{"id":150617,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150617","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf4565c50f85e7bbbc35da83422e330f45f8ba9b0039caa7a648780db23e8b7b075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"09:37:35 - 09:47:36","影片長度":"00:10:01","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢。\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等 6案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-10"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":601,"end_time":"2024-03-28T09:47:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T09:37:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":161,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（9時37分）謝謝主席，麻煩請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["田次長光中：召委早。"],["王委員定宇：次長早。美國總統大選及國會改選對印太和臺灣來講，大體來看，你有什麼評價，對這邊有什麼衝擊影響？"],["田次長光中：因為就現在整個局勢來說，美中的競逐非常非常激烈，我覺得各方競逐最重要的一塊地方就是印太地區，這也就是2017年川普所提出的印太戰略……"],["王委員定宇：我其實不是要你報告，我只要一句話的評價，我不曉得我們的看法一不一樣，未來的前景應該算是光明，但是充滿了隱憂，這樣的評價不知道對不對？隱憂大概有兩個，一個是你剛才提到的中國在印太地區的威脅，美國在這邊當然跟它是呈現一個緊張的狀態；其實還有一個隱憂，我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國內部的政治局勢，我們也應該要關心、關注。印太地區對別人來講是一個地區，對我們來講是我們家，我們就住在這裡，臺灣就是我們的國家，我們就住在這裡，所以在這些充滿好的部分當中，我們也要看出隱憂的部分，然後來做處理。","第一個要請教的是，這是正面的，拜登簽署2024年綜合撥款法案，這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算，這是美國怕國會吵太久，預算沒辦法用，怕聯邦政府關門，所以撥了1兆2,000萬美金維持政府運作到9月底、10月1日，我這樣詮釋沒有錯吧？這是綜合撥款法，是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的撥款法。既然它是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門，也滿有意思的，它把臺灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面，你怎麼看這個事情？是美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項，包含對臺的事務嗎？外交部怎麼看這個事情？"],["田次長中光：如果我們再看大一點的，那裡面您如果有看過，它是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資（FMF）……"],["王委員定宇：對，這個我待會會問。"],["田次長中光：是的。"],["王委員定宇：臺灣放在這一個綜合撥款法案裡面，其實是滿有意義的，年度剛放了一個項目，在年度的預算有，那個是一個意義，我說在撥款法案裡面把臺灣放進去，表示聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟臺灣相關的議題……"],["田次長中光：非常重視。"],["王委員定宇：其實是他們認為國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項，所以有三筆，第一個是不少於3億美金，很有意思喔，它把金額寫出來，而且不少於3億美金，這個叫直接軍援，直接給你的。請問一下，你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途？外交部知不知道？"],["田次長中光：大概就是提供我們購買武器的一些無償軍援，還有人員訓練等等。"],["王委員定宇：不只阿！還有訓練，還有一些安全事務。我的意思是美方通常提供直接軍援會在前期跟該國進行磋商你需要什麼，而不是他要給我們什麼，我們就收什麼，雙方是要進行磋商的。外交部知不知道這個不少於3億美金的直接軍援，跟臺灣的磋商項目有哪些？不能講就不能講，可以講的話可以讓大家知道一下。"],["田次長中光：我想這個部分可能國防部掌握的比較精準，外交部這方面就不便先講出來。"],["王委員定宇：那放在這裡面的意義是什麼？"],["田次長中光：當然是協助我們能夠建立國防自主。"],["王委員定宇：所以是安全議題（security issues），對美國來講，就是臺灣的……"],["田次長中光：安全，培養我們的不對稱戰力。"],["王委員定宇：那是子用途，你又不講用途，你現在跟我詮釋不對稱作戰，他要送我們什麼東西？有啦，有些項目啦！但是這個讓國防部談比較好。我的意思是把這不少於3億美金的FMF grants，其實它的意義是臺灣區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益，他把這個放在綜合撥款，政府不能停止運作裡面，否則放到10月也沒關係啊！為什麼一定要在這個時候，而且是不是在9月底之前，這筆錢就要動用？"],["王司長良玉：它是授權撥款，但是現在運用的地方……"],["王委員定宇：授權撥款不一定要用，但是它在這個期間才能撥款，這個撥款的期限是到9月底嘛？"],["王司長良玉：就是有這個authorization，至於說運用的……"],["王委員定宇：我授權給你，總統要不要用是他的事情，但期間是到9月底嘛？"],["王司長良玉：是到這個會計年度，會計年度是9月底。"],["王委員定宇：到這個會計年度，OK。另外，國際安全合作計畫有2,600萬美金，這個要做什麼？"],["王司長良玉：這個是在Indo-Pacific的INDOPACOM的項下可以支用的，就是……"],["王委員定宇：它用在軍事，還是用在外交的事務？"],["王司長良玉：它裡面沒有specifically說怎麼用，但它是列在，如果我沒有記錯的話……"],["王委員定宇：動支的決定權，這個是要給臺灣嘛？"],["王司長良玉：用在跟臺灣的安全合作。"],["王委員定宇：安全合作？"],["王司長良玉：對！"],["王委員定宇：所以安全合作的細項沒有出來？"],["王司長良玉：就是大家討論。"],["王委員定宇：軍事訓練算不算？"],["王司長良玉：這個的話，可能還是請國防部那邊能夠提供比較詳細的資訊。"],["王委員定宇：好。