{"id":150769,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150769","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0ab85665563f34e5a0ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a654c550af5f56c1715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"11:41:52 - 11:48:28","影片長度":"00:06:36","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[19,23],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":396,"end_time":"2024-04-01T11:48:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T11:41:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（11時41分）謝謝主席，有請龔主委。"],["主席：我們再請龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：陳委員好。"],["陳委員素月：主委早安。今天我們討論環島高速鐵路建設特別條例，本席先請教，目前國內已經完成的重大交通建設當中，有哪一件是由國發會來主導的？有嗎？主管的？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：交通建設基本上是沒有。"],["陳委員素月：沒有。環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案第四條明定，本條例之主管機關為國發會，如果今天這個草案通過了，很明顯就是破壞了這個體制，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，就不是既有的機制。"],["陳委員素月：不是既有的機制。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對。"],["陳委員素月：我們知道其實重大交通建設都有一定的流程，由主管業務單位提出可行性評估，然後還要先期規劃、環境影響評估等等，最後才會送到國發會來做審議，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員素月：所以由國發會來主導環島高速鐵路，等於就是球員兼裁判，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為在部會分工裡，交通部的鐵路法是有明定的，交通事業基本上是交通部主政，他們提出相關的可行跟綜合規劃，送到行政院，行政院會交給國發會來共同審議，分工是這個樣子。"],["陳委員素月：事實上我們也希望政府能夠依循一定的體制跟程序，才不會讓整個業務單位混亂掉了。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員素月：再來，我就環島高速鐵路這個議題來談。我們回想一下，記得當年高鐵剛剛通車的時候，那時候很多藍營的政治人物都在批評高鐵是廢鐵，不安全，可是經過這十幾年來的營運，證明高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具。今天國民黨提出環島高速鐵路建設特別條例，等於證明他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵，而且還要擴大到全島，當然我們也很高興看到國民黨今天的覺醒。對於這樣的國家重大建設，我們也希望要回歸專業的評估跟理性的討論。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員素月：我們來看條文第五條，說整個全計畫的建設完成以不逾十年為限，其實我覺得這樣的內容有點違反建設流程，也有點強人所難。以我們看到整個西部鐵路、高鐵建設的期程，都是有經驗可循的，過去從可行性研究、評估到核定計畫，到動工，一直到開始營運，有將近20年的時間。整個重大建設的推動，當然我們都是希望有一個願景，也希望能夠務實地來推動。對於整個環島高鐵的推動，國發會的立場，是不是可以再請主委說一下。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：按照程序來說的話，如果有需要，還是要請交通部啟動可行性研究分析，這個研究分析就會討論路廊到底要怎麼走、站要設在哪裡、要經過哪些地方，技術上可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難，財務怎麼樣做規劃，這些部分我們都需要認真地看待，越認真看待，真正後面施工才會順利，如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論，馬上就要決定，跳過這個程序的話，可能會遇到更多想不到的阻礙。