{"id":150692,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150692","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c048bae04050ea08df25a2f6254cf3c732f8ba9b0039caa7a63696169a3617e29d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:23:57 - 09:36:28","影片長度":"00:12:31","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":751,"end_time":"2024-04-01T09:36:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T09:23:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":366,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時24分）有請薛部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長好。我是2月1號上任的新科立委，食安問題現在就已經是第三期，這件事情讓民眾感到焦慮，還有資訊也非常混亂，所以想就教於部長，因為我第一次上臺質詢就是問食安問題，請問一下，上次我有建議針對資訊這麼混亂一事，是不是可以在你的平臺上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結，跟食品安全的相關闢謠網頁的連結，不知道這個後來有做了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：有，我們現在是兩個部分，一個是CDC的網站，每天新增的個案數，這些都有，另外一個是在食藥署的網站。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝，因為現在大家的擔憂度真的非常高。上次我也提過要進行源頭管理，我們的食品安全衛生管理法第七條規定要自主管理，到底有多少業者可以做到？因為要自行花錢，把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。今周刊的報導指出，以蘇丹紅為例，2021年到2023年有廠商自主檢驗513次，總檢驗費用花掉156萬，在這個過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅，可是基於人情壓力，所以頂多就是拒絕那個廠商進貨到我這邊，因此政府如何期待它會針對有問題的？一個是有錢的，它自己為了自保，所以它送驗了，可是如果沒有錢的，甚至有意的話，那你用自主管理的方式，我不知道政府如何期待它會去通報哪些貨有問題。"],["薛部長瑞元：這是強制要通報的，如果它自主檢查發現有問題的話，不是私了，把東西退回給原來的廠商就好，它還要另外做通報。"],["林委員月琴：可是部長，它總共花掉156萬，到底誰這麼有財力？這是今周刊報導的。"],["薛部長瑞元：它已經檢查了，已經檢驗了，檢驗出來是有問題，這個就要通報，你說沒有財力，沒有做這個檢驗，這是另外一件事情。"],["林委員月琴：所以可不可以建議，現在的食品安全衛生檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法只針對個人來獎勵，可是如果有犯罪、有系統性的，有時候反而不是……因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的，是不是應該擴及到組織，獎勵企業樂於提報，這樣才可以有機會？"],["薛部長瑞元：業者如果是自己驗出來，不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來，有的話本來就應該通報，這個沒有通報還有處罰，另外一個是民眾的部分，民眾的部分我們有吹哨者條款，在食安法裡面也有，民眾自己能夠檢舉，如果成案的話還是有獎勵。"],["林委員月琴：最近的紅麴事件，小林製藥大概在1月15號就已經延燒一段時間，食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單，有很多東西事實上是熱銷的產品，本席想請問，在3月30號我們也看到衛福部有業者主動預防性下架的資訊，可是我在很多群組都看到，民眾也在問，像這個東西如果我家裡有的話，我到底要不要吃？還是一樣，資訊比較混亂。另外一個想問的是，如果廠商的一批貨品在紅麴事件發生前後上架的話，譬如說2月上架，3月1號發現這批貨有問題，通報下架之後，那2月份那批貨是不是所有產品都要下架？"],["薛部長瑞元：基本上，有使用到小林紅麴的原料製作的，在國內製作的，這些統統都要下架，那是預防性的下架。"],["林委員月琴：連之前的，就是說假設3月1號發現，可是往前2月份的部分？"],["薛部長瑞元：還是要下架。"],["林委員月琴：現在想問，網路、雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路，都確保安全性了嗎？都已經預防性下架？都做完了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個都有在查，不過，對民眾來講，你既然是知道這個情況，下架的意思就是說，你如果已經買了就不要吃了，至於是否要退貨？這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的……"],["林委員月琴：我現在看到很多像益生菌之類的，甚至有一些有名的，如果家裡有老人家，他不會上你的網站，他怎麼知道他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題？現在做了什麼事？"],["薛部長瑞元：這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話，他一定有他的訊息來源，不管是看電視還是他自己可以上網，但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的，買來孝順自己的父母親，這都能夠上網。"],["林委員月琴：可是我們現在看到里民的群組很多人都在問他到底可不可以吃？"],["薛部長瑞元：不可以，先不要吃。"],["林委員月琴：對，可是我的意思是有沒有透過里民的一些管道出去讓他們知道？畢竟現在LINE群組裡的里民是會看這些東西的。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道，再把這個訊息散布出去；也就是說，現在有這些的產品、可疑的產品的話，如果有在賣的就預防性下降，如果已經買回家了就不要吃，暫時不要吃。"],["林委員月琴：現在這些東西，我不知道衛福部有沒有跟消基會好好研議一下，去跟廠商爭取將退貨的條件降低，然後從寬處理、方便退貨？"],["薛部長瑞元：這都有在處理。"],["林委員月琴：可是我現在看到，剛剛報告裡面提到消保處目前只有12件申訴案，看起來案量非常非常的低，不知道有沒有一些特別的狀況，民眾根本都還不知道這些訊息，使得他們現在沒有去辦退貨？"],["薛部長瑞元：我是不是請消保處說明？"],["林委員月琴：好。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：委員好。跟委員報告一下，今天早上我出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統，現在案子應該是18件，這是今天早上的。"],["林委員月琴：可是18件也很低。