{"id":150741,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150741","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c01d9188fd66155768f7510a295be7434bf8ba9b0039caa7a61c7a1f58fb7c6e965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:00:15 - 11:10:45","影片長度":"00:10:30","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程。(二)如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策。(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形。(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展。(五)原住民族學校法立法推動情形。(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形。(七)如何改善原住民族語言推動組織之需求。(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討。(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」。(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃。(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形。(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之困境。(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形。(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並落實老幼共學政策。(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育規劃。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(僅詢答)【4月1日及3日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-9"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":630,"end_time":"2024-04-01T11:10:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T11:00:15+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":516,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時）謝謝主席，請夷將主委。"],["主席：有請夷將主委。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：夷將主委您好，我想請教一下夷將主委，在2016年1月的時候，總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內，我一定要讓原住民族實施自治踏出第一步，並且更應該思考給族人更多的支持跟支援，為族人創造更多的公平發展，實現經濟自主的機會。請問主委，原住民族的自治實施了嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，其實自治的範圍很多元，我覺得有一些已經在實施。"],["許委員宇甄：比如哪些呢？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：比如說大院通過原住民族語言發展法，我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語發公文，這是很具體的自治第一步。還有礦業法經過六年討論以後終於通過了，原來的79個礦場現在都要經過當地部落的諮商同意，這就是部落本身自治很重要的一個做法。"],["許委員宇甄：所以主委的意思是原住民族自治指的就是這樣嗎？就這兩點嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：自治當然不是只有這個樣子，但是我跟委員報告我們國家的自治，即便自治法還沒有通過的這個時候，之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，我想請教你，我們原鄉目前的自治法源，比如選舉區長、代表是根據地方制度法來制定，直轄市原本的原住民區長沒辦法從選舉產生，這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法，這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大，請問一下所謂原住民自治的部分，你擔任原民會主委八年了，這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：正如剛剛跟委員報告的，我們應該是這樣，所謂自治專法的部分還沒有通過，這是事實沒有錯，但是對我來講，那個是母法，雖然母法還沒有出生，但反而很多子法在大院各位的支持之下已經逐步推動，包括我們修了原住民族教育法，很多民族教育的部分已經有實際推動的狀況。"],["許委員宇甄：我想已經八年了，這個腳步真的有一點慢，不管是我們召委或是這些原住民的立法委員，對於原住民相關的權益跟立法，其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步，尤其是在107年第一次原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候，當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示，原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍、自治權限、固定財源，自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生，民進黨也執政八年了，為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：就剛剛跟委員報告的，我們這幾年的自治推動方向是採取分流立法的方式，不是用一個專法來推動，其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程。"],["許委員宇甄：你覺得進步的幅度大嗎？八年了！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：就像剛剛委員所指教的，在馬政府的時候，因為地方制度法把六都的原住民區明顯產生，那也是一個自治的進步。"],["許委員宇甄：所以是馬總統時期推動的就對了？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：就是政府推動的……"],["許委員宇甄：這八年應該是沒有推動就對了？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：也有。"],["許委員宇甄：現在提不出自治法到底是原民會的問題還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我可以舉一個例子給委員做參考，我們過去有5個自治法版本，除非我們要達成共識，比如像臺東、花蓮原住民人口最多的地方是不是可以讓原住民劃在自治區裡面？這就是自治的方向……"],["許委員宇甄：所以主委，我的問題是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：不是提不出來，我們過去都往這個方向去推動，但是在大院審議的時候就沒有辦法審議。"],["許委員宇甄：我再請教您，你知道2015年立法院第7會期、第8會期，在馬英九總統執政的時期，立法院曾經有機會通過原住民族自治暫行條例嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：後來好像也沒有通過。"],["許委員宇甄：對，沒有推動，為什麼？當時的原住民委員包括我們的高金召委，還有剛剛發言提案的鄭天財委員、廖國棟委員、孔文吉委員，甚至是已故的簡東明委員，全部都簽署了協商結論，最後卻功虧一簣，主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這個狀況我瞭解得不是很清楚。"],["許委員宇甄：好，本席告訴你，就是當時的民進黨主席蔡英文。