{"id":150713,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150713","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0c1b467c14e1555cc25a2f6254cf3c732f8ba9b0039caa7a6d3278c9c8236d1465ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:01:12 - 10:15:18","影片長度":"00:14:06","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":846,"end_time":"2024-04-01T10:15:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T10:01:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":511,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時1分）好，謝謝主席，我們是不是請薛部長？"],["主席：有請薛部長。"],["王委員育敏：還有經濟部商業發展署的副署長也一起上來。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好，部長，有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件，到目前為止，追查不出真正的來源是什麼，那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題？部長可不可以向國人承諾，你大概多久可以追查出這整個事情的脈絡？因為現在大家真的都很焦慮，剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條，現在對這整個事件發生的原因要回去溯源，到底還要花多久的時間可以溯源出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，目前就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉，把不對的原因排除掉，但是到現在為止，我們還是鎖定就是只有在這一家裡面，而且這些病患共同有食用的就是粿條，所以原因應該還是在這裡。至於這是怎麼樣去發生的，這個要調查，那這個調查不是那麼容易。"],["王委員育敏：那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石出？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個沒有辦法給時間……"],["王委員育敏：沒有辦法給時間？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，因為現在就是一樣一樣去排除。"],["王委員育敏：請問你們現在調查的速度，你們是多麼的積極？有組成一個專家或是毒物小組還有鑑定小組嗎？你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前大概是兩個方面，一方面是檢調的司法調查，他們所調查的就是可疑的這些人……"],["王委員育敏：是不是犯罪的部分嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：那食物的部分呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：關於食物的部分，我們目前已經蒐集的，包括在寶林茶室這一家裡面所蒐到的這些剩餘的檢體，我們全部都已經驗完了，並沒有發現有米酵菌酸，沒有這個東西。另外，在源頭的供應商大粄城所蒐集到的，也沒有驗出來，在饒河街那邊用餐的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有，所以目前仍然是在A13的寶林茶室這裡。至於這中間是怎麼樣去產生的，這個還是如同我剛剛講的，就是要進一步調查，但是從這樣的現象來看，其實民眾也不必太過恐慌，因為這種粿仔條並不是很少見的，其實是一個很常見的食材，可是在各地並沒有發生這種類似的案件，所以一般來講是不用太過恐慌，因為這個不是什麼傳染病。"],["王委員育敏：所以民眾可以安心吃嗎？學校也可以不用禁嗎？在原因還沒有查出來之前，學校也可以不用禁嗎？民眾可以安心吃嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：大致上風險並不是有那麼高。"],["王委員育敏：所以部長覺得風險不高。"],["薛部長瑞元：風險不高。"],["王委員育敏：因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮，我希望衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因造成的。第二個就是這次我們看到百貨商場的監理機制出現問題，像這一種已經快要到期的，就是要結束營業了，但是這家店的保險竟然沒有續保，關於百貨商場保險這個部分，請問經濟部商業發展署，這一塊是屬於你們應該去管理的範圍嗎？"],["劉副署長雅娟：跟委員報告，關於百貨商場的保險，目前大概是各地方政府如果有依消費者保護法訂定這種特定消費場所的保險，他會依各地方政府的法規去做保險，有關於餐飲業的部分，其實食安法裡面有要求要投保產品責任保險，那這一塊就是依食安法來做。"],["王委員育敏：那主管機關是你們還是衛福部？"],["劉副署長雅娟：食安法的部分是衛福部。"],["王委員育敏：所以還是衛福部管，管真大。好，那我就要問部長，因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任險跟產品責任險，那現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保，那未來衛福部應該要怎麼樣去確保這些食品業者在產品責任險的部分應保就都一定要加保，而沒有這一種漏網之魚？這一次臺北市去稽查時也發現還有在不同百貨公司的別家業者也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險，這一塊你們未來要怎麼管理？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果應該投保而沒有投保，那這個部分當然依法是可以罰3萬到300萬，不過有關於公共意外險的這個部分，可能就不是衛福部這邊的……"],["王委員育敏：你們是產品責任險嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：我們是產品責任險。"],["王委員育敏：但是產品責任險一定都要保嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，所以未來對這個部分我已經有交代我們食藥署，在它「非登不可」的這個系統裡面要加上產品責任險是在什麼時候到期，然後我們希望這個系統能夠在到期前一個月就跳出警示，讓地方政府可以發現已經快到期了，要趕快去追。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望將來應該是要雙軌制，一個就是你們自己可以透過建置這個系統就知道在什麼時候到期，而且有警示，比照汽車強制責任險，就是要做到這樣的程度。第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度，我們發現百貨公司對業者收租金、抽成都很高，都是一到兩成，但是好像都不關他的事，可是在這裡面就是出了事情，業者也是你引進來的，那你應該也要負起相對的督導責任，如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話，事實上他是可以做得到的，因為每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約，對每一個櫃位每天百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢，對於這一種即將要到期的，他其實也老早就知道誰要撤櫃、要換人了，所以我希望可以去強化百貨公司跟商場這些管理者的責任，對這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做。","另外一個比較重要的是小林紅麴這個部分，就是小林製藥進來的紅麴，我要問一下，你現在說有226種產品下架，那是不是市面上現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在是只有用到小林紅麴原料的產品才需要，跟委員報告，日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西……"],["王委員育敏：他們不是說是軟毛青黴酸嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：那只是一個推測，但是目前還沒確定。"],["王委員育敏：還不知道成分是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品，包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來，臺酒也有生產紅麴產品，那我們怎麼確保？我們向來認為日本在藥品、食安方面是相對嚴格的國家，但是他們的紅麴產品出了這個問題，我要問部長，我們臺灣像臺酒還有其他廠牌的產品沒有用到小林製藥的紅麴原料，你怎麼確保用其他原料的產品沒有產生同樣的問題、都是安全的？你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：以目前來講的話，已知可能會有傷人體然後可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的，我們都有要求他們在上市前就要做檢驗，平常的時候也可以自我檢驗、自主檢驗，這中間比較有名的就是橘黴素。"],["王委員育敏：但是這次不是橘黴素。"],["薛部長瑞元：看起來不是。"],["王委員育敏：對啊！所以我的問題就在這邊，就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的，我剛剛說可能是軟毛青黴酸，你說還沒有確定。"],["薛部長瑞元：還沒有確定。"],["王委員育敏：如果日方是這樣子的話，我們怎麼確保我們臺灣的這些產品都是安全的？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個用公共衛生的方式先去做分析，也就是說，如果國內國人食用紅麴的相關產品，不管它是日本來的還是臺灣自己製造的，看看有沒有這些不適的通報……"],["王委員育敏：那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎？還是統統都是小林製藥的？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前是有6件通報，是跟……"],["王委員育敏：剛剛消保處說18件。"],["薛部長瑞元：那是申訴啦！"],["王委員育敏：申訴。