所以我們還是認為已經有過去的經驗，而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他重大建設，按照這樣的程序，所有的挑戰也都一一突破了，雖然時間拉長，但是我們還是把它完成，現在營運也非常順利，這套機制其實已經存在，而且是可以信任的機制，所以我們還是希望循這個機制來辦理。"],["陳委員素月：我剛剛有提到當年高鐵剛剛通車的時候，國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵，這樣回想起來，我們也可以看得出來他們都是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評，最近這兩年我們還可以看到類似這樣的一個例子，就是高鐵延伸到屏東可行性計畫的核定，國民黨也是跳出來批評說延伸到屏東是畫大餅，可是今天他們提出來一個更大的交通建設的一個餅，當然這個是我們共同要追求的一個願景，我們也是支持啦！可是我們希望國民黨不要換了位置就換了腦袋，如果是對整個國家有利的一個交通建設，我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論，所以對於這個環島高速鐵路的草案，我們也希望能夠回歸專業，由交通部來啟動可行性評估，然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。所以在這邊我要再次重申，就是我們支持這個環島高速鐵路的願景，可是我們反對政治凌駕專業，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝！接下來我們請蔡易餘委員詢答。","主席台這邊宣告：我們中午不休息，延長時間到今天的會議結束，謝謝！"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:02,510\n主席\n\n2\n00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:16,816\n交通建設基本上是沒有\n\n3\n00:00:40,518 --> 00:00:54,971\n《環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案》案中第4條明定說本條例之主管機關為國發會,所以如果說這個草案通過了,那很明顯的就是破壞了這個體制,是不是?\n\n4\n00:00:56,413 --> 00:01:12,963\n對,既有的啦,就是既有的機制就不是既有的機制不是既有的機制,那我們知道說其實重大的交通建設都有一定的一個流程就是由這個主管的這個業務單位來提出可行性評估然後還要這個先期規劃這個環保的一個環境影響評估等等最後才會送到我們國發會來做審議\n\n5\n00:01:22,068 --> 00:01:27,892\n所以如果由國發會來主導這個環島高速鐵路等於就是求員兼裁判嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:27,892 --> 00:01:46,986\n是不是?是因為那個在部會分工裡面交通部的鐵路法是有明定的就是交通事業基本上是他們來做主政然後他們提出相關的這些可行跟綜合規劃送到行政院行政院會交給國發會來共同審議分工是這個樣子來做分工\n\n7\n00:01:47,386 --> 00:02:16,689\n事實上我們也希望就是說整個政府的體制我們還是希望它能夠有依循一定的一個體制跟程序這樣子才不會讓整個優單位都混亂掉了是那再來就是說就這個環島高速鐵路這個議題來談我們回想一下記得在當年這個高鐵剛剛通車的時候我記得那時候很多難贏的政治人物都在批評說高鐵是廢鐵不安全\n\n8\n00:02:17,629 --> 00:02:20,632\n高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具,所以今天國民黨提出《環島高速鐵路條例》,他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵,\n\n9\n00:02:38,710 --> 00:02:38,870\n李慧琼議員\n\n10\n00:02:59,777 --> 00:03:24,780\n這個第5條裡面他說整個全部計畫的建設完成以不遇時扭為限其實我覺得這樣子的一個內容我覺得也是有點在就是違反這樣子的建設的一個流程也有點強人所難因為以我們看到整個西部鐵路高鐵的一個建設的一個騎乘這個都是有經驗可循的\n\n11\n00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:46,470\n過去從可行性研究評估到核定計畫到動工一直到開始營運有20年的一個時間將近20年的一個時間所以對整個重大建設的一個推動當然我們都是希望有一個願景可是我們也希望就是說能夠務實的來一個推動所以對整個環島高鐵的一個推動\n\n12\n00:03:53,073 --> 00:04:10,305\n國發會的立場是不是可以再請主委再說一下?如果按照程序來的話,如果有需要的部分還是要請交通部啟動這個可行性的研究分析。這個研究分析當然他就會討論這個路廊到底要怎麼走。