{"id":150694,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150694","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0cbc1706a44aa3eec0ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a6239467a7c0b2b2005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"09:33:23 - 09:41:43","影片長度":"00:08:20","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":500,"end_time":"2024-04-01T09:41:43+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T09:33:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":123,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（9時33分）主席，我想請龔主委。"],["主席：我們再請龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：張委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：龔主委，今天審查環島高速鐵路建設特別條例，請問環島高速鐵路建設是否為國家重大交通建設？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是交通建設，沒有錯！"],["張委員嘉郡：本席查了一下國發會的網站，國發會的網站說重大公共建設計畫為國發會之主要業務，其中就包括了交通建設，那為什麼國發會的業務報告裡面說你們不能當主管機關，這是為什麼？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我們主要是審議機關啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：你仔細看上面，上面有沒有寫？臺幣10億以上，交通建設、環境資源……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：這就是審議啦！要送到我們這邊來審議！"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！審議啊！所以你為什麼要甩鍋呢？你也可以把它承接起來審議啊！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：但是審議機關是跟主政機關不一樣。"],["張委員嘉郡：如果這樣還不夠明確的話，前瞻基礎建設特別條例也明列主管機關是國發會，而且前瞻基礎建設就包括軌道建設，怎麼會業務報告說軌道建設裡面你們不宜當主管機關？但在前瞻基礎建設上面，你們又說可以當主管機關，為什麼？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：前瞻基礎建設它是一個綜合型的，是一個大的八項，但是單一的部分，軌道……"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊！軌道建設、數位建設、前瞻建設、綠能建設、水資源建設、人才培育建設，還有因應少子化建設你們都可以做……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，單一的軌道建設還是交通部……"],["張委員嘉郡：只有環島高速鐵路你們不能做，是嗎？是不是這樣子？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，單一的軌道建設主管機關還是交通部。"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊，為什麼你們可以當前瞻基礎建設的主管機關，現在環島高鐵就不行？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：前瞻基礎建設是一個上位……"],["張委員嘉郡：很明顯的，你們想當主管機關的時候，何止是軌道建設，食安、數位、水環境，你們都可以當主管機關啊！