{"id":150813,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150813","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0d51877cc47d668fc9e1c65aef640d3e3f8ba9b0039caa7a610f22aa09be5a1b25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"12:45:06 - 12:51:53","影片長度":"00:06:47","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n（一）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條、第二十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（十四）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n（一）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第五章之一章名、第一百四十一條之一及第一百四十一條之二條文草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等19人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第一百四十條之一條文草案」案。\n三、審查\n（一）委員羅智強等20人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條及第一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員魯明哲等24人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第一案（四）、（五）、（七）、（十一）至（十五）及第二案（二）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-11"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":407,"end_time":"2024-04-01T12:51:53+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T12:45:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":808,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（12時45分）我們請周秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩秘書長，謝謝。"],["周秘書長萬來：黃委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：秘書長，我剛剛聽到立法委員職權行使法行政院大概也不會提版本嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：應該是不會。"],["黃委員珊珊：應該是以本院院會決議來做處理，所以民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本，當然國民黨有提出，好像民進黨也有提出，看起來朝野對於國會改革其實是有共識的；但是有共識的法案，之前卻一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政，毀憲亂政是任何人可以隨便亂喊的嗎？看起來只要跟他的意見不同，就變成毀憲亂政。請問秘書長，你看過民眾黨的版本嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：拜讀過。"],["黃委員珊珊：民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚。我要再強調一次，立法委員調查權的權限範圍，從今天的報告可以看出來，其實在民國82年的釋字第325號就已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權。釋字第325號解釋提到，立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權，必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本，而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權已經確立，目前為止也在執行中，對吧？"],["周秘書長萬來：當時負責處理這一個職權行使法，原來是要把它擴大，但我個人認為不宜，應該以第325號解釋作為基礎，所以目前的現行法是這樣。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以當時已經確立了這個部分。但是第325號解釋也說了，如果像監察院一樣，調閱文件有限制，立法院也受相同限制，所以只要在這個範圍之內，調查權也應該是被確立的，對吧！所以對於釋字第325號，民眾黨的修正版本第四十七條有規定，除非法律或其他正當理由得拒絕外，這完全是在釋字第325號的解釋範圍之內，也就是說，民眾黨的版本並沒有違反釋字第325號，這是第一點。","接下來在民國93年的釋字第585號範圍裡面，也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一點，必要的時候必須經過院會決議，要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見；第二點，得對違反協助調查義務的人課予罰鍰；第三點，程序上必須以法律為適當規範；第四點，如果委任非立法委員人士協助調查，必須要有特別法；第五點，個案調查事實的範圍，不能違反權力分立跟制衡原則，不能侵害其他機關的權力核心範圍，也不可以對其他機關的權力造成實質妨害，這五大原則是第585號的範圍。同樣的，台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚，所有的程序必要時都經過院會決議，同樣在民眾黨版的第四十五條規定，也都非常清楚地要求符合第585號的範圍，更沒有超過罰鍰以外的制裁。我想這個部分程序，秘書長也看過我們的版本，至目前為止，至少，民眾黨的版本是沒有超過第585號的範圍，你可以確定這件事嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：符合第585號的解釋。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，所以台灣民眾黨提出的版本範圍，其實都在第585號的程序範圍之內，所以就這個版本而言，沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題，不需要誤導視聽。大家的版本都不一樣，但是台灣民眾黨的版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內，提出相關條文的內容。","就這個部分，我要講得很明白的就是釋字第633號，有關真調會違憲的部分，因為它直接賦予真調會裁處的權力，它的違憲不是因為我們訂出了由立法院來裁以罰鍰的權力，所以真調會那個條款的違憲，跟我們現在的版本是完全不同的。