第三個，你們就要講清楚了，400萬美金的GCTF。"],["王司長良玉：是。"],["王委員定宇：這個是跟我們合作嘛，我們在全球在做這個，大概用途用在哪裡？"],["王司長良玉：其實美國是從2022年就開始在每年度的撥款法案下面……"],["王委員定宇：都有放這個啊？"],["王司長良玉：能夠撥勻一些GCTF的……"],["王委員定宇：動支是我們有決定權，還是雙方要磋商？"],["王司長良玉：其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺、美拓展到跟日本，還有澳大利亞，所以我們每年會開一個joint committee去討論我們今年在GCTF的角色。"],["王委員定宇：所以GCTF這一個平臺可以說是美、日、澳、臺的合作平臺？"],["王司長良玉：現在大家都是合作夥伴。"],["王委員定宇：所以我們期待這個平臺有更大發展空間。"],["王司長良玉：是。"],["王委員定宇：我還是要講一下隱憂啦！因為時間的關係，有兩個隱憂，你看「太平洋衝突壓力測試法案」是美國三個州，即亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾伊州，他們有一個基礎，他們認為要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武，它必須評估三件事情，第一個，美國的基礎水電設施會不會被中國攻擊、截斷，這個對臺灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施，臺灣當然更加要去思考這個問題。第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候，供應鏈中斷的衝擊與影響，以及他們要因應的方式。所以這一個測試法案除了顯示臺灣對美國來講很重要以外，我為什麼說這是隱憂呢？如果供應鏈中斷，對美國衝擊影響很大，基於美國的國家利益，他只有兩種作法，第一種想辦法降低臺灣的重要性，免得中斷的時候他受不了，這很正常啊！可是降低不了的時候，一面當然還要保護臺灣，避免臺灣受損，導致美國國家利益受損，有兩種思維，這兩個可以同時存在，未必是競合。所以對外交部來講，你們有沒有在關注美國這個氛圍，連晶片其實也在這個邏輯下，就是晶片供應臺灣太重要了，臺灣的重要性，就照布林肯講的那句話：臺灣這邊如果發生衝突的話，全球經濟可能會毀掉。這是布林肯講的話，歐盟有類似的評估報告。","所以當美國州政府都開始提「太平洋衝突壓力測試法案」，它指的可能是臺灣，可能是東海，可能是南海，在這樣情形下，外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說？當然一方面臺灣要維持我們的重要性，有的重要性是改不了的啦！我們的戰略位置重要，除非我們開走，要不然我們停在這裡，就是戰略位置重要，民主自由價值重要，這個都改不了的，但是供應鏈的重要性、經濟的power是很重要的。所以我請教一下，外交部怎麼去看待美國，如果我們的重要性被降下來的話，其實對我們安全也是有影響的，外交部怎麼評估這個事情？"],["田次長中光：當然我們要維持我們對美國的重要性，這非常重要，比如說我們的高科技是不是做某種程度diversify，這個我覺得我們已經在做了。"],["王委員定宇：我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力，國防實力要提升，但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴，這也是安全之道。我本來另外有一個題目是有關援助烏克蘭、以色列臺灣的法案，我希望私下瞭解，你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern，就是一個分裂的決策、一個延宕，臺灣也應該要有我們的態度，對美國政界的好朋友，以好朋友的角度表達我們對美國是不是會走向內政為主的姑息主義，或者他的決策、內部的分歧對盟友之間是不是引起我們的擔心，我們的這段話希望也讓美國的朋友能夠聽見，好不好？謝謝次長。"],["田次長中光：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請馬文君委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-10","speakers":["王定宇","林楚茵","羅美玲","馬文君","洪申翰","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","黃國昌","李坤城","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","陳培瑜","林憶君","陳永康","羅智強"],"page_start":179,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請外交部部長報告「美國2024年大選過程對我國及印太地區的衝擊及影響」，並備質詢；\n二、處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等6案","agenda_id":"1132101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"150617","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150617","tool":"pyannote","id":"150617-pyannote"},"job_id":"kE3oZMZnruhtjVLb","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"text\": \"美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 139.775, \"end\": 140.536, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 140.536, \"end\": 140.856, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"急\", \"start\": 140.856, \"end\": 141.377, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 141.377, \"end\": 141.537, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 141.537, \"end\": 141.657, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 141.657, \"end\": 