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13:52:37","影片長度":"00:04:40","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-10"},"date":"2024-04-01","duration":280,"end_time":"2024-04-01T13:52:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-01T13:47:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1671,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（13時48分）主席好，請部長。"],["主席：好，有請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。其實剛才幾位農業縣的委員都有特別談到對生產端的影響，我們當然知道最近寶林茶室的食安問題除了是消費端以外，對於生產端，我們中南部、南部的縣市影響非常大。王必勝次長已經表示23日進貨的35項食材都沒有驗出米酵菌酸，所以這個部分他們認為是前批的貨品有問題，我想不管目前的食品狀況如何，但因為大量的媒體報導，然後把農產品跟米酵菌酸做連結，這是現在我們遇到的危機溝通所需要面對的問題。農業部昨天晚上也有發新聞稿嚴正澄清，國產的杏鮑菇、木耳、鳳梨等等臺灣農產品都沒有檢測出來，部長可不可以在這邊跟全國民眾再次說明國產農產品的檢測狀況？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前衛福部並沒有對全國的農產品去做普遍的檢測，我們現在針對的對象是涉及到這個個案的食材去做檢測，到目前為止，這可以確定是米酵菌酸引起的中毒事件，而這個米酵菌酸只有在寶林茶室位於信義區A13的這一家有發現到，而且這一些病人的共通特色就是有食用粿條，所以其他部分的話大概都不相關了。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個粿條到底是怎麼樣產生米酵菌酸，現在還在查。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我認為危機溝通要有更加明確的指引，就是說哪些食品在怎麼樣的保存方式食用無虞，然後你要說明清楚，我們不希望讓這種「此產品若保存不當可能導致米酵菌酸」等等，或者說「此產品疑……」等等這樣的訊息充斥在整個媒體，變成主流的方式，所以這個時候政府要負起傳遞可信訊息的責任就非常重大，根據CDC的危機和緊急風險溝通，就是Crisis and Emergency Risk Communication這個模式，一般民眾能夠消化的訊息大概只有三條到四條，所以剛才部長談到的部分，原則上也是把人、事、時、地、物等這三、四件事情把它清楚的跟民眾溝通就很重要。所以我認為在危機時期，我們必須要建立一個標準的危機溝通管理模式，讓正確的時間、正確的訊息，把資訊跟揣測分開清楚，帶領媒體的報導框架，這是非常重要的。就是說，未來我們政府針對這樣的危機處理跟發言必須要簡短、重複、清晰，最好是有一個完整的統一窗口，像過去疫情期間有一個指揮中心，所以我們很快速的可以知道相關資訊，但是現在食品安全的問題其實是滿多元的，有些時候是跟農業部管轄相關，有些時候跟衛福部管轄相關，所以我希望行政院的整合必須要很清楚，像上次食安辦的主任許先生也有談到，上一次就是一個我們曾經遇到的問題，當然主任也很快速的澄清了這個問題，只是我們不可以在資訊的傳播上面再多出疑問句或者是再多出其他跟此案不相關的物品，這些都不能夠再次出聲、再次發現。這次我很高興農業部在第一時間就把可能會造成的問題跟不會造成的問題做釐清，把傳聞跟事實分清楚，這是危機溝通非常重要的一部分，希望未來衛福部或者是行政院體系能夠繼承農業部這樣的傳統，用更完整的方式把這個發言的系統陳述出來，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員。","接下來請賴惠員、賴惠員，賴惠員委員不在。","請吳思瑤、吳思瑤，吳思瑤委員不在。","請徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩委員不在。","請游顥、游顥，游顥委員不在。","請吳秉叡、吳秉叡，吳秉叡委員不在。","請鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","請鄭天財、鄭天財，鄭天財委員不在。","請李柏毅、李柏毅，李柏毅委員不在。","請何欣純、何欣純，何欣純委員不在。","本日會議詢答全部結束。","委員邱鎮軍、王鴻薇所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員邱鎮軍書面