\n\n13\n00:04:11,225 --> 00:04:38,764\n站要設在哪裡然後要經過哪些地方可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難技術上部分然後財務怎麼樣做一些規劃這個部分我們都需要去認真的看待那越認真去看待來講的話真正後面施工才會順利如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論的話那馬上就要決定跳過這個程序的話可能會遇到想不到的一些阻礙更多\n\n14\n00:04:39,685 --> 00:05:02,411\n所以我們還是認為就是說過去的經驗已經在那邊而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他的重大建設按照這樣的程序也都所有挑戰也一一突破了雖然時間拉長但是我們還是把它完成現在營運也非常非常順利所以我們還是希望說這套機制已經存在而且是可以信任的機制我們希望循這個機制來辦理\n\n15\n00:05:06,913 --> 00:05:31,174\n我剛有提到當年在高鐵剛剛通車的時候國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵那這樣回想起來我們也可以看得出來他們就是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評這個部分我們從最近這兩年我們還可以看到一個例子就是高鐵延伸到屏東的這樣子的一個可行性的計畫的一個合併\n\n16\n00:05:32,975 --> 00:05:52,143\n國民黨也是跳出來批評說這個延伸到屏東是畫大餅那今天他們提出來更大的一個交通建設的一個餅當然這個都是我們共同要追求的一個願景我們也是支持啦可是我們是希望就是說國民黨不要就是說換了位子就換了腦袋\n\n17\n00:05:53,263 --> 00:06:02,809\n如果對整個國家有利的交通建設,我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論。所以對於整個環島高速鐵路的草案,我們也是希望能夠回歸專業,由交通部來做可行性的啟動評估,然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。\n\n18\n00:06:18,038 --> 00:06:29,174\n所以在這邊當然要再次的重申我們是支持環島高速鐵路的一個願景可是我們反對政治凌駕專業謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2410\t2510\t主席\n16016\t16816\t交通建設基本上是沒有\n40518\t54971\t《環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案》案中第4條明定說本條例之主管機關為國發會,所以如果說這個草案通過了,那很明顯的就是破壞了這個體制,是不是?\n56413\t72963\t對,既有的啦,就是既有的機制就不是既有的機制不是既有的機制,那我們知道說其實重大的交通建設都有一定的一個流程就是由這個主管的這個業務單位來提出可行性評估然後還要這個先期規劃這個環保的一個環境影響評估等等最後才會送到我們國發會來做審議\n82068\t87892\t所以如果由國發會來主導這個環島高速鐵路等於就是求員兼裁判嗎?\n87892\t106986\t是不是?是 因為那個在部會分工裡面交通部的鐵路法是有明定的就是交通事業基本上是他們來做主政然後他們提出相關的這些可行跟綜合規劃送到行政院行政院會交給國發會來共同審議分工是這個樣子來做分工\n107386\t136689\t事實上我們也希望就是說整個政府的體制我們還是希望它能夠有依循一定的一個體制跟程序這樣子才不會讓整個優單位都混亂掉了是那再來就是說就這個環島高速鐵路這個議題來談我們回想一下記得在當年這個高鐵剛剛通車的時候我記得那時候很多難贏的政治人物都在批評說高鐵是廢鐵不安全\n137629\t140632\t高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具,所以今天國民黨提出《環島高速鐵路條例》,他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵,\n158710\t158870\t李慧琼議員\n179777\t204780\t這個第5條裡面他說整個全部計畫的建設完成以不遇時扭為限其實我覺得這樣子的一個內容我覺得也是有點在就是違反這樣子的建設的一個流程也有點強人所難因為以我們看到整個西部鐵路高鐵的一個建設的一個騎乘這個都是有經驗可循的\n205660\t226470\t過去從可行性研究評估到核定計畫到動工一直到開始營運有20年的一個時間將近20年的一個時間所以對整個重大建設的一個推動當然我們都是希望有一個願景可是我們也希望就是說能夠務實的來一個推動所以對整個環島高鐵的一個推動\n233073\t250305\t國發會的立場是不是可以再請主委再說一下?如果按照程序來的話,如果有需要的部分還是要請交通部啟動這個可行性的研究分析。這個研究分析當然他就會討論這個路廊到底要怎麼走。