{"id":150850,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150850","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/724864d01d76e7fc4582c4ae06e5b025da4f99791438ae9df8ba9b0039caa7a657a6ec89d01bdfc95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"15:17:00 - 15:32:39","影片長度":"00:15:39","會議時間":"2024-04-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團，為避免物價因電價調漲，民生痛苦指數飆升，因此反對台電公司調漲電價，建請院會作成決議：立即停止調漲電價，並要求行政院責成相關部會即刻檢討現行能源政策並提出因應對策與配套措施，以兼顧人民生計、維持供電穩定及台電公司之正常營運。是否有當？請公決案等3案。（3月29日） \n二、審計長列席報告中華民國111年度中央政府總決算審核報告等案審核經過並備諮詢。（4月2日）\n三、3月29日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、4月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議","id":"院會-11-1-7","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7},"date":"2024-04-02","duration":939,"end_time":"2024-04-02T15:32:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-02T15:17:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":876,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（15時17分）謝謝主席，有請審計長。"],["主席：再請陳審計長備詢。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：審計長好，辛苦了。就如今天的審計報告所提到，我們審計部的主要職責就是督促政府進行良善治理，實現國家永續的發展，所以審計部對一些民生等重大議題都納入了主要的查核要點之內，可是本席發現對於族群的議題，審計部是比較少在碰觸的，比如有關新住民的議題。本席也有發現有關於新住民發展基金，移民署裡面有一個新住民發展基金，已經連續二年，連續二年出現短絀的狀況，而且是連續二年都必須移用以前的資金餘額來做支應，這部分可能審計部應該要特別來留意。當然，本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現短絀的現象，譬如說像基金的使用是更趨多元化，又譬如說新住民跟新住民二代的培力也好，或是特殊境遇的補助，甚至新住民子女的獎助學金等等。對於這個新住民發展基金的預算規模是不是要增加或者是財源要如何增加，我想審計部可能跟相關單位要有一個建議，譬如說像我們的長照基金，報告裡面有提到是來自於房地合一稅、遺贈稅或是菸捐、菸稅等等，可是新住民發展基金的財源是屬於公務預算，所以我們在想它的財源是不是不夠多元，對於這個部分，審計部在做查核的時候可能需要去做瞭解，關於這個部分，審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：原住民啊？新住民……"],["羅委員美玲：新住民！"],["陳審計長瑞敏：新住民、新住民，對不起。"],["羅委員美玲：我不曉得審計部對這個部分有沒有瞭解？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：新住民相對上也算是弱勢，新住民基金其實要的也不多，我們有2兆、快3兆的財源，它只是要幾億，我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門多給他們充分、充足的資源，來保障這些弱勢的新住民。"],["羅委員美玲：我很肯定審計長的回答，我非常肯定，因為現在的情況，尤其連續二年都已經有短絀的現象，所以我希望行政院也能聽到審計長的這個回應，這是非常友善的回應，就是有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加。再來，我們有看到的就是，雖然說我們新住民發展基金的預算有短絀的現象，可是我們發現其實它有部分業務的執行率不是那麼的好，是不佳的，譬如剛才這個報告裡面有提到的，我們對於少子女化對策的計畫，截至112年底，行政院其實已經投入了3,688億的經費，包含了幼兒的托育，可是我們發現在新住民發展基金裡面，辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計畫的執行率在112年度只有64.34%，所以這個部分可能也是審計部應該要去瞭解的。因為新住民每一年有將近2萬人來到臺灣這個大家庭，我想托育的需求絕對是有的，可是我們發現這個部分的執行率比我們想像中的還要低很多，所以我在想這個部分審計部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現問題，為什麼這個部分的執行率比我們想像中的還要低很多？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我們會再督促內政部對這個方面來做加強，因為對於新住民這個部分，我們要給他們一個友善的環境，我們會來努力。"],["羅委員美玲：是，謝謝今天審計長很快速的肯定跟支持，所以我在想說，新住民，尤其是新住民來到臺灣如果含第二代的話，其實已經超過百萬人了，我想他們的境遇也好，福利也好，都是我們中央政府必須要來重視的。我也不希望因為他們可能是屬於比較少數的族群，中央對這部分就會比較忽略，尤其是審計部，因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關於新住民的議題，當然可能它是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中一部分，並沒有特別拿出來做審核，可是我們覺得其實這很重要，都很重要，尤其現在新住民二代進入到大專院校就讀，目前的學生已高達9萬人，如果這些孩子能夠在國家好好的培育之下，都是國家未來很重要的助力，尤其是新住民二代，我也希望在新住民發展基金這個部分，如果我們真的能夠增加預算規模的話，未來這個部分對於孩子的就學也好，就業也好，我覺得都有很大的幫助，尤其是獎助學金的補助方面，所以我真的很謝謝審計長今天做出友善的回應。","再來，我們發現他們在公共托育這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況下還發現另外一個問題，那就是新住民的公共托育其實還有一些比較特殊的需求，我們有很多新住民媽媽，其實在語言方面可能是會比較有問題的，可能對中文比較不熟悉，他們需要的幼兒保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的要求。結果我們在盤點全國22個縣市後發現，對新住民公共托育的部分並不是那麼的友善，這可能也是我們政府需要去加油、督促的部分，譬如說六都，六都是新住民人口數最多的地方，舉個例子來講，像新北市是全國新住民人數最多的縣市，新北市可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2,819人，當然新住民的小孩也可以送到一般保母那邊去做托育，可是我剛剛也有提到，就是新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求，他們可能要的就是這個保母必須要有新住民的背景，合格的保母，譬如我們以新北市來講好了，有2,819位可收托一般幼兒之保母，可是可收托新住民幼兒的保母只有4位，臺北市也是一樣，有2,317位可收托一般幼兒的保母人數，可是卻只有3位可收托新住民幼兒之保母，比例是非常非常的低。所以我們說政府在托育部分投入了很多的經費，可是在新住民幼兒保母這部分，我們發現是不太友善的，這個不友善來自於哪裡？可能我們並沒有很積極的培育新住民去考取合格的保母執照等等，所以衍生像六都可收托新住民幼兒的保母人數只有個位數，甚至有些縣市像新竹縣、苗栗縣、南投縣、雲林、嘉義、臺東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江縣、金門縣是掛零的，如果新住民媽媽想要找一個懂得自己國家語言的合格保母，這些縣市一個都沒有，一個都沒有！