{"id":150796,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0dfd7ceb8e9f549d625a2f6254cf3c732f8ba9b0039caa7a62cb1202a763c6df65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:21:00 - 12:29:57","影片長度":"00:08:57","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":537,"end_time":"2024-04-01T12:29:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T12:21:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1198,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時21分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請薛部長。"],["主席：好，有請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長辛苦了。還是一樣針對這個部分，為什麼剛剛那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解？因為上一次本席在這邊質詢的時候說，如果這個業者已經超過時間沒有投保的話，最高可以罰3萬到300萬，那為什麼這一次寶林茶室業者從去年保險過期並且延續到今年都沒有繳費，等於是已經快要半年的時間，如果凡事都要依靠地方政府來去稽查、去瞭解，我們編再多的人力物力其實都沒有辦法，所以重點應該是我們在做相關管理的時候，對每一個業者的保險日期是否有效可以做系統性的追蹤，這一點你認同嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。目前應該要在非登系統裡面投保的這些廠商，應該要在非登系統把他們的保單效期登上去。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果能夠再多加一個欄位將有效期納入來做追蹤管理，相關警示會用系統的方式去跳出來，譬如說，這個月什麼時候或下個月有多少業者會到期，相關單位是不是可以去瞭解說他們有沒有續保？甚至我覺得如果有的話，也可以跟相關單位一起結合來去討論，你用系統直接去管理，重點在於現在法令已經規定業者都要強制投保。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們應該要用系統協助幫忙，業者既然開業，必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含投保，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。所以現在我們根據委員的提案，預計會在一個月之內把系統優化，也就是說，我們希望在保單到期之前一個月就自動跳出警示。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["薛部長瑞元：讓地方政府也能夠知道，也許地方政府就可以在最近一個月之內去做稽查。"],["洪委員孟楷：他們就可以去瞭解，甚至可以看到示警，然後去預防。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：早上臺北市政府有講到寶林有4家店可能都沒有投保，所以光是沒投保就可能開罰高達千萬元，那這一個負責人現在如果雙手一攤，說業績不好、去脫產，甚至我們剛剛看到王必勝次長還說，現在四例在住加護病房的受害者可能有兩例要換肝，如果要換肝的話，我們有辦法協助代位求償嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：代位求償如果是從健保那邊，是有可能的。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼意思叫做健保那邊有可能代位求償？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為這些醫療費用一定是從健保支出，如果有應該負責的人，健保署再代位去求償。"],["洪委員孟楷：代替這一些病患再去跟業者來求償？是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是如果現在業者沒有投保，雙手一攤？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，那這個求償就會有困難。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，對。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們再一次強調，過去的法令規定餐飲相關行業要投保，本來投保公共責任險就是必要、就是強制。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個是產品責任險。"],["洪委員孟楷：對不對？產品責任險，業者就已經有必要投保，這個是法令規定，那就不應該有空窗期，也不應該便宜行事、心存僥倖，業者半個月沒有投保，地方政府也沒有來稽查，過一個月也沒有來稽查，乾脆半年不投保試試看，能混就混，能過就過，這樣也不好吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。所以現在就要補這個漏洞。