{"id":150789,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150789","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0f3b14000c39ee83325a2f6254cf3c732f8ba9b0039caa7a6b00dc349e71b59095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:15:08 - 12:20:58","影片長度":"00:05:50","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":350,"end_time":"2024-04-01T12:20:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T12:15:08+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1157,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時15分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。寶林的食安事件，目前其實民眾還是非常恐慌，然後很多事情我覺得好像也是疑雲重重，大家很多資訊都有點搞不太清楚，我現在整理一些資訊，想就教部長。第一個，有人對「米酵菌酸」這個名稱有意見，現在好像引起很多對米製品業者的影響，也造成很多喜愛米製品的民眾的恐慌，那到底它該不該叫米酵菌酸呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個可以討論，因為事實上，這個大概是直接從一些華文文獻上面已有的範例採過來的，但是不是最好的一個翻譯，我是覺得有討論的空間。"],["羅委員智強：好。從這邊再衍生下一個問題，你看我們這個翻譯，可能是因為大陸有案例，就從這些案例引用過來，下一個問題就是，現在有很多討論說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外，因為目前看到的案例就是包括印尼、大陸跟莫三比克，都曾經有類似的案例，那臺灣目前是首例，那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢？有沒有證據顯示？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是沒有證據顯示它的來源就是來自境外，第一個，唐菖蒲伯克氏菌在國內本來就有，但是國內有的亞型又不會自己跑出來分泌米酵菌酸，所以到底它的來源是哪裡，這個其實也還是一個問號。這個菌是否是從國外進來？從哪一個地方進來？有可能是從國外進來，但是從哪個地方進來，事實上現在是不知道。"],["羅委員智強：我覺得這個資訊也很重要，因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友，就是抗中保臺魂上身，連到底是從哪裡進來、是不是臺灣本身既有的菌種、產生什麼狀況，統統不知道，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在還沒有證實。"],["羅委員智強：他們馬上就抗中保臺魂上身，我看有的就直接講說是從中國大陸那邊過來的，我覺得大可不必啦。","再下一個問題，我想請教部長，上次那個西布特羅的風波到最後的結論是什麼？我看到最後停下來的結論就是說，不排除有實驗室污染，但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["薛部長瑞元：但是其實也沒有辦法排除。"],["羅委員智強：所以我直接講了，這個事情好像到現在為止變成懸案了，未解嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：可以，某一個程度是可以這樣講。"],["羅委員智強：對。","下一個問題，部長，不管是你們這邊還是各縣市政府，其實該檢驗的大概都檢驗完了吧，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：差不多。"],["羅委員智強：可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["羅委員智強：那請問，目前為止，我們政府能做的還剩下什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：還是必須要介入調查，因為目前可以確定的就是這是米酵菌酸引起來的。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["薛部長瑞元：第二個可以確定的是，這些病人共同食用的東西就是粿條，目前就是這樣，但是粿條的來源廠商都沒有驗出來，添加物也都沒有，所以現在調查的重點就是，究竟在發生事情的時候，當時被吃進去的這些粿條到底做了哪一些處理？還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子？