有問題因為如果沒有小兒科醫師的地方,比方說比較偏遠的地區就通訊上課或者是訓練就可以了如果確實沒有醫生的地方怎麼辦?\n進行專題報告\n究竟是多少?是一個禮拜一次還是三天一次還是怎麼樣?這個部分其實是這樣子的我們的意思並不是說單一個社工要去增加他們loading我就是不希望增加他們loading我只要問你說大概是多少?是因為這種特殊的個案會有各個方面的社工就是所以你有分級了比如說這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或者是\n因注意事項列表,我也沒有看到,所以我希望你們可以大概絕對告訴我列表是哪些嗎?這部分的話我們會討論。那附訪機制的話,附訪機制是指哪些人附訪?\n這部分的話我們會去加強因為目前在兒童福利聯盟我們的這個去討論的時候\n主席\n主席主席主席\n因為我們知道凱凱的事件就是其實就有這種方式是可以的其實可能只看到了一次後面第二次第三次都沒有看到才會發生這樣的事情所以我們才希望能夠增加視訊的一個所謂的監督啊或者是至少看到小朋友的樣子如果以後護理的方式或者是醫生的方式如果增加了視訊的這方面也就是以後我們所謂的遠距嘛因為如果太遠的地方常常需要遠距是不是這個\n最後就是法制面的部分你們說以後會兒童及少年福利權益保障法及制定兒童托育服務法這兩個是目前都還沒有嗎?\n現在都在進行,第一個是這個法是修法,第二個是新的立法那我現在秀出一張照片是昨天有民眾跟我就是希望說我能夠關心的這件事情他這件事情就是3月4號他被保母通知說孩子發生溢奶或者是說所謂的嗆到的事件,就送到平基\n然後急救,去急救的時候已經有CPR過,也就是說他曾經心肺停止過\n三月十二號因為病情加重現在現在正在高雄長庚的加護病房那我覺得一個孩子的媽媽可以透過網路來尋求幫忙這是什麼樣的一個時代是不是還沒有一個政府的一個部門去主動關心這件事情嗎從三月四號現在已經幾號了\n這個應該是屏東縣政府應該是在他的介入當中是可是感覺媽媽很無助啊你看他的內容喔哥我真的求求你們大家幫忙我能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會這樣一個話語是非常無助的母親所說的話那希望你們能夠如果你們有足夠的人力去了解這幾天能夠回覆給我好不好好不好好謝謝\n謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.799 --> 00:38.868\n主席好請部長請薛部長部長好委員好辛苦了齁那才剛剛那個蘇丹紅的事件沒有多久又發生我們昨天的那個事件齁那你的推測是什麼昨天我們召開了一些專家會議齁那大概目前的方向是最有可能的是那個米\n\n00:40.287 --> 00:43.508\n臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告\n\n01:04.912 --> 01:12.518\n一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就:「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告。」\n\n01:30.333 --> 01:55.652\n我們談到今天的主題就是我仔細看了你們的精進作為就是關於制度面、實務面跟法制面我就一項一項來看就制度面來看地方政府收出養媒合機構的分工與迴避利益衝突議題那我不知道這件事情你要怎麼來解釋給大眾聽因為我如果就字面上來看我看不懂\n\n01:57.293 --> 02:25.712\n我簡單講就說以目前的機制的話是由收出養沒有機構就說在這個案子裡面是兒童福利聯盟由他去決定說這個小孩子那迴避利益衝突是在指什麼對就由他來決定說這個小孩子是不是要出養但是因為他在如果這個最後這個小孩子會就是有人要收養了他是可以得到酬勞所以在他的過程當中\n\n02:27.534 --> 02:54.736\n要去判斷說小孩子是不是出養是對符合他的最佳率小孩子的最佳率跟他自己最後獲得酬勞的是出養這兩個就會有衝突你說應該是在地方政府對不對所以我們希望在未來的話把這個出養的必要性的評估放在地方政府那地方政府的能力夠負擔這些那麼多的\n\n02:55.196 --> 02:58.219\n第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制,那你們的監督機制有出來了嗎?\n\n03:10.553 --> 03:22.626\n其實現在是有啦就是說對於這個全日拖的一些監督室跟一般的日拖的這種保姆的話他的要求是有的沒關係下一頁還有我們就先看這個那幼兒專責醫師制度\n\n03:27.439 --> 03:50.514\n確實可行嗎?