所以我想在托育的環境方面，對新住民來講比較不友善，關於這部分，我也希望審計部能夠重視，跟相關的單位來討論，這部分我們怎麼來提升？審計長。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：從委員質詢的這些資料來看，我們好像忽略了新住民這一塊的照顧，所以剛剛我有講……"],["羅委員美玲：要再加強，審計長，我必須這樣說，如果說完全都忽略，說實在的，良心上我也不能這麼說，其實我們有很多有益於新住民的政策，可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了，像托育這個部分就是。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：所以剛剛委員講的，我們把新住民發展基金加大，再來就把這些，像這一種的，因為各縣市、各縣市都零星的，就統一由內政部的主責單位統一來做，我們是希望幫忙把委員發現的這些問題，我們一塊一塊地把它補上，就是說把忽略掉的部分補上，我們會請內政部的相關單位對這一方面來加強。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，很謝謝審計長。另外還有時間，我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的。教育部在109年12月7號訂定發布「新住民就讀大學辦法」，主要是要讓我們的新住民有更友善多元的升學管道，其實立意是非常良善的，可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有3年了，整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹，這部分可能我之後還是得要跟教育部來做探討。","審計長，您可以看一下，這個「新住民就讀大學辦法」實施後連續兩年的錄取人數有多低呢？我們先看111學年度，111學年度的四年制日間學士班，全國所有大專院校開出來的招生名額有1,900人，結果報名的有多少人呢？25人。錄取多少人呢？6人。註冊人數呢？有3人。四年制的進修學士班招生名額是346人，報名人數2人，錄取人數是1人。再來還有碩士班、博士班就更不用說了，那個成績真的……招生的人數甚至還掛零。112年更慘，112年四年制日間學士班招生人數增加到1,910人，可是報名人數只有3人，錄取人數3人，註冊3人。","好像諸如此類的，你說政府有沒有做？有，都有做，有訂定了這些政策，可是執行率真的是非常、非常的差，到底問題出在哪裡呢？其實我們有發現，我們發現如果去問教育部，教育部會說有啊，我們都有公告在大學的網站，公告全部都有啊，但問題是新住民就不知道有哪些學校，他們根本不知道臺灣有哪些學校，就算他想要升學，想要進修，他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系，所以表示這些資訊的傳遞管道出了問題了。就是教育部擬定了相關辦法，大學端各大專院校確確實實有去做了，可是這些資訊如何下放到基層的新住民，好像中間的管道就斷掉了。如果本席沒有在這裡提的話，搞不好我們審計長還不瞭解目前這種狀況。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：我不瞭解，謝謝委員提出這個問題，關於資訊不對稱或者是造成整個族群落差，我們的想法也是和委員一樣，應該就直接看看哪些新住民的小孩已經要就讀大學的，就直接告訴他，讓他得到第一手的資訊。"],["羅委員美玲：審計長您誤會了！我講的是新住民，不是新住民二代。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：是新住民啦！"],["羅委員美玲：是新住民。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：是。"],["羅委員美玲：其實臺灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或者是升學的管道，所以我們是有比照僑外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學，而且是免於考試，就是在不用學測的情況之下他可以去報考，可是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道，並不知道有這些就學的資訊，我覺得非常的可惜，不管所有的大學、大專院校開了多少的這個科系，新住民就是不知道。去年我在全國各地辦了十幾場將近20場的新住民座談，我們每次就問：你們知不知道學校有哪些科系可以去就讀嗎？他們幾乎是百分之百告訴我：我們不知道。我們現在的問題就是在上面做上面的、中央做中央的，可是基層完全感受不到，也接受不到這個訊息，這才是問題所在。","本席為什麼說新住民這種族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到，可能我們講的都是一些比較大的議題、一些民生的議題，可是我們發現新住民的議題也很重要啊！他們來到臺灣，其實很希望在臺灣落地生根，適應臺灣的生活，包含能夠在這裡順利就學、就業，可是不管上面做了多少，很多新住民都無感，無感來自於哪裡？因為他們不知道要這個資訊從哪裡來的到，他們也不知道原來我可以到大學去念書，原來某某大學有我想要念的科系，關於這些資訊要怎麼樣下放給新住民，我想這可能就是審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：關於這個部分，要解決這個應該不是太難的問題，教育部可以把各大學的資訊蒐集好以後直接告訴新住民的家庭。"],["羅委員美玲：審計部來督促一下好不好？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：好，我們會來做這件事情。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員美玲的諮詢，也謝謝陳審計長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第15號張委員智倫諮詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","張啓楷","陳培瑜","林思銘","郭國文","許宇甄","范雲","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","羅智強","洪申翰","王鴻薇","羅美玲","張智倫"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2024-04-02"],"gazette_id":"1131801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n審計長列席報告「中華民國111年度中央政府總決算暨附屬單位決算及綜計表審核報告」、「中\n央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第3期特別決算審核報告（中華民國110年度至111年度）」、「中央政\n府嚴重特殊傳染性肺炎防治及紓困振興特別決算審核報告（中華民國109年1月15日至112年6月30\n日）」審核經過並備諮詢－詢答完畢－","agenda_id":"1131801_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"150850","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150850","tool":"pyannote","id":"150850-pyannote"},"job_id":"b5dRJA7kibBKljdg","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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918.769, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 918.769, \"end\": 919.19, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 919.19, \"end\": 919.55, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 919.55, \"end\": 919.67, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 