\n251225\t278764\t站要設在哪裡然後要經過哪些地方可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難技術上部分然後財務怎麼樣做一些規劃這個部分我們都需要去認真的看待那越認真去看待來講的話真正後面施工才會順利如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論的話那馬上就要決定跳過這個程序的話可能會遇到想不到的一些阻礙更多\n279685\t302411\t所以我們還是認為就是說過去的經驗已經在那邊而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他的重大建設按照這樣的程序也都所有挑戰也一一突破了雖然時間拉長但是我們還是把它完成現在營運也非常非常順利所以我們還是希望說這套機制已經存在而且是可以信任的機制我們希望循這個機制來辦理\n306913\t331174\t我剛有提到當年在高鐵剛剛通車的時候國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵那這樣回想起來我們也可以看得出來他們就是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評這個部分我們從最近這兩年我們還可以看到一個例子就是高鐵延伸到屏東的這樣子的一個可行性的計畫的一個合併\n332975\t352143\t國民黨也是跳出來批評說這個延伸到屏東是畫大餅那今天他們提出來更大的一個交通建設的一個餅當然這個都是我們共同要追求的一個願景我們也是支持啦可是我們是希望就是說國民黨不要就是說換了位子就換了腦袋\n353263\t362809\t如果對整個國家有利的交通建設,我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論。所以對於整個環島高速鐵路的草案,我們也是希望能夠回歸專業,由交通部來做可行性的啟動評估,然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。\n378038\t389174\t所以在這邊當然要再次的重申我們是支持環島高速鐵路的一個願景可是我們反對政治凌駕專業 謝謝\n","txt":"主席\n交通建設基本上是沒有\n《環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案》案中第4條明定說本條例之主管機關為國發會,所以如果說這個草案通過了,那很明顯的就是破壞了這個體制,是不是?\n對,既有的啦,就是既有的機制就不是既有的機制不是既有的機制,那我們知道說其實重大的交通建設都有一定的一個流程就是由這個主管的這個業務單位來提出可行性評估然後還要這個先期規劃這個環保的一個環境影響評估等等最後才會送到我們國發會來做審議\n所以如果由國發會來主導這個環島高速鐵路等於就是求員兼裁判嗎?\n是不是?是 因為那個在部會分工裡面交通部的鐵路法是有明定的就是交通事業基本上是他們來做主政然後他們提出相關的這些可行跟綜合規劃送到行政院行政院會交給國發會來共同審議分工是這個樣子來做分工\n事實上我們也希望就是說整個政府的體制我們還是希望它能夠有依循一定的一個體制跟程序這樣子才不會讓整個優單位都混亂掉了是那再來就是說就這個環島高速鐵路這個議題來談我們回想一下記得在當年這個高鐵剛剛通車的時候我記得那時候很多難贏的政治人物都在批評說高鐵是廢鐵不安全\n高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具,所以今天國民黨提出《環島高速鐵路條例》,他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵,\n李慧琼議員\n這個第5條裡面他說整個全部計畫的建設完成以不遇時扭為限其實我覺得這樣子的一個內容我覺得也是有點在就是違反這樣子的建設的一個流程也有點強人所難因為以我們看到整個西部鐵路高鐵的一個建設的一個騎乘這個都是有經驗可循的\n過去從可行性研究評估到核定計畫到動工一直到開始營運有20年的一個時間將近20年的一個時間所以對整個重大建設的一個推動當然我們都是希望有一個願景可是我們也希望就是說能夠務實的來一個推動所以對整個環島高鐵的一個推動\n國發會的立場是不是可以再請主委再說一下?如果按照程序來的話,如果有需要的部分還是要請交通部啟動這個可行性的研究分析。這個研究分析當然他就會討論這個路廊到底要怎麼走。\n站要設在哪裡然後要經過哪些地方可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難技術上部分然後財務怎麼樣做一些規劃這個部分我們都需要去認真的看待那越認真去看待來講的話真正後面施工才會順利如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論的話那馬上就要決定跳過這個程序的話可能會遇到想不到的一些阻礙更多\n所以我們還是認為就是說過去的經驗已經在那邊而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他的重大建設按照這樣的程序也都所有挑戰也一一突破了雖然時間拉長但是我們還是把它完成現在營運也非常非常順利所以我們還是希望說這套機制已經存在而且是可以信任的機制我們希望循這個機制來辦理\n我剛有提到當年在高鐵剛剛通車的時候國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵那這樣回想起來我們也可以看得出來他們就是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評這個部分我們從最近這兩年我們還可以看到一個例子就是高鐵延伸到屏東的這樣子的一個可行性的計畫的一個合併\n國民黨也是跳出來批評說這個延伸到屏東是畫大餅那今天他們提出來更大的一個交通建設的一個餅當然這個都是我們共同要追求的一個願景我們也是支持啦可是我們是希望就是說國民黨不要就是說換了位子就換了腦袋\n如果對整個國家有利的交通建設,我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論。