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09:24:45","影片長度":"00:07:52","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":472,"end_time":"2024-04-01T09:24:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T09:16:53+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":60,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時17分）謝謝主席。我先請交通部次長。"],["主席：請交通部次長。"],["邱委員議瑩：次長早。"],["胡次長湘麟：邱委員，您早。"],["邱委員議瑩：次長，請教一下，王國材部長曾經在院會總質詢答詢，說環島高鐵不是夢，看起來交通部應該也是支持往環島高鐵這樣的夢想在持續前進，對不對？"],["胡次長湘麟：環島高鐵是過去交通部的施政願景，這個部分我們支持。"],["邱委員議瑩：你們一直有在做可行性評估，一直有在做相關的研究、規劃，是這樣嘛？"],["胡次長湘麟：我們為了促成這件事情，從北部的臺北延伸，現在正在做宜蘭案子的綜合規劃；另外從左營要延伸到屏東，我們也在做綜合規劃。這兩個做綜合規劃的同時，我們在兩個端點都保持未來延伸的部分，所以我們的立場是逐步、逐步這樣走。"],["邱委員議瑩：逐步在推動。臺灣所有的重大交通建設應該都是由交通部來規劃、評估，是不是這樣？"],["胡次長湘麟：是，現行的狀況是這樣。"],["邱委員議瑩：請看一下，這個是我們國家公共建設主要的流程，我剛剛問到初期階段的可行性評估，接下來綜合規劃、基本設計、細部設計、施工發包一直到完工驗收，包括前期的可行性評估跟綜規，所有的這些都是交通部的職權，對不對？"],["胡次長湘麟：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：重大的交通建設應該是這樣嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是，主管機關變成國發會，所以今天在經濟委員會主審環島高鐵特別條例，我一直覺得很納悶，這不是交通部的事情嗎？怎麼會是在經濟委員會主審重大的交通建設？原來是提案人傅委員在提案的時候就講，主管機關是國發會。請問國發會對交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃、對交通建設的瞭解，會比交通部深嗎？看起來應該是不會，對不對？"],["胡次長湘麟：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪。接下來，我要再更進一步請教，這個條例第五條說，國發會應該要有以下這些綜合建設方案，然後完成的期限不逾10年為限，換一句白話就是從可行性評估一直到施工發包、完工驗收，10年之內要完成，底下還包括很多要件。我先講10年這件事，本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年，我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆，往第16年邁進。我爭取國道10號延伸到六龜，這件事情搞了10年，好不容易在去年年底施工發包，只來到施工發包階段，還沒有到完工驗收階段，就已經花了10年的時間。國道10號延伸到六龜，交通部預期整個建設最快要4年才能夠完成，所以國道10號延伸到整個完成，最少要超過15年。這麼重大的環島高速鐵路建設特別條例要求要在10年之內完成，您覺得合理嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：我覺得10年之內從可行性研究開始到最後完工，相對於過去各個計畫執行的經驗，相對比較樂觀，而且可能跟實際上的需求有比較大的差距。"],["邱委員議瑩：這個相對的樂觀，你當然講的比較保守，但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講，這是困難重重。比如我看到他講的，第一個、方案目標跟實施範圍；第二個、可行性評估方案；第三個、高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃，這少說也要兩、三年；第四個、土地徵收取得，這一條很嚴重，土地徵收取得單在土地協調的部分，就必須花上很多時間，如果土地的主人不同意，政府是要採取強制徵收嗎？跟王一樣，我就是要做，你的土地就是要交出來，除非跟王一樣的去徵收，否則不可能在10年之內完成。","這個特別條例感覺出來的是不知道錢在哪裡，也沒有講要多少錢，然後只設一個時限，就是叫你們10年之內完成，而且還不是叫交通部去評估，是叫國發會去評估，叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估，我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要過、真的要做，還是只是胡說八道？