因為目前你們是幕僚單位、審議單位，也是最適合跨部會協調的審議單位，包括花東地區的鐵路雙軌電氣化計畫、台9線花東縱谷公路安全景觀大道計畫，還有蘇花公路安全提升計畫等等，都是國發會當主要的審議機關，如今卻說環島高鐵建設你們管不了，你們應該不是管不了，而是在推卸責任吧？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，我們可以當審議機關，跟剛剛您提到的台9線一樣，我們是審議機關，主政單位就是交通部。"],["張委員嘉郡：非常好，環島高鐵是攸關國家長遠計畫的重大建設，這不只是花東人民要回家安全的路，其實也是我們臺灣進步的一個象徵，而且它能夠產生的觀光動能是非常高的，你們最適合當協調審議的單位。今天的報告，你們說沒辦法做，我懷疑這已經不是專業考量了，這已經是一個政治考量，是不是有人告訴你，你就在上面寫：不要，你沒辦法做。是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：沒有，我同意您剛才提到的，由我們擔任審議機關之後，審議協調……"],["張委員嘉郡：我接下來請一下胡次長。胡次長，基本上我非常感謝你過去對於雲林高鐵站的付出跟努力，我非常敬重你是一個交通專業的人才，那我想要聽一聽你的專業意見，有關於這個環島高鐵，您贊不贊成？"],["胡次長湘麟：我想，整個環島高鐵能夠促成從宜蘭到屏東的銜接，以高速鐵路運轉的效率來講，確實可以縮短行車的時間。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你是支持的？"],["胡次長湘麟：我是支持，但是在整個推動的程序上，我覺得要一步一步處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：以您蓋過這麼多的高鐵站，可不可以請問您的意見，您建議這件事情的邏輯跟順序要怎麼做才有可能讓這件事情推行的更加快速？"],["胡次長湘麟：在我看到的條例裡面，尤其關鍵的第四條談到，希望10年之內能夠完成這整個計畫，以我過去的經驗來講，從可行性研究到綜合規劃，這部分看起來可能就需要7、8年的時間才能去做。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["胡次長湘麟：但是後面的這些處理，包括施工等等，我覺得10年是相對樂觀。"],["張委員嘉郡：不夠長，我想這是大家可以共同來討論的，因為我們希望的是結果，是要達到結果，而不是在書面上逞一時之快，我們也希望結果是最重要的。","我也想要另外再請問你，有關於雲林站，次長應該也知道雲林站現在的運載量是非常穩定的在成長，常常也是一票難求，是不是可以請次長支持雲林高鐵增班？"],["胡次長湘麟：大體上隨著運量的成長，我覺得就任何一個營運單位來講，應該是要正面去看待增班這件事……"],["張委員嘉郡：我就問你，你自己擔任交通部的官員這麼久，依你自己的感覺，雲林高鐵是不是應該增班？"],["胡次長湘麟：應該可以朝增班的方向來去安排，但是今天回頭去看，可能我們就得考慮整個列車組數的安排調度。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["胡次長湘麟：現在有34組列車，如果在可以允許調度這34組列車停靠雲林的情況之下，我覺得應該朝增班的方向來思考。"],["張委員嘉郡：我也想問次長，你們是不是也有計劃購買新的列車？"],["胡次長湘麟：有。"],["張委員嘉郡：今年會到幾台？"],["胡次長湘麟：台灣高鐵公司有在做採購，今年還沒有到，應該是在2024以後……"],["張委員嘉郡：據我所知，今年或明年，在今年年底應該會再到10台？"],["胡次長湘麟：這能不能允許我再確認一下？"],["張委員嘉郡：所以，假設這些列車到位，是不是就能夠進一步的儘速讓雲林高鐵增班？"],["胡次長湘麟：如果有這些列車到位，我覺得在雲林停靠增班這件事情應該是更有利。"],["張委員嘉郡：這件事情，本席也拜託次長全力的支持、協助推動，好嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：是，謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：另外，我最後再表達一下，雲林高鐵站當初沒有想像到運載量會這麼大，所以它外面的交通流量設計也是量能不足，現在常常造成交通阻塞，回堵大概1公里吧！這樣子旋轉造成很多民眾的不便。