{"id":150734,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150734","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c02abe2dfa99aca037f7510a295be7434bf8ba9b0039caa7a6f24a9b87407f9c345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"10:34:58 - 10:44:13","影片長度":"00:09:15","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程。(二)如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策。(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形。(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展。(五)原住民族學校法立法推動情形。(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形。(七)如何改善原住民族語言推動組織之需求。(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討。(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」。(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃。(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形。(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之困境。(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形。(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並落實老幼共學政策。(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育規劃。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(僅詢答)【4月1日及3日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-9"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":555,"end_time":"2024-04-01T10:44:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T10:34:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":456,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（10時35分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席（高金委員素梅）：有請夷將主委。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員好。"],["黃委員仁：這是我第一次質詢，針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊，你有沒有因應的對策？第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展，包含原住民族自己的土地裡面有什麼樣的衝擊？你來解釋一二。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，其實針對國土計畫法在推動的過程當中，我們都是滾動的修正、聽取民眾的需求來做處理，包括像對原住民居住的問題，我們透過城3跟農4的方法來解決他們居住的問題，甚至歲時祭儀傳統的地方土地使用這個部分，我們都會跟內政部來做處理，包括我們的土地使用規則，也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換，草案也差不多要定案了。"],["黃委員仁：在幾年前我訪視過各部落、各鄉鎮，我瞭解行政院當時委辦給顧問公司到各鄉鎮做說明，在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面，很多部落的人參加，有聽沒有懂，非常有聽沒有懂！而且當時我就第一時間告訴各鄉鎮部落，因為我走訪各部落聽取了他們的一些心聲，對國土計畫法這樣一個草率的決定，這樣的一個作法，對全國也好，或是針對原住民也好，真的是非常的不利！現在計畫要延後兩年，這兩年裡面有什麼樣一個更好的因地制宜的政策？第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬來因應這個政策？所謂的放寬，就是我們有自己的原住民土地，在不影響山坡地跟林務用地之外，當然在他擁有自己的原保地，有什麼樣的開放政策？這是第一個。我想這個報告，你們提出來給我一份，就是有沒有可能針對原住民保留地的放寬使用，比如他擁有這一塊土地，有幾位委員有提到，他可以跟銀行融資貸款，這是一個好的政策。第二個，我們擁有了原保地，我們如何善用自己的土地，能夠營造自己的一個經濟產業？這是一個重點。你來回答。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分，的確我也私下跟我們同仁講，說明會的內容太專業了，反而讓族人聽不懂，所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會，我們改變那個說明會的方式，用簡便的、用懶人包的方式，讓我們的族人聽得懂，這一點我們會再改善。"],["黃委員仁：本來你們就應該這樣做的。