我們來看一段新聞影片，請播放。","（播放影片）"],["許委員宇甄：主委，您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任，你說國民黨政府所提出的原住民自治是鳥籠自治，請問一下，你擔任原民會主委八年了，你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來，那豈不是變成原住民之狼了？因為騙我們原住民已經八年了……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我想委員這樣的指控是我沒辦法接受的。"],["許委員宇甄：你現在任期剩沒幾天了，請問一下，你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：正如剛剛跟委員報告的，原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒辦法通過，我們通過原住民族語言發展法……"],["許委員宇甄：當時沒有通過的原因剛剛有提出來，是當時的民進黨主席蔡英文不通過，再來就是……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我講的是原住民族語言發展法，不是自治法喔！"],["許委員宇甄：我現在跟你提的是原住民自治法，我沒有在跟你提原住民族語言發展法。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：語言發展法就是自治的一種項目。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，我想請教您，你沒有提出原住民自治法版本，但是有幾個計畫卻剽竊其他原住民立委的成果，第一個就是原住民保留地禁伐補償條例，這個法案是高金召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推，你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這是錢坑法案，現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績，你這樣的做法對得起高金召委、對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我想我從來沒有剽竊過禁伐補償這樣的說法，我過去也都公開講，這個禁伐補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過，但是我跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：現在你們的報告裡面有這樣的一個政績喔！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我要跟委員報告，我們後來又修禁伐補償條例，這個部分請你參考一下。"],["許委員宇甄：因為時間的關係，最後再請召委給我2分鐘的時間。我們現在再來探討幾個標案，原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊，112年原決標金額是112萬，今年1月又有一個變更契約，決標金額是43.3萬，兩個加起來是155.3萬，這個刊物主要是紀念什麼？每年都有施政成果報告，為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，我們原民會歷年從第一任華加志開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告，不是我們原民會這個時候才做的，從27年前華主委擔任的時候就有了，我可以把這個資料提供給委員做一個參考。"],["許委員宇甄：所以主委您的意思是每一年都有這樣的一個成果展，是嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：都有。"],["許委員宇甄：我再請教你一下，這個標案還不是最誇張的，你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務採標案是夷將．拔路兒主委成果專刊嗎？這個決標金額是145萬，已經決標了，都已經有8年成果的專刊，為什麼還要為你自己出一份個人的畢業專刊？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，在我之前的林江義主委也有出版，還有孫大川主委也出版過，所以我不是第一次，歷年來都是這樣做的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以您的意思就是說，每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的個人刊物？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：不是，不是自己的。"],["許委員宇甄：然後來浪費公帑……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員誤會了，不是自己的。"],["許委員宇甄：為自己的形象來做這樣的專刊嗎？本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑，你既然已經有一個8年的成果展，不該再為自己出一個專刊，所以本席認為……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：8年的成果展，跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑，我覺得實在是非常離譜喔！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們是在辦國際會議，讓我們的原民政策……"],["許委員宇甄：以上我的質詢到這邊結束，謝謝，謝謝召委。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：讓其他的國家也都參與……"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢，謝謝，謝謝夷將主委。對於原住民禁伐補償，我們會提高金額，召委我在15號也會排，也希望主委能夠支持，謝謝。","繼續我們請吳琪銘委員來質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-9","speakers":["高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","黃建賓","麥玉珍","王美惠","張智倫","黃仁","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","黃捷","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林倩綺","黃國昌","盧縣一","蘇巧慧","丁學忠","陳培瑜"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民\n族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民\n族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程、 ( 二) 如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策、\n(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形、(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展、(五)\n原住民族學校法立法推動情形、(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形、(七)如何改善原住民族語言推\n動組織之需求、(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討、(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益\n之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」、(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃、\n(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形、(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之\n困境、(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形、(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並\n落實老幼共學政策、(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育\n規劃；二、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草\n案」案。