{"id":150629,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150629","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdfe47866ec59b1f00beef14c05a86b4f80f8ba9b0039caa7a6941388ba911f71655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"12:14:51 - 12:20:50","影片長度":"00:05:59","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部、教育部、衛生福利部、內政部警政署就「青少年法治教育與犯罪防制成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共6案。\n【其中各案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-10"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":359,"end_time":"2024-03-28T12:20:50+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T12:14:51+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1287,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時14分）謝謝主席，有請教育部及矯正署，謝謝。"],["主席：有請教育部吳司長和矯正署周署長。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們就先開始好了，昨天新聞事件我就不再多說，教育部跟矯正署應該都知道我們的學校出事了，這個學校在一個月內有兩次的相關新聞事件，今天提出這個問題，我首先強調沒有要課責第一線的同仁，因為我們知道在矯正學校裡面，所有的老師跟行政人員工作壓力都非常非常非常的大，但是我們也尊重，假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議，我們都絕對尊重。可是我要提醒，目前矯正署在跟教育部合作，關於矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情，其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差，導致其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來的這麼樂觀。","先來看第一個事情，110年監察院有一個糾正的案文，我們後續去查了，到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案，發生什麼事情呢？對於疑似或是具有身心障礙學生，毫無任何輔導處置方法，甚至僅施以戒具約制，名為保護學生，但是監察院說這是一種拘禁，而且未曾請求專業協助，有所違失。法務部的矯正署也被監察院說沒有詳查事件調查結果，有未盡督導的責任。也就是說，我想問一下兩位，到底敦品學校在這個監察院的報告裡面，一直到了現在，目前的進度是如何？"],["吳司長林輝：首先說明一下，監察院糾正之後，教育部國教署跟法務部矯正署其實都有定期召開指導委員會。"],["陳委員培瑜：定期召開，最近一次是什麼時候？"],["吳司長林輝：1月份。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎？因為我們很想要知道矯正學校，雖然剛剛舉的新聞是敦品，但是我們知道目前有4所矯正學校，其實他們有非常非常多的困境，都需要教育部跟矯正署來積極合作。我要講一個很重要的事情，基本上不是學校改了一個牌子，不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子，掛上學校，它本質上就是學校，其實我們都知道不是，學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業，還有相關輔導人員的專業，當然還有你們矯正署的地位。可是我想要問一下，這一次敦品遇到的問題，其實過去明陽中學跟誠正中學也有遇到過，就是師資困境的部分，還有老師專業度的部分，不知道矯正署目前對於敦品的部分有什麼想法？"],["周署長輝煌：在少年的部分，他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴，很感謝教育部國教署一直有挹注一些資源，包括心理師、社工師。到今年年底他支援4所矯正學校共有12名新設人員，其中心理師9名，社工師3名，這12名新設人員因為預定在今年年底就要退場，我們是希望……"],["陳委員培瑜：12月要退場？"],["周署長輝煌：對，就沒有了，希望能夠繼續再給我們。"],["陳委員培瑜：兩位現在在我面前，很好，謝謝矯正署告訴我。我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心，12月就要退場，是因為預算的關係，還是年度計畫的關係，還是退場之後其實會再有其它的安排，還是目前未定？"],["吳司長林輝：請國教署幫忙說明。