{"id":150642,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150642","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf4411a020bb0302f53836925fc87402eef8ba9b0039caa7a65db4e55f30aa681e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"10:14:28 - 10:23:47","影片長度":"00:09:19","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":5,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-5"},"date":"2024-03-28","duration":559,"end_time":"2024-03-28T10:23:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-28T10:14:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":333,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（10時14分）謝謝主席。我請核安會。"],["主席：有請主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：吳委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：主委好。剛剛我聽了前面很多委員質詢的關心，首先我想要請問，我們臺灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒有。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們目前沒有嘛！所以剛剛前面很多委員都向您詢問核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡，為什麼呢？尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委，因為核廢料最終處置場的選址必然會涉及到民意，這是科學、理性，還要加務實。當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題，它不是一個假設性的、未來式的理論，而是臺灣目前已經有核電廠，它有所在的位置、它的除役以及它的核廢料處置，都牽涉到實務上它的所在地以及相關的處置，所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題。","首先，我想要請問主委，我們臺灣目前核電廠有幾座？"],["陳主任委員東陽：三座。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們目前有三座，已經進入除役中，以及即將要進行除役的狀況，能不能夠請主委分別來說明？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核一、核二廠已經進入除役，核三還在運轉，但是1號機今年7月屆期，2號機明年5月已經滿40年。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。核三廠要除役是因為它的運轉執照即將要到期，按照我們現行的法規，有沒有辦法申請延役？"],["陳主任委員東陽：按照目前的法規沒有辦法。"],["吳委員沛憶：目前的法規沒有辦法，是因為我們目前的法規有要求，要申請延役必須要在5年之前就要提出。所以，現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法提案，就是希望未來要取消提出延役申請的期限，我在這邊表達我的立場，我反對取消延役申請的期限。因為我們要討論延役，其實要去討論我剛剛講的科學、理性，還要加務實，要討論務實的問題，所謂務實的問題是什麼呢？就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置？核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式，臺灣還沒有最終處置場，請問我們的核廢料，也就是我們使用過的燃料棒，目前核一、核二廠，以及核三廠的現況是如何處置的？"],["陳主任委員東陽：核一、核二廠目前都是在濕式貯存，就是在水池裡面，所以沒辦法移出來，爐心裡面也有燃料棒，所以它其實是一個pending的狀態。"],["吳委員沛憶：濕式貯存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["吳委員沛憶：以現在的現況，核一跟核二廠的濕式貯存，也就是燃料池的容量，都已經不足以承載我們使用過的燃料棒，我們目前有一些使用過的移到燃料池內，有一些就還放在爐心內，如果加總我們已使用過的燃料棒，我幫你們算過這個數字，事實上，核一、核二廠都是已經超載的。核三廠呢？按照現在的使用年限，目前我們核三廠是18個月，18個月的週期到了就必須要放入燃料池，其實也是即將要滿載。所以濕式貯存是燃料棒處理的其中一個方式，其他的方式是不是還有乾式貯存？"],["陳主任委員東陽：對，乾式貯存是相對比較安全的，所以我們在濕式貯存到一定程度……"],["吳委員沛憶：乾式貯存的位置是不是也在核電廠的廠區內？"],["陳主任委員東陽：在核電廠的廠區裡面，現在有分室外跟室內，室內其實是大家認為比較好的。"],["吳委員沛憶：核一跟核二廠的位置都在我們新北市，目前我們的乾式貯存場蓋了沒有？都蓋了嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：只有核一蓋，室外只有核一蓋。"],["吳委員沛憶：乾式貯存場是啟用，有沒有辦法啟用？"],["陳主任委員東陽：沒辦法啟用。"],["吳委員沛憶：目前是有乾式貯存場，但是沒有辦法啟用，就因為還必須要跟地方政府商量，因為它也牽涉到民意。所以說我們的核廢料處置，按照目前的情況，核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載，我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式貯存場，我們的最終處置場甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道，在現在務實的情況下，我是堅決反對核三廠的延役，因為我們目前沒有處理燃料棒的方式。所以我希望除了這個修法的提案在立法院裡面，這個我們大會可以來討論，但是根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒，也就是我們的核廢料。法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題，這個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期，但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置是兩個題目，所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題討論清楚。","所謂的「最終處置場」，因為坊間也有一種說法，就是支持核電廠延役，不然核廢料可以放在我家，我想要請問主委，核廢料的最終處置場，現在全世界已經有啟用的，就只有芬蘭的那座最終處置場是吧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：它現在在試營運階段，2024開始……"],["吳委員沛憶：在試營運階段。核廢料的最終處置場，它的條件應該要符合什麼樣的標準，有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家？民眾舉手說，我們家願意來貯存核廢料，有沒有辦法這樣子進行？"],["陳主任委員東陽：最終處置場有相當多的面向，第一個是科學的面向，是geology也就是地質的部分，要選擇適當的場址，這個是……"],["吳委員沛憶：什麼樣的場址是適當的場址？"],["陳主任委員東陽：就是有堅實的岩盤，第二個部分是工程的面向，是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室，怎麼樣把所有的輻射阻擋，這個要在地下多深呢？要在地下300米到600米，所以是相當艱鉅的工程。"],["吳委員沛憶：是。"],["陳主任委員東陽：第三個其實是社會溝通的問題，所以它有三個面向，有科學、有工程還有社會的問題。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過，這個最終處置場（目前芬蘭這一座）是在地下四百多公尺深，然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴，使用過的燃料棒用類似罐頭的方式把它封存，然後再把它放到地底下。