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：對，跟委員報告一下，通常民眾的訊息會先去釐清瞭解事實，然後再透過一些管道去瞭解有沒有申訴系統。所以我們會透過各地消保官去告訴民眾，可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統反映。"],["林委員月琴：因為我們很擔心家裡已經買到的人還持續在用，然後有些買到的人，現在知道退貨，但剛剛講了也才18件，可是擔心家裡的人還在使用的這件事情。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是，我們會請各地消保官協助幫忙，謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：麻煩會後再提供你們相關的作法和數據。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是，謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：好。所以除了主動通報以外，想問一下在這220件以外，如果有使用到問題紅麴的商品沒有自動下架的話，衛福部要發動預防性下架的時機，是不是就可以確保所有的東西都下架？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前的話就是已經在發動，包括我們已經知道從日本原料進來，往下有52家廠商所製造出來的成品，但是有一些是它製造出來不是直接就販售的成品，而是它再製造的次級成分提供給其他廠商再去做成品出來，所以這樣加起來大概226種產品，這些相關訊息我們是都有，這些通通要下架。"],["林委員月琴：關於寶林事件，我覺得現在訊息非常混亂，連所有小吃部都受到一些影響，我不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相，否則的話，一個是營運者，一個是民眾，他們都會有很大的恐慌。本次案件於3月24號接獲通報，在26號回溯，3月19號、3月21號民眾有出現一些病徵，從時序來看的話，到3月26號第一間餐廳才被停，可是一直都有民眾去用餐，這一個禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中，想問的是，應該要說清楚臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報，但直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：事實上，24號食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報，臺北市是有開始做食安的稽查，但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把它跟這個死亡的原因連在一起，所以認知上面並沒有特別覺得……雖然有兩個，一個是輕症，另外一個是死亡，但是那個死亡的原因是否跟這一個食物中毒是有關，所以到了現場主要是做routine食物中毒的一些採檢而已。到了3月26號我們就發現通報的醫院越來越多，顯然這個事件就不單純，而且通報的病症也是越來越嚴重，所以3月26我們就再度找了食藥署、CDC，再加上臺北市，我們再進去稽查。"],["林委員月琴：部長，最後一個問題就是沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸？這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題？媒體就一直很關心為什麼只有彰基有標準品？這個病毒過去沒有在臺灣出現過嗎？這個說明什麼樣的狀況？"],["薛部長瑞元：的確米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過，彰基之所以有這個標準品，是當時105年的時候他們要建置實驗室，建置這個實驗室，他們希望做的是比較先進一點，所以大概可以查得到的，他們就儘量去蒐集，結果105年這個標準品一直都沒有用，他們自己也差點忘了，最近我們把這個事情報出來之後，經由當時進口的廠商才知道好像105年彰基有進口這個，然後我們再去聯繫他們，他們都還沒有開封。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請陳菁徽委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","劉建國","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","盧縣一","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","楊曜","羅智強","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","李坤城","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳瑩","李彥秀","王鴻薇","徐富癸","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有\n限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150692","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150692","tool":"pyannote","id":"150692-pyannote"},"job_id":"olGqI3UzhDkPhQyL","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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726.356, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 726.356, \"end\": 726.516, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 726.516, \"end\": 726.536, \"score\": 0.371}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 727.682, \"end\": 728.062, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 728.062, \"end\": 728.082, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,216 --> 00:00:39,259\n有請學部長部長請二位好部長好我2月1號我是新科立委上任食安問題現在就已經是第三期上這件事情讓民眾大家都是感到焦慮那還有資訊非常混亂所以想就教育部長因為第一次我上台質詢就是問食安問題\n\n2\n00:00:40,253 --> 00:00:51,753\n那想問一下上次我有建議說針對於是不是資訊這麼混亂的話是不是可以加我們的在你的平台上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結跟\n\n3\n00:00:52,858 --> 00:00:55,179\n上次我也提過要源頭管理可是從我們的食品安全衛生管理法第7條講要自主管理\n\n4\n00:01:20,031 --> 00:01:31,945\n那到底多少業者可以做到?