剛剛傅總召說，交通部王部長說環島高速鐵路不是夢，希望能夠完成，我們當然也樂觀其成，但是應該要循序漸進，按照所有的規劃流程進行比較符合常理。可是我不曉得韓院長在剛剛的影片裡面又加了一段，說還要打通中央山脈，我的天！打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面，所以他說他只提兩個案。他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈，條例沒有包括打通中央山脈，是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去？要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎？打通中央山脈，我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊！","大家都願意推動建設，我為了推動國道10號延伸弄了10幾年，假如可以這樣子，每一個立法委員都去搞一部重大建設發展條例，我也請我的助理開始寫高雄重大建設發展條例，這個沒有預算，我的預算大概是1兆，我也要懇請國發會。重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通，而是整個高雄所有的經貿發展，當然我就要懇請國發會予以大力支持！1兆就好了，我不貪心。過去重北輕南，這一次請國發會能夠比照這樣的特別條例運作模式，給高雄一個重大起飛的機會，給我們1兆就好了，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請呂玉玲委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"好\", \"start\": 467.518, \"end\": 467.958, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 467.958, \"end\": 467.978, \"score\": 0.09}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,291 --> 00:00:07,472\n交通部次長\n\n2\n00:00:20,632 --> 00:00:43,029\n市長請教一下剛剛這個王國才部長曾經在院會的總之選裡頭答詢說這個環島高鐵不是夢嘛那看起來交通部應該也是支持這個往環島來做鐵路環島的高鐵鐵路這樣的一個夢想在持續往前進對不對\n\n3\n00:00:45,151 --> 00:01:03,461\n這個環島高鐵是過去交通部的一個施政願景,這個部分我們是支持……你們一直有在做可行性評估,一直有在做相關的研究規劃嗎?我們為了促成這件事情,從現有的北部的,從台北我們現在正在做宜蘭的案子的綜合規劃。\n\n4\n00:01:04,562 --> 00:01:28,794\n那另外從左營部分要延伸到屏東我們也在做綜合規劃同時這兩個做綜合規劃的時候在兩個端點我們都保持未來延伸的部分所以我們的立場是逐步逐步這樣走逐步在推動齁臺灣的所有的重大的交通建設應該都是由交通部來做規劃、評估是,現行的這種狀況來我請看一下這個\n\n5\n00:01:31,227 --> 00:01:41,621\n這是我們國家公共建設的主要的這個流程啦齁我剛剛問到了在初期的階段可行性評估接下來綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計、施工\n\n6\n00:01:46,707 --> 00:02:04,636\n發包一直到完工驗收所有的這一些包括前期的可行性評估跟重規這個都是在交通部的職權嘛對不對重大的交通建設應該是這樣可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是這個特別條例的主管機關變成了國發會\n\n7\n00:02:07,117 --> 00:02:25,525\n所以今天在經濟委員會來主審環島高鐵特別條例我一直覺得很納悶這不是交通部的事情嗎怎麼會是在經濟委員會來主審重大的交通建設原來是提案人副委員在提案的時候就講主管機關是國發會\n\n8\n00:02:28,387 --> 00:02:46,277\n請問國發會對於交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃對交通建設的瞭解會比交通不深嗎?看起來應該是不會嘛,對不對?