秘書長，沒錯吧？"],["周秘書長萬來：無關。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以如果民眾黨版沒有違反中華民國憲法，也沒有違反中華民國憲法增修條文，更沒有違反剛剛提到的這幾份大法官會議解釋，請問這個版本何來違憲亂政之說？我們不是活在民國34年中華民國憲法剛剛通過的時候，也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候，民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作，而且是在大法官會議解釋授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本，「毀憲亂政」這樣的字眼，我希望民進黨團把它收回去。","秘書長，我們必須要捍衛立法院職權行使的權力，立法院不應該閹割自己的調查權，立法院更不應該是行政院的附庸單位！我們應該有獨立的調查職權，在憲法以及大法官會議解釋的範圍之內，充分執行自己的調查權力，而且也能夠協助行政機關改過，協助行政機關面對自己的問題，我想這才是我們立法院職權行使法最重要的目的。"],["周秘書長萬來：我給予肯定。"],["黃委員珊珊：請問秘書長對我們的版本有沒有什麼看法？"],["周秘書長萬來：在處理上，我不好表示哪一個版本好壞，但是在逐條審查過程當中，我們如果有意見，會提出我們的看法。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我的意思是，在相關大法官會議解釋及中華民國憲法以及增修條文之下，我們不應該隨便扣人家毀憲亂政的帽子。謝謝秘書長！"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員。","游顥委員、游顥委員、游顥委員。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員。","其他委員都沒有到。","剛剛比較不好意思，比較暴怒，就像剛剛黃珊珊委員說的動不動就說是毀憲亂政，或是扣你違憲；違不違憲是大法官的職權來認定，行政官員或立法委員都不能隨便說違憲，這是沒有道理，至少我唸法律的人，我沒有辦法接受這種說法。","所有委員都發言完畢，今天詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","委員楊瓊瓔所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","羅智強","林思銘","柯建銘","陳俊宇","傅崐萁","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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102.453, \"end\": 102.553, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 102.553, \"end\": 102.733, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 102.733, \"end\": 103.033, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 103.033, \"end\": 103.133, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 103.133, \"end\": 103.313, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 103.313, \"end\": 103.574, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 103.574, \"end\": 103.754, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 103.754, \"end\": 103.934, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"拒\", \"start\": 103.934, \"end\": 104.854, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 104.854, \"end\": 105.014, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 105.014, \"end\": 105.795, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"閱\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.795, \"end\": 105.915, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"已\", 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{\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 110.009, \"end\": 110.129, \"text\": \"三（五（\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 110.009, \"end\": 110.109, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"（\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 110.109, \"end\": 110.129, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"（\"}]}, {\"start\": 130.077, \"end\": 130.297, \"text\": \"二）委員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 130.077, \"end\": 130.277, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"）\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 130.277, \"end\": 130.297, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 143.447, \"end\": 160.901, \"text\": \"所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 143.447, \"end\": 143.687, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 143.687, \"end\": 143.827, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 143.827, \"end\": 