{"id":150710,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150710","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c036b7fe2c5cd5df4325a2f6254cf3c732f8ba9b0039caa7a68f8f6e905f7449da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"09:48:14 - 10:01:05","影片長度":"00:12:51","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":771,"end_time":"2024-04-01T10:01:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T09:48:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":443,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（9時48分）謝謝主席，有請薛部長。"],["主席：有請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：薛部長好。首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養唐菖蒲伯克氏菌，要避免米酵菌酸的生成，想要請問部長，這在臺灣是有技術的嗎？可行性有多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前我們正在檢驗，對於米酵菌酸這個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中，至於培養的部分，有一些還在進行，因為培養需要時間比較長，在技術上面應該沒有太大的問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你們未來可能會做這件事情？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在正在做。"],["廖委員偉翔：現在正在做這件事？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，現在正在做。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。","再來就是駐日代表謝長廷先生建議針對小林製藥的部分，由國內進口業者一併陳報給小林製藥，集體跟藥廠進行交涉，比較容易達成求償的目的。想要請問部長怎麼看？"],["薛部長瑞元：針對這個部分，前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR，亦即透過國際衛生規範所設置的點，日本那邊的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫，要求我們蒐集可能的案例情況回報給他們，目前我們正在做。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK，所以代表衛福部會出面當作統籌的單位？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝部長。再來，部長，日本草莓的農藥不斷地超標，而我們邊境查驗也多次攔下、退運，保障國人的食安，我們在此要對邊境的查驗人員給予肯定。我也看到食藥署在113年（今年）針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品及相關的產品加強查驗的品項列出一份清單，共計12項，其中日本鮮草莓也是加強查驗對象，請教部長，會列在清單上，是不是代表過去不管是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都有許多紀錄，才會被列上這個專案清單？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，這個情況大概是這樣，同樣是草莓，在國內種植的時候也會用到某一些農藥，在日本也會用到某一些農藥，但是這個農藥不一樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我只是想要問，列上這個清單，是不是代表過去違規的紀錄、被查驗到的紀錄比較多？"],["薛部長瑞元：不一定，如果是加強查驗的品項，的確是過去違規比較多。"],["廖委員偉翔：對嘛，就是如此，OK。部長，但是食藥署在今年1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請，要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥，結果你們在3月29日公告發布將在今天、4月1日愚人節當天實施，我想問的是，這樣是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎？部長，對於克凡派、滅達樂這兩種農藥，CODEX的檢出標準是零檢出，就是不得檢出，但是在日本交流協會提出申請後，你們就趕緊開會讓它通過，我想請問你們通過的科學依據何在？過去你們都說CODEX是國際上公認的標準，但是曾幾何時，為什麼日本交流協會好像比CODEX還專業，它來要求，我們就過？而且2022年的時候，因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標，食藥署說因為牽涉的層級太高，不會停止進口，還被當時的部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當，他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多，就會開始逐批查驗，查到有超標就退運、銷毀，可是為什麼到了現在才兩年的時間，你們讓退讓了？部長，這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎？你們要開放日本的農藥殘留標準，又同時說要加強邊境查驗，你不會覺得這樣的邏輯很矛盾、很混亂嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的，因為同樣的產品──草莓，在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣的，因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥，所以我們就沒有殘留的標準。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是它讓你們開放了……"],["薛部長瑞元：它依法就可以來申請，申請之後，我們會經由專家會議去做討論，看看如果可以的話要用怎麼樣……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是你們今天不就公告這個事情OK嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，這已經討論過、已經審過了。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是我想要提醒的是，食藥署究竟應該要幫我們國人保障健康，還是要幫日本賣草莓？因為在CODEX上面就確切地說不得檢出，為什麼我們又要開放呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：你看看美國是有的，所以也不是完全都按照CODEX。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是CODEX也是過去我們常常說是最嚴格的標準……"],["薛部長瑞元：要看是什麼東西的標準，也許CODEX並沒有蒐集到這個……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我要說的事情是，因為國人的健康不應該變成政治利益的談判籌碼。"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以既然CODEX的標準是如此，尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求、很嚴格，為什麼我們要在這個時候匆匆忙忙就通過呢？我認為這樣對國人的健康是非常不好的，而且也是不負責任、不為國人把關健康的。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們當然也有參考其他國家的標準，像剛剛委員提到的克凡派，其實歐盟也有歐盟的標準……"],["廖委員偉翔：有，我的圖表上很清楚，沒有錯，但是我說的就是CODEX，它就是說不得檢出。"],["薛部長瑞元：CODEX並不是我們參考唯一的標準。"],["廖委員偉翔：不是唯一的標準，但是它卻是可以為國人把關比較嚴格的標準，我們是不是應該為了國人的健康……"],["薛部長瑞元：如果是零檢出，但是其他國家有標準，我們就要考慮CODEX是否是因為它沒有收錄進去……"],["廖委員偉翔：你們這樣子是不是也代表有承受到一定的壓力，所以你們必須這樣做？因為我們本來也沒有說要開放，CODEX的標準就是這樣。"],["薛部長瑞元：本來廠商就依法可以來申請，申請之後我們本來就是依法到專家會議討論。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長、署長，我還是想要提醒，國人的健康在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的，尤其是食安。"],["薛部長瑞元：是沒有錯。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我想要告訴你，從過去的經驗看起來，你們就是感受到政治的壓力。部長，現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣，要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確地暗示美豬產品有食安風險，同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對於美牛及其產品的市場，甚至還希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的法律條文拿掉。