所以本席在這裡要求交通部是不是儘速做一個雲林高鐵站後站的規劃？"],["胡次長湘麟：後站應該是靠西邊，靠海邊的方向嘛！"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["胡次長湘麟：OK。"],["張委員嘉郡：這一點本席也拜託，我們整個高鐵後站，包括高鐵後站的進出口，也讓交通流量和整個高鐵站的運載量能夠擴大，這一點是不是可以拜託次長儘速的來做評估和規劃？"],["胡次長湘麟：我們儘速安排做評估。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝次長。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請張啓楷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 466.248, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 467.901, \"end\": 468.161, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 468.161, \"end\": 468.181, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,710 --> 00:00:24,990\n請張嘉郡委員請做選擇主席我想請公主委我們再請公主委公主委今天審查環島高速鐵路建設特別條例請問環島高速鐵路建設是否為國家重大交通建設\n\n2\n00:00:26,628 --> 00:00:43,776\n是交通建設沒有錯本席查了一下我們國發會的網站喔國發會的網站說重大公共建設計畫為國發會之主要業務其中就包括了交通建設那為什麼國發會的業務報告裡面說你們不能當主管機關這是為什麼\n\n3\n00:00:49,950 --> 00:01:01,817\n我們主要是審議機關啦那我在如果你仔細看上面有沒有寫台幣10億以上交通建設環境這就是審議啦是啊審議啊所以你為什麼要甩鍋呢你也可以把它承接起來審議啊如果這樣還不夠明確的話前瞻基礎建設特別條例也名列\n\n4\n00:01:13,664 --> 00:01:13,684\n委員長\n\n5\n00:01:31,886 --> 00:01:56,684\n前瞻基礎建設它是一個綜合型的,是一個大的八項裡面,但是單一的部分,軌道單一的……對啊,你看,軌道建設、數位建設、城鄉建設、綠燃建設、水資源建設、人才培育建設,還有因應草子化建設你都可以做,只有環島高速鐵路你不能做,是嗎?不是,單一的軌道建設主管機構還是交通部。\n\n6\n00:01:57,364 --> 00:02:02,766\n前瞻基礎建設說你可以當主管機關現在說環島高鐵你就不行很明顯的你們想當主管機關的時候何止是軌道建設、食安數位、水環境你們都可以當主管機關啊\n\n7\n00:02:18,339 --> 00:02:43,867\n因為目前你們是幕僚單位、審議單位也是最適合跨部會協調的審議單位包括說花東地區的鐵路雙軌電氣化計畫、臺九花東縱谷公路安全景觀大道計畫還有蘇花公路安全提升計畫等等\n\n8\n00:02:44,927 --> 00:03:03,255\n都是國發會當主要的審議機關如今卻說環島高鐵建設你們管不了你是不是你們應該不是管不了你是在推卸責任吧不是我們可以當審議機關跟剛剛您提到的那個台九線那個一樣我們是審議機關那主政單位就是交通部\n\n9\n00:03:04,346 --> 00:03:25,233\n非常好環島高鐵是攸關國家長遠計畫的重大建設這不只是花東人民要回家安全的路其實它也是我們臺灣進步的一個象徵而且它能夠產生的觀光動能是非常的高的然後最適合\n\n10\n00:03:28,154 --> 00:03:46,723\n當這個協調審議的單位今天報告說你們沒辦法做我在懷疑這已經不是專業考量了這已經是一個政治考量是不是有人告訴你說你就在上面寫說不要你沒辦法做是不是沒有啦我同意啊就是您剛才提到我們擔任這個審議機關是審議協調機關我是接下來請一下我們胡次長\n\n11\n00:03:53,977 --> 00:04:08,406\n吳市長基本上呢我非常的感謝你過去對於雲林高鐵站的付出跟努力我非常敬重你是一個交通專業的人才那我想要聽一聽你的專業意見有關於這個環島高鐵您贊不贊成\n\n12\n00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:24,335\n環島高鐵整體的部分我想能夠促成整個從宜蘭到屏東這部分把它新建起來那以高速鐵路整個運轉的這個效率來講確實可以縮短行車的時間\n\n13\n00:04:28,081 --> 00:04:50,436\n所以你是支持的我是支持但是在整個推動的程序上我覺得要一步一步來去處理那如果以你蓋過這麼多的高鐵站可不可以請問您的意見說您建議這件事情的邏輯跟順序要怎麼做才有可能讓這件事情推行的更加快速\n\n14\n00:04:51,776 --> 00:05:13,662\n在我看到的條例裡面尤其關鍵的這個第4條談到了說希望10年之內能夠完成這個整個計畫那我覺得以我過去的經驗來講的話從可行性研究到綜合規劃這部分看起來就需要可能7、8年的時間才能夠去做但是你後面的這些處理\n\n15\n00:05:14,949 --> 00:05:43,659\n包括施工等等我覺得10年是相對樂觀的不夠長那我想這個是大家可以共同來討論因為我們希望的是結果是要達到結果而不是說在書面上的這個乘一時之快我們也希望說結果是最重要的那我也想要另外再請問你有關於雲林站因為次長應該知道說雲林站現在的運載量是非常穩定的在成長常常也是一票難求\n\n16\n00:05:44,699 --> 00:06:05,157\n是不是可以請次長支持雲林高鐵偵辦?這個部分我想,大體上隨著月亮的成長,我覺得偵辦部分就任何一個營運單位來講,這是應該正面去看待這件事。我就問你,你覺得你自己當任這個交通部的官員這麼久,你自己的感覺雲林高鐵是不是應該偵辦?\n\n17\n00:06:06,978 --> 00:06:30,328\n應該可以朝正班的方向來就安排但是但是今天回頭去可能我們就得在原來考慮上的時候他整個列車組數的安排調度我覺得在如果現在現在有34組列車如果在停靠雲連這個可以允許的這34組列車調度的這個情況之下我覺得應該朝正班的方向來\n\n18\n00:06:30,928 --> 00:06:50,239\n那我也想問次長說,你們是不是也有計畫購買新的列車?有,有那個今年會到幾台?台灣高鐵公司有在做採購,目前今年還沒有到,應該是在2023或者20...應該是2024年或...據我所知今年或明年,在今年年底應該會再來到10台\n\n19\n00:06:53,108 --> 00:06:56,050\n如果有這些列車到位,我覺得在雲林停靠增班這件事情我覺得應該是更有利。\n\n20\n00:07:11,437 --> 00:07:34,768\n那這一件事情本席也拜託我們次長全力的來支持協助來推動好嗎是謝謝另外我也在最後再表達一下就是雲林高鐵站當初沒有想像說運載量會這麼大所以它外面的交通流量也設計的量能不足現在常常造成交通阻塞然後回堵到很大概一公里吧\n\n21\n00:07:35,228 --> 00:07:46,248\n那這樣子旋轉造成很多民眾的不便所以本席也在這裡要求我們交通部是不是儘速的來做一個雲林高鐵站後站的規劃\n\n22\n00:07:47,901 --> 00:07:48,181\n施展議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n710\t24990\t請張嘉郡委員請做選擇主席我想請公主委我們再請公主委公主委今天審查環島高速鐵路建設特別條例請問環島高速鐵路建設是否為國家重大交通建設\n26628\t43776\t是交通建設沒有錯本席查了一下我們國發會的網站喔國發會的網站說重大公共建設計畫為國發會之主要業務其中就包括了交通建設那為什麼國發會的業務報告裡面說你們不能當主管機關這是為什麼\n49950\t61817\t我們主要是審議機關啦那我在 如果 你仔細看 上面有沒有寫 台幣10億以上 交通建設環境這就是審議啦 是啊 審議啊 所以你為什麼要甩鍋呢 你也可以把它承接起來審議啊如果這樣還不夠明確的話 前瞻基礎建設特別條例也名列\n73664\t73684\t委員長\n91886\t116684\t前瞻基礎建設它是一個綜合型的,是一個大的八項裡面,但是單一的部分,軌道單一的……對啊,你看,軌道建設、數位建設、城鄉建設、綠燃建設、水資源建設、人才培育建設,還有因應草子化建設你都可以做,只有環島高速鐵路你不能做,是嗎?不是,單一的軌道建設主管機構還是交通部。