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：是。"],["黃委員仁：因為層次上，我們不是說他們聽不懂，而是要用我們自己的方法、方式，比如我跟老人家在對談的時候，有時候我用國語去對談，他不見得會聽得懂，但是我用母語跟老人家對談的時候，他聽得懂，原因在哪裡？這就是根本嘛！你們就浪費公帑啊！你們到處說為了要因應，行政院長，包含總統，要到處宣導國土計畫法的政策，結果成效不彰！第二個，有聽沒有懂的鄉親抱怨，是不是政府要把我們的土地收編？限縮開發的農地，也限縮我們原住民的保留地？這是非常嚴重的。政府是不是想要獨吞我們原住民的原保地？這是很嚴重的。有人會用這種想法，弄不好，你們宣導不好變成本末倒置，倒過來誤會政府今天推動國土計畫法的政策是好意、惡意，還是故意侵占我們自己的土地？好，你來說明。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：的確，其實國土計畫法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的充分利用，而不是給他們更多限制。也許我們過去說明得不夠清楚，我們也贊同委員的指教，Ano itini i niyaro' haw, ano mafokil ko mato'asay mitengil to no Holam i, sano'Amis han mafana' mitengil.（如果在部落裡，如果長輩聽不懂華語，用全族語一定聽得懂。）"],["黃委員仁：Sano'Amisen mamanay.（就是用族語。）"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這個很不一樣。"],["黃委員仁：卑南族有卑南族的語言，可以告訴卑南族的耆老；排灣族有排灣族的lokah masalu（你好，謝謝）可以講。但是你要用漢人去解釋，這個立場上實在是……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：對，長輩的確會很吃力。"],["黃委員仁：你應該跟你們的高層好好的說，陪同你們自己相關的，並跟土地有關係的單位、跟產業有關係的一起來說明，這才是真正對族人尊重。另外，這個報告順便給我。","我特別提出來，現在全國有503個文健站，有沒有增加不曉得。我必須要講，4月份電價要應聲漲價，今天所有的計畫方案，包含它要承擔的電費，今年都已經報告完畢了，4月份應聲漲價的時候，有沒有因應的補貼政策，就是針對503個文健站？很多文健站反映，漲價後變成它所有的這些預算必須墊出這個費用，你們有沒有補貼的政策？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：如果因為電價漲價影響到文健站的營運，我們會在業務費這個部分調整。"],["黃委員仁：我看不出你的業務費可以調整什麼東西，你們都知道4月份要漲價了，本來第一時間……，你們常常自以為好的是什麼？文健站是你們執政的時候推展出來的，文健站的效應非常好，讓人年輕了兩歲以上，能夠讓老人家在文健站裡面互相進行情感交流，包含技藝上的技術能夠延伸，做文化的延伸。可是在4月份的時候……，在還沒有漲價之前，你們本來就應該因應這個政策，告訴全國的文健站有補貼政策，是嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：針對電費漲價這個部分，我們會因應。"],["黃委員仁：什麼時候？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：實務的狀況，比如說，到底一個文健站的電費增加……"],["黃委員仁：不用吧？按照你們現在漲11%的電價，以及開設這一些文健站承載的電力，你們按照承載的電力作為補貼、補償，這樣的一個角色。這個報告一個禮拜給我，好不好？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：好，可以。"],["黃委員仁：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃仁委員，謝謝夷將主委。","繼續請李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-9","speakers":["高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","黃建賓","麥玉珍","王美惠","張智倫","黃仁","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","黃捷","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林倩綺","黃國昌","盧縣一","蘇巧慧","丁學忠","陳培瑜"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民\n族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民\n族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程、 ( 二) 如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策、\n(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形、(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展、(五)\n原住民族學校法立法推動情形、(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形、(七)如何改善原住民族語言推\n動組織之需求、(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討、(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益\n之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」、(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃、\n(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形、(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之\n困境、(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形、(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並\n落實老幼共學政策、(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育\n規劃；二、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 