所以我想要問，對於美國貿易代表署的這份報告，您有什麼態度？部長有被AIT關切這個議題嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：第一個，就你剛剛問的，我沒有被關切到這個；第二個，這個報導可能有問題，因為我們國內從來沒有規定萊劑的標示，我們沒有這個。"],["廖委員偉翔：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：對呀，所以為什麼會跑出這個？"],["廖委員偉翔：因為現在我們提案希望萊劑一定要標示上去。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們現在就沒有，沒有的話，美國為什麼會說敦促要廢除？"],["廖委員偉翔：是，我只是想要……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有的東西要怎麼廢除？"],["廖委員偉翔：是，所以我想問部長，對這件事情，您的態度是什麼？是不是也是一樣要站在國人健康的立場上面做最嚴格的把關？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個本來就是按照國際上的通例、我們國內的規範來進行。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我要告訴部長，我覺得面對國外對於健康的貿易施壓，我們不能夠讓步，好不好？健康無價，人民的健康不應該被當成談判的籌碼。"],["薛部長瑞元：但是仍然要符合國際的規範。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，但是我們政府應該也要強烈地表達我們的立場，對內積極強化食安的把關，才可以贏得國人的信任。","再來，2019年的時候修正通過食安法，明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬。請教部長，從寶林食安事件開始到現在，有沒有人在造謠？這次事件已經造成兩人死亡，國人非常擔憂，而王必勝次長也數度開了記者會，包含透過臉書管道澄清，希望不要造成國人恐慌。而且因為第一例是在新北就醫，所以新北市政府在3月24日當天通報了中央及臺北市政府，臺北市政府也馬上稽查，我想臺北與中央都是同步掌握，也符合SOP，雙北政府也沒有人因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗，所以慢半拍，對吧？部長，當中央、地方都忙著處理寶林的食安事件，而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候，卻有人造謠，謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天，到3月26日11時18分才接受到北市府的通報，請問部長，可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎？這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身分的關係可以豁免？"],["薛部長瑞元：我想是否造謠還有待再去釐清，不過整個事情的前後時序，大概都已經公開……"],["廖委員偉翔：是，沒錯，都已經公開，所以我沒有要怪部長，我只是想要說……"],["薛部長瑞元：是否有改進的地方，都可以進一步來做檢討。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想要提醒的，就是剛剛陳菁徽委員也有提到，我們看到食安稽查人員爆離職潮，而且包括直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不做了，更遑論其他的縣市，而我們國人對於食安的要求、期待甚高，所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣，我的意思是因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準的，而且負責任的政府也應該積極且以更高的標準為國人把關，所以對於現在這些辛苦的稽查人員，個別政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣，就會讓人感覺「前線吃緊、後線緊吃」。所以我想要告訴大家的事情是，剛剛部長您講得很清楚，時序都很清楚，我們期待個別某些執政黨立委不要到處散布謠言，畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全，而不是個人的政治利益。這個部分就到這裡。","其實我還有一題，主席，我可以再問一下嗎？"],["主席：時間差不多了。"],["廖委員偉翔：我儘速。"],["主席：好。"],["廖委員偉翔：在2019年的時候有修正毒性及關注化學物質管理法第四十七條，這個問題可能跟化學署署長、許主任的業務有關，就是明定要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金，可是過很久了，到現在都沒有成立，因為這件事情又涉及到毒物，而且這也關係到食安的源頭管理，所以我想要提醒你們，這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡？你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作？"],["謝署長燕儒：報告委員，這個基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去，其實我們在法公布之後也積極在進行基金的籌備工作，所以我們從103年開始進行跟業界的溝通，但是很不巧的是在那時候有COVID-19的發生，所以我們那個時候就先緩下來，最近我們也有開始再來跟業界溝通要成立這個基金。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，所以我要告訴你，已經拖了五年多，這就是應做而未做，尤其是到現在發生了這樣的事件，我想這件事情也顯得格外的重要，我要提醒你們，這件事情要趕快進行，謝謝。"],["謝署長燕儒：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，我們謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。接下來輪到本席進行質詢。"],["主席（廖委員偉翔代）：請王育敏委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清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\"部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 122.469, \"end\": 122.769, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 122.769, \"end\": 122.91, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 122.91, \"end\": 123.27, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 123.27, \"end\": 123.47, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 123.47, \"end\": 123.63, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 123.63, \"end\": 123.871, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 123.871, \"end\": 124.071, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"莓\", \"start\": 124.071, \"end\": 124.431, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 124.431, \"end\": 124.832, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 124.832, \"end\": 125.092, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 125.092, \"end\": 125.292, 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{\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 161.069, \"end\": 161.329, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 161.329, \"end\": 161.449, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 161.449, \"end\": 161.609, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 161.609, \"end\": 161.709, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 161.709, \"end\": 161.729, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 161.729, \"end\": 161.749, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"單\"}]}, {\"start\": 164.486, \"end\": 176.482, \"text\": \"跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 164.486, \"end\": 164.806, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 