919.67, \"end\": 919.77, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 919.77, \"end\": 920.031, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 920.031, \"end\": 920.551, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 920.551, \"end\": 920.771, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 920.771, \"end\": 920.951, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 920.951, \"end\": 920.971, \"score\": 0.74}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,770 --> 00:00:06,132\n謝謝主席,有請沈記長再請陳沈記長備詢盧委員好\n\n2\n00:00:17,218 --> 00:00:39,537\n審計長好辛苦了就如我們今天的審計報告所提到我們審計部的主要的這個職責呢就是督促政府呢進行良善治理實現這個國家永續的這個發展所以審計部呢對一些民生等重大議題呢都納入了主要的查核的這個要點可是本期發現就是說有關這個族群的議題審計\n\n3\n00:00:41,117 --> 00:00:55,501\n這裏是比較少在碰觸的比如說有關這個新住民的這個議題那本期我發現就是說有關於新住民發展基金移民署裏面有個新住民發展基金已經連續兩年連續兩年出現這個短促的這個狀況而且是連續兩年都必須以用以前的資金餘額來做這個支應\n\n4\n00:01:04,464 --> 00:01:20,931\n這部分可能這審計部應該要特別來做留意的那當然本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現這個短處的這現象比如說像基金的使用是更趨這個多元化比如說新住民跟新住民二代的這個賠利也好或是特殊境遇的這個補助甚至新住民\n\n5\n00:01:22,131 --> 00:01:35,076\n呃子女的這個獎助學金等等那對於這個新竹民發展基金的這個預算規模是不是要來增加或是財源要如何來增加我想這審計部可能跟相關單位可能要有一個一個一個建議\n\n6\n00:01:37,017 --> 00:02:02,578\n那譬如說像我們的長照基金像我們報告裡面有提到說是來自於這個房地合一稅或是這宜貞稅或是煙捐等等可是煙稅等等可是新住民發展的發展基金的裁員他是屬於這個公務預算所以我們在想說他裁員的不夠多元這部分的話是不是說審計部在做查核的部分這個部分可能需要審計部來去做了解這部分的話這個審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎\n\n7\n00:02:05,697 --> 00:02:09,720\n新住民新住民也算我們的再相對向是弱勢他的新住民基金其實要的也不多\n\n8\n00:02:22,549 --> 00:02:44,049\n我們有兩兆快三兆的那個財源他只是要幾億我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門都給他們充分的給他們充足的資源來保障這些弱勢的我很肯定審計長您的回答\n\n9\n00:02:46,011 --> 00:03:12,472\n我非常肯定,尤其是連續兩年都已經有這個短促的這個現象所以說我在希望說行政院這一部分也聽到審計長的這個回應就是非常友善的回應就是說有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加那再來我們有看到就是說雖然說我們新竹發展基金這個預算有短促的這個現象可是我們發現說它其實部分有些業務其實執行率不是那麼的好是不佳的\n\n10\n00:03:13,012 --> 00:03:25,265\n例如我們剛才這報告裏面有提到說我們對於少子女化對策對策計劃裏面截至112年底那行政院其實已經投入了3688億的經費包含了這個幼兒的托育\n\n11\n00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:46,974\n可是我們發現這個新住民發展基金裡面他這個辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計劃裡面的其實他的執行率的112年度其實只有64.34%所以這部分的話可能也是我們\n\n12\n00:03:47,774 --> 00:04:16,937\n省紀部應該要去了解的這個部分因為新住民每一年有將近兩萬人來到台灣這個大家庭我想這個托育的需求絕對是有的可是我們發現說這部分他們的這執行率呢比我們想像中的還要低很多所以我想所以我在想說這部分省紀部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現這個問題到底這個部分為什麼是執行率是如這比我們想像中的還要低很多\n\n13\n00:04:17,657 --> 00:04:45,494\n我們會再來督促列正部對這方面加強因為新住民這一個部分我們要有一個給他一個友善的環境我們會來努力是謝謝今天沈記長很快速跟這個肯定的這個支持所以我在想說新住民這尤其是新住民來到台灣如果含第二代的話其實已經超過百萬人了我想他們的這個禁慾也好福利也好\n\n14\n00:04:45,814 --> 00:05:11,031\n都是我們中央政府呢必須要來重視的那我也不太我也不希望就是說因為他可能是屬於比較屬於少數的族群那中央中央對這部分會比較忽略那尤其是審計部因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關你這個新住民這些議題那當然可能他是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中的一部分並沒有特別的\n\n15\n00:05:11,691 --> 00:05:11,831\n是否\n\n16\n00:05:34,957 --> 00:05:35,257\n我今天真的\n\n17\n00:05:52,359 --> 00:06:05,998\n呃很謝謝呃我們呃我們呃審計長今天一個友善的這個回應哦好那帶來呢我們就是在發現這個呃他們這公共托育的這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況還發現另外一個問題哦那就是說\n\n18\n00:06:09,523 --> 00:06:28,424\n新住民的公共托育呢其實還有一些比較特殊的這個需求我們有很多新住民媽媽其實在語言方面的可能是會比較有問題對中文比較不熟悉他們可能需要的這個幼兒的保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的這個要求結果我們在盤點\n\n19\n00:06:29,485 --> 00:06:56,135\n我們全國22個縣市呢其實讓我們發現說新住民的公共托育這部分不是那麼的友善這可能也是我們政府需要去來加油督促的這個部分了比如說六都六都市新住民人口數最多的地方那舉個例子來講像新北市新北市是全國新住民人數最多的那它可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2819人\n\n20\n00:06:59,036 --> 00:07:28,220\n那當然新住民的小孩也可以送到這個一般的保姆那邊去做托育可是我剛剛有提到就是說新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求他們可能要的就是這個這個保姆也許他必須要有新住民的這個背景合格的這個保姆那比如說我們在新北市來講好了2819位可收托一般幼兒之保姆可是呢可收托新住民幼兒的保姆呢只有4位\n\n21\n00:07:29,465 --> 00:07:47,515\n只有四位那台北市也是一樣2317可收託一般幼兒的保姆人數可是呢我們卻只有三位可收託新住民幼兒制保姆所以比例是非常非常的低所以我們說我們在這個托育這部分呢政府呢\n\n22\n00:07:48,175 --> 00:08:16,608\n投入了很多的這個經費可是我們在新住民幼兒保姆這個部分我們發現是不太友善的那這個友善這個不友善來自於哪裡可能我們並沒有很積極的去培育新住民去考取合格的保姆執照等等所以衍生出像列都列都可收託新住民幼兒之保姆人數只有個位數那甚至有些縣市像新竹縣苗栗縣南投縣\n\n23\n00:08:17,928 --> 00:08:33,243\n雲林、嘉義、台東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江巷、金門縣是掛零的?