{"id":150673,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150673","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8f258e6e9602336831348614724e98861515d914fa3d9c26f8ba9b0039caa7a6bb524b8c4a361c385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:04:19 - 12:07:28","影片長度":"00:03:09","會議時間":"2024-03-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團，為避免物價因電價調漲，民生痛苦指數飆升，因此反對台電公司調漲電價，建請院會作成決議：立即停止調漲電價，並要求行政院責成相關部會即刻檢討現行能源政策並提出因應對策與配套措施，以兼顧人民生計、維持供電穩定及台電公司之正常營運。是否有當？請公決案等3案。（3月29日） \n二、審計長列席報告中華民國111年度中央政府總決算審核報告等案審核經過並備諮詢。（4月2日）\n三、3月29日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、4月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-1-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7},"date":"2024-03-29","duration":189,"end_time":"2024-03-29T12:07:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-29T12:04:19+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1033,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（12時4分）要討論電價問題要先確認兩個最根本的事實，第一個，臺灣的工業跟用電大戶的用電是超過一半以上的；第二，長期以來，我們就是一直用全民的資產在補貼這些用電大戶，他們用的電越多，全民跟台電的補貼也就越多，這也是為什麼今天在立法院外面有十多個民間團體在抗議在野黨要求凍漲或停漲電價，因為他們非常清楚長期不公平的電價結構是亟需改革的。所以這一次台電的電價調整方案是以調漲大戶作為最高的漲幅，這就是很清楚的訊號，政府現在要做的就是要降低過去那些對大用戶不公平的補貼。現在在野黨一直說，調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策，如果這個道理是有邏輯的話，請問現在國際上面，各國的能源政策都錯了嗎？其他國家的電價漲幅都比我們高出許多、許多，是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯、更離譜？如果用在野黨這個邏輯看的話，很明顯這個邏輯是有問題的。電價被調漲，當然大家都不會開心，但如果現在要求停漲或是凍漲，其實就是讓全民鉅額補貼大用戶的現象繼續，這對小市民來說，反倒是更不合理的狀況。","我們當然要全力的督促行政部門要把節電設施、設備的協助以及提高能源效率的配套措施做好，尤其是針對社會上的弱勢，我覺得這部分是可以一起來合作的，但如果現在是要透過立法院的決議要求停漲、要求凍漲，這樣子讓長期補貼大用戶的電價結構繼續下去，其實這可能是更大的能源不正義，這可能是現在在外面這麼多的抗議團體更不樂見的事情，大家從中南部來，就是因為很清楚知道，或我們這些能源專業者都清楚，這個能源結構不改變，未來臺灣的綠色產業的市場結構都不容易做得起來，這也是很多國際上面的能源專業工作者不斷語重心長在提醒臺灣的部分，我們真的要請在野黨深思。能源價格的問題是一個專業的問題，我們可以坐下來好好討論，但不用把它政治化，不用訴諸政治語言，我想這才是全民之福，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","請鍾佳濱委員發言。鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":32,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-7","speakers":["江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-29"],"gazette_id":"1131801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1131801_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"150673","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150673","tool":"pyannote","id":"150673-pyannote"},"job_id":"JDsnbtlapWAhtvU7","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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54.163, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 54.163, \"end\": 54.623, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 