{"id":150799,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150799","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c067c17c94667982f3f7510a295be7434bf8ba9b0039caa7a687405cc7a6e4ec875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"11:43:42 - 11:53:32","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程。(二)如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策。(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形。(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展。(五)原住民族學校法立法推動情形。(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形。(七)如何改善原住民族語言推動組織之需求。(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討。(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」。(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃。(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形。(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之困境。(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形。(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並落實老幼共學政策。(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育規劃。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(僅詢答)【4月1日及3日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-9"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":590,"end_time":"2024-04-01T11:53:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T11:43:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":732,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（11時43分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：有請夷將主委。"],["黃委員捷：主委好。剛剛有一位委員提到你們辦這項專刊……原民會有這項專刊嘛！是不是例行公事？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們從原民會成立以來，都持續作這樣的事，重點是怎麼樣讓族人知道原民會推動的成果與進度。"],["黃委員捷：所以這項專刊不是為了你個人而辦嘛！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：當然不是。"],["黃委員捷：是嘛！剛才有委員其實提到什麼主委好大喜功、覺得你是為了個人而辦，但我必須講，這確實是例行公事。其實過去我也曾看到、而且我手上有這本喔！請問這是什麼時期的專刊？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這本是前主委林江義時代的專刊。"],["黃委員捷：是的，這是前主委時代的專刊。在這份專刊裡，我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面，如果真的要這樣講，是不是這樣才叫好大喜功？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：其實裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民公務員怎麼樣像他一樣、這樣努力，所以是有功能在其中啦！"],["黃委員捷：當然啦！我覺得這項專刊應該要辦，也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家了解更多原民事務。如果真的要說這項專刊就是好大喜功的話，我認為主委把自己的照片放上去，這樣才叫作好大喜功。","再來談今天的重點。第一，我想請教主委原民補辦增劃編的事。對於原民的土地正義，我相信是非常多人都非常關心的，其實這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久、很久了，也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果。可是原民增擴編現在還是有一些法令上的問題，例如在上一屆，政院其實有把原民的土地使用條例送進來，但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審。我希望藉著這個機會跟主委請教一下，我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這項條例通過呢？可不可以請主委講一下你們目前的進度以及預期這一屆有沒有機會再審查？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：關於委員的指教，原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年送大院，也已經送出委員會，很可惜政黨協商的時候沒有完成。我們是希望能夠最完備地處理原住民保留地的問題，比部分條文修正更能保障原住民的土地權利。"],["黃委員捷：好，對於原民保留地的管理利用條例，我當然也很希望這一屆可以繼續審查，為什麼呢？我舉一個例子就好了，我過去在臺大的時候修過一門課，叫作「森多概」，「森多概」就是森林多樣性的概論。都去哪裡考察呢？都是去臺大的山地實驗農林、農場，包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰這些農場，目前都還是由臺大管理的公有土地，對嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：對。"],["黃委員捷：其實這個案子過去發過一件事，主委知不知道過去有一些族人跟臺大之間有一些法律上的糾紛？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：知道。"],["黃委員捷：這個案子是這樣，2018年的時候，臺大組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組，當時因為這些由臺大管理的公有土地其實有很大一部分都還是原住民族的傳統領域，是有族人在當地居住與耕作的，這些都是事實，可是基於歷史的緣故，因為日本政府的掠奪、透過一些不正義的手段交給當時的臺北帝國大學使用，後來臺大輾轉承襲這些土地，族人的土地就被迫流失了。2014年梅峰農場有一個族人想透過補辦增劃編的方式把他的原住民保留地取回，希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這塊他使用的土地，結果臺大反對，然後還告他，要求他拆屋還地！有這樣的事情嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：的確有這樣的案例，但是我們這幾年把相關案例整體檢討以後，也把原住民的土地問題逐步作了解決。最具體的例子是花蓮萬隆林田山這個園區，當地原來是原住民的保留地，後來變成國有地，現在又變回保留地。未來針對林田山，我們會跟林務局、也跟當地原住民共管林田山這處園區。"],["黃委員捷：是，我就是要在這裡要求原民會堅守立場啦！針對原民的保留地，不管是增辦還是擴辦，對於這些土地，我都希望你們儘量協助族人，可以讓他們順利。像臺大這種公有土地的管理機關之所以會刁難，當然是因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校，很多山地目前都還在他們的管轄範圍裡面。