141.757, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 141.757, \"end\": 141.918, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 141.918, \"end\": 142.118, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 142.118, \"end\": 142.378, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 142.378, \"end\": 142.839, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": 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00:01:03,049\n未來的前景應該算是光明但是充滿了隱憂這樣評價不知道對不對隱憂大概有兩個一個是你剛才提到中國在印太地區的威脅那美國在這邊當然跟他是呈現一個緊張的狀態其實還有一個隱憂\n\n4\n00:01:06,252 --> 00:01:30,105\n就是我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國的內部的政治局勢我們也應該要關心關注所以印太地區對別人來講是一個地區對我們來講是我們家我們就住在這裡台灣就是我們的國家我們就住在這裡所以這一些充滿好的部分我們也要看出來隱憂的部分然後來做處理所以第一個要請教的\n\n5\n00:01:31,686 --> 00:01:44,641\n這正面的啦這好像是第一次不是第一次這個是拜登簽署2024年的綜合撥款法案這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算這是美國\n\n6\n00:01:45,902 --> 00:02:06,354\n怕國會吵太久那個預算沒辦法用怕聯邦政府關門所以把撥了一個一兆兩千萬美金維持政府運作到9月底吧10月1號嘛我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛所以這是一個綜合撥款法是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的一個撥款法\n\n7\n00:02:07,461 --> 00:02:18,351\n所以既然他是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門蠻有意思的他把台灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面你怎麼看這個事情\n\n8\n00:02:19,775 --> 00:02:36,195\n美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。\n\n9\n00:02:39,264 --> 00:03:04,185\n那裏面您如果看過他是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資FMF這個我待會問是的就台灣放在他這一個綜合撥款法案裏面其實是蠻有意義的年度剛放了一個項目那個年度的預算有那個是一個意義我說在撥款法案裏面把它們放進去表示說聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟台灣相關的議題其實是裏面他們認為\n\n10\n00:03:05,766 --> 00:03:23,275\n是他們國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項所以有三筆第一個是不少於3億美金很有意思他把金額寫出來而且不少於3億美金這個叫直接軍援直接給你的請問一下你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途\n\n11\n00:03:24,517 --> 00:03:32,842\n外交部知不知道?外交部知不知道他不少於3億美金的直接軍援跟台灣磋商的項目有哪些不能講就不能講可以講可以讓大家知道一下\n\n12\n00:03:53,277 --> 00:04:14,549\n我想這個部份可能國防部部長掌握得比較精準,好,外交部這方面就不必先講出來。那放在這裡面的意義是什麼?當然是協助我們能夠建立我們那個國防自主安全議題,然後不對稱戰力,培養不對稱戰力。你不講用途,你現在要跟我詮釋不對稱戰力,來,他要送我們什麼東西?\n\n13\n00:04:22,984 --> 00:04:47,423\n有啦有些項目啦但是這個讓國防部談比較我的意思說把這不少於3億美金的FMFgrant其實它的意義是臺灣這個區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益在他綜合撥款政府不能停止運作裡面他把這個放在裡面否則他放到10月也沒關係啊為什麼一定要這個時候而且是不是在9月底之前這筆錢就要動用\n\n14\n00:04:51,464 --> 00:04:53,244\n國際安和計劃有2600萬美金,這個要做什麼?\n\n15\n00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:48,516\n他這個主要是這個的話他是在那個印度PACIFIC的這個印度PACON的那個向下是可以支用的對就是他用在軍事還是用在就是安全合作的他沒有裡面沒有specifically是說怎麼用但是他是列在那凍資的決定權就是他這個是要給台灣嗎用在跟台灣的安全合作對安全合作對所以安全合作項目細項沒有出來\n\n16\n00:05:49,564 --> 00:06:06,804\n就是大家討論軍事訓練算不算這個的話可能就還是我們請那個國防部那邊能夠提供第三個你們就要講清楚了400萬美金的GCTF這個是跟我們合作我們在全球在做這個大概用途用在哪裡\n\n17\n00:06:08,458 --> 00:06:34,874\n其實美國它是從2022年就開始在它每年度的撥款法案下面都有放這個啊那凍結的是由我們有決定權還是雙方要磋商?其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺美已經拓展到跟日本還有澳大利亞所以呢我們每年會開一個JointCommittee去討論我們今年在所以GCTF這一個平台可以說是每\n\n18\n00:06:35,856 --> 00:06:54,065\n日、澳、台的一個合作平台所以這個平台我們期待他有更大發展空間我還是要講一下隱憂因為時間關係我兩個隱憂你看太平洋衝突壓力測試法案是美國三個州亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾州他們有一個基礎他們認為\n\n19\n00:06:55,646 --> 00:07:19,213\n他們要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武他必須評估三件事情第一個美國的基礎的水電設施會不會被中國攻擊截斷那這個對台灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施台灣當然要更加要去思考這個問題第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候\n\n20\n00:07:21,482 --> 00:07:29,874\n公認鏈中斷的衝擊與影響以及他們要因應的方式所以這一個測試法案所顯示臺灣\n\n21\n00:07:31,736 --> 00:08:00,422\n對美國來講很重要以外我為什麼說這是隱憂呢?