54.623, \"end\": 54.763, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 54.763, \"end\": 54.984, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 54.984, \"end\": 55.184, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.184, \"end\": 55.204, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}]}, {\"start\": 56.744, \"end\": 83.173, \"text\": \"事實上現在災黨一直說調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策如果這個道理是有邏輯的話那請問現在國際上面各國的能源政策都錯了嗎其他國家的電價的漲幅都比我們高出許多許多是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯更離譜如果用災黨這個邏輯看的話很明顯這邏輯是有問題的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 56.744, \"end\": 57.004, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 57.004, \"end\": 58.365, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 58.365, \"end\": 58.765, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 58.765, \"end\": 59.725, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"斌\", \"start\": 188.083, \"end\": 188.284, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 188.284, \"end\": 188.304, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,503 --> 00:00:25,891\n要討論電價問題,要先確認兩個最根本的事實。第一個,台灣的工業跟用電大戶的用電是超過一半以上的。第二,長期以來,我們就是一直用全民的資產在補貼這些用電大戶。他們用的電越多,全民跟台電的補貼也就越多。\n\n2\n00:00:26,611 --> 00:00:55,204\n這也是為什麼今天在立法院外面有十多個民間團體在抗議災難要求動漲或停漲電價因為他們非常清楚長期不公平的電價結構就是急需改革的所以這一次台電的電價調整方案是以調漲大戶作為最高的漲幅這就是很清楚的訊號政府現在要做的就是要降低這些過去對大用戶不公平的補貼\n\n3\n00:00:56,744 --> 00:01:23,173\n事實上現在災黨一直說調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策如果這個道理是有邏輯的話那請問現在國際上面各國的能源政策都錯了嗎其他國家的電價的漲幅都比我們高出許多許多是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯更離譜如果用災黨這個邏輯看的話很明顯這邏輯是有問題的\n\n4\n00:01:28,364 --> 00:01:42,061\n電價被調漲當然大家都不會開心但如果現在要求停漲或是動漲那其實就是讓全民巨額補貼大用戶的現象會繼續這對小市民來說反倒是更不合理的狀況\n\n5\n00:01:43,602 --> 00:02:06,241\n當然我們當然要全力的督促行政部門要把節電設施設備的協助還有提高能源效率的配套措施要做好尤其是針對社會上面的弱勢我覺得這部分是可以一起來合作的但如果現在是要透過立法院的決議要求停漲要求動漲這樣子讓長期補貼大用戶的電價結構繼續下去\n\n6\n00:02:11,926 --> 00:02:30,211\n其實這可能是更大的能源不正義這可能是現在大家在外面有這麼多抗議的團體更不樂見的事情大家從中南部來就是因為很清楚知道或我們這些能源的專業者都清楚這個能源結構不改變其實未來台灣的這個\n\n7\n00:02:32,411 --> 00:02:56,623\n綠色市場、綠色產業的市場結構都不容易做得起來這也是很多國際上面的能源專業工作者不斷與眾心藏在提醒台灣的部分我們真的邀請在黨深思能源價格的問題是一個專業的問題我們可以坐下來好好討論但不用把它政治化不用訴諸政治語言我想這才是全民之福謝謝謝謝\n\n8\n00:03:01,376 --> 00:03:08,304\n請鍾嘉斌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7503\t25891\t要討論電價問題,要先確認兩個最根本的事實。第一個,台灣的工業跟用電大戶的用電是超過一半以上的。第二,長期以來,我們就是一直用全民的資產在補貼這些用電大戶。他們用的電越多,全民跟台電的補貼也就越多。