\n117364\t122766\t前瞻基礎建設說你可以當主管機關現在說環島高鐵你就不行很明顯的你們想當主管機關的時候何止是軌道建設、食安數位、水環境你們都可以當主管機關啊\n138339\t163867\t因為目前你們是幕僚單位、審議單位也是最適合跨部會協調的審議單位包括說花東地區的鐵路雙軌電氣化計畫、臺九花東縱谷公路安全景觀大道計畫還有蘇花公路安全提升計畫等等\n164927\t183255\t都是國發會當主要的審議機關如今卻說環島高鐵建設你們管不了 你是不是你們應該不是管不了 你是在推卸責任吧不是 我們可以當審議機關跟剛剛您提到的那個台九線那個一樣我們是審議機關 那主政單位就是交通部\n184346\t205233\t非常好環島高鐵是攸關國家長遠計畫的重大建設這不只是花東人民要回家安全的路其實它也是我們臺灣進步的一個象徵而且它能夠產生的觀光動能是非常的高的然後最適合\n208154\t226723\t當這個協調審議的單位今天報告說你們沒辦法做我在懷疑這已經不是專業考量了這已經是一個政治考量是不是有人告訴你說你就在上面寫說不要你沒辦法做是不是沒有啦我同意啊就是您剛才提到我們擔任這個審議機關是審議協調機關我是接下來請一下我們胡次長\n233977\t248406\t吳市長 基本上呢我非常的感謝你過去對於雲林高鐵站的付出跟努力我非常敬重你是一個交通專業的人才那我想要聽一聽你的專業意見有關於這個環島高鐵您贊不贊成\n253879\t264335\t環島高鐵整體的部分我想能夠促成整個從宜蘭到屏東這部分把它新建起來那以高速鐵路整個運轉的這個效率來講確實可以縮短行車的時間\n268081\t290436\t所以你是支持的我是支持但是在整個推動的程序上我覺得要一步一步來去處理那如果以你蓋過這麼多的高鐵站可不可以請問您的意見說您建議這件事情的邏輯跟順序要怎麼做才有可能讓這件事情推行的更加快速\n291776\t313662\t在我看到的條例裡面尤其關鍵的這個第4條談到了說希望10年之內能夠完成這個整個計畫那我覺得以我過去的經驗來講的話從可行性研究到綜合規劃這部分看起來就需要可能7、8年的時間才能夠去做但是你後面的這些處理\n314949\t343659\t包括施工等等我覺得10年是相對樂觀的不夠長那我想這個是大家可以共同來討論因為我們希望的是結果是要達到結果而不是說在書面上的這個乘一時之快我們也希望說結果是最重要的那我也想要另外再請問你有關於雲林站因為次長應該知道說雲林站現在的運載量是非常穩定的在成長常常也是一票難求\n344699\t365157\t是不是可以請次長支持雲林高鐵偵辦?這個部分我想,大體上隨著月亮的成長,我覺得偵辦部分就任何一個營運單位來講,這是應該正面去看待這件事。我就問你,你覺得你自己當任這個交通部的官員這麼久,你自己的感覺雲林高鐵是不是應該偵辦?\n366978\t390328\t應該可以朝正班的方向來就安排但是但是今天回頭去可能我們就得在原來考慮上的時候他整個列車組數的安排調度我覺得在如果現在現在有34組列車如果在停靠雲連這個可以允許的這34組列車調度的這個情況之下我覺得應該朝正班的方向來\n390928\t410239\t那我也想問次長說,你們是不是也有計畫購買新的列車?有,有那個 今年會到幾台?台灣高鐵公司有在做採購,目前今年還沒有到,應該是在2023或者20...應該是2024年或...據我所知今年或明年,在今年年底應該會再來到10台\n413108\t416050\t如果有這些列車到位,我覺得在雲林停靠增班這件事情我覺得應該是更有利。\n431437\t454768\t那這一件事情本席也拜託我們次長全力的來支持協助來推動好嗎是 謝謝另外我也在最後再表達一下就是雲林高鐵站當初沒有想像說運載量會這麼大所以它外面的交通流量也設計的量能不足現在常常造成交通阻塞然後回堵到很大概一公里吧\n455228\t466248\t那這樣子旋轉造成很多民眾的不便所以本席也在這裡要求我們交通部是不是儘速的來做一個雲林高鐵站後站的規劃\n467901\t468181\t施展議員\n","txt":"請張嘉郡委員請做選擇主席我想請公主委我們再請公主委公主委今天審查環島高速鐵路建設特別條例請問環島高速鐵路建設是否為國家重大交通建設\n是交通建設沒有錯本席查了一下我們國發會的網站喔國發會的網站說重大公共建設計畫為國發會之主要業務其中就包括了交通建設那為什麼國發會的業務報告裡面說你們不能當主管機關這是為什麼\n我們主要是審議機關啦那我在 如果 你仔細看 上面有沒有寫 台幣10億以上 交通建設環境這就是審議啦 是啊 審議啊 所以你為什麼要甩鍋呢 你也可以把它承接起來審議啊如果這樣還不夠明確的話 前瞻基礎建設特別條例也名列\n委員長\n前瞻基礎建設它是一個綜合型的,是一個大的八項裡面,但是單一的部分,軌道單一的……對啊,你看,軌道建設、數位建設、城鄉建設、綠燃建設、水資源建設、人才培育建設,還有因應草子化建設你都可以做,只有環島高速鐵路你不能做,是嗎?不是,單一的軌道建設主管機構還是交通部。