是所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪接下來我要再更進一步請教\n\n9\n00:02:48,014 --> 00:03:16,222\n這個條例的第5條講說這個國發會阿應該要有以下的這些綜合建設方案然後呢完成了期限不逾10年為限換一句白話就是說你們的這一些可行性評估一直到施工發包到完工驗收10年之內要完成那底下呢還會包括很多的要件我先講10年這件事阿次長\n\n10\n00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:36,630\n本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆往第16年邁進了我爭取國道10號延伸到六規這件事情搞了10年\n\n11\n00:03:38,231 --> 00:04:07,085\n好不容易在去年年底施工發包我只來到施工發包這個階段喔還沒有到完工驗收這個階段喔我們就已經花了10年的時間國道10號延伸到六龜整個建設交通部預期最快要4年才能夠完成所以我的國道10號延伸到整個完成最少要超過15年最少啦\n\n12\n00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:18,487\n那這麼重大的環島高速鐵路特別條例要求要在10年之內完成,您覺得合理嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:20,164 --> 00:04:44,952\n我覺得這個10年包括從可行線研究開始到最後完工10年之內相對於過去的各個計畫執行之一相對是比較樂觀而且是可能跟實際上的需求可能有比較大的差距這個相對的樂觀你當然講的是比較保守啦但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講這是困難重重啦\n\n14\n00:04:45,532 --> 00:05:14,410\n比如說我看到他講的這個方案目標跟實施範圍第二個可行性評估方案第三個高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃這少說也要兩三年嘛第四個土地徵收取得這一條很嚴重啊土地徵收取得單單你在土地的協調的部分你就必須花上很多很多的時間如果\n\n15\n00:05:15,515 --> 00:05:38,142\n土地的主人不同意,那政府是要採取強制徵收嗎?跟王一樣,我就是要做,你土地就是要搞出來,跟王一樣的去徵收,否則你不可能在10年之內完成啊。那整個這個特別條例感覺出來,不知道錢在哪裡,也沒有講要多少錢。\n\n16\n00:05:39,775 --> 00:05:55,272\n然後只設了一個時限就是叫你們10年之內完成,而且還不是叫交通部去評估,叫國發會去評估,叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估,那我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要給他過,真的要做,還是只是胡說八道?\n\n17\n00:05:56,253 --> 00:06:22,254\n那剛剛這個副總召說環島高速鐵路這個交通部王部長說不是夢希望能夠完成我們也當然樂觀其成啊但是應該是要循序漸進按照所有的這些規劃流程去進行這是比較符合常理嘛可是我不曉得剛剛我們的韓院長在影片裡面又加了一段說還要打通中央山脈\n\n18\n00:06:23,885 --> 00:06:46,821\n我的天吶打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面欸所以他說他只提兩個案那他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈欸那條例沒有包括打通中央山脈那是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎那打通中央山脈這個我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊\n\n19\n00:06:48,447 --> 00:07:09,256\n所以次長我覺得是這樣啦吼推動建設大家都願意我為了推動國道10號延伸我弄了十幾年那假如可以這樣子每一個立法委員都去搞一條重大建設發展條例那我也請我的助理開始在寫高雄重大建設發展條例\n\n20\n00:07:11,469 --> 00:07:37,089\n這個沒有預算我的預算大概是一兆我也要懇請國發會重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通囉這整個高雄的所有的經貿發展喔這個當然我就要懇請國發會來予以大力支持喔一兆一兆就好了我都不貪心給我們高雄過去重北輕南這一次請國發會能夠比照\n\n21\n00:07:38,290 --> 00:07:47,978\n這樣的特別條例的運作模式給高雄一個重大起飛的機會給我們一兆就好了好不好好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6291\t7472\t交通部次長\n20632\t43029\t市長請教一下剛剛這個王國才部長曾經在院會的總之選裡頭答詢說這個環島高鐵不是夢嘛那看起來交通部應該也是支持這個往環島來做鐵路環島的高鐵鐵路這樣的一個夢想在持續往前進對不對\n45151\t63461\t這個環島高鐵是過去交通部的一個施政願景,這個部分我們是支持……你們一直有在做可行性評估,一直有在做相關的研究規劃嗎?