如果供應鏈中斷對美國衝擊影響很大基於美國的國家利益他只有兩種做法第一種想辦法降低台灣的重要性免得中斷的時候我受不了啊這很正常啊可是我降低不了的時候我一面我當然還要保護台灣避免台灣受損導致美國國家利益受損有兩種思維這兩個可以同時存在啦未必是競合\n\n22\n00:08:01,823 --> 00:08:29,920\n所以對外交部來講這個你們有沒有在關注到美國這個氛圍就是說連晶片其實也是在這個邏輯下就是說晶片供應台灣太重要了台灣的重要性就照布林肯講那句話台灣這邊如果發生衝突的話全球經濟可能會毀掉這是布林肯講的話歐盟有類似的評估報告所以當美國州政府都開始提這個太平洋衝突壓力測試法案他指的可能是台灣可能是東海可能是南太\n\n23\n00:08:31,526 --> 00:08:32,633\n不是南海那個南海\n\n24\n00:08:34,158 --> 00:09:03,838\n在這樣情形下外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說當然一方面台灣要維持我們的重要性有的重要性是改不了的啦我們的戰略位置重要除非我們開走要不然我們停在這裡他就是戰略位置重要民主自由價值重要這個都改不了的但是供應鏈的重要性經濟的這個power這個是很重要所以我請教一下外交部怎麼去看待美國如果我們的重要性被降下來的話其實對我們安全也是有影響的喔外交部怎麼評估這個事情\n\n25\n00:09:04,718 --> 00:09:15,828\n當然我們要維持我們對美國的一個重要性這非常重要那麼我們在比如說我們這個高科技是不是做某種程度的diversify\n\n26\n00:09:16,947 --> 00:09:41,190\n這個我覺得我們已經在做了我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力國防實力要提升但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴這也是安全之道我反而另外題目是有關這個援助烏克蘭以色列台灣的法案我希望私下了解你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern就是一個分裂的決策一個延宕\n\n27\n00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:42,950\n謝謝市長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n777\t14523\t有請次長次長早美國中共大選跟國會的改選對印太跟臺灣來講大體來看你有什麼評價對這邊有什麼衝擊影響\n21345\t23626\t我其實不是要你報告你一句話的評價我不曉得我們看法也不一樣\n47697\t63049\t未來的前景應該算是光明但是充滿了隱憂這樣評價不知道對不對隱憂大概有兩個一個是你剛才提到中國在印太地區的威脅那美國在這邊當然跟他是呈現一個緊張的狀態其實還有一個隱憂\n66252\t90105\t就是我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國的內部的政治局勢我們也應該要關心關注所以印太地區對別人來講是一個地區對我們來講是我們家我們就住在這裡台灣就是我們的國家我們就住在這裡所以這一些充滿好的部分我們也要看出來隱憂的部分然後來做處理所以第一個要請教的\n91686\t104641\t這正面的啦這好像是第一次不是第一次這個是拜登簽署2024年的綜合撥款法案這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算這是美國\n105902\t126354\t怕國會吵太久那個預算沒辦法用怕聯邦政府關門所以把撥了一個一兆兩千萬美金維持政府運作到9月底吧10月1號嘛我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛所以這是一個綜合撥款法是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的一個撥款法\n127461\t138351\t所以既然他是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門蠻有意思的他把台灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面你怎麼看這個事情\n139775\t156195\t美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。\n159264\t184185\t那裏面您如果看過他是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資FMF這個我待會問 是的就台灣放在他這一個綜合撥款法案裏面其實是蠻有意義的年度剛放了一個項目那個年度的預算有那個是一個意義我說在撥款法案裏面把它們放進去表示說聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟台灣相關的議題其實是裏面他們認為\n185766\t203275\t是他們國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項所以有三筆第一個是不少於3億美金很有意思他把金額寫出來而且不少於3億美金這個叫直接軍援直接給你的請問一下你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途\n204517\t212842\t外交部知不知道?外交部知不知道他不少於3億美金的直接軍援跟台灣磋商的項目有哪些不能講就不能講可以講可以讓大家知道一下\n233277\t254549\t我想這個部份可能國防部部長掌握得比較精準,好,外交部這方面就不必先講出來。那放在這裡面的意義是什麼?當然是協助我們能夠建立我們那個國防自主安全議題,然後不對稱戰力,培養不對稱戰力。你不講用途,你現在要跟我詮釋不對稱戰力,來,他要送我們什麼東西?\n262984\t287423\t有啦有些項目啦但是這個讓國防部談比較我的意思說把這不少於3億美金的FMF grant其實它的意義是臺灣這個區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益在他綜合撥款政府不能停止運作裡面他把這個放在裡面否則他放到10月也沒關係啊為什麼一定要這個時候而且是不是在9月底之前這筆錢就要動用\n291464\t293244\t國際安和計劃有2600萬美金,這個要做什麼?