也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的條件，這個部分的話還在調查當中。"],["羅委員智強：大概需要多少時間？"],["薛部長瑞元：這是檢察官手上調查的事項。"],["羅委員智強：我直接講結論，我看到部裡面很多的說法，那當然民眾會擔心，到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話，那不是又變成一樁懸案？"],["薛部長瑞元：有可能。"],["羅委員智強：其實真的民眾很無奈啊。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。但是不管怎麼樣，我們知道它是從粿條來的，那其他的製品風險大概就變少。粿條經過什麼樣的處理過程才會產生這個東西？不管怎麼樣，我們調查出來的結果，一定是說它曾經經過廚師怎麼樣去處理，所以才會有這樣的結果。"],["羅委員智強：我最後問你一個問題，目前大家說到下毒的可能性，我看部裡認為可能性不高嘛，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：不高。"],["羅委員智強：看起來應該就是米酵菌酸造成的。"],["薛部長瑞元：不知道什麼樣的處理過程產生出來的，那這個部分的話，如果最後沒有一個確切的答案的話，對整個處理過程我們就會加以檢視，說以後不能採用這樣子的方法處理，並指出應該用什麼樣的方式處理。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝部長。其實最後就是一個結論，不要讓它變懸案，懸案最可怕，好嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["羅委員智強：好。謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅智強委員。","接下來我們請洪孟楷委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","劉建國","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","盧縣一","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","楊曜","羅智強","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","李坤城","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳瑩","李彥秀","王鴻薇","徐富癸","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有\n限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150789","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150789","tool":"pyannote","id":"150789-pyannote"},"job_id":"453o2yiPsb8rSSGG","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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{\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"懸\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 186.069, \"end\": 186.109, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 186.109, \"end\": 186.129, \"score\": 0.969}]}, {\"start\": 193.343, \"end\": 211.94, \"text\": \"那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 193.343, \"end\": 193.483, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 193.483, \"end\": 193.823, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 193.823, \"end\": 194.024, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 194.024, \"end\": 194.244, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 194.244, \"end\": 194.444, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 194.444, \"end\": 195.525, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 195.525, \"end\": 195.805, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 