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，我再請教，這一次發生米酵菌酸中毒事件，大家也說這個東西在我們國內沒有樣品，可是鄰近的國家包括中國大陸、東南亞國家其實也都發生過中毒事件，根據實驗室裡面有的相關快篩試劑產品資訊，目前只有34件食品快篩試劑，是嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：什麼樣的食品快篩試劑？"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在看到媒體報導說，在我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁，總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊，並編列在本預算裡面。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個我們要瞭解一下，因為一般來講，所謂的食品快篩試劑能夠做的範圍是比較有限的，通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢，如果有問題仍然要進入我們的實驗室檢驗，所以快篩通常是用在別的地方，比如說我們去做稽查的時候、去市場，我們可以趕快來做，大概是那一類的。"],["洪委員孟楷：初步的篩檢？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，對，對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是實驗室裡面相關的樣品也不夠，大家也說，因為米酵菌酸中毒過去這一、兩年或兩、三年裡面，不管是中國大陸還是東南亞地區都有發生過，我們沒有準備。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，目前食藥署的實驗室準備的標準品大概有七千多項，但是如果依照國際食品檢驗可能需要、可以配置的標準品大概有兩萬多種，我們不太可能每一種都備在那裡。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你講到重點了，你說到國際的標準或者是相關規範，因為一定是有一個標準，如果說國際的標準有兩萬多種，我們到目前才七千多種，那中間的一萬三千多種是不是就是有差距？本席也沒有要求你馬上就要備齊這一萬三千多種，但至少鄰近國家已經有發生過中毒事件的、已經有案例的，或者是可能這幾年比較流行的，是不是應該超前部署，優先備妥？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個我們會來檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：怎麼檢討？來，部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：一定是要由專業來協助……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，因為本席有看到署長講說，當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候，看到時快哭了，媒體馬上講說，其實真正該落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧，這代表食藥署對這種國外早先發生多起的米酵菌酸中毒事件毫無警戒、毫無防備、毫無準備。"],["薛部長瑞元：那個也沒有多起啦，其實case都很少。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，那就對了嘛，你自己剛剛已經親口承認說，在國外如果以正常標準來講要兩萬件。"],["薛部長瑞元：不是正常標準，是說國際上面有提供的……"],["洪委員孟楷：國際上面有，那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，是說存在標準品的，但並不是說……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席今天提出來的重點在於是，我當然知道方方面面有那麼多，但是重點在於是，如果有國際上比較流行的，或者是像這個案例在鄰近國家也都有爆發過類似事件，我們沒有任何的警覺、沒有任何超前部署。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個我們當然可以進一步來檢討，就是我們所備置的標準品有哪些可能會需要的，再重新做一個檢討，這個可以啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會檢討出來？"],["薛部長瑞元：我想我們會開委員會來檢討，可能要找這些專家，可能要兩、三個月的時間才能夠把人湊齊，因為我們還需要survey鄰近的國家可能有哪一些疾病，哪一些我們可能會用到，然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席都同意讓專業來講話，不要真的讓大家看媒體報導時覺得，應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥署在每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應，或是讓大家覺得慢半拍。"],["薛部長瑞元：不能這樣說，因為這些新興的疾病、新興的物質的話……"],["洪委員孟楷：我同意，但是我還是強調，是鄰近國家已經有的，我們今天討論的不是歐洲，我們今天討論的不是比較遠的國家，就是在東南亞地區發生的狀況，以旅客往返、以我們食品安全習慣及飲食習慣來講，是不是東南亞地區相對來說……"],["薛部長瑞元：委員，給我