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1132201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150741","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150741","tool":"pyannote","id":"150741-pyannote"},"job_id":"mB484berN0Bq33Vv","queued_at":"2024-06-01 15:45:26","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 15:45:26","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150741"},{"time":"2024-06-01 15:45:27","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c01d9188fd66155768f7510a295be7434b276277712aec197840a1818b981201f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 15:45:44","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 15:45:45","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-01 15:45:57","msg":"status: 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{\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 548.915, \"end\": 549.055, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 549.055, \"end\": 549.576, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 549.576, \"end\": 549.776, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 549.776, \"end\": 549.996, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 549.996, \"end\": 550.176, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 550.176, \"end\": 550.196, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 551.195, \"end\": 572.565, \"text\": \"二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 551.195, \"end\": 551.355, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 551.355, \"end\": 551.555, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 551.555, \"end\": 551.735, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 551.735, \"end\": 551.955, \"score\": 0.987}, 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627.175, \"end\": 627.316, \"score\": 0.464}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 627.316, \"end\": 627.497, \"score\": 0.594}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 627.497, \"end\": 627.618, \"score\": 0.622}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 627.618, \"end\": 627.638, \"score\": 0.548}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 627.638, \"end\": 627.659, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"償\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,625\n謝謝主席請移將主委有請移將主委\n\n2\n00:00:19,631 --> 00:00:42,965\n議長主委您好我想請教一下議長主委在2016年1月的時候總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內我一定要讓原住民族的實施自治踏出第一步並且更應該思考要給族人更多的支持跟支援為族人創造更多的公平發展實現經濟自主的機會請問主委\n\n3\n00:00:46,767 --> 00:01:05,565\n原住民族的自治實施了嗎?根委報告其實自治的範圍是很多元的那我覺得有一些已經在實施了比如說呢?哪些?比如說我們大宴通過因為大宴通過原住民族語言發展法\n\n4\n00:01:06,286 --> 00:01:17,180\n我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語來發公文這是很具體的自治的一個第一步還有這個礦礦業法經過6年的整個討論以後終於礦業法通過了現在在\n\n5\n00:01:23,993 --> 00:01:38,465\n原來的這個79礦的礦場都要經過當地部落的諮商同意這個就是部落本身自治的一個很重要的那所以在主委的意思就是說原住民族的自治指的就是這樣嗎\n\n6\n00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:57,960\n自治當然不是就這個樣子但是我跟委員報告其實我們國家的自治即便自治法沒有過的這個時候之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了主委我想請教你就是我們原鄉目前的自治的法源比如說選舉區長、代表是\n\n7\n00:02:01,584 --> 00:02:27,647\n根據地方制度法來制定的那這直轄市原本原住民的區長沒有辦法從選舉的產生這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大那請問一下所謂的原住民自治的部分你擔任原民會的主委8年了那這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢\n\n8\n00:02:28,854 --> 00:02:51,553\n我剛剛就鄭董剛剛跟委員報告的地方就是我們應該是這樣所謂的自治專法這個部分還沒有通過這是事實沒有錯但是對我來講那個是母法但是母法還沒有出生其實反而很多執法各位大院的支持之下已經逐步在推動像包括我們修了這個原住民族教育法\n\n9\n00:02:52,153 --> 00:03:10,668\n很多民主教育的部分其實已經持續來推動向了一個方向。