\n前瞻基礎建設說你可以當主管機關現在說環島高鐵你就不行很明顯的你們想當主管機關的時候何止是軌道建設、食安數位、水環境你們都可以當主管機關啊\n因為目前你們是幕僚單位、審議單位也是最適合跨部會協調的審議單位包括說花東地區的鐵路雙軌電氣化計畫、臺九花東縱谷公路安全景觀大道計畫還有蘇花公路安全提升計畫等等\n都是國發會當主要的審議機關如今卻說環島高鐵建設你們管不了 你是不是你們應該不是管不了 你是在推卸責任吧不是 我們可以當審議機關跟剛剛您提到的那個台九線那個一樣我們是審議機關 那主政單位就是交通部\n非常好環島高鐵是攸關國家長遠計畫的重大建設這不只是花東人民要回家安全的路其實它也是我們臺灣進步的一個象徵而且它能夠產生的觀光動能是非常的高的然後最適合\n當這個協調審議的單位今天報告說你們沒辦法做我在懷疑這已經不是專業考量了這已經是一個政治考量是不是有人告訴你說你就在上面寫說不要你沒辦法做是不是沒有啦我同意啊就是您剛才提到我們擔任這個審議機關是審議協調機關我是接下來請一下我們胡次長\n吳市長 基本上呢我非常的感謝你過去對於雲林高鐵站的付出跟努力我非常敬重你是一個交通專業的人才那我想要聽一聽你的專業意見有關於這個環島高鐵您贊不贊成\n環島高鐵整體的部分我想能夠促成整個從宜蘭到屏東這部分把它新建起來那以高速鐵路整個運轉的這個效率來講確實可以縮短行車的時間\n所以你是支持的我是支持但是在整個推動的程序上我覺得要一步一步來去處理那如果以你蓋過這麼多的高鐵站可不可以請問您的意見說您建議這件事情的邏輯跟順序要怎麼做才有可能讓這件事情推行的更加快速\n在我看到的條例裡面尤其關鍵的這個第4條談到了說希望10年之內能夠完成這個整個計畫那我覺得以我過去的經驗來講的話從可行性研究到綜合規劃這部分看起來就需要可能7、8年的時間才能夠去做但是你後面的這些處理\n包括施工等等我覺得10年是相對樂觀的不夠長那我想這個是大家可以共同來討論因為我們希望的是結果是要達到結果而不是說在書面上的這個乘一時之快我們也希望說結果是最重要的那我也想要另外再請問你有關於雲林站因為次長應該知道說雲林站現在的運載量是非常穩定的在成長常常也是一票難求\n是不是可以請次長支持雲林高鐵偵辦?這個部分我想,大體上隨著月亮的成長,我覺得偵辦部分就任何一個營運單位來講,這是應該正面去看待這件事。我就問你,你覺得你自己當任這個交通部的官員這麼久,你自己的感覺雲林高鐵是不是應該偵辦?\n應該可以朝正班的方向來就安排但是但是今天回頭去可能我們就得在原來考慮上的時候他整個列車組數的安排調度我覺得在如果現在現在有34組列車如果在停靠雲連這個可以允許的這34組列車調度的這個情況之下我覺得應該朝正班的方向來\n那我也想問次長說,你們是不是也有計畫購買新的列車?有,有那個 今年會到幾台?台灣高鐵公司有在做採購,目前今年還沒有到,應該是在2023或者20...應該是2024年或...據我所知今年或明年,在今年年底應該會再來到10台\n如果有這些列車到位,我覺得在雲林停靠增班這件事情我覺得應該是更有利。\n那這一件事情本席也拜託我們次長全力的來支持協助來推動好嗎是 謝謝另外我也在最後再表達一下就是雲林高鐵站當初沒有想像說運載量會這麼大所以它外面的交通流量也設計的量能不足現在常常造成交通阻塞然後回堵到很大概一公里吧\n那這樣子旋轉造成很多民眾的不便所以本席也在這裡要求我們交通部是不是儘速的來做一個雲林高鐵站後站的規劃\n施展議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.710 --> 00:24.990\n請張嘉郡委員請做選擇主席我想請公主委我們再請公主委公主委今天審查環島高速鐵路建設特別條例請問環島高速鐵路建設是否為國家重大交通建設\n\n00:26.628 --> 00:43.776\n是交通建設沒有錯本席查了一下我們國發會的網站喔國發會的網站說重大公共建設計畫為國發會之主要業務其中就包括了交通建設那為什麼國發會的業務報告裡面說你們不能當主管機關這是為什麼\n\n00:49.950 --> 01:01.817\n我們主要是審議機關啦那我在如果你仔細看上面有沒有寫台幣10億以上交通建設環境這就是審議啦是啊審議啊所以你為什麼要甩鍋呢你也可以把它承接起來審議啊如果這樣還不夠明確的話前瞻基礎建設特別條例也名列\n\n01:13.664 --> 01:13.684\n委員長\n\n01:31.886 --> 01:56.684\n前瞻基礎建設它是一個綜合型的,是一個大的八項裡面,但是單一的部分,軌道單一的……對啊,你看,軌道建設、數位建設、城鄉建設、綠燃建設、水資源建設、人才培育建設,還有因應草子化建設你都可以做,只有環島高速鐵路你不能做,是嗎?