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\"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 547.291, \"end\": 547.491, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 547.491, \"end\": 548.032, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 548.032, \"end\": 548.572, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 548.572, \"end\": 548.712, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 548.712, \"end\": 548.852, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 548.852, \"end\": 549.112, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 549.112, \"end\": 549.272, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 549.272, \"end\": 549.533, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 549.533, \"end\": 549.613, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 549.613, \"end\": 549.633, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 549.633, \"end\": 549.653, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 549.653, \"end\": 549.673, \"score\": 0.028}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"汝\", \"start\": 553.196, \"end\": 553.337, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 553.337, \"end\": 553.518, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"江\", \"start\": 553.518, \"end\": 553.799, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 553.799, \"end\": 553.819, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,504 --> 00:00:10,888\n謝謝主席有請主委有請一江主委這是我第一次你好這第一次諮詢那針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊\n\n2\n00:00:29,488 --> 00:00:43,102\n你有沒有因應的對策那第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展包含原住民族自己的土地裡面那有什麼樣的衝擊你來解釋一個\n\n3\n00:00:49,124 --> 00:01:16,422\n跟委員報告其實我們針對國土計畫法的整個在推動的過程當中我們都是滾動的修正聽起民眾的需求來做處理包括像對原住民居住的問題我們用透過陳山跟農事的方式來解決他們居住的問題那甚至我們遂時際已的傳統的地方的使用的這個土地使用這個部分我們都會跟\n\n4\n00:01:17,442 --> 00:01:42,360\n內政部來做處理包括我們的土地使用規則也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換草案也差不多要定案了而且在幾年前我訪視過各部落各鄉鎮我瞭解你們當時行政院委辦給顧問公司來到各鄉鎮來做一個說明在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面\n\n5\n00:01:45,622 --> 00:02:00,043\n很多部落的人參加有聽沒有懂非常有聽沒有懂而且當時我就第一時間告訴給各鄉鎮部落因為我左方各部落裡面有聽起來他們的一些心聲\n\n6\n00:02:01,464 --> 00:02:16,998\n聽起來他們心生對國土計畫法的這樣的一個草率的決定這樣的一個做法對我們整個全國也好或是針對原住民也好真的是非常的不利\n\n7\n00:02:17,864 --> 00:02:43,179\n那你們現在好現在計畫要延後個兩年那這兩年裡面有什麼樣的一個更好因地制宜因地制宜的政策那第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬的來因應這個政策\n\n8\n00:02:44,159 --> 00:03:07,638\n所謂的放寬就是我們有自己的原住民的土地在不影響山坡地跟他的林務用地之外那當然在他的擁有自己的原保地有什麼樣的開放政策這是第一個那我想這個報告你們提出來給我一份就是\n\n9\n00:03:08,590 --> 00:03:28,753\n有沒有可能針對原住民的保留地的放寬使用放寬使用比如說他擁有這一塊土地他能夠有幾位議員有提到了可以跟做銀行的一個融資貸款這是一個好的政策\n\n10\n00:03:29,474 --> 00:03:39,608\n第二、我們擁有了原保地,我們如何善用我們自己的土地,能夠營造我們自己的一個經濟產業。