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00:01:38,364\n那當然從這邊再衍生下一個問題你看我們那個翻譯就是從就是說從可能大陸有這個案例就從這個部分過來可是下一個問題就是現在很多討論就是說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外因為目前看到就是包括印尼大陸跟莫桑比克都曾經有類似的案例那臺灣目前是首例對不對那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢有沒有證據顯示\n\n5\n00:01:40,554 --> 00:02:03,209\n這應該是沒有證據顯示說它的來源就來自境外因為第一個當然這個所謂的唐昌普伯克氏菌的話在國內本來就有但是國內有的這個亞型的話又不會自己跑出來分泌這個米酵菌酸所以到底它的來源是從哪裡這其實也是還是一個問號\n\n6\n00:02:06,091 --> 00:02:30,410\n這個菌是否是從國外進來?從哪一個地方進來?有可能是從國外進來但是從哪個地方進來?事實上現在是不知道我覺得這個資訊也很重要因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友就是抗中保台魂上身你連是到底是從哪裡進來?是不是臺灣本身就是既有的菌種產生什麼狀況?通通不知道現在還沒有證實\n\n7\n00:02:31,671 --> 00:02:55,886\n馬上就抗中保台魂上升我看有的就直接講說是什麼從中國大陸那邊過來那我覺得大可不必啦那再下一個問題就想要說我想請教部長上次那個西部特羅的這個風波到最後的結論是什麼我看到最後停下來的結論就是說不排除有實驗室污染但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛\n\n8\n00:02:56,499 --> 00:03:06,129\n沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染但是其實也沒有辦法排除所以這個事情好像到現在為止我直接講好像變懸案了\n\n9\n00:03:13,343 --> 00:03:31,940\n那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的\n\n10\n00:03:33,424 --> 00:03:57,716\n那請問目前為止我們政府能做的還剩下什麼還是必須要進入調查因為目前可以確定的就它是米消菌酸引起來的第二個可以確定的是這些病人所共同的食用的東西的點就是果條目前就是這樣但是果條的來源的廠商都沒有驗得出來\n\n11\n00:03:59,391 --> 00:04:26,097\n它的添加物也都沒有所以現在調查的重點就是究竟說在發生事情的時候這些當時被吃進去的這些果條到底做了哪一些的處理還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的一個條件\n\n12\n00:04:27,057 --> 00:04:46,846\n那這個部分的話還在調查大概需要多少時間因為這個是在檢察官的手上在調查的事項大概是這個我直接講結論啦我看到部裡面很多的說法那當然民眾會擔心到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話那不是又變成一樁懸案\n\n13\n00:04:48,227 --> 00:05:10,446\n有可能那其實真的民眾很無奈啊但是不管怎麼樣我們知道說它是果條來的那其他的製品大概就可以那個風險就變少那果條會經過什麼樣處理的過程才會產生這個東西不管怎麼樣我們調查出來的結果一定是說它曾經經過\n\n14\n00:05:12,107 --> 00:05:26,912\n我最後問你一個問題目前大家說下毒的可能性我看布里說認為是不高嘛對不對不高所以看起來就是應該是米酵菌栓的狀況不知道什麼樣的一個處理的過程那產生出來的\n\n15\n00:05:27,512 --> 00:05:47,903\n那這個部分的話如果說最後沒有一個確確的答案的話那就是這整個處理過程我們就會加以警示說以後不能採用這樣子的方法應該用什麼樣的方法謝謝部長其實最後就一個結論啦不要讓它變懸案懸案最可怕好嗎對好謝謝好謝謝羅智強委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8739\t36231\t主席有請部長好請薛部長委員好部長好那個寶林的食安事件目前其實民眾還是非常恐慌然後也很多的事情我覺得好像也是疑雲重重那我覺得當然很多資訊都有點搞不太清楚那我現在目前整理一些資訊想就教部長\n37131\t52874\t第一個有人就對米酵菌酸這個名稱就有意見了像引起米製品業者的很多的一些影響也造成很多喜愛米製品的民眾的恐慌那到底它該不該叫米酵菌酸呢\n54499\t68626\t這可以討論因為事實上這是我們大概直接從一些華文的文獻上面他們已有的一個範例把它採過來的但是是不是一個最好的一個範例我是覺得這有討論的空間\n70667\t98364\t那當然從這邊再衍生下一個問題你看我們那個翻譯就是從就是說從可能大陸有這個案例就從這個部分過來可是下一個問題就是現在很多討論就是說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外因為目前看到就是包括印尼大陸跟莫桑比克都曾經有類似的案例那臺灣目前是首例對不對那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢有沒有證據顯示\n100554\t123209\t這應該是沒有證據顯示說它的來源就來自境外因為第一個當然這個所謂的唐昌普伯克氏菌的話在國內本來就有但是國內有的這個亞型的話又不會自己跑出來分泌這個米酵菌酸所以到底它的來源是從哪裡這其實也是還是一個問號\n126091\t150410\t這個菌是否是從國外進來?