我們為了促成這件事情,從現有的北部的,從台北我們現在正在做宜蘭的案子的綜合規劃。\n64562\t88794\t那另外從左營部分要延伸到屏東我們也在做綜合規劃同時這兩個做綜合規劃的時候在兩個端點我們都保持未來延伸的部分所以我們的立場是逐步逐步這樣走逐步在推動齁臺灣的所有的重大的交通建設應該都是由交通部來做規劃、評估是,現行的這種狀況來我請看一下這個\n91227\t101621\t這是我們國家公共建設的主要的這個流程啦齁我剛剛問到了在初期的階段可行性評估接下來綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計、施工\n106707\t124636\t發包一直到完工驗收所有的這一些包括前期的可行性評估跟重規這個都是在交通部的職權嘛對不對重大的交通建設應該是這樣可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是這個特別條例的主管機關變成了國發會\n127117\t145525\t所以今天在經濟委員會來主審環島高鐵特別條例我一直覺得很納悶這不是交通部的事情嗎怎麼會是在經濟委員會來主審重大的交通建設原來是提案人副委員在提案的時候就講主管機關是國發會\n148387\t166277\t請問國發會對於交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃對交通建設的瞭解會比交通不深嗎?看起來應該是不會嘛,對不對?是所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪接下來我要再更進一步請教\n168014\t196222\t這個條例的第5條講說這個國發會阿應該要有以下的這些綜合建設方案然後呢完成了期限不逾10年為限換一句白話就是說你們的這一些可行性評估一直到施工發包到完工驗收10年之內要完成那底下呢還會包括很多的要件我先講10年這件事阿次長\n197540\t216630\t本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆往第16年邁進了我爭取國道10號延伸到六規這件事情搞了10年\n218231\t247085\t好不容易在去年年底施工發包我只來到施工發包這個階段喔還沒有到完工驗收這個階段喔我們就已經花了10年的時間國道10號延伸到六龜整個建設交通部預期最快要4年才能夠完成所以我的國道10號延伸到整個完成最少要超過15年最少啦\n248879\t258487\t那這麼重大的環島高速鐵路特別條例要求要在10年之內完成,您覺得合理嗎?\n260164\t284952\t我覺得這個10年包括從可行線研究開始到最後完工10年之內相對於過去的各個計畫執行之一相對是比較樂觀而且是可能跟實際上的需求可能有比較大的差距這個相對的樂觀你當然講的是比較保守啦但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講這是困難重重啦\n285532\t314410\t比如說我看到他講的這個方案目標跟實施範圍第二個可行性評估方案第三個高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃這少說也要兩三年嘛第四個土地徵收取得這一條很嚴重啊土地徵收取得單單你在土地的協調的部分你就必須花上很多很多的時間如果\n315515\t338142\t土地的主人不同意,那政府是要採取強制徵收嗎?跟王一樣,我就是要做,你土地就是要搞出來,跟王一樣的去徵收,否則你不可能在10年之內完成啊。那整個這個特別條例感覺出來,不知道錢在哪裡,也沒有講要多少錢。\n339775\t355272\t然後只設了一個時限就是叫你們10年之內完成,而且還不是叫交通部去評估,叫國發會去評估,叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估,那我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要給他過,真的要做,還是只是胡說八道?