164.806, \"end\": 164.946, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 164.946, \"end\": 165.467, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": 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{\"start\": 181.148, \"end\": 206.137, \"text\": \"是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 181.148, \"end\": 181.228, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 181.228, \"end\": 181.308, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 181.308, \"end\": 181.388, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 181.388, \"end\": 181.508, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 181.508, \"end\": 181.888, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 181.888, \"end\": 182.028, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 182.028, \"end\": 183.189, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 183.189, \"end\": 183.449, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 183.449, \"end\": 183.649, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 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\"的\", \"start\": 495.109, \"end\": 495.129, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 495.129, \"end\": 495.149, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 495.149, \"end\": 495.169, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 495.169, \"end\": 495.229, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 495.229, \"end\": 495.249, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 514.6, \"end\": 536.482, \"text\": \"所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 514.6, \"end\": 514.7, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 514.7, \"end\": 514.76, \"score\": 0.586}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 514.76, \"end\": 514.86, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 514.86, \"end\": 514.981, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 754.16, \"end\": 754.56, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 754.56, \"end\": 754.7, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 754.7, \"end\": 755.021, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 755.021, \"end\": 755.221, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 755.221, \"end\": 755.241, \"score\": 0.227}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 755.441, \"end\": 755.641, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 755.641, \"end\": 755.661, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,327 --> 00:00:17,632\n謝主席,有請我們薛部長。好,有請薛部長。\n\n2\n00:00:22,133 --> 00:00:40,755\n委員好學部長好部長首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養這個糖瘡蒲伯克氏菌要避免米酵菌酸的生成想要請問部長這在臺灣是有技術的嗎可行性是有多少\n\n3\n00:00:41,616 --> 00:01:00,516\n目前我們正在檢驗的那對於這個米香菌酸這一個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中但是培養的部分的話有一些還在進行因為培養需要時間比較長所以技術上面應該沒有太大的問題\n\n4\n00:01:01,004 --> 00:01:20,282\n所以你們未來可能會做這件事情現在正在現在正在做這件事情好謝謝那再來就是我們駐日代表謝長廷先生建議說由這個小林製藥部分由國內進口業者一併呈報給小林製藥集體跟藥廠去做這個交涉比較容易達成這個求償的目的想要請問部長怎麼看\n\n5\n00:01:22,122 --> 00:01:31,614\n這個部分也跟委員報告前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR國際衛生規範所設置的點\n\n6\n00:01:39,884 --> 00:01:59,713\n那日本那邊已經他們的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫那要求我們收集這一些可能的一些案例的情況的話回報給他們目前我們正在做所以代表就是衛福部會出面也當作一個統籌的單位好謝謝部長再來\n\n7\n00:02:02,469 --> 00:02:14,603\n部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔\n\n8\n00:02:15,287 --> 00:02:41,749\n那我也看到食藥署在113年也就是今年針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品跟相關的產品加強的這個茶宴的品項是有一份清單共計是12項那其中日本的仙草莓也是加強茶宴對象請教部長會列在清單上是不是代表過去不管是不是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都是有許多的紀錄才會被列上這個專案清單\n\n9\n00:02:44,486 --> 00:02:56,482\n跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單\n\n10\n00:03:01,148 --> 00:03:26,137\n是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥\n\n11\n00:03:27,737 --> 00:03:38,372\n結果你們在3月29日公告發布也就在今天4月1號愚人節當天實施我是想問說這樣子是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎?部長\n\n12\n00:03:39,329 --> 00:04:04,986\n克帆派跟這個滅達勒這兩種農藥Codex的檢出標準就是零檢出就是不得檢出但是在日本交流協會提出申請後你們就趕緊開會讓他通過我想請問你們的通過科學依據何在因為過去你們都說Codex是國際上公認的標準但是曾幾何時為什麼這個日本交流協會好像比Codex還專業來要求我們就過\n\n13\n00:04:06,121 --> 00:04:20,609\n而且2022年的時候因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標食藥署說因為涉及的牽涉的層級太高不會停止進口還被當時的這個部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當\n\n14\n00:04:23,888 --> 00:04:48,795\n然後他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多就會開始逐批查驗嘛查到有超標就退運銷毀可是為什麼到了現在才不到才兩年的時間喔你們就退讓了部長這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎你們同時要開放日本的農藥殘留標準又同時說要加強邊境查驗你不會覺得這樣子的邏輯很矛盾然後很混亂嗎\n\n15\n00:04:51,340 --> 00:05:12,492\n這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為同樣的一個產品這個草莓在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥所以我們就沒有這個殘餘的這個標準但是他讓你們開放了所以他依法他就可以來申請\n\n16\n00:05:13,573 --> 00:05:37,210\n申請之後的話我們會經由這個專家會議來去做討論看看如果可以的話但是你們今天不就公告說這個事情就是對阿這已經討論過但是我想要提醒的是說我們食藥署究竟應該是要幫我們國人保障我們健康還是要幫日本賣草莓因為在Codex上面就是確切的說不得檢出喔那為什麼我們又要開放呢\n\n17\n00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:55,637\n這個你看在美國它是有的所以也不是完全都按照Codex但是Codex也是過去我們常常說這是最廣的標準所以我們也許Codex並沒有收集到部長我要在這裡說的事情是因為國人的健康不應該是變成是政治利益的籌碼來談判\n\n18\n00:05:57,638 --> 00:06:13,637\n所以CODAX既然它的標準尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求很嚴格為什麼我們要做這個時候而且匆匆忙忙就給它通過呢我認為這樣子是非常對國人的健康是非常不好的而且也是不負責任為國人把關健康的\n\n19\n00:06:14,898 --> 00:06:30,556\n這個當然我們也有參考其他國家的標準像剛剛委員提到的客房派其實歐盟也有歐盟標準有我這個圖表上是很清楚沒有錯但是我說的就是Codex他就是說不得檢出我們Codex並不是我們參考唯一的標準\n\n20\n00:06:31,357 --> 00:06:35,921\n那你們這樣子是不是也代表說有承受到一定的壓力所以你們必須這樣做因為我們本來也沒有說要開放嘛\n\n21\n00:06:53,715 --> 00:07:12,610\n本來藏商就依法是可以來做申請申請之後我們本來就是依法部長我是想要提醒部長、署長我還是想要提醒國人的健康應該是在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的尤其是食安所以我想要告訴你從過去的經驗看起來\n\n22\n00:07:13,150 --> 00:07:37,411\n你們就是感受到這種政治的壓力啊因為包含部長現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確的暗示美豬產品有食安風險同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對美牛跟及其產品的市場甚至還有希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的這個法律條文拿掉\n\n23\n00:07:38,430 --> 00:08:01,200\n所以我想問對於這份報告美國貿易代表署的這份報告您有什麼態度而且部長有被AIT關切過這個議題嗎第一個你剛剛問的我沒有被關切到這個第二個這個可能有問題這一個報導因為我們國內從來沒有去規定來即的標示我們沒有這一個\n\n24\n00:08:02,085 --> 00:08:10,680\n是對啊阿所以為什麼因為現在我們提案希望來季一定要標示上去阿我們就沒有阿現在沒有但是沒有的話美國為什麼會訴說要廢除\n\n25\n00:08:12,608 --> 00:08:15,249\n這本來就是按照這個國際上的一個通例然後就是我們國內的這樣子的一個規範來進行\n\n26\n00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:56,482\n所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來\n\n27\n00:08:59,787 --> 00:09:23,902\n2019年的時候修正過這個通過過食安法明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬請教部長從寶林市食安事件開始到現在有沒有人在造謠部長因為這一次事件也已經造成兩人死亡國人非常擔憂而王必勝次長也速度開了記者會也包含透過臉書管道呼籲澄清希望不要造成國人恐慌\n\n28\n00:09:24,682 --> 00:09:43,508\n而且部長因為第一例是在新北就醫所以新北市政府3月24日當天通報了中央跟臺北市政府臺北市政府也馬上稽查我想臺北跟中央都是同步掌握也是符合SOP那雙北政府也沒有人說因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗所以慢半拍對吧\n\n29\n00:09:44,793 --> 00:10:04,768\n那部長當中央地方都忙著處理寶林的這個食安事件而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候卻有人造謠謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天到3月26號11點18分才接受到北市府的通報請問部長可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身份的關係可以豁免\n\n30\n00:10:06,875 --> 00:10:32,022\n我想是否造謠這個還有待再去釐清不過整個的事情的一個前後的話大概都已經前後的這些時序的話是沒錯都已經公開對所以我沒有要怪部長我只想要說是否有改進的地方這個都可以進一步來做檢討我想要提醒的就是我們也看到食安急查人員剛剛我們陳吉輝委員有提到爆離職草\n\n31\n00:10:33,502 --> 00:10:53,257\n而且包含直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不作更遑論其他的縣市而我們國人對於食安的要求期待甚高所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣的意思因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準而且我們也應該負責任的政府也應該積極而且更高標準的為他們把關\n\n32\n00:10:54,491 --> 00:11:09,609\n所以國人對於這個所以包含現在辛苦這些稽查人員之外各別的政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣就會讓人家感覺有一句話叫做前線吃緊了後線緊吃所以我是想要告訴大家的事情是\n\n33\n00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:24,514\n我們期待衛福部也能夠剛剛您講的很清楚時序都很清楚希望個別某些的執政黨立委不要到處散播謠言畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全而不是個人的政治利益\n\n34\n00:11:26,284 --> 00:11:47,314\n這部分到這裡其實我還有一題主席我可以再問一下嗎時間差不多好最後我很盡速就是在2019年的時候有修正一個毒性跟關注化學物質管理法的第47條要明定這可能要跟這個我們的化學署長跟我們許主任有關\n\n35\n00:11:48,683 --> 00:12:09,964\n明定說要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金我看到這個東西因為現在很久沒有這件事情到現在都沒有成立那因為這件事情又涉及到這種毒物而且這也是第一這個食安的源頭的管理喔所以我想要提醒你們這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作\n\n36\n00:12:11,637 --> 00:12:35,241\n報告委員我們基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去那其實我們法公佈之後我們也積極在進行基金的籌備工作在103年我們也開始做這個跟業界的溝通但是很不巧是那時候有COVID-19的發生所以我們那個時候就先緩下來那麼最近我們有開始再來跟業界溝通來成立這個基金\n\n37\n00:12:35,441 --> 00:12:35,661\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14327\t17632\t謝主席,有請我們薛部長。好,有請薛部長。\n22133\t40755\t委員好學部長好部長首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養這個糖瘡蒲伯克氏菌要避免米酵菌酸的生成想要請問部長這在臺灣是有技術的嗎可行性是有多少\n41616\t60516\t目前我們正在檢驗的那對於這個米香菌酸這一個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中但是培養的部分的話有一些還在進行因為培養需要時間比較長所以技術上面應該沒有太大的問題\n61004\t80282\t所以你們未來可能會做這件事情現在正在現在正在做這件事情好 謝謝那再來就是我們駐日代表謝長廷先生建議說由這個小林製藥部分由國內進口業者一併呈報給小林製藥集體跟藥廠去做這個交涉比較容易達成這個求償的目的想要請問部長怎麼看\n82122\t91614\t這個部分也跟委員報告前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR國際衛生規範所設置的點\n99884\t119713\t那日本那邊已經他們的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫那要求我們收集這一些可能的一些案例的情況的話回報給他們目前我們正在做所以代表就是衛福部會出面也當作一個統籌的單位好 謝謝部長再來\n122469\t134603\t部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔\n135287\t161749\t那我也看到食藥署在113年也就是今年針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品跟相關的產品加強的這個茶宴的品項是有一份清單共計是12項那其中日本的仙草莓也是加強茶宴對象請教部長會列在清單上是不是代表過去不管是不是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都是有許多的紀錄才會被列上這個專案清單\n164486\t176482\t跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單\n181148\t206137\t是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥\n207737\t218372\t結果你們在3月29日公告發布也就在今天4月1號愚人節當天實施我是想問說這樣子是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎?部長\n219329\t244986\t克帆派跟這個滅達勒這兩種農藥Codex的檢出標準就是零檢出就是不得檢出但是在日本交流協會提出申請後你們就趕緊開會讓他通過我想請問你們的通過科學依據何在因為過去你們都說Codex是國際上公認的標準但是曾幾何時為什麼這個日本交流協會好像比Codex還專業來要求我們就過\n246121\t260609\t而且2022年的時候因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標食藥署說因為涉及的牽涉的層級太高不會停止進口還被當時的這個部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當\n263888\t288795\t然後他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多就會開始逐批查驗嘛查到有超標就退運銷毀可是為什麼到了現在才不到才兩年的時間喔你們就退讓了部長這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎你們同時要開放日本的農藥殘留標準又同時說要加強邊境查驗你不會覺得這樣子的邏輯很矛盾然後很混亂嗎\n291340\t312492\t這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為同樣的一個產品這個草莓在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥所以我們就沒有這個殘餘的這個標準但是他讓你們開放了所以他依法他就可以來申請\n313573\t337210\t申請之後的話我們會經由這個專家會議來去做討論看看如果可以的話但是你們今天不就公告說這個事情就是對阿這已經討論過但是我想要提醒的是說我們食藥署究竟應該是要幫我們國人保障我們健康還是要幫日本賣草莓因為在Codex上面就是確切的說不得檢出喔那為什麼我們又要開放呢\n338290\t355637\t這個你看在美國它是有的所以也不是完全都按照Codex但是Codex也是過去我們常常說這是最廣的標準所以我們也許Codex並沒有收集到部長我要在這裡說的事情是因為國人的健康不應該是變成是政治利益的籌碼來談判\n357638\t373637\t所以CODAX既然它的標準尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求很嚴格為什麼我們要做這個時候而且匆匆忙忙就給它通過呢我認為這樣子是非常對國人的健康是非常不好的而且也是不負責任為國人把關健康的\n374898\t390556\t這個當然我們也有參考其他國家的標準像剛剛委員提到的客房派其實歐盟也有歐盟標準有我這個圖表上是很清楚沒有錯但是我說的就是Codex他就是說不得檢出我們Codex並不是我們參考唯一的標準\n391357\t395921\t那你們這樣子是不是也代表說有承受到一定的壓力所以你們必須這樣做因為我們本來也沒有說要開放嘛\n413715\t432610\t本來藏商就依法是可以來做申請申請之後我們本來就是依法部長我是想要提醒部長、署長我還是想要提醒國人的健康應該是在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的尤其是食安所以我想要告訴你從過去的經驗看起來\n433150\t457411\t你們就是感受到這種政治的壓力啊因為包含部長現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確的暗示美豬產品有食安風險同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對美牛跟及其產品的市場甚至還有希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的這個法律條文拿掉\n458430\t481200\t所以我想問對於這份報告美國貿易代表署的這份報告您有什麼態度而且部長有被AIT關切過這個議題嗎第一個你剛剛問的我沒有被關切到這個第二個這個可能有問題這一個報導因為我們國內從來沒有去規定來即的標示我們沒有這一個\n482085\t490680\t是對啊阿所以為什麼因為現在我們提案希望來季一定要標示上去阿我們就沒有阿現在沒有但是沒有的話美國為什麼會訴說要廢除\n492608\t495249\t這本來就是按照這個國際上的一個通例然後就是我們國內的這樣子的一個規範來進行\n514600\t536482\t所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來\n539787\t563902\t2019年的時候修正過這個通過過食安法明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬請教部長從寶林市食安事件開始到現在有沒有人在造謠部長因為這一次事件也已經造成兩人死亡國人非常擔憂而王必勝次長也速度開了記者會也包含透過臉書管道呼籲澄清希望不要造成國人恐慌\n564682\t583508\t而且部長因為第一例是在新北就醫所以新北市政府3月24日當天通報了中央跟臺北市政府臺北市政府也馬上稽查我想臺北跟中央都是同步掌握也是符合SOP那雙北政府也沒有人說因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗所以慢半拍對吧\n584793\t604768\t那部長當中央地方都忙著處理寶林的這個食安事件而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候卻有人造謠謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天到3月26號11點18分才接受到北市府的通報請問部長可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身份的關係可以豁免\n606875\t632022\t我想是否造謠這個還有待再去釐清不過整個的事情的一個前後的話大概都已經前後的這些時序的話是沒錯都已經公開對所以我沒有要怪部長我只想要說是否有改進的地方這個都可以進一步來做檢討我想要提醒的就是我們也看到食安急查人員剛剛我們陳吉輝委員有提到爆離職草\n633502\t653257\t而且包含直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不作更遑論其他的縣市而我們國人對於食安的要求期待甚高所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣的意思因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準而且我們也應該負責任的政府也應該積極而且更高標準的為他們把關\n654491\t669609\t所以國人對於這個所以包含現在辛苦這些稽查人員之外各別的政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣就會讓人家感覺有一句話叫做前線吃緊了後線緊吃所以我是想要告訴大家的事情是\n671840\t684514\t我們期待衛福部也能夠剛剛您講的很清楚時序都很清楚希望個別某些的執政黨立委不要到處散播謠言畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全而不是個人的政治利益\n686284\t707314\t這部分到這裡其實我還有一題主席我可以再問一下嗎時間差不多好最後 我很盡速就是在2019年的時候有修正一個毒性跟關注化學物質管理法的第47條要明定這可能要跟這個我們的化學署長跟我們許主任有關\n708683\t729964\t明定說要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金我看到這個東西因為現在很久沒有這件事情到現在都沒有成立那因為這件事情又涉及到這種毒物而且這也是第一這個食安的源頭的管理喔所以我想要提醒你們這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作\n731637\t755241\t報告委員我們基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去那其實我們法公佈之後我們也積極在進行基金的籌備工作在103年我們也開始做這個跟業界的溝通但是很不巧是那時候有COVID-19的發生所以我們那個時候就先緩下來那麼最近我們有開始再來跟業界溝通來成立這個基金\n755441\t755661\t主席\n","txt":"謝主席,有請我們薛部長。好,有請薛部長。\n委員好學部長好部長首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養這個糖瘡蒲伯克氏菌要避免米酵菌酸的生成想要請問部長這在臺灣是有技術的嗎可行性是有多少\n目前我們正在檢驗的那對於這個米香菌酸這一個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中但是培養的部分的話有一些還在進行因為培養需要時間比較長所以技術上面應該沒有太大的問題\n所以你們未來可能會做這件事情現在正在現在正在做這件事情好 謝謝那再來就是我們駐日代表謝長廷先生建議說由這個小林製藥部分由國內進口業者一併呈報給小林製藥集體跟藥廠去做這個交涉比較容易達成這個求償的目的想要請問部長怎麼看\n這個部分也跟委員報告前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR國際衛生規範所設置的點\n那日本那邊已經他們的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫那要求我們收集這一些可能的一些案例的情況的話回報給他們目前我們正在做所以代表就是衛福部會出面也當作一個統籌的單位好 謝謝部長再來\n部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔\n那我也看到食藥署在113年也就是今年針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品跟相關的產品加強的這個茶宴的品項是有一份清單共計是12項那其中日本的仙草莓也是加強茶宴對象請教部長會列在清單上是不是代表過去不管是不是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都是有許多的紀錄才會被列上這個專案清單\n跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單\n是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥\n結果你們在3月29日公告發布也就在今天4月1號愚人節當天實施我是想問說這樣子是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎?部長\n克帆派跟這個滅達勒這兩種農藥Codex的檢出標準就是零檢出就是不得檢出但是在日本交流協會提出申請後你們就趕緊開會讓他通過我想請問你們的通過科學依據何在因為過去你們都說Codex是國際上公認的標準但是曾幾何時為什麼這個日本交流協會好像比Codex還專業來要求我們就過\n而且2022年的時候因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標食藥署說因為涉及的牽涉的層級太高不會停止進口還被當時的這個部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當\n然後他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多就會開始逐批查驗嘛查到有超標就退運銷毀可是為什麼到了現在才不到才兩年的時間喔你們就退讓了部長這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎你們同時要開放日本的農藥殘留標準又同時說要加強邊境查驗你不會覺得這樣子的邏輯很矛盾然後很混亂嗎\n這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為同樣的一個產品這個草莓在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥所以我們就沒有這個殘餘的這個標準但是他讓你們開放了所以他依法他就可以來申請\n申請之後的話我們會經由這個專家會議來去做討論看看如果可以的話但是你們今天不就公告說這個事情就是對阿這已經討論過但是我想要提醒的是說我們食藥署究竟應該是要幫我們國人保障我們健康還是要幫日本賣草莓因為在Codex上面就是確切的說不得檢出喔那為什麼我們又要開放呢\n這個你看在美國它是有的所以也不是完全都按照Codex但是Codex也是過去我們常常說這是最廣的標準所以我們也許Codex並沒有收集到部長我要在這裡說的事情是因為國人的健康不應該是變成是政治利益的籌碼來談判\n所以CODAX既然它的標準尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求很嚴格為什麼我們要做這個時候而且匆匆忙忙就給它通過呢我認為這樣子是非常對國人的健康是非常不好的而且也是不負責任為國人把關健康的\n這個當然我們也有參考其他國家的標準像剛剛委員提到的客房派其實歐盟也有歐盟標準有我這個圖表上是很清楚沒有錯但是我說的就是Codex他就是說不得檢出我們Codex並不是我們參考唯一的標準\n那你們這樣子是不是也代表說有承受到一定的壓力所以你們必須這樣做因為我們本來也沒有說要開放嘛\n本來藏商就依法是可以來做申請申請之後我們本來就是依法部長我是想要提醒部長、署長我還是想要提醒國人的健康應該是在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的尤其是食安所以我想要告訴你從過去的經驗看起來\n你們就是感受到這種政治的壓力啊因為包含部長現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確的暗示美豬產品有食安風險同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對美牛跟及其產品的市場甚至還有希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的這個法律條文拿掉\n所以我想問對於這份報告美國貿易代表署的這份報告您有什麼態度而且部長有被AIT關切過這個議題嗎第一個你剛剛問的我沒有被關切到這個第二個這個可能有問題這一個報導因為我們國內從來沒有去規定來即的標示我們沒有這一個\n是對啊阿所以為什麼因為現在我們提案希望來季一定要標示上去阿我們就沒有阿現在沒有但是沒有的話美國為什麼會訴說要廢除\n這本來就是按照這個國際上的一個通例然後就是我們國內的這樣子的一個規範來進行\n所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來\n2019年的時候修正過這個通過過食安法明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬請教部長從寶林市食安事件開始到現在有沒有人在造謠部長因為這一次事件也已經造成兩人死亡國人非常擔憂而王必勝次長也速度開了記者會也包含透過臉書管道呼籲澄清希望不要造成國人恐慌\n而且部長因為第一例是在新北就醫所以新北市政府3月24日當天通報了中央跟臺北市政府臺北市政府也馬上稽查我想臺北跟中央都是同步掌握也是符合SOP那雙北政府也沒有人說因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗所以慢半拍對吧\n那部長當中央地方都忙著處理寶林的這個食安事件而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候卻有人造謠謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天到3月26號11點18分才接受到北市府的通報請問部長可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身份的關係可以豁免\n我想是否造謠這個還有待再去釐清不過整個的事情的一個前後的話大概都已經前後的這些時序的話是沒錯都已經公開對所以我沒有要怪部長我只想要說是否有改進的地方這個都可以進一步來做檢討我想要提醒的就是我們也看到食安急查人員剛剛我們陳吉輝委員有提到爆離職草\n而且包含直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不作更遑論其他的縣市而我們國人對於食安的要求期待甚高所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣的意思因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準而且我們也應該負責任的政府也應該積極而且更高標準的為他們把關\n所以國人對於這個所以包含現在辛苦這些稽查人員之外各別的政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣就會讓人家感覺有一句話叫做前線吃緊了後線緊吃所以我是想要告訴大家的事情是\n我們期待衛福部也能夠剛剛您講的很清楚時序都很清楚希望個別某些的執政黨立委不要到處散播謠言畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全而不是個人的政治利益\n這部分到這裡其實我還有一題主席我可以再問一下嗎時間差不多好最後 我很盡速就是在2019年的時候有修正一個毒性跟關注化學物質管理法的第47條要明定這可能要跟這個我們的化學署長跟我們許主任有關\n明定說要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金我看到這個東西因為現在很久沒有這件事情到現在都沒有成立那因為這件事情又涉及到這種毒物而且這也是第一這個食安的源頭的管理喔所以我想要提醒你們這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作\n報告委員我們基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去那其實我們法公佈之後我們也積極在進行基金的籌備工作在103年我們也開始做這個跟業界的溝通但是很不巧是那時候有COVID-19的發生所以我們那個時候就先緩下來那麼最近我們有開始再來跟業界溝通來成立這個基金\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.327 --> 00:17.632\n謝主席,有請我們薛部長。好,有請薛部長。\n\n00:22.133 --> 00:40.755\n委員好學部長好部長首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養這個糖瘡蒲伯克氏菌要避免米酵菌酸的生成想要請問部長這在臺灣是有技術的嗎可行性是有多少\n\n00:41.616 --> 01:00.516\n目前我們正在檢驗的那對於這個米香菌酸這一個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中但是培養的部分的話有一些還在進行因為培養需要時間比較長所以技術上面應該沒有太大的問題\n\n01:01.004 --> 01:20.282\n所以你們未來可能會做這件事情現在正在現在正在做這件事情好謝謝那再來就是我們駐日代表謝長廷先生建議說由這個小林製藥部分由國內進口業者一併呈報給小林製藥集體跟藥廠去做這個交涉比較容易達成這個求償的目的想要請問部長怎麼看\n\n01:22.122 --> 01:31.614\n這個部分也跟委員報告前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR國際衛生規範所設置的點\n\n01:39.884 --> 01:59.713\n那日本那邊已經他們的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫那要求我們收集這一些可能的一些案例的情況的話回報給他們目前我們正在做所以代表就是衛福部會出面也當作一個統籌的單位好謝謝部長再來\n\n02:02.469 --> 02:14.603\n部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔\n\n02:15.287 --> 02:41.749\n那我也看到食藥署在113年也就是今年針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品跟相關的產品加強的這個茶宴的品項是有一份清單共計是12項那其中日本的仙草莓也是加強茶宴對象請教部長會列在清單上是不是代表過去不管是不是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都是有許多的紀錄才會被列上這個專案清單\n\n02:44.486 --> 02:56.482\n跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單\n\n03:01.148 --> 03:26.137\n是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥\n\n03:27.737 --> 03:38.372\n結果你們在3月29日公告發布也就在今天4月1號愚人節當天實施我是想問說這樣子是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎?部長\n\n03:39.329 --> 04:04.986\n克帆派跟這個滅達勒這兩種農藥Codex的檢出標準就是零檢出就是不得檢出但是在日本交流協會提出申請後你們就趕緊開會讓他通過我想請問你們的通過科學依據何在因為過去你們都說Codex是國際上公認的標準但是曾幾何時為什麼這個日本交流協會好像比Codex還專業來要求我們就過\n\n04:06.121 --> 04:20.609\n而且2022年的時候因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標食藥署說因為涉及的牽涉的層級太高不會停止進口還被當時的這個部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當\n\n04:23.888 --> 04:48.795\n然後他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多就會開始逐批查驗嘛查到有超標就退運銷毀可是為什麼到了現在才不到才兩年的時間喔你們就退讓了部長這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎你們同時要開放日本的農藥殘留標準又同時說要加強邊境查驗你不會覺得這樣子的邏輯很矛盾然後很混亂嗎\n\n04:51.340 --> 05:12.492\n這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為同樣的一個產品這個草莓在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥所以我們就沒有這個殘餘的這個標準但是他讓你們開放了所以他依法他就可以來申請\n\n05:13.573 --> 05:37.210\n申請之後的話我們會經由這個專家會議來去做討論看看如果可以的話但是你們今天不就公告說這個事情就是對阿這已經討論過但是我想要提醒的是說我們食藥署究竟應該是要幫我們國人保障我們健康還是要幫日本賣草莓因為在Codex上面就是確切的說不得檢出喔那為什麼我們又要開放呢\n\n05:38.290 --> 05:55.637\n這個你看在美國它是有的所以也不是完全都按照Codex但是Codex也是過去我們常常說這是最廣的標準所以我們也許Codex並沒有收集到部長我要在這裡說的事情是因為國人的健康不應該是變成是政治利益的籌碼來談判\n\n05:57.638 --> 06:13.637\n所以CODAX既然它的標準尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求很嚴格為什麼我們要做這個時候而且匆匆忙忙就給它通過呢我認為這樣子是非常對國人的健康是非常不好的而且也是不負責任為國人把關健康的\n\n06:14.898 --> 06:30.556\n這個當然我們也有參考其他國家的標準像剛剛委員提到的客房派其實歐盟也有歐盟標準有我這個圖表上是很清楚沒有錯但是我說的就是Codex他就是說不得檢出我們Codex並不是我們參考唯一的標準\n\n06:31.357 --> 06:35.921\n那你們這樣子是不是也代表說有承受到一定的壓力所以你們必須這樣做因為我們本來也沒有說要開放嘛\n\n06:53.715 --> 07:12.610\n本來藏商就依法是可以來做申請申請之後我們本來就是依法部長我是想要提醒部長、署長我還是想要提醒國人的健康應該是在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的尤其是食安所以我想要告訴你從過去的經驗看起來\n\n07:13.150 --> 07:37.411\n你們就是感受到這種政治的壓力啊因為包含部長現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確的暗示美豬產品有食安風險同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對美牛跟及其產品的市場甚至還有希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的這個法律條文拿掉\n\n07:38.430 --> 08:01.200\n所以我想問對於這份報告美國貿易代表署的這份報告您有什麼態度而且部長有被AIT關切過這個議題嗎第一個你剛剛問的我沒有被關切到這個第二個這個可能有問題這一個報導因為我們國內從來沒有去規定來即的標示我們沒有這一個\n\n08:02.085 --> 08:10.680\n是對啊阿所以為什麼因為現在我們提案希望來季一定要標示上去阿我們就沒有阿現在沒有但是沒有的話美國為什麼會訴說要廢除\n\n08:12.608 --> 08:15.249\n這本來就是按照這個國際上的一個通例然後就是我們國內的這樣子的一個規範來進行\n\n08:34.600 --> 08:56.482\n所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來\n\n08:59.787 --> 09:23.902\n2019年的時候修正過這個通過過食安法明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬請教部長從寶林市食安事件開始到現在有沒有人在造謠部長因為這一次事件也已經造成兩人死亡國人非常擔憂而王必勝次長也速度開了記者會也包含透過臉書管道呼籲澄清希望不要造成國人恐慌\n\n09:24.682 --> 09:43.508\n而且部長因為第一例是在新北就醫所以新北市政府3月24日當天通報了中央跟臺北市政府臺北市政府也馬上稽查我想臺北跟中央都是同步掌握也是符合SOP那雙北政府也沒有人說因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗所以慢半拍對吧\n\n09:44.793 --> 10:04.768\n那部長當中央地方都忙著處理寶林的這個食安事件而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候卻有人造謠謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天到3月26號11點18分才接受到北市府的通報請問部長可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身份的關係可以豁免\n\n10:06.875 --> 10:32.022\n我想是否造謠這個還有待再去釐清不過整個的事情的一個前後的話大概都已經前後的這些時序的話是沒錯都已經公開對所以我沒有要怪部長我只想要說是否有改進的地方這個都可以進一步來做檢討我想要提醒的就是我們也看到食安急查人員剛剛我們陳吉輝委員有提到爆離職草\n\n10:33.502 --> 10:53.257\n而且包含直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不作更遑論其他的縣市而我們國人對於食安的要求期待甚高所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣的意思因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準而且我們也應該負責任的政府也應該積極而且更高標準的為他們把關\n\n10:54.491 --> 11:09.609\n所以國人對於這個所以包含現在辛苦這些稽查人員之外各別的政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣就會讓人家感覺有一句話叫做前線吃緊了後線緊吃所以我是想要告訴大家的事情是\n\n11:11.840 --> 11:24.514\n我們期待衛福部也能夠剛剛您講的很清楚時序都很清楚希望個別某些的執政黨立委不要到處散播謠言畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全而不是個人的政治利益\n\n11:26.284 --> 11:47.314\n這部分到這裡其實我還有一題主席我可以再問一下嗎時間差不多好最後我很盡速就是在2019年的時候有修正一個毒性跟關注化學物質管理法的第47條要明定這可能要跟這個我們的化學署長跟我們許主任有關\n\n11:48.683 --> 12:09.964\n明定說要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金我看到這個東西因為現在很久沒有這件事情到現在都沒有成立那因為這件事情又涉及到這種毒物而且這也是第一這個食安的源頭的管理喔所以我想要提醒你們這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作\n\n12:11.637 --> 12:35.241\n報告委員我們基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去那其實我們法公佈之後我們也積極在進行基金的籌備工作在103年我們也開始做這個跟業界的溝通但是很不巧是那時候有COVID-19的發生所以我們那個時候就先緩下來那麼最近我們有開始再來跟業界溝通來成立這個基金\n\n12:35.441 --> 12:35.661\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.327,"end":17.632,"text":"謝主席,有請我們薛部長。好,有請薛部長。"