他們基於機關本位立場，當然都希望可以繼續保有這些土地、不願意釋出，這時候你們的角色就非常、非常重要。因為他們如果不同意、也在複審時不斷刁難，會導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候，對你們來說也沒辦法順利讓他們把這些土地還給這些族人。","我比較想知道的是，現在這些公有地的管理機關都還有同意權，是這樣嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：對。"],["黃委員捷：所以他們都還是有一定的決定權？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：是。"],["黃委員捷：我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的，也就是他們的同意權到底是只可以提供意見，還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這部分遇到爭議的時候，我們都會用協調的方式解決，所以也不是完全沒有案例可以解決類似問題。所以針對剛剛委員提到臺大農場的部分，雖然身為臺大畢業的學生，但我也覺得對於整體土地轉型正義這部分，應該很誠懇地面對。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：包括剛才提到布農族返還遺骨的部分，也都是我們必須面對的轉型正義問題。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝主委。當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦！雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生，但我也不認為臺大應該這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下占有這些土地，而是應該透過協助族人、朝還給他們土地的方式進行。當然最後我也希望原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期順利審查。","還有一點時間，我請教一下原民會對於身分證單列族名的看法，其實在今年1月有7個成功案例，他們勝訴了。他們勝訴當然帶來很好的消息，就是讓大家知道單列族名是可以的，可惜現在內政部還不願意放行，不知道現在原民會的看法，以及接下來有無打算如何處理？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員，對於這個問題，剛好我們上禮拜在行政院與內政部已經達成一項協商，在姓名條例還沒有修法之前，我們現正研擬一項解釋函，意思就是既然法院已經作出這樣的判決，我們就應該開放，讓原住民可以單列族名，用他們自己的書寫系統恢復傳統名字，這部份我們會很快地與內政部協商函頒。"],["黃委員捷：所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們先用函頒的方式，是解釋令。"],["黃委員捷：喔！解釋令。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：先用解釋令，因為修法要花一段時間。"],["黃委員捷：是。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：等姓名條例修完，可能要好幾年後。"],["黃委員捷：所以你們會請內政部發出函釋，承認這件事情？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們已經獲得行政院的指示，希望我們與內政部一起、共同面對這個問題。"],["黃委員捷：好。有機會在今年把單列族名的函釋給發出來、讓這件事情被承認嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們在速度上會儘快把它完成。"],["黃委員捷：好，感謝主委的承諾。我也希望看看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成形，因為今年這7個勝訴的例子確實讓人滿鼓舞的。我也不希望行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴地等待，導致每個人都要透過行政訴訟方式爭取，而是可以統一作出解釋，好嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，我們就函釋令與內政部達成共識的時候，我也會很快地到戶政事務所單列我的名字。"],["黃委員捷：好，太棒了！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這樣我的名字就會比較短一點，原本要寫兩個姓名。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝主委，也期待函釋令下來，主委到時候也可以改名成功。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：會！我一定會改的。"],["黃委員捷：好。謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員質詢，也謝謝夷將主委。","現在處理臨時提案。總共有5案，請宣讀（參閱附錄）。","一、","有鑑全台各部落殯葬公墓用地需求，爰請原住民族委員會於本院第十一屆第二會期開議前，全面盤點、檢討全台各部落殯葬需求與公墓用地，協調政府相關單位爭取撥用公有地為公墓用地、修正目的事業主管機關相關法規，以應各部落殯葬之需，並於下會期開議前向內政委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　黃建賓　　張智倫　　高金素梅","二、","有鑑全台各部落用水需求，爰請原民會協調經濟部會同該會於本院第十一屆第二會期開議前，徹底盤點全台無法供應自來水的部落、用戶數及問題所在，提出限期解決方案，如：合議共同管理機制、修建簡易自來水設施及農業用水、申請登記水權用地、積極尋覓產學研合作尋求其他儲水設施的可能及循環型農園等，並於本院下會期開議前向內政委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　黃建賓　　高金素梅　張智倫"],["項目：三、","請原民會會同教育部落實食農教育與農事體驗結合，並融入鄉內國中小學校訂課程，增進部落孩子們跨領域能力，培養農事耕作及管理能力，並對偏鄉部落央廚衛生安全與品質，特予注意，於本院下會期開議前向內政委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：徐欣瑩  黃建賓  張智倫  高金素梅"],["項目：四、","為促進原住民部落農業改革，實踐「與山為伍，以山為師」敬山精神，緊扣「三生」資源永續平衡發展，以達人與自然環境和諧共存為目標。請原民會於下會期開議前完成下列具體落實方案並向內政委員會提出書面報告。","1.盤點各部落特色DNA，結合在地精神及青年文創，透過有效的部落營造彰顯其價值。同時，建構前後山產業心臟地帶，均衡發展以強化鄉內產業鏈結。","2.拓展友善耕作面積，積極爭取農業資材、各類機具等補助，分擔農業生產成本，並於各部落進行生態復育，致力於永續精品農業。","提案人：徐欣瑩  黃建賓  張智倫  高金素梅"],["項目：五、","為落實部落整體發展與基本生活權益，請原民會會同目的事業主管機關於下會期開議前全面盤點各部落醫療資源、無障礙通行、治安等需求，於下會期開議前完成具體落實方案（如說明），並向內政委員會提出書面報告。","說明：","1.打造適合部落「有愛，無礙」友善環境，通盤檢視並完善全鄉公共區域無障礙設施，強化身障者家庭及社區生活支持。","2.依各部落需求成立部落巡守隊，定時巡視部落以加強部落治安。","3.積極爭取產官學研及民間跨域協力夥伴合作，應用科技補足原鄉醫療照護資源之窘境，發展符合在地文化之創新健康照護模式。