因為自行把花錢,然後呢,把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。所以,金周刊他報導說,以蘇丹紅為例,2021年到2023年,有廠商他自主檢驗513次。\n\n5\n00:01:40,232 --> 00:02:06,593\n總減經費花掉156萬過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅可是基於人情壓力所以呢頂多就是我拒絕那個廠商進到我這邊進貨所以政府如何期待他會針對有問題的一個是有錢的他好啦他自己為了自保他驗了可是如果沒有錢的甚至有意要那你用自主管理所以我不知道這個政府如何期待他會去通報哪些貨有問題\n\n6\n00:02:08,475 --> 00:02:34,700\n這是強制要通報的如果他自主檢查發現有問題的話不是私了把東西退回給原來的廠商就好他還要另外要做通報可是部長他總共花掉156萬到底有誰有這麼有的有財力齁就是因為這是他已經檢查了嘛他已經檢驗嘛檢驗出來是有問題這個就要通報那你說沒有財力沒有做這個檢查那這是另外一件事情\n\n7\n00:02:37,185 --> 00:02:53,422\n所以可不可以建議是現在食品安全衛生檢查的那個處理跟獎勵辦法只針對個人獎勵可是如果有犯罪有系統性的有時候反而不是因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的是不是應該擴及到組織獎勵企業熱於提報這才會是可以有機會\n\n8\n00:03:01,484 --> 00:03:27,338\n業者如果說是自己驗出來不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來有的話本來就應該通報這個沒有通報還有處罰的那另外一個是那民眾的部分民眾的部分我們有吹哨者的條款在食安法裡面也有那民眾如果自己能夠有這種檢舉的話那如果呈案的話還是有獎勵的\n\n9\n00:03:30,621 --> 00:03:49,435\n這個是最近我們的紅麴事件小林製藥大概1月15號就已經延燒一段時間食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單有很多東西事實上是熱銷的一些產品\n\n10\n00:03:50,219 --> 00:04:12,918\n那就想問這邊在很快在3月30號我們也看到了就是我們的衛福部有這個業者的主動預防就是預防性下架的資訊可是我在很多群組都看到民眾也在問就是說到底像這個東西我家裡有的話\n\n11\n00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:38,400\n我到底要不要吃還是一樣資訊比較混亂另外一個想問的是如果廠商在一批貨品在問題我們的紅麴事件發生前後上架的話那這個2月比如上架3月這批貨有問題3月1號那2月份的要不要要在事前發生要通報下架是不是也要所有產品都要下架\n\n12\n00:04:39,843 --> 00:05:07,134\n基本上有使用到小林的紅麴的原料製作的在國內製作的那這些通通都要下架那是預防性的下架連前嗎?就是說它是尖點甲是3月1號可是往前2月份的話還是要下架還是要下架那現在想問網路雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路都確保安全性嗎?都已經預防性下架都做完了嗎?\n\n13\n00:05:08,892 --> 00:05:35,491\n這個都有在查不過對民眾來講的話你既然是知道這個那你下架就是意思就是你如果已經買了就不要吃了就不要吃了然後是否要退貨這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的專家我現在看很多什麼益生菌之類的甚至有一些有名的如果是家裡有老人家的他不會上你的網站他怎麼知道\n\n14\n00:05:36,055 --> 00:06:04,020\n他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題目前現在做了什麼事這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話他一定有他的訊息來源不管是看電視還是還是這一個他自己可以上網這個沒有但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的買來孝順自己的父母親可是我們現在看到李明的群組很多人都在問說他到底可不可以吃不可以\n\n15\n00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:25,350\n對,可是我的意思說有沒有有透過裡面的一些管道出去讓他們知道因為他們畢竟現在LINE裡面的群組裡面裡面事實上是會看這些東西的對,所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道再把這個訊息散佈出去也就是說現在有這些的產品可疑的產品的話\n\n16\n00:06:26,641 --> 00:06:34,975\n如果有在賣的就下架,預防性下架,如果已經買就買回家了,那就不要吃,暫時就不要吃\n\n17\n00:06:37,033 --> 00:07:05,921\n現在這些東西我不知道衛福部有沒有跟蕭基會好好演繹一下去跟廠商爭取一些退貨的條件降低然後從寬處理來方便退貨可是我現在看到剛剛報告裡邊消保處這邊大概目前只有12件申訴案看起來案量非常非常的低不知道是不是有沒有特別的一些狀況民眾根本都還是不知道這些訊息是的他們現在沒有去做\n\n18\n00:07:06,380 --> 00:07:08,049\n我是請消保署\n\n19\n00:07:13,567 --> 00:07:42,642\n委員好跟委員報告一下我今天早上我們出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統現在這個案子應該是18件就是今天早上18件也很低那跟委員報告一下因為通常民眾的訊息會先他會先先去釐清了解事實然後再透過這個一些管道然後去了解我們申訴系統所以我們會透過這個各地的消保官去告訴民眾說可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統可以反映一點為什麼因為我們很擔心\n\n20\n00:07:43,302 --> 00:07:43,662\n主動通報以外想問一下在這225\n\n21\n00:08:09,522 --> 00:08:12,103\n目前的話就是已經在發動,包括說我們已經知道\n\n22\n00:08:30,253 --> 00:08:52,328\n從日本原料進來往下有52家的廠商他所製造出來的成品但是有一些是他製造出來不是直接就販售的成品而是他在製造的這種次級的成份的話再提供給其他廠商再去做出成品出來所以這樣加起來大概226種產品\n\n23\n00:08:55,330 --> 00:09:18,938\n那這些的訊息我們是都有,這些通通要下架。