144.908, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, 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341.477, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 341.477, \"end\": 341.497, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 380.602, \"end\": 380.743, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"）\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 380.743, \"end\": 380.763, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,984 --> 00:00:08,004\n麻煩祕書長\n\n2\n00:00:17,223 --> 00:00:42,381\n李總,剛剛聽到說應該是立法委員的職權行使法大概行政院也不會提版本嗎?應該是以本院的院會決議來做處理所以我們提出了民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本當然國民黨也有提出那好像民進黨也有提出那對於國會改革其實看起來是朝野有共識的法案\n\n3\n00:00:43,121 --> 00:01:00,931\n但是有共識的法案之前就已經發生一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政毀憲亂政是任何人都可以隨便亂喊的那看起來只要跟他的意見不同就變成毀憲亂政請問秘書長你看過民眾黨的版本嗎\n\n4\n00:01:06,314 --> 00:01:18,719\n民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚我要再強調一次立法委員的調查權的權限範圍從今天的報告可以看出來其實從民國82年就已經有釋字325號\n\n5\n00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:48,937\n三百二十五號已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權、調查權。那目前為止看起來甚至三二五號立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本。而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權是已經確立了。那目前為止也在執行中對吧?\n\n6\n00:01:50,009 --> 00:01:50,129\n三（五（\n\n7\n00:02:10,077 --> 00:02:10,297\n二）委員\n\n8\n00:02:23,447 --> 00:02:40,901\n所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點\n\n9\n00:02:43,834 --> 00:03:09,708\n第二點,接下來是民國93年的釋字585號。585號的範圍裡面也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一個,他有必要的時候必須經過院會決議,要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見。第二點,得對違反協助調查義務的人科與法環。第三點,程序上必須以法律為適當規範。\n\n10\n00:03:11,343 --> 00:03:24,454\n第四點,如果委任非立法院人事協助調查必須要有特別法。第五點,個案調查事實的範圍不能違反權利分立跟制衡原則,不能侵害其他機關的核心範圍,也不可以對其他機關權利行使造成實質妨害。\n\n11\n00:03:28,718 --> 00:03:51,746\n此五大原則是585號的範圍。同樣的,台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚,所有的程序都必要時經過院會決議。同樣在民眾黨版的45條規定,都非常清楚地要求符合585的範圍,更沒有超過罰還以外的制裁。\n\n12\n00:03:52,426 --> 00:03:52,526\n議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具\n\n13\n00:04:13,015 --> 00:04:30,311\n就這個版本沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題而不需要被誤導視聽大家的版本都不一樣但是台灣民眾黨版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內做出了我們的相關的條文的內容\n\n14\n00:04:31,621 --> 00:04:36,789\n所以就這個部分我要講得很清楚很明白的就是現在還有一個釋字的633號633號得徵調會違憲是因為他直接賦予徵調會採取的權利\n\n15\n00:05:15,335 --> 00:05:41,497\n民眾黨我們不是活在民國三十四年中華民國憲法剛通過的時候也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作而且也在大法官會議授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本毀憲亂政這樣的字眼我希望民進黨團把它收回去\n\n16\n00:06:20,602 --> 00:06:20,763\n二）委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7984\t8004\t麻煩祕書長\n17223\t42381\t李總,剛剛聽到說應該是立法委員的職權行使法大概行政院也不會提版本嗎?應該是以本院的院會決議來做處理所以我們提出了民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本當然國民黨也有提出那好像民進黨也有提出那對於國會改革其實看起來是朝野有共識的法案\n43121\t60931\t但是有共識的法案之前就已經發生一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政毀憲亂政是任何人都可以隨便亂喊的那看起來只要跟他的意見不同就變成毀憲亂政請問秘書長你看過民眾黨的版本嗎\n66314\t78719\t民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚我要再強調一次立法委員的調查權的權限範圍從今天的報告可以看出來其實從民國82年就已經有釋字325號\n80680\t108937\t三百二十五號已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權、調查權。那目前為止看起來甚至三二五號立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本。而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權是已經確立了。那目前為止也在執行中對吧?