們三個月好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你說的，麻煩你，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員。","因為等一下還有多位委員要質詢，所以黃珊珊委員發言結束後先休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","劉建國","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","盧縣一","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","楊曜","羅智強","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","李坤城","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳瑩","李彥秀","王鴻薇","徐富癸","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有\n限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150796","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150796","tool":"pyannote","id":"150796-pyannote"},"job_id":"Y198EzdozcrqzRHL","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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\"end\": 508.388, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 508.388, \"end\": 508.408, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 508.408, \"end\": 508.428, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:09,739\n好,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長好,有請薛部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,447 --> 00:00:34,773\n委員好部長辛苦齁還是一樣針對這部分為什麼剛剛的那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解因為上一次本席在這邊就是本席質詢的時候講說如果說這個業者他已經超過時間沒有投保的話\n\n3\n00:00:35,635 --> 00:00:35,655\n韓國瑜議員\n\n4\n00:00:55,098 --> 00:00:55,479\n這一點你認同嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:08,732 --> 00:01:14,435\n有效期如果說能夠再多加一個欄位來去做追蹤管理那你系統用系統的方式去跳出來譬如說這個月什麼時候下個月有多少業者會到期\n\n6\n00:01:33,126 --> 00:01:58,331\n那相關是不是去了解說他們有沒有續保甚至我覺得如果說有的話也可以跟相關的單位一起來做一個結合來去做討論你用系統直接去管理重點在於是因為我們現在法令已經規定是說業者都要強制投保那所以說我們應該用系統來去協助幫忙是說你既然今天開業你的必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含這個投保\n\n7\n00:01:59,431 --> 00:02:27,310\n所以現在我們根據委員的提案我們會預計會在一個月之內把系統優化那也就是說我們希望說你的保單到期之前一個月就自動會跳出來檢視讓這個地方政府能夠知道那也許地方政府就可以在最近的一個月之內就去做稽查他們就可以去了解甚至說就可以示警然後來去做預防因為現在光\n\n8\n00:02:28,311 --> 00:02:52,363\n早上臺北市政府這邊有講到說寶林他們有四家店有可能都沒有投保所以說光沒投保的金額可能就會開罰高達千萬那這個負責人現在他如果說雙手一攤業績不好脫產那甚至我們剛剛有看到早上王必勝次長還講是說現在可能有四例現在在住加護病房的有兩例要換肝\n\n9\n00:02:54,465 --> 00:03:03,026\n那如果說要換肝的話,我們有辦法協助代位球場嗎?代位球場如果是從健保那邊是有可能的\n\n10\n00:03:04,542 --> 00:03:31,292\n什麼意思叫健保那邊有可能因為是這些醫療的費用是一定是從健保那邊先出來然後健保如果說有應該負責的人那健保署再代位去做這個球場再代位去代替這些病患然後再去跟這個業者來做球場是不是但如果說現在業者他沒有投保雙手一攤對那這個球場就會有困難\n\n11\n00:03:32,506 --> 00:03:55,669\n但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞其實我們再一次強調如果說過去的法令規定是說你開餐飲相關的行業本來投保公共責任險就是必要就是強制這是產品責任險對產品責任險你就已經有必要這是法令規定那你就不應該有空窗期也不應該是說我\n\n12\n00:03:56,906 --> 00:04:05,673\n平行事、僥倖心理我半個月沒有投保地方政府也沒有來稽查那一個月沒有來稽查乾脆我半年試試看\n\n13\n00:04:07,455 --> 00:04:32,452\n能混就混、能過就過,這樣也不好吧?