我想已經8年了這個腳步真的有點慢了那我想不管是我們召委或是我們原住民的這些立法委員其實對於原住民的這些希望相關的這樣的權益跟立法其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步那尤其是在107年的時候這個\n\n10\n00:03:13,570 --> 00:03:35,291\n第一次的原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍自治的權限固定裁員自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生那民進黨也執政8年了為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議\n\n11\n00:03:37,409 --> 00:03:55,982\n就剛剛跟委員報告的是我們這幾年的自治推動的方向是採取分流立法的方式不是用一個專法來推動那其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程你覺得進步的幅度到嗎八年了\n\n12\n00:03:56,662 --> 00:04:21,850\n就像剛剛委員所指教的就是在馬政府的時候因為地方自治法把六都的這個原住民的區有明顯產生那個也是一個自治的進步啊所以是馬總統時期推動的就對98年應該是沒有推動就對所以現在提不出自治法到底是你原民會的問題還是是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出\n\n13\n00:04:23,551 --> 00:04:37,672\n我可以舉一個例子給委員做個參考我們過去五個版本的自治版本除非我們要達成控制比如像臺東花蓮原住民人口最多的地方\n\n14\n00:04:38,292 --> 00:05:04,894\n是不是可以讓原住民化在自治區裡面所以主委我的問題是是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出不是提不出來我們過去都往這個方向去推動但是在大宴審議的時候就沒有辦法審議那我再請教您就是你知道2015年立法院第7會期第8會期馬英文總統執政的時期立法院曾經有機會先通過原住民族自治推動條例嗎\n\n15\n00:05:12,803 --> 00:05:29,934\n因為當時的原住民的委員包括我們高金昭委還有剛剛有發言的提案的鄭天才委員廖國棟委員孔文吉委員甚至已故的簡東明委員全部都簽署了協商結論最後卻功虧一簣主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論的\n\n16\n00:05:32,780 --> 00:05:43,729\n這個我了解的狀況不是很清楚好那本席告訴你就是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文好我們來看一段新聞影片請播放\n\n17\n00:05:47,449 --> 00:05:51,331\n原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程\n\n18\n00:06:02,597 --> 00:06:29,836\n立法院長王金平表示民進黨看好2016年總統大選好像會執政所以對政院版提出的草案很敏感強調要再多溝通而民進黨原住民族事務部主任對於為何反對目前政院版的自治推動條例草案也提出回應自治推動條例裡面要讓原住民有分配統籌款的話我們是支持的喔你只要在你的推動自治條例裡面有劃定明確的自治期給原住民\n\n19\n00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:31,401\n民進黨認為國民黨提出的\n\n20\n00:06:43,227 --> 00:06:59,964\n主委您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任你說國民黨政府所提出的這個原住民的自治是鳥籠自治那請問一下你擔任原民會的主委8年了你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來\n\n21\n00:07:00,965 --> 00:07:15,145\n那豈不是變了原住民之狼了因為騙我們的原住民已經騙了8年現在任期剩沒幾天了請問一下你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎\n\n22\n00:07:16,867 --> 00:07:36,693\n原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒有辦法通過我們通過了原住民族語言發展法當時沒有通過我剛剛有提出來是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文不通過我講了原住民族語言發展法不是自治法我現在跟您提的是原住民自治法我沒有再跟你提原住民語言發展法主委我想請教您就是原住民自治法\n\n23\n00:07:40,774 --> 00:08:08,197\n你沒有提出版本但是有幾個計畫就是有剽竊其他原住民立委的成果第一個就是原住民保留地的禁法補償條例這個法案是高津召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這個是乾坑法案現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績你這樣的做法對得起高津召委對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎\n\n24\n00:08:09,358 --> 00:08:23,724\n我從來沒有剽竊過這個進法補償這樣的一個說法我過去都也都公開講這個進法補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過的那現在你們的報告裡是有這樣的一個證據\n\n25\n00:08:24,764 --> 00:08:30,987\n跟委員報告我們後來又修了進法補償條例因為時間的關係最後請召委再給我兩分鐘的時間我們現在再來探討幾個標案就原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊112年原決標金額是112萬今年1月又有一個變更期約決標金額是43.3萬兩個加起來是155.3萬這個刊物主要是想紀念什麼\n\n26\n00:08:54,358 --> 00:09:10,196\n施政成果不是每年都有報告,為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告?這是我們原民會歷年從畫家自第一任開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告不是我們原民會這個時候才做的\n\n27\n00:09:11,195 --> 00:09:32,565\n二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎\n\n28\n00:09:34,647 --> 00:09:57,361\n這個絕標金額是145萬已經絕標了都已經有8年的成果的專刊為什麼還要為你自己出一份自己個人的畢業專刊?跟委員報告在我之前的林將一主委也有出版還有孫大川主委也出版過所以您的意思就是說每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的一個個人刊物\n\n29\n00:09:58,161 --> 00:10:19,849\n然後來浪費公帑然後為自己的形象來這個做這樣的專刊嗎本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑你既然你這樣一個8年的成果展不該再為自己出一個專刊所以主席是認為原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑我覺得實在是非常離譜喔以上我的質詢到這邊結束謝謝謝謝趙偉讓其他的國家也多多多參考好謝謝徐宇貞委員的質詢謝謝謝謝一將主委\n\n30\n00:10:27,175 --> 00:10:27,659\n對於原住民進法補償\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8840\t10625\t謝謝主席請移將主委有請移將主委\n19631\t42965\t議長主委您好我想請教一下議長主委在2016年1月的時候總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內我一定要讓原住民族的實施自治踏出第一步並且更應該思考要給族人更多的支持跟支援為族人創造更多的公平發展實現經濟自主的機會請問主委\n46767\t65565\t原住民族的自治實施了嗎?根委報告其實自治的範圍是很多元的那我覺得有一些已經在實施了比如說呢?哪些?