\n356253\t382254\t那剛剛這個副總召說環島高速鐵路這個交通部王部長說不是夢希望能夠完成我們也當然樂觀其成啊但是應該是要循序漸進按照所有的這些規劃流程去進行這是比較符合常理嘛可是我不曉得剛剛我們的韓院長在影片裡面又加了一段說還要打通中央山脈\n383885\t406821\t我的天吶 打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面欸 所以他說他只提兩個案 那他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈欸那條例沒有包括打通中央山脈 那是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去 要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎那打通中央山脈 這個我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊\n408447\t429256\t所以次長我覺得是這樣啦吼推動建設大家都願意我為了推動國道10號延伸我弄了十幾年那假如可以這樣子每一個立法委員都去搞一條重大建設發展條例那我也請我的助理開始在寫高雄重大建設發展條例\n431469\t457089\t這個沒有預算我的預算大概是一兆我也要懇請國發會重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通囉這整個高雄的所有的經貿發展喔這個當然我就要懇請國發會來予以大力支持喔一兆一兆就好了我都不貪心給我們高雄過去重北輕南這一次請國發會能夠比照\n458290\t467978\t這樣的特別條例的運作模式給高雄一個重大起飛的機會給我們一兆就好了好不好好謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"交通部次長\n市長請教一下剛剛這個王國才部長曾經在院會的總之選裡頭答詢說這個環島高鐵不是夢嘛那看起來交通部應該也是支持這個往環島來做鐵路環島的高鐵鐵路這樣的一個夢想在持續往前進對不對\n這個環島高鐵是過去交通部的一個施政願景,這個部分我們是支持……你們一直有在做可行性評估,一直有在做相關的研究規劃嗎?我們為了促成這件事情,從現有的北部的,從台北我們現在正在做宜蘭的案子的綜合規劃。\n那另外從左營部分要延伸到屏東我們也在做綜合規劃同時這兩個做綜合規劃的時候在兩個端點我們都保持未來延伸的部分所以我們的立場是逐步逐步這樣走逐步在推動齁臺灣的所有的重大的交通建設應該都是由交通部來做規劃、評估是,現行的這種狀況來我請看一下這個\n這是我們國家公共建設的主要的這個流程啦齁我剛剛問到了在初期的階段可行性評估接下來綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計、施工\n發包一直到完工驗收所有的這一些包括前期的可行性評估跟重規這個都是在交通部的職權嘛對不對重大的交通建設應該是這樣可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是這個特別條例的主管機關變成了國發會\n所以今天在經濟委員會來主審環島高鐵特別條例我一直覺得很納悶這不是交通部的事情嗎怎麼會是在經濟委員會來主審重大的交通建設原來是提案人副委員在提案的時候就講主管機關是國發會\n請問國發會對於交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃對交通建設的瞭解會比交通不深嗎?看起來應該是不會嘛,對不對?是所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪接下來我要再更進一步請教\n這個條例的第5條講說這個國發會阿應該要有以下的這些綜合建設方案然後呢完成了期限不逾10年為限換一句白話就是說你們的這一些可行性評估一直到施工發包到完工驗收10年之內要完成那底下呢還會包括很多的要件我先講10年這件事阿次長\n本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆往第16年邁進了我爭取國道10號延伸到六規這件事情搞了10年\n好不容易在去年年底施工發包我只來到施工發包這個階段喔還沒有到完工驗收這個階段喔我們就已經花了10年的時間國道10號延伸到六龜整個建設交通部預期最快要4年才能夠完成所以我的國道10號延伸到整個完成最少要超過15年最少啦\n那這麼重大的環島高速鐵路特別條例要求要在10年之內完成,您覺得合理嗎?\n我覺得這個10年包括從可行線研究開始到最後完工10年之內相對於過去的各個計畫執行之一相對是比較樂觀而且是可能跟實際上的需求可能有比較大的差距這個相對的樂觀你當然講的是比較保守啦但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講這是困難重重啦\n比如說我看到他講的這個方案目標跟實施範圍第二個可行性評估方案第三個高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃這少說也要兩三年嘛第四個土地徵收取得這一條很嚴重啊土地徵收取得單單你在土地的協調的部分你就必須花上很多很多的時間如果\n土地的主人不同意,那政府是要採取強制徵收嗎?跟王一樣,我就是要做,你土地就是要搞出來,跟王一樣的去徵收,否則你不可能在10年之內完成啊。那整個這個特別條例感覺出來,不知道錢在哪裡,也沒有講要多少錢。