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：你們不良的是6件？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["王委員育敏：那6件統統都是小林製藥的？還是有來自別的廠牌？"],["薛部長瑞元：都跟這個有關。"],["王委員育敏：跟小林製藥是完全有關的？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，就是它的原料到國內，然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關。"],["王委員育敏：好。這次其實有民眾抱怨說，他是選小綠人標章，但是有小綠人標章，他依然洗腎，小綠人標章是我們食藥署核發的健康食品標章，而且你們現在是兩類，一種是個案認證，一種是規格標章審查，你這次紅麴的個案認證有9家，這9家當中有1家還是出了問題，規格標章審查就只是書審，就是更鬆了，所以這次小林製藥進來的有很多是不是都是規格標章審查，都是書審而已？因為進用的是日本的原料，你們根本沒有再加驗過，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：是不是請……"],["王委員育敏：好，署長你說。"],["吳署長秀梅：報告委員，我們確實是有雙軌的制度，有一軌就是他要檢具所有他檢驗的……"],["王委員育敏：就是個案審查嘛。"],["吳署長秀梅：對，如果是第二軌，像魚油跟紅麴就是屬於它的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的，其實就可以審定。"],["王委員育敏：所以這次下架的226種產品，多數其實都是屬於書審、規格標章審查，都不是個案審查？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求它必須要做的檢驗，他們一樣要執行。"],["王委員育敏：但是像這樣子，民眾就說，我都專門買小綠人了，結果還是出問題，有一個個案說，他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況，這種情況要怎麼辦？他要怎麼求償？另外，我要問你的是賠償的問題，剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥請求賠償，有一些是進口原料進來，在臺灣生產、重新製造的，這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這就要回到消保法的規定了，有一些是會有連帶責任。"],["王委員育敏：請消保處處長上來一下。因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理，就是說他買來吃，結果他吃了有問題，現在你說要等日本那邊，但是其實有一些不是直接進口藥品進來，而是進口原料進來，然後再變成產品，像這一類，他不能跟臺灣的廠商求償嗎？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：跟委員報告，在我們的消保法裡面，就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任，經銷商也是一樣要對他們經銷的一些成果，也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任。"],["王委員育敏：所以臺灣的廠商也應該要負責嘛！我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求償？我們現在的機制是什麼？政府可以協助他們做什麼、提供什麼幫助？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：如果消費者對這個部分有問題，我們申訴其實有3個管道，可以直接跟企業經營者，也可以跟消保團體，也可以跟我們地方政府的消服中心，也就是消保官他們那邊會處理，還有主管機關，申訴了如果沒有辦法妥處的話，我們就可以進到消保官這邊調解，如果還是不行的話，我們可能就會進入到訴訟，超過20人以上，我們就可以協助、協商消保團體提起團體訴訟。"],["王委員育敏：我在這邊要要求衛福部跟消保處，這次小林製藥所衍生的這個問題，必須用一個專案來協助這些受害者，我很擔心的是現在不只這6例，也不只這18件，陸陸續續還會有，因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大，一些有高血脂問題的人可能都希望吃這個產品，他以為吃了很健康，結果現在成分有問題，變成他的腎功能開始出現問題。所以我要求衛福部跟消保處，應該要用一個專案好好來受理這些受害者的陳情，而且必須協助他的整個過程、他的整個法律訴訟的過程，中央政府也要有責任，不是都是只有地方政府，中央跟地方政府要作為我們這些受害的消費者最大的後盾，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個當然是沒有問題，不過，現在案件還在累積當中，而且這個根源到底是什麼東西引起的，目前還不是很清楚。"],["王委員育敏：我知道，但你們要先準備好。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，大概就是先累積個案，我們再來做分析。"],["王委員育敏：好，應該全力協助這些受害的消費者，他們也是非常冤枉，買小綠人，然後吃到最後要洗腎的問題，這的確是政府也要負起一定的責任，以上，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：現在請蘇清泉委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","劉建國","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","盧縣一","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","楊曜","羅智強","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","李坤城","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳瑩","李彥秀","王鴻薇","徐富癸","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有\n限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150713","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150713","tool":"pyannote","id":"150713-pyannote"},"job_id":"CXdd6ak5dyl21JSO","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"end\": 531.158, \"text\": \"所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 513.069, \"end\": 513.169, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 513.169, \"end\": 513.249, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 513.249, \"end\": 513.369, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 513.369, \"end\": 513.589, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 513.589, \"end\": 513.709, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 513.709, \"end\": 514.23, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 514.23, \"end\": 514.47, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 514.47, \"end\": 514.67, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 514.67, \"end\": 514.87, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 514.87, \"end\": 515.03, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"本\", 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\"start\": 837.413, \"end\": 837.814, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 837.814, \"end\": 838.114, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"腎\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 838.114, \"end\": 838.354, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"洗\", \"start\": 838.354, \"end\": 838.754, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"腎\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 838.754, \"end\": 839.595, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 839.595, \"end\": 839.955, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 839.955, \"end\": 840.456, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 840.456, \"end\": 840.656, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 840.656, \"end\": 840.776, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 