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝國教署。"],["葉組長信村：107年開始都有對4個矯正學校……"],["陳委員培瑜：我要問12月底以後。"],["葉組長信村：12月底以後，他們如果有再來申請，我們再視情況繼續協助。"],["陳委員培瑜：我告訴你，他們一定會來申請，因為發生這些事情，而且大家現在要拿這些孩子開刀，所有人都在問孩子後續的事情，因此我要問，孩子被送進學校，我告訴你他們一定會來申請，矯正署，對吧？你們一定會去申請，可是國教署的態度是「視情況」嗎？"],["葉組長信村：從107年他們來申請，我們都沒有拒絕過。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們可不可以更具體的要求？是因為經費的關係，是因為人員不足的關係，還是因為沒有老師、沒有社工師、沒有心理師意願進去？我要講個很嚴重的問題就是，我想要再次說，我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想，其實明陽中學跟誠正中學在改制後，這20多年來的雙軌磨合，已經有蠻多不錯的經驗，甚至我們在跟學校校長、主任、老師溝通的時候，他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的，可是有沒有機會為敦品跟跟勵志兩個學校做專業的研習，分享校園治理經驗，我覺得這部分矯正署也許可以就這4所學校進行溝通。另外教育部學特司跟國教署必須要給予大力的支持，我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼，我們不能都只想著懲罰這些孩子，如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要關懷跟陪伴，為什麼他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴？所有人都知道，大部分的孩子會走上這條路，都是因為原生家庭的匱乏，不管是關懷的匱乏還是資源的匱乏，導致於他們進入學校之後，再度走上這條路，最後走進了這4所矯正學校。我時間有限，後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子，把相關的資源帶進學校，這個部分我們也會持續跟你們討論，可以嗎？謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝司長、署長。","接下來請張委員雅琳質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-10","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","傅崐萁","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","張雅琳","吳沛憶","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:06,541\n但是我們也尊重假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議我們都絕對尊重可是我要提醒目前我們知道矯正署在跟教育部合作關於這個矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差導致於其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來這麼樂觀我們先來看第一個事情\n\n4\n00:01:10,723 --> 00:01:35,237\n在110年監察院有一個糾正的條文那我們後續去查了到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案發生了什麼事情呢對於疑似或者是具有身心障礙學生毫無任何輔導處置方法甚至警示與借據約制名為保護學生但是監察院說這是一種拘禁而且未曾請求專業協助\n\n5\n00:01:37,098 --> 00:01:37,358\n有所為之。\n\n6\n00:01:53,248 --> 00:02:08,190\n目前的進度是?我先說明一下這個監察院糾正之後教育部的國教署跟法務部矯正署這邊其實都有定期召開這個指導委員會定期召開那最近一次是什麼時候?\n\n7\n00:02:11,052 --> 00:02:34,453\n一月份一月份那我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎因為我們很想要知道矯正學校雖然我們剛剛舉的新聞是短評但是我們知道目前有四所矯正學校其實他們有非常非常多的困境都需要教育部跟矯正署這邊來積極的合作我們來看一下我要講一個很重要的事情基本上不是學校改了一個牌子不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子掛上學校他本質上\n\n8\n00:02:36,215 --> 00:02:57,908\n就是學校其實我們都知道不是學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業還有相關輔導人員的專業當然還有你們矯正署的地位可是我想要問一下過去其實這一次端平所遇到的問題其實過去名陽中學跟城鎮中學也有遇到過就是師資困境的部分還有老師專業度的部分不知道目前矯正署你們這邊目前有什麼想法對於端平的部分\n\n9\n00:02:59,191 --> 00:03:16,300\n跟委員報告在少年的部分他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴那也是很感謝教育部的國教署一直有挹注一些資源包括心理師、社工師到今年年底\n\n10\n00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:35,979\n他支援4所矯正學校有12名新設人員心理師9名3名是社工師我希望說這12名新設人員不要因為他預定是在今年年底就要退場我們是希望12年要退場喔\n\n11\n00:03:36,779 --> 00:03:54,120\n就沒有希望說能夠再繼續兩位現在在我面前很好我謝謝那個交代署告訴我我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心12月就要退場所以預算的關係還是年度計劃的關係還是退場之後其實會再有其他的安排還是目前未定\n\n12\n00:03:55,522 --> 00:04:09,494\n可以請國教署幫忙好謝謝國教署報告那到107年開始我們都有對四個小學生學校沒有我要問12月底以後12月底以後他們如果有再來申請我們再試情況會來做繼續協助因為\n\n13\n00:04:11,135 --> 00:04:25,538\n他們一定會來申請我告訴你因為發生這些事情而且大家現在要拿著這些孩子開刀所有人都在問孩子後續出了事情但是我們要問孩子被送進學校我告訴你他們一定會來申請對吧腳站署你們一定會去申請可是國教署的態度是視情況嗎\n\n14\n00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:43,147\n我們可不可以更具體的要求是因為經費的關係現在人員不足的關係還是因為沒有老師沒有社工師沒有心理師有意願進去因為我要講的很大的嚴重的問題就是\n\n15\n00:04:44,673 --> 00:05:00,800\n我想要再次說我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想其實名陽中學跟城鎮中學他們在改制後這20多年來的雙軌磨合其實已經有還蠻多不錯的經驗甚且我們在跟這些學校校長跟主任老師溝通的時候他們都知道後續\n\n16\n00:05:02,361 --> 00:05:26,845\n他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的可是有沒有機會為端平跟立志兩個學校做專業的研習分享校園治理經驗我覺得這個部分矯正署也許可以就這四所學校進行溝通另外就是其實教育部跟國教署而國教署跟徐特斯這邊必須要給予大力的支持我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼可是如果我們都只想著懲罰這些孩子如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要的關懷跟陪伴\n\n17\n00:05:27,505 --> 00:05:51,236\n為什麽他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴所有人都知道大部分的孩子會走上這條路都是因為原生家庭的匱乏不管是關懷的匱乏資源的匱乏導致他們進入學校之後再度走上這條路然後最後走進這四所矯正學校所以我時間有限我想要後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子把相關資源帶進學校這個部分我們也會跟你們持續討論可以嗎\n\n18\n00:05:52,697 --> 00:05:55,502\n好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長署長好接下來有請張委員亞林直\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6843\t14997\t好謝謝主席那這邊要有請教育部還有矯正署謝謝有請教育部吳司長和矯正署的周署長\n20950\t46952\t好我們就先開始好了昨天新聞事件我相信我就不再多說教育部跟矯正署應該都知道我們的學校出事了但是我要說因為這個學校在一個月內有兩次相關新聞事件我們今天來提出這個問題我要首先強調我們沒有要苛責第一線的同仁因為我們知道在矯正學校裡面所有的老師跟行政人員工作壓力都非常非常的大\n47993\t66541\t但是我們也尊重假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議我們都絕對尊重可是我要提醒目前我們知道矯正署在跟教育部合作關於這個矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差導致於其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來這麼樂觀我們先來看第一個事情\n70723\t95237\t在110年監察院有一個糾正的條文那我們後續去查了到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案發生了什麼事情呢對於疑似或者是具有身心障礙學生毫無任何輔導處置方法甚至警示與借據約制名為保護學生但是監察院說這是一種拘禁而且未曾請求專業協助\n97098\t97358\t有所為之。\n113248\t128190\t目前的進度是?