\n然後只設了一個時限就是叫你們10年之內完成,而且還不是叫交通部去評估,叫國發會去評估,叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估,那我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要給他過,真的要做,還是只是胡說八道?\n那剛剛這個副總召說環島高速鐵路這個交通部王部長說不是夢希望能夠完成我們也當然樂觀其成啊但是應該是要循序漸進按照所有的這些規劃流程去進行這是比較符合常理嘛可是我不曉得剛剛我們的韓院長在影片裡面又加了一段說還要打通中央山脈\n我的天吶 打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面欸 所以他說他只提兩個案 那他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈欸那條例沒有包括打通中央山脈 那是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去 要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎那打通中央山脈 這個我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊\n所以次長我覺得是這樣啦吼推動建設大家都願意我為了推動國道10號延伸我弄了十幾年那假如可以這樣子每一個立法委員都去搞一條重大建設發展條例那我也請我的助理開始在寫高雄重大建設發展條例\n這個沒有預算我的預算大概是一兆我也要懇請國發會重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通囉這整個高雄的所有的經貿發展喔這個當然我就要懇請國發會來予以大力支持喔一兆一兆就好了我都不貪心給我們高雄過去重北輕南這一次請國發會能夠比照\n這樣的特別條例的運作模式給高雄一個重大起飛的機會給我們一兆就好了好不好好謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.291 --> 00:07.472\n交通部次長\n\n00:20.632 --> 00:43.029\n市長請教一下剛剛這個王國才部長曾經在院會的總之選裡頭答詢說這個環島高鐵不是夢嘛那看起來交通部應該也是支持這個往環島來做鐵路環島的高鐵鐵路這樣的一個夢想在持續往前進對不對\n\n00:45.151 --> 01:03.461\n這個環島高鐵是過去交通部的一個施政願景,這個部分我們是支持……你們一直有在做可行性評估,一直有在做相關的研究規劃嗎?我們為了促成這件事情,從現有的北部的,從台北我們現在正在做宜蘭的案子的綜合規劃。\n\n01:04.562 --> 01:28.794\n那另外從左營部分要延伸到屏東我們也在做綜合規劃同時這兩個做綜合規劃的時候在兩個端點我們都保持未來延伸的部分所以我們的立場是逐步逐步這樣走逐步在推動齁臺灣的所有的重大的交通建設應該都是由交通部來做規劃、評估是,現行的這種狀況來我請看一下這個\n\n01:31.227 --> 01:41.621\n這是我們國家公共建設的主要的這個流程啦齁我剛剛問到了在初期的階段可行性評估接下來綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計、施工\n\n01:46.707 --> 02:04.636\n發包一直到完工驗收所有的這一些包括前期的可行性評估跟重規這個都是在交通部的職權嘛對不對重大的交通建設應該是這樣可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是這個特別條例的主管機關變成了國發會\n\n02:07.117 --> 02:25.525\n所以今天在經濟委員會來主審環島高鐵特別條例我一直覺得很納悶這不是交通部的事情嗎怎麼會是在經濟委員會來主審重大的交通建設原來是提案人副委員在提案的時候就講主管機關是國發會\n\n02:28.387 --> 02:46.277\n請問國發會對於交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃對交通建設的瞭解會比交通不深嗎?看起來應該是不會嘛,對不對?是所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪接下來我要再更進一步請教\n\n02:48.014 --> 03:16.222\n這個條例的第5條講說這個國發會阿應該要有以下的這些綜合建設方案然後呢完成了期限不逾10年為限換一句白話就是說你們的這一些可行性評估一直到施工發包到完工驗收10年之內要完成那底下呢還會包括很多的要件我先講10年這件事阿次長\n\n03:17.540 --> 03:36.630\n本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆往第16年邁進了我爭取國道10號延伸到六規這件事情搞了10年\n\n03:38.231 --> 04:07.085\n好不容易在去年年底施工發包我只來到施工發包這個階段喔還沒有到完工驗收這個階段喔我們就已經花了10年的時間國道10號延伸到六龜整個建設交通部預期最快要4年才能夠完成所以我的國道10號延伸到整個完成最少要超過15年最少啦\n\n04:08.879 --> 04:18.487\n那這麼重大的環島高速鐵路特別條例要求要在10年之內完成,您覺得合理嗎?