如果新住民的媽媽想要找一個合格的保姆懂得自己國家的語言的這些縣市一個都沒有\n\n24\n00:08:33,883 --> 00:08:47,780\n一個都沒有所以我想說在托育的環境方面在新住民來講比較不友善所以這部分的話我們也希望審計部這邊來重視跟相關的單位來做一個討論這部分我們怎麼來做提升審計長\n\n25\n00:08:50,588 --> 00:09:17,685\n從委員在這些執行的資料裡面看我們好像忽略了新住民的這一塊的一個照顧所以剛剛我有講道歉加強實際上我必須要說如果說完全的忽略說實在良心上我也不能這麼說其實我們有很多對有益於新住民的政策可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了像這托育的部分就是\n\n26\n00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:41,860\n所以剛剛委員講我們把那個新住民出行把它加大再來就把這些像這種的因為你構線是不是構線是都零星就統一由這些內政部的這些這個單位主責單位來統一把它來做我們是希望幫忙\n\n27\n00:09:43,602 --> 00:09:54,877\n把這個委員發現的這些問題我們一塊一塊把它補上就是說有忽略到的地方的一部分把它補上我們會來請內政部相關單位對這個方面加強\n\n28\n00:09:59,912 --> 00:10:15,649\nOK很謝謝呃沈機長那另外還有一個還有時間我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的教育部在109年12月7號呢我們訂定發布了新住民就讀大學辦法主要是要讓我們新住民的有更\n\n29\n00:10:16,269 --> 00:10:44,049\n有善多元的這個升學的這個管道其實利益是非常良善的可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有三年了這個整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹這部分可能我之後還是得要跟這個教育部來做一個探討呃沈區長您可以看一下我們這個新住民就讀大學辦法連續兩年的錄取人數是多低呢我們先看111學年度\n\n30\n00:10:45,770 --> 00:11:04,076\n111學年度的我們先挑一下學士四年制日間學士班全國所有的大專院校所開出來的招生名額有1900人結果報名的有多少人呢25人入取多少人呢6人註冊人數有3人\n\n31\n00:11:07,301 --> 00:11:30,049\n那四年制的進修學士班招生人數招生名額是346人報名人數兩個錄取人數是一個那不管那再來還有碩士班博士班是更不用說了那個成績真的那個招生的人數甚至還掛零那112年呢更慘了112年學士班四年制日間學士班\n\n32\n00:11:30,709 --> 00:11:53,571\n招生人數增加到1910人﹐可是報名人數只有3人﹐入取人數3人﹐註冊3人﹐好像諸如此類的﹐像﹐你說政府有沒有做﹐有啊﹐都有做﹐有訂立了這些的這個政策﹐可是執行率真的是非常非常的差﹐到底問題出在哪裡呢﹐其實我們有發現\n\n33\n00:11:56,138 --> 00:12:19,930\n我們有發現說有啊你問教育部有啊我們都有公告在大學大學的這個這個網站啊公告全部都有啊可是問題是新住民就不知道說有哪些學校他根本不知道你台灣有哪些學校就算他想要升學想要去進修他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系所以表示說這些資訊的管道出了問題了\n\n34\n00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:36,804\n就是教育部他擬定的這些辦法大學各大專院校確確實實有去做了可是這些資訊如何下放到這個基層的新住民好像這個中間的管道就斷掉了\n\n35\n00:12:38,188 --> 00:13:05,756\n如果本席沒有在這裡提的話搞不好我們省級長還不瞭解目前這種狀況謝謝委員提出這個問題這個租姓不對稱或者是造成這個整個族型落差我的想法也是和委員一樣應該就直接看看哪些新知名的小孩已經要就讀大學了就直接告訴他讓他得到第一手的租姓省級長你誤會了\n\n36\n00:13:06,636 --> 00:13:29,165\n我講的是新住民不是新住民新住民是新住民新住民其實台灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或是升學的這個管道所以我們是有比照橋外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學而且是免於考試\n\n37\n00:13:30,245 --> 00:13:49,387\n好就是不用學測的情況之下他可以去報報考可是問題是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道並不知道有這些就學的資訊覺得非常的可惜不管你所有的大學大專院校開了多少的這個科系\n\n38\n00:13:50,228 --> 00:13:51,430\n新住民就是不知道\n\n39\n00:14:06,131 --> 00:14:18,241\n幾乎是百分之百告訴我說我們不知道我們現在的問題就是說中央做上面做上面中央做中央的可是基層完全感受不到也接受不到這個訊息這才是問題所在\n\n40\n00:14:22,544 --> 00:14:46,883\n這才是問題所在所以本期如果說新住民為什麼我說族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到可能我們都是一些比較大的議題一些民生的議題可是我們發現說新住民的議題也很重要啊來到台灣其實很希望在台灣落地生根適應台灣的這個生活那包含能夠在這裡順利就學就業可是不管上面做了多少\n\n41\n00:14:47,623 --> 00:15:10,629\n可是很多新住民都無感無感來自於哪裡不知道這個資訊是從哪裡來的他們也不知道說原來我可以到大學去念書原來某某大學有這個我所向我想要去念的科系可是這些資訊怎麼要下放給新住民我想這可能就是我們審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討的是咧\n\n42\n00:15:11,943 --> 00:15:20,971\n這一個部分委員是這樣我們應該解決這個不是太難的問題教育部的夠大誰可以把它收集好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4770\t6132\t謝謝主席,有請沈記長再請陳沈記長備詢盧委員好\n17218\t39537\t審計長好辛苦了就如我們今天的審計報告所提到我們審計部的主要的這個職責呢就是督促政府呢進行良善治理實現這個國家永續的這個發展所以審計部呢對一些民生等重大議題呢都納入了主要的查核的這個要點可是本期發現就是說有關這個族群的議題審計\n41117\t55501\t這裏是比較少在碰觸的比如說有關這個新住民的這個議題那本期我發現就是說有關於新住民發展基金移民署裏面有個新住民發展基金已經連續兩年連續兩年出現這個短促的這個狀況而且是連續兩年都必須以用以前的資金餘額來做這個支應\n64464\t80931\t這部分可能這審計部應該要特別來做留意的那當然本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現這個短處的這現象比如說像基金的使用是更趨這個多元化比如說新住民跟新住民二代的這個賠利也好或是特殊境遇的這個補助甚至新住民\n82131\t95076\t呃子女的這個獎助學金等等那對於這個新竹民發展基金的這個預算規模是不是要來增加或是財源要如何來增加我想這審計部可能跟相關單位可能要有一個一個一個建議\n97017\t122578\t那譬如說像我們的長照基金像我們報告裡面有提到說是來自於這個房地合一稅或是這宜貞稅或是煙捐等等可是煙稅等等可是新住民發展的發展基金的裁員他是屬於這個公務預算所以我們在想說他裁員的不夠多元這部分的話是不是說審計部在做查核的部分這個部分可能需要審計部來去做了解這部分的話這個審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎\n125697\t129720\t新住民新住民也算我們的再相對向是弱勢他的新住民基金其實要的也不多\n142549\t164049\t我們有兩兆快三兆的那個財源他只是要幾億我