840.776, \"end\": 840.956, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 840.956, \"end\": 841.116, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 841.116, \"end\": 841.216, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 841.216, \"end\": 841.296, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 841.296, \"end\": 841.436, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 841.436, \"end\": 841.796, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 841.796, \"end\": 842.037, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 842.037, \"end\": 842.497, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 842.497, \"end\": 842.597, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 842.597, \"end\": 842.717, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 842.717, \"end\": 842.737, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:21,956\n請王育敏委員好謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長有請薛部長還有經濟部商業發展所副署長一起上來委員好\n\n2\n00:00:24,404 --> 00:00:48,600\n部長好部長有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件到目前為止追查不出這個真正的來源是什麼那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題部長可不可以承諾國人你大概多久可以追查出這個整個事情的脈絡因為現在真的大家都很焦慮剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條\n\n3\n00:00:49,601 --> 00:00:56,940\n但是這到底整個事件發生的原因現在回去溯源到底還要花多久時間可以溯源出來\n\n4\n00:00:58,618 --> 00:01:21,278\n跟委員報告目前的話就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉這個原因把它排除掉但是到現在為止的話我們還是鎖定就是說只有在這一家裡面而且共同這一些病患他共同有實用的就是果條\n\n5\n00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:35,975\n所以原因應該還是在這裡至於說他怎麼樣去發聲的這個要調查那這個調查不是那麼容易那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石起沒有辦法給時間因為他現在\n\n6\n00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:59,481\n請問你們現在調查的速度你們是多麼的積極有多麼的組成一個專家或是獨務小組還有鑑定小組你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事情目前大概有兩個方面一方面的話是檢調司法調查他所調查的就是有可疑的這些人\n\n7\n00:01:59,881 --> 00:02:27,516\n是不是犯罪的部分嗎那食物的部分呢那食物的部分的話我們是一直就是說目前的話就已經收集的包括是在寶林茶室的這一家裡面所收到的剩餘的這些檢體我們都已經全部都已經驗完了那並沒有發現說有這個米酵菌酸沒有這個東西那另外的話就是在源頭的供應商大阪城\n\n8\n00:02:28,476 --> 00:02:42,898\n那邊收集到的也沒有那在饒河街那邊的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有所以目前還是仍然是在這個寶林茶室就是說A13的這裡\n\n9\n00:02:44,299 --> 00:03:05,840\n至於說這中間的話怎麼樣去產生的這個還是如同我剛剛講就是說要進一步的調查但是從這樣子的一個現象來看的話其實民眾也不必太過恐慌因為同樣的這種粿仔條它並不是很少見的其實是很常見的一個食材\n\n10\n00:03:07,461 --> 00:03:13,687\n所以民眾可以安心吃嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?民眾可以安心吃嗎?在原因還沒有查出來之前\n\n11\n00:03:27,413 --> 00:03:53,572\n大致上並不會有就是說並不是有那麼風險所以部長覺得風險不高因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮我希望這個衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因所造成的第二個就是這一次我們看到在百貨商場的監理機制是出現問題的這一種已經快要到期的就是他結束營業但是他的保險竟然沒有續保這個部分經濟部這個商業發展署這一塊是屬於你們\n\n12\n00:03:57,194 --> 00:04:23,833\n應該去管理的範圍嗎跟委員報告百貨商場保險的部分百貨商場的保險它目前的話大概是各地方政府如果它有依消費者保護法有定這種特定消費場所的保險的話它會依各地方政府的法規去做保險那有關於餐飲業的部分這個部分其實食安法裡面有要求要投保就是產品責任保險那這一塊的話就是依食安法的部分來的\n\n13\n00:04:23,993 --> 00:04:38,788\n那主管機關是誰?是你們還是衛福部?食安法的部分是衛福部所以還是衛福部管?管政大?好來那我就要問那個部長因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任選跟產品責任選\n\n14\n00:04:39,349 --> 00:05:07,510\n那他現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保那未來這個整個衛福部應該怎麼樣去確保就是這一些食品業者他在這個產品責任險的部分應保都一定要加保而沒有這種漏網之魚這一次臺北市去稽查也發現其中還有別家的這個業者就是在不同的百貨公司也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險這塊你們未來要怎麼管理\n\n15\n00:05:07,970 --> 00:05:28,739\n那這一個部分的話當然依法是可以罰三百萬如果說應該加保而沒有應該投保而沒有投保的不過有關於公共意外險的這一個部分的話可能就不是衛福部這邊的你們是產品責任險嗎我們是產品責任險但是產品責任險一定都要保嗎對\n\n16\n00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:46,987\n那所以說未來這部分的話我已經有交代我們食藥署那在他的非登不可的這個系統裡面要加上這個產品責任選的什麼時候到期然後我們希望這個系統能夠在\n\n17\n00:05:47,847 --> 00:05:50,749\n我希望這個將來應該是要雙軌制一個就是說你們自己的這個可以透過這個建制的系統就知道說他什麼時候到期而且有警示這個比照\n\n18\n00:06:07,641 --> 00:06:35,029\n汽車強制責任險的一樣就是要做到這樣的一個程度第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度我們發現百貨公司裡面他收業者這一個收這個租金抽成都很高都一到兩成但是好像都不關他的事在這裡面就是出了事情業者也是你引進來的那你應該也要負起相對的這個督導的責任如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話事實上他是可以做得到的\n\n19\n00:06:35,549 --> 00:07:00,606\n他每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約每一個櫃位他每天都有百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢那對於這一種即將要到期的他其實也知道老早就知道誰要撤櫃了要換人了所以我希望可以去強化這個百貨公司跟商場的這些管理者的責任這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做另外一個比較重要的是那個小林紅麴的這一個部分就是小林製藥進來的這個紅麴\n\n20\n00:07:03,288 --> 00:07:30,769\n我要問一下你現在說你有226種產品下架那是不是市面上的現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題現在是只有用到這個小林紅麴的這個原料的才需要因為目前跟我們報告日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西他們不是說是染毛青霉酸嗎那只是一個推測但目前的話還不知道成分是什麼對\n\n21\n00:07:32,895 --> 00:07:37,840\n我在想我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來臺酒也有生產紅麴產品那我們怎麼確保日本現在是讓我們視為他們在藥品食安方面是相對嚴格的國家如果那個紅麴產品出了這個問題我要問部長的是你怎麼確保包括我們臺灣像臺酒還有我們其他廠牌的\n\n22\n00:07:57,077 --> 00:08:05,628\n沒有用到小林製藥原料你怎麼確保我們自己他從其他原料的他沒有產生同樣的問題他都是安全的你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎\n\n23\n00:08:07,579 --> 00:08:31,549\n目前來講的話已知的可能會有傷人體然後是可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的我們都有要求他們要上市前就要做檢驗那平常的時候也可以自我檢驗自主檢驗那這中間比較有名的叫菊梅樹但這次不是菊梅樹這次看起來不是\n\n24\n00:08:33,069 --> 00:08:51,158\n所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦\n\n25\n00:08:51,678 --> 00:09:19,806\n那也就是說如果這一個國內國人使用這一個紅麴的相關的產品的話不管它是日本來的還是台灣自己製造的那看看有沒有這一些不是的一些通報那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎還是通通都是小林製藥的目前是有6件6件的通報是跟剛剛蕭寶書說18件\n\n26\n00:09:22,839 --> 00:09:39,513\n那是申訴啦喔申訴那你們不兩的是六件那六件通通都是小林製藥的還是有來自別的廠房都跟這一個有關跟小林製藥的是完全有關的對就是他的原料到國內然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關\n\n27\n00:09:40,214 --> 00:09:57,940\n好那這一次其實有民眾他就抱怨說其實他是選小綠人標章但小綠人標章依然喜勝小綠人標章是我們自己這個食藥署去核發的健康食品而且你現在還兩類一種是個案認證一種是規格標章審查你這次紅麴的個案認證有九家這九家有一家還是出了問題那規格\n\n28\n00:10:05,883 --> 00:10:05,903\n蘇長你說\n\n29\n00:10:27,541 --> 00:10:45,340\n報告委員我們確實是有雙軌的制度那有一軌就是他要檢據所有的一些他檢驗的就是個案審查嗎對那如果是第二軌的他像精油那個魚油跟紅麴就是屬於他的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的其實就可以審定\n\n30\n00:10:46,241 --> 00:11:02,236\n所以你這一次下架的226種產品多數其實都是屬於書審嘛規格標章審查嘛都不是個案審查但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求的他必須要做的檢驗他們一樣要執行但像這樣子民眾就說我都專門買小綠人了結果還是出問題\n\n31\n00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:32,555\n有一個個案說他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況那這種情況怎麼辦他要怎麼賠償另外一個我要問你是賠償的問題剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥賠償那有一些他是進原料進來在臺灣生產重新製造的這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎這就要回到消保法的規定了那這個有一些是會有連帶責任的那個消保處處長你上來一下\n\n32\n00:11:35,387 --> 00:12:00,525\n因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理就是說所有發生他買來吃結果他吃了有問題現在你說要等這個日本那邊但是其實有一些他不是直接進口藥品進來他是原料進來他自己再變成產品的這一類他不能跟臺灣求償嗎臺灣的廠商求償嗎跟委員報告在我們的消保法裡面就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任的那經銷商也是一樣要針對他們的這個\n\n33\n00:12:02,846 --> 00:12:21,284\n就是經銷的一些成果也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任所以臺灣的廠商應該要負責嘛那我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求廠這是我們現在機制是什麼我們政府可以協助他們做什麼提供幫忙就是說如果消費者對這個部分有問題可以我們申訴其實有三個管道可以直接跟企業經營者\n\n34\n00:12:22,085 --> 00:12:22,285\n蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴\n\n35\n00:12:42,398 --> 00:12:47,900\n我在這邊我要要求衛福部跟消保處這一次的這個小林製藥說所衍生的這個問題必須是用一個專案來協助這些受害者我很擔心的是現在不只這6例也不只這18件陸陸續續還會有\n\n36\n00:12:58,243 --> 00:13:09,827\n因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大然後有一些這個高血脂問題的人他可能都希望吃這個他以為是吃了很健康結果現在成分有問題變成他的腎功能開始出現問題所以我要求衛福部跟消保署應該是要用一個專案\n\n37\n00:13:16,590 --> 00:13:32,773\n然後好好的來受理這一些受害者他的陳情而且必須協助他整個過程他的這個整個法律訴訟的過程應該政府中央政府要責任不是都是這個地方政府中央跟地方政府要作為我們這一些受害的消費者最大的後盾可以嗎\n\n38\n00:13:34,718 --> 00:14:02,737\n當然這個是沒有問題不過現在案件還在累積當中而且這一個根源的到底是什麼東西引起這目前還不是很清楚我知道但你們要先準備好對大概就先累積個案那我們再來做分析啦好應該要全力協助這些受害的消費者他們也是非常的冤枉蠻小綠人然後吃到這個最後腎要洗腎的問題這個的確是政府要負起一定的責任好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11460\t21956\t請王育敏委員好 謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長有請薛部長還有經濟部商業發展所副署長一起上來委員好\n24404\t48600\t部長好部長有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件到目前為止追查不出這個真正的來源是什麼那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題部長可不可以承諾國人你大概多久可以追查出這個整個事情的脈絡因為現在真的大家都很焦慮剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條\n49601\t56940\t但是這到底整個事件發生的原因現在回去溯源到底還要花多久時間可以溯源出來\n58618\t81278\t跟委員報告目前的話就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉這個原因把它排除掉但是到現在為止的話我們還是鎖定就是說只有在這一家裡面而且共同這一些病患他共同有實用的就是果條\n83960\t95975\t所以原因應該還是在這裡至於說他怎麼樣去發聲的這個要調查那這個調查不是那麼容易那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石起沒有辦法給時間因為他現在\n99680\t119481\t請問你們現在調查的速度你們是多麼的積極有多麼的組成一個專家或是獨務小組還有鑑定小組你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事情目前大概有兩個方面一方面的話是檢調司法調查他所調查的就是有可疑的這些人\n119881\t147516\t是不是犯罪的部分嗎那食物的部分呢那食物的部分的話我們是一直就是說目前的話就已經收集的包括是在寶林茶室的這一家裡面所收到的剩餘的這些檢體我們都已經全部都已經驗完了那並沒有發現說有這個米酵菌酸沒有這個東西那另外的話就是在源頭的供應商大阪城\n148476\t162898\t那邊收集到的也沒有那在饒河街那邊的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有所以目前還是仍然是在這個寶林茶室就是說A13的這裡\n164299\t185840\t至於說這中間的話怎麼樣去產生的這個還是如同我剛剛講就是說要進一步的調查但是從這樣子的一個現象來看的話其實民眾也不必太過恐慌因為同樣的這種粿仔條它並不是很少見的其實是很常見的一個食材\n187461\t193687\t所以民眾可以安心吃嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?民眾可以安心吃嗎?在原因還沒有查出來之前\n207413\t233572\t大致上並不會有就是說並不是有那麼風險所以部長覺得風險不高因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮我希望這個衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因所造成的第二個就是這一次我們看到在百貨商場的監理機制是出現問題的這一種已經快要到期的就是他結束營業但是他的保險竟然沒有續保這個部分經濟部這個商業發展署這一塊是屬於你們\n237194\t263833\t應該去管理的範圍嗎跟委員報告百貨商場保險的部分百貨商場的保險它目前的話大概是各地方政府如果它有依消費者保護法有定這種特定消費場所的保險的話它會依各地方政府的法規去做保險那有關於餐飲業的部分這個部分其實食安法裡面有要求要投保就是產品責任保險那這一塊的話就是依食安法的部分來的\n263993\t278788\t那主管機關是誰?是你們還是衛福部?食安法的部分是衛福部所以還是衛福部管?管政大?