對,所以現在就要補這個漏洞起來好,那部長我再請教我們現在這一次因為米酵菌栓啊大家也講是說這個我們國內是沒有樣品可是臨近的臨近包括中國大陸當然東南亞國家其實也都發生過那我們針對是說實驗室裡面有這些相關的快篩試鏡產品資訊目前說只有34件食品快篩試鏡啊\n\n14\n00:04:37,635 --> 00:04:42,339\n現在看到媒體這邊有報導是說我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊編列在我們的本預算裡面\n\n15\n00:04:58,566 --> 00:05:14,462\n這個我們要了解一下因為一般來講所謂的快篩食品的快篩它能夠做的範圍是比較有限的那通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢如果有問題仍然要進入我們的一個實驗室檢驗\n\n16\n00:05:17,165 --> 00:05:39,504\n所以快篩通常是用在比如說我們去做稽查的時候去視察我們可以趕快來做大概是那一類的初步的篩檢那但是實驗室裡面我們的這個相關的樣品大家也講是說因為米酵菌酸其實過去這一兩年兩三年裡面不管中國大陸不管東南亞地區都有發生過那我們沒有準備\n\n17\n00:05:40,946 --> 00:06:09,481\n跟委員報告目前食藥署的這個實驗室裡面準備的標準品大概有7000多箱但是如果依照國際的它的這個所謂的食品的可能需要的有可以來備制的標準品大概2萬多種我們不太可能說每一種都去備著在那裡部長你想到重點了你說國際的標準或者是相關一個規範因為一定是有一個標準嘛\n\n18\n00:06:10,041 --> 00:06:10,402\n這個我們會來做檢討怎麼檢討來部長\n\n19\n00:06:33,784 --> 00:06:59,146\n這一定是要有專業來協助部長因為本席有看到我們的署長講說當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候看到快哭了媒體盲講說其實真正落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧代表說食藥署對這種國外早生發生多起的米酵遜磚中毒事件毫無警戒毫無防備毫無準備那個也沒有多起啦其實case都很少部長\n\n20\n00:06:59,907 --> 00:07:23,675\n那就對了嘛你自己剛剛已經親口承認講說國外如果說以正常標準來講要兩萬件不是正常標準是說國際上面那國際上面那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌不是就是說這一個是本席今天提出來的重點在於是本席今天提出來的重點在於是我當然知道方方面面有那麼多\n\n21\n00:07:24,375 --> 00:07:24,535\n什麼時候會檢討出來?\n\n22\n00:07:48,810 --> 00:08:08,251\n我想我們會開這個委員會來做檢討可能要找這些專家可能要兩三個月的時間才能夠把它湊齊因為我們還需要調查說那鄰近的國家可能有哪一些的疾病可能會用到的然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做\n\n23\n00:08:09,873 --> 00:08:27,928\n部長本時都同意專業講話而不是說我們不要真的讓大家覺得是說媒體報導是好像讓覺得每一次應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥所的時候每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應或說讓大家覺得滿滿拍的\n\n24\n00:08:28,208 --> 00:08:28,428\n部長你說的,麻煩你,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t9739\t好,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長好,有請薛部長\n18447\t34773\t委員好部長辛苦齁還是一樣針對這部分為什麼剛剛的那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解因為上一次本席在這邊就是本席質詢的時候講說如果說這個業者他已經超過時間沒有投保的話\n35635\t35655\t韓國瑜議員\n55098\t55479\t這一點你認同嗎?\n68732\t74435\t有效期如果說能夠再多加一個欄位來去做追蹤管理那你系統用系統的方式去跳出來譬如說這個月什麼時候下個月有多少業者會到期\n93126\t118331\t那相關是不是去了解說他們有沒有續保甚至我覺得如果說有的話也可以跟相關的單位一起來做一個結合來去做討論你用系統直接去管理重點在於是因為我們現在法令已經規定是說業者都要強制投保那所以說我們應該用系統來去協助幫忙是說你既然今天開業你的必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含這個投保\n119431\t147310\t所以現在我們根據委員的提案我們會預計會在一個月之內把系統優化那也就是說我們希望說你的保單到期之前一個月就自動會跳出來檢視讓這個地方政府能夠知道那也許地方政府就可以在最近的一個月之內就去做稽查他們就可以去了解甚至說就可以示警然後來去做預防因為現在光\n148311\t172363\t早上臺北市政府這邊有講到說寶林他們有四家店有可能都沒有投保所以說光沒投保的金額可能就會開罰高達千萬那這個負責人現在他如果說雙手一攤業績不好脫產那甚至我們剛剛有看到早上王必勝次長還講是說現在可能有四例現在在住加護病房的有兩例要換肝\n174465\t183026\t那如果說要換肝的話,我們有辦法協助代位球場嗎?