好,呃,寶林事件齁,我覺得現在訊息非常混亂,連那個所有的小吃部這些都受到一些影響了齁,所以我就不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相,否則的話,一些事上是\n\n24\n00:09:19,554 --> 00:09:43,784\n移運者一個事實上是民眾他都會有很大的恐慌那本次案件在3月24號接獲通報然後在26號回溯3月19、3月21民眾有出現一些病徵從時序來看的話到3月26第一間餐廳才被停那可是都是一直都有民眾去用餐這一禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中那想問的是\n\n25\n00:09:49,861 --> 00:10:15,950\n能不能應該說清楚像衛福部臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題事實上24號那食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報那臺北市他是有開始做食安的稽查\n\n26\n00:10:17,029 --> 00:10:43,230\n但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把他跟這個死亡的原因連在一起所以認知上面並沒有特別是覺得說這一個這個個案雖然有兩個一個是輕症另外一個是死亡但是這兩個那個死亡的原因是否跟這個食物中毒是有關所以他到了現場的話主要是就是說做\n\n27\n00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:46,851\n蘇丹紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為。\n\n28\n00:11:14,823 --> 00:11:30,977\n最後一個問題沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題媒體就一直很關心說那為什麼只有章雞有標準品這個病毒過去沒有在\n\n29\n00:11:31,853 --> 00:11:51,186\n臺灣出現過嗎?那這個是說明什麼樣的狀況?的確這個米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過那張熙之所以有這個標準品是當時105年的時候他們要建設實驗室那建設這個實驗室他們希望說做的是比較先進一點所以\n\n30\n00:11:52,947 --> 00:12:06,536\n大概可以查得到的那在就是說就盡量他們去收集結果這個105年這一個標準品一直都沒有用\n\n31\n00:12:07,682 --> 00:12:08,082\n好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11216\t39259\t有請學部長部長請二位好部長好我2月1號我是新科立委上任食安問題現在就已經是第三期上這件事情讓民眾大家都是感到焦慮那還有資訊非常混亂所以想就教育部長因為第一次我上台質詢就是問食安問題\n40253\t51753\t那想問一下上次我有建議說針對於是不是資訊這麼混亂的話是不是可以加我們的在你的平台上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結跟\n52858\t55179\t上次我也提過要源頭管理可是從我們的食品安全衛生管理法第7條講要自主管理\n80031\t91945\t那到底多少業者可以做到?因為自行把花錢,然後呢,把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。所以,金周刊他報導說,以蘇丹紅為例,2021年到2023年,有廠商他自主檢驗513次。\n100232\t126593\t總減經費花掉156萬過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅可是基於人情壓力所以呢頂多就是我拒絕那個廠商進到我這邊進貨所以政府如何期待他會針對有問題的一個是有錢的他好啦他自己為了自保他驗了可是如果沒有錢的甚至有意要那你用自主管理所以我不知道這個政府如何期待他會去通報哪些貨有問題\n128475\t154700\t這是強制要通報的如果他自主檢查發現有問題的話不是私了把東西退回給原來的廠商就好他還要另外要做通報可是部長他總共花掉156萬到底有誰有這麼有的有財力齁就是因為這是他已經檢查了嘛他已經檢驗嘛檢驗出來是有問題這個就要通報那你說沒有財力沒有做這個檢查那這是另外一件事情\n157185\t173422\t所以可不可以建議是現在食品安全衛生檢查的那個處理跟獎勵辦法只針對個人獎勵可是如果有犯罪有系統性的有時候反而不是因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的是不是應該擴及到組織獎勵企業熱於提報這才會是可以有機會\n181484\t207338\t業者如果說是自己驗出來不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來有的話本來就應該通報這個沒有通報還有處罰的那另外一個是那民眾的部分民眾的部分我們有吹哨者的條款在食安法裡面也有那民眾如果自己能夠有這種檢舉的話那如果呈案的話還是有獎勵的\n210621\t229435\t這個是最近我們的紅麴事件小林製藥大概1月15號就已經延燒一段時間食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單有很多東西事實上是熱銷的一些產品\n230219\t252918\t那就想問這邊在很快在3月30號我們也看到了就是我們的衛福部有這個業者的主動預防就是預防性下架的資訊可是我在很多群組都看到民眾也在問就是說到底像這個東西我家裡有的話\n254720\t278400\t我到底要不要吃還是一樣資訊比較混亂另外一個想問的是如果廠商在一批貨品在問題我們的紅麴事件發生前後上架的話那這個2月比如上架3月這批貨有問題3月1號那2月份的要不要要在事前發生要通報下架是不是也要所有產品都要下架\n279843\t307134\t基本上有使用到小林的紅麴的原料製作的在國內製作的那這些通通都要下架那是預防性的下架連前嗎?就是說它是尖點甲是3月1號可是往前2月份的話還是要下架還是要下架那現在想問網路雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路都確保安全性嗎?都已經預防性下架都做完了嗎?\n308892\t335491\t這個都有在查不過對民眾來講的話你既然是知道這個那你下架就是意思就是你如果已經買了就不要吃了就不要吃了然後是否要退貨這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的專家我現在看很多什麼益生菌之類的甚至有一些有名的如果是家裡有老人家的他不會上你的網站他怎麼知道\n336055\t364020\t他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題目前現在做了什麼事這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話他一定有他的訊息來源不管是看電視還是還是這一個他自己可以上網這個沒有但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的買來孝順自己的父母親可是我們現在看到李明的群組很多人都在問說他到底可不可以吃不可以\n364900\t385350\t對,可是我的意思說有沒有有透過裡面的一些管道出去讓他們知道因為他們畢竟現在LINE裡面的群組裡面裡面事實上是會看這些東西的對,所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道再把這個訊息散佈出去也就是說現在有這些的產品可疑的產品的話\n386641\t394975\t如果有在賣的就下架,預防性下架,如果已經買就買回家了,那就不要吃,暫時就不要吃\n397033\t425921\t現在這些東西我不知道衛福部有沒有跟蕭基會好