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　黃建賓　　張智倫　　高金素梅"],["主席：因為部會已經同意修正一些文字，所以5案照案通過。"],["王委員美惠：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","繼續請陳瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-9","speakers":["高金素梅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","黃建賓","麥玉珍","王美惠","張智倫","黃仁","李柏毅","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","黃捷","陳瑩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林倩綺","黃國昌","盧縣一","蘇巧慧","丁學忠","陳培瑜"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民\n族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民\n族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程、 ( 二) 如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策、\n(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形、(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展、(五)\n原住民族學校法立法推動情形、(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形、(七)如何改善原住民族語言推\n動組織之需求、(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討、(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益\n之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」、(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃、\n(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形、(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之\n困境、(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形、(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並\n落實老幼共學政策、(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育\n規劃；二、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草\n案」案。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1132201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"150799","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150799","tool":"pyannote","id":"150799-pyannote"},"job_id":"IEpiMgkwgva46EI1","queued_at":"2024-06-01 14:54:56","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 14:56:58","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150799"},{"time":"2024-06-01 14:56:59","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c067c17c94667982f3f7510a295be7434b5930330a539e5324330ffbcd7353171c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 14:57:16","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 14:57:17","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-01 14:57:28","msg":"status: 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\"end\": 564.578, \"text\": \"感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 545.872, \"end\": 546.252, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 546.252, \"end\": 546.392, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 546.392, \"end\": 546.532, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 546.532, \"end\": 546.672, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 546.672, \"end\": 547.072, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"諾\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 547.072, \"end\": 547.233, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 547.233, \"end\": 547.333, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 547.333, \"end\": 547.433, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 547.433, \"end\": 547.553, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 547.553, \"end\": 547.733, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 547.733, \"end\": 547.873, 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{\"word\": \"姐\", \"start\": 587.769, \"end\": 587.849, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 587.849, \"end\": 587.869, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 587.869, \"end\": 587.889, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,537 --> 00:00:11,078\n好謝謝主席我們請主委有請一將主委好主委好剛剛有一位委員有提到說你們辦這個專刊你們原民會有這個專刊是不是例行的公式我們從原民會成立以來都持續做這樣的一個怎麼樣讓主任知道原民會推動的成果的進度\n\n2\n00:00:35,379 --> 00:00:50,844\n所以這個專刊不是為了你個人而辦嗎當然不是是嗎因為剛剛其實有提到說說什麼主委號大喜功覺得你是為了個人而辦我必須要講這個確實是例行的公事然後過去其實我有看到我是手上有這一本請問這個是什麼時期的專刊\n\n3\n00:00:53,782 --> 00:01:18,883\n這本就是前主委林江一時代的專刊是的這個是前主委的時候時代的專刊那這個專刊我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面那如果真的要這樣講是不是這個才叫做好大喜功他其實他裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民的公務員怎麼樣像他一樣這樣努力所以是有他的功能在裡面\n\n4\n00:01:19,700 --> 00:01:35,308\n當然啦我們覺得這個專刊應該要辦也想也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家來瞭解我們更多原民的事物但是如果真的要說這個專刊就是浩大喜功的話我認為把這個照片主委自己的照片放上去這個才叫做浩大喜功\n\n5\n00:01:35,908 --> 