比如說我們大宴通過因為大宴通過原住民族語言發展法\n66286\t77180\t我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語來發公文這是很具體的自治的一個第一步還有這個礦礦業法經過6年的整個討論以後終於礦業法通過了現在在\n83993\t98465\t原來的這個79礦的礦場都要經過當地部落的諮商同意這個就是部落本身自治的一個很重要的那所以在主委的意思就是說原住民族的自治指的就是這樣嗎\n100140\t117960\t自治當然不是就這個樣子但是我跟委員報告其實我們國家的自治即便自治法沒有過的這個時候之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了主委我想請教你就是我們原鄉目前的自治的法源比如說選舉區長、代表是\n121584\t147647\t根據地方制度法來制定的那這直轄市原本原住民的區長沒有辦法從選舉的產生這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大那請問一下所謂的原住民自治的部分你擔任原民會的主委8年了那這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢\n148854\t171553\t我剛剛就鄭董剛剛跟委員報告的地方就是我們應該是這樣所謂的自治專法這個部分還沒有通過這是事實沒有錯但是對我來講那個是母法但是母法還沒有出生其實反而很多執法各位大院的支持之下已經逐步在推動像包括我們修了這個原住民族教育法\n172153\t190668\t很多民主教育的部分其實已經持續來推動向了一個方向。我想已經8年了這個腳步真的有點慢了那我想不管是我們召委或是我們原住民的這些立法委員其實對於原住民的這些希望相關的這樣的權益跟立法其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步那尤其是在107年的時候這個\n193570\t215291\t第一次的原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍自治的權限固定裁員自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生那民進黨也執政8年了為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議\n217409\t235982\t就剛剛跟委員報告的是我們這幾年的自治推動的方向是採取分流立法的方式不是用一個專法來推動那其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程你覺得進步的幅度到嗎八年了\n236662\t261850\t就像剛剛委員所指教的就是在馬政府的時候因為地方自治法把六都的這個原住民的區有明顯產生那個也是一個自治的進步啊所以是馬總統時期推動的就對98年應該是沒有推動就對所以現在提不出自治法到底是你原民會的問題還是是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出\n263551\t277672\t我可以舉一個例子給委員做個參考我們過去五個版本的自治版本除非我們要達成控制比如像臺東花蓮原住民人口最多的地方\n278292\t304894\t是不是可以讓原住民化在自治區裡面所以主委我的問題是是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出不是提不出來我們過去都往這個方向去推動但是在大宴審議的時候就沒有辦法審議那我再請教您就是你知道2015年立法院第7會期第8會期馬英文總統執政的時期立法院曾經有機會先通過原住民族自治推動條例嗎\n312803\t329934\t因為當時的原住民的委員包括我們高金昭委還有剛剛有發言的提案的鄭天才委員廖國棟委員孔文吉委員甚至已故的簡東明委員全部都簽署了協商結論最後卻功虧一簣主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論的\n332780\t343729\t這個我了解的狀況不是很清楚好那本席告訴你就是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文好我們來看一段新聞影片請播放\n347449\t351331\t原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程\n362597\t389836\t立法院長王金平表示民進黨看好2016年總統大選好像會執政所以對政院版提出的草案很敏感強調要再多溝通而民進黨原住民族事務部主任對於為何反對目前政院版的自治推動條例草案也提出回應自治推動條例裡面要讓原住民有分配統籌款的話我們是支持的喔你只要在你的推動自治條例裡面有劃定明確的自治期給原住民\n390580\t391401\t民進黨認為國民黨提出的\n403227\t419964\t主委您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任你說國民黨政府所提出的這個原住民的自治是鳥籠自治那請問一下你擔任原民會的主委8年了你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來\n420965\t435145\t那豈不是變了原住民之狼了因為騙我們的原住民已經騙了8年現在任期剩沒幾天了請問一下你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎\n436867\t456693\t原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒有辦法通過我們通過了原住民族語言發展法當時沒有通過我剛剛有提出來是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文不通過我講了原住民族語言發展法不是自治法我現在跟您提的是原住民自治法我沒有再跟你提原住民語言發展法主委我想請教您就是原住民自治法\n460774\t488197\t你沒有提出版本但是有幾個計畫就是有剽竊其他原住民立委的成果第一個就是原住民保留地的禁法補償條例這個法案是高津召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這個是乾坑法案現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績你這樣的做法對得起高津召委對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎\n489358\t503724\t我從來沒有剽竊過這個進法補償這樣的一個說法我過去都也都公開講這個進法補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過的那現在你們的報告裡是有這樣的一個證據\n504764\t510987\t跟委員報告我們後來又修了進法補償條例因為時間的關係最後請召委再給我兩分鐘的時間我們現在再來探討幾個標案就原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊112年原決標金額是112萬今年1月又有一個變更期約決標金額是43.3萬兩個加起來是155.3萬這個刊物主要是想紀念什麼\n534358\t550196\t施政成果不是每年都有報告,為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告?這是我們原民會歷年從畫家自第一任開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告不是我們原民會這個時候才做的\n551195\t572565\t二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎\n574647\t597361\t這個絕標金額是145萬已經絕標了都已經有8年的成果的專刊為什麼還要為你自己出一份自己個人的畢業專刊?跟委員報告在我之前的林將一主委也有出版還有孫大川主委也出版過所以您的意思就是說每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的一個個人刊物\n598161\t619849\t然後來浪費公帑然後為自己的形象來這個做這樣的專刊嗎本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑你既然你這樣一個8年的成果展不該再為自己出一個專刊所以主席是認為原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑我覺得實在是非常離譜喔以上我的質詢到這邊結束謝謝謝謝趙偉讓其他的國家也多多多參考好謝謝徐宇貞委員的質詢謝謝謝謝一將主委\n627175\t627659\t對於原住民進法補償\n","txt":"謝謝主席請移將主委有請移將主委\n議長主委您好我想請教一下議長主委在2016年1月的時候總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內我一定要讓原住民族的實施自治踏出第一步並且更應該思考要給族人更多的支持跟支援為族人創造更多的公平發展實現經濟自主的機會請問主委\n原住民族的自治實施了嗎?根委報告其實自治的範圍是很多元的那我覺得有一些已經在實施了比如說呢?哪些?