好演繹一下去跟廠商爭取一些退貨的條件降低然後從寬處理來方便退貨可是我現在看到剛剛報告裡邊消保處這邊大概目前只有12件申訴案看起來案量非常非常的低不知道是不是有沒有特別的一些狀況民眾根本都還是不知道這些訊息是的他們現在沒有去做\n426380\t428049\t我是請消保署\n433567\t462642\t委員好跟委員報告一下我今天早上我們出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統現在這個案子應該是18件就是今天早上18件也很低那跟委員報告一下因為通常民眾的訊息會先他會先先去釐清了解事實然後再透過這個一些管道然後去了解我們申訴系統所以我們會透過這個各地的消保官去告訴民眾說可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統可以反映一點為什麼因為我們很擔心\n463302\t463662\t主動通報以外想問一下在這225\n489522\t492103\t目前的話就是已經在發動,包括說我們已經知道\n510253\t532328\t從日本原料進來往下有52家的廠商他所製造出來的成品但是有一些是他製造出來不是直接就販售的成品而是他在製造的這種次級的成份的話再提供給其他廠商再去做出成品出來所以這樣加起來大概226種產品\n535330\t558938\t那這些的訊息我們是都有,這些通通要下架。好,呃,寶林事件齁,我覺得現在訊息非常混亂,連那個所有的小吃部這些都受到一些影響了齁,所以我就不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相,否則的話,一些事上是\n559554\t583784\t移運者一個事實上是民眾他都會有很大的恐慌那本次案件在3月24號接獲通報然後在26號回溯3月19、3月21民眾有出現一些病徵從時序來看的話到3月26第一間餐廳才被停那可是都是一直都有民眾去用餐這一禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中那想問的是\n589861\t615950\t能不能應該說清楚像衛福部臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題事實上24號那食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報那臺北市他是有開始做食安的稽查\n617029\t643230\t但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把他跟這個死亡的原因連在一起所以認知上面並沒有特別是覺得說這一個這個個案雖然有兩個一個是輕症另外一個是死亡但是這兩個那個死亡的原因是否跟這個食物中毒是有關所以他到了現場的話主要是就是說做\n643490\t646851\t蘇丹紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為。\n674823\t690977\t最後一個問題沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題媒體就一直很關心說那為什麼只有章雞有標準品這個病毒過去沒有在\n691853\t711186\t臺灣出現過嗎?那這個是說明什麼樣的狀況?的確這個米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過那張熙之所以有這個標準品是當時105年的時候他們要建設實驗室那建設這個實驗室他們希望說做的是比較先進一點所以\n712947\t726536\t大概可以查得到的那在就是說就盡量他們去收集結果這個105年這一個標準品一直都沒有用\n727682\t728082\t好 謝謝部長 謝謝\n","txt":"有請學部長部長請二位好部長好我2月1號我是新科立委上任食安問題現在就已經是第三期上這件事情讓民眾大家都是感到焦慮那還有資訊非常混亂所以想就教育部長因為第一次我上台質詢就是問食安問題\n那想問一下上次我有建議說針對於是不是資訊這麼混亂的話是不是可以加我們的在你的平台上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結跟\n上次我也提過要源頭管理可是從我們的食品安全衛生管理法第7條講要自主管理\n那到底多少業者可以做到?因為自行把花錢,然後呢,把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。所以,金周刊他報導說,以蘇丹紅為例,2021年到2023年,有廠商他自主檢驗513次。\n總減經費花掉156萬過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅可是基於人情壓力所以呢頂多就是我拒絕那個廠商進到我這邊進貨所以政府如何期待他會針對有問題的一個是有錢的他好啦他自己為了自保他驗了可是如果沒有錢的甚至有意要那你用自主管理所以我不知道這個政府如何期待他會去通報哪些貨有問題\n這是強制要通報的如果他自主檢查發現有問題的話不是私了把東西退回給原來的廠商就好他還要另外要做通報可是部長他總共花掉156萬到底有誰有這麼有的有財力齁就是因為這是他已經檢查了嘛他已經檢驗嘛檢驗出來是有問題這個就要通報那你說沒有財力沒有做這個檢查那這是另外一件事情\n所以可不可以建議是現在食品安全衛生檢查的那個處理跟獎勵辦法只針對個人獎勵可是如果有犯罪有系統性的有時候反而不是因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的是不是應該擴及到組織獎勵企業熱於提報這才會是可以有機會\n業者如果說是自己驗出來不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來有的話本來就應該通報這個沒有通報還有處罰的那另外一個是那民眾的部分民眾的部分我們有吹哨者的條款在食安法裡面也有那民眾如果自己能夠有這種檢舉的話那如果呈案的話還是有獎勵的\n這個是最近我們的紅麴事件小林製藥大概1月15號就已經延燒一段時間食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單有很多東西事實上是熱銷的一些產品\n那就想問這邊在很快在3月30號我們也看到了就是我們的衛福部有這個業者的主動預防就是預防性下架的資訊可是我在很多群組都看到民眾也在問就是說到底像這個東西我家裡有的話\n我到底要不要吃還是一樣資訊比較混亂另外一個想問的是如果廠商在一批貨品在問題我們的紅麴事件發生前後上架的話那這個2月比如上架3月這批貨有問題3月1號那2月份的要不要要在事前發生要通報下架是不是也要所有產品都要下架\n基本上有使用到小林的紅麴的原料製作的在國內製作的那這些通通都要下架那是預防性的下架連前嗎?就是說它是尖點甲是3月1號可是往前2月份的話還是要下架還是要下架那現在想問網路雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路都確保安全性嗎?都已經預防性下架都做完了嗎?