當然是可行可是在有些地方就是沒有這些醫師的訓練他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎?我們目前這個盤點過應該沒有問題因為如果沒有小兒科醫師的地方,比方說比較偏遠的地區就通訊上課或者是訓練就可以了如果確實沒有醫生的地方怎麼辦?\n\n03:53.655 --> 03:53.835\n進行專題報告\n\n04:17.626 --> 04:40.314\n究竟是多少?是一個禮拜一次還是三天一次還是怎麼樣?這個部分其實是這樣子的我們的意思並不是說單一個社工要去增加他們loading我就是不希望增加他們loading我只要問你說大概是多少?是因為這種特殊的個案會有各個方面的社工就是所以你有分級了比如說這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或者是\n\n04:48.682 --> 05:01.417\n因注意事項列表,我也沒有看到,所以我希望你們可以大概絕對告訴我列表是哪些嗎?這部分的話我們會討論。那附訪機制的話,附訪機制是指哪些人附訪?\n\n05:02.298 --> 05:05.079\n這部分的話我們會去加強因為目前在兒童福利聯盟我們的這個去討論的時候\n\n05:27.566 --> 05:27.906\n主席\n\n05:46.817 --> 05:47.618\n主席主席主席\n\n06:07.672 --> 06:33.258\n因為我們知道凱凱的事件就是其實就有這種方式是可以的其實可能只看到了一次後面第二次第三次都沒有看到才會發生這樣的事情所以我們才希望能夠增加視訊的一個所謂的監督啊或者是至少看到小朋友的樣子如果以後護理的方式或者是醫生的方式如果增加了視訊的這方面也就是以後我們所謂的遠距嘛因為如果太遠的地方常常需要遠距是不是這個\n\n06:34.198 --> 06:40.420\n最後就是法制面的部分你們說以後會兒童及少年福利權益保障法及制定兒童托育服務法這兩個是目前都還沒有嗎?\n\n06:59.445 --> 07:21.772\n現在都在進行,第一個是這個法是修法,第二個是新的立法那我現在秀出一張照片是昨天有民眾跟我就是希望說我能夠關心的這件事情他這件事情就是3月4號他被保母通知說孩子發生溢奶或者是說所謂的嗆到的事件,就送到平基\n\n07:22.492 --> 07:28.764\n然後急救,去急救的時候已經有CPR過,也就是說他曾經心肺停止過\n\n07:31.125 --> 07:52.091\n三月十二號因為病情加重現在現在正在高雄長庚的加護病房那我覺得一個孩子的媽媽可以透過網路來尋求幫忙這是什麼樣的一個時代是不是還沒有一個政府的一個部門去主動關心這件事情嗎從三月四號現在已經幾號了\n\n07:56.014 --> 08:21.546\n這個應該是屏東縣政府應該是在他的介入當中是可是感覺媽媽很無助啊你看他的內容喔哥我真的求求你們大家幫忙我能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會這樣一個話語是非常無助的母親所說的話那希望你們能夠如果你們有足夠的人力去了解這幾天能夠回覆給我好不好好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.799,"end":38.868,"text":"主席好請部長請薛部長部長好委員好辛苦了齁那才剛剛那個蘇丹紅的事件沒有多久又發生我們昨天的那個事件齁那你的推測是什麼昨天我們召開了一些專家會議齁那大概目前的方向是最有可能的是那個米"},{"start":40.287,"end":43.508,"text":"臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告"},{"start":64.912,"end":72.518,"text":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部次長就:「出養童遭虐致死事件檢討會議要求新北市政府、臺北市政府及兒童福利聯盟所提供之檢討報告。」"