\n320840\t348516\t他這個主要是這個的話他是在那個印度PACIFIC的這個印度PACON的那個向下是可以支用的對就是他用在軍事還是用在就是安全合作的他沒有裡面沒有specifically是說怎麼用但是他是列在那凍資的決定權就是他這個是要給台灣嗎用在跟台灣的安全合作對安全合作對所以安全合作項目細項沒有出來\n349564\t366804\t就是大家討論軍事訓練算不算這個的話可能就還是我們請那個國防部那邊能夠提供第三個你們就要講清楚了400萬美金的GCTF這個是跟我們合作我們在全球在做這個大概用途用在哪裡\n368458\t394874\t其實美國它是從2022年就開始在它每年度的撥款法案下面都有放這個啊那凍結的是由我們有決定權還是雙方要磋商?其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺美已經拓展到跟日本還有澳大利亞所以呢我們每年會開一個Joint Committee去討論我們今年在所以GCTF這一個平台可以說是每\n395856\t414065\t日、澳、台的一個合作平台所以這個平台我們期待他有更大發展空間我還是要講一下隱憂因為時間關係我兩個隱憂你看太平洋衝突壓力測試法案是美國三個州亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾州他們有一個基礎他們認為\n415646\t439213\t他們要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武他必須評估三件事情第一個美國的基礎的水電設施會不會被中國攻擊截斷那這個對台灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施台灣當然要更加要去思考這個問題第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候\n441482\t449874\t公認鏈中斷的衝擊與影響以及他們要因應的方式所以這一個測試法案所顯示臺灣\n451736\t480422\t對美國來講很重要以外我為什麼說這是隱憂呢?如果供應鏈中斷對美國衝擊影響很大基於美國的國家利益他只有兩種做法第一種想辦法降低台灣的重要性免得中斷的時候我受不了啊這很正常啊可是我降低不了的時候我一面我當然還要保護台灣避免台灣受損導致美國國家利益受損有兩種思維這兩個可以同時存在啦未必是競合\n481823\t509920\t所以對外交部來講這個你們有沒有在關注到美國這個氛圍就是說連晶片其實也是在這個邏輯下就是說晶片供應台灣太重要了台灣的重要性就照布林肯講那句話台灣這邊如果發生衝突的話全球經濟可能會毀掉這是布林肯講的話歐盟有類似的評估報告所以當美國州政府都開始提這個太平洋衝突壓力測試法案他指的可能是台灣可能是東海可能是南太\n511526\t512633\t不是南海 那個南海\n514158\t543838\t在這樣情形下外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說當然一方面台灣要維持我們的重要性有的重要性是改不了的啦我們的戰略位置重要除非我們開走要不然我們停在這裡他就是戰略位置重要民主自由價值重要這個都改不了的但是供應鏈的重要性經濟的這個power這個是很重要所以我請教一下外交部怎麼去看待美國如果我們的重要性被降下來的話其實對我們安全也是有影響的喔外交部怎麼評估這個事情\n544718\t555828\t當然我們要維持我們對美國的一個重要性 這非常重要那麼我們在比如說我們這個高科技是不是做某種程度的diversify\n556947\t581190\t這個我覺得我們已經在做了我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力國防實力要提升但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴這也是安全之道我反而另外題目是有關這個援助烏克蘭以色列台灣的法案我希望私下了解你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern就是一個分裂的決策一個延宕\n582930\t582950\t謝謝市長。\n","txt":"有請次長次長早美國中共大選跟國會的改選對印太跟臺灣來講大體來看你有什麼評價對這邊有什麼衝擊影響\n我其實不是要你報告你一句話的評價我不曉得我們看法也不一樣\n未來的前景應該算是光明但是充滿了隱憂這樣評價不知道對不對隱憂大概有兩個一個是你剛才提到中國在印太地區的威脅那美國在這邊當然跟他是呈現一個緊張的狀態其實還有一個隱憂\n就是我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國的內部的政治局勢我們也應該要關心關注所以印太地區對別人來講是一個地區對我們來講是我們家我們就住在這裡台灣就是我們的國家我們就住在這裡所以這一些充滿好的部分我們也要看出來隱憂的部分然後來做處理所以第一個要請教的\n這正面的啦這好像是第一次不是第一次這個是拜登簽署2024年的綜合撥款法案這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算這是美國\n怕國會吵太久那個預算沒辦法用怕聯邦政府關門所以把撥了一個一兆兩千萬美金維持政府運作到9月底吧10月1號嘛我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛所以這是一個綜合撥款法是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的一個撥款法\n所以既然他是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門蠻有意思的他把台灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面你怎麼看這個事情\n美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。\n那裏面您如果看過他是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資FMF這個我待會問 是的就台灣放在他這一個綜合撥款法案裏面其實是蠻有意義的年度剛放了一個項目那個年度的預算有那個是一個意義我說在撥款法案裏面把它們放進去表示說聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟台灣相關的議題其實是裏面他們認為\n是他們國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項所以有三筆第一個是不少於3億美金很有意思他把金額寫出來而且不少於3億美金這個叫直接軍援直接給你的請問一下你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途\n外交部知不知道?外交部知不知道他不少於3億美金的直接軍援跟台灣磋商的項目有哪些不能講就不能講可以講可以讓大家知道一下\n我想這個部份可能國防部部長掌握得比較精準,好,外交部這方面就不必先講出來。那放在這裡面的意義是什麼?