\n\n04:20.164 --> 04:44.952\n我覺得這個10年包括從可行線研究開始到最後完工10年之內相對於過去的各個計畫執行之一相對是比較樂觀而且是可能跟實際上的需求可能有比較大的差距這個相對的樂觀你當然講的是比較保守啦但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講這是困難重重啦\n\n04:45.532 --> 05:14.410\n比如說我看到他講的這個方案目標跟實施範圍第二個可行性評估方案第三個高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃這少說也要兩三年嘛第四個土地徵收取得這一條很嚴重啊土地徵收取得單單你在土地的協調的部分你就必須花上很多很多的時間如果\n\n05:15.515 --> 05:38.142\n土地的主人不同意,那政府是要採取強制徵收嗎?跟王一樣,我就是要做,你土地就是要搞出來,跟王一樣的去徵收,否則你不可能在10年之內完成啊。那整個這個特別條例感覺出來,不知道錢在哪裡,也沒有講要多少錢。\n\n05:39.775 --> 05:55.272\n然後只設了一個時限就是叫你們10年之內完成,而且還不是叫交通部去評估,叫國發會去評估,叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估,那我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要給他過,真的要做,還是只是胡說八道?\n\n05:56.253 --> 06:22.254\n那剛剛這個副總召說環島高速鐵路這個交通部王部長說不是夢希望能夠完成我們也當然樂觀其成啊但是應該是要循序漸進按照所有的這些規劃流程去進行這是比較符合常理嘛可是我不曉得剛剛我們的韓院長在影片裡面又加了一段說還要打通中央山脈\n\n06:23.885 --> 06:46.821\n我的天吶打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面欸所以他說他只提兩個案那他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈欸那條例沒有包括打通中央山脈那是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎那打通中央山脈這個我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊\n\n06:48.447 --> 07:09.256\n所以次長我覺得是這樣啦吼推動建設大家都願意我為了推動國道10號延伸我弄了十幾年那假如可以這樣子每一個立法委員都去搞一條重大建設發展條例那我也請我的助理開始在寫高雄重大建設發展條例\n\n07:11.469 --> 07:37.089\n這個沒有預算我的預算大概是一兆我也要懇請國發會重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通囉這整個高雄的所有的經貿發展喔這個當然我就要懇請國發會來予以大力支持喔一兆一兆就好了我都不貪心給我們高雄過去重北輕南這一次請國發會能夠比照\n\n07:38.290 --> 07:47.978\n這樣的特別條例的運作模式給高雄一個重大起飛的機會給我們一兆就好了好不好好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.291,"end":7.472,"text":"交通部次長"},{"start":20.632,"end":43.029,"text":"市長請教一下剛剛這個王國才部長曾經在院會的總之選裡頭答詢說這個環島高鐵不是夢嘛那看起來交通部應該也是支持這個往環島來做鐵路環島的高鐵鐵路這樣的一個夢想在持續往前進對不對"},{"start":45.151,"end":63.461,"text":"這個環島高鐵是過去交通部的一個施政願景,這個部分我們是支持……你們一直有在做可行性評估,一直有在做相關的研究規劃嗎?我們為了促成這件事情,從現有的北部的,從台北我們現在正在做宜蘭的案子的綜合規劃。"