我先說明一下這個監察院糾正之後教育部的國教署跟法務部矯正署這邊其實都有定期召開這個指導委員會定期召開那最近一次是什麼時候?\n131052\t154453\t一月份一月份那我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎因為我們很想要知道矯正學校雖然我們剛剛舉的新聞是短評但是我們知道目前有四所矯正學校其實他們有非常非常多的困境都需要教育部跟矯正署這邊來積極的合作我們來看一下我要講一個很重要的事情基本上不是學校改了一個牌子不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子掛上學校他本質上\n156215\t177908\t就是學校其實我們都知道不是學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業還有相關輔導人員的專業當然還有你們矯正署的地位可是我想要問一下過去其實這一次端平所遇到的問題其實過去名陽中學跟城鎮中學也有遇到過就是師資困境的部分還有老師專業度的部分不知道目前矯正署你們這邊目前有什麼想法對於端平的部分\n179191\t196300\t跟委員報告在少年的部分他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴那也是很感謝教育部的國教署一直有挹注一些資源包括心理師、社工師到今年年底\n197120\t215979\t他支援4所矯正學校有12名新設人員心理師9名3名是社工師我希望說這12名新設人員不要因為他預定是在今年年底就要退場我們是希望12年要退場喔\n216779\t234120\t就沒有希望說能夠再繼續兩位現在在我面前很好我謝謝那個交代署告訴我我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心12月就要退場所以預算的關係還是年度計劃的關係還是退場之後其實會再有其他的安排還是目前未定\n235522\t249494\t可以請國教署幫忙好謝謝國教署報告那到107年開始我們都有對四個小學生學校沒有我要問12月底以後12月底以後他們如果有再來申請我們再試情況會來做繼續協助因為\n251135\t265538\t他們一定會來申請我告訴你因為發生這些事情而且大家現在要拿著這些孩子開刀所有人都在問孩子後續出了事情但是我們要問孩子被送進學校我告訴你他們一定會來申請對吧腳站署你們一定會去申請可是國教署的態度是視情況嗎\n269990\t283147\t我們可不可以更具體的要求是因為經費的關係現在人員不足的關係還是因為沒有老師沒有社工師沒有心理師有意願進去因為我要講的很大的嚴重的問題就是\n284673\t300800\t我想要再次說我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想其實名陽中學跟城鎮中學他們在改制後這20多年來的雙軌磨合其實已經有還蠻多不錯的經驗甚且我們在跟這些學校校長跟主任老師溝通的時候他們都知道後續\n302361\t326845\t他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的可是有沒有機會為端平跟立志兩個學校做專業的研習分享校園治理經驗我覺得這個部分矯正署也許可以就這四所學校進行溝通另外就是其實教育部跟國教署而國教署跟徐特斯這邊必須要給予大力的支持我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼可是如果我們都只想著懲罰這些孩子如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要的關懷跟陪伴\n327505\t351236\t為什麽他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴所有人都知道大部分的孩子會走上這條路都是因為原生家庭的匱乏不管是關懷的匱乏資源的匱乏導致他們進入學校之後再度走上這條路然後最後走進這四所矯正學校所以我時間有限我想要後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子把相關資源帶進學校這個部分我們也會跟你們持續討論可以嗎\n352697\t355502\t好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長署長好接下來有請張委員亞林直\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那這邊要有請教育部還有矯正署謝謝有請教育部吳司長和矯正署的周署長\n好我們就先開始好了昨天新聞事件我相信我就不再多說教育部跟矯正署應該都知道我們的學校出事了但是我要說因為這個學校在一個月內有兩次相關新聞事件我們今天來提出這個問題我要首先強調我們沒有要苛責第一線的同仁因為我們知道在矯正學校裡面所有的老師跟行政人員工作壓力都非常非常的大\n但是我們也尊重假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議我們都絕對尊重可是我要提醒目前我們知道矯正署在跟教育部合作關於這個矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差導致於其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來這麼樂觀我們先來看第一個事情\n在110年監察院有一個糾正的條文那我們後續去查了到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案發生了什麼事情呢對於疑似或者是具有身心障礙學生毫無任何輔導處置方法甚至警示與借據約制名為保護學生但是監察院說這是一種拘禁而且未曾請求專業協助\n有所為之。