00:01:51,118\n好再來講一下今天的重點喔第一個我想要請教一下主委這個原民不辦真話編的事情因為原民的土地正義我相信是非常多人都非常關心的那其實啊這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久很久了\n\n6\n00:01:51,238 --> 00:02:10,239\n那也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果那可是因為現在這個原民的增擴邊現在還是有一些就是法令上的問題就例如說其實在上一屆我們鎮院其實有把這個原民的土地的使用條例送進來但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審\n\n7\n00:02:12,802 --> 00:02:25,407\n那我就希望藉這個機會來跟主委請教一下我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這個條例來通過呢可不可以請主委講一下你們現在目前的進度以及你們預期這一屆有沒有機會再來審查\n\n8\n00:02:27,659 --> 00:02:50,388\n對,那個委員的質詢是我們原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年也送大宴是那因為沒有,已經送出委員會﹐沒錯政黨協商來說沒有完成是我們希望這個部分是最完備來處理原住民保留地的問題是比那個部分條文修正更能夠保障原住民的這個土地潛力\n\n9\n00:02:51,001 --> 00:03:08,041\n好那我在這邊當然也是希望這個原民的保留地的管理利用條例我也是很希望這一屆可以繼續來審查是為什麼呢因為其實我舉一個例子就好了因為其實我過去在台大的時候其實都有收過一門課叫做森多蓋\n\n10\n00:03:09,342 --> 00:03:26,067\n這個森多概就是森林多樣性的概論他都去哪裡考察呢?都是去我們台大的山地的實驗農林農場那包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰農場這些現在是目前都還是由台大來管理的公有土地對嗎?對\n\n11\n00:03:28,203 --> 00:03:57,225\n那在這個其實這個案子裡面過去有發生過一件事情不知道族委知不知道有過去有一些族人也有跟台大之間有一些法律上的糾紛知道那這個案子當然是這樣因為其實2018年的時候台大有組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組那當時是因為呢就是我們還是希望說這些台大目前管的這些公有土地裡面其實有很大一部分\n\n12\n00:03:57,645 --> 00:04:20,511\n都還是原住民族的傳統領域然後是有族人在那邊居住跟耕作的這個都是事實那可是因為歷史的緣故當初因為日本政府的掠奪然後透過一些不正義的手段交給臺北帝國大學當時的臺北帝國大學使用那後來輾轉了臺大就把它承襲了這一些土地那族人的土地就被迫流失了\n\n13\n00:04:20,911 --> 00:04:40,129\n那在2014年的時候有一個在梅峰農場那時候有一個族人也想要透過這個補辦增化邊的方式來把他的原住民保留地來取回希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這個使用的土地結果臺大反對然後還告他要求他拆屋還地有這樣的事情嗎\n\n14\n00:04:41,997 --> 00:04:59,208\n的確有這樣的案例但是委員我們這幾年也有把相關的案例做一個整個檢討以後也把原住民的土地也逐步做一個解決最具體的例子是在花蓮萬隆有一個林田山的這個園區\n\n15\n00:05:04,263 --> 00:05:16,159\n原來是原住民的保留地後來變成國有地現在又變回為保留地未來林田山會跟林務局跟當地的族人一起來共管林田山的園區\n\n16\n00:05:18,441 --> 00:05:37,318\n這就是希望我在這裡要要求我們原民會要堅守立場啦盡量都把這個原民的保留地可以在他們在這些不管是增辦還是擴辦的這些的土地在你們協助這些族人的過程當中都可以讓他們順利因為像這種臺大的公有土地的管理機關他們之所以會刁難當然他們就覺得\n\n17\n00:05:40,220 --> 00:05:58,849\n其實因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校所以有很多的山地都目前都還是在他們的管轄範圍裡面那他們基於他們機關本位的立場都會希望說可以繼續保有這些土地然後不願意釋出所以這時候你們的角色就非常非常重要就是他們如果\n\n18\n00:05:59,449 --> 00:06:18,134\n不同意然後也在複審的時候不斷的刁難那導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候對你們來說也沒有辦法順利的去讓他們還給這些族人那我比較想要知道的是說現在因為其實這些公有的管理機關他們都還是有同意權是這樣子嗎對所以他們都還是有一定的決定權是\n\n19\n00:06:24,301 --> 00:06:51,502\n那我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的就是他們的這個同意權到底是只不是只有可以提供意見還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定這個部分遇到爭議的時候我們都會用協調的方式來做解決所以也不是完全沒有案例可以來去解決類似的問題所以剛剛委員提到那個臺大農場的部分我雖然是身為臺大\n\n20\n00:06:53,011 --> 00:07:07,072\n畢業的學生我覺得這個土地的整個轉型正義的部分我們應該要很誠懇去面對沒錯包括像剛剛那個布農族的返還遺骨的部分都是我們一起要面對的這個轉型正義的問題\n\n21\n00:07:09,295 --> 00:07:16,062\n好謝謝主委那當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生但我也不認為說臺大應該要這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下繼續的佔有這些土地而是應該要透過這個\n\n22\n00:07:24,711 --> 00:07:44,888\n協助族人還給他們土地的方式來進行那當然最後我也希望說這個原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期有順利的審查那還有一點時間我來請教一下我們原民會對於身份證單列族名的看法因為其實在今年1月的時候有7個成功的案例他們勝訴了\n\n23\n00:07:46,169 --> 00:08:12,703\n那他們迅速當然是帶來一個很好的消息就是讓大家知道說我們單列族民是可以的可惜現在內政部還不願意放行不知道說我們現在原民會的看法以及接下來有打算如何處理你這個問題剛好我們在上禮拜在行政院跟我們的內政部已經達成一個協商在姓名條例還沒有修法之前我們現在正在研擬一個解釋函\n\n24\n00:08:14,141 --> 00:08:21,071\n意思就是說既然法院已經做出這樣的判決我們應該開放讓原住民可以單列用\n\n25\n00:08:22,209 --> 00:08:44,348\n他們自己的書寫系統來恢復傳統名字這部分我們很快的跟內政部做一個協商就做一個函班所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例我們先用函班的方式解釋令因為修法要花一段時間等姓名條例修完可能\n\n26\n00:08:44,548 --> 00:09:04,976\n所以你們會請內政部發一個函式來承認這件事情我們已經獲得行政院的指示希望我們跟內政部一起來共同面對這個問題好那有機會就是在今年把這個單列族名的函式給發出來然後讓這件事情是被承認的嗎我們會用盡快的速度把它完成\n\n27\n00:09:05,872 --> 00:09:24,578\n感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎\n\n28\n00:09:25,478 --> 00:09:47,889\n跟委員報告如果韓市令我們跟內政部達成共識的時候呢我也會很快的到副政事務所用關列我的名字我的名字就會比較短一點了不用寫兩個姓名好謝謝主委也期待說這個韓市令下來然後主委到時候也可以改名成功會我一定會改的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝黃姐委員的質詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7537\t11078\t好謝謝主席我們請主委有請一將主委好主委好剛剛有一位委員有提到說你們辦這個專刊你們原民會有這個專刊是不是例行的公式我們從原民會成立以來都持續做這樣的一個怎麼樣讓主任知道原民會推動的成果的進度\n35379\t50844\t所以這個專刊不是為了你個人而辦嗎當然不是是嗎 