\n這個都有在查不過對民眾來講的話你既然是知道這個那你下架就是意思就是你如果已經買了就不要吃了就不要吃了然後是否要退貨這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的專家我現在看很多什麼益生菌之類的甚至有一些有名的如果是家裡有老人家的他不會上你的網站他怎麼知道\n他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題目前現在做了什麼事這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話他一定有他的訊息來源不管是看電視還是還是這一個他自己可以上網這個沒有但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的買來孝順自己的父母親可是我們現在看到李明的群組很多人都在問說他到底可不可以吃不可以\n對,可是我的意思說有沒有有透過裡面的一些管道出去讓他們知道因為他們畢竟現在LINE裡面的群組裡面裡面事實上是會看這些東西的對,所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道再把這個訊息散佈出去也就是說現在有這些的產品可疑的產品的話\n如果有在賣的就下架,預防性下架,如果已經買就買回家了,那就不要吃,暫時就不要吃\n現在這些東西我不知道衛福部有沒有跟蕭基會好好演繹一下去跟廠商爭取一些退貨的條件降低然後從寬處理來方便退貨可是我現在看到剛剛報告裡邊消保處這邊大概目前只有12件申訴案看起來案量非常非常的低不知道是不是有沒有特別的一些狀況民眾根本都還是不知道這些訊息是的他們現在沒有去做\n我是請消保署\n委員好跟委員報告一下我今天早上我們出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統現在這個案子應該是18件就是今天早上18件也很低那跟委員報告一下因為通常民眾的訊息會先他會先先去釐清了解事實然後再透過這個一些管道然後去了解我們申訴系統所以我們會透過這個各地的消保官去告訴民眾說可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統可以反映一點為什麼因為我們很擔心\n主動通報以外想問一下在這225\n目前的話就是已經在發動,包括說我們已經知道\n從日本原料進來往下有52家的廠商他所製造出來的成品但是有一些是他製造出來不是直接就販售的成品而是他在製造的這種次級的成份的話再提供給其他廠商再去做出成品出來所以這樣加起來大概226種產品\n那這些的訊息我們是都有,這些通通要下架。好,呃,寶林事件齁,我覺得現在訊息非常混亂,連那個所有的小吃部這些都受到一些影響了齁,所以我就不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相,否則的話,一些事上是\n移運者一個事實上是民眾他都會有很大的恐慌那本次案件在3月24號接獲通報然後在26號回溯3月19、3月21民眾有出現一些病徵從時序來看的話到3月26第一間餐廳才被停那可是都是一直都有民眾去用餐這一禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中那想問的是\n能不能應該說清楚像衛福部臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題事實上24號那食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報那臺北市他是有開始做食安的稽查\n但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把他跟這個死亡的原因連在一起所以認知上面並沒有特別是覺得說這一個這個個案雖然有兩個一個是輕症另外一個是死亡但是這兩個那個死亡的原因是否跟這個食物中毒是有關所以他到了現場的話主要是就是說做\n蘇丹紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為。\n最後一個問題沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題媒體就一直很關心說那為什麼只有章雞有標準品這個病毒過去沒有在\n臺灣出現過嗎?那這個是說明什麼樣的狀況?的確這個米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過那張熙之所以有這個標準品是當時105年的時候他們要建設實驗室那建設這個實驗室他們希望說做的是比較先進一點所以\n大概可以查得到的那在就是說就盡量他們去收集結果這個105年這一個標準品一直都沒有用\n好 謝謝部長 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.216 --> 00:39.259\n有請學部長部長請二位好部長好我2月1號我是新科立委上任食安問題現在就已經是第三期上這件事情讓民眾大家都是感到焦慮那還有資訊非常混亂所以想就教育部長因為第一次我上台質詢就是問食安問題\n\n00:40.253 --> 00:51.753\n那想問一下上次我有建議說針對於是不是資訊這麼混亂的話是不是可以加我們的在你的平台上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結跟\n\n00:52.858 --> 00:55.179\n上次我也提過要源頭管理可是從我們的食品安全衛生管理法第7條講要自主管理\n\n01:20.031 --> 01:31.945\n那到底多少業者可以做到?因為自行把花錢,然後呢,把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。所以,金周刊他報導說,以蘇丹紅為例,2021年到2023年,有廠商他自主檢驗513次。\n\n01:40.232 --> 02:06.593\n總減經費花掉156萬過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅可是基於人情壓力所以呢頂多就是我拒絕那個廠商進到我這邊進貨所以政府如何期待他會針對有問題的一個是有錢的他好啦他自己為了自保他驗了可是如果沒有錢的甚至有意要那你用自主管理所以我不知道這個政府如何期待他會去通報哪些貨有問題\n\n02:08.475 --> 02:34.700\n這是強制要通報的如果他自主檢查發現有問題的話不是私了把東西退回給原來的廠商就好他還要另外要做通報可是部長他總共花掉156萬到底有誰有這麼有的有財力齁就是因為這是他已經檢查了嘛他已經檢驗嘛檢驗出來是有問題這個就要通報那你說沒有財力沒有做這個檢查那這是另外一件事情\n\n02:37.185 --> 02:53.422\n所以可不可以建議是現在食品安全衛生檢查的那個處理跟獎勵辦法只針對個人獎勵可是如果有犯罪有系統性的有時候反而不是因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的是不是應該擴及到組織獎勵企業熱於提報這才會是可以有機會\n\n03:01.484 --> 03:27.338\n業者如果說是自己驗出來不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來有的話本來就應該通報這個沒有通報還有處罰的那另外一個是那民眾的部分民眾的部分我們有吹哨者的條款在食安法裡面也有那民眾如果自己能夠有這種檢舉的話那如果呈案的話還是有獎勵的\n\n03:30.621 --> 03:49.435\n這個是最近我們的紅麴事件小林製藥大概1月15號就已經延燒一段時間食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單有很多東西事實上是熱銷的一些產品\n\n03:50.219 --> 04:12.918\n那就想問這邊在很快在3月30號我們也看到了就是我們的衛福部有這個業者的主動預防就是預防性下架的資訊可是我在很多群組都看到民眾也在問就是說到底像這個東西我家裡有的話\n\n04:14.720 --> 04:38.400\n我到底要不要吃還是一樣資訊比較混亂另外一個想問的是如果廠商在一批貨品在問題我們的紅麴事件發生前後上架的話那這個2月比如上架3月這批貨有問題3月1號那2月份的要不要要在事前發生要通報下架是不是也要所有產品都要下架\n\n04:39.843 --> 05:07.134\n基本上有使用到小林的紅麴的原料製作的在國內製作的那這些通通都要下架那是預防性的下架連前嗎?