\n110009\t110129\t三（五（\n130077\t130297\t二）委員\n143447\t160901\t所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點\n163834\t189708\t第二點,接下來是民國93年的釋字585號。585號的範圍裡面也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一個,他有必要的時候必須經過院會決議,要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見。第二點,得對違反協助調查義務的人科與法環。第三點,程序上必須以法律為適當規範。\n191343\t204454\t第四點,如果委任非立法院人事協助調查必須要有特別法。第五點,個案調查事實的範圍不能違反權利分立跟制衡原則,不能侵害其他機關的核心範圍,也不可以對其他機關權利行使造成實質妨害。\n208718\t231746\t此五大原則是585號的範圍。同樣的,台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚,所有的程序都必要時經過院會決議。同樣在民眾黨版的45條規定,都非常清楚地要求符合585的範圍,更沒有超過罰還以外的制裁。\n232426\t232526\t議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具\n253015\t270311\t就這個版本沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題而不需要被誤導視聽大家的版本都不一樣但是台灣民眾黨版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內做出了我們的相關的條文的內容\n271621\t276789\t所以就這個部分我要講得很清楚很明白的就是現在還有一個釋字的633號633號得徵調會違憲是因為他直接賦予徵調會採取的權利\n284394\t314394\t議員楊瓊瓊\n315335\t341497\t民眾黨我們不是活在民國三十四年中華民國憲法剛通過的時候也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作而且也在大法官會議授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本毀憲亂政這樣的字眼我希望民進黨團把它收回去\n342585\t363609\t議員楊瓊瓊\n363609\t380026\t議員楊瓊瓊\n380602\t380763\t二）委員\n","txt":"麻煩祕書長\n李總,剛剛聽到說應該是立法委員的職權行使法大概行政院也不會提版本嗎?應該是以本院的院會決議來做處理所以我們提出了民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本當然國民黨也有提出那好像民進黨也有提出那對於國會改革其實看起來是朝野有共識的法案\n但是有共識的法案之前就已經發生一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政毀憲亂政是任何人都可以隨便亂喊的那看起來只要跟他的意見不同就變成毀憲亂政請問秘書長你看過民眾黨的版本嗎\n民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚我要再強調一次立法委員的調查權的權限範圍從今天的報告可以看出來其實從民國82年就已經有釋字325號\n三百二十五號已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權、調查權。那目前為止看起來甚至三二五號立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本。而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權是已經確立了。那目前為止也在執行中對吧?\n三（五（\n二）委員\n所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點\n第二點,接下來是民國93年的釋字585號。585號的範圍裡面也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一個,他有必要的時候必須經過院會決議,要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見。第二點,得對違反協助調查義務的人科與法環。第三點,程序上必須以法律為適當規範。\n第四點,如果委任非立法院人事協助調查必須要有特別法。第五點,個案調查事實的範圍不能違反權利分立跟制衡原則,不能侵害其他機關的核心範圍,也不可以對其他機關權利行使造成實質妨害。\n此五大原則是585號的範圍。同樣的,台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚,所有的程序都必要時經過院會決議。同樣在民眾黨版的45條規定,都非常清楚地要求符合585的範圍,更沒有超過罰還以外的制裁。\n議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具\n就這個版本沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題而不需要被誤導視聽大家的版本都不一樣但是台灣民眾黨版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內做出了我們的相關的條文的內容\n所以就這個部分我要講得很清楚很明白的就是現在還有一個釋字的633號633號得徵調會違憲是因為他直接賦予徵調會採取的權利\n議員楊瓊瓊\n民眾黨我們不是活在民國三十四年中華民國憲法剛通過的時候也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作而且也在大法官會議授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本毀憲亂政這樣的字眼我希望民進黨團把它收回去\n議員楊瓊瓊\n議員楊瓊瓊\n二）委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.984 --> 00:08.004\n麻煩祕書長\n\n00:17.223 --> 00:42.381\n李總,剛剛聽到說應該是立法委員的職權行使法大概行政院也不會提版本嗎?應該是以本院的院會決議來做處理所以我們提出了民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本當然國民黨也有提出那好像民進黨也有提出那對於國會改革其實看起來是朝野有共識的法案\n\n00:43.121 --> 01:00.931\n但是有共識的法案之前就已經發生一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政毀憲亂政是任何人都可以隨便亂喊的那看起來只要跟他的意見不同就變成毀憲亂政請問秘書長你看過民眾黨的版本嗎\n\n01:06.314 --> 01:18.719\n民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚我要再強調一次立法委員的調查權的權限範圍從今天的報告可以看出來其實從民國82年就已經有釋字325號\n\n01:20.680 --> 01:48.937\n三百二十五號已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權、調查權。