這是一個重點。你來回答。\n\n11\n00:03:44,956 --> 00:04:06,868\n對委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分的確我也私下跟我們同仁講他的說明會的內容太專業了反而讓主任聽不懂所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會我們改變那個說明會的方式用簡便的用懶人包的方式讓我們的主任聽得懂這一點我們會再做改善這本來就應該你們這樣做的嘛因為\n\n12\n00:04:09,149 --> 00:04:29,651\n層次上我們不是說他們聽不懂是要用我們自己的方法方式比如說我跟老人家在對談的時候有時候我用國語去對談他不見得會聽得懂但是我要用母語跟老人家對談的時候他聽得懂原因在哪裡這就是根本嘛\n\n13\n00:04:30,748 --> 00:04:48,938\n特別是浪費公帑啊那你們到處說我們要為了因應我們行政院長包含總統然後我要到處來做先討我們國土計畫法的政策結果囂張不利第二個有聽沒有的統治鄉親抱怨\n\n14\n00:04:50,066 --> 00:05:02,861\n那是不是你們政府把我們的土地要收編限縮了開發的這個農地也限縮了我們原住民的保留地這是一個非常嚴重的\n\n15\n00:05:03,663 --> 00:05:32,114\n那是不是政府想要獨通我們原住民的原保地這是很嚴重有人會用這種想法弄不好你們先導不好變成本末倒置倒過來誤會你們的政府今天推動的國土計畫法的政策裡面是好意還是惡意還是故意侵佔了我們自己的土地你來說明\n\n16\n00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:56,963\n委員的確其實國土計劃法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的這個充分利用而不是給他們更多的限制也許在我們過去的說明當中可能說明的不夠清楚我們也贊同委員的指教就是阿努伊帝尼阿諾奧阿努阿夫基美登耶古瑪多阿塞爾頓諾歐拉米山諾阿密山山諾阿密山阿密內\n\n17\n00:05:58,945 --> 00:06:04,448\n貝南屬有貝南屬的語言可以告訴給貝南屬祈禱。台灣屬有台灣屬的語言可以講。\n\n18\n00:06:09,079 --> 00:06:31,946\n但是你要用害人去解釋這個立場上實在是主委你應該跟你們的高層好好的說陪同你們自己相關跟土地有關係的單位裡面跟產業有關係的進行來一起來做一個說明這才是一個真正對族人的尊重另外我特別要提出來這個報告順便給我\n\n19\n00:06:34,167 --> 00:06:54,500\n我特別提出來是我們現在全國裡面的文康站、文件站全國裡面有503個文件站那有沒有增加不曉得我必須要講的現在4月份應聲要把電價應聲要漲價\n\n20\n00:06:58,601 --> 00:07:04,049\n今天所有的計劃的方案包含他要承載承擔的電費今年對新\n\n21\n00:07:09,717 --> 00:07:35,200\n報告完畢了那你們應申4月份漲價的時候有沒有因應的貼補的政策針對這個503個文件站很多文件站在反映你們漲價了變成他所有的這些預算裡面他必須要必須要墊出墊出這個費用你們有沒有補貼的一個政策\n\n22\n00:07:35,814 --> 00:07:55,685\n衡委員報告如果因為電價漲價影響到文件商的營運我們會在業務費這個部分來做一個調整我看不出來你的業務費可以調整什麼東西你們都知道四月份都要漲價了四月份漲價你們本來第一時間你們常常自以為好的是什麼\n\n23\n00:07:56,925 --> 00:08:18,890\n文獻戰是你們在執政的時候推展出來的造成這個文獻戰的效應非常好也年輕了兩歲以上能夠讓老人家互相在文獻戰裡面能夠情感交流包含記憶上的技術能夠延伸文化的延伸可是\n\n24\n00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:36,064\n你們在4月份的時候在還沒有漲價之前你們本來就應該要針對這個政策要因應來告訴給全國的文件站我們有補貼的一個政策嘛是嗎這個部分針對電費漲價這個部分我們會做因應什麼時候\n\n25\n00:08:43,453 --> 00:09:09,673\n實務的狀況因為比如說一個文件它到底它的電費的不用嘛按照你們現在賬的11%的電價然後今天文件站所開設的這一些文件站他們所承載的電力你們按照承載的電力裡面作為貼補補償的一個角色所以這個報告一個禮拜給我好不好好謝謝\n\n26\n00:09:13,196 --> 