},{"start":90.333,"end":115.652,"text":"我們談到今天的主題就是我仔細看了你們的精進作為就是關於制度面、實務面跟法制面我就一項一項來看就制度面來看地方政府收出養媒合機構的分工與迴避利益衝突議題那我不知道這件事情你要怎麼來解釋給大眾聽因為我如果就字面上來看我看不懂"},{"start":117.293,"end":145.712,"text":"我簡單講就說以目前的機制的話是由收出養沒有機構就說在這個案子裡面是兒童福利聯盟由他去決定說這個小孩子那迴避利益衝突是在指什麼對就由他來決定說這個小孩子是不是要出養但是因為他在如果這個最後這個小孩子會就是有人要收養了他是可以得到酬勞所以在他的過程當中"},{"start":147.534,"end":174.736,"text":"要去判斷說小孩子是不是出養是對符合他的最佳率小孩子的最佳率跟他自己最後獲得酬勞的是出養這兩個就會有衝突你說應該是在地方政府對不對所以我們希望在未來的話把這個出養的必要性的評估放在地方政府那地方政府的能力夠負擔這些那麼多的"},{"start":175.196,"end":178.219,"text":"第二項就是保母全日托的監督機制,那你們的監督機制有出來了嗎?"},{"start":190.553,"end":202.626,"text":"其實現在是有啦就是說對於這個全日拖的一些監督室跟一般的日拖的這種保姆的話他的要求是有的沒關係下一頁還有我們就先看這個那幼兒專責醫師制度"},{"start":207.439,"end":230.514,"text":"確實可行嗎?當然是可行可是在有些地方就是沒有這些醫師的訓練他們有足夠的醫師量來做這些事情嗎?我們目前這個盤點過應該沒有問題因為如果沒有小兒科醫師的地方,比方說比較偏遠的地區就通訊上課或者是訓練就可以了如果確實沒有醫生的地方怎麼辦?"},{"start":233.655,"end":233.835,"text":"進行專題報告"},{"start":257.626,"end":280.314,"text":"究竟是多少?是一個禮拜一次還是三天一次還是怎麼樣?這個部分其實是這樣子的我們的意思並不是說單一個社工要去增加他們loading我就是不希望增加他們loading我只要問你說大概是多少?是因為這種特殊的個案會有各個方面的社工就是所以你有分級了比如說這個小朋友是屬於脆弱家庭或者是"},{"start":288.682,"end":301.417,"text":"因注意事項列表,我也沒有看到,所以我希望你們可以大概絕對告訴我列表是哪些嗎?這部分的話我們會討論。那附訪機制的話,附訪機制是指哪些人附訪?"},{"start":302.298,"end":305.079,"text":"這部分的話我們會去加強因為目前在兒童福利聯盟我們的這個去討論的時候"},{"start":327.566,"end":327.906,"text":"主席"},{"start":346.817,"end":347.618,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":367.672,"end":393.258,"text":"因為我們知道凱凱的事件就是其實就有這種方式是可以的其實可能只看到了一次後面第二次第三次都沒有看到才會發生這樣的事情所以我們才希望能夠增加視訊的一個所謂的監督啊或者是至少看到小朋友的樣子如果以後護理的方式或者是醫生的方式如果增加了視訊的這方面也就是以後我們所謂的遠距嘛因為如果太遠的地方常常需要遠距是不是這個"},{"start":394.198,"end":400.42,"text":"最後就是法制面的部分你們說以後會兒童及少年福利權益保障法及制定兒童托育服務法這兩個是目前都還沒有嗎?"},{"start":419.445,"end":441.772,"text":"現在都在進行,第一個是這個法是修法,第二個是新的立法那我現在秀出一張照片是昨天有民眾跟我就是希望說我能夠關心的這件事情他這件事情就是3月4號他被保母通知說孩子發生溢奶或者是說所謂的嗆到的事件,就送到平基"},{"start":442.492,"end":448.764,"text":"然後急救,去急救的時候已經有CPR過,也就是說他曾經心肺停止過"},{"start":451.125,"end":472.091,"text":"三月十二號因為病情加重現在現在正在高雄長庚的加護病房那我覺得一個孩子的媽媽可以透過網路來尋求幫忙這是什麼樣的一個時代是不是還沒有一個政府的一個部門去主動關心這件事情嗎從三月四號現在已經幾號了"},{"start":476.014,"end":501.546,"text":"這個應該是屏東縣政府應該是在他的介入當中是可是感覺媽媽很無助啊你看他的內容喔哥我真的求求你們大家幫忙我能多一個人看到對我們來說都是一個機會這樣一個話語是非常無助的母親所說的話那希望你們能夠如果你們有足夠的人力去了解這幾天能夠回覆給我好不好好不好好謝謝"},{"start":504.292,"end":504.753,"text":"謝謝"}]}}}}