代位球場如果是從健保那邊是有可能的\n184542\t211292\t什麼意思叫健保那邊有可能因為是這些醫療的費用是一定是從健保那邊先出來然後健保如果說有應該負責的人那健保署再代位去做這個球場再代位去代替這些病患然後再去跟這個業者來做球場是不是但如果說現在業者他沒有投保雙手一攤對那這個球場就會有困難\n212506\t235669\t但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞其實我們再一次強調如果說過去的法令規定是說你開餐飲相關的行業本來投保公共責任險就是必要就是強制這是產品責任險對產品責任險你就已經有必要這是法令規定那你就不應該有空窗期也不應該是說我\n236906\t245673\t平行事、僥倖心理我半個月沒有投保地方政府也沒有來稽查那一個月沒有來稽查乾脆我半年試試看\n247455\t272452\t能混就混、能過就過,這樣也不好吧?對,所以現在就要補這個漏洞起來好,那部長我再請教我們現在這一次因為米酵菌栓啊大家也講是說這個我們國內是沒有樣品可是臨近的臨近包括中國大陸當然東南亞國家其實也都發生過那我們針對是說實驗室裡面有這些相關的快篩試鏡產品資訊目前說只有34件食品快篩試鏡啊\n277635\t282339\t現在看到媒體這邊有報導是說我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊編列在我們的本預算裡面\n298566\t314462\t這個我們要了解一下因為一般來講所謂的快篩食品的快篩它能夠做的範圍是比較有限的那通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢如果有問題仍然要進入我們的一個實驗室檢驗\n317165\t339504\t所以快篩通常是用在比如說我們去做稽查的時候去視察我們可以趕快來做大概是那一類的初步的篩檢那但是實驗室裡面我們的這個相關的樣品大家也講是說因為米酵菌酸其實過去這一兩年兩三年裡面不管中國大陸不管東南亞地區都有發生過那我們沒有準備\n340946\t369481\t跟委員報告目前食藥署的這個實驗室裡面準備的標準品大概有7000多箱但是如果依照國際的它的這個所謂的食品的可能需要的有可以來備制的標準品大概2萬多種我們不太可能說每一種都去備著在那裡部長你想到重點了你說國際的標準或者是相關一個規範因為一定是有一個標準嘛\n370041\t370402\t這個我們會來做檢討怎麼檢討 來部長\n393784\t419146\t這一定是要有專業來協助部長因為本席有看到我們的署長講說當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候看到快哭了媒體盲講說其實真正落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧代表說食藥署對這種國外早生發生多起的米酵遜磚中毒事件毫無警戒毫無防備毫無準備那個也沒有多起啦其實case都很少部長\n419907\t443675\t那就對了嘛你自己剛剛已經親口承認講說國外如果說以正常標準來講要兩萬件不是正常標準是說國際上面那國際上面那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌不是就是說這一個是本席今天提出來的重點在於是本席今天提出來的重點在於是我當然知道方方面面有那麼多\n444375\t444535\t什麼時候會檢討出來?\n468810\t488251\t我想我們會開這個委員會來做檢討可能要找這些專家可能要兩三個月的時間才能夠把它湊齊因為我們還需要調查說那鄰近的國家可能有哪一些的疾病可能會用到的然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做\n489873\t507928\t部長本時都同意專業講話而不是說我們不要真的讓大家覺得是說媒體報導是好像讓覺得每一次應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥所的時候每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應或說讓大家覺得滿滿拍的\n508208\t508428\t部長你說的,麻煩你,謝謝\n","txt":"好,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長好,有請薛部長\n委員好部長辛苦齁還是一樣針對這部分為什麼剛剛的那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解因為上一次本席在這邊就是本席質詢的時候講說如果說這個業者他已經超過時間沒有投保的話\n韓國瑜議員\n這一點你認同嗎?\n有效期如果說能夠再多加一個欄位來去做追蹤管理那你系統用系統的方式去跳出來譬如說這個月什麼時候下個月有多少業者會到期\n那相關是不是去了解說他們有沒有續保甚至我覺得如果說有的話也可以跟相關的單位一起來做一個結合來去做討論你用系統直接去管理重點在於是因為我們現在法令已經規定是說業者都要強制投保那所以說我們應該用系統來去協助幫忙是說你既然今天開業你的必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含這個投保\n所以現在我們根據委員的提案我們會預計會在一個月之內把系統優化那也就是說我們希望說你的保單到期之前一個月就自動會跳出來檢視讓這個地方政府能夠知道那也許地方政府就可以在最近的一個月之內就去做稽查他們就可以去了解甚至說就可以示警然後來去做預防因為現在光\n早上臺北市政府這邊有講到說寶林他們有四家店有可能都沒有投保所以說光沒投保的金額可能就會開罰高達千萬那這個負責人現在他如果說雙手一攤業績不好脫產那甚至我們剛剛有看到早上王必勝次長還講是說現在可能有四例現在在住加護病房的有兩例要換肝\n那如果說要換肝的話,我們有辦法協助代位球場嗎?