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門都給他們充分的給他們充足的資源來保障這些弱勢的我很肯定審計長您的回答\n166011\t192472\t我非常肯定,尤其是連續兩年都已經有這個短促的這個現象所以說我在希望說行政院這一部分也聽到審計長的這個回應就是非常友善的回應就是說有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加那再來我們有看到就是說雖然說我們新竹發展基金這個預算有短促的這個現象可是我們發現說它其實部分有些業務其實執行率不是那麼的好是不佳的\n193012\t205265\t例如我們剛才這報告裏面有提到說我們對於少子女化對策對策計劃裏面截至112年底那行政院其實已經投入了3688億的經費包含了這個幼兒的托育\n209309\t226974\t可是我們發現這個新住民發展基金裡面他這個辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計劃裡面的其實他的執行率的112年度其實只有64.34%所以這部分的話可能也是我們\n227774\t256937\t省紀部應該要去了解的這個部分因為新住民每一年有將近兩萬人來到台灣這個大家庭我想這個托育的需求絕對是有的可是我們發現說這部分他們的這執行率呢比我們想像中的還要低很多所以我想所以我在想說這部分省紀部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現這個問題到底這個部分為什麼是執行率是如這比我們想像中的還要低很多\n257657\t285494\t我們會再來督促列正部對這方面加強因為新住民這一個部分我們要有一個給他一個友善的環境我們會來努力是謝謝今天沈記長很快速跟這個肯定的這個支持所以我在想說新住民這尤其是新住民來到台灣如果含第二代的話其實已經超過百萬人了我想他們的這個禁慾也好福利也好\n285814\t311031\t都是我們中央政府呢必須要來重視的那我也不太我也不希望就是說因為他可能是屬於比較屬於少數的族群那中央中央對這部分會比較忽略那尤其是審計部因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關你這個新住民這些議題那當然可能他是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中的一部分並沒有特別的\n311691\t311831\t是否\n334957\t335257\t我今天真的\n352359\t365998\t呃很謝謝呃我們呃我們呃審計長今天一個友善的這個回應哦好那帶來呢我們就是在發現這個呃他們這公共托育的這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況還發現另外一個問題哦那就是說\n369523\t388424\t新住民的公共托育呢其實還有一些比較特殊的這個需求我們有很多新住民媽媽其實在語言方面的可能是會比較有問題對中文比較不熟悉他們可能需要的這個幼兒的保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的這個要求結果我們在盤點\n389485\t416135\t我們全國22個縣市呢其實讓我們發現說新住民的公共托育這部分不是那麼的友善這可能也是我們政府需要去來加油督促的這個部分了比如說六都六都市新住民人口數最多的地方那舉個例子來講像新北市新北市是全國新住民人數最多的那它可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2819人\n419036\t448220\t那當然新住民的小孩也可以送到這個一般的保姆那邊去做托育可是我剛剛有提到就是說新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求他們可能要的就是這個這個保姆也許他必須要有新住民的這個背景合格的這個保姆那比如說我們在新北市來講好了2819位可收托一般幼兒之保姆可是呢可收托新住民幼兒的保姆呢只有4位\n449465\t467515\t只有四位那台北市也是一樣2317可收託一般幼兒的保姆人數可是呢我們卻只有三位可收託新住民幼兒制保姆所以比例是非常非常的低所以我們說我們在這個托育這部分呢政府呢\n468175\t496608\t投入了很多的這個經費可是我們在新住民幼兒保姆這個部分我們發現是不太友善的那這個友善這個不友善來自於哪裡可能我們並沒有很積極的去培育新住民去考取合格的保姆執照等等所以衍生出像列都列都可收託新住民幼兒之保姆人數只有個位數那甚至有些縣市像新竹縣苗栗縣南投縣\n497928\t513243\t雲林、嘉義、台東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江巷、金門縣是掛零的?如果新住民的媽媽想要找一個合格的保姆懂得自己國家的語言的這些縣市一個都沒有\n513883\t527780\t一個都沒有所以我想說在托育的環境方面在新住民來講比較不友善所以這部分的話我們也希望審計部這邊來重視跟相關的單位來做一個討論這部分我們怎麼來做提升審計長\n530588\t557685\t從委員在這些執行的資料裡面看我們好像忽略了新住民的這一塊的一個照顧所以剛剛我有講道歉加強實際上我必須要說如果說完全的忽略說實在良心上我也不能這麼說其實我們有很多對有益於新住民的政策可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了像這托育的部分就是\n558700\t581860\t所以剛剛委員講我們把那個新住民出行把它加大再來就把這些像這種的因為你構線是不是構線是都零星就統一由這些內政部的這些這個單位主責單位來統一把它來做我們是希望幫忙\n583602\t594877\t把這個委員發現的這些問題我們一塊一塊把它補上就是說有忽略到的地方的一部分把它補上我們會來請內政部相關單位對這個方面加強\n599912\t615649\tOK很謝謝呃沈機長那另外還有一個還有時間我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的教育部在109年12月7號呢我們訂定發布了新住民就讀大學辦法主要是要讓我們新住民的有更\n616269\t644049\t有善多元的這個升學的這個管道其實利益是非常良善的可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有三年了這個整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹這部分可能我之後還是得要跟這個教育部來做一個探討呃沈區長您可以看一下我們這個新住民就讀大學辦法連續兩年的錄取人數是多低呢我們先看111學年度\n645770\t664076\t111學年度的我們先挑一下學士四年制日間學士班全國所有的大專院校所開出來的招生名額有1900人結果報名的有多少人呢25人入取多少人呢6人註冊人數有3人\n667301\t690049\t那四年制的進修學士班招生人數招生名額是346人報名人數兩個錄取人數是一個那不管那再來還有碩士班博士班是更不用說了那個成績真的那個招生的人數甚至還掛零那112年呢更慘了112年學士班四年制日間學士班\n690709\t713571\t招生人數增加到1910人﹐可是報名人數只有3人﹐入取人數3人﹐註冊3人﹐好像諸如此類的﹐像﹐你說政府有沒有做﹐有啊﹐都有做﹐有訂立了這些的這個政策﹐可是執行率真的是非常非常的差﹐到底問題出在哪裡呢﹐其實我們有發現\n716138\t739930\t我們有發現說有啊你問教育部有啊我們都有公告在大學大學的這個這個網站啊公告全部都有啊可是問題是新住民就不知道說有哪些學校他根本不知道你台灣有哪些學校就算他想要升學想要去進修他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系所以表示說這些資訊的管道出了問題了\n742090\t756804\t就是教育部他擬定的這些辦法大學各大專院校確確實實有去做了可是這些資訊如何下放到這個基層的新住民好像這個中間的管道就斷掉了\n758188\t785756\t如果本席沒有在這裡提的話搞不好我們省級長還不瞭解目前這種狀況謝謝委員提出這個問題這個租姓不對稱或者是造成這個整個族型落差我的想法也是和委員一樣應該就直接看看哪些新知名的小孩已經要就讀大學了就直接告訴他讓他得到第一手的租姓省級長你誤會了\n786636\t809165\t我講的是新住民不是新住民新住民是新住民新住民其實台灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或是升學的這個管道所以我們是有比照橋外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學而且是免於考試\n810245