就是說它是尖點甲是3月1號可是往前2月份的話還是要下架還是要下架那現在想問網路雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路都確保安全性嗎?都已經預防性下架都做完了嗎?\n\n05:08.892 --> 05:35.491\n這個都有在查不過對民眾來講的話你既然是知道這個那你下架就是意思就是你如果已經買了就不要吃了就不要吃了然後是否要退貨這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的專家我現在看很多什麼益生菌之類的甚至有一些有名的如果是家裡有老人家的他不會上你的網站他怎麼知道\n\n05:36.055 --> 06:04.020\n他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題目前現在做了什麼事這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話他一定有他的訊息來源不管是看電視還是還是這一個他自己可以上網這個沒有但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的買來孝順自己的父母親可是我們現在看到李明的群組很多人都在問說他到底可不可以吃不可以\n\n06:04.900 --> 06:25.350\n對,可是我的意思說有沒有有透過裡面的一些管道出去讓他們知道因為他們畢竟現在LINE裡面的群組裡面裡面事實上是會看這些東西的對,所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道再把這個訊息散佈出去也就是說現在有這些的產品可疑的產品的話\n\n06:26.641 --> 06:34.975\n如果有在賣的就下架,預防性下架,如果已經買就買回家了,那就不要吃,暫時就不要吃\n\n06:37.033 --> 07:05.921\n現在這些東西我不知道衛福部有沒有跟蕭基會好好演繹一下去跟廠商爭取一些退貨的條件降低然後從寬處理來方便退貨可是我現在看到剛剛報告裡邊消保處這邊大概目前只有12件申訴案看起來案量非常非常的低不知道是不是有沒有特別的一些狀況民眾根本都還是不知道這些訊息是的他們現在沒有去做\n\n07:06.380 --> 07:08.049\n我是請消保署\n\n07:13.567 --> 07:42.642\n委員好跟委員報告一下我今天早上我們出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統現在這個案子應該是18件就是今天早上18件也很低那跟委員報告一下因為通常民眾的訊息會先他會先先去釐清了解事實然後再透過這個一些管道然後去了解我們申訴系統所以我們會透過這個各地的消保官去告訴民眾說可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統可以反映一點為什麼因為我們很擔心\n\n07:43.302 --> 07:43.662\n主動通報以外想問一下在這225\n\n08:09.522 --> 08:12.103\n目前的話就是已經在發動,包括說我們已經知道\n\n08:30.253 --> 08:52.328\n從日本原料進來往下有52家的廠商他所製造出來的成品但是有一些是他製造出來不是直接就販售的成品而是他在製造的這種次級的成份的話再提供給其他廠商再去做出成品出來所以這樣加起來大概226種產品\n\n08:55.330 --> 09:18.938\n那這些的訊息我們是都有,這些通通要下架。好,呃,寶林事件齁,我覺得現在訊息非常混亂,連那個所有的小吃部這些都受到一些影響了齁,所以我就不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相,否則的話,一些事上是\n\n09:19.554 --> 09:43.784\n移運者一個事實上是民眾他都會有很大的恐慌那本次案件在3月24號接獲通報然後在26號回溯3月19、3月21民眾有出現一些病徵從時序來看的話到3月26第一間餐廳才被停那可是都是一直都有民眾去用餐這一禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中那想問的是\n\n09:49.861 --> 10:15.950\n能不能應該說清楚像衛福部臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題事實上24號那食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報那臺北市他是有開始做食安的稽查\n\n10:17.029 --> 10:43.230\n但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把他跟這個死亡的原因連在一起所以認知上面並沒有特別是覺得說這一個這個個案雖然有兩個一個是輕症另外一個是死亡但是這兩個那個死亡的原因是否跟這個食物中毒是有關所以他到了現場的話主要是就是說做\n\n10:43.490 --> 10:46.851\n蘇丹紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為。\n\n11:14.823 --> 11:30.977\n最後一個問題沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題媒體就一直很關心說那為什麼只有章雞有標準品這個病毒過去沒有在\n\n11:31.853 --> 11:51.186\n臺灣出現過嗎?那這個是說明什麼樣的狀況?的確這個米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過那張熙之所以有這個標準品是當時105年的時候他們要建設實驗室那建設這個實驗室他們希望說做的是比較先進一點所以\n\n11:52.947 --> 12:06.536\n大概可以查得到的那在就是說就盡量他們去收集結果這個105年這一個標準品一直都沒有用\n\n12:07.682 --> 12:08.082\n好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.216,"end":39.259,"text":"有請學部長部長請二位好部長好我2月1號我是新科立委上任食安問題現在就已經是第三期上這件事情讓民眾大家都是感到焦慮那還有資訊非常混亂所以想就教育部長因為第一次我上台質詢就是問食安問題"},{"start":40.253,"end":51.753,"text":"那想問一下上次我有建議說針對於是不是資訊這麼混亂的話是不是可以加我們的在你的平台上增加食安安全的即時新聞的連結跟"},{"start":52.858,"end":55.179,"text":"上次我也提過要源頭管理可是從我們的食品安全衛生管理法第7條講要自主管理"},{"start":80.031,"end":91.945,"text":"那到底多少業者可以做到?因為自行把花錢,然後呢,把採購進來的原物料送去化驗。所以,金周刊他報導說,以蘇丹紅為例,2021年到2023年,有廠商他自主檢驗513次。"