當然是協助我們能夠建立我們那個國防自主安全議題,然後不對稱戰力,培養不對稱戰力。你不講用途,你現在要跟我詮釋不對稱戰力,來,他要送我們什麼東西?\n有啦有些項目啦但是這個讓國防部談比較我的意思說把這不少於3億美金的FMF grant其實它的意義是臺灣這個區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益在他綜合撥款政府不能停止運作裡面他把這個放在裡面否則他放到10月也沒關係啊為什麼一定要這個時候而且是不是在9月底之前這筆錢就要動用\n國際安和計劃有2600萬美金,這個要做什麼?\n他這個主要是這個的話他是在那個印度PACIFIC的這個印度PACON的那個向下是可以支用的對就是他用在軍事還是用在就是安全合作的他沒有裡面沒有specifically是說怎麼用但是他是列在那凍資的決定權就是他這個是要給台灣嗎用在跟台灣的安全合作對安全合作對所以安全合作項目細項沒有出來\n就是大家討論軍事訓練算不算這個的話可能就還是我們請那個國防部那邊能夠提供第三個你們就要講清楚了400萬美金的GCTF這個是跟我們合作我們在全球在做這個大概用途用在哪裡\n其實美國它是從2022年就開始在它每年度的撥款法案下面都有放這個啊那凍結的是由我們有決定權還是雙方要磋商?其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺美已經拓展到跟日本還有澳大利亞所以呢我們每年會開一個Joint Committee去討論我們今年在所以GCTF這一個平台可以說是每\n日、澳、台的一個合作平台所以這個平台我們期待他有更大發展空間我還是要講一下隱憂因為時間關係我兩個隱憂你看太平洋衝突壓力測試法案是美國三個州亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾州他們有一個基礎他們認為\n他們要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武他必須評估三件事情第一個美國的基礎的水電設施會不會被中國攻擊截斷那這個對台灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施台灣當然要更加要去思考這個問題第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候\n公認鏈中斷的衝擊與影響以及他們要因應的方式所以這一個測試法案所顯示臺灣\n對美國來講很重要以外我為什麼說這是隱憂呢?如果供應鏈中斷對美國衝擊影響很大基於美國的國家利益他只有兩種做法第一種想辦法降低台灣的重要性免得中斷的時候我受不了啊這很正常啊可是我降低不了的時候我一面我當然還要保護台灣避免台灣受損導致美國國家利益受損有兩種思維這兩個可以同時存在啦未必是競合\n所以對外交部來講這個你們有沒有在關注到美國這個氛圍就是說連晶片其實也是在這個邏輯下就是說晶片供應台灣太重要了台灣的重要性就照布林肯講那句話台灣這邊如果發生衝突的話全球經濟可能會毀掉這是布林肯講的話歐盟有類似的評估報告所以當美國州政府都開始提這個太平洋衝突壓力測試法案他指的可能是台灣可能是東海可能是南太\n不是南海 那個南海\n在這樣情形下外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說當然一方面台灣要維持我們的重要性有的重要性是改不了的啦我們的戰略位置重要除非我們開走要不然我們停在這裡他就是戰略位置重要民主自由價值重要這個都改不了的但是供應鏈的重要性經濟的這個power這個是很重要所以我請教一下外交部怎麼去看待美國如果我們的重要性被降下來的話其實對我們安全也是有影響的喔外交部怎麼評估這個事情\n當然我們要維持我們對美國的一個重要性 這非常重要那麼我們在比如說我們這個高科技是不是做某種程度的diversify\n這個我覺得我們已經在做了我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力國防實力要提升但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴這也是安全之道我反而另外題目是有關這個援助烏克蘭以色列台灣的法案我希望私下了解你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern就是一個分裂的決策一個延宕\n謝謝市長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.777 --> 00:14.523\n有請次長次長早美國中共大選跟國會的改選對印太跟臺灣來講大體來看你有什麼評價對這邊有什麼衝擊影響\n\n00:21.345 --> 00:23.626\n我其實不是要你報告你一句話的評價我不曉得我們看法也不一樣\n\n00:47.697 --> 01:03.049\n未來的前景應該算是光明但是充滿了隱憂這樣評價不知道對不對隱憂大概有兩個一個是你剛才提到中國在印太地區的威脅那美國在這邊當然跟他是呈現一個緊張的狀態其實還有一個隱憂\n\n01:06.252 --> 01:30.105\n就是我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國的內部的政治局勢我們也應該要關心關注所以印太地區對別人來講是一個地區對我們來講是我們家我們就住在這裡台灣就是我們的國家我們就住在這裡所以這一些充滿好的部分我們也要看出來隱憂的部分然後來做處理所以第一個要請教的\n\n01:31.686 --> 01:44.641\n這正面的啦這好像是第一次不是第一次這個是拜登簽署2024年的綜合撥款法案這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算這是美國\n\n01:45.902 --> 02:06.354\n怕國會吵太久那個預算沒辦法用怕聯邦政府關門所以把撥了一個一兆兩千萬美金維持政府運作到9月底吧10月1號嘛我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛所以這是一個綜合撥款法是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的一個撥款法\n\n02:07.461 --> 02:18.351\n所以既然他是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門蠻有意思的他把台灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面你怎麼看這個事情\n\n02:19.775 --> 02:36.195\n美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。