\n目前的進度是?我先說明一下這個監察院糾正之後教育部的國教署跟法務部矯正署這邊其實都有定期召開這個指導委員會定期召開那最近一次是什麼時候?\n一月份一月份那我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎因為我們很想要知道矯正學校雖然我們剛剛舉的新聞是短評但是我們知道目前有四所矯正學校其實他們有非常非常多的困境都需要教育部跟矯正署這邊來積極的合作我們來看一下我要講一個很重要的事情基本上不是學校改了一個牌子不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子掛上學校他本質上\n就是學校其實我們都知道不是學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業還有相關輔導人員的專業當然還有你們矯正署的地位可是我想要問一下過去其實這一次端平所遇到的問題其實過去名陽中學跟城鎮中學也有遇到過就是師資困境的部分還有老師專業度的部分不知道目前矯正署你們這邊目前有什麼想法對於端平的部分\n跟委員報告在少年的部分他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴那也是很感謝教育部的國教署一直有挹注一些資源包括心理師、社工師到今年年底\n他支援4所矯正學校有12名新設人員心理師9名3名是社工師我希望說這12名新設人員不要因為他預定是在今年年底就要退場我們是希望12年要退場喔\n就沒有希望說能夠再繼續兩位現在在我面前很好我謝謝那個交代署告訴我我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心12月就要退場所以預算的關係還是年度計劃的關係還是退場之後其實會再有其他的安排還是目前未定\n可以請國教署幫忙好謝謝國教署報告那到107年開始我們都有對四個小學生學校沒有我要問12月底以後12月底以後他們如果有再來申請我們再試情況會來做繼續協助因為\n他們一定會來申請我告訴你因為發生這些事情而且大家現在要拿著這些孩子開刀所有人都在問孩子後續出了事情但是我們要問孩子被送進學校我告訴你他們一定會來申請對吧腳站署你們一定會去申請可是國教署的態度是視情況嗎\n我們可不可以更具體的要求是因為經費的關係現在人員不足的關係還是因為沒有老師沒有社工師沒有心理師有意願進去因為我要講的很大的嚴重的問題就是\n我想要再次說我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想其實名陽中學跟城鎮中學他們在改制後這20多年來的雙軌磨合其實已經有還蠻多不錯的經驗甚且我們在跟這些學校校長跟主任老師溝通的時候他們都知道後續\n他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的可是有沒有機會為端平跟立志兩個學校做專業的研習分享校園治理經驗我覺得這個部分矯正署也許可以就這四所學校進行溝通另外就是其實教育部跟國教署而國教署跟徐特斯這邊必須要給予大力的支持我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼可是如果我們都只想著懲罰這些孩子如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要的關懷跟陪伴\n為什麽他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴所有人都知道大部分的孩子會走上這條路都是因為原生家庭的匱乏不管是關懷的匱乏資源的匱乏導致他們進入學校之後再度走上這條路然後最後走進這四所矯正學校所以我時間有限我想要後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子把相關資源帶進學校這個部分我們也會跟你們持續討論可以嗎\n好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長署長好接下來有請張委員亞林直\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.843 --> 00:14.997\n好謝謝主席那這邊要有請教育部還有矯正署謝謝有請教育部吳司長和矯正署的周署長\n\n00:20.950 --> 00:46.952\n好我們就先開始好了昨天新聞事件我相信我就不再多說教育部跟矯正署應該都知道我們的學校出事了但是我要說因為這個學校在一個月內有兩次相關新聞事件我們今天來提出這個問題我要首先強調我們沒有要苛責第一線的同仁因為我們知道在矯正學校裡面所有的老師跟行政人員工作壓力都非常非常的大\n\n00:47.993 --> 01:06.541\n但是我們也尊重假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議我們都絕對尊重可是我要提醒目前我們知道矯正署在跟教育部合作關於這個矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差導致於其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來這麼樂觀我們先來看第一個事情\n\n01:10.723 --> 01:35.237\n在110年監察院有一個糾正的條文那我們後續去查了到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案發生了什麼事情呢對於疑似或者是具有身心障礙學生毫無任何輔導處置方法甚至警示與借據約制名為保護學生但是監察院說這是一種拘禁而且未曾請求專業協助\n\n01:37.098 --> 01:37.358\n有所為之。