},{"start":100.232,"end":126.593,"text":"總減經費花掉156萬過程當中曾經驗出有問題的蘇丹紅可是基於人情壓力所以呢頂多就是我拒絕那個廠商進到我這邊進貨所以政府如何期待他會針對有問題的一個是有錢的他好啦他自己為了自保他驗了可是如果沒有錢的甚至有意要那你用自主管理所以我不知道這個政府如何期待他會去通報哪些貨有問題"},{"start":128.475,"end":154.7,"text":"這是強制要通報的如果他自主檢查發現有問題的話不是私了把東西退回給原來的廠商就好他還要另外要做通報可是部長他總共花掉156萬到底有誰有這麼有的有財力齁就是因為這是他已經檢查了嘛他已經檢驗嘛檢驗出來是有問題這個就要通報那你說沒有財力沒有做這個檢查那這是另外一件事情"},{"start":157.185,"end":173.422,"text":"所以可不可以建議是現在食品安全衛生檢查的那個處理跟獎勵辦法只針對個人獎勵可是如果有犯罪有系統性的有時候反而不是因為一些化學性的危害絕不是一般消費者有能力發現的是不是應該擴及到組織獎勵企業熱於提報這才會是可以有機會"},{"start":181.484,"end":207.338,"text":"業者如果說是自己驗出來不管用什麼樣的方法把它驗出來有的話本來就應該通報這個沒有通報還有處罰的那另外一個是那民眾的部分民眾的部分我們有吹哨者的條款在食安法裡面也有那民眾如果自己能夠有這種檢舉的話那如果呈案的話還是有獎勵的"},{"start":210.621,"end":229.435,"text":"這個是最近我們的紅麴事件小林製藥大概1月15號就已經延燒一段時間食藥署是到3月30號公告225件要下架的名單有很多東西事實上是熱銷的一些產品"},{"start":230.219,"end":252.918,"text":"那就想問這邊在很快在3月30號我們也看到了就是我們的衛福部有這個業者的主動預防就是預防性下架的資訊可是我在很多群組都看到民眾也在問就是說到底像這個東西我家裡有的話"},{"start":254.72,"end":278.4,"text":"我到底要不要吃還是一樣資訊比較混亂另外一個想問的是如果廠商在一批貨品在問題我們的紅麴事件發生前後上架的話那這個2月比如上架3月這批貨有問題3月1號那2月份的要不要要在事前發生要通報下架是不是也要所有產品都要下架"},{"start":279.843,"end":307.134,"text":"基本上有使用到小林的紅麴的原料製作的在國內製作的那這些通通都要下架那是預防性的下架連前嗎?就是說它是尖點甲是3月1號可是往前2月份的話還是要下架還是要下架那現在想問網路雜貨店這些廠商不一定都直接掌握通路都確保安全性嗎?都已經預防性下架都做完了嗎?"},{"start":308.892,"end":335.491,"text":"這個都有在查不過對民眾來講的話你既然是知道這個那你下架就是意思就是你如果已經買了就不要吃了就不要吃了然後是否要退貨這個就要看每一家廠商有退貨的專家我現在看很多什麼益生菌之類的甚至有一些有名的如果是家裡有老人家的他不會上你的網站他怎麼知道"},{"start":336.055,"end":364.02,"text":"他正在服用的這些保養品可能有問題目前現在做了什麼事這種東西如果說是老人家自己去買的話他一定有他的訊息來源不管是看電視還是還是這一個他自己可以上網這個沒有但是也有很多是家屬幫忙去看的買來孝順自己的父母親可是我們現在看到李明的群組很多人都在問說他到底可不可以吃不可以"},{"start":364.9,"end":385.35,"text":"對,可是我的意思說有沒有有透過裡面的一些管道出去讓他們知道因為他們畢竟現在LINE裡面的群組裡面裡面事實上是會看這些東西的對,所以這個部分我們會透過多元的管道再把這個訊息散佈出去也就是說現在有這些的產品可疑的產品的話"},{"start":386.641,"end":394.975,"text":"如果有在賣的就下架,預防性下架,如果已經買就買回家了,那就不要吃,暫時就不要吃"},{"start":397.033,"end":425.921,"text":"現在這些東西我不知道衛福部有沒有跟蕭基會好好演繹一下去跟廠商爭取一些退貨的條件降低然後從寬處理來方便退貨可是我現在看到剛剛報告裡邊消保處這邊大概目前只有12件申訴案看起來案量非常非常的低不知道是不是有沒有特別的一些狀況民眾根本都還是不知道這些訊息是的他們現在沒有去做"},{"start":426.38,"end":428.049,"text":"我是請消保署"},{"start":433.567,"end":462.642,"text":"委員好跟委員報告一下我今天早上我們出門的時候又看了一下我們的申訴系統現在這個案子應該是18件就是今天早上18件也很低那跟委員報告一下因為通常民眾的訊息會先他會先先去釐清了解事實然後再透過這個一些管道然後去了解我們申訴系統所以我們會透過這個各地的消保官去告訴民眾說可以透過1950或者上我們的申訴系統可以反映一點為什麼因為我們很擔心"},{"start":463.302,"end":463.662,"text":"主動通報以外想問一下在這225"},{"start":489.522,"end":492.103,"text":"目前的話就是已經在發動,包括說我們已經知道"},{"start":510.253,"end":532.328,"text":"從日本原料進來往下有52家的廠商他所製造出來的成品但是有一些是他製造出來不是直接就販售的成品而是他在製造的這種次級的成份的話再提供給其他廠商再去做出成品出來所以這樣加起來大概226種產品"},{"start":535.33,"end":558.938,"text":"那這些的訊息我們是都有,這些通通要下架。好,呃,寶林事件齁,我覺得現在訊息非常混亂,連那個所有的小吃部這些都受到一些影響了齁,所以我就不知道衛福部對於地方跟中央是不是應該趕快釐清真相,否則的話,一些事上是"},{"start":559.554,"end":583.784,"text":"移運者一個事實上是民眾他都會有很大的恐慌那本次案件在3月24號接獲通報然後在26號回溯3月19、3月21民眾有出現一些病徵從時序來看的話到3月26第一間餐廳才被停那可是都是一直都有民眾去用餐這一禮拜的時間很多人是暴露在這種風險當中那想問的是"},{"start":589.861,"end":615.95,"text":"能不能應該說清楚像衛福部臺北市政府3月24號就接獲新北市通報直到3月27才對業者勒令停業的行政處分有沒有延遲的問題事實上24號那食藥署跟臺北市同時就接到新北市的通報那臺北市他是有開始做食安的稽查"},{"start":617.029,"end":643.23,"text":"但是因為當時可能同仁並沒有把他跟這個死亡的原因連在一起所以認知上面並沒有特別是覺得說這一個這個個案雖然有兩個一個是輕症另外一個是死亡但是這兩個那個死亡的原因是否跟這個食物中毒是有關所以他到了現場的話主要是就是說做"},{"start":643.49,"end":646.851,"text":"蘇丹紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為。"},{"start":674.823,"end":690.977,"text":"最後一個問題沒有標準品怎麼驗出米酵菌酸這次事件是不是就遇到這個問題媒體就一直很關心說那為什麼只有章雞有標準品這個病毒過去沒有在"},{"start":691.853,"end":711.186,"text":"臺灣出現過嗎?那這個是說明什麼樣的狀況?的確這個米酵菌酸是沒有在臺灣出現過那張熙之所以有這個標準品是當時105年的時候他們要建設實驗室那建設這個實驗室他們希望說做的是比較先進一點所以"},{"start":712.947,"end":726.536,"text":"大概可以查得到的那在就是說就盡量他們去收集結果這個105年這一個標準品一直都沒有用"},{"start":727.682,"end":728.082,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝"}]}}}}