比如說我們大宴通過因為大宴通過原住民族語言發展法\n我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語來發公文這是很具體的自治的一個第一步還有這個礦礦業法經過6年的整個討論以後終於礦業法通過了現在在\n原來的這個79礦的礦場都要經過當地部落的諮商同意這個就是部落本身自治的一個很重要的那所以在主委的意思就是說原住民族的自治指的就是這樣嗎\n自治當然不是就這個樣子但是我跟委員報告其實我們國家的自治即便自治法沒有過的這個時候之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了主委我想請教你就是我們原鄉目前的自治的法源比如說選舉區長、代表是\n根據地方制度法來制定的那這直轄市原本原住民的區長沒有辦法從選舉的產生這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大那請問一下所謂的原住民自治的部分你擔任原民會的主委8年了那這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢\n我剛剛就鄭董剛剛跟委員報告的地方就是我們應該是這樣所謂的自治專法這個部分還沒有通過這是事實沒有錯但是對我來講那個是母法但是母法還沒有出生其實反而很多執法各位大院的支持之下已經逐步在推動像包括我們修了這個原住民族教育法\n很多民主教育的部分其實已經持續來推動向了一個方向。我想已經8年了這個腳步真的有點慢了那我想不管是我們召委或是我們原住民的這些立法委員其實對於原住民的這些希望相關的這樣的權益跟立法其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步那尤其是在107年的時候這個\n第一次的原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍自治的權限固定裁員自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生那民進黨也執政8年了為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議\n就剛剛跟委員報告的是我們這幾年的自治推動的方向是採取分流立法的方式不是用一個專法來推動那其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程你覺得進步的幅度到嗎八年了\n就像剛剛委員所指教的就是在馬政府的時候因為地方自治法把六都的這個原住民的區有明顯產生那個也是一個自治的進步啊所以是馬總統時期推動的就對98年應該是沒有推動就對所以現在提不出自治法到底是你原民會的問題還是是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出\n我可以舉一個例子給委員做個參考我們過去五個版本的自治版本除非我們要達成控制比如像臺東花蓮原住民人口最多的地方\n是不是可以讓原住民化在自治區裡面所以主委我的問題是是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出不是提不出來我們過去都往這個方向去推動但是在大宴審議的時候就沒有辦法審議那我再請教您就是你知道2015年立法院第7會期第8會期馬英文總統執政的時期立法院曾經有機會先通過原住民族自治推動條例嗎\n因為當時的原住民的委員包括我們高金昭委還有剛剛有發言的提案的鄭天才委員廖國棟委員孔文吉委員甚至已故的簡東明委員全部都簽署了協商結論最後卻功虧一簣主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論的\n這個我了解的狀況不是很清楚好那本席告訴你就是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文好我們來看一段新聞影片請播放\n原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程\n立法院長王金平表示民進黨看好2016年總統大選好像會執政所以對政院版提出的草案很敏感強調要再多溝通而民進黨原住民族事務部主任對於為何反對目前政院版的自治推動條例草案也提出回應自治推動條例裡面要讓原住民有分配統籌款的話我們是支持的喔你只要在你的推動自治條例裡面有劃定明確的自治期給原住民\n民進黨認為國民黨提出的\n主委您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任你說國民黨政府所提出的這個原住民的自治是鳥籠自治那請問一下你擔任原民會的主委8年了你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來\n那豈不是變了原住民之狼了因為騙我們的原住民已經騙了8年現在任期剩沒幾天了請問一下你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎\n原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒有辦法通過我們通過了原住民族語言發展法當時沒有通過我剛剛有提出來是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文不通過我講了原住民族語言發展法不是自治法我現在跟您提的是原住民自治法我沒有再跟你提原住民語言發展法主委我想請教您就是原住民自治法\n你沒有提出版本但是有幾個計畫就是有剽竊其他原住民立委的成果第一個就是原住民保留地的禁法補償條例這個法案是高津召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這個是乾坑法案現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績你這樣的做法對得起高津召委對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎\n我從來沒有剽竊過這個進法補償這樣的一個說法我過去都也都公開講這個進法補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過的那現在你們的報告裡是有這樣的一個證據\n跟委員報告我們後來又修了進法補償條例因為時間的關係最後請召委再給我兩分鐘的時間我們現在再來探討幾個標案就原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊112年原決標金額是112萬今年1月又有一個變更期約決標金額是43.3萬兩個加起來是155.3萬這個刊物主要是想紀念什麼\n施政成果不是每年都有報告,為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告?這是我們原民會歷年從畫家自第一任開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告不是我們原民會這個時候才做的\n二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎\n這個絕標金額是145萬已經絕標了都已經有8年的成果的專刊為什麼還要為你自己出一份自己個人的畢業專刊?跟委員報告在我之前的林將一主委也有出版還有孫大川主委也出版過所以您的意思就是說每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的一個個人刊物\n然後來浪費公帑然後為自己的形象來這個做這樣的專刊嗎本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑你既然你這樣一個8年的成果展不該再為自己出一個專刊所以主席是認為原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑我覺得實在是非常離譜喔以上我的質詢到這邊結束謝謝謝謝趙偉讓其他的國家也多多多參考好謝謝徐宇貞委員的質詢謝謝謝謝一將主委\n對於原住民進法補償\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.840 --> 00:10.625\n謝謝主席請移將主委有請移將主委\n\n00:19.631 --> 00:42.965\n議長主委您好我想請教一下議長主委在2016年1月的時候總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內我一定要讓原住民族的實施自治踏出第一步並且更應該思考要給族人更多的支持跟支援為族人創造更多的公平發展實現經濟自主的機會請問主委\n\n00:46.767 --> 01:05.565\n原住民族的自治實施了嗎?根委報告其實自治的範圍是很多元的那我覺得有一些已經在實施了比如說呢?哪些?