00:09:13,819\n謝謝黃汝委員、謝謝江組委、謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7504\t10888\t謝謝主席有請主委有請一江主委這是我第一次你好這第一次諮詢那針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊\n29488\t43102\t你有沒有因應的對策那第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展包含原住民族自己的土地裡面那有什麼樣的衝擊你來解釋一個\n49124\t76422\t跟委員報告其實我們針對國土計畫法的整個在推動的過程當中我們都是滾動的修正聽起民眾的需求來做處理包括像對原住民居住的問題我們用透過陳山跟農事的方式來解決他們居住的問題那甚至我們遂時際已的傳統的地方的使用的這個土地使用這個部分我們都會跟\n77442\t102360\t內政部來做處理包括我們的土地使用規則也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換草案也差不多要定案了而且在幾年前我訪視過各部落各鄉鎮我瞭解你們當時行政院委辦給顧問公司來到各鄉鎮來做一個說明在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面\n105622\t120043\t很多部落的人參加有聽沒有懂非常有聽沒有懂而且當時我就第一時間告訴給各鄉鎮部落因為我左方各部落裡面有聽起來他們的一些心聲\n121464\t136998\t聽起來他們心生對國土計畫法的這樣的一個草率的決定這樣的一個做法對我們整個全國也好或是針對原住民也好真的是非常的不利\n137864\t163179\t那你們現在好現在計畫要延後個兩年那這兩年裡面有什麼樣的一個更好因地制宜因地制宜的政策那第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬的來因應這個政策\n164159\t187638\t所謂的放寬就是我們有自己的原住民的土地在不影響山坡地跟他的林務用地之外那當然在他的擁有自己的原保地有什麼樣的開放政策這是第一個那我想這個報告你們提出來給我一份就是\n188590\t208753\t有沒有可能針對原住民的保留地的放寬使用放寬使用比如說他擁有這一塊土地他能夠有幾位議員有提到了可以跟做銀行的一個融資貸款這是一個好的政策\n209474\t219608\t第二、我們擁有了原保地,我們如何善用我們自己的土地,能夠營造我們自己的一個經濟產業。這是一個重點。你來回答。\n224956\t246868\t對委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分的確我也私下跟我們同仁講他的說明會的內容太專業了反而讓主任聽不懂所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會我們改變那個說明會的方式用簡便的用懶人包的方式讓我們的主任聽得懂這一點我們會再做改善這本來就應該你們這樣做的嘛因為\n249149\t269651\t層次上我們不是說他們聽不懂是要用我們自己的方法方式比如說我跟老人家在對談的時候有時候我用國語去對談他不見得會聽得懂但是我要用母語跟老人家對談的時候他聽得懂原因在哪裡這就是根本嘛\n270748\t288938\t特別是浪費公帑啊那你們到處說我們要為了因應我們行政院長包含總統然後我要到處來做先討我們國土計畫法的政策結果囂張不利第二個有聽沒有的統治鄉親抱怨\n290066\t302861\t那是不是你們政府把我們的土地要收編限縮了開發的這個農地也限縮了我們原住民的保留地這是一個非常嚴重的\n303663\t332114\t那是不是政府想要獨通我們原住民的原保地這是很嚴重有人會用這種想法弄不好你們先導不好變成本末倒置倒過來誤會你們的政府今天推動的國土計畫法的政策裡面是好意還是惡意還是故意侵佔了我們自己的土地你來說明\n333120\t356963\t委員的確其實國土計劃法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的這個充分利用而不是給他們更多的限制也許在我們過去的說明當中可能說明的不夠清楚我們也贊同委員的指教就是阿努伊帝尼阿諾奧阿努阿夫基美登耶古瑪多阿塞爾頓諾歐拉米山諾阿密山山諾阿密山阿密內\n358945\t364448\t貝南屬有貝南屬的語言可以告訴給貝南屬祈禱。 台灣屬有台灣屬的語言可以講。\n369079\t391946\t但是你要用害人去解釋這個立場上實在是主委你應該跟你們的高層好好的說陪同你們自己相關跟土地有關係的單位裡面跟產業有關係的進行來一起來做一個說明這才是一個真正對族人的尊重另外我特別要提出來這個報告順便給我\n394167\t414500\t我特別提出來是我們現在全國裡面的文康站、文件站全國裡面有503個文件站那有沒有增加不曉得我必須要講的現在4月份應聲要把電價應聲要漲價\n418601\t424049\t今天所有的計劃的方案包含他要承載承擔的電費今年對新\n429717\t455200\t報告完畢了那你們應申4月份漲價的時候有沒有因應的貼補的政策針對這個503個文件站很多文件站在反映你們漲價了變成他所有的這些預算裡面他必須要必須要墊出墊出這個費用你們有沒有補貼的一個政策\n455814\t475685\t衡委員報告如果因為電價漲價影響到文件商的營運我們會在業務費這個部分來做一個調整我看不出來你的業務費可以調整什麼東西你們都知道四月份都要漲價了四月份漲價你們本來第一時間你們常常自以為好的是什麼\n476925\t498890\t文獻戰是你們在執政的時候推展出來的造成這個文獻戰的效應非常好也年輕了兩歲以上能夠讓老人家互相在文獻戰裡面能夠情感交流包含記憶上的技術能夠延伸文化的延伸可是\n499770\t516064\t你們在4月份的時候在還沒有漲價之前你們本來就應該要針對這個政策要因應來告訴給全國的文件站我們有補貼的一個政策嘛是嗎這個部分針對電費漲價這個部分我們會做因應什麼時候\n523453\t549673\t實務的狀況因為比如說一個文件它到底它的電費的不用嘛按照你們現在賬的11%的電價然後今天文件站所開設的這一些文件站他們所承載的電力你們按照承載的電力裡面作為貼補補償的一個角色所以這個報告一個禮拜給我好不好好謝謝\n553196\t553819\t謝謝黃汝委員、謝謝江組委、謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請主委有請一江主委這是我第一次你好這第一次諮詢那針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊\n你有沒有因應的對策那第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展包含原住民族自己的土地裡面那有什麼樣的衝擊你來解釋一個\n跟委員報告其實我們針對國土計畫法的整個在推動的過程當中我們都是滾動的修正聽起民眾的需求來做處理包括像對原住民居住的問題我們用透過陳山跟農事的方式來