因為剛剛其實有提到說說什麼主委號大喜功覺得你是為了個人而辦我必須要講這個確實是例行的公事然後過去其實我有看到我是手上有這一本請問這個是什麼時期的專刊\n53782\t78883\t這本就是前主委林江一時代的專刊是的這個是前主委的時候時代的專刊那這個專刊我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面那如果真的要這樣講是不是這個才叫做好大喜功他其實他裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民的公務員怎麼樣像他一樣這樣努力所以是有他的功能在裡面\n79700\t95308\t當然啦我們覺得這個專刊應該要辦也想也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家來瞭解我們更多原民的事物但是如果真的要說這個專刊就是浩大喜功的話我認為把這個照片主委自己的照片放上去這個才叫做浩大喜功\n95908\t111118\t好再來講一下今天的重點喔第一個我想要請教一下主委這個原民不辦真話編的事情因為原民的土地正義我相信是非常多人都非常關心的那其實啊這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久很久了\n111238\t130239\t那也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果那可是因為現在這個原民的增擴邊現在還是有一些就是法令上的問題就例如說其實在上一屆我們鎮院其實有把這個原民的土地的使用條例送進來但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審\n132802\t145407\t那我就希望藉這個機會來跟主委請教一下我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這個條例來通過呢可不可以請主委講一下你們現在目前的進度以及你們預期這一屆有沒有機會再來審查\n147659\t170388\t對,那個委員的質詢是我們原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年也送大宴是那因為沒有,已經送出委員會﹐沒錯政黨協商來說沒有完成是我們希望這個部分是最完備來處理原住民保留地的問題是比那個部分條文修正更能夠保障原住民的這個土地潛力\n171001\t188041\t好那我在這邊當然也是希望這個原民的保留地的管理利用條例我也是很希望這一屆可以繼續來審查是為什麼呢因為其實我舉一個例子就好了因為其實我過去在台大的時候其實都有收過一門課叫做森多蓋\n189342\t206067\t這個森多概就是森林多樣性的概論他都去哪裡考察呢?都是去我們台大的山地的實驗農林農場那包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰農場這些現在是目前都還是由台大來管理的公有土地對嗎?對\n208203\t237225\t那在這個其實這個案子裡面過去有發生過一件事情不知道族委知不知道有過去有一些族人也有跟台大之間有一些法律上的糾紛知道那這個案子當然是這樣因為其實2018年的時候台大有組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組那當時是因為呢就是我們還是希望說這些台大目前管的這些公有土地裡面其實有很大一部分\n237645\t260511\t都還是原住民族的傳統領域然後是有族人在那邊居住跟耕作的這個都是事實那可是因為歷史的緣故當初因為日本政府的掠奪然後透過一些不正義的手段交給臺北帝國大學當時的臺北帝國大學使用那後來輾轉了臺大就把它承襲了這一些土地那族人的土地就被迫流失了\n260911\t280129\t那在2014年的時候有一個在梅峰農場那時候有一個族人也想要透過這個補辦增化邊的方式來把他的原住民保留地來取回希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這個使用的土地結果臺大反對然後還告他要求他拆屋還地有這樣的事情嗎\n281997\t299208\t的確有這樣的案例但是委員我們這幾年也有把相關的案例做一個整個檢討以後也把原住民的土地也逐步做一個解決最具體的例子是在花蓮萬隆有一個林田山的這個園區\n304263\t316159\t原來是原住民的保留地後來變成國有地現在又變回為保留地未來林田山會跟林務局跟當地的族人一起來共管林田山的園區\n318441\t337318\t這就是希望我在這裡要要求我們原民會要堅守立場啦盡量都把這個原民的保留地可以在他們在這些不管是增辦還是擴辦的這些的土地在你們協助這些族人的過程當中都可以讓他們順利因為像這種臺大的公有土地的管理機關他們之所以會刁難當然他們就覺得\n340220\t358849\t其實因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校所以有很多的山地都目前都還是在他們的管轄範圍裡面那他們基於他們機關本位的立場都會希望說可以繼續保有這些土地然後不願意釋出所以這時候你們的角色就非常非常重要就是他們如果\n359449\t378134\t不同意然後也在複審的時候不斷的刁難那導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候對你們來說也沒有辦法順利的去讓他們還給這些族人那我比較想要知道的是說現在因為其實這些公有的管理機關他們都還是有同意權是這樣子嗎對所以他們都還是有一定的決定權是\n384301\t411502\t那我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的就是他們的這個同意權到底是只不是只有可以提供意見還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定這個部分遇到爭議的時候我們都會用協調的方式來做解決所以也不是完全沒有案例可以來去解決類似的問題所以剛剛委員提到那個臺大農場的部分我雖然是身為臺大\n413011\t427072\t畢業的學生我覺得這個土地的整個轉型正義的部分我們應該要很誠懇去面對沒錯包括像剛剛那個布農族的返還遺骨的部分都是我們一起要面對的這個轉型正義的問題\n429295\t436062\t好 謝謝主委那當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生但我也不認為說臺大應該要這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下繼續的佔有這些土地而是應該要透過這個\n444711\t464888\t協助族人還給他們土地的方式來進行那當然最後我也希望說這個原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期有順利的審查那還有一點時間我來請教一下我們原民會對於身份證單列族名的看法因為其實在今年1月的時候有7個成功的案例他們勝訴了\n466169\t492703\t那他們迅速當然是帶來一個很好的消息就是讓大家知道說我們單列族民是可以的可惜現在內政部還不願意放行不知道說我們現在原民會的看法以及接下來有打算如何處理你這個問題剛好我們在上禮拜在行政院跟我們的內政部已經達成一個協商在姓名條例還沒有修法之前我們現在正在研擬一個解釋函\n494141\t501071\t意思就是說既然法院已經做出這樣的判決我們應該開放讓原住民可以單列用\n502209\t524348\t他們自己的書寫系統來恢復傳統名字這部分我們很快的跟內政部做一個協商就做一個函班所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例我們先用函班的方式解釋令因為修法要花一段時間等姓名條例修完可能\n524548\t544976\t所以你們會請內政部發一個函式來承認這件事情我們已經獲得行政院的指示希望我們跟內政部一起來共同面對這個問題好那有機會就是在今年把這個單列族名的函式給發出來然後讓這件事情是被承認的嗎我們會用盡快的速度把它完成\n545872\t564578\t感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎\n565478\t587889\t跟委員報告如果韓市令我們跟內政部達成共識的時候呢我也會很快的到副政事務所用關列我的名字我的名字就會比較短一點了不用寫兩個姓名好謝謝主委也期待說這個韓市令下來然後主委到時候也可以改名成功會我一定會改的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝黃姐委員的質詢謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請主委有請一將主委好主委好剛剛有一位委員有提到說你們辦這個專刊你們原民會有這個專刊是不是例行的公式我們從原民會成立以來都持續做這樣的一個怎麼樣讓主任知道原民會推動的成果的進度\n所以這個專刊不是為了你個人而辦嗎當然不是是嗎 