質詢：","1130401衛環委員會寶林、小林食安事件書面質詢稿","邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。","食安問題連環爆，一波未平一波又起，繼蘇丹紅事件，近日再度爆發米酵菌酸食安風暴，截至31日，累計已有31人受害，其中2人死亡、5人重症；另外日本小林製藥紅麴保健食品含有軟毛青黴酸，國內已經有226件使用其原料的產品下架，截至30日國內已有3人通報受害出現腎病變。","《題目一、寶林茶室米酵菌酸食安事件》","Q1-1：過去疫調專家認為米酵菌酸無法在人體內繁殖，但這次「經過將近1周急救治療、葉克膜協助代謝，身體還能驗出殘留米酵菌酸成分」，專家認為間接證實米酵菌酸可能在人體內繁殖，請問部長是否同意這種推測？","Q1-2：目前包含死者及較重症患者已有8例驗出米酵菌酸，請問目前會產生米酵菌酸的「椰毒亞型」「唐菖蒲伯克氏菌」，是否可能存在本土食材？還是隨國外食材引進？","Q1-3：由於店內相關食材皆未驗出米酵菌酸，目前傾向為店內後製過程產生問題，請問前一批出問題之粄條相關成分有沒有使用國外食材？目前有沒有掌握寶林茶室有哪些可疑食材？分別來自那些國家？","Q1-4：現在消費者談粄條色變，形成更大的食安風暴，請問包含粄條在內的國內新鮮米製品，到底安不安全？應該注意的食材到底有哪些？","Q1-5：農業部已經強調，國產食材是安全的，但民眾仍然會擔心害怕。請問衛福部何時可以提出針對椰子、玉米、米製品等製成食品的安全指引？","結論：部長，民眾恐慌的事，就是大事，目前已經確定這次米酵菌酸事件只發生在寶林茶室，並且傾向是在後製過程產生，本席希望衛福部可以同步進行，在三週內儘快提出相關食品安全指引，以穩定民生消費市場。","《議題二、小林製藥紅麴保健食品食安事件》","Q2-1：針對日本紅麴保健食品事件，食藥署表示將透過食安基金補助國內受害民眾，打海外團體訴訟，但小林製藥已經表示對於台灣受害者，會給予同等賠償，應該有更快速的作為。請問衛福部是否可以投過相關管道接洽，儘快協助民眾快速洽辦取得賠償？","Q2-2：針對有受害者指出，她是相信政府認證，所以選購國家小綠人標章認證的紅麴健康食品，沒想到反而出問題，顯然國家標章認證不等於安全保證，希望政府精進作為，讓人民可以信賴。請問薛部長會不會檢討精進標章認證作業？如何協助民眾啟動國內產品責任保險理賠？","《題目三、追蹤蘇丹紅事件一個月承諾》","Q3-1：針對上次蘇丹紅事件，部長承諾一個月完成可疑批次產品全面清查，全面下架回收，只剩三天，請問目前進度如何？","這次事件是國內食安全面失守的系統性事件，本席看到跨部會有提出四大精進作為，但針對自主檢驗，檢驗公司的通報責任，並未納入精進作為，希望衛福部要持續精進，做到即時控管。","Q3-2：請問環境部化學署，本席看到環境部列管57種危險化學物質的食品及原料中，竟然含有醋酸、檸檬酸等15種食品添加物化學品。雖然政府有說明主要是針對與食品添加物同品項，但沒有經衛福部查驗登記核可並取得許可證字號之化學物質。但仍與「危險化學物質」請問這樣是不是會造成民眾誤解？","結論：為了避免讓民眾產生誤解恐慌，本席建議應該分級公告，並且定期檢討。"],["委員王鴻薇書面質詢：","1130401立法委員王鴻薇立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議","一、針對日本小林製要紅麴延燒國內，請統計受害人數，並建立國內受害者向日本申訴機制，避免國人持續受害無法求償。"],["主席：現在作以下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復。委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會。","散會（13時53分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":300,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-10","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","劉建國","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","盧縣一","洪孟楷","徐巧芯","楊曜","羅智強","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","李坤城","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳瑩","李彥秀","王鴻薇","徐富癸","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、環境部、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