好來那我就要問那個部長因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任選跟產品責任選\n279349\t307510\t那他現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保那未來這個整個衛福部應該怎麼樣去確保就是這一些食品業者他在這個產品責任險的部分應保都一定要加保而沒有這種漏網之魚這一次臺北市去稽查也發現其中還有別家的這個業者就是在不同的百貨公司也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險這塊你們未來要怎麼管理\n307970\t328739\t那這一個部分的話當然依法是可以罰三百萬如果說應該加保而沒有應該投保而沒有投保的不過有關於公共意外險的這一個部分的話可能就不是衛福部這邊的你們是產品責任險嗎我們是產品責任險但是產品責任險一定都要保嗎對\n329759\t346987\t那所以說未來這部分的話我已經有交代我們食藥署那在他的非登不可的這個系統裡面要加上這個產品責任選的什麼時候到期然後我們希望這個系統能夠在\n347847\t350749\t我希望這個將來應該是要雙軌制一個就是說你們自己的這個可以透過這個建制的系統就知道說他什麼時候到期而且有警示這個比照\n367641\t395029\t汽車強制責任險的一樣就是要做到這樣的一個程度第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度我們發現百貨公司裡面他收業者這一個收這個租金抽成都很高都一到兩成但是好像都不關他的事在這裡面就是出了事情業者也是你引進來的那你應該也要負起相對的這個督導的責任如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話事實上他是可以做得到的\n395549\t420606\t他每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約每一個櫃位他每天都有百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢那對於這一種即將要到期的他其實也知道老早就知道誰要撤櫃了要換人了所以我希望可以去強化這個百貨公司跟商場的這些管理者的責任這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做另外一個比較重要的是那個小林紅麴的這一個部分就是小林製藥進來的這個紅麴\n423288\t450769\t我要問一下你現在說你有226種產品下架那是不是市面上的現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題現在是只有用到這個小林紅麴的這個原料的才需要因為目前跟我們報告日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西他們不是說是染毛青霉酸嗎那只是一個推測但目前的話還不知道成分是什麼對\n452895\t457840\t我在想我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來臺酒也有生產紅麴產品那我們怎麼確保日本現在是讓我們視為他們在藥品食安方面是相對嚴格的國家如果那個紅麴產品出了這個問題我要問部長的是你怎麼確保包括我們臺灣像臺酒還有我們其他廠牌的\n477077\t485628\t沒有用到小林製藥原料你怎麼確保我們自己他從其他原料的他沒有產生同樣的問題他都是安全的你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎\n487579\t511549\t目前來講的話已知的可能會有傷人體然後是可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的我們都有要求他們要上市前就要做檢驗那平常的時候也可以自我檢驗自主檢驗那這中間比較有名的叫菊梅樹但這次不是菊梅樹這次看起來不是\n513069\t531158\t所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦\n531678\t559806\t那也就是說如果這一個國內國人使用這一個紅麴的相關的產品的話不管它是日本來的還是台灣自己製造的那看看有沒有這一些不是的一些通報那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎還是通通都是小林製藥的目前是有6件6件的通報是跟剛剛蕭寶書說18件\n562839\t579513\t那是申訴啦喔申訴那你們不兩的是六件那六件通通都是小林製藥的還是有來自別的廠房都跟這一個有關跟小林製藥的是完全有關的對就是他的原料到國內然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關\n580214\t597940\t好那這一次其實有民眾他就抱怨說其實他是選小綠人標章但小綠人標章依然喜勝小綠人標章是我們自己這個食藥署去核發的健康食品而且你現在還兩類一種是個案認證一種是規格標章審查你這次紅麴的個案認證有九家這九家有一家還是出了問題那規格\n605883\t605903\t蘇長你說\n627541\t645340\t報告委員我們確實是有雙軌的制度那有一軌就是他要檢據所有的一些他檢驗的就是個案審查嗎對那如果是第二軌的他像精油那個魚油跟紅麴就是屬於他的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的其實就可以審定\n646241\t662236\t所以你這一次下架的226種產品多數其實都是屬於書審嘛規格標章審查嘛都不是個案審查但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求的他必須要做的檢驗他們一樣要執行但像這樣子民眾就說我都專門買小綠人了結果還是出問題\n665519\t692555\t有一個個案說他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況那這種情況怎麼辦他要怎麼賠償另外一個我要問你是賠償的問題剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥賠償那有一些他是進原料進來在臺灣生產重新製造的這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎這就要回到消保法的規定了那這個有一些是會有連帶責任的那個消保處處長你上來一下\n695387\t720525\t因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理就是說所有發生他買來吃結果他吃了有問題現在你說要等這個日本那邊但是其實有一些他不是直接進口藥品進來他是原料進來他自己再變成產品的這一類他不能跟臺灣求償嗎臺灣的廠商求償嗎跟委員報告在我們的消保法裡面就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任的那經銷商也是一樣要針對他們的這個\n722846\t741284\t就是經銷的一些成果也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任所以臺灣的廠商應該要負責嘛那我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求廠這是我們現在機制是什麼我們政府可以協助他們做什麼提供幫忙就是說如果消費者對這個部分有問題可以我們申訴其實有三個管道可以直接跟企業經營者\n742085\t742285\t蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴\n762398\t767900\t我在這邊我要要求衛福部跟消保處這一次的這個小林製藥說所衍生的這個問題必須是用一個專案來協助這些受害者我很擔心的是現在不只這6例也不只這18件陸陸續續還會有\n778243\t789827\t因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大然後有一些這個高血脂問題的人他可能都希望吃這個他以為是吃了很健康結果現在成分有問題變成他的腎功能開始出現問題所以我要求衛福部跟消保署應該是要用一個專案\n796590\t812773\t然後好好的來受理這一些受害者他的陳情而且必須協助他整個過程他的這個整個法律訴訟的過程應該政府中央政府要責任不是都是這個地方政府中央跟地方政府要作為我們這一些受害的消費者最大的後盾可以嗎\n814718\t842737\t當然這個是沒有問題不過現在案件還在累積當中而且這一個根源的到底是什麼東西引起這目前還不是很清楚我知道但你們要先準備好對大概就先累積個案那我們再來做分析啦好應該要全力協助這些受害的消費者他們也是非常的冤枉蠻小綠人然後吃到這個最後腎要洗腎的問題這個的確是政府要負起一定的責任好以上謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"請王育敏委員好 謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長有請薛部長還有經濟部商業發展所副署長一起上來委員好\n部長好部長有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件到目前為止追查不出這個真正的來源是什麼那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題部長可不可以承諾國人你大概多久可以追查出這個整個事情的脈絡因為現在真的大家都很焦慮剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條\n但是這到底整個事件發生的原因現在回去溯源到底還要花多久時間可以溯源出來\n跟委員報告目前的話就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉這個原因把它排除掉但是到現在為止的話我們還是鎖定就是說只有在這一家裡面而且共同這一些病患他共同有實用的就是果條\n所以原因應該還是在這裡至於說他怎麼樣去發聲的這個要調查那這個調查不是那麼容易那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石起沒有辦法給時間因為他現在\n請問你們現在調查的速度你們是多麼的積極有多麼的組成一個專家或是獨務小組還有鑑定小組你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事情目前大概有兩個方面一方面的話是檢調司法調查他所調查的就是有可疑的這些人\n是不是犯罪的部分嗎那食物的部分呢那食物的部分的話我們是一直就是說目前的話就已經收集的包括是在寶林茶室的這一家裡面所收到的剩餘的這些檢體我們都已經全部都已經驗完了那並沒有發現說有這個米酵菌酸沒有這個東西那另外的話就是在源頭的供應商大阪城\n那邊收集到的也沒有那在饒河街那邊的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有所以目前還是仍然是在這個寶林茶室就是說A13的這裡\n至於說這中間的話怎麼樣去產生的這個還是如同我剛剛講就是說要進一步的調查但是從這樣子的一個現象來看的話其實民眾也不必太過恐慌因為同樣的這種粿仔條它並不是很少見的其實是很常見的一個食材\n所以民眾可以安心吃嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?民眾可以安心吃嗎?在原因還沒有查出來之前\n大致上並不會有就是說並不是有那麼風險所以部長覺得風險不高因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮我希望這個衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因所造成的第二個就是這一次我們看到在百貨商場的監理機制是出現問題的這一種已經快要到期的就是他結束營業但是他的保險竟然沒有續保這個部分經濟部這個商業發展署這一塊是屬於你們\n應該去管理的範圍嗎跟委員報告百貨商場保險的部分百貨商場的保險它目前的話大概是各地方政府如果它有依消費者保護法有定這種特定消費場所的保險的話它會依各地方政府的法規去做保險那有關於餐飲業的部分這個部分其實食安法裡面有要求要投保就是產品責任保險那這一塊的話就是依食安法的部分來的\n那主管機關是誰?是你們還是衛福部?食安法的部分是衛福部所以還是衛福部管?管政大?