因為剛剛其實有提到說說什麼主委號大喜功覺得你是為了個人而辦我必須要講這個確實是例行的公事然後過去其實我有看到我是手上有這一本請問這個是什麼時期的專刊\n這本就是前主委林江一時代的專刊是的這個是前主委的時候時代的專刊那這個專刊我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面那如果真的要這樣講是不是這個才叫做好大喜功他其實他裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民的公務員怎麼樣像他一樣這樣努力所以是有他的功能在裡面\n當然啦我們覺得這個專刊應該要辦也想也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家來瞭解我們更多原民的事物但是如果真的要說這個專刊就是浩大喜功的話我認為把這個照片主委自己的照片放上去這個才叫做浩大喜功\n好再來講一下今天的重點喔第一個我想要請教一下主委這個原民不辦真話編的事情因為原民的土地正義我相信是非常多人都非常關心的那其實啊這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久很久了\n那也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果那可是因為現在這個原民的增擴邊現在還是有一些就是法令上的問題就例如說其實在上一屆我們鎮院其實有把這個原民的土地的使用條例送進來但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審\n那我就希望藉這個機會來跟主委請教一下我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這個條例來通過呢可不可以請主委講一下你們現在目前的進度以及你們預期這一屆有沒有機會再來審查\n對,那個委員的質詢是我們原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年也送大宴是那因為沒有,已經送出委員會﹐沒錯政黨協商來說沒有完成是我們希望這個部分是最完備來處理原住民保留地的問題是比那個部分條文修正更能夠保障原住民的這個土地潛力\n好那我在這邊當然也是希望這個原民的保留地的管理利用條例我也是很希望這一屆可以繼續來審查是為什麼呢因為其實我舉一個例子就好了因為其實我過去在台大的時候其實都有收過一門課叫做森多蓋\n這個森多概就是森林多樣性的概論他都去哪裡考察呢?都是去我們台大的山地的實驗農林農場那包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰農場這些現在是目前都還是由台大來管理的公有土地對嗎?對\n那在這個其實這個案子裡面過去有發生過一件事情不知道族委知不知道有過去有一些族人也有跟台大之間有一些法律上的糾紛知道那這個案子當然是這樣因為其實2018年的時候台大有組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組那當時是因為呢就是我們還是希望說這些台大目前管的這些公有土地裡面其實有很大一部分\n都還是原住民族的傳統領域然後是有族人在那邊居住跟耕作的這個都是事實那可是因為歷史的緣故當初因為日本政府的掠奪然後透過一些不正義的手段交給臺北帝國大學當時的臺北帝國大學使用那後來輾轉了臺大就把它承襲了這一些土地那族人的土地就被迫流失了\n那在2014年的時候有一個在梅峰農場那時候有一個族人也想要透過這個補辦增化邊的方式來把他的原住民保留地來取回希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這個使用的土地結果臺大反對然後還告他要求他拆屋還地有這樣的事情嗎\n的確有這樣的案例但是委員我們這幾年也有把相關的案例做一個整個檢討以後也把原住民的土地也逐步做一個解決最具體的例子是在花蓮萬隆有一個林田山的這個園區\n原來是原住民的保留地後來變成國有地現在又變回為保留地未來林田山會跟林務局跟當地的族人一起來共管林田山的園區\n這就是希望我在這裡要要求我們原民會要堅守立場啦盡量都把這個原民的保留地可以在他們在這些不管是增辦還是擴辦的這些的土地在你們協助這些族人的過程當中都可以讓他們順利因為像這種臺大的公有土地的管理機關他們之所以會刁難當然他們就覺得\n其實因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校所以有很多的山地都目前都還是在他們的管轄範圍裡面那他們基於他們機關本位的立場都會希望說可以繼續保有這些土地然後不願意釋出所以這時候你們的角色就非常非常重要就是他們如果\n不同意然後也在複審的時候不斷的刁難那導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候對你們來說也沒有辦法順利的去讓他們還給這些族人那我比較想要知道的是說現在因為其實這些公有的管理機關他們都還是有同意權是這樣子嗎對所以他們都還是有一定的決定權是\n那我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的就是他們的這個同意權到底是只不是只有可以提供意見還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定這個部分遇到爭議的時候我們都會用協調的方式來做解決所以也不是完全沒有案例可以來去解決類似的問題所以剛剛委員提到那個臺大農場的部分我雖然是身為臺大\n畢業的學生我覺得這個土地的整個轉型正義的部分我們應該要很誠懇去面對沒錯包括像剛剛那個布農族的返還遺骨的部分都是我們一起要面對的這個轉型正義的問題\n好 謝謝主委那當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生但我也不認為說臺大應該要這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下繼續的佔有這些土地而是應該要透過這個\n協助族人還給他們土地的方式來進行那當然最後我也希望說這個原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期有順利的審查那還有一點時間我來請教一下我們原民會對於身份證單列族名的看法因為其實在今年1月的時候有7個成功的案例他們勝訴了\n那他們迅速當然是帶來一個很好的消息就是讓大家知道說我們單列族民是可以的可惜現在內政部還不願意放行不知道說我們現在原民會的看法以及接下來有打算如何處理你這個問題剛好我們在上禮拜在行政院跟我們的內政部已經達成一個協商在姓名條例還沒有修法之前我們現在正在研擬一個解釋函\n意思就是說既然法院已經做出這樣的判決我們應該開放讓原住民可以單列用\n他們自己的書寫系統來恢復傳統名字這部分我們很快的跟內政部做一個協商就做一個函班所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例我們先用函班的方式解釋令因為修法要花一段時間等姓名條例修完可能\n所以你們會請內政部發一個函式來承認這件事情我們已經獲得行政院的指示希望我們跟內政部一起來共同面對這個問題好那有機會就是在今年把這個單列族名的函式給發出來然後讓這件事情是被承認的嗎我們會用盡快的速度把它完成\n感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎\n跟委員報告如果韓市令我們跟內政部達成共識的時候呢我也會很快的到副政事務所用關列我的名字我的名字就會比較短一點了不用寫兩個姓名好謝謝主委也期待說這個韓市令下來然後主委到時候也可以改名成功會我一定會改的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝黃姐委員的質詢謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.537 --> 00:11.078\n好謝謝主席我們請主委有請一將主委好主委好剛剛有一位委員有提到說你們辦這個專刊你們原民會有這個專刊是不是例行的公式我們從原民會成立以來都持續做這樣的一個怎麼樣讓主任知道原民會推動的成果的進度\n\n00:35.379 --> 00:50.844\n所以這個專刊不是為了你個人而辦嗎當然不是是嗎因為剛剛其實有提到說說什麼主委號大喜功覺得你是為了個人而辦我必須要講這個確實是例行的公事然後過去其實我有看到我是手上有這一本請問這個是什麼時期的專刊\n\n00:53.782 --> 01:18.883\n這本就是前主委林江一時代的專刊是的這個是前主委的時候時代的專刊那這個專刊我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面那如果真的要這樣講是不是這個才叫做好大喜功他其實他裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民的公務員怎麼樣像他一樣這樣努力所以是有他的功能在裡面\n\n01:19.700 --> 01:35.308\n當然啦我們覺得這個專刊應該要辦也想也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家來瞭解我們更多原民的事物但是如果真的要說這個專刊就是浩大喜功的話我認為把這個照片主委自己的照片放上去這個才叫做浩大喜功\n\n01:35.908 --> 01:51.118\n好再來講一下今天的重點喔第一個我想要請教一下主委這個原民不辦真話編的事情因為原民的土地正義我相信是非常多人都非常關心的那其實啊這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久很久了\n\n01:51.238 --> 02:10.239\n那也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果那可是因為現在這個原民的增擴邊現在還是有一些就是法令上的問題就例如說其實在上一屆我們鎮院其實有把這個原民的土地的使用條例送進來但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審\n\n02:12.802 --> 02:25.407\n那我就希望藉這個機會來跟主委請教一下我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這個條例來通過呢可不可以請主委講一下你們現在目前的進度以及你們預期這一屆有沒有機會再來審查\n\n02:27.659 --> 02:50.388\n對,那個委員的質詢是我們原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年也送大宴是那因為沒有,已經送出委員會﹐沒錯政黨協商來說沒有完成是我們希望這個部分是最完備來處理原住民保留地的問題是比那個部分條文修正更能夠保障原住民的這個土地潛力\n\n02:51.001 --> 03:08.041\n好那我在這邊當然也是希望這個原民的保留地的管理利用條例我也是很希望這一屆可以繼續來審查是為什麼呢因為其實我舉一個例子就好了因為其實我過去在台大的時候其實都有收過一門課叫做森多蓋\n\n03:09.342 --> 03:26.067\n這個森多概就是森林多樣性的概論他都去哪裡考察呢?都是去我們台大的山地的實驗農林農場那包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰農場這些現在是目前都還是由台大來管理的公有土地對嗎?對\n\n03:28.203 --> 03:57.225\n那在這個其實這個案子裡面過去有發生過一件事情不知道族委知不知道有過去有一些族人也有跟台大之間有一些法律上的糾紛知道那這個案子當然是這樣因為其實2018年的時候台大有組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組那當時是因為呢就是我們還是希望說這些台大目前管的這些公有土地裡面其實有很大一部分\n\n03:57.645 --> 04:20.511\n都還是原住民族的傳統領域然後是有族人在那邊居住跟耕作的這個都是事實那可是因為歷史的緣故當初因為日本政府的掠奪然後透過一些不正義的手段交給臺北帝國大學當時的臺北帝國大學使用那後來輾轉了臺大就把它承襲了這一些土地那族人的土地就被迫流失了\n\n04:20.911 --> 04:40.129\n那在2014年的時候有一個在梅峰農場那時候有一個族人也想要透過這個補辦增化邊的方式來把他的原住民保留地來取回希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這個使用的土地結果臺大反對然後還告他要求他拆屋還地有這樣的事情嗎\n\n04:41.997 --> 04:59.208\n的確有這樣的案例但是委員我們這幾年也有把相關的案例做一個整個檢討以後也把原住民的土地也逐步做一個解決最具體的例子是在花蓮萬隆有一個林田山的這個園區\n\n05:04.263 --> 05:16.159\n原來是原住民的保留地後來變成國有地現在又變回為保留地未來林田山會跟林務局跟當地的族人一起來共管林田山的園區\n\n05:18.441 --> 05:37.318\n這就是希望我在這裡要要求我們原民會要堅守立場啦盡量都把這個原民的保留地可以在他們在這些不管是增辦還是擴辦的這些的土地在你們協助這些族人的過程當中都可以讓他們順利因為像這種臺大的公有土地的管理機關他們之所以會刁難當然他們就覺得\n\n05:40.220 --> 05:58.849\n其實因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校所以有很多的山地都目前都還是在他們的管轄範圍裡面那他們基於他們機關本位的立場都會希望說可以繼續保有這些土地然後不願意釋出所以這時候你們的角色就非常非常重要就是他們如果\n\n05:59.449 --> 06:18.134\n不同意然後也在複審的時候不斷的刁難那導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候對你們來說也沒有辦法順利的去讓他們還給這些族人那我比較想要知道的是說現在因為其實這些公有的管理機關他們都還是有同意權是這樣子嗎對所以他們都還是有一定的決定權是\n\n06:24.301 --> 06:51.502\n那我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的就是他們的這個同意權到底是只不是只有可以提供意見還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定這個部分遇到爭議的時候我們都會用協調的方式來做解決所以也不是完全沒有案例可以來去解決類似的問題所以剛剛委員提到那個臺大農場的部分我雖然是身為臺大\n\n06:53.011 --> 07:07.072\n畢業的學生我覺得這個土地的整個轉型正義的部分我們應該要很誠懇去面對沒錯包括像剛剛那個布農族的返還遺骨的部分都是我們一起要面對的這個轉型正義的問題\n\n07:09.295 --> 07:16.062\n好謝謝主委那當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生但我也不認為說臺大應該要這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下繼續的佔有這些土地而是應該要透過這個\n\n07:24.711 --> 07:44.888\n協助族人還給他們土地的方式來進行那當然最後我也希望說這個原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期有順利的審查那還有一點時間我來請教一下我們原民會對於身份證單列族名的看法因為其實在今年1月的時候有7個成功的案例他們勝訴了\n\n07:46.169 --> 08:12.703\n那他們迅速當然是帶來一個很好的消息就是讓大家知道說我們單列族民是可以的可惜現在內政部還不願意放行不知道說我們現在原民會的看法以及接下來有打算如何處理你這個問題剛好我們在上禮拜在行政院跟我們的內政部已經達成一個協商在姓名條例還沒有修法之前我們現在正在研擬一個解釋函\n\n08:14.141 --> 08:21.071\n意思就是說既然法院已經做出這樣的判決我們應該開放讓原住民可以單列用\n\n08:22.209 --> 08:44.348\n他們自己的書寫系統來恢復傳統名字這部分我們很快的跟內政部做一個協商就做一個函班所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例我們先用函班的方式解釋令因為修法要花一段時間等姓名條例修完可能\n\n08:44.548 --> 09:04.976\n所以你們會請內政部發一個函式來承認這件事情我們已經獲得行政院的指示希望我們跟內政部一起來共同面對這個問題好那有機會就是在今年把這個單列族名的函式給發出來然後讓這件事情是被承認的嗎我們會用盡快的速度把它完成\n\n09:05.872 --> 09:24.578\n感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎\n\n09:25.478 --> 09:47.889\n跟委員報告如果韓市令我們跟內政部達成共識的時候呢我也會很快的到副政事務所用關列我的名字我的名字就會比較短一點了不用寫兩個姓名好謝謝主委也期待說這個韓市令下來然後主委到時候也可以改名成功會我一定會改的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝黃姐委員的質詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.537,"end":11.078,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請主委有請一將主委好主委好剛剛有一位委員有提到說你們辦這個專刊你們原民會有這個專刊是不是例行的公式我們從原民會成立以來都持續做這樣的一個怎麼樣讓主任知道原民會推動的成果的進度"},{"start":35.379,"end":50.844,"text":"所以這個專刊不是為了你個人而辦嗎當然不是是嗎 