\n\n02:39.264 --> 03:04.185\n那裏面您如果看過他是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資FMF這個我待會問是的就台灣放在他這一個綜合撥款法案裏面其實是蠻有意義的年度剛放了一個項目那個年度的預算有那個是一個意義我說在撥款法案裏面把它們放進去表示說聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟台灣相關的議題其實是裏面他們認為\n\n03:05.766 --> 03:23.275\n是他們國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項所以有三筆第一個是不少於3億美金很有意思他把金額寫出來而且不少於3億美金這個叫直接軍援直接給你的請問一下你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途\n\n03:24.517 --> 03:32.842\n外交部知不知道?外交部知不知道他不少於3億美金的直接軍援跟台灣磋商的項目有哪些不能講就不能講可以講可以讓大家知道一下\n\n03:53.277 --> 04:14.549\n我想這個部份可能國防部部長掌握得比較精準,好,外交部這方面就不必先講出來。那放在這裡面的意義是什麼?當然是協助我們能夠建立我們那個國防自主安全議題,然後不對稱戰力,培養不對稱戰力。你不講用途,你現在要跟我詮釋不對稱戰力,來,他要送我們什麼東西?\n\n04:22.984 --> 04:47.423\n有啦有些項目啦但是這個讓國防部談比較我的意思說把這不少於3億美金的FMFgrant其實它的意義是臺灣這個區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益在他綜合撥款政府不能停止運作裡面他把這個放在裡面否則他放到10月也沒關係啊為什麼一定要這個時候而且是不是在9月底之前這筆錢就要動用\n\n04:51.464 --> 04:53.244\n國際安和計劃有2600萬美金,這個要做什麼?\n\n05:20.840 --> 05:48.516\n他這個主要是這個的話他是在那個印度PACIFIC的這個印度PACON的那個向下是可以支用的對就是他用在軍事還是用在就是安全合作的他沒有裡面沒有specifically是說怎麼用但是他是列在那凍資的決定權就是他這個是要給台灣嗎用在跟台灣的安全合作對安全合作對所以安全合作項目細項沒有出來\n\n05:49.564 --> 06:06.804\n就是大家討論軍事訓練算不算這個的話可能就還是我們請那個國防部那邊能夠提供第三個你們就要講清楚了400萬美金的GCTF這個是跟我們合作我們在全球在做這個大概用途用在哪裡\n\n06:08.458 --> 06:34.874\n其實美國它是從2022年就開始在它每年度的撥款法案下面都有放這個啊那凍結的是由我們有決定權還是雙方要磋商?其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺美已經拓展到跟日本還有澳大利亞所以呢我們每年會開一個JointCommittee去討論我們今年在所以GCTF這一個平台可以說是每\n\n06:35.856 --> 06:54.065\n日、澳、台的一個合作平台所以這個平台我們期待他有更大發展空間我還是要講一下隱憂因為時間關係我兩個隱憂你看太平洋衝突壓力測試法案是美國三個州亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾州他們有一個基礎他們認為\n\n06:55.646 --> 07:19.213\n他們要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武他必須評估三件事情第一個美國的基礎的水電設施會不會被中國攻擊截斷那這個對台灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施台灣當然要更加要去思考這個問題第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候\n\n07:21.482 --> 07:29.874\n公認鏈中斷的衝擊與影響以及他們要因應的方式所以這一個測試法案所顯示臺灣\n\n07:31.736 --> 08:00.422\n對美國來講很重要以外我為什麼說這是隱憂呢?如果供應鏈中斷對美國衝擊影響很大基於美國的國家利益他只有兩種做法第一種想辦法降低台灣的重要性免得中斷的時候我受不了啊這很正常啊可是我降低不了的時候我一面我當然還要保護台灣避免台灣受損導致美國國家利益受損有兩種思維這兩個可以同時存在啦未必是競合\n\n08:01.823 --> 08:29.920\n所以對外交部來講這個你們有沒有在關注到美國這個氛圍就是說連晶片其實也是在這個邏輯下就是說晶片供應台灣太重要了台灣的重要性就照布林肯講那句話台灣這邊如果發生衝突的話全球經濟可能會毀掉這是布林肯講的話歐盟有類似的評估報告所以當美國州政府都開始提這個太平洋衝突壓力測試法案他指的可能是台灣可能是東海可能是南太\n\n08:31.526 --> 08:32.633\n不是南海那個南海\n\n08:34.158 --> 09:03.838\n在這樣情形下外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說當然一方面台灣要維持我們的重要性有的重要性是改不了的啦我們的戰略位置重要除非我們開走要不然我們停在這裡他就是戰略位置重要民主自由價值重要這個都改不了的但是供應鏈的重要性經濟的這個power這個是很重要所以我請教一下外交部怎麼去看待美國如果我們的重要性被降下來的話其實對我們安全也是有影響的喔外交部怎麼評估這個事情\n\n09:04.718 --> 09:15.828\n當然我們要維持我們對美國的一個重要性這非常重要那麼我們在比如說我們這個高科技是不是做某種程度的diversify\n\n09:16.947 --> 09:41.190\n這個我覺得我們已經在做了我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力國防實力要提升但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴這也是安全之道我反而另外題目是有關這個援助烏克蘭以色列台灣的法案我希望私下了解你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern就是一個分裂的決策一個延宕\n\n09:42.930 --> 09:42.950\n謝謝市長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.777,"end":14.523,"text":"有請次長次長早美國中共大選跟國會的改選對印太跟臺灣來講大體來看你有什麼評價對這邊有什麼衝擊影響"},{"start":21.345,"end":23.626,"text":"我其實不是要你報告你一句話的評價我不曉得我們看法也不一樣"},{"start":47.697,"end":63.049,"text":"未來的前景應該算是光明但是充滿了隱憂這樣評價不知道對不對隱憂大概有兩個一個是你剛才提到中國在印太地區的威脅那美國在這邊當然跟他是呈現一個緊張的狀態其實還有一個隱憂"},{"start":66.252,"end":90.105,"text":"就是我今天排這個題目的主要原因是美國的內部的政治局勢我們也應該要關心關注所以印太地區對別人來講是一個地區對我們來講是我們家我們就住在這裡台灣就是我們的國家我們就住在這裡所以這一些充滿好的部分我們也要看出來隱憂的部分然後來做處