\t829387\t好就是不用學測的情況之下他可以去報報考可是問題是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道並不知道有這些就學的資訊覺得非常的可惜不管你所有的大學大專院校開了多少的這個科系\n830228\t831430\t新住民就是不知道\n846131\t858241\t幾乎是百分之百告訴我說我們不知道我們現在的問題就是說中央做上面做上面中央做中央的可是基層完全感受不到也接受不到這個訊息這才是問題所在\n862544\t886883\t這才是問題所在所以本期如果說新住民為什麼我說族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到可能我們都是一些比較大的議題一些民生的議題可是我們發現說新住民的議題也很重要啊來到台灣其實很希望在台灣落地生根適應台灣的這個生活那包含能夠在這裡順利就學就業可是不管上面做了多少\n887623\t910629\t可是很多新住民都無感無感來自於哪裡不知道這個資訊是從哪裡來的他們也不知道說原來我可以到大學去念書原來某某大學有這個我所向我想要去念的科系可是這些資訊怎麼要下放給新住民我想這可能就是我們審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討的是咧\n911943\t920971\t這一個部分委員是這樣我們應該解決這個不是太難的問題教育部的夠大誰可以把它收集好\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請沈記長再請陳沈記長備詢盧委員好\n審計長好辛苦了就如我們今天的審計報告所提到我們審計部的主要的這個職責呢就是督促政府呢進行良善治理實現這個國家永續的這個發展所以審計部呢對一些民生等重大議題呢都納入了主要的查核的這個要點可是本期發現就是說有關這個族群的議題審計\n這裏是比較少在碰觸的比如說有關這個新住民的這個議題那本期我發現就是說有關於新住民發展基金移民署裏面有個新住民發展基金已經連續兩年連續兩年出現這個短促的這個狀況而且是連續兩年都必須以用以前的資金餘額來做這個支應\n這部分可能這審計部應該要特別來做留意的那當然本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現這個短處的這現象比如說像基金的使用是更趨這個多元化比如說新住民跟新住民二代的這個賠利也好或是特殊境遇的這個補助甚至新住民\n呃子女的這個獎助學金等等那對於這個新竹民發展基金的這個預算規模是不是要來增加或是財源要如何來增加我想這審計部可能跟相關單位可能要有一個一個一個建議\n那譬如說像我們的長照基金像我們報告裡面有提到說是來自於這個房地合一稅或是這宜貞稅或是煙捐等等可是煙稅等等可是新住民發展的發展基金的裁員他是屬於這個公務預算所以我們在想說他裁員的不夠多元這部分的話是不是說審計部在做查核的部分這個部分可能需要審計部來去做了解這部分的話這個審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎\n新住民新住民也算我們的再相對向是弱勢他的新住民基金其實要的也不多\n我們有兩兆快三兆的那個財源他只是要幾億我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門都給他們充分的給他們充足的資源來保障這些弱勢的我很肯定審計長您的回答\n我非常肯定,尤其是連續兩年都已經有這個短促的這個現象所以說我在希望說行政院這一部分也聽到審計長的這個回應就是非常友善的回應就是說有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加那再來我們有看到就是說雖然說我們新竹發展基金這個預算有短促的這個現象可是我們發現說它其實部分有些業務其實執行率不是那麼的好是不佳的\n例如我們剛才這報告裏面有提到說我們對於少子女化對策對策計劃裏面截至112年底那行政院其實已經投入了3688億的經費包含了這個幼兒的托育\n可是我們發現這個新住民發展基金裡面他這個辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計劃裡面的其實他的執行率的112年度其實只有64.34%所以這部分的話可能也是我們\n省紀部應該要去了解的這個部分因為新住民每一年有將近兩萬人來到台灣這個大家庭我想這個托育的需求絕對是有的可是我們發現說這部分他們的這執行率呢比我們想像中的還要低很多所以我想所以我在想說這部分省紀部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現這個問題到底這個部分為什麼是執行率是如這比我們想像中的還要低很多\n我們會再來督促列正部對這方面加強因為新住民這一個部分我們要有一個給他一個友善的環境我們會來努力是謝謝今天沈記長很快速跟這個肯定的這個支持所以我在想說新住民這尤其是新住民來到台灣如果含第二代的話其實已經超過百萬人了我想他們的這個禁慾也好福利也好\n都是我們中央政府呢必須要來重視的那我也不太我也不希望就是說因為他可能是屬於比較屬於少數的族群那中央中央對這部分會比較忽略那尤其是審計部因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關你這個新住民這些議題那當然可能他是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中的一部分並沒有特別的\n是否\n我今天真的\n呃很謝謝呃我們呃我們呃審計長今天一個友善的這個回應哦好那帶來呢我們就是在發現這個呃他們這公共托育的這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況還發現另外一個問題哦那就是說\n新住民的公共托育呢其實還有一些比較特殊的這個需求我們有很多新住民媽媽其實在語言方面的可能是會比較有問題對中文比較不熟悉他們可能需要的這個幼兒的保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的這個要求結果我們在盤點\n我們全國22個縣市呢其實讓我們發現說新住民的公共托育這部分不是那麼的友善這可能也是我們政府需要去來加油督促的這個部分了比如說六都六都市新住民人口數最多的地方那舉個例子來講像新北市新北市是全國新住民人數最多的那它可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2819人\n那當然新住民的小孩也可以送到這個一般的保姆那邊去做托育可是我剛剛有提到就是說新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求他們可能要的就是這個這個保姆也許他必須要有新住民的這個背景合格的這個保姆那比如說我們在新北市來講好了2819位可收托一般幼兒之保姆可是呢可收托新住民幼兒的保姆呢只有4位\n只有四位那台北市也是一樣2317可收託一般幼兒的保姆人數可是呢我們卻只有三位可收託新住民幼兒制保姆所以比例是非常非常的低所以我們說我們在這個托育這部分呢政府呢\n投入了很多的這個經費可是我們在新住民幼兒保姆這個部分我們發現是不太友善的那這個友善這個不友善來自於哪裡可能我們並沒有很積極的去培育新住民去考取合格的保姆執照等等所以衍生出像列都列都可收託新住民幼兒之保姆人數只有個位數那甚至有些縣市像新竹縣苗栗縣南投縣\n雲林、嘉義、台東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江巷、金門縣是掛零的?