因為剛剛其實有提到說說什麼主委號大喜功覺得你是為了個人而辦我必須要講這個確實是例行的公事然後過去其實我有看到我是手上有這一本請問這個是什麼時期的專刊"},{"start":53.782,"end":78.883,"text":"這本就是前主委林江一時代的專刊是的這個是前主委的時候時代的專刊那這個專刊我甚至看到他把他個人的照片放在上面那如果真的要這樣講是不是這個才叫做好大喜功他其實他裡面的內容都是在鼓勵原住民的公務員怎麼樣像他一樣這樣努力所以是有他的功能在裡面"},{"start":79.7,"end":95.308,"text":"當然啦我們覺得這個專刊應該要辦也想也支持你們繼續用專刊讓大家來瞭解我們更多原民的事物但是如果真的要說這個專刊就是浩大喜功的話我認為把這個照片主委自己的照片放上去這個才叫做浩大喜功"},{"start":95.908,"end":111.118,"text":"好再來講一下今天的重點喔第一個我想要請教一下主委這個原民不辦真話編的事情因為原民的土地正義我相信是非常多人都非常關心的那其實啊這些歷史不正義的事情已經討論很久很久了"},{"start":111.238,"end":130.239,"text":"那也在非常多人的努力之下逐步有了一些成果那可是因為現在這個原民的增擴邊現在還是有一些就是法令上的問題就例如說其實在上一屆我們鎮院其實有把這個原民的土地的使用條例送進來但是因為屆期不連續的關係沒有辦法繼續審"},{"start":132.802,"end":145.407,"text":"那我就希望藉這個機會來跟主委請教一下我們這一屆有沒有機會繼續把這個條例來通過呢可不可以請主委講一下你們現在目前的進度以及你們預期這一屆有沒有機會再來審查"},{"start":147.659,"end":170.388,"text":"對,那個委員的質詢是我們原住民族保留地管理利用條例去年也送大宴是那因為沒有,已經送出委員會﹐沒錯政黨協商來說沒有完成是我們希望這個部分是最完備來處理原住民保留地的問題是比那個部分條文修正更能夠保障原住民的這個土地潛力"},{"start":171.001,"end":188.041,"text":"好那我在這邊當然也是希望這個原民的保留地的管理利用條例我也是很希望這一屆可以繼續來審查是為什麼呢因為其實我舉一個例子就好了因為其實我過去在台大的時候其實都有收過一門課叫做森多蓋"},{"start":189.342,"end":206.067,"text":"這個森多概就是森林多樣性的概論他都去哪裡考察呢?都是去我們台大的山地的實驗農林農場那包括梅峰、春陽、翠峰農場這些現在是目前都還是由台大來管理的公有土地對嗎?對"},{"start":208.203,"end":237.225,"text":"那在這個其實這個案子裡面過去有發生過一件事情不知道族委知不知道有過去有一些族人也有跟台大之間有一些法律上的糾紛知道那這個案子當然是這樣因為其實2018年的時候台大有組成一個原住民土地正義的倡議跟調查小組那當時是因為呢就是我們還是希望說這些台大目前管的這些公有土地裡面其實有很大一部分"},{"start":237.645,"end":260.511,"text":"都還是原住民族的傳統領域然後是有族人在那邊居住跟耕作的這個都是事實那可是因為歷史的緣故當初因為日本政府的掠奪然後透過一些不正義的手段交給臺北帝國大學當時的臺北帝國大學使用那後來輾轉了臺大就把它承襲了這一些土地那族人的土地就被迫流失了"},{"start":260.911,"end":280.129,"text":"那在2014年的時候有一個在梅峰農場那時候有一個族人也想要透過這個補辦增化邊的方式來把他的原住民保留地來取回希望自己可以在那邊長期居住這個使用的土地結果臺大反對然後還告他要求他拆屋還地有這樣的事情嗎"},{"start":281.997,"end":299.208,"text":"的確有這樣的案例但是委員我們這幾年也有把相關的案例做一個整個檢討以後也把原住民的土地也逐步做一個解決最具體的例子是在花蓮萬隆有一個林田山的這個園區"},{"start":304.263,"end":316.159,"text":"原來是原住民的保留地後來變成國有地現在又變回為保留地未來林田山會跟林務局跟當地的族人一起來共管林田山的園區"},{"start":318.441,"end":337.318,"text":"這就是希望我在這裡要要求我們原民會要堅守立場啦盡量都把這個原民的保留地可以在他們在這些不管是增辦還是擴辦的這些的土地在你們協助這些族人的過程當中都可以讓他們順利因為像這種臺大的公有土地的管理機關他們之所以會刁難當然他們就覺得"},{"start":340.22,"end":358.849,"text":"其實因為臺大是全臺灣最大的學校所以有很多的山地都目前都還是在他們的管轄範圍裡面那他們基於他們機關本位的立場都會希望說可以繼續保有這些土地然後不願意釋出所以這時候你們的角色就非常非常重要就是他們如果"},{"start":359.449,"end":378.134,"text":"不同意然後也在複審的時候不斷的刁難那導致這些案件在送原民會審查的時候對你們來說也沒有辦法順利的去讓他們還給這些族人那我比較想要知道的是說現在因為其實這些公有的管理機關他們都還是有同意權是這樣子嗎對所以他們都還是有一定的決定權是"},{"start":384.301,"end":411.502,"text":"那我覺得這就是接下來可以討論的就是他們的這個同意權到底是只不是只有可以提供意見還是他們的意見也代表某種程度的決定這個部分遇到爭議的時候我們都會用協調的方式來做解決所以也不是完全沒有案例可以來去解決類似的問題所以剛剛委員提到那個臺大農場的部分我雖然是身為臺大"},{"start":413.011,"end":427.072,"text":"畢業的學生我覺得這個土地的整個轉型正義的部分我們應該要很誠懇去面對沒錯包括像剛剛那個布農族的返還遺骨的部分都是我們一起要面對的這個轉型正義的問題"},{"start":429.295,"end":436.062,"text":"好 謝謝主委那當然我的立場也跟你一樣啦雖然我們都是臺大的畢業生但我也不認為說臺大應該要這樣繼續在土地不正義的情況下繼續的佔有這些土地而是應該要透過這個"},{"start":444.711,"end":464.888,"text":"協助族人還給他們土地的方式來進行那當然最後我也希望說這個原住民族的保留地管理利用條例可以在這個會期有順利的審查那還有一點時間我來請教一下我們原民會對於身份證單列族名的看法因為其實在今年1月的時候有7個成功的案例他們勝訴了"},{"start":466.169,"end":492.703,"text":"那他們迅速當然是帶來一個很好的消息就是讓大家知道說我們單列族民是可以的可惜現在內政部還不願意放行不知道說我們現在原民會的看法以及接下來有打算如何處理你這個問題剛好我們在上禮拜在行政院跟我們的內政部已經達成一個協商在姓名條例還沒有修法之前我們現在正在研擬一個解釋函"},{"start":494.141,"end":501.071,"text":"意思就是說既然法院已經做出這樣的判決我們應該開放讓原住民可以單列用"},{"start":502.209,"end":524.348,"text":"他們自己的書寫系統來恢復傳統名字這部分我們很快的跟內政部做一個協商就做一個函班所以會在最近就把你們修正過後的姓名條例我們先用函班的方式解釋令因為修法要花一段時間等姓名條例修完可能"},{"start":524.548,"end":544.976,"text":"所以你們會請內政部發一個函式來承認這件事情我們已經獲得行政院的指示希望我們跟內政部一起來共同面對這個問題好那有機會就是在今年把這個單列族名的函式給發出來然後讓這件事情是被承認的嗎我們會用盡快的速度把它完成"},{"start":545.872,"end":564.578,"text":"感謝主委的承諾那我也希望看可不可以今年就讓這件事情成行因為今年的這個七個勝訴的例子確實是讓人蠻鼓舞的那我也不希望說我們行政機關只能讓這些族人痴痴的等待說每個人都要去透過行政訴訟的方式而是我們可以統一的來做一個解釋好嗎"},{"start":565.478,"end":587.889,"text":"跟委員報告如果韓市令我們跟內政部達成共識的時候呢我也會很快的到副政事務所用關列我的名字我的名字就會比較短一點了不用寫兩個姓名好謝謝主委也期待說這個韓市令下來然後主委到時候也可以改名成功會我一定會改的好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝黃姐委員的質詢謝謝"}]}}}}