從哪一個地方進來?有可能是從國外進來但是從哪個地方進來?事實上現在是不知道我覺得這個資訊也很重要因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友就是抗中保台魂上身你連是到底是從哪裡進來?是不是臺灣本身就是既有的菌種產生什麼狀況?通通不知道現在還沒有證實\n151671\t175886\t馬上就抗中保台魂上升我看有的就直接講說是什麼從中國大陸那邊過來那我覺得大可不必啦那再下一個問題就想要說我想請教部長上次那個西部特羅的這個風波到最後的結論是什麼我看到最後停下來的結論就是說不排除有實驗室污染但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛\n176499\t186129\t沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染但是其實也沒有辦法排除所以這個事情好像到現在為止我直接講好像變懸案了\n193343\t211940\t那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的\n213424\t237716\t那請問目前為止我們政府能做的還剩下什麼還是必須要進入調查因為目前可以確定的就它是米消菌酸引起來的第二個可以確定的是這些病人所共同的食用的東西的點就是果條目前就是這樣但是果條的來源的廠商都沒有驗得出來\n239391\t266097\t它的添加物也都沒有所以現在調查的重點就是究竟說在發生事情的時候這些當時被吃進去的這些果條到底做了哪一些的處理還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的一個條件\n267057\t286846\t那這個部分的話還在調查大概需要多少時間因為這個是在檢察官的手上在調查的事項大概是這個我直接講結論啦我看到部裡面很多的說法那當然民眾會擔心到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話那不是又變成一樁懸案\n288227\t310446\t有可能那其實真的民眾很無奈啊但是不管怎麼樣我們知道說它是果條來的那其他的製品大概就可以那個風險就變少那果條會經過什麼樣處理的過程才會產生這個東西不管怎麼樣我們調查出來的結果一定是說它曾經經過\n312107\t326912\t我最後問你一個問題目前大家說下毒的可能性我看布里說認為是不高嘛對不對不高所以看起來就是應該是米酵菌栓的狀況不知道什麼樣的一個處理的過程那產生出來的\n327512\t347903\t那這個部分的話如果說最後沒有一個確確的答案的話那就是這整個處理過程我們就會加以警示說以後不能採用這樣子的方法應該用什麼樣的方法謝謝部長其實最後就一個結論啦不要讓它變懸案懸案最可怕好嗎對好謝謝好謝謝羅智強委員\n","txt":"主席有請部長好請薛部長委員好部長好那個寶林的食安事件目前其實民眾還是非常恐慌然後也很多的事情我覺得好像也是疑雲重重那我覺得當然很多資訊都有點搞不太清楚那我現在目前整理一些資訊想就教部長\n第一個有人就對米酵菌酸這個名稱就有意見了像引起米製品業者的很多的一些影響也造成很多喜愛米製品的民眾的恐慌那到底它該不該叫米酵菌酸呢\n這可以討論因為事實上這是我們大概直接從一些華文的文獻上面他們已有的一個範例把它採過來的但是是不是一個最好的一個範例我是覺得這有討論的空間\n那當然從這邊再衍生下一個問題你看我們那個翻譯就是從就是說從可能大陸有這個案例就從這個部分過來可是下一個問題就是現在很多討論就是說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外因為目前看到就是包括印尼大陸跟莫桑比克都曾經有類似的案例那臺灣目前是首例對不對那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢有沒有證據顯示\n這應該是沒有證據顯示說它的來源就來自境外因為第一個當然這個所謂的唐昌普伯克氏菌的話在國內本來就有但是國內有的這個亞型的話又不會自己跑出來分泌這個米酵菌酸所以到底它的來源是從哪裡這其實也是還是一個問號\n這個菌是否是從國外進來?從哪一個地方進來?有可能是從國外進來但是從哪個地方進來?事實上現在是不知道我覺得這個資訊也很重要因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友就是抗中保台魂上身你連是到底是從哪裡進來?是不是臺灣本身就是既有的菌種產生什麼狀況?