解決他們居住的問題那甚至我們遂時際已的傳統的地方的使用的這個土地使用這個部分我們都會跟\n內政部來做處理包括我們的土地使用規則也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換草案也差不多要定案了而且在幾年前我訪視過各部落各鄉鎮我瞭解你們當時行政院委辦給顧問公司來到各鄉鎮來做一個說明在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面\n很多部落的人參加有聽沒有懂非常有聽沒有懂而且當時我就第一時間告訴給各鄉鎮部落因為我左方各部落裡面有聽起來他們的一些心聲\n聽起來他們心生對國土計畫法的這樣的一個草率的決定這樣的一個做法對我們整個全國也好或是針對原住民也好真的是非常的不利\n那你們現在好現在計畫要延後個兩年那這兩年裡面有什麼樣的一個更好因地制宜因地制宜的政策那第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬的來因應這個政策\n所謂的放寬就是我們有自己的原住民的土地在不影響山坡地跟他的林務用地之外那當然在他的擁有自己的原保地有什麼樣的開放政策這是第一個那我想這個報告你們提出來給我一份就是\n有沒有可能針對原住民的保留地的放寬使用放寬使用比如說他擁有這一塊土地他能夠有幾位議員有提到了可以跟做銀行的一個融資貸款這是一個好的政策\n第二、我們擁有了原保地,我們如何善用我們自己的土地,能夠營造我們自己的一個經濟產業。這是一個重點。你來回答。\n對委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分的確我也私下跟我們同仁講他的說明會的內容太專業了反而讓主任聽不懂所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會我們改變那個說明會的方式用簡便的用懶人包的方式讓我們的主任聽得懂這一點我們會再做改善這本來就應該你們這樣做的嘛因為\n層次上我們不是說他們聽不懂是要用我們自己的方法方式比如說我跟老人家在對談的時候有時候我用國語去對談他不見得會聽得懂但是我要用母語跟老人家對談的時候他聽得懂原因在哪裡這就是根本嘛\n特別是浪費公帑啊那你們到處說我們要為了因應我們行政院長包含總統然後我要到處來做先討我們國土計畫法的政策結果囂張不利第二個有聽沒有的統治鄉親抱怨\n那是不是你們政府把我們的土地要收編限縮了開發的這個農地也限縮了我們原住民的保留地這是一個非常嚴重的\n那是不是政府想要獨通我們原住民的原保地這是很嚴重有人會用這種想法弄不好你們先導不好變成本末倒置倒過來誤會你們的政府今天推動的國土計畫法的政策裡面是好意還是惡意還是故意侵佔了我們自己的土地你來說明\n委員的確其實國土計劃法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的這個充分利用而不是給他們更多的限制也許在我們過去的說明當中可能說明的不夠清楚我們也贊同委員的指教就是阿努伊帝尼阿諾奧阿努阿夫基美登耶古瑪多阿塞爾頓諾歐拉米山諾阿密山山諾阿密山阿密內\n貝南屬有貝南屬的語言可以告訴給貝南屬祈禱。 台灣屬有台灣屬的語言可以講。\n但是你要用害人去解釋這個立場上實在是主委你應該跟你們的高層好好的說陪同你們自己相關跟土地有關係的單位裡面跟產業有關係的進行來一起來做一個說明這才是一個真正對族人的尊重另外我特別要提出來這個報告順便給我\n我特別提出來是我們現在全國裡面的文康站、文件站全國裡面有503個文件站那有沒有增加不曉得我必須要講的現在4月份應聲要把電價應聲要漲價\n今天所有的計劃的方案包含他要承載承擔的電費今年對新\n報告完畢了那你們應申4月份漲價的時候有沒有因應的貼補的政策針對這個503個文件站很多文件站在反映你們漲價了變成他所有的這些預算裡面他必須要必須要墊出墊出這個費用你們有沒有補貼的一個政策\n衡委員報告如果因為電價漲價影響到文件商的營運我們會在業務費這個部分來做一個調整我看不出來你的業務費可以調整什麼東西你們都知道四月份都要漲價了四月份漲價你們本來第一時間你們常常自以為好的是什麼\n文獻戰是你們在執政的時候推展出來的造成這個文獻戰的效應非常好也年輕了兩歲以上能夠讓老人家互相在文獻戰裡面能夠情感交流包含記憶上的技術能夠延伸文化的延伸可是\n你們在4月份的時候在還沒有漲價之前你們本來就應該要針對這個政策要因應來告訴給全國的文件站我們有補貼的一個政策嘛是嗎這個部分針對電費漲價這個部分我們會做因應什麼時候\n實務的狀況因為比如說一個文件它到底它的電費的不用嘛按照你們現在賬的11%的電價然後今天文件站所開設的這一些文件站他們所承載的電力你們按照承載的電力裡面作為貼補補償的一個角色所以這個報告一個禮拜給我好不好好謝謝\n謝謝黃汝委員、謝謝江組委、謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.504 --> 00:10.888\n謝謝主席有請主委有請一江主委這是我第一次你好這第一次諮詢那針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊\n\n00:29.488 --> 00:43.102\n你有沒有因應的對策那第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展包含原住民族自己的土地裡面那有什麼樣的衝擊你來解釋一個\n\n00:49.124 --> 01:16.422\n跟委員報告其實我們針對國土計畫法的整個在推動的過程當中我們都是滾動的修正聽起民眾的需求來做處理包括像對原住民居住的問題我們用透過陳山跟農事的方式來解決他們居住的問題那甚至我們遂時際已的傳統的地方的使用的這個土地使用這個部分我們都會跟\n\n01:17.442 --> 01:42.360\n內政部來做處理包括我們的土地使用規則也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換草案也差不多要定案了而且在幾年前我訪視過各部落各鄉鎮我瞭解你們當時行政院委辦給顧問公司來到各鄉鎮來做一個說明在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面\n\n01:45.622 --> 