以這樣子的條件來說，我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件的，這個我想核安會或政府部門也應該要去說明清楚，否則坊間有一種說法就是，我想要核電廠延役，燃料棒、核廢料你們不願意放，不然來放我家，這個是完全不科學也不務實的，我們必須要把它澄清清楚。","最後，因為昨天歐盟議會的議員來我們立法院拜訪，由我們韓國瑜院長接見，因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席，這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達，當烏俄戰爭發生的時候，其實他們非常地擔心這個在烏克蘭的核電站會不會遭受攻擊，對安全會有不堪設想的後果。我知道我們核安會的網站，過去有一段時間你們是很密集地在網站上同步地去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的情況，但是這一段時間以來，我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息，我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊，所以我希望核安會可以持續地來監督，並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道，可不可以做到？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，沒有問題。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳沛憶委員，主委請回。","接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"150642","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150642","tool":"pyannote","id":"150642-pyannote"},"job_id":"ikC4HmYX8Jrf5SSP","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 512.131, \"end\": 512.331, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.331, \"end\": 512.712, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 512.712, \"end\": 513.292, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 513.292, \"end\": 513.532, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 513.532, \"end\": 513.893, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 513.893, \"end\": 514.073, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 514.073, \"end\": 514.313, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.313, \"end\": 514.834, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 514.834, \"end\": 515.415, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 515.415, \"end\": 515.575, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 515.575, \"end\": 516.175, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 516.175, \"end\": 516.356, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 556.264, \"end\": 556.384, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 556.384, \"end\": 556.404, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,170\n謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場\n\n2\n00:00:30,866 --> 00:00:53,316\n所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意\n\n3\n00:00:55,271 --> 00:01:15,028\n這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了\n\n4\n00:01:16,370 --> 00:01:29,911\n實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座\n\n5\n00:01:31,472 --> 00:01:48,625\n3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期\n\n6\n00:01:50,187 --> 00:02:04,341\n2號機明年5月已經滿40年是核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法\n\n7\n00:02:05,342 --> 00:02:24,750\n目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請研議必須要在五年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出研議申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消研議申請的期限\n\n8\n00:02:28,712 --> 00:02:32,014\n因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼呢就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二廠以及核三廠的現況目前是如何處置的\n\n9\n00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:27,184\n那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量\n\n10\n00:03:28,601 --> 00:03:28,621\n吳沛憶\n\n11\n00:03:48,439 --> 00:04:05,152\n按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存\n\n12\n00:04:06,463 --> 00:04:30,729\n對,乾式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度乾式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外、室內其實是比較大家認為是比較合一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的乾式儲存廠蓋了沒有\n\n13\n00:04:34,065 --> 00:04:52,076\n市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠是啟用有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意\n\n14\n00:04:53,436 --> 00:04:59,857\n所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對\n\n15\n00:05:18,061 --> 00:05:18,442\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n16\n00:05:33,254 --> 