比如說我們大宴通過因為大宴通過原住民族語言發展法\n\n01:06.286 --> 01:17.180\n我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語來發公文這是很具體的自治的一個第一步還有這個礦礦業法經過6年的整個討論以後終於礦業法通過了現在在\n\n01:23.993 --> 01:38.465\n原來的這個79礦的礦場都要經過當地部落的諮商同意這個就是部落本身自治的一個很重要的那所以在主委的意思就是說原住民族的自治指的就是這樣嗎\n\n01:40.140 --> 01:57.960\n自治當然不是就這個樣子但是我跟委員報告其實我們國家的自治即便自治法沒有過的這個時候之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了主委我想請教你就是我們原鄉目前的自治的法源比如說選舉區長、代表是\n\n02:01.584 --> 02:27.647\n根據地方制度法來制定的那這直轄市原本原住民的區長沒有辦法從選舉的產生這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大那請問一下所謂的原住民自治的部分你擔任原民會的主委8年了那這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢\n\n02:28.854 --> 02:51.553\n我剛剛就鄭董剛剛跟委員報告的地方就是我們應該是這樣所謂的自治專法這個部分還沒有通過這是事實沒有錯但是對我來講那個是母法但是母法還沒有出生其實反而很多執法各位大院的支持之下已經逐步在推動像包括我們修了這個原住民族教育法\n\n02:52.153 --> 03:10.668\n很多民主教育的部分其實已經持續來推動向了一個方向。我想已經8年了這個腳步真的有點慢了那我想不管是我們召委或是我們原住民的這些立法委員其實對於原住民的這些希望相關的這樣的權益跟立法其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步那尤其是在107年的時候這個\n\n03:13.570 --> 03:35.291\n第一次的原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍自治的權限固定裁員自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生那民進黨也執政8年了為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議\n\n03:37.409 --> 03:55.982\n就剛剛跟委員報告的是我們這幾年的自治推動的方向是採取分流立法的方式不是用一個專法來推動那其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程你覺得進步的幅度到嗎八年了\n\n03:56.662 --> 04:21.850\n就像剛剛委員所指教的就是在馬政府的時候因為地方自治法把六都的這個原住民的區有明顯產生那個也是一個自治的進步啊所以是馬總統時期推動的就對98年應該是沒有推動就對所以現在提不出自治法到底是你原民會的問題還是是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出\n\n04:23.551 --> 04:37.672\n我可以舉一個例子給委員做個參考我們過去五個版本的自治版本除非我們要達成控制比如像臺東花蓮原住民人口最多的地方\n\n04:38.292 --> 05:04.894\n是不是可以讓原住民化在自治區裡面所以主委我的問題是是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出不是提不出來我們過去都往這個方向去推動但是在大宴審議的時候就沒有辦法審議那我再請教您就是你知道2015年立法院第7會期第8會期馬英文總統執政的時期立法院曾經有機會先通過原住民族自治推動條例嗎\n\n05:12.803 --> 05:29.934\n因為當時的原住民的委員包括我們高金昭委還有剛剛有發言的提案的鄭天才委員廖國棟委員孔文吉委員甚至已故的簡東明委員全部都簽署了協商結論最後卻功虧一簣主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論的\n\n05:32.780 --> 05:43.729\n這個我了解的狀況不是很清楚好那本席告訴你就是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文好我們來看一段新聞影片請播放\n\n05:47.449 --> 05:51.331\n原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程\n\n06:02.597 --> 06:29.836\n立法院長王金平表示民進黨看好2016年總統大選好像會執政所以對政院版提出的草案很敏感強調要再多溝通而民進黨原住民族事務部主任對於為何反對目前政院版的自治推動條例草案也提出回應自治推動條例裡面要讓原住民有分配統籌款的話我們是支持的喔你只要在你的推動自治條例裡面有劃定明確的自治期給原住民\n\n06:30.580 --> 06:31.401\n民進黨認為國民黨提出的\n\n06:43.227 --> 06:59.964\n主委您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任你說國民黨政府所提出的這個原住民的自治是鳥籠自治那請問一下你擔任原民會的主委8年了你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來\n\n07:00.965 --> 07:15.145\n那豈不是變了原住民之狼了因為騙我們的原住民已經騙了8年現在任期剩沒幾天了請問一下你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎\n\n07:16.867 --> 07:36.693\n原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒有辦法通過我們通過了原住民族語言發展法當時沒有通過我剛剛有提出來是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文不通過我講了原住民族語言發展法不是自治法我現在跟您提的是原住民自治法我沒有再跟你提原住民語言發展法主委我想請教您就是原住民自治法\n\n07:40.774 --> 08:08.197\n你沒有提出版本但是有幾個計畫就是有剽竊其他原住民立委的成果第一個就是原住民保留地的禁法補償條例這個法案是高津召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這個是乾坑法案現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績你這樣的做法對得起高津召委對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎\n\n08:09.358 --> 08:23.724\n我從來沒有剽竊過這個進法補償這樣的一個說法我過去都也都公開講這個進法補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過的那現在你們的報告裡是有這樣的一個證據\n\n08:24.764 --> 08:30.987\n跟委員報告我們後來又修了進法補償條例因為時間的關係最後請召委再給我兩分鐘的時間我們現在再來探討幾個標案就原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊112年原決標金額是112萬今年1月又有一個變更期約決標金額是43.3萬兩個加起來是155.3萬這個刊物主要是想紀念什麼\n\n08:54.358 --> 09:10.196\n施政成果不是每年都有報告,為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告?這是我們原民會歷年從畫家自第一任開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告不是我們原民會這個時候才做的\n\n09:11.195 --> 09:32.565\n二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎\n\n09:34.647 --> 09:57.361\n這個絕標金額是145萬已經絕標了都已經有8年的成果的專刊為什麼還要為你自己出一份自己個人的畢業專刊?跟委員報告在我之前的林將一主委也有出版還有孫大川主委也出版過所以您的意思就是說每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的一個個人刊物\n\n09:58.161 --> 10:19.849\n然後來浪費公帑然後為自己的形象來這個做這樣的專刊嗎本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑你既然你這樣一個8年的成果展不該再為自己出一個專刊所以主席是認為原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑我覺得實在是非常離譜喔以上我的質詢到這邊結束謝謝謝謝趙偉讓其他的國家也多多多參考好謝謝徐宇貞委員的質詢謝謝謝謝一將主委\n\n10:27.175 --> 10:27.659\n對於原住民進法補償\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.84,"end":10.625,"text":"謝謝主席請移將主委有請移將主委"},{"start":19.631,"end":42.965,"text":"議長主委您好我想請教一下議長主委在2016年1月的時候總統候選人蔡英文在中選會的政見發表會上說在我執政的任內我一定要讓原住民族的實施自治踏出第一步並且更應該思考要給族人更多的支持跟支援為族人創造更多的公平發展實現經濟自主的機會請問主委"},{"start":46.767,"end":65.565,"text":"原住民族的自治實施了嗎?