02:00.043\n很多部落的人參加有聽沒有懂非常有聽沒有懂而且當時我就第一時間告訴給各鄉鎮部落因為我左方各部落裡面有聽起來他們的一些心聲\n\n02:01.464 --> 02:16.998\n聽起來他們心生對國土計畫法的這樣的一個草率的決定這樣的一個做法對我們整個全國也好或是針對原住民也好真的是非常的不利\n\n02:17.864 --> 02:43.179\n那你們現在好現在計畫要延後個兩年那這兩年裡面有什麼樣的一個更好因地制宜因地制宜的政策那第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬的來因應這個政策\n\n02:44.159 --> 03:07.638\n所謂的放寬就是我們有自己的原住民的土地在不影響山坡地跟他的林務用地之外那當然在他的擁有自己的原保地有什麼樣的開放政策這是第一個那我想這個報告你們提出來給我一份就是\n\n03:08.590 --> 03:28.753\n有沒有可能針對原住民的保留地的放寬使用放寬使用比如說他擁有這一塊土地他能夠有幾位議員有提到了可以跟做銀行的一個融資貸款這是一個好的政策\n\n03:29.474 --> 03:39.608\n第二、我們擁有了原保地,我們如何善用我們自己的土地,能夠營造我們自己的一個經濟產業。這是一個重點。你來回答。\n\n03:44.956 --> 04:06.868\n對委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分的確我也私下跟我們同仁講他的說明會的內容太專業了反而讓主任聽不懂所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會我們改變那個說明會的方式用簡便的用懶人包的方式讓我們的主任聽得懂這一點我們會再做改善這本來就應該你們這樣做的嘛因為\n\n04:09.149 --> 04:29.651\n層次上我們不是說他們聽不懂是要用我們自己的方法方式比如說我跟老人家在對談的時候有時候我用國語去對談他不見得會聽得懂但是我要用母語跟老人家對談的時候他聽得懂原因在哪裡這就是根本嘛\n\n04:30.748 --> 04:48.938\n特別是浪費公帑啊那你們到處說我們要為了因應我們行政院長包含總統然後我要到處來做先討我們國土計畫法的政策結果囂張不利第二個有聽沒有的統治鄉親抱怨\n\n04:50.066 --> 05:02.861\n那是不是你們政府把我們的土地要收編限縮了開發的這個農地也限縮了我們原住民的保留地這是一個非常嚴重的\n\n05:03.663 --> 05:32.114\n那是不是政府想要獨通我們原住民的原保地這是很嚴重有人會用這種想法弄不好你們先導不好變成本末倒置倒過來誤會你們的政府今天推動的國土計畫法的政策裡面是好意還是惡意還是故意侵佔了我們自己的土地你來說明\n\n05:33.120 --> 05:56.963\n委員的確其實國土計劃法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的這個充分利用而不是給他們更多的限制也許在我們過去的說明當中可能說明的不夠清楚我們也贊同委員的指教就是阿努伊帝尼阿諾奧阿努阿夫基美登耶古瑪多阿塞爾頓諾歐拉米山諾阿密山山諾阿密山阿密內\n\n05:58.945 --> 06:04.448\n貝南屬有貝南屬的語言可以告訴給貝南屬祈禱。台灣屬有台灣屬的語言可以講。\n\n06:09.079 --> 06:31.946\n但是你要用害人去解釋這個立場上實在是主委你應該跟你們的高層好好的說陪同你們自己相關跟土地有關係的單位裡面跟產業有關係的進行來一起來做一個說明這才是一個真正對族人的尊重另外我特別要提出來這個報告順便給我\n\n06:34.167 --> 06:54.500\n我特別提出來是我們現在全國裡面的文康站、文件站全國裡面有503個文件站那有沒有增加不曉得我必須要講的現在4月份應聲要把電價應聲要漲價\n\n06:58.601 --> 07:04.049\n今天所有的計劃的方案包含他要承載承擔的電費今年對新\n\n07:09.717 --> 07:35.200\n報告完畢了那你們應申4月份漲價的時候有沒有因應的貼補的政策針對這個503個文件站很多文件站在反映你們漲價了變成他所有的這些預算裡面他必須要必須要墊出墊出這個費用你們有沒有補貼的一個政策\n\n07:35.814 --> 07:55.685\n衡委員報告如果因為電價漲價影響到文件商的營運我們會在業務費這個部分來做一個調整我看不出來你的業務費可以調整什麼東西你們都知道四月份都要漲價了四月份漲價你們本來第一時間你們常常自以為好的是什麼\n\n07:56.925 --> 08:18.890\n文獻戰是你們在執政的時候推展出來的造成這個文獻戰的效應非常好也年輕了兩歲以上能夠讓老人家互相在文獻戰裡面能夠情感交流包含記憶上的技術能夠延伸文化的延伸可是\n\n08:19.770 --> 08:36.064\n你們在4月份的時候在還沒有漲價之前你們本來就應該要針對這個政策要因應來告訴給全國的文件站我們有補貼的一個政策嘛是嗎這個部分針對電費漲價這個部分我們會做因應什麼時候\n\n08:43.453 --> 09:09.673\n實務的狀況因為比如說一個文件它到底它的電費的不用嘛按照你們現在賬的11%的電價然後今天文件站所開設的這一些文件站他們所承載的電力你們按照承載的電力裡面作為貼補補償的一個角色所以這個報告一個禮拜給我好不好好謝謝\n\n09:13.196 --> 