那目前為止看起來甚至三二五號立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本。而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權是已經確立了。那目前為止也在執行中對吧?\n\n01:50.009 --> 01:50.129\n三（五（\n\n02:10.077 --> 02:10.297\n二）委員\n\n02:23.447 --> 02:40.901\n所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點\n\n02:43.834 --> 03:09.708\n第二點,接下來是民國93年的釋字585號。585號的範圍裡面也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一個,他有必要的時候必須經過院會決議,要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見。第二點,得對違反協助調查義務的人科與法環。第三點,程序上必須以法律為適當規範。\n\n03:11.343 --> 03:24.454\n第四點,如果委任非立法院人事協助調查必須要有特別法。第五點,個案調查事實的範圍不能違反權利分立跟制衡原則,不能侵害其他機關的核心範圍,也不可以對其他機關權利行使造成實質妨害。\n\n03:28.718 --> 03:51.746\n此五大原則是585號的範圍。同樣的,台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚,所有的程序都必要時經過院會決議。同樣在民眾黨版的45條規定,都非常清楚地要求符合585的範圍,更沒有超過罰還以外的制裁。\n\n03:52.426 --> 03:52.526\n議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具\n\n04:13.015 --> 04:30.311\n就這個版本沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題而不需要被誤導視聽大家的版本都不一樣但是台灣民眾黨版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內做出了我們的相關的條文的內容\n\n04:31.621 --> 04:36.789\n所以就這個部分我要講得很清楚很明白的就是現在還有一個釋字的633號633號得徵調會違憲是因為他直接賦予徵調會採取的權利\n\n05:15.335 --> 05:41.497\n民眾黨我們不是活在民國三十四年中華民國憲法剛通過的時候也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作而且也在大法官會議授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本毀憲亂政這樣的字眼我希望民進黨團把它收回去\n\n06:20.602 --> 06:20.763\n二）委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.984,"end":8.004,"text":"麻煩祕書長"},{"start":17.223,"end":42.381,"text":"李總,剛剛聽到說應該是立法委員的職權行使法大概行政院也不會提版本嗎?應該是以本院的院會決議來做處理所以我們提出了民眾黨提出了國會改革的版本當然國民黨也有提出那好像民進黨也有提出那對於國會改革其實看起來是朝野有共識的法案"},{"start":43.121,"end":60.931,"text":"但是有共識的法案之前就已經發生一直有一個聲音說我們的版本毀憲亂政毀憲亂政是任何人都可以隨便亂喊的那看起來只要跟他的意見不同就變成毀憲亂政請問秘書長你看過民眾黨的版本嗎"},{"start":66.314,"end":78.719,"text":"民眾黨的版本其實非常的清楚我要再強調一次立法委員的調查權的權限範圍從今天的報告可以看出來其實從民國82年就已經有釋字325號"},{"start":80.68,"end":108.937,"text":"三百二十五號已經確立了立法院有調查權、調閱權、調查權。那目前為止看起來甚至三二五號立法院為行使憲法所賦予的職權必要的時候可以調閱文件的原本。而且受要求機關除非法令或其他規定或其他正當理由是不得拒絕。所以調閱權是已經確立了。那目前為止也在執行中對吧?"},{"start":110.009,"end":110.129,"text":"三（五（"},{"start":130.077,"end":130.297,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":143.447,"end":160.901,"text":"所以4至325號民眾黨的修正版本我們內容的第47條有規定除非法律或其他政當理由得拒絕外這完全是在4至325號的解釋範圍之內也就是說民眾黨的版本並沒有違反4至325號這第一點"},{"start":163.834,"end":189.708,"text":"第二點,接下來是民國93年的釋字585號。585號的範圍裡面也確立了調查權的界限還有實質的內容。第一個,他有必要的時候必須經過院會決議,要求調查事項相關的人民或政府人員陳述意見。第二點,得對違反協助調查義務的人科與法環。第三點,程序上必須以法律為適當規範。"},{"start":191.343,"end":204.454,"text":"第四點,如果委任非立法院人事協助調查必須要有特別法。第五點,個案調查事實的範圍不能違反權利分立跟制衡原則,不能侵害其他機關的核心範圍,也不可以對其他機關權利行使造成實質妨害。"},{"start":208.718,"end":231.746,"text":"此五大原則是585號的範圍。同樣的,台灣民眾黨的版本也在這個範圍裡面講得非常的清楚,所有的程序都必要時經過院會決議。同樣在民眾黨版的45條規定,都非常清楚地要求符合585的範圍,更沒有超過罰還以外的制裁。"},{"start":232.426,"end":232.526,"text":"議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":253.015,"end":270.311,"text":"就這個版本沒有所謂毀憲亂政的問題而不需要被誤導視聽大家的版本都不一樣但是台灣民眾黨版本非常嚴謹的在兩個大法官會議解釋的範圍之內做出了我們的相關的條文的內容"},{"start":271.621,"end":276.789,"text":"所以就這個部分我要講得很清楚很明白的就是現在還有一個釋字的633號633號得徵調會違憲是因為他直接賦予徵調會採取的權利"},{"start":284.394,"end":314.394,"text":"議員楊瓊瓊"},{"start":315.335,"end":341.497,"text":"民眾黨我們不是活在民國三十四年中華民國憲法剛通過的時候也不是活在中華民國還有三個國會的時候民眾黨的版本是為了現在2024年國會要有更好的運作而且也在大法官會議授權的範圍之內提出改革的版本毀憲亂政這樣的字眼我希望民進黨團把它收回去"},{"start":342.585,"end":363.609,"text":"議員楊瓊瓊"},{"start":363.609,"end":380.026,"text":"議員楊瓊瓊"},{"start":380.602,"end":380.763,"text":"二）委員"}]}}}}