代位球場如果是從健保那邊是有可能的\n什麼意思叫健保那邊有可能因為是這些醫療的費用是一定是從健保那邊先出來然後健保如果說有應該負責的人那健保署再代位去做這個球場再代位去代替這些病患然後再去跟這個業者來做球場是不是但如果說現在業者他沒有投保雙手一攤對那這個球場就會有困難\n但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞其實我們再一次強調如果說過去的法令規定是說你開餐飲相關的行業本來投保公共責任險就是必要就是強制這是產品責任險對產品責任險你就已經有必要這是法令規定那你就不應該有空窗期也不應該是說我\n平行事、僥倖心理我半個月沒有投保地方政府也沒有來稽查那一個月沒有來稽查乾脆我半年試試看\n能混就混、能過就過,這樣也不好吧?對,所以現在就要補這個漏洞起來好,那部長我再請教我們現在這一次因為米酵菌栓啊大家也講是說這個我們國內是沒有樣品可是臨近的臨近包括中國大陸當然東南亞國家其實也都發生過那我們針對是說實驗室裡面有這些相關的快篩試鏡產品資訊目前說只有34件食品快篩試鏡啊\n現在看到媒體這邊有報導是說我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊編列在我們的本預算裡面\n這個我們要了解一下因為一般來講所謂的快篩食品的快篩它能夠做的範圍是比較有限的那通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢如果有問題仍然要進入我們的一個實驗室檢驗\n所以快篩通常是用在比如說我們去做稽查的時候去視察我們可以趕快來做大概是那一類的初步的篩檢那但是實驗室裡面我們的這個相關的樣品大家也講是說因為米酵菌酸其實過去這一兩年兩三年裡面不管中國大陸不管東南亞地區都有發生過那我們沒有準備\n跟委員報告目前食藥署的這個實驗室裡面準備的標準品大概有7000多箱但是如果依照國際的它的這個所謂的食品的可能需要的有可以來備制的標準品大概2萬多種我們不太可能說每一種都去備著在那裡部長你想到重點了你說國際的標準或者是相關一個規範因為一定是有一個標準嘛\n這個我們會來做檢討怎麼檢討 來部長\n這一定是要有專業來協助部長因為本席有看到我們的署長講說當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候看到快哭了媒體盲講說其實真正落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧代表說食藥署對這種國外早生發生多起的米酵遜磚中毒事件毫無警戒毫無防備毫無準備那個也沒有多起啦其實case都很少部長\n那就對了嘛你自己剛剛已經親口承認講說國外如果說以正常標準來講要兩萬件不是正常標準是說國際上面那國際上面那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌不是就是說這一個是本席今天提出來的重點在於是本席今天提出來的重點在於是我當然知道方方面面有那麼多\n什麼時候會檢討出來?\n我想我們會開這個委員會來做檢討可能要找這些專家可能要兩三個月的時間才能夠把它湊齊因為我們還需要調查說那鄰近的國家可能有哪一些的疾病可能會用到的然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做\n部長本時都同意專業講話而不是說我們不要真的讓大家覺得是說媒體報導是好像讓覺得每一次應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥所的時候每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應或說讓大家覺得滿滿拍的\n部長你說的,麻煩你,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:09.739\n好,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長好,有請薛部長\n\n00:18.447 --> 00:34.773\n委員好部長辛苦齁還是一樣針對這部分為什麼剛剛的那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解因為上一次本席在這邊就是本席質詢的時候講說如果說這個業者他已經超過時間沒有投保的話\n\n00:35.635 --> 00:35.655\n韓國瑜議員\n\n00:55.098 --> 00:55.479\n這一點你認同嗎?\n\n01:08.732 --> 01:14.435\n有效期如果說能夠再多加一個欄位來去做追蹤管理那你系統用系統的方式去跳出來譬如說這個月什麼時候下個月有多少業者會到期\n\n01:33.126 --> 01:58.331\n那相關是不是去了解說他們有沒有續保甚至我覺得如果說有的話也可以跟相關的單位一起來做一個結合來去做討論你用系統直接去管理重點在於是因為我們現在法令已經規定是說業者都要強制投保那所以說我們應該用系統來去協助幫忙是說你既然今天開業你的必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含這個投保\n\n01:59.431 --> 02:27.310\n所以現在我們根據委員的提案我們會預計會在一個月之內把系統優化那也就是說我們希望說你的保單到期之前一個月就自動會跳出來檢視讓這個地方政府能夠知道那也許地方政府就可以在最近的一個月之內就去做稽查他們就可以去了解甚至說就可以示警然後來去做預防因為現在光\n\n02:28.311 --> 02:52.363\n早上臺北市政府這邊有講到說寶林他們有四家店有可能都沒有投保所以說光沒投保的金額可能就會開罰高達千萬那這個負責人現在他如果說雙手一攤業績不好脫產那甚至我們剛剛有看到早上王必勝次長還講是說現在可能有四例現在在住加護病房的有兩例要換肝\n\n02:54.465 --> 03:03.026\n那如果說要換肝的話,我們有辦法協助代位球場嗎?