理所以第一個要請教的"},{"start":91.686,"end":104.641,"text":"這正面的啦這好像是第一次不是第一次這個是拜登簽署2024年的綜合撥款法案這個撥款法其實不是一個正常的年度預算這是美國"},{"start":105.902,"end":126.354,"text":"怕國會吵太久那個預算沒辦法用怕聯邦政府關門所以把撥了一個一兆兩千萬美金維持政府運作到9月底吧10月1號嘛我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛所以這是一個綜合撥款法是一個維持聯邦政府運作到9月底的一個撥款法"},{"start":127.461,"end":138.351,"text":"所以既然他是一個為了因應聯邦政府不要關門蠻有意思的他把台灣相關的議題放在這個撥款法案裡面你怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":139.775,"end":156.195,"text":"美國認為在緊急狀態政府不能中斷的事項包含對台的事務嗎?你們外交部怎麼看這個事情?如果我們再看大一點的話,它裡面好像也包含了COFA這筆錢,是不是?另外一筆錢。"},{"start":159.264,"end":184.185,"text":"那裏面您如果看過他是說不少於3億美元的對外軍事融資FMF這個我待會問 是的就台灣放在他這一個綜合撥款法案裏面其實是蠻有意義的年度剛放了一個項目那個年度的預算有那個是一個意義我說在撥款法案裏面把它們放進去表示說聯邦政府這段時間不能中斷運作跟台灣相關的議題其實是裏面他們認為"},{"start":185.766,"end":203.275,"text":"是他們國家必須維持運作或者國家利益的事項所以有三筆第一個是不少於3億美金很有意思他把金額寫出來而且不少於3億美金這個叫直接軍援直接給你的請問一下你知不知道這個直接軍援的用途"},{"start":204.517,"end":212.842,"text":"外交部知不知道?外交部知不知道他不少於3億美金的直接軍援跟台灣磋商的項目有哪些不能講就不能講可以講可以讓大家知道一下"},{"start":233.277,"end":254.549,"text":"我想這個部份可能國防部部長掌握得比較精準,好,外交部這方面就不必先講出來。那放在這裡面的意義是什麼?當然是協助我們能夠建立我們那個國防自主安全議題,然後不對稱戰力,培養不對稱戰力。你不講用途,你現在要跟我詮釋不對稱戰力,來,他要送我們什麼東西?"},{"start":262.984,"end":287.423,"text":"有啦有些項目啦但是這個讓國防部談比較我的意思說把這不少於3億美金的FMF grant其實它的意義是臺灣這個區域的安全屬於美國重大的國家利益在他綜合撥款政府不能停止運作裡面他把這個放在裡面否則他放到10月也沒關係啊為什麼一定要這個時候而且是不是在9月底之前這筆錢就要動用"},{"start":291.464,"end":293.244,"text":"國際安和計劃有2600萬美金,這個要做什麼?"},{"start":320.84,"end":348.516,"text":"他這個主要是這個的話他是在那個印度PACIFIC的這個印度PACON的那個向下是可以支用的對就是他用在軍事還是用在就是安全合作的他沒有裡面沒有specifically是說怎麼用但是他是列在那凍資的決定權就是他這個是要給台灣嗎用在跟台灣的安全合作對安全合作對所以安全合作項目細項沒有出來"},{"start":349.564,"end":366.804,"text":"就是大家討論軍事訓練算不算這個的話可能就還是我們請那個國防部那邊能夠提供第三個你們就要講清楚了400萬美金的GCTF這個是跟我們合作我們在全球在做這個大概用途用在哪裡"},{"start":368.458,"end":394.874,"text":"其實美國它是從2022年就開始在它每年度的撥款法案下面都有放這個啊那凍結的是由我們有決定權還是雙方要磋商?其實現在GCTF的夥伴已經從臺美已經拓展到跟日本還有澳大利亞所以呢我們每年會開一個Joint Committee去討論我們今年在所以GCTF這一個平台可以說是每"},{"start":395.856,"end":414.065,"text":"日、澳、台的一個合作平台所以這個平台我們期待他有更大發展空間我還是要講一下隱憂因為時間關係我兩個隱憂你看太平洋衝突壓力測試法案是美國三個州亞利桑那、內布拉斯加跟伊利諾州他們有一個基礎他們認為"},{"start":415.646,"end":439.213,"text":"他們要去評估如果中國在這個區域動武他必須評估三件事情第一個美國的基礎的水電設施會不會被中國攻擊截斷那這個對台灣的意義是連美國都擔心他們會被攻擊基礎水電設施台灣當然要更加要去思考這個問題第二個部分是中國發動攻擊的時候"},{"start":441.482,"end":449.874,"text":"公認鏈中斷的衝擊與影響以及他們要因應的方式所以這一個測試法案所顯示臺灣"},{"start":451.736,"end":480.422,"text":"對美國來講很重要以外我為什麼說這是隱憂呢?如果供應鏈中斷對美國衝擊影響很大基於美國的國家利益他只有兩種做法第一種想辦法降低台灣的重要性免得中斷的時候我受不了啊這很正常啊可是我降低不了的時候我一面我當然還要保護台灣避免台灣受損導致美國國家利益受損有兩種思維這兩個可以同時存在啦未必是競合"},{"start":481.823,"end":509.92,"text":"所以對外交部來講這個你們有沒有在關注到美國這個氛圍就是說連晶片其實也是在這個邏輯下就是說晶片供應台灣太重要了台灣的重要性就照布林肯講那句話台灣這邊如果發生衝突的話全球經濟可能會毀掉這是布林肯講的話歐盟有類似的評估報告所以當美國州政府都開始提這個太平洋衝突壓力測試法案他指的可能是台灣可能是東海可能是南太"},{"start":511.526,"end":512.633,"text":"不是南海 那個南海"},{"start":514.158,"end":543.838,"text":"在這樣情形下外交部怎麼去觀察或遊說當然一方面台灣要維持我們的重要性有的重要性是改不了的啦我們的戰略位置重要除非我們開走要不然我們停在這裡他就是戰略位置重要民主自由價值重要這個都改不了的但是供應鏈的重要性經濟的這個power這個是很重要所以我請教一下外交部怎麼去看待美國如果我們的重要性被降下來的話其實對我們安全也是有影響的喔外交部怎麼評估這個事情"},{"start":544.718,"end":555.828,"text":"當然我們要維持我們對美國的一個重要性 這非常重要那麼我們在比如說我們這個高科技是不是做某種程度的diversify"},{"start":556.947,"end":581.19,"text":"這個我覺得我們已經在做了我們應該要強化我們的經濟科技實力國防實力要提升但經濟科技實力讓我們成為全球不可或缺的夥伴這也是安全之道我反而另外題目是有關這個援助烏克蘭以色列台灣的法案我希望私下了解你們有沒有向美國表達我們的concern就是一個分裂的決策一個延宕"},{"start":582.93,"end":582.95,"text":"謝謝市長。"}]}}}}