好來那我就要問那個部長因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任選跟產品責任選\n那他現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保那未來這個整個衛福部應該怎麼樣去確保就是這一些食品業者他在這個產品責任險的部分應保都一定要加保而沒有這種漏網之魚這一次臺北市去稽查也發現其中還有別家的這個業者就是在不同的百貨公司也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險這塊你們未來要怎麼管理\n那這一個部分的話當然依法是可以罰三百萬如果說應該加保而沒有應該投保而沒有投保的不過有關於公共意外險的這一個部分的話可能就不是衛福部這邊的你們是產品責任險嗎我們是產品責任險但是產品責任險一定都要保嗎對\n那所以說未來這部分的話我已經有交代我們食藥署那在他的非登不可的這個系統裡面要加上這個產品責任選的什麼時候到期然後我們希望這個系統能夠在\n我希望這個將來應該是要雙軌制一個就是說你們自己的這個可以透過這個建制的系統就知道說他什麼時候到期而且有警示這個比照\n汽車強制責任險的一樣就是要做到這樣的一個程度第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度我們發現百貨公司裡面他收業者這一個收這個租金抽成都很高都一到兩成但是好像都不關他的事在這裡面就是出了事情業者也是你引進來的那你應該也要負起相對的這個督導的責任如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話事實上他是可以做得到的\n他每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約每一個櫃位他每天都有百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢那對於這一種即將要到期的他其實也知道老早就知道誰要撤櫃了要換人了所以我希望可以去強化這個百貨公司跟商場的這些管理者的責任這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做另外一個比較重要的是那個小林紅麴的這一個部分就是小林製藥進來的這個紅麴\n我要問一下你現在說你有226種產品下架那是不是市面上的現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題現在是只有用到這個小林紅麴的這個原料的才需要因為目前跟我們報告日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西他們不是說是染毛青霉酸嗎那只是一個推測但目前的話還不知道成分是什麼對\n我在想我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來臺酒也有生產紅麴產品那我們怎麼確保日本現在是讓我們視為他們在藥品食安方面是相對嚴格的國家如果那個紅麴產品出了這個問題我要問部長的是你怎麼確保包括我們臺灣像臺酒還有我們其他廠牌的\n沒有用到小林製藥原料你怎麼確保我們自己他從其他原料的他沒有產生同樣的問題他都是安全的你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎\n目前來講的話已知的可能會有傷人體然後是可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的我們都有要求他們要上市前就要做檢驗那平常的時候也可以自我檢驗自主檢驗那這中間比較有名的叫菊梅樹但這次不是菊梅樹這次看起來不是\n所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦\n那也就是說如果這一個國內國人使用這一個紅麴的相關的產品的話不管它是日本來的還是台灣自己製造的那看看有沒有這一些不是的一些通報那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎還是通通都是小林製藥的目前是有6件6件的通報是跟剛剛蕭寶書說18件\n那是申訴啦喔申訴那你們不兩的是六件那六件通通都是小林製藥的還是有來自別的廠房都跟這一個有關跟小林製藥的是完全有關的對就是他的原料到國內然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關\n好那這一次其實有民眾他就抱怨說其實他是選小綠人標章但小綠人標章依然喜勝小綠人標章是我們自己這個食藥署去核發的健康食品而且你現在還兩類一種是個案認證一種是規格標章審查你這次紅麴的個案認證有九家這九家有一家還是出了問題那規格\n蘇長你說\n報告委員我們確實是有雙軌的制度那有一軌就是他要檢據所有的一些他檢驗的就是個案審查嗎對那如果是第二軌的他像精油那個魚油跟紅麴就是屬於他的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的其實就可以審定\n所以你這一次下架的226種產品多數其實都是屬於書審嘛規格標章審查嘛都不是個案審查但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求的他必須要做的檢驗他們一樣要執行但像這樣子民眾就說我都專門買小綠人了結果還是出問題\n有一個個案說他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況那這種情況怎麼辦他要怎麼賠償另外一個我要問你是賠償的問題剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥賠償那有一些他是進原料進來在臺灣生產重新製造的這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎這就要回到消保法的規定了那這個有一些是會有連帶責任的那個消保處處長你上來一下\n因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理就是說所有發生他買來吃結果他吃了有問題現在你說要等這個日本那邊但是其實有一些他不是直接進口藥品進來他是原料進來他自己再變成產品的這一類他不能跟臺灣求償嗎臺灣的廠商求償嗎跟委員報告在我們的消保法裡面就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任的那經銷商也是一樣要針對他們的這個\n就是經銷的一些成果也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任所以臺灣的廠商應該要負責嘛那我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求廠這是我們現在機制是什麼我們政府可以協助他們做什麼提供幫忙就是說如果消費者對這個部分有問題可以我們申訴其實有三個管道可以直接跟企業經營者\n蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴\n我在這邊我要要求衛福部跟消保處這一次的這個小林製藥說所衍生的這個問題必須是用一個專案來協助這些受害者我很擔心的是現在不只這6例也不只這18件陸陸續續還會有\n因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大然後有一些這個高血脂問題的人他可能都希望吃這個他以為是吃了很健康結果現在成分有問題變成他的腎功能開始出現問題所以我要求衛福部跟消保署應該是要用一個專案\n然後好好的來受理這一些受害者他的陳情而且必須協助他整個過程他的這個整個法律訴訟的過程應該政府中央政府要責任不是都是這個地方政府中央跟地方政府要作為我們這一些受害的消費者最大的後盾可以嗎\n當然這個是沒有問題不過現在案件還在累積當中而且這一個根源的到底是什麼東西引起這目前還不是很清楚我知道但你們要先準備好對大概就先累積個案那我們再來做分析啦好應該要全力協助這些受害的消費者他們也是非常的冤枉蠻小綠人然後吃到這個最後腎要洗腎的問題這個的確是政府要負起一定的責任好以上謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.460 --> 00:21.956\n請王育敏委員好謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長有請薛部長還有經濟部商業發展所副署長一起上來委員好\n\n00:24.404 --> 00:48.600\n部長好部長有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件到目前為止追查不出這個真正的來源是什麼那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題部長可不可以承諾國人你大概多久可以追查出這個整個事情的脈絡因為現在真的大家都很焦慮剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條\n\n00:49.601 --> 00:56.940\n但是這到底整個事件發生的原因現在回去溯源到底還要花多久時間可以溯源出來\n\n00:58.618 --> 01:21.278\n跟委員報告目前的話就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉這個原因把它排除掉但是到現在為止的話我們還是鎖定就是說只有在這一家裡面而且共同這一些病患他共同有實用的就是果條\n\n01:23.960 --> 01:35.975\n所以原因應該還是在這裡至於說他怎麼樣去發聲的這個要調查那這個調查不是那麼容易那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石起沒有辦法給時間因為他現在\n\n01:39.680 --> 01:59.481\n請問你們現在調查的速度你們是多麼的積極有多麼的組成一個專家或是獨務小組還有鑑定小組你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事情目前大概有兩個方面一方面的話是檢調司法調查他所調查的就是有可疑的這些人\n\n01:59.881 --> 02:27.516\n是不是犯罪的部分嗎那食物的部分呢那食物的部分的話我們是一直就是說目前的話就已經收集的包括是在寶林茶室的這一家裡面所收到的剩餘的這些檢體我們都已經全部都已經驗完了那並沒有發現說有這個米酵菌酸沒有這個東西那另外的話就是在源頭的供應商大阪城\n\n02:28.476 --> 02:42.898\n那邊收集到的也沒有那在饒河街那邊的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有所以目前還是仍然是在這個寶林茶室就是說A13的這裡\n\n02:44.299 --> 03:05.840\n至於說這中間的話怎麼樣去產生的這個還是如同我剛剛講就是說要進一步的調查但是從這樣子的一個現象來看的話其實民眾也不必太過恐慌因為同樣的這種粿仔條它並不是很少見的其實是很常見的一個食材\n\n03:07.461 --> 03:13.687\n所以民眾可以安心吃嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?民眾可以安心吃嗎?