根委報告其實自治的範圍是很多元的那我覺得有一些已經在實施了比如說呢?哪些?比如說我們大宴通過因為大宴通過原住民族語言發展法"},{"start":66.286,"end":77.18,"text":"我們的公所可以用我們自己的母語來發公文這是很具體的自治的一個第一步還有這個礦礦業法經過6年的整個討論以後終於礦業法通過了現在在"},{"start":83.993,"end":98.465,"text":"原來的這個79礦的礦場都要經過當地部落的諮商同意這個就是部落本身自治的一個很重要的那所以在主委的意思就是說原住民族的自治指的就是這樣嗎"},{"start":100.14,"end":117.96,"text":"自治當然不是就這個樣子但是我跟委員報告其實我們國家的自治即便自治法沒有過的這個時候之前我們很多地方的自治都已經開始推動了主委我想請教你就是我們原鄉目前的自治的法源比如說選舉區長、代表是"},{"start":121.584,"end":147.647,"text":"根據地方制度法來制定的那這直轄市原本原住民的區長沒有辦法從選舉的產生這是馬英九總統時期提出的行政院版本完成修法這個跟原住民自治法的立法差異也很大那請問一下所謂的原住民自治的部分你擔任原民會的主委8年了那這個部分為什麼到現在還沒有辦法實施呢"},{"start":148.854,"end":171.553,"text":"我剛剛就鄭董剛剛跟委員報告的地方就是我們應該是這樣所謂的自治專法這個部分還沒有通過這是事實沒有錯但是對我來講那個是母法但是母法還沒有出生其實反而很多執法各位大院的支持之下已經逐步在推動像包括我們修了這個原住民族教育法"},{"start":172.153,"end":190.668,"text":"很多民主教育的部分其實已經持續來推動向了一個方向。我想已經8年了這個腳步真的有點慢了那我想不管是我們召委或是我們原住民的這些立法委員其實對於原住民的這些希望相關的這樣的權益跟立法其實我覺得應該要加緊腳步那尤其是在107年的時候這個"},{"start":193.57,"end":215.291,"text":"第一次的原住民轉型正義會議召開的時候當時的蔡英文總統也明確指示原住民族的自治要有明確的空間範圍自治的權限固定裁員自治的架構則是要由原住民族與政府對等充分協商後產生那民進黨也執政8年了為什麼沒有提出行政院版本送立法院審議"},{"start":217.409,"end":235.982,"text":"就剛剛跟委員報告的是我們這幾年的自治推動的方向是採取分流立法的方式不是用一個專法來推動那其實它的成效反而是有在進步的過程你覺得進步的幅度到嗎八年了"},{"start":236.662,"end":261.85,"text":"就像剛剛委員所指教的就是在馬政府的時候因為地方自治法把六都的這個原住民的區有明顯產生那個也是一個自治的進步啊所以是馬總統時期推動的就對98年應該是沒有推動就對所以現在提不出自治法到底是你原民會的問題還是是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出"},{"start":263.551,"end":277.672,"text":"我可以舉一個例子給委員做個參考我們過去五個版本的自治版本除非我們要達成控制比如像臺東花蓮原住民人口最多的地方"},{"start":278.292,"end":304.894,"text":"是不是可以讓原住民化在自治區裡面所以主委我的問題是是你們提不出來還是蔡英文總統的執政團隊不讓你提出不是提不出來我們過去都往這個方向去推動但是在大宴審議的時候就沒有辦法審議那我再請教您就是你知道2015年立法院第7會期第8會期馬英文總統執政的時期立法院曾經有機會先通過原住民族自治推動條例嗎"},{"start":312.803,"end":329.934,"text":"因為當時的原住民的委員包括我們高金昭委還有剛剛有發言的提案的鄭天才委員廖國棟委員孔文吉委員甚至已故的簡東明委員全部都簽署了協商結論最後卻功虧一簣主委知不知道是誰不願意簽署協商結論的"},{"start":332.78,"end":343.729,"text":"這個我了解的狀況不是很清楚好那本席告訴你就是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文好我們來看一段新聞影片請播放"},{"start":347.449,"end":351.331,"text":"原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程"},{"start":362.597,"end":389.836,"text":"立法院長王金平表示民進黨看好2016年總統大選好像會執政所以對政院版提出的草案很敏感強調要再多溝通而民進黨原住民族事務部主任對於為何反對目前政院版的自治推動條例草案也提出回應自治推動條例裡面要讓原住民有分配統籌款的話我們是支持的喔你只要在你的推動自治條例裡面有劃定明確的自治期給原住民"},{"start":390.58,"end":391.401,"text":"民進黨認為國民黨提出的"},{"start":403.227,"end":419.964,"text":"主委您當時是民進黨原住民事務部的主任你說國民黨政府所提出的這個原住民的自治是鳥籠自治那請問一下你擔任原民會的主委8年了你卻連一個鳥籠自治都提不出來"},{"start":420.965,"end":435.145,"text":"那豈不是變了原住民之狼了因為騙我們的原住民已經騙了8年現在任期剩沒幾天了請問一下你有辦法在這個任期之內提出原住民自治法嗎"},{"start":436.867,"end":456.693,"text":"原住民族語言發展法在馬政府的時候都沒有辦法通過我們通過了原住民族語言發展法當時沒有通過我剛剛有提出來是當時的民進黨的主席蔡英文不通過我講了原住民族語言發展法不是自治法我現在跟您提的是原住民自治法我沒有再跟你提原住民語言發展法主委我想請教您就是原住民自治法"},{"start":460.774,"end":488.197,"text":"你沒有提出版本但是有幾個計畫就是有剽竊其他原住民立委的成果第一個就是原住民保留地的禁法補償條例這個法案是高津召委還有已故的簡東明委員、孔文吉委員主推你擔任民進黨原住民事務部主任時還認為這個是乾坑法案現在原民會竟然拿這個來當作自己的政績你這樣的做法對得起高津召委對得起已故的簡東明委員嗎"},{"start":489.358,"end":503.724,"text":"我從來沒有剽竊過這個進法補償這樣的一個說法我過去都也都公開講這個進法補償是在馬政府最後一年的時候通過的那現在你們的報告裡是有這樣的一個證據"},{"start":504.764,"end":510.987,"text":"跟委員報告我們後來又修了進法補償條例因為時間的關係最後請召委再給我兩分鐘的時間我們現在再來探討幾個標案就原民會有一個標案是原住民族委員會8年的施政成果專刊112年原決標金額是112萬今年1月又有一個變更期約決標金額是43.3萬兩個加起來是155.3萬這個刊物主要是想紀念什麼"},{"start":534.358,"end":550.196,"text":"施政成果不是每年都有報告,為什麼還要統整8年做一份成果報告?這是我們原民會歷年從畫家自第一任開始到現在都有這樣的一個成果報告不是我們原民會這個時候才做的"},{"start":551.195,"end":572.565,"text":"二十七年前華族委擔任的時候我可以把這個資料提供所以說主委您的意思就是每一年都有這樣子的一個成果展是嗎那我再請教你一下喔上面那樣這個標案還不是最誇張你知道原民會還有一個特別的勞務彩標案是一將拔落而主委成果專刊嗎"},{"start":574.647,"end":597.361,"text":"這個絕標金額是145萬已經絕標了都已經有8年的成果的專刊為什麼還要為你自己出一份自己個人的畢業專刊?跟委員報告在我之前的林將一主委也有出版還有孫大川主委也出版過所以您的意思就是說每一個主委都應該在卸任前要出一個自己的一個個人刊物"},{"start":598.161,"end":619.849,"text":"然後來浪費公帑然後為自己的形象來這個做這樣的專刊嗎本席是認為這樣子其實都在浪費人民的公帑你既然你這樣一個8年的成果展不該再為自己出一個專刊所以主席是認為原民會的主委利用政府做這樣子的公帑我覺得實在是非常離譜喔以上我的質詢到這邊結束謝謝謝謝趙偉讓其他的國家也多多多參考好謝謝徐宇貞委員的質詢謝謝謝謝一將主委"},{"start":627.175,"end":627.659,"text":"對於原住民進法補償"}]}}}}