09:13.819\n謝謝黃汝委員、謝謝江組委、謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.504,"end":10.888,"text":"謝謝主席有請主委有請一江主委這是我第一次你好這第一次諮詢那針對國土計畫法造成了全國原住民的衝擊"},{"start":29.488,"end":43.102,"text":"你有沒有因應的對策那第二個是現在國土計畫法限縮在農業的發展包含原住民族自己的土地裡面那有什麼樣的衝擊你來解釋一個"},{"start":49.124,"end":76.422,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們針對國土計畫法的整個在推動的過程當中我們都是滾動的修正聽起民眾的需求來做處理包括像對原住民居住的問題我們用透過陳山跟農事的方式來解決他們居住的問題那甚至我們遂時際已的傳統的地方的使用的這個土地使用這個部分我們都會跟"},{"start":77.442,"end":102.36,"text":"內政部來做處理包括我們的土地使用規則也正在跟內政部做一個意見交換草案也差不多要定案了而且在幾年前我訪視過各部落各鄉鎮我瞭解你們當時行政院委辦給顧問公司來到各鄉鎮來做一個說明在各鄉鎮說明的國土計畫法裡面"},{"start":105.622,"end":120.043,"text":"很多部落的人參加有聽沒有懂非常有聽沒有懂而且當時我就第一時間告訴給各鄉鎮部落因為我左方各部落裡面有聽起來他們的一些心聲"},{"start":121.464,"end":136.998,"text":"聽起來他們心生對國土計畫法的這樣的一個草率的決定這樣的一個做法對我們整個全國也好或是針對原住民也好真的是非常的不利"},{"start":137.864,"end":163.179,"text":"那你們現在好現在計畫要延後個兩年那這兩年裡面有什麼樣的一個更好因地制宜因地制宜的政策那第二個是原住民族擁有的保留土地有沒有放寬的來因應這個政策"},{"start":164.159,"end":187.638,"text":"所謂的放寬就是我們有自己的原住民的土地在不影響山坡地跟他的林務用地之外那當然在他的擁有自己的原保地有什麼樣的開放政策這是第一個那我想這個報告你們提出來給我一份就是"},{"start":188.59,"end":208.753,"text":"有沒有可能針對原住民的保留地的放寬使用放寬使用比如說他擁有這一塊土地他能夠有幾位議員有提到了可以跟做銀行的一個融資貸款這是一個好的政策"},{"start":209.474,"end":219.608,"text":"第二、我們擁有了原保地,我們如何善用我們自己的土地,能夠營造我們自己的一個經濟產業。這是一個重點。你來回答。"},{"start":224.956,"end":246.868,"text":"對委員剛剛提到那個說明會的部分的確我也私下跟我們同仁講他的說明會的內容太專業了反而讓主任聽不懂所以未來到年底之前的整個說明會我們改變那個說明會的方式用簡便的用懶人包的方式讓我們的主任聽得懂這一點我們會再做改善這本來就應該你們這樣做的嘛因為"},{"start":249.149,"end":269.651,"text":"層次上我們不是說他們聽不懂是要用我們自己的方法方式比如說我跟老人家在對談的時候有時候我用國語去對談他不見得會聽得懂但是我要用母語跟老人家對談的時候他聽得懂原因在哪裡這就是根本嘛"},{"start":270.748,"end":288.938,"text":"特別是浪費公帑啊那你們到處說我們要為了因應我們行政院長包含總統然後我要到處來做先討我們國土計畫法的政策結果囂張不利第二個有聽沒有的統治鄉親抱怨"},{"start":290.066,"end":302.861,"text":"那是不是你們政府把我們的土地要收編限縮了開發的這個農地也限縮了我們原住民的保留地這是一個非常嚴重的"},{"start":303.663,"end":332.114,"text":"那是不是政府想要獨通我們原住民的原保地這是很嚴重有人會用這種想法弄不好你們先導不好變成本末倒置倒過來誤會你們的政府今天推動的國土計畫法的政策裡面是好意還是惡意還是故意侵佔了我們自己的土地你來說明"},{"start":333.12,"end":356.963,"text":"委員的確其實國土計劃法真正的目的是怎麼樣讓原住民的土地可以更好的這個充分利用而不是給他們更多的限制也許在我們過去的說明當中可能說明的不夠清楚我們也贊同委員的指教就是阿努伊帝尼阿諾奧阿努阿夫基美登耶古瑪多阿塞爾頓諾歐拉米山諾阿密山山諾阿密山阿密內"},{"start":358.945,"end":364.448,"text":"貝南屬有貝南屬的語言可以告訴給貝南屬祈禱。 台灣屬有台灣屬的語言可以講。"},{"start":369.079,"end":391.946,"text":"但是你要用害人去解釋這個立場上實在是主委你應該跟你們的高層好好的說陪同你們自己相關跟土地有關係的單位裡面跟產業有關係的進行來一起來做一個說明這才是一個真正對族人的尊重另外我特別要提出來這個報告順便給我"},{"start":394.167,"end":414.5,"text":"我特別提出來是我們現在全國裡面的文康站、文件站全國裡面有503個文件站那有沒有增加不曉得我必須要講的現在4月份應聲要把電價應聲要漲價"},{"start":418.601,"end":424.049,"text":"今天所有的計劃的方案包含他要承載承擔的電費今年對新"},{"start":429.717,"end":455.2,"text":"報告完畢了那你們應申4月份漲價的時候有沒有因應的貼補的政策針對這個503個文件站很多文件站在反映你們漲價了變成他所有的這些預算裡面他必須要必須要墊出墊出這個費用你們有沒有補貼的一個政策"},{"start":455.814,"end":475.685,"text":"衡委員報告如果因為電價漲價影響到文件商的營運我們會在業務費這個部分來做一個調整我看不出來你的業務費可以調整什麼東西你們都知道四月份都要漲價了四月份漲價你們本來第一時間你們常常自以為好的是什麼"},{"start":476.925,"end":498.89,"text":"文獻戰是你們在執政的時候推展出來的造成這個文獻戰的效應非常好也年輕了兩歲以上能夠讓老人家互相在文獻戰裡面能夠情感交流包含記憶上的技術能夠延伸文化的延伸可是"},{"start":499.77,"end":516.064,"text":"你們在4月份的時候在還沒有漲價之前你們本來就應該要針對這個政策要因應來告訴給全國的文件站我們有補貼的一個政策嘛是嗎這個部分針對電費漲價這個部分我們會做因應什麼時候"},{"start":523.453,"end":549.673,"text":"實務的狀況因為比如說一個文件它到底它的電費的不用嘛按照你們現在賬的11%的電價然後今天文件站所開設的這一些文件站他們所承載的電力你們按照承載的電力裡面作為貼補補償的一個角色所以這個報告一個禮拜給我好不好好謝謝"},{"start":553.196,"end":553.819,"text":"謝謝黃汝委員、謝謝江組委、謝謝"}]}}}}