\n26611\t55204\t這也是為什麼今天在立法院外面有十多個民間團體在抗議災難要求動漲或停漲電價因為他們非常清楚長期不公平的電價結構就是急需改革的所以這一次台電的電價調整方案是以調漲大戶作為最高的漲幅這就是很清楚的訊號政府現在要做的就是要降低這些過去對大用戶不公平的補貼\n56744\t83173\t事實上現在災黨一直說調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策如果這個道理是有邏輯的話那請問現在國際上面各國的能源政策都錯了嗎其他國家的電價的漲幅都比我們高出許多許多是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯更離譜如果用災黨這個邏輯看的話很明顯這邏輯是有問題的\n88364\t102061\t電價被調漲當然大家都不會開心但如果現在要求停漲或是動漲那其實就是讓全民巨額補貼大用戶的現象會繼續這對小市民來說反倒是更不合理的狀況\n103602\t126241\t當然我們當然要全力的督促行政部門要把節電設施設備的協助還有提高能源效率的配套措施要做好尤其是針對社會上面的弱勢我覺得這部分是可以一起來合作的但如果現在是要透過立法院的決議要求停漲要求動漲這樣子讓長期補貼大用戶的電價結構繼續下去\n131926\t150211\t其實這可能是更大的能源不正義這可能是現在大家在外面有這麼多抗議的團體更不樂見的事情大家從中南部來就是因為很清楚知道或我們這些能源的專業者都清楚這個能源結構不改變其實未來台灣的這個\n152411\t176623\t綠色市場、綠色產業的市場結構都不容易做得起來這也是很多國際上面的能源專業工作者不斷與眾心藏在提醒台灣的部分我們真的邀請在黨深思能源價格的問題是一個專業的問題我們可以坐下來好好討論但不用把它政治化不用訴諸政治語言我想這才是全民之福謝謝謝謝\n181376\t188304\t請鍾嘉斌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員\n","txt":"要討論電價問題,要先確認兩個最根本的事實。第一個,台灣的工業跟用電大戶的用電是超過一半以上的。第二,長期以來,我們就是一直用全民的資產在補貼這些用電大戶。他們用的電越多,全民跟台電的補貼也就越多。\n這也是為什麼今天在立法院外面有十多個民間團體在抗議災難要求動漲或停漲電價因為他們非常清楚長期不公平的電價結構就是急需改革的所以這一次台電的電價調整方案是以調漲大戶作為最高的漲幅這就是很清楚的訊號政府現在要做的就是要降低這些過去對大用戶不公平的補貼\n事實上現在災黨一直說調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策如果這個道理是有邏輯的話那請問現在國際上面各國的能源政策都錯了嗎其他國家的電價的漲幅都比我們高出許多許多是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯更離譜如果用災黨這個邏輯看的話很明顯這邏輯是有問題的\n電價被調漲當然大家都不會開心但如果現在要求停漲或是動漲那其實就是讓全民巨額補貼大用戶的現象會繼續這對小市民來說反倒是更不合理的狀況\n當然我們當然要全力的督促行政部門要把節電設施設備的協助還有提高能源效率的配套措施要做好尤其是針對社會上面的弱勢我覺得這部分是可以一起來合作的但如果現在是要透過立法院的決議要求停漲要求動漲這樣子讓長期補貼大用戶的電價結構繼續下去\n其實這可能是更大的能源不正義這可能是現在大家在外面有這麼多抗議的團體更不樂見的事情大家從中南部來就是因為很清楚知道或我們這些能源的專業者都清楚這個能源結構不改變其實未來台灣的這個\n綠色市場、綠色產業的市場結構都不容易做得起來這也是很多國際上面的能源專業工作者不斷與眾心藏在提醒台灣的部分我們真的邀請在黨深思能源價格的問題是一個專業的問題我們可以坐下來好好討論但不用把它政治化不用訴諸政治語言我想這才是全民之福謝謝謝謝\n請鍾嘉斌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.503 --> 00:25.891\n要討論電價問題,要先確認兩個最根本的事實。第一個,台灣的工業跟用電大戶的用電是超過一半以上的。第二,長期以來,我們就是一直用全民的資產在補貼這些用電大戶。他們用的電越多,全民跟台電的補貼也就越多。\n\n00:26.611 --> 00:55.204\n這也是為什麼今天在立法院外面有十多個民間團體在抗議災難要求動漲或停漲電價因為他們非常清楚長期不公平的電價結構就是急需改革的所以這一次台電的電價調整方案是以調漲大戶作為最高的漲幅這就是很清楚的訊號政府現在要做的就是要降低這些過去對大用戶不公平的補貼\n\n00:56.744 --> 01:23.173\n事實上現在災黨一直說調漲電價是因為錯誤的能源政策如果這個道理是有邏輯的話那請問現在國際上面各國的能源政策都錯了嗎其他國家的電價的漲幅都比我們高出許多許多是不是代表其他國家的能源政策都比我們更錯更離譜如果用災黨這個邏輯看的話很明顯這邏輯是有問題的\n\n01:28.364 --> 01:42.061\n電價被調漲當然大家都不會開心但如果現在要求停漲或是動漲那其實就是讓全民巨額補貼大用戶的現象會繼續這對小市民來說反倒是更不合理的狀況\n\n01:43.602 --> 02:06.241\n當然我們當然要全力的督促行政部門要把節電設施設備的協助還有提高能源效率的配套措施要做好尤其是針對社會上面的弱勢我覺得這部分是可以一起來合作的但如果現在是要透過立法院的決議要求停漲要求動漲這樣子讓長期補貼大用戶的電價結構繼續下去\n\n02:11.926 --> 02:30.211\n其實這可能是更大的能源不正義這可能是現在大家在外面有這麼多抗議的團體更不樂見的事情大家從中南部來就是因為很清楚知道或我們這些能源的專業者都清楚這個能源結構不改變其實未來台灣的這個\n\n02:32.411 --> 02:56.623\n綠色市場、綠色產業的市場結構都不容易做得起來這也是很多國際上面的能源專業工作者不斷與眾心藏在提醒台灣的部分我們真的邀請在黨深思能源價格的問題是一個專業的問題我們可以坐下來好好討論但不用把它政治化不用訴諸政治語言我想這才是全民之福謝謝謝謝\n\n03:01.376 --> 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