代位球場如果是從健保那邊是有可能的\n\n03:04.542 --> 03:31.292\n什麼意思叫健保那邊有可能因為是這些醫療的費用是一定是從健保那邊先出來然後健保如果說有應該負責的人那健保署再代位去做這個球場再代位去代替這些病患然後再去跟這個業者來做球場是不是但如果說現在業者他沒有投保雙手一攤對那這個球場就會有困難\n\n03:32.506 --> 03:55.669\n但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞其實我們再一次強調如果說過去的法令規定是說你開餐飲相關的行業本來投保公共責任險就是必要就是強制這是產品責任險對產品責任險你就已經有必要這是法令規定那你就不應該有空窗期也不應該是說我\n\n03:56.906 --> 04:05.673\n平行事、僥倖心理我半個月沒有投保地方政府也沒有來稽查那一個月沒有來稽查乾脆我半年試試看\n\n04:07.455 --> 04:32.452\n能混就混、能過就過,這樣也不好吧?對,所以現在就要補這個漏洞起來好,那部長我再請教我們現在這一次因為米酵菌栓啊大家也講是說這個我們國內是沒有樣品可是臨近的臨近包括中國大陸當然東南亞國家其實也都發生過那我們針對是說實驗室裡面有這些相關的快篩試鏡產品資訊目前說只有34件食品快篩試鏡啊\n\n04:37.635 --> 04:42.339\n現在看到媒體這邊有報導是說我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊編列在我們的本預算裡面\n\n04:58.566 --> 05:14.462\n這個我們要了解一下因為一般來講所謂的快篩食品的快篩它能夠做的範圍是比較有限的那通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢如果有問題仍然要進入我們的一個實驗室檢驗\n\n05:17.165 --> 05:39.504\n所以快篩通常是用在比如說我們去做稽查的時候去視察我們可以趕快來做大概是那一類的初步的篩檢那但是實驗室裡面我們的這個相關的樣品大家也講是說因為米酵菌酸其實過去這一兩年兩三年裡面不管中國大陸不管東南亞地區都有發生過那我們沒有準備\n\n05:40.946 --> 06:09.481\n跟委員報告目前食藥署的這個實驗室裡面準備的標準品大概有7000多箱但是如果依照國際的它的這個所謂的食品的可能需要的有可以來備制的標準品大概2萬多種我們不太可能說每一種都去備著在那裡部長你想到重點了你說國際的標準或者是相關一個規範因為一定是有一個標準嘛\n\n06:10.041 --> 06:10.402\n這個我們會來做檢討怎麼檢討來部長\n\n06:33.784 --> 06:59.146\n這一定是要有專業來協助部長因為本席有看到我們的署長講說當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候看到快哭了媒體盲講說其實真正落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧代表說食藥署對這種國外早生發生多起的米酵遜磚中毒事件毫無警戒毫無防備毫無準備那個也沒有多起啦其實case都很少部長\n\n06:59.907 --> 07:23.675\n那就對了嘛你自己剛剛已經親口承認講說國外如果說以正常標準來講要兩萬件不是正常標準是說國際上面那國際上面那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌不是就是說這一個是本席今天提出來的重點在於是本席今天提出來的重點在於是我當然知道方方面面有那麼多\n\n07:24.375 --> 07:24.535\n什麼時候會檢討出來?\n\n07:48.810 --> 08:08.251\n我想我們會開這個委員會來做檢討可能要找這些專家可能要兩三個月的時間才能夠把它湊齊因為我們還需要調查說那鄰近的國家可能有哪一些的疾病可能會用到的然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做\n\n08:09.873 --> 08:27.928\n部長本時都同意專業講話而不是說我們不要真的讓大家覺得是說媒體報導是好像讓覺得每一次應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥所的時候每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應或說讓大家覺得滿滿拍的\n\n08:28.208 --> 08:28.428\n部長你說的,麻煩你,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":9.739,"text":"好,主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長好,有請薛部長"},{"start":18.447,"end":34.773,"text":"委員好部長辛苦齁還是一樣針對這部分為什麼剛剛的那個臨時提案本席也特別在這邊來瞭解因為上一次本席在這邊就是本席質詢的時候講說如果說這個業者他已經超過時間沒有投保的話"},{"start":35.635,"end":35.655,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":55.098,"end":55.479,"text":"這一點你認同嗎?"