不是,單一的軌道建設主管機構還是交通部。\n\n01:57.364 --> 02:02.766\n前瞻基礎建設說你可以當主管機關現在說環島高鐵你就不行很明顯的你們想當主管機關的時候何止是軌道建設、食安數位、水環境你們都可以當主管機關啊\n\n02:18.339 --> 02:43.867\n因為目前你們是幕僚單位、審議單位也是最適合跨部會協調的審議單位包括說花東地區的鐵路雙軌電氣化計畫、臺九花東縱谷公路安全景觀大道計畫還有蘇花公路安全提升計畫等等\n\n02:44.927 --> 03:03.255\n都是國發會當主要的審議機關如今卻說環島高鐵建設你們管不了你是不是你們應該不是管不了你是在推卸責任吧不是我們可以當審議機關跟剛剛您提到的那個台九線那個一樣我們是審議機關那主政單位就是交通部\n\n03:04.346 --> 03:25.233\n非常好環島高鐵是攸關國家長遠計畫的重大建設這不只是花東人民要回家安全的路其實它也是我們臺灣進步的一個象徵而且它能夠產生的觀光動能是非常的高的然後最適合\n\n03:28.154 --> 03:46.723\n當這個協調審議的單位今天報告說你們沒辦法做我在懷疑這已經不是專業考量了這已經是一個政治考量是不是有人告訴你說你就在上面寫說不要你沒辦法做是不是沒有啦我同意啊就是您剛才提到我們擔任這個審議機關是審議協調機關我是接下來請一下我們胡次長\n\n03:53.977 --> 04:08.406\n吳市長基本上呢我非常的感謝你過去對於雲林高鐵站的付出跟努力我非常敬重你是一個交通專業的人才那我想要聽一聽你的專業意見有關於這個環島高鐵您贊不贊成\n\n04:13.879 --> 04:24.335\n環島高鐵整體的部分我想能夠促成整個從宜蘭到屏東這部分把它新建起來那以高速鐵路整個運轉的這個效率來講確實可以縮短行車的時間\n\n04:28.081 --> 04:50.436\n所以你是支持的我是支持但是在整個推動的程序上我覺得要一步一步來去處理那如果以你蓋過這麼多的高鐵站可不可以請問您的意見說您建議這件事情的邏輯跟順序要怎麼做才有可能讓這件事情推行的更加快速\n\n04:51.776 --> 05:13.662\n在我看到的條例裡面尤其關鍵的這個第4條談到了說希望10年之內能夠完成這個整個計畫那我覺得以我過去的經驗來講的話從可行性研究到綜合規劃這部分看起來就需要可能7、8年的時間才能夠去做但是你後面的這些處理\n\n05:14.949 --> 05:43.659\n包括施工等等我覺得10年是相對樂觀的不夠長那我想這個是大家可以共同來討論因為我們希望的是結果是要達到結果而不是說在書面上的這個乘一時之快我們也希望說結果是最重要的那我也想要另外再請問你有關於雲林站因為次長應該知道說雲林站現在的運載量是非常穩定的在成長常常也是一票難求\n\n05:44.699 --> 06:05.157\n是不是可以請次長支持雲林高鐵偵辦?這個部分我想,大體上隨著月亮的成長,我覺得偵辦部分就任何一個營運單位來講,這是應該正面去看待這件事。我就問你,你覺得你自己當任這個交通部的官員這麼久,你自己的感覺雲林高鐵是不是應該偵辦?\n\n06:06.978 --> 06:30.328\n應該可以朝正班的方向來就安排但是但是今天回頭去可能我們就得在原來考慮上的時候他整個列車組數的安排調度我覺得在如果現在現在有34組列車如果在停靠雲連這個可以允許的這34組列車調度的這個情況之下我覺得應該朝正班的方向來\n\n06:30.928 --> 06:50.239\n那我也想問次長說,你們是不是也有計畫購買新的列車?有,有那個今年會到幾台?台灣高鐵公司有在做採購,目前今年還沒有到,應該是在2023或者20...應該是2024年或...據我所知今年或明年,在今年年底應該會再來到10台\n\n06:53.108 --> 06:56.050\n如果有這些列車到位,我覺得在雲林停靠增班這件事情我覺得應該是更有利。\n\n07:11.437 --> 07:34.768\n那這一件事情本席也拜託我們次長全力的來支持協助來推動好嗎是謝謝另外我也在最後再表達一下就是雲林高鐵站當初沒有想像說運載量會這麼大所以它外面的交通流量也設計的量能不足現在常常造成交通阻塞然後回堵到很大概一公里吧\n\n07:35.228 --> 07:46.248\n那這樣子旋轉造成很多民眾的不便所以本席也在這裡要求我們交通部是不是儘速的來做一個雲林高鐵站後站的規劃\n\n07:47.901 --> 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