\n\n01:53.248 --> 02:08.190\n目前的進度是?我先說明一下這個監察院糾正之後教育部的國教署跟法務部矯正署這邊其實都有定期召開這個指導委員會定期召開那最近一次是什麼時候?\n\n02:11.052 --> 02:34.453\n一月份一月份那我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎因為我們很想要知道矯正學校雖然我們剛剛舉的新聞是短評但是我們知道目前有四所矯正學校其實他們有非常非常多的困境都需要教育部跟矯正署這邊來積極的合作我們來看一下我要講一個很重要的事情基本上不是學校改了一個牌子不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子掛上學校他本質上\n\n02:36.215 --> 02:57.908\n就是學校其實我們都知道不是學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業還有相關輔導人員的專業當然還有你們矯正署的地位可是我想要問一下過去其實這一次端平所遇到的問題其實過去名陽中學跟城鎮中學也有遇到過就是師資困境的部分還有老師專業度的部分不知道目前矯正署你們這邊目前有什麼想法對於端平的部分\n\n02:59.191 --> 03:16.300\n跟委員報告在少年的部分他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴那也是很感謝教育部的國教署一直有挹注一些資源包括心理師、社工師到今年年底\n\n03:17.120 --> 03:35.979\n他支援4所矯正學校有12名新設人員心理師9名3名是社工師我希望說這12名新設人員不要因為他預定是在今年年底就要退場我們是希望12年要退場喔\n\n03:36.779 --> 03:54.120\n就沒有希望說能夠再繼續兩位現在在我面前很好我謝謝那個交代署告訴我我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心12月就要退場所以預算的關係還是年度計劃的關係還是退場之後其實會再有其他的安排還是目前未定\n\n03:55.522 --> 04:09.494\n可以請國教署幫忙好謝謝國教署報告那到107年開始我們都有對四個小學生學校沒有我要問12月底以後12月底以後他們如果有再來申請我們再試情況會來做繼續協助因為\n\n04:11.135 --> 04:25.538\n他們一定會來申請我告訴你因為發生這些事情而且大家現在要拿著這些孩子開刀所有人都在問孩子後續出了事情但是我們要問孩子被送進學校我告訴你他們一定會來申請對吧腳站署你們一定會去申請可是國教署的態度是視情況嗎\n\n04:29.990 --> 04:43.147\n我們可不可以更具體的要求是因為經費的關係現在人員不足的關係還是因為沒有老師沒有社工師沒有心理師有意願進去因為我要講的很大的嚴重的問題就是\n\n04:44.673 --> 05:00.800\n我想要再次說我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想其實名陽中學跟城鎮中學他們在改制後這20多年來的雙軌磨合其實已經有還蠻多不錯的經驗甚且我們在跟這些學校校長跟主任老師溝通的時候他們都知道後續\n\n05:02.361 --> 05:26.845\n他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的可是有沒有機會為端平跟立志兩個學校做專業的研習分享校園治理經驗我覺得這個部分矯正署也許可以就這四所學校進行溝通另外就是其實教育部跟國教署而國教署跟徐特斯這邊必須要給予大力的支持我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼可是如果我們都只想著懲罰這些孩子如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要的關懷跟陪伴\n\n05:27.505 --> 05:51.236\n為什麽他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴所有人都知道大部分的孩子會走上這條路都是因為原生家庭的匱乏不管是關懷的匱乏資源的匱乏導致他們進入學校之後再度走上這條路然後最後走進這四所矯正學校所以我時間有限我想要後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子把相關資源帶進學校這個部分我們也會跟你們持續討論可以嗎\n\n05:52.697 --> 