00:05:40,619\n根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目\n\n17\n00:05:57,071 --> 00:06:23,946\n所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置廠因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啦核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那一座最終處置廠是吧\n\n18\n00:06:25,592 --> 00:06:29,293\n他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終儲置場他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家民眾舉手說我們家願意來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行\n\n19\n00:06:46,457 --> 00:07:11,245\n最終處置廠有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的廠址這個是就是什麼樣的廠址是適當的廠址就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋\n\n20\n00:07:13,749 --> 00:07:15,950\n所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過\n\n21\n00:07:32,775 --> 00:07:48,200\n這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過的燃料用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件\n\n22\n00:07:54,062 --> 00:07:54,182\n昨天歐盟議會\n\n23\n00:08:14,108 --> 00:08:28,246\n議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個\n\n24\n00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:44,525\n當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果\n\n25\n00:08:45,506 --> 00:09:14,366\n我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到\n\n26\n00:09:15,140 --> 00:09:16,404\n是的沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1170\t謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場\n30866\t53316\t所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢 尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢 核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意\n55271\t75028\t這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了\n76370\t89911\t實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座\n91472\t108625\t3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期\n110187\t124341\t2號機明年5月已經滿40年是 核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法\n125342\t144750\t目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請研議必須要在五年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出研議申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消研議申請的期限\n148712\t152014\t因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼呢就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二廠以及核三廠的現況目前是如何處置的\n179512\t207184\t那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量\n208601\t208621\t吳沛憶\n228439\t245152\t按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存\n246463\t270729\t對,乾式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度乾式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外、室內其實是比較大家認為是比較合一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的乾式儲存廠蓋了沒有\n274065\t292076\t市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠是啟用 有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意\n293436\t299857\t所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對\n318061\t318442\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n333254\t340619\t根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目\n357071\t383946\t所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置廠因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啦核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那一座最終處置廠是吧\n385592\t389293\t他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終儲置場他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家民眾舉手說我們家願意來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行\n406457\t431245\t最終處置廠有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的廠址這個是就是什麼樣的廠址是適當的廠址就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋\n433749\t435950\t所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過\n452775\t468200\t這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過的燃料用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件\n474062\t474182\t昨天歐盟議會\n494108\t508246\t議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個\n511070\t524525\t當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果\n525506\t554366\t我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到\n555140\t556404\t是的沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場\n所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢 尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢 核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意\n這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了\n實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座\n3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期\n2號機明年5月已經滿40年是 核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法\n目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請研議必須要在五年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出研議申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消研議申請的期限\n因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼呢就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二廠以及核三廠的現況目前是如何處置的\n那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量\n吳沛憶\n按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存\n對,乾式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度乾式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外、室內其實是比較大家認為是比較合一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的乾式儲存廠蓋了沒有\n市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠是啟用 有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意\n所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目\n所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置廠因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啦核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那一座最終處置廠是吧\n他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終儲置場他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家民眾舉手說我們家願意來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行\n最終處置廠有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的廠址這個是就是什麼樣的廠址是適當的廠址就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋\n所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過\n這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過的燃料用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件\n昨天歐盟議會\n議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個\n當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果\n我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到\n是的沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.170\n謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場\n\n00:30.866 --> 00:53.316\n所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意\n\n00:55.271 --> 01:15.028\n這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了\n\n01:16.370 --> 01:29.911\n實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座\n\n01:31.472 --> 01:48.625\n3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期\n\n01:50.187 --> 02:04.341\n2號機明年5月已經滿40年是核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法\n\n02:05.342 --> 02:24.750\n目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請研議必須要在五年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出研議申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消研議申請的期限\n\n02:28.712 --> 02:32.014\n因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼呢就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二廠以及核三廠的現況目前是如何處置的\n\n02:59.512 --> 03:27.184\n那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量\n\n03:28.601 --> 03:28.621\n吳沛憶\n\n03:48.439 --> 04:05.152\n按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存\n\n04:06.463 --> 04:30.729\n對,乾式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度乾式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外、室內其實是比較大家認為是比較合一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的乾式儲存廠蓋了沒有\n\n04:34.065 --> 04:52.076\n市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠是啟用有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意\n\n04:53.436 --> 04:59.857\n所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對\n\n05:18.061 --> 05:18.442\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n05:33.254 --> 05:40.619\n根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目\n\n05:57.071 --> 06:23.946\n所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置廠因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啦核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那一座最終處置廠是吧\n\n06:25.592 --> 06:29.293\n他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終儲置場他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家民眾舉手說我們家願意來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行\n\n06:46.457 --> 07:11.245\n最終處置廠有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的廠址這個是就是什麼樣的廠址是適當的廠址就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋\n\n07:13.749 --> 07:15.950\n所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過\n\n07:32.775 --> 07:48.200\n這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過的燃料用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件\n\n07:54.062 --> 07:54.182\n昨天歐盟議會\n\n08:14.108 --> 08:28.246\n議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個\n\n08:31.070 --> 08:44.525\n當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果\n\n08:45.506 --> 09:14.366\n我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到\n\n09:15.140 --> 09:16.404\n是的沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.17,"text":"謝謝主席我請何安慧好有請主委吳委員好主委好剛剛我聽了很多前面委員質詢的關心首先我想要請問我們台灣現在有沒有核廢料的最終處置場"},{"start":30.866,"end":53.316,"text":"所以說剛剛很多前面的委員都在向您詢問說核廢料的最終處置場選址要在哪裡為什麼呢 尤其是本會有兩位來自新北市的區域立委因為呢 核廢料的最終處置場的選址其實必然會涉及到民意"},{"start":55.271,"end":75.028,"text":"這科學理性還要加務實當我們今天在討論核電廠的問題它不是一個假設性的未來式的理論而是台灣目前已經有核電廠它有所在的位置它的廚藝以及它的核廢料的處置都牽涉到了"},{"start":76.37,"end":89.911,"text":"實務上他的所在地以及相關的處置所以我們並不是真空的在討論一個未來式的問題首先我想要請問這個主委我們台灣我們目前的核電廠有幾座"},{"start":91.472,"end":108.625,"text":"3座我目前3座已經進入廚藝中以及即將要進行廚藝的這個狀況能夠請主委分別來說明核一核二廠已經進入廚藝了是那核三還在運轉但是一號機今年7月借期"},{"start":110.187,"end":124.341,"text":"2號機明年5月已經滿40年是 核三搶要除役是因為它的運轉值帳即將要到期按照我們現行的法規有沒有辦法來申請研議按照目前的法規沒有辦法"},{"start":125.342,"end":144.75,"text":"目前的法規沒有辦法是因為我目前法規有要求要申請研議必須要在五年之前就要來提出所以說現在我看到國民黨的立法院黨團有提出一個修法的提案就是希望未來要來取消提出研議申請的期限我在這邊表達我的立場我反對來取消研議申請的期限"},{"start":148.712,"end":152.014,"text":"因為我們要討論研議其實要去討論我剛講的科學理性要加務實要討論務實的問題所謂務實問題是什麼呢就是我們現在核廢料究竟要如何處置核廢料的處置事實上也是一個現在進行式台灣還沒有最終處置場目前請問我們核廢料也就是我們使用過的燃料棒目前核一核二廠以及核三廠的現況目前是如何處置的"},{"start":179.512,"end":207.184,"text":"那個核一核二廠目前都是在這個私式儲存就是在水池裡面那所以沒辦法移出來那爐心裡面也有燃料棒是所以它其實是一個Pending的狀態私式儲存的位置是不是在我們核電廠的廠區內是的那以現在的現況呢核一跟核二廠它的這個私式儲存也就是燃料池的容量"},{"start":208.601,"end":208.621,"text":"吳沛憶"},{"start":228.439,"end":245.152,"text":"按照現在的使用年限因為目前我們核三廠是18個月嘛18個月週期到了就必須要放入燃料池其實也是即將要滿載那所以濕式儲存是其中一個方式我們的這個燃料棒的處理其他的方式是不是還有乾式儲存"},{"start":246.463,"end":270.729,"text":"對,乾式儲存是相對比較安全的所以我們在市市儲存到一定程度乾式儲存的位置阿他是不是也是在核電廠的廠區內在核電廠的廠區裡面那現在有分室外跟室內啦那室外、室內其實是比較大家認為是比較合一跟核電廠的位置都在我們新北市嘛那目前我們的乾式儲存廠蓋了沒有"},{"start":274.065,"end":292.076,"text":"市外只有合一蓋干式儲存廠是啟用 有沒有辦法啟用目前是有干式儲存廠但是沒有辦法啟用那就因為他還必須要跟地方政府商量因為他也牽涉到民意"},{"start":293.436,"end":299.857,"text":"所以說這個我們的核廢料的處置按照目前的情況核三廠的燃料池也即將滿載我們假設沒有辦法啟用乾式儲存廠我們的最終儲置廠甚至連選址在哪裡都不知道在現在的務實的情況下我是堅決反對"},{"start":318.061,"end":318.442,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":333.254,"end":340.619,"text":"根本的問題還是在於我們有沒有新的方式來處理燃料棒也就是我們的核廢料法律的問題沒有辦法去解決安全的問題這一個修法是關於核電廠它運轉執照的延期但是核電廠的運轉跟核廢料的處置這是兩個題目"},{"start":357.071,"end":383.946,"text":"所以我希望我們在這裡可以把這個問題來把它討論清楚那所謂的最終處置廠因為坊間也有一種說法就是說支持核電研議的有一種說法是說那不然啦核廢料可以放在我家我想要請問主委核廢料的最終處置廠現在全世界已經有啟用的就只有芬蘭的那一座最終處置廠是吧"},{"start":385.592,"end":389.293,"text":"他現在在試營運階段2024開始在試營運階段是核廢料的最終儲置場他的這個條件應該是要符合什麼樣的條件有沒有辦法說核廢料就放在我家民眾舉手說我們家願意來儲存核廢料有沒有辦法這樣子進行"},{"start":406.457,"end":431.245,"text":"最終處置廠有相當多的面向第一個是科學的面向是geology是地質的部分要選擇適當的廠址這個是就是什麼樣的廠址是適當的廠址就是這個堅實的研盤那第二個部分是工程的面向是我要在地下做一個地下實驗室怎麼樣把這個所有的這個這個輻射可以阻擋"},{"start":433.749,"end":435.95,"text":"所以我們台電其實在2022年的時候就到芬蘭的安克羅去參訪過"},{"start":452.775,"end":468.2,"text":"這個最終處置場目前芬蘭這一座它是在地下的400多公尺深然後是花崗岩的一個洞穴那麼使用過的燃料用類似罐頭的方式把它封存然後再放到地底下那以這樣子的條件來說我想我們的市區內是沒有辦法找到這樣子的條件"},{"start":474.062,"end":474.182,"text":"昨天歐盟議會"},{"start":494.108,"end":508.246,"text":"議員來我們立法院來拜訪由我們韓國瑜院長來接見那我因為我是立法院歐盟議會友好協會的會長所以我也出席那這個歐洲議會的議員多次跟我們表達說這個"},{"start":511.07,"end":524.525,"text":"當烏俄戰爭發生的時候其實他們非常的擔心因為非常的擔心在烏克蘭的這個核電站會不會遭受攻擊那對於安全會有不堪設想的後果"},{"start":525.506,"end":554.366,"text":"我知道說我們核安會的網站過去有一段時間你們是很密集的在網站上面同步的去更新國際原能署關於烏克蘭核電站斷電的這個情況但是這一段時間以來我比較沒有看到你們在更新訊息那我想這個是國人也需要知道的一個資訊所以我希望核安會可以持續的來監督並且把這個訊息同步在網站上通報給國人知道可不可以做到"},{"start":555.14,"end":556.404,"text":"是的沒有問題好謝謝好謝謝"}]}}}}