},{"start":64.562,"end":88.794,"text":"那另外從左營部分要延伸到屏東我們也在做綜合規劃同時這兩個做綜合規劃的時候在兩個端點我們都保持未來延伸的部分所以我們的立場是逐步逐步這樣走逐步在推動齁臺灣的所有的重大的交通建設應該都是由交通部來做規劃、評估是,現行的這種狀況來我請看一下這個"},{"start":91.227,"end":101.621,"text":"這是我們國家公共建設的主要的這個流程啦齁我剛剛問到了在初期的階段可行性評估接下來綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計、施工"},{"start":106.707,"end":124.636,"text":"發包一直到完工驗收所有的這一些包括前期的可行性評估跟重規這個都是在交通部的職權嘛對不對重大的交通建設應該是這樣可是這個特別條例比較特殊的是這個特別條例的主管機關變成了國發會"},{"start":127.117,"end":145.525,"text":"所以今天在經濟委員會來主審環島高鐵特別條例我一直覺得很納悶這不是交通部的事情嗎怎麼會是在經濟委員會來主審重大的交通建設原來是提案人副委員在提案的時候就講主管機關是國發會"},{"start":148.387,"end":166.277,"text":"請問國發會對於交通建設的可行性評估跟交通建設的規劃對交通建設的瞭解會比交通不深嗎?看起來應該是不會嘛,對不對?是所以這個條例的提出有一點奇怪接下來我要再更進一步請教"},{"start":168.014,"end":196.222,"text":"這個條例的第5條講說這個國發會阿應該要有以下的這些綜合建設方案然後呢完成了期限不逾10年為限換一句白話就是說你們的這一些可行性評估一直到施工發包到完工驗收10年之內要完成那底下呢還會包括很多的要件我先講10年這件事阿次長"},{"start":197.54,"end":216.63,"text":"本席擔任立法委員已經超過20年我在旗美地區擔任立法委員現在是第4屆往第16年邁進了我爭取國道10號延伸到六規這件事情搞了10年"},{"start":218.231,"end":247.085,"text":"好不容易在去年年底施工發包我只來到施工發包這個階段喔還沒有到完工驗收這個階段喔我們就已經花了10年的時間國道10號延伸到六龜整個建設交通部預期最快要4年才能夠完成所以我的國道10號延伸到整個完成最少要超過15年最少啦"},{"start":248.879,"end":258.487,"text":"那這麼重大的環島高速鐵路特別條例要求要在10年之內完成,您覺得合理嗎?"},{"start":260.164,"end":284.952,"text":"我覺得這個10年包括從可行線研究開始到最後完工10年之內相對於過去的各個計畫執行之一相對是比較樂觀而且是可能跟實際上的需求可能有比較大的差距這個相對的樂觀你當然講的是比較保守啦但是我覺得就你們在實際的執行面上來講這是困難重重啦"},{"start":285.532,"end":314.41,"text":"比如說我看到他講的這個方案目標跟實施範圍第二個可行性評估方案第三個高速鐵路沿線的建設規劃這少說也要兩三年嘛第四個土地徵收取得這一條很嚴重啊土地徵收取得單單你在土地的協調的部分你就必須花上很多很多的時間如果"},{"start":315.515,"end":338.142,"text":"土地的主人不同意,那政府是要採取強制徵收嗎?跟王一樣,我就是要做,你土地就是要搞出來,跟王一樣的去徵收,否則你不可能在10年之內完成啊。那整個這個特別條例感覺出來,不知道錢在哪裡,也沒有講要多少錢。"},{"start":339.775,"end":355.272,"text":"然後只設了一個時限就是叫你們10年之內完成,而且還不是叫交通部去評估,叫國發會去評估,叫一個不是懂交通的國發會去評估,那我也不太懂這個條例到底推出來是真的要給他過,真的要做,還是只是胡說八道?"},{"start":356.253,"end":382.254,"text":"那剛剛這個副總召說環島高速鐵路這個交通部王部長說不是夢希望能夠完成我們也當然樂觀其成啊但是應該是要循序漸進按照所有的這些規劃流程去進行這是比較符合常理嘛可是我不曉得剛剛我們的韓院長在影片裡面又加了一段說還要打通中央山脈"},{"start":383.885,"end":406.821,"text":"我的天吶 打通中央山脈沒有在這個條例裡面欸 所以他說他只提兩個案 那他提的那兩個案沒有包括打通中央山脈欸那條例沒有包括打通中央山脈 那是不是打通中央山脈也要放進去 要弄一個修正動議把它放進去嗎那打通中央山脈 這個我看你們的評估可能10年之內都做不到啊"},{"start":408.447,"end":429.256,"text":"所以次長我覺得是這樣啦吼推動建設大家都願意我為了推動國道10號延伸我弄了十幾年那假如可以這樣子每一個立法委員都去搞一條重大建設發展條例那我也請我的助理開始在寫高雄重大建設發展條例"},{"start":431.469,"end":457.089,"text":"這個沒有預算我的預算大概是一兆我也要懇請國發會重大建設發展條例就不是只有交通囉這整個高雄的所有的經貿發展喔這個當然我就要懇請國發會來予以大力支持喔一兆一兆就好了我都不貪心給我們高雄過去重北輕南這一次請國發會能夠比照"},{"start":458.29,"end":467.978,"text":"這樣的特別條例的運作模式給高雄一個重大起飛的機會給我們一兆就好了好不好好謝謝好謝謝"}]}}}}