所以對於整個環島高速鐵路的草案,我們也是希望能夠回歸專業,由交通部來做可行性的啟動評估,然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。\n所以在這邊當然要再次的重申我們是支持環島高速鐵路的一個願景可是我們反對政治凌駕專業 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.410 --> 00:02.510\n主席\n\n00:16.016 --> 00:16.816\n交通建設基本上是沒有\n\n00:40.518 --> 00:54.971\n《環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案》案中第4條明定說本條例之主管機關為國發會,所以如果說這個草案通過了,那很明顯的就是破壞了這個體制,是不是?\n\n00:56.413 --> 01:12.963\n對,既有的啦,就是既有的機制就不是既有的機制不是既有的機制,那我們知道說其實重大的交通建設都有一定的一個流程就是由這個主管的這個業務單位來提出可行性評估然後還要這個先期規劃這個環保的一個環境影響評估等等最後才會送到我們國發會來做審議\n\n01:22.068 --> 01:27.892\n所以如果由國發會來主導這個環島高速鐵路等於就是求員兼裁判嗎?\n\n01:27.892 --> 01:46.986\n是不是?是因為那個在部會分工裡面交通部的鐵路法是有明定的就是交通事業基本上是他們來做主政然後他們提出相關的這些可行跟綜合規劃送到行政院行政院會交給國發會來共同審議分工是這個樣子來做分工\n\n01:47.386 --> 02:16.689\n事實上我們也希望就是說整個政府的體制我們還是希望它能夠有依循一定的一個體制跟程序這樣子才不會讓整個優單位都混亂掉了是那再來就是說就這個環島高速鐵路這個議題來談我們回想一下記得在當年這個高鐵剛剛通車的時候我記得那時候很多難贏的政治人物都在批評說高鐵是廢鐵不安全\n\n02:17.629 --> 02:20.632\n高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具,所以今天國民黨提出《環島高速鐵路條例》,他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵,\n\n02:38.710 --> 02:38.870\n李慧琼議員\n\n02:59.777 --> 03:24.780\n這個第5條裡面他說整個全部計畫的建設完成以不遇時扭為限其實我覺得這樣子的一個內容我覺得也是有點在就是違反這樣子的建設的一個流程也有點強人所難因為以我們看到整個西部鐵路高鐵的一個建設的一個騎乘這個都是有經驗可循的\n\n03:25.660 --> 03:46.470\n過去從可行性研究評估到核定計畫到動工一直到開始營運有20年的一個時間將近20年的一個時間所以對整個重大建設的一個推動當然我們都是希望有一個願景可是我們也希望就是說能夠務實的來一個推動所以對整個環島高鐵的一個推動\n\n03:53.073 --> 04:10.305\n國發會的立場是不是可以再請主委再說一下?如果按照程序來的話,如果有需要的部分還是要請交通部啟動這個可行性的研究分析。這個研究分析當然他就會討論這個路廊到底要怎麼走。\n\n04:11.225 --> 04:38.764\n站要設在哪裡然後要經過哪些地方可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難技術上部分然後財務怎麼樣做一些規劃這個部分我們都需要去認真的看待那越認真去看待來講的話真正後面施工才會順利如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論的話那馬上就要決定跳過這個程序的話可能會遇到想不到的一些阻礙更多\n\n04:39.685 --> 05:02.411\n所以我們還是認為就是說過去的經驗已經在那邊而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他的重大建設按照這樣的程序也都所有挑戰也一一突破了雖然時間拉長但是我們還是把它完成現在營運也非常非常順利所以我們還是希望說這套機制已經存在而且是可以信任的機制我們希望循這個機制來辦理\n\n05:06.913 --> 05:31.174\n我剛有提到當年在高鐵剛剛通車的時候國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵那這樣回想起來我們也可以看得出來他們就是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評這個部分我們從最近這兩年我們還可以看到一個例子就是高鐵延伸到屏東的這樣子的一個可行性的計畫的一個合併\n\n05:32.975 --> 05:52.143\n國民黨也是跳出來批評說這個延伸到屏東是畫大餅那今天他們提出來更大的一個交通建設的一個餅當然這個都是我們共同要追求的一個願景我們也是支持啦可是我們是希望就是說國民黨不要就是說換了位子就換了腦袋\n\n05:53.263 --> 06:02.809\n如果對整個國家有利的交通建設,我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論。