在原因還沒有查出來之前\n\n03:27.413 --> 03:53.572\n大致上並不會有就是說並不是有那麼風險所以部長覺得風險不高因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮我希望這個衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因所造成的第二個就是這一次我們看到在百貨商場的監理機制是出現問題的這一種已經快要到期的就是他結束營業但是他的保險竟然沒有續保這個部分經濟部這個商業發展署這一塊是屬於你們\n\n03:57.194 --> 04:23.833\n應該去管理的範圍嗎跟委員報告百貨商場保險的部分百貨商場的保險它目前的話大概是各地方政府如果它有依消費者保護法有定這種特定消費場所的保險的話它會依各地方政府的法規去做保險那有關於餐飲業的部分這個部分其實食安法裡面有要求要投保就是產品責任保險那這一塊的話就是依食安法的部分來的\n\n04:23.993 --> 04:38.788\n那主管機關是誰?是你們還是衛福部?食安法的部分是衛福部所以還是衛福部管?管政大?好來那我就要問那個部長因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任選跟產品責任選\n\n04:39.349 --> 05:07.510\n那他現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保那未來這個整個衛福部應該怎麼樣去確保就是這一些食品業者他在這個產品責任險的部分應保都一定要加保而沒有這種漏網之魚這一次臺北市去稽查也發現其中還有別家的這個業者就是在不同的百貨公司也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險這塊你們未來要怎麼管理\n\n05:07.970 --> 05:28.739\n那這一個部分的話當然依法是可以罰三百萬如果說應該加保而沒有應該投保而沒有投保的不過有關於公共意外險的這一個部分的話可能就不是衛福部這邊的你們是產品責任險嗎我們是產品責任險但是產品責任險一定都要保嗎對\n\n05:29.759 --> 05:46.987\n那所以說未來這部分的話我已經有交代我們食藥署那在他的非登不可的這個系統裡面要加上這個產品責任選的什麼時候到期然後我們希望這個系統能夠在\n\n05:47.847 --> 05:50.749\n我希望這個將來應該是要雙軌制一個就是說你們自己的這個可以透過這個建制的系統就知道說他什麼時候到期而且有警示這個比照\n\n06:07.641 --> 06:35.029\n汽車強制責任險的一樣就是要做到這樣的一個程度第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度我們發現百貨公司裡面他收業者這一個收這個租金抽成都很高都一到兩成但是好像都不關他的事在這裡面就是出了事情業者也是你引進來的那你應該也要負起相對的這個督導的責任如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話事實上他是可以做得到的\n\n06:35.549 --> 07:00.606\n他每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約每一個櫃位他每天都有百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢那對於這一種即將要到期的他其實也知道老早就知道誰要撤櫃了要換人了所以我希望可以去強化這個百貨公司跟商場的這些管理者的責任這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做另外一個比較重要的是那個小林紅麴的這一個部分就是小林製藥進來的這個紅麴\n\n07:03.288 --> 07:30.769\n我要問一下你現在說你有226種產品下架那是不是市面上的現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題現在是只有用到這個小林紅麴的這個原料的才需要因為目前跟我們報告日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西他們不是說是染毛青霉酸嗎那只是一個推測但目前的話還不知道成分是什麼對\n\n07:32.895 --> 07:37.840\n我在想我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來臺酒也有生產紅麴產品那我們怎麼確保日本現在是讓我們視為他們在藥品食安方面是相對嚴格的國家如果那個紅麴產品出了這個問題我要問部長的是你怎麼確保包括我們臺灣像臺酒還有我們其他廠牌的\n\n07:57.077 --> 08:05.628\n沒有用到小林製藥原料你怎麼確保我們自己他從其他原料的他沒有產生同樣的問題他都是安全的你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎\n\n08:07.579 --> 08:31.549\n目前來講的話已知的可能會有傷人體然後是可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的我們都有要求他們要上市前就要做檢驗那平常的時候也可以自我檢驗自主檢驗那這中間比較有名的叫菊梅樹但這次不是菊梅樹這次看起來不是\n\n08:33.069 --> 08:51.158\n所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦\n\n08:51.678 --> 09:19.806\n那也就是說如果這一個國內國人使用這一個紅麴的相關的產品的話不管它是日本來的還是台灣自己製造的那看看有沒有這一些不是的一些通報那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎還是通通都是小林製藥的目前是有6件6件的通報是跟剛剛蕭寶書說18件\n\n09:22.839 --> 09:39.513\n那是申訴啦喔申訴那你們不兩的是六件那六件通通都是小林製藥的還是有來自別的廠房都跟這一個有關跟小林製藥的是完全有關的對就是他的原料到國內然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關\n\n09:40.214 --> 09:57.940\n好那這一次其實有民眾他就抱怨說其實他是選小綠人標章但小綠人標章依然喜勝小綠人標章是我們自己這個食藥署去核發的健康食品而且你現在還兩類一種是個案認證一種是規格標章審查你這次紅麴的個案認證有九家這九家有一家還是出了問題那規格\n\n10:05.883 --> 10:05.903\n蘇長你說\n\n10:27.541 --> 10:45.340\n報告委員我們確實是有雙軌的制度那有一軌就是他要檢據所有的一些他檢驗的就是個案審查嗎對那如果是第二軌的他像精油那個魚油跟紅麴就是屬於他的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的其實就可以審定\n\n10:46.241 --> 11:02.236\n所以你這一次下架的226種產品多數其實都是屬於書審嘛規格標章審查嘛都不是個案審查但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求的他必須要做的檢驗他們一樣要執行但像這樣子民眾就說我都專門買小綠人了結果還是出問題\n\n11:05.519 --> 11:32.555\n有一個個案說他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況那這種情況怎麼辦他要怎麼賠償另外一個我要問你是賠償的問題剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥賠償那有一些他是進原料進來在臺灣生產重新製造的這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎這就要回到消保法的規定了那這個有一些是會有連帶責任的那個消保處處長你上來一下\n\n11:35.387 --> 12:00.525\n因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理就是說所有發生他買來吃結果他吃了有問題現在你說要等這個日本那邊但是其實有一些他不是直接進口藥品進來他是原料進來他自己再變成產品的這一類他不能跟臺灣求償嗎臺灣的廠商求償嗎跟委員報告在我們的消保法裡面就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任的那經銷商也是一樣要針對他們的這個\n\n12:02.846 --> 12:21.284\n就是經銷的一些成果也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任所以臺灣的廠商應該要負責嘛那我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求廠這是我們現在機制是什麼我們政府可以協助他們做什麼提供幫忙就是說如果消費者對這個部分有問題可以我們申訴其實有三個管道可以直接跟企業經營者\n\n12:22.085 --> 12:22.285\n蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴\n\n12:42.398 --> 12:47.900\n我在這邊我要要求衛福部跟消保處這一次的這個小林製藥說所衍生的這個問題必須是用一個專案來協助這些受害者我很擔心的是現在不只這6例也不只這18件陸陸續續還會有\n\n12:58.243 --> 13:09.827\n因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大然後有一些這個高血脂問題的人他可能都希望吃這個他以為是吃了很健康結果現在成分有問題變成他的腎功能開始出現問題所以我要求衛福部跟消保署應該是要用一個專案\n\n13:16.590 --> 13:32.773\n然後好好的來受理這一些受害者他的陳情而且必須協助他整個過程他的這個整個法律訴訟的過程應該政府中央政府要責任不是都是這個地方政府中央跟地方政府要作為我們這一些受害的消費者最大的後盾可以嗎\n\n13:34.718 --> 14:02.737\n當然這個是沒有問題不過現在案件還在累積當中而且這一個根源的到底是什麼東西引起這目前還不是很清楚我知道但你們要先準備好對大概就先累積個案那我們再來做分析啦好應該要全力協助這些受害的消費者他們也是非常的冤枉蠻小綠人然後吃到這個最後腎要洗腎的問題這個的確是政府要負起一定的責任好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.46,"end":21.956,"text":"請王育敏委員好 