05:55.502\n好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長署長好接下來有請張委員亞林直\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.843,"end":14.997,"text":"好謝謝主席那這邊要有請教育部還有矯正署謝謝有請教育部吳司長和矯正署的周署長"},{"start":20.95,"end":46.952,"text":"好我們就先開始好了昨天新聞事件我相信我就不再多說教育部跟矯正署應該都知道我們的學校出事了但是我要說因為這個學校在一個月內有兩次相關新聞事件我們今天來提出這個問題我要首先強調我們沒有要苛責第一線的同仁因為我們知道在矯正學校裡面所有的老師跟行政人員工作壓力都非常非常的大"},{"start":47.993,"end":66.541,"text":"但是我們也尊重假設事後有任何的檢討機制跟討論的會議我們都絕對尊重可是我要提醒目前我們知道矯正署在跟教育部合作關於這個矯正學校裡面各式各樣的事情其實兩個部會看起來應該有一些落差導致於其實矯正學校現場不是我們看起來這麼樂觀我們先來看第一個事情"},{"start":70.723,"end":95.237,"text":"在110年監察院有一個糾正的條文那我們後續去查了到目前為止這個案子都是屬於未結案發生了什麼事情呢對於疑似或者是具有身心障礙學生毫無任何輔導處置方法甚至警示與借據約制名為保護學生但是監察院說這是一種拘禁而且未曾請求專業協助"},{"start":97.098,"end":97.358,"text":"有所為之。"},{"start":113.248,"end":128.19,"text":"目前的進度是?我先說明一下這個監察院糾正之後教育部的國教署跟法務部矯正署這邊其實都有定期召開這個指導委員會定期召開那最近一次是什麼時候?"},{"start":131.052,"end":154.453,"text":"一月份一月份那我們可以跟你們要相關的開會報告嗎因為我們很想要知道矯正學校雖然我們剛剛舉的新聞是短評但是我們知道目前有四所矯正學校其實他們有非常非常多的困境都需要教育部跟矯正署這邊來積極的合作我們來看一下我要講一個很重要的事情基本上不是學校改了一個牌子不是從我以前服務過的少年監獄改了一個牌子掛上學校他本質上"},{"start":156.215,"end":177.908,"text":"就是學校其實我們都知道不是學校裡面最重要的是老師的專業還有相關輔導人員的專業當然還有你們矯正署的地位可是我想要問一下過去其實這一次端平所遇到的問題其實過去名陽中學跟城鎮中學也有遇到過就是師資困境的部分還有老師專業度的部分不知道目前矯正署你們這邊目前有什麼想法對於端平的部分"},{"start":179.191,"end":196.3,"text":"跟委員報告在少年的部分他最需要的是關懷跟陪伴那也是很感謝教育部的國教署一直有挹注一些資源包括心理師、社工師到今年年底"},{"start":197.12,"end":215.979,"text":"他支援4所矯正學校有12名新設人員心理師9名3名是社工師我希望說這12名新設人員不要因為他預定是在今年年底就要退場我們是希望12年要退場喔"},{"start":216.779,"end":234.12,"text":"就沒有希望說能夠再繼續兩位現在在我面前很好我謝謝那個交代署告訴我我相信在場所有人聽到應該都會覺得更加擔心12月就要退場所以預算的關係還是年度計劃的關係還是退場之後其實會再有其他的安排還是目前未定"},{"start":235.522,"end":249.494,"text":"可以請國教署幫忙好謝謝國教署報告那到107年開始我們都有對四個小學生學校沒有我要問12月底以後12月底以後他們如果有再來申請我們再試情況會來做繼續協助因為"},{"start":251.135,"end":265.538,"text":"他們一定會來申請我告訴你因為發生這些事情而且大家現在要拿著這些孩子開刀所有人都在問孩子後續出了事情但是我們要問孩子被送進學校我告訴你他們一定會來申請對吧腳站署你們一定會去申請可是國教署的態度是視情況嗎"},{"start":269.99,"end":283.147,"text":"我們可不可以更具體的要求是因為經費的關係現在人員不足的關係還是因為沒有老師沒有社工師沒有心理師有意願進去因為我要講的很大的嚴重的問題就是"},{"start":284.673,"end":300.8,"text":"我想要再次說我覺得我們真的必須要回頭去想一想其實名陽中學跟城鎮中學他們在改制後這20多年來的雙軌磨合其實已經有還蠻多不錯的經驗甚且我們在跟這些學校校長跟主任老師溝通的時候他們都知道後續"},{"start":302.361,"end":326.845,"text":"他們其實是很願意做經驗分享的可是有沒有機會為端平跟立志兩個學校做專業的研習分享校園治理經驗我覺得這個部分矯正署也許可以就這四所學校進行溝通另外就是其實教育部跟國教署而國教署跟徐特斯這邊必須要給予大力的支持我真的不知道現在的困境是什麼可是如果我們都只想著懲罰這些孩子如同剛剛您說的這些孩子需要的關懷跟陪伴"},{"start":327.505,"end":351.236,"text":"為什麽他們特別需要關懷跟陪伴所有人都知道大部分的孩子會走上這條路都是因為原生家庭的匱乏不管是關懷的匱乏資源的匱乏導致他們進入學校之後再度走上這條路然後最後走進這四所矯正學校所以我時間有限我想要後續拜託國教署還有矯正署持續協助這些孩子把相關資源帶進學校這個部分我們也會跟你們持續討論可以嗎"},{"start":352.697,"end":355.502,"text":"好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長署長好接下來有請張委員亞林直"}]}}}}