},{"start":22.133,"end":40.755,"text":"委員好學部長好部長首先先問你毒物專家建議我們政府培養這個糖瘡蒲伯克氏菌要避免米酵菌酸的生成想要請問部長這在臺灣是有技術的嗎可行性是有多少"},{"start":41.616,"end":60.516,"text":"目前我們正在檢驗的那對於這個米香菌酸這一個毒物的檢驗是正在進行當中但是培養的部分的話有一些還在進行因為培養需要時間比較長所以技術上面應該沒有太大的問題"},{"start":61.004,"end":80.282,"text":"所以你們未來可能會做這件事情現在正在現在正在做這件事情好 謝謝那再來就是我們駐日代表謝長廷先生建議說由這個小林製藥部分由國內進口業者一併呈報給小林製藥集體跟藥廠去做這個交涉比較容易達成這個求償的目的想要請問部長怎麼看"},{"start":82.122,"end":91.614,"text":"這個部分也跟委員報告前天日本方面已經透由CDC的IHR國際衛生規範所設置的點"},{"start":99.884,"end":119.713,"text":"那日本那邊已經他們的IHR已經跟我們這邊的IHR聯繫那要求我們收集這一些可能的一些案例的情況的話回報給他們目前我們正在做所以代表就是衛福部會出面也當作一個統籌的單位好 謝謝部長再來"},{"start":122.469,"end":134.603,"text":"部長我們那個日本的草莓農藥啊不斷的超標而我們邊境茶葉也多次攔下然後退運保障我們國人的食安我們在這裡要給予我們的這個邊境的茶葉人員給予肯定喔"},{"start":135.287,"end":161.749,"text":"那我也看到食藥署在113年也就是今年針對世界各國輸入臺灣的食品跟相關的產品加強的這個茶宴的品項是有一份清單共計是12項那其中日本的仙草莓也是加強茶宴對象請教部長會列在清單上是不是代表過去不管是不是農藥殘留或重金屬超標等等都是有許多的紀錄才會被列上這個專案清單"},{"start":164.486,"end":176.482,"text":"跟委員報告這情況大概是這樣同樣是草莓在國內種植的時候它也會用到某一些的農藥在日本也會用到某一些的農藥但是說農藥不一樣是等一下部長我只是想要問說這個列上這個清單"},{"start":181.148,"end":206.137,"text":"是不是代表過去的違規的紀錄比較多?被查驗到的紀錄比較多?這個不一定啦這個如果是加強查驗的品項的確是過去違規比較對嘛就是嘛好OK那部長但是你知道嗎就是食藥署在今年的1月24日就有預告因為日本交流協會的申請要放寬過去禁用的幾種農藥"},{"start":207.737,"end":218.372,"text":"結果你們在3月29日公告發布也就在今天4月1號愚人節當天實施我是想問說這樣子是要把全國百姓當愚人嗎?部長"},{"start":219.329,"end":244.986,"text":"克帆派跟這個滅達勒這兩種農藥Codex的檢出標準就是零檢出就是不得檢出但是在日本交流協會提出申請後你們就趕緊開會讓他通過我想請問你們的通過科學依據何在因為過去你們都說Codex是國際上公認的標準但是曾幾何時為什麼這個日本交流協會好像比Codex還專業來要求我們就過"},{"start":246.121,"end":260.609,"text":"而且2022年的時候因為日本的進口草莓不斷被驗出農藥超標食藥署說因為涉及的牽涉的層級太高不會停止進口還被當時的這個部長陳時中說這樣的說法不恰當"},{"start":263.888,"end":288.795,"text":"然後他說只要被驗出農藥超標批次比較多就會開始逐批查驗嘛查到有超標就退運銷毀可是為什麼到了現在才不到才兩年的時間喔你們就退讓了部長這是要送給全國人民的愚人節大禮嗎你們同時要開放日本的農藥殘留標準又同時說要加強邊境查驗你不會覺得這樣子的邏輯很矛盾然後很混亂嗎"},{"start":291.34,"end":312.492,"text":"這就是我剛剛跟委員報告的因為同樣的一個產品這個草莓在日本用的農藥跟在臺灣用的是不一樣因為臺灣沒有用日本所使用的農藥所以我們就沒有這個殘餘的這個標準但是他讓你們開放了所以他依法他就可以來申請"},{"start":313.573,"end":337.21,"text":"申請之後的話我們會經由這個專家會議來去做討論看看如果可以的話但是你們今天不就公告說這個事情就是對阿這已經討論過但是我想要提醒的是說我們食藥署究竟應該是要幫我們國人保障我們健康還是要幫日本賣草莓因為在Codex上面就是確切的說不得檢出喔那為什麼我們又要開放呢"},{"start":338.29,"end":355.637,"text":"這個你看在美國它是有的所以也不是完全都按照Codex但是Codex也是過去我們常常說這是最廣的標準所以我們也許Codex並沒有收集到部長我要在這裡說的事情是因為國人的健康不應該是變成是政治利益的籌碼來談判"},{"start":357.638,"end":373.637,"text":"所以CODAX既然它的標準尤其是我們國人對食安的標準也是很要求很嚴格為什麼我們要做這個時候而且匆匆忙忙就給它通過呢我認為這樣子是非常對國人的健康是非常不好的而且也是不負責任為國人把關健康的"},{"start":374.898,"end":390.556,"text":"這個當然我們也有參考其他國家的標準像剛剛委員提到的客房派其實歐盟也有歐盟標準有我這個圖表上是很清楚沒有錯但是我說的就是Codex他就是說不得檢出我們Codex並不是我們參考唯一的標準"},{"start":391.357,"end":395.921,"text":"那你們這樣子是不是也代表說有承受到一定的壓力所以你們必須這樣做因為我們本來也沒有說要開放嘛"},{"start":413.715,"end":432.61,"text":"本來藏商就依法是可以來做申請申請之後我們本來就是依法部長我是想要提醒部長、署長我還是想要提醒國人的健康應該是在所有的標準裡面應該是不容妥協的尤其是食安所以我想要告訴你從過去的經驗看起來"},{"start":433.15,"end":457.411,"text":"你們就是感受到這種政治的壓力啊因為包含部長現在美國貿易代表署也點名臺灣要求標示萊克多巴胺的殘留容許量是在不正確的暗示美豬產品有食安風險同時要繼續敦促臺灣全面開放對美牛跟及其產品的市場甚至還有希望我們把校園禁用基改食品的這個法律條文拿掉"},{"start":458.43,"end":481.2,"text":"所以我想問對於這份報告美國貿易代表署的這份報告您有什麼態度而且部長有被AIT關切過這個議題嗎第一個你剛剛問的我沒有被關切到這個第二個這個可能有問題這一個報導因為我們國內從來沒有去規定來即的標示我們沒有這一個"},{"start":482.085,"end":490.68,"text":"是對啊阿所以為什麼因為現在我們提案希望來季一定要標示上去阿我們就沒有阿現在沒有但是沒有的話美國為什麼會訴說要廢除"},{"start":492.608,"end":495.249,"text":"這本來就是按照這個國際上的一個通例然後就是我們國內的這樣子的一個規範來進行"},{"start":514.6,"end":536.482,"text":"所以我要告訴部長我覺得面對這樣子的國外的這個對於健康的施壓對於這樣子的貿易的施壓我們不能夠讓步好不好健康無價我們人民的健康不應該是被當成談判的首碼但是我們政府應該也要強烈的表達我們的立場對內積極強化食安的把關才可以贏得我們國人的信任那部長再來"},{"start":539.787,"end":563.902,"text":"2019年的時候修正過這個通過過食安法明定散布食安謠言可以罰百萬請教部長從寶林市食安事件開始到現在有沒有人在造謠部長因為這一次事件也已經造成兩人死亡國人非常擔憂而王必勝次長也速度開了記者會也包含透過臉書管道呼籲澄清希望不要造成國人恐慌"},{"start":564.682,"end":583.508,"text":"而且部長因為第一例是在新北就醫所以新北市政府3月24日當天通報了中央跟臺北市政府臺北市政府也馬上稽查我想臺北跟中央都是同步掌握也是符合SOP那雙北政府也沒有人說因此就說中央當天沒有派人檢驗所以慢半拍對吧"},{"start":584.793,"end":604.768,"text":"那部長當中央地方都忙著處理寶林的這個食安事件而且根本沒有慢半拍的時候卻有人造謠謊稱衛福部是慢了兩天到3月26號11點18分才接受到北市府的通報請問部長可以這樣子污名化盡忠職守的基層人員嗎這樣的造謠行為會不會因為身份的關係可以豁免"},{"start":606.875,"end":632.022,"text":"我想是否造謠這個還有待再去釐清不過整個的事情的一個前後的話大概都已經前後的這些時序的話是沒錯都已經公開對所以我沒有要怪部長我只想要說是否有改進的地方這個都可以進一步來做檢討我想要提醒的就是我們也看到食安急查人員剛剛我們陳吉輝委員有提到爆離職草"},{"start":633.502,"end":653.257,"text":"而且包含直轄市臺北的稽查科都有36%的人員不作更遑論其他的縣市而我們國人對於食安的要求期待甚高所以前面那兩題從國外來的也是一樣的意思因為我們國人對食安要求是很高標準而且我們也應該負責任的政府也應該積極而且更高標準的為他們把關"},{"start":654.491,"end":669.609,"text":"所以國人對於這個所以包含現在辛苦這些稽查人員之外各別的政治人物打擊我們基層稽查人員的士氣就會讓人家感覺有一句話叫做前線吃緊了後線緊吃所以我是想要告訴大家的事情是"},{"start":671.84,"end":684.514,"text":"我們期待衛福部也能夠剛剛您講的很清楚時序都很清楚希望個別某些的執政黨立委不要到處散播謠言畢竟人民關心的應該是食品的安全而不是個人的政治利益"},{"start":686.284,"end":707.314,"text":"這部分到這裡其實我還有一題主席我可以再問一下嗎時間差不多好最後 我很盡速就是在2019年的時候有修正一個毒性跟關注化學物質管理法的第47條要明定這可能要跟這個我們的化學署長跟我們許主任有關"},{"start":708.683,"end":729.964,"text":"明定說要成立毒物及化學物質管理基金我看到這個東西因為現在很久沒有這件事情到現在都沒有成立那因為這件事情又涉及到這種毒物而且這也是第一這個食安的源頭的管理喔所以我想要提醒你們這件事情現在進度到底到哪裡你們為什麼被卡了這麼久都沒有動作"},{"start":731.637,"end":755.241,"text":"報告委員我們基金的成立是在108年修法的時候把它放到法規裡面去那其實我們法公佈之後我們也積極在進行基金的籌備工作在103年我們也開始做這個跟業界的溝通但是很不巧是那時候有COVID-19的發生所以我們那個時候就先緩下來那麼最近我們有開始再來跟業界溝通來成立這個基金"},{"start":755.441,"end":755.661,"text":"主席"}]}}}}