謝謝主席我們是不是請薛部長有請薛部長還有經濟部商業發展所副署長一起上來委員好"},{"start":24.404,"end":48.6,"text":"部長好部長有關於寶林茶室的這個中毒事件到目前為止追查不出這個真正的來源是什麼那現在到底是遇到了什麼樣的困難跟問題部長可不可以承諾國人你大概多久可以追查出這個整個事情的脈絡因為現在真的大家都很焦慮剛剛有委員說大家最近都不敢吃粿仔條"},{"start":49.601,"end":56.94,"text":"但是這到底整個事件發生的原因現在回去溯源到底還要花多久時間可以溯源出來"},{"start":58.618,"end":81.278,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話就是一樣一樣的把它排除掉這個原因把它排除掉但是到現在為止的話我們還是鎖定就是說只有在這一家裡面而且共同這一些病患他共同有實用的就是果條"},{"start":83.96,"end":95.975,"text":"所以原因應該還是在這裡至於說他怎麼樣去發聲的這個要調查那這個調查不是那麼容易那你預計要多久這個真相可以水落石起沒有辦法給時間因為他現在"},{"start":99.68,"end":119.481,"text":"請問你們現在調查的速度你們是多麼的積極有多麼的組成一個專家或是獨務小組還有鑑定小組你們是用什麼樣的速度來做這件事情目前大概有兩個方面一方面的話是檢調司法調查他所調查的就是有可疑的這些人"},{"start":119.881,"end":147.516,"text":"是不是犯罪的部分嗎那食物的部分呢那食物的部分的話我們是一直就是說目前的話就已經收集的包括是在寶林茶室的這一家裡面所收到的剩餘的這些檢體我們都已經全部都已經驗完了那並沒有發現說有這個米酵菌酸沒有這個東西那另外的話就是在源頭的供應商大阪城"},{"start":148.476,"end":162.898,"text":"那邊收集到的也沒有那在饒河街那邊的兩個病人去驗血的結果也沒有所以目前還是仍然是在這個寶林茶室就是說A13的這裡"},{"start":164.299,"end":185.84,"text":"至於說這中間的話怎麼樣去產生的這個還是如同我剛剛講就是說要進一步的調查但是從這樣子的一個現象來看的話其實民眾也不必太過恐慌因為同樣的這種粿仔條它並不是很少見的其實是很常見的一個食材"},{"start":187.461,"end":193.687,"text":"所以民眾可以安心吃嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?學校也可以不用進嗎?民眾可以安心吃嗎?在原因還沒有查出來之前"},{"start":207.413,"end":233.572,"text":"大致上並不會有就是說並不是有那麼風險所以部長覺得風險不高因為現在民眾真的是非常焦慮我希望這個衛福部還是必須在最快的時間去查出來到底是什麼原因所造成的第二個就是這一次我們看到在百貨商場的監理機制是出現問題的這一種已經快要到期的就是他結束營業但是他的保險竟然沒有續保這個部分經濟部這個商業發展署這一塊是屬於你們"},{"start":237.194,"end":263.833,"text":"應該去管理的範圍嗎跟委員報告百貨商場保險的部分百貨商場的保險它目前的話大概是各地方政府如果它有依消費者保護法有定這種特定消費場所的保險的話它會依各地方政府的法規去做保險那有關於餐飲業的部分這個部分其實食安法裡面有要求要投保就是產品責任保險那這一塊的話就是依食安法的部分來的"},{"start":263.993,"end":278.788,"text":"那主管機關是誰?是你們還是衛福部?食安法的部分是衛福部所以還是衛福部管?管政大?好來那我就要問那個部長因為這次我們看到在這家百貨公司裡面有公共責任選跟產品責任選"},{"start":279.349,"end":307.51,"text":"那他現在產品責任險的部分他就是沒有續保那未來這個整個衛福部應該怎麼樣去確保就是這一些食品業者他在這個產品責任險的部分應保都一定要加保而沒有這種漏網之魚這一次臺北市去稽查也發現其中還有別家的這個業者就是在不同的百貨公司也一樣應該保這個保險但是沒有保險這塊你們未來要怎麼管理"},{"start":307.97,"end":328.739,"text":"那這一個部分的話當然依法是可以罰三百萬如果說應該加保而沒有應該投保而沒有投保的不過有關於公共意外險的這一個部分的話可能就不是衛福部這邊的你們是產品責任險嗎我們是產品責任險但是產品責任險一定都要保嗎對"},{"start":329.759,"end":346.987,"text":"那所以說未來這部分的話我已經有交代我們食藥署那在他的非登不可的這個系統裡面要加上這個產品責任選的什麼時候到期然後我們希望這個系統能夠在"},{"start":347.847,"end":350.749,"text":"我希望這個將來應該是要雙軌制一個就是說你們自己的這個可以透過這個建制的系統就知道說他什麼時候到期而且有警示這個比照"},{"start":367.641,"end":395.029,"text":"汽車強制責任險的一樣就是要做到這樣的一個程度第二個就是百貨公司的督導程度我們發現百貨公司裡面他收業者這一個收這個租金抽成都很高都一到兩成但是好像都不關他的事在這裡面就是出了事情業者也是你引進來的那你應該也要負起相對的這個督導的責任如果百貨公司幫助你們去做行政管理的話事實上他是可以做得到的"},{"start":395.549,"end":420.606,"text":"他每一個櫃位都要跟他簽約每一個櫃位他每天都有百貨公司的人都可以去巡檢那對於這一種即將要到期的他其實也知道老早就知道誰要撤櫃了要換人了所以我希望可以去強化這個百貨公司跟商場的這些管理者的責任這個之後你們再去研議應該要怎麼做另外一個比較重要的是那個小林紅麴的這一個部分就是小林製藥進來的這個紅麴"},{"start":423.288,"end":450.769,"text":"我要問一下你現在說你有226種產品下架那是不是市面上的現在所有的紅麴產品都沒有問題現在是只有用到這個小林紅麴的這個原料的才需要因為目前跟我們報告日本那邊仍然沒有確定到底是什麼東西他們不是說是染毛青霉酸嗎那只是一個推測但目前的話還不知道成分是什麼對"},{"start":452.895,"end":457.84,"text":"我在想我們臺灣也有很多其他的紅麴產品包括今天也有邀請臺酒到現場來臺酒也有生產紅麴產品那我們怎麼確保日本現在是讓我們視為他們在藥品食安方面是相對嚴格的國家如果那個紅麴產品出了這個問題我要問部長的是你怎麼確保包括我們臺灣像臺酒還有我們其他廠牌的"},{"start":477.077,"end":485.628,"text":"沒有用到小林製藥原料你怎麼確保我們自己他從其他原料的他沒有產生同樣的問題他都是安全的你們有進一步做什麼檢測嗎"},{"start":487.579,"end":511.549,"text":"目前來講的話已知的可能會有傷人體然後是可能存在於紅麴產品裡面的我們都有要求他們要上市前就要做檢驗那平常的時候也可以自我檢驗自主檢驗那這中間比較有名的叫菊梅樹但這次不是菊梅樹這次看起來不是"},{"start":513.069,"end":531.158,"text":"所以我的問題就在這邊嘛就是說日本那邊出現的是一個未知的我剛剛說可能是軟毛青霉酸你說還沒有確定嗎那如果日方是這樣子的話我們怎麼確保我們台灣的這些產品都是安全的就用公共衛生的方式先去做先去做分析啦"},{"start":531.678,"end":559.806,"text":"那也就是說如果這一個國內國人使用這一個紅麴的相關的產品的話不管它是日本來的還是台灣自己製造的那看看有沒有這一些不是的一些通報那你現在的18件有是來自其他產品的嗎還是通通都是小林製藥的目前是有6件6件的通報是跟剛剛蕭寶書說18件"},{"start":562.839,"end":579.513,"text":"那是申訴啦喔申訴那你們不兩的是六件那六件通通都是小林製藥的還是有來自別的廠房都跟這一個有關跟小林製藥的是完全有關的對就是他的原料到國內然後再去做製造的都跟這個有關"},{"start":580.214,"end":597.94,"text":"好那這一次其實有民眾他就抱怨說其實他是選小綠人標章但小綠人標章依然喜勝小綠人標章是我們自己這個食藥署去核發的健康食品而且你現在還兩類一種是個案認證一種是規格標章審查你這次紅麴的個案認證有九家這九家有一家還是出了問題那規格"},{"start":605.883,"end":605.903,"text":"蘇長你說"},{"start":627.541,"end":645.34,"text":"報告委員我們確實是有雙軌的制度那有一軌就是他要檢據所有的一些他檢驗的就是個案審查嗎對那如果是第二軌的他像精油那個魚油跟紅麴就是屬於他的規格如果能夠符合之前已經有通過的其實就可以審定"},{"start":646.241,"end":662.236,"text":"所以你這一次下架的226種產品多數其實都是屬於書審嘛規格標章審查嘛都不是個案審查但是業者一樣要做我們相關規格裡面所要求的他必須要做的檢驗他們一樣要執行但像這樣子民眾就說我都專門買小綠人了結果還是出問題"},{"start":665.519,"end":692.555,"text":"有一個個案說他這樣子還是要到洗腎的情況那這種情況怎麼辦他要怎麼賠償另外一個我要問你是賠償的問題剛剛提到說統一都是跟小林製藥賠償那有一些他是進原料進來在臺灣生產重新製造的這個臺灣的廠商都不用負責嗎這就要回到消保法的規定了那這個有一些是會有連帶責任的那個消保處處長你上來一下"},{"start":695.387,"end":720.525,"text":"因為我覺得這樣是有點不合理就是說所有發生他買來吃結果他吃了有問題現在你說要等這個日本那邊但是其實有一些他不是直接進口藥品進來他是原料進來他自己再變成產品的這一類他不能跟臺灣求償嗎臺灣的廠商求償嗎跟委員報告在我們的消保法裡面就是製造商跟輸入商是負同樣的責任的那經銷商也是一樣要針對他們的這個"},{"start":722.846,"end":741.284,"text":"就是經銷的一些成果也要跟這個製造商負相同的責任所以臺灣的廠商應該要負責嘛那我們的消費者怎麼跟臺灣的廠商求廠這是我們現在機制是什麼我們政府可以協助他們做什麼提供幫忙就是說如果消費者對這個部分有問題可以我們申訴其實有三個管道可以直接跟企業經營者"},{"start":742.085,"end":742.285,"text":"蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴"},{"start":762.398,"end":767.9,"text":"我在這邊我要要求衛福部跟消保處這一次的這個小林製藥說所衍生的這個問題必須是用一個專案來協助這些受害者我很擔心的是現在不只這6例也不只這18件陸陸續續還會有"},{"start":778.243,"end":789.827,"text":"因為紅麴相關的產品在臺灣打的廣告很大然後有一些這個高血脂問題的人他可能都希望吃這個他以為是吃了很健康結果現在成分有問題變成他的腎功能開始出現問題所以我要求衛福部跟消保署應該是要用一個專案"},{"start":796.59,"end":812.773,"text":"然後好好的來受理這一些受害者他的陳情而且必須協助他整個過程他的這個整個法律訴訟的過程應該政府中央政府要責任不是都是這個地方政府中央跟地方政府要作為我們這一些受害的消費者最大的後盾可以嗎"},{"start":814.718,"end":842.737,"text":"當然這個是沒有問題不過現在案件還在累積當中而且這一個根源的到底是什麼東西引起這目前還不是很清楚我知道但你們要先準備好對大概就先累積個案那我們再來做分析啦好應該要全力協助這些受害的消費者他們也是非常的冤枉蠻小綠人然後吃到這個最後腎要洗腎的問題這個的確是政府要負起一定的責任好以上謝謝好謝謝"}]}}}}