通通不知道現在還沒有證實\n馬上就抗中保台魂上升我看有的就直接講說是什麼從中國大陸那邊過來那我覺得大可不必啦那再下一個問題就想要說我想請教部長上次那個西部特羅的這個風波到最後的結論是什麼我看到最後停下來的結論就是說不排除有實驗室污染但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛\n沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染但是其實也沒有辦法排除所以這個事情好像到現在為止我直接講好像變懸案了\n那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的\n那請問目前為止我們政府能做的還剩下什麼還是必須要進入調查因為目前可以確定的就它是米消菌酸引起來的第二個可以確定的是這些病人所共同的食用的東西的點就是果條目前就是這樣但是果條的來源的廠商都沒有驗得出來\n它的添加物也都沒有所以現在調查的重點就是究竟說在發生事情的時候這些當時被吃進去的這些果條到底做了哪一些的處理還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的一個條件\n那這個部分的話還在調查大概需要多少時間因為這個是在檢察官的手上在調查的事項大概是這個我直接講結論啦我看到部裡面很多的說法那當然民眾會擔心到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話那不是又變成一樁懸案\n有可能那其實真的民眾很無奈啊但是不管怎麼樣我們知道說它是果條來的那其他的製品大概就可以那個風險就變少那果條會經過什麼樣處理的過程才會產生這個東西不管怎麼樣我們調查出來的結果一定是說它曾經經過\n我最後問你一個問題目前大家說下毒的可能性我看布里說認為是不高嘛對不對不高所以看起來就是應該是米酵菌栓的狀況不知道什麼樣的一個處理的過程那產生出來的\n那這個部分的話如果說最後沒有一個確確的答案的話那就是這整個處理過程我們就會加以警示說以後不能採用這樣子的方法應該用什麼樣的方法謝謝部長其實最後就一個結論啦不要讓它變懸案懸案最可怕好嗎對好謝謝好謝謝羅智強委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.739 --> 00:36.231\n主席有請部長好請薛部長委員好部長好那個寶林的食安事件目前其實民眾還是非常恐慌然後也很多的事情我覺得好像也是疑雲重重那我覺得當然很多資訊都有點搞不太清楚那我現在目前整理一些資訊想就教部長\n\n00:37.131 --> 00:52.874\n第一個有人就對米酵菌酸這個名稱就有意見了像引起米製品業者的很多的一些影響也造成很多喜愛米製品的民眾的恐慌那到底它該不該叫米酵菌酸呢\n\n00:54.499 --> 01:08.626\n這可以討論因為事實上這是我們大概直接從一些華文的文獻上面他們已有的一個範例把它採過來的但是是不是一個最好的一個範例我是覺得這有討論的空間\n\n01:10.667 --> 01:38.364\n那當然從這邊再衍生下一個問題你看我們那個翻譯就是從就是說從可能大陸有這個案例就從這個部分過來可是下一個問題就是現在很多討論就是說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外因為目前看到就是包括印尼大陸跟莫桑比克都曾經有類似的案例那臺灣目前是首例對不對那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢有沒有證據顯示\n\n01:40.554 --> 02:03.209\n這應該是沒有證據顯示說它的來源就來自境外因為第一個當然這個所謂的唐昌普伯克氏菌的話在國內本來就有但是國內有的這個亞型的話又不會自己跑出來分泌這個米酵菌酸所以到底它的來源是從哪裡這其實也是還是一個問號\n\n02:06.091 --> 02:30.410\n這個菌是否是從國外進來?從哪一個地方進來?有可能是從國外進來但是從哪個地方進來?事實上現在是不知道我覺得這個資訊也很重要因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友就是抗中保台魂上身你連是到底是從哪裡進來?是不是臺灣本身就是既有的菌種產生什麼狀況?通通不知道現在還沒有證實\n\n02:31.671 --> 02:55.886\n馬上就抗中保台魂上升我看有的就直接講說是什麼從中國大陸那邊過來那我覺得大可不必啦那再下一個問題就想要說我想請教部長上次那個西部特羅的這個風波到最後的結論是什麼我看到最後停下來的結論就是說不排除有實驗室污染但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛\n\n02:56.499 --> 03:06.129\n沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染但是其實也沒有辦法排除所以這個事情好像到現在為止我直接講好像變懸案了\n\n03:13.343 --> 03:31.940\n那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的\n\n03:33.424 --> 03:57.716\n那請問目前為止我們政府能做的還剩下什麼還是必須要進入調查因為目前可以確定的就它是米消菌酸引起來的第二個可以確定的是這些病人所共同的食用的東西的點就是果條目前就是這樣但是果條的來源的廠商都沒有驗得出來\n\n03:59.391 --> 04:26.097\n它的添加物也都沒有所以現在調查的重點就是究竟說在發生事情的時候這些當時被吃進去的這些果條到底做了哪一些的處理還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的一個條件\n\n04:27.057 --> 04:46.846\n那這個部分的話還在調查大概需要多少時間因為這個是在檢察官的手上在調查的事項大概是這個我直接講結論啦我看到部裡面很多的說法那當然民眾會擔心到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話那不是又變成一樁懸案\n\n04:48.227 --> 05:10.446\n有可能那其實真的民眾很無奈啊但是不管怎麼樣我們知道說它是果條來的那其他的製品大概就可以那個風險就變少那果條會經過什麼樣處理的過程才會產生這個東西不管怎麼樣我們調查出來的結果一定是說它曾經經過\n\n05:12.107 --> 05:26.912\n我最後問你一個問題目前大家說下毒的可能性我看布里說認為是不高嘛對不對不高所以看起來就是應該是米酵菌栓的狀況不知道什麼樣的一個處理的過程那產生出來的\n\n05:27.512 --> 05:47.903\n那這個部分的話如果說最後沒有一個確確的答案的話那就是這整個處理過程我們就會加以警示說以後不能採用這樣子的方法應該用什麼樣的方法謝謝部長其實最後就一個結論啦不要讓它變懸案懸案最可怕好嗎對好謝謝好謝謝羅智強委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.739,"end":36.231,"text":"主席有請部長好請薛部長委員好部長好那個寶林的食安事件目前其實民眾還是非常恐慌然後也很多的事情我覺得好像也是疑雲重重那我覺得當然很多資訊都有點搞不太清楚那我現在目前整理一些資訊想就教部長"},{"start":37.131,"end":52.874,"text":"第一個有人就對米酵菌酸這個名稱就有意見了像引起米製品業者的很多的一些影響也造成很多喜愛米製品的民眾的恐慌那到底它該不該叫米酵菌酸呢"},{"start":54.499,"end":68.626,"text":"這可以討論因為事實上這是我們大概直接從一些華文的文獻上面他們已有的一個範例把它採過來的但是是不是一個最好的一個範例我是覺得這有討論的空間"},{"start":70.667,"end":98.364,"text":"那當然從這邊再衍生下一個問題你看我們那個翻譯就是從就是說從可能大陸有這個案例就從這個部分過來可是下一個問題就是現在很多討論就是說到底這個源頭是不是來自於境外因為目前看到就是包括印尼大陸跟莫桑比克都曾經有類似的案例那臺灣目前是首例對不對那這個源頭是不是來自於境外呢有沒有證據顯示"},{"start":100.554,"end":123.209,"text":"這應該是沒有證據顯示說它的來源就來自境外因為第一個當然這個所謂的唐昌普伯克氏菌的話在國內本來就有但是國內有的這個亞型的話又不會自己跑出來分泌這個米酵菌酸所以到底它的來源是從哪裡這其實也是還是一個問號"},{"start":126.091,"end":150.41,"text":"這個菌是否是從國外進來?從哪一個地方進來?有可能是從國外進來但是從哪個地方進來?事實上現在是不知道我覺得這個資訊也很重要因為我現在看到很多綠營的朋友就是抗中保台魂上身你連是到底是從哪裡進來?是不是臺灣本身就是既有的菌種產生什麼狀況?通通不知道現在還沒有證實"},{"start":151.671,"end":175.886,"text":"馬上就抗中保台魂上升我看有的就直接講說是什麼從中國大陸那邊過來那我覺得大可不必啦那再下一個問題就想要說我想請教部長上次那個西部特羅的這個風波到最後的結論是什麼我看到最後停下來的結論就是說不排除有實驗室污染但也不能證明有實驗室污染嘛"},{"start":176.499,"end":186.129,"text":"沒有辦法直接有證據證明說這是一個實驗室污染但是其實也沒有辦法排除所以這個事情好像到現在為止我直接講好像變懸案了"},{"start":193.343,"end":211.94,"text":"那我現在擔心下一個問題其實我看這個不管是我們這個部長你們這邊還有各縣市政府目前整理出來其實你該檢驗大家都檢驗完了吧對不對差不多可是就是沒有發現到底是哪個來源來的"},{"start":213.424,"end":237.716,"text":"那請問目前為止我們政府能做的還剩下什麼還是必須要進入調查因為目前可以確定的就它是米消菌酸引起來的第二個可以確定的是這些病人所共同的食用的東西的點就是果條目前就是這樣但是果條的來源的廠商都沒有驗得出來"},{"start":239.391,"end":266.097,"text":"它的添加物也都沒有所以現在調查的重點就是究竟說在發生事情的時候這些當時被吃進去的這些果條到底做了哪一些的處理還有它的保存到底是什麼樣子也許那些才是產生米酵菌酸的一個條件"},{"start":267.057,"end":286.846,"text":"那這個部分的話還在調查大概需要多少時間因為這個是在檢察官的手上在調查的事項大概是這個我直接講結論啦我看到部裡面很多的說法那當然民眾會擔心到最後如果你沒有辦法查到源頭的話那不是又變成一樁懸案"},{"start":288.227,"end":310.446,"text":"有可能那其實真的民眾很無奈啊但是不管怎麼樣我們知道說它是果條來的那其他的製品大概就可以那個風險就變少那果條會經過什麼樣處理的過程才會產生這個東西不管怎麼樣我們調查出來的結果一定是說它曾經經過"},{"start":312.107,"end":326.912,"text":"我最後問你一個問題目前大家說下毒的可能性我看布里說認為是不高嘛對不對不高所以看起來就是應該是米酵菌栓的狀況不知道什麼樣的一個處理的過程那產生出來的"},{"start":327.512,"end":347.903,"text":"那這個部分的話如果說最後沒有一個確確的答案的話那就是這整個處理過程我們就會加以警示說以後不能採用這樣子的方法應該用什麼樣的方法謝謝部長其實最後就一個結論啦不要讓它變懸案懸案最可怕好嗎對好謝謝好謝謝羅智強委員"}]}}}}