},{"start":68.732,"end":74.435,"text":"有效期如果說能夠再多加一個欄位來去做追蹤管理那你系統用系統的方式去跳出來譬如說這個月什麼時候下個月有多少業者會到期"},{"start":93.126,"end":118.331,"text":"那相關是不是去了解說他們有沒有續保甚至我覺得如果說有的話也可以跟相關的單位一起來做一個結合來去做討論你用系統直接去管理重點在於是因為我們現在法令已經規定是說業者都要強制投保那所以說我們應該用系統來去協助幫忙是說你既然今天開業你的必須付出的成本其中一項就是包含這個投保"},{"start":119.431,"end":147.31,"text":"所以現在我們根據委員的提案我們會預計會在一個月之內把系統優化那也就是說我們希望說你的保單到期之前一個月就自動會跳出來檢視讓這個地方政府能夠知道那也許地方政府就可以在最近的一個月之內就去做稽查他們就可以去了解甚至說就可以示警然後來去做預防因為現在光"},{"start":148.311,"end":172.363,"text":"早上臺北市政府這邊有講到說寶林他們有四家店有可能都沒有投保所以說光沒投保的金額可能就會開罰高達千萬那這個負責人現在他如果說雙手一攤業績不好脫產那甚至我們剛剛有看到早上王必勝次長還講是說現在可能有四例現在在住加護病房的有兩例要換肝"},{"start":174.465,"end":183.026,"text":"那如果說要換肝的話,我們有辦法協助代位球場嗎?代位球場如果是從健保那邊是有可能的"},{"start":184.542,"end":211.292,"text":"什麼意思叫健保那邊有可能因為是這些醫療的費用是一定是從健保那邊先出來然後健保如果說有應該負責的人那健保署再代位去做這個球場再代位去代替這些病患然後再去跟這個業者來做球場是不是但如果說現在業者他沒有投保雙手一攤對那這個球場就會有困難"},{"start":212.506,"end":235.669,"text":"但是這樣就變成是一個問題跟漏洞其實我們再一次強調如果說過去的法令規定是說你開餐飲相關的行業本來投保公共責任險就是必要就是強制這是產品責任險對產品責任險你就已經有必要這是法令規定那你就不應該有空窗期也不應該是說我"},{"start":236.906,"end":245.673,"text":"平行事、僥倖心理我半個月沒有投保地方政府也沒有來稽查那一個月沒有來稽查乾脆我半年試試看"},{"start":247.455,"end":272.452,"text":"能混就混、能過就過,這樣也不好吧?對,所以現在就要補這個漏洞起來好,那部長我再請教我們現在這一次因為米酵菌栓啊大家也講是說這個我們國內是沒有樣品可是臨近的臨近包括中國大陸當然東南亞國家其實也都發生過那我們針對是說實驗室裡面有這些相關的快篩試鏡產品資訊目前說只有34件食品快篩試鏡啊"},{"start":277.635,"end":282.339,"text":"現在看到媒體這邊有報導是說我們的食品篩檢資訊專頁總共有34件食品快篩試劑的產品資訊編列在我們的本預算裡面"},{"start":298.566,"end":314.462,"text":"這個我們要了解一下因為一般來講所謂的快篩食品的快篩它能夠做的範圍是比較有限的那通常快篩只是在第一次的篩檢如果有問題仍然要進入我們的一個實驗室檢驗"},{"start":317.165,"end":339.504,"text":"所以快篩通常是用在比如說我們去做稽查的時候去視察我們可以趕快來做大概是那一類的初步的篩檢那但是實驗室裡面我們的這個相關的樣品大家也講是說因為米酵菌酸其實過去這一兩年兩三年裡面不管中國大陸不管東南亞地區都有發生過那我們沒有準備"},{"start":340.946,"end":369.481,"text":"跟委員報告目前食藥署的這個實驗室裡面準備的標準品大概有7000多箱但是如果依照國際的它的這個所謂的食品的可能需要的有可以來備制的標準品大概2萬多種我們不太可能說每一種都去備著在那裡部長你想到重點了你說國際的標準或者是相關一個規範因為一定是有一個標準嘛"},{"start":370.041,"end":370.402,"text":"這個我們會來做檢討怎麼檢討 來部長"},{"start":393.784,"end":419.146,"text":"這一定是要有專業來協助部長因為本席有看到我們的署長講說當食藥署同仁驅車去彰化帶回標準品的時候看到快哭了媒體盲講說其實真正落淚的應該是臺灣人民吧代表說食藥署對這種國外早生發生多起的米酵遜磚中毒事件毫無警戒毫無防備毫無準備那個也沒有多起啦其實case都很少部長"},{"start":419.907,"end":443.675,"text":"那就對了嘛你自己剛剛已經親口承認講說國外如果說以正常標準來講要兩萬件不是正常標準是說國際上面那國際上面那臺灣要不要跟國際接軌不是就是說這一個是本席今天提出來的重點在於是本席今天提出來的重點在於是我當然知道方方面面有那麼多"},{"start":444.375,"end":444.535,"text":"什麼時候會檢討出來?"},{"start":468.81,"end":488.251,"text":"我想我們會開這個委員會來做檢討可能要找這些專家可能要兩三個月的時間才能夠把它湊齊因為我們還需要調查說那鄰近的國家可能有哪一些的疾病可能會用到的然後這一個部分的話還是需要專業來做"},{"start":489.873,"end":507.928,"text":"部長本時都同意專業講話而不是說我們不要真的讓大家覺得是說媒體報導是好像讓覺得每一次應該要嚴格把關源頭管理的食藥所的時候每一次發生事件的時候都是最後一個反應或說讓大家覺得滿滿拍的"},{"start":508.208,"end":508.428,"text":"部長你說的,麻煩你,謝謝"}]}}}}