所以對於整個環島高速鐵路的草案,我們也是希望能夠回歸專業,由交通部來做可行性的啟動評估,然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。\n\n06:18.038 --> 06:29.174\n所以在這邊當然要再次的重申我們是支持環島高速鐵路的一個願景可是我們反對政治凌駕專業謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.41,"end":2.51,"text":"主席"},{"start":16.016,"end":16.816,"text":"交通建設基本上是沒有"},{"start":40.518,"end":54.971,"text":"《環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案》案中第4條明定說本條例之主管機關為國發會,所以如果說這個草案通過了,那很明顯的就是破壞了這個體制,是不是?"},{"start":56.413,"end":72.963,"text":"對,既有的啦,就是既有的機制就不是既有的機制不是既有的機制,那我們知道說其實重大的交通建設都有一定的一個流程就是由這個主管的這個業務單位來提出可行性評估然後還要這個先期規劃這個環保的一個環境影響評估等等最後才會送到我們國發會來做審議"},{"start":82.068,"end":87.892,"text":"所以如果由國發會來主導這個環島高速鐵路等於就是求員兼裁判嗎?"},{"start":87.892,"end":106.986,"text":"是不是?是 因為那個在部會分工裡面交通部的鐵路法是有明定的就是交通事業基本上是他們來做主政然後他們提出相關的這些可行跟綜合規劃送到行政院行政院會交給國發會來共同審議分工是這個樣子來做分工"},{"start":107.386,"end":136.689,"text":"事實上我們也希望就是說整個政府的體制我們還是希望它能夠有依循一定的一個體制跟程序這樣子才不會讓整個優單位都混亂掉了是那再來就是說就這個環島高速鐵路這個議題來談我們回想一下記得在當年這個高鐵剛剛通車的時候我記得那時候很多難贏的政治人物都在批評說高鐵是廢鐵不安全"},{"start":137.629,"end":140.632,"text":"高鐵是快速、便利又安全的交通工具,所以今天國民黨提出《環島高速鐵路條例》,他們也承認高鐵不僅不是廢鐵,"},{"start":158.71,"end":158.87,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":179.777,"end":204.78,"text":"這個第5條裡面他說整個全部計畫的建設完成以不遇時扭為限其實我覺得這樣子的一個內容我覺得也是有點在就是違反這樣子的建設的一個流程也有點強人所難因為以我們看到整個西部鐵路高鐵的一個建設的一個騎乘這個都是有經驗可循的"},{"start":205.66,"end":226.47,"text":"過去從可行性研究評估到核定計畫到動工一直到開始營運有20年的一個時間將近20年的一個時間所以對整個重大建設的一個推動當然我們都是希望有一個願景可是我們也希望就是說能夠務實的來一個推動所以對整個環島高鐵的一個推動"},{"start":233.073,"end":250.305,"text":"國發會的立場是不是可以再請主委再說一下?如果按照程序來的話,如果有需要的部分還是要請交通部啟動這個可行性的研究分析。這個研究分析當然他就會討論這個路廊到底要怎麼走。"},{"start":251.225,"end":278.764,"text":"站要設在哪裡然後要經過哪些地方可能會遭遇到什麼樣的困難技術上部分然後財務怎麼樣做一些規劃這個部分我們都需要去認真的看待那越認真去看待來講的話真正後面施工才會順利如果這些東西都沒有先去了解跟討論的話那馬上就要決定跳過這個程序的話可能會遇到想不到的一些阻礙更多"},{"start":279.685,"end":302.411,"text":"所以我們還是認為就是說過去的經驗已經在那邊而且即便是西部高鐵或是其他的重大建設按照這樣的程序也都所有挑戰也一一突破了雖然時間拉長但是我們還是把它完成現在營運也非常非常順利所以我們還是希望說這套機制已經存在而且是可以信任的機制我們希望循這個機制來辦理"},{"start":306.913,"end":331.174,"text":"我剛有提到當年在高鐵剛剛通車的時候國民黨批評說高鐵是廢鐵那這樣回想起來我們也可以看得出來他們就是基於一種意識形態的立場來批評這個部分我們從最近這兩年我們還可以看到一個例子就是高鐵延伸到屏東的這樣子的一個可行性的計畫的一個合併"},{"start":332.975,"end":352.143,"text":"國民黨也是跳出來批評說這個延伸到屏東是畫大餅那今天他們提出來更大的一個交通建設的一個餅當然這個都是我們共同要追求的一個願景我們也是支持啦可是我們是希望就是說國民黨不要就是說換了位子就換了腦袋"},{"start":353.263,"end":362.809,"text":"如果對整個國家有利的交通建設,我們希望還是能夠回歸到理性的討論。所以對於整個環島高速鐵路的草案,我們也是希望能夠回歸專業,由交通部來做可行性的啟動評估,然後再做接下來相關的建設跟規劃。"},{"start":378.038,"end":389.174,"text":"所以在這邊當然要再次的重申我們是支持環島高速鐵路的一個願景可是我們反對政治凌駕專業 謝謝"}]}}}}