護會、臺灣菸酒股份有\n限公司就「蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅麴原料以及寶林茶室食物中毒案等重大食安事件之檢討與策進作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150832","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150832","tool":"pyannote","id":"150832-pyannote"},"job_id":"R9xJtCkXIvm6LRGF","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 187.742, \"end\": 187.762, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 187.762, \"end\": 187.782, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"：\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"冠\", \"start\": 187.782, \"end\": 187.922, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 187.922, \"end\": 187.942, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 210.191, \"end\": 234.723, \"text\": \"那過去在疫情期間有一個指揮中心所以說我們很快速的可以知道但是現在食品安全的問題食安的問題其實是蠻多元的有些時候是跟農業部管轄相關有些時候跟衛福部管轄相關所以我希望行政院的整合必須要很清楚像上次這個許先生我們的食安辦的也有談到食安部的主任那上一次就是一個我們曾經遇到的問題那當然\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 210.191, \"end\": 210.491, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 210.491, \"end\": 210.711, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 210.711, \"end\": 211.332, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"疫\", \"start\": 211.332, \"end\": 211.452, \"score\": 0.59}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 211.452, \"end\": 211.632, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 211.632, 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00:02:14,675\n而且這一些病人都這一個共通的這一個特色就是有食用果條所以其他部分的話大概就不相關了這個果條到底是怎麼樣產生敏效菌酸現在還在查\n\n7\n00:02:15,165 --> 00:02:43,764\n部長我認為危機溝通要更加有明確的指引就是說哪些食品在怎麼樣的保存方式實用無虞然後你要說明清楚我們不希望讓這種此產品若保存不當可能導致米酵菌酸等等或者說經此產品移等等等等這樣的訊息充斥在整個媒體變成主流的方式所以這個時候政府要負起的這個可信訊息的責任就非常的重大那根據CDC的危機和緊急風險\n\n8\n00:02:45,305 --> 00:02:47,086\n蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅\n\n9\n00:03:07,722 --> 00:03:07,942\n臺灣福利部長：陳冠廷\n\n10\n00:03:30,191 --> 00:03:54,723\n那過去在疫情期間有一個指揮中心所以說我們很快速的可以知道但是現在食品安全的問題食安的問題其實是蠻多元的有些時候是跟農業部管轄相關有些時候跟衛福部管轄相關所以我希望行政院的整合必須要很清楚像上次這個許先生我們的食安辦的也有談到食安部的主任那上一次就是一個我們曾經遇到的問題那當然\n\n11\n00:03:56,585 --> 00:04:11,502\n這個主任也很快速的有澄清這個問題只是說我們要必須不可以在資訊的傳播上面再多出疑問句或者是再多出其他跟此案不相關的相關的物品這些都不能夠再次出聲再次發現\n\n12\n00:04:12,443 --> 00:04:12,843\n好謝謝陳冠廷委員接下來請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t2091\t主席好,我們請部長好,有請薛部長委員好\n21161\t35742\t部長好其實剛才幾位農業縣的委員都有特別談到對生產端的這一個影響那我們當然知道說最近這個寶林茶室的食安問題他除了是消費端以外生產端他對我們中南部南部的縣市影響非常大\n36443\t61137\t那王必勝次長他已經表示說23日的進貨的35項食材都沒有驗出米酵菌酸所以這個部分他們認為是前批的這個貨品是有問題的我想不管目前的食品的狀況我想會有因為大量的媒體報導然後把農產品跟這個米酵菌酸做連結這是現在我們遇到的\n61877\t63458\t我們目前衛福部並沒有對全國的農產品去做普遍的檢測\n88001\t113558\t我們現在針對的對象是涉及到這個個案的一個食材的一個檢測到目前為止這一個可以確定是米消菌酸引起來的中毒事件而這個米消菌酸只有在這一家寶林茶室在信義區的A13這邊的這一家發現到\n117219\t134675\t而且這一些病人都這一個共通的這一個特色就是有食用果條所以其他部分的話大概就不相關了這個果條到底是怎麼樣產生敏效菌酸現在還在查\n135165\t163764\t部長我認為危機溝通要更加有明確的指引就是說哪些食品在怎麼樣的保存方式實用無虞然後你要說明清楚我們不希望讓這種此產品若保存不當可能導致米酵菌酸等等或者說經此產品移等等等等這樣的訊息充斥在整個媒體變成主流的方式所以這個時候政府要負起的這個可信訊息的責任就非常的重大那根據CDC的危機和緊急風險\n165305\t167086\t蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅\n187722\t187942\t臺灣福利部長：陳冠廷\n210191\t234723\t那過去在疫情期間有一個指揮中心所以說我們很快速的可以知道但是現在食品安全的問題食安的問題其實是蠻多元的有些時候是跟農業部管轄相關有些時候跟衛福部管轄相關所以我希望行政院的整合必須要很清楚像上次這個許先生我們的食安辦的也有談到食安部的主任那上一次就是一個我們曾經遇到的問題那當然\n236585\t251502\t這個主任也很快速的有澄清這個問題只是說我們要必須不可以在資訊的傳播上面再多出疑問句或者是再多出其他跟此案不相關的相關的物品這些都不能夠再次出聲再次發現\n252443\t252843\t好 謝謝陳冠廷委員接下來請\n","txt":"主席好,我們請部長好,有請薛部長委員好\n部長好其實剛才幾位農業縣的委員都有特別談到對生產端的這一個影響那我們當然知道說最近這個寶林茶室的食安問題他除了是消費端以外生產端他對我們中南部南部的縣市影響非常大\n那王必勝次長他已經表示說23日的進貨的35項食材都沒有驗出米酵菌酸所以這個部分他們認為是前批的這個貨品是有問題的我想不管目前的食品的狀況我想會有因為大量的媒體報導然後把農產品跟這個米酵菌酸做連結這是現在我們遇到的\n我們目前衛福部並沒有對全國的農產品去做普遍的檢測\n我們現在針對的對象是涉及到這個個案的一個食材的一個檢測到目前為止這一個可以確定是米消菌酸引起來的中毒事件而這個米消菌酸只有在這一家寶林茶室在信義區的A13這邊的這一家發現到\n而且這一些病人都這一個共通的這一個特色就是有食用果條所以其他部分的話大概就不相關了這個果條到底是怎麼樣產生敏效菌酸現在還在查\n部長我認為危機溝通要更加有明確的指引就是說哪些食品在怎麼樣的保存方式實用無虞然後你要說明清楚我們不希望讓這種此產品若保存不當可能導致米酵菌酸等等或者說經此產品移等等等等這樣的訊息充斥在整個媒體變成主流的方式所以這個時候政府要負起的這個可信訊息的責任就非常的重大那根據CDC的危機和緊急風險\n蘇丹紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅、小林製藥紅\n臺灣福利部長：陳冠廷\n那過去在疫情期間有一個指揮中心所以說我們很快速的可以知道但是現在食品安全的問題食安的問題其實是蠻多元的有些時候是跟農業部管轄相關有些時候跟衛福部管轄相關所以我希望行政院的整合必須要很清楚像上次這個許先生我們的食安辦的也有談到食安部的主任那上一次就是一個我們曾經遇到的問題那當然\n這個主任也很快速的有澄清這個問題只是說我們要必須不可以在資訊的傳播上面再多出疑問句或者是再多出其他跟此案不相關的相關的物品這些都不能夠再次出聲再次發現\n好 謝謝陳冠廷委員接下來請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:02.091\n主席好,我們請部長好,有請薛部長委員好\n\n00:21.161 --> 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