如果新住民的媽媽想要找一個合格的保姆懂得自己國家的語言的這些縣市一個都沒有\n一個都沒有所以我想說在托育的環境方面在新住民來講比較不友善所以這部分的話我們也希望審計部這邊來重視跟相關的單位來做一個討論這部分我們怎麼來做提升審計長\n從委員在這些執行的資料裡面看我們好像忽略了新住民的這一塊的一個照顧所以剛剛我有講道歉加強實際上我必須要說如果說完全的忽略說實在良心上我也不能這麼說其實我們有很多對有益於新住民的政策可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了像這托育的部分就是\n所以剛剛委員講我們把那個新住民出行把它加大再來就把這些像這種的因為你構線是不是構線是都零星就統一由這些內政部的這些這個單位主責單位來統一把它來做我們是希望幫忙\n把這個委員發現的這些問題我們一塊一塊把它補上就是說有忽略到的地方的一部分把它補上我們會來請內政部相關單位對這個方面加強\nOK很謝謝呃沈機長那另外還有一個還有時間我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的教育部在109年12月7號呢我們訂定發布了新住民就讀大學辦法主要是要讓我們新住民的有更\n有善多元的這個升學的這個管道其實利益是非常良善的可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有三年了這個整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹這部分可能我之後還是得要跟這個教育部來做一個探討呃沈區長您可以看一下我們這個新住民就讀大學辦法連續兩年的錄取人數是多低呢我們先看111學年度\n111學年度的我們先挑一下學士四年制日間學士班全國所有的大專院校所開出來的招生名額有1900人結果報名的有多少人呢25人入取多少人呢6人註冊人數有3人\n那四年制的進修學士班招生人數招生名額是346人報名人數兩個錄取人數是一個那不管那再來還有碩士班博士班是更不用說了那個成績真的那個招生的人數甚至還掛零那112年呢更慘了112年學士班四年制日間學士班\n招生人數增加到1910人﹐可是報名人數只有3人﹐入取人數3人﹐註冊3人﹐好像諸如此類的﹐像﹐你說政府有沒有做﹐有啊﹐都有做﹐有訂立了這些的這個政策﹐可是執行率真的是非常非常的差﹐到底問題出在哪裡呢﹐其實我們有發現\n我們有發現說有啊你問教育部有啊我們都有公告在大學大學的這個這個網站啊公告全部都有啊可是問題是新住民就不知道說有哪些學校他根本不知道你台灣有哪些學校就算他想要升學想要去進修他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系所以表示說這些資訊的管道出了問題了\n就是教育部他擬定的這些辦法大學各大專院校確確實實有去做了可是這些資訊如何下放到這個基層的新住民好像這個中間的管道就斷掉了\n如果本席沒有在這裡提的話搞不好我們省級長還不瞭解目前這種狀況謝謝委員提出這個問題這個租姓不對稱或者是造成這個整個族型落差我的想法也是和委員一樣應該就直接看看哪些新知名的小孩已經要就讀大學了就直接告訴他讓他得到第一手的租姓省級長你誤會了\n我講的是新住民不是新住民新住民是新住民新住民其實台灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或是升學的這個管道所以我們是有比照橋外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學而且是免於考試\n好就是不用學測的情況之下他可以去報報考可是問題是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道並不知道有這些就學的資訊覺得非常的可惜不管你所有的大學大專院校開了多少的這個科系\n新住民就是不知道\n幾乎是百分之百告訴我說我們不知道我們現在的問題就是說中央做上面做上面中央做中央的可是基層完全感受不到也接受不到這個訊息這才是問題所在\n這才是問題所在所以本期如果說新住民為什麼我說族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到可能我們都是一些比較大的議題一些民生的議題可是我們發現說新住民的議題也很重要啊來到台灣其實很希望在台灣落地生根適應台灣的這個生活那包含能夠在這裡順利就學就業可是不管上面做了多少\n可是很多新住民都無感無感來自於哪裡不知道這個資訊是從哪裡來的他們也不知道說原來我可以到大學去念書原來某某大學有這個我所向我想要去念的科系可是這些資訊怎麼要下放給新住民我想這可能就是我們審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討的是咧\n這一個部分委員是這樣我們應該解決這個不是太難的問題教育部的夠大誰可以把它收集好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.770 --> 00:06.132\n謝謝主席,有請沈記長再請陳沈記長備詢盧委員好\n\n00:17.218 --> 00:39.537\n審計長好辛苦了就如我們今天的審計報告所提到我們審計部的主要的這個職責呢就是督促政府呢進行良善治理實現這個國家永續的這個發展所以審計部呢對一些民生等重大議題呢都納入了主要的查核的這個要點可是本期發現就是說有關這個族群的議題審計\n\n00:41.117 --> 00:55.501\n這裏是比較少在碰觸的比如說有關這個新住民的這個議題那本期我發現就是說有關於新住民發展基金移民署裏面有個新住民發展基金已經連續兩年連續兩年出現這個短促的這個狀況而且是連續兩年都必須以用以前的資金餘額來做這個支應\n\n01:04.464 --> 01:20.931\n這部分可能這審計部應該要特別來做留意的那當然本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現這個短處的這現象比如說像基金的使用是更趨這個多元化比如說新住民跟新住民二代的這個賠利也好或是特殊境遇的這個補助甚至新住民\n\n01:22.131 --> 01:35.076\n呃子女的這個獎助學金等等那對於這個新竹民發展基金的這個預算規模是不是要來增加或是財源要如何來增加我想這審計部可能跟相關單位可能要有一個一個一個建議\n\n01:37.017 --> 02:02.578\n那譬如說像我們的長照基金像我們報告裡面有提到說是來自於這個房地合一稅或是這宜貞稅或是煙捐等等可是煙稅等等可是新住民發展的發展基金的裁員他是屬於這個公務預算所以我們在想說他裁員的不夠多元這部分的話是不是說審計部在做查核的部分這個部分可能需要審計部來去做了解這部分的話這個審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎\n\n02:05.697 --> 02:09.720\n新住民新住民也算我們的再相對向是弱勢他的新住民基金其實要的也不多\n\n02:22.549 --> 02:44.049\n我們有兩兆快三兆的那個財源他只是要幾億我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門都給他們充分的給他們充足的資源來保障這些弱勢的我很肯定審計長您的回答\n\n02:46.011 --> 03:12.472\n我非常肯定,尤其是連續兩年都已經有這個短促的這個現象所以說我在希望說行政院這一部分也聽到審計長的這個回應就是非常友善的回應就是說有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加那再來我們有看到就是說雖然說我們新竹發展基金這個預算有短促的這個現象可是我們發現說它其實部分有些業務其實執行率不是那麼的好是不佳的\n\n03:13.012 --> 03:25.265\n例如我們剛才這報告裏面有提到說我們對於少子女化對策對策計劃裏面截至112年底那行政院其實已經投入了3688億的經費包含了這個幼兒的托育\n\n03:29.309 --> 03:46.974\n可是我們發現這個新住民發展基金裡面他這個辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計劃裡面的其實他的執行率的112年度其實只有64.34%所以這部分的話可能也是我們\n\n03:47.774 --> 04:16.937\n省紀部應該要去了解的這個部分因為新住民每一年有將近兩萬人來到台灣這個大家庭我想這個托育的需求絕對是有的可是我們發現說這部分他們的這執行率呢比我們想像中的還要低很多所以我想所以我在想說這部分省紀部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現這個問題到底這個部分為什麼是執行率是如這比我們想像中的還要低很多\n\n04:17.657 --> 04:45.494\n我們會再來督促列正部對這方面加強因為新住民這一個部分我們要有一個給他一個友善的環境我們會來努力是謝謝今天沈記長很快速跟這個肯定的這個支持所以我在想說新住民這尤其是新住民來到台灣如果含第二代的話其實已經超過百萬人了我想他們的這個禁慾也好福利也好\n\n04:45.814 --> 05:11.031\n都是我們中央政府呢必須要來重視的那我也不太我也不希望就是說因為他可能是屬於比較屬於少數的族群那中央中央對這部分會比較忽略那尤其是審計部因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關你這個新住民這些議題那當然可能他是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中的一部分並沒有特別的\n\n05:11.691 --> 05:11.831\n是否\n\n05:34.957 --> 05:35.257\n我今天真的\n\n05:52.359 --> 06:05.998\n呃很謝謝呃我們呃我們呃審計長今天一個友善的這個回應哦好那帶來呢我們就是在發現這個呃他們這公共托育的這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況還發現另外一個問題哦那就是說\n\n06:09.523 --> 06:28.424\n新住民的公共托育呢其實還有一些比較特殊的這個需求我們有很多新住民媽媽其實在語言方面的可能是會比較有問題對中文比較不熟悉他們可能需要的這個幼兒的保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的這個要求結果我們在盤點\n\n06:29.485 --> 06:56.135\n我們全國22個縣市呢其實讓我們發現說新住民的公共托育這部分不是那麼的友善這可能也是我們政府需要去來加油督促的這個部分了比如說六都六都市新住民人口數最多的地方那舉個例子來講像新北市新北市是全國新住民人數最多的那它可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2819人\n\n06:59.036 --> 07:28.220\n那當然新住民的小孩也可以送到這個一般的保姆那邊去做托育可是我剛剛有提到就是說新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求他們可能要的就是這個這個保姆也許他必須要有新住民的這個背景合格的這個保姆那比如說我們在新北市來講好了2819位可收托一般幼兒之保姆可是呢可收托新住民幼兒的保姆呢只有4位\n\n07:29.465 --> 07:47.515\n只有四位那台北市也是一樣2317可收託一般幼兒的保姆人數可是呢我們卻只有三位可收託新住民幼兒制保姆所以比例是非常非常的低所以我們說我們在這個托育這部分呢政府呢\n\n07:48.175 --> 08:16.608\n投入了很多的這個經費可是我們在新住民幼兒保姆這個部分我們發現是不太友善的那這個友善這個不友善來自於哪裡可能我們並沒有很積極的去培育新住民去考取合格的保姆執照等等所以衍生出像列都列都可收託新住民幼兒之保姆人數只有個位數那甚至有些縣市像新竹縣苗栗縣南投縣\n\n08:17.928 --> 08:33.243\n雲林、嘉義、台東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江巷、金門縣是掛零的?如果新住民的媽媽想要找一個合格的保姆懂得自己國家的語言的這些縣市一個都沒有\n\n08:33.883 --> 08:47.780\n一個都沒有所以我想說在托育的環境方面在新住民來講比較不友善所以這部分的話我們也希望審計部這邊來重視跟相關的單位來做一個討論這部分我們怎麼來做提升審計長\n\n08:50.588 --> 09:17.685\n從委員在這些執行的資料裡面看我們好像忽略了新住民的這一塊的一個照顧所以剛剛我有講道歉加強實際上我必須要說如果說完全的忽略說實在良心上我也不能這麼說其實我們有很多對有益於新住民的政策可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了像這托育的部分就是\n\n09:18.700 --> 09:41.860\n所以剛剛委員講我們把那個新住民出行把它加大再來就把這些像這種的因為你構線是不是構線是都零星就統一由這些內政部的這些這個單位主責單位來統一把它來做我們是希望幫忙\n\n09:43.602 --> 09:54.877\n把這個委員發現的這些問題我們一塊一塊把它補上就是說有忽略到的地方的一部分把它補上我們會來請內政部相關單位對這個方面加強\n\n09:59.912 --> 10:15.649\nOK很謝謝呃沈機長那另外還有一個還有時間我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的教育部在109年12月7號呢我們訂定發布了新住民就讀大學辦法主要是要讓我們新住民的有更\n\n10:16.269 --> 10:44.049\n有善多元的這個升學的這個管道其實利益是非常良善的可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有三年了這個整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹這部分可能我之後還是得要跟這個教育部來做一個探討呃沈區長您可以看一下我們這個新住民就讀大學辦法連續兩年的錄取人數是多低呢我們先看111學年度\n\n10:45.770 --> 11:04.076\n111學年度的我們先挑一下學士四年制日間學士班全國所有的大專院校所開出來的招生名額有1900人結果報名的有多少人呢25人入取多少人呢6人註冊人數有3人\n\n11:07.301 --> 11:30.049\n那四年制的進修學士班招生人數招生名額是346人報名人數兩個錄取人數是一個那不管那再來還有碩士班博士班是更不用說了那個成績真的那個招生的人數甚至還掛零那112年呢更慘了112年學士班四年制日間學士班\n\n11:30.709 --> 11:53.571\n招生人數增加到1910人﹐可是報名人數只有3人﹐入取人數3人﹐註冊3人﹐好像諸如此類的﹐像﹐你說政府有沒有做﹐有啊﹐都有做﹐有訂立了這些的這個政策﹐可是執行率真的是非常非常的差﹐到底問題出在哪裡呢﹐其實我們有發現\n\n11:56.138 --> 12:19.930\n我們有發現說有啊你問教育部有啊我們都有公告在大學大學的這個這個網站啊公告全部都有啊可是問題是新住民就不知道說有哪些學校他根本不知道你台灣有哪些學校就算他想要升學想要去進修他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系所以表示說這些資訊的管道出了問題了\n\n12:22.090 --> 12:36.804\n就是教育部他擬定的這些辦法大學各大專院校確確實實有去做了可是這些資訊如何下放到這個基層的新住民好像這個中間的管道就斷掉了\n\n12:38.188 --> 13:05.756\n如果本席沒有在這裡提的話搞不好我們省級長還不瞭解目前這種狀況謝謝委員提出這個問題這個租姓不對稱或者是造成這個整個族型落差我的想法也是和委員一樣應該就直接看看哪些新知名的小孩已經要就讀大學了就直接告訴他讓他得到第一手的租姓省級長你誤會了\n\n13:06.636 --> 13:29.165\n我講的是新住民不是新住民新住民是新住民新住民其實台灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或是升學的這個管道所以我們是有比照橋外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學而且是免於考試\n\n13:30.245 --> 13:49.387\n好就是不用學測的情況之下他可以去報報考可是問題是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道並不知道有這些就學的資訊覺得非常的可惜不管你所有的大學大專院校開了多少的這個科系\n\n13:50.228 --> 13:51.430\n新住民就是不知道\n\n14:06.131 --> 14:18.241\n幾乎是百分之百告訴我說我們不知道我們現在的問題就是說中央做上面做上面中央做中央的可是基層完全感受不到也接受不到這個訊息這才是問題所在\n\n14:22.544 --> 14:46.883\n這才是問題所在所以本期如果說新住民為什麼我說族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到可能我們都是一些比較大的議題一些民生的議題可是我們發現說新住民的議題也很重要啊來到台灣其實很希望在台灣落地生根適應台灣的這個生活那包含能夠在這裡順利就學就業可是不管上面做了多少\n\n14:47.623 --> 15:10.629\n可是很多新住民都無感無感來自於哪裡不知道這個資訊是從哪裡來的他們也不知道說原來我可以到大學去念書原來某某大學有這個我所向我想要去念的科系可是這些資訊怎麼要下放給新住民我想這可能就是我們審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討的是咧\n\n15:11.943 --> 15:20.971\n這一個部分委員是這樣我們應該解決這個不是太難的問題教育部的夠大誰可以把它收集好\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.77,"end":6.132,"text":"謝謝主席,有請沈記長再請陳沈記長備詢盧委員好"},{"start":17.218,"end":39.537,"text":"審計長好辛苦了就如我們今天的審計報告所提到我們審計部的主要的這個職責呢就是督促政府呢進行良善治理實現這個國家永續的這個發展所以審計部呢對一些民生等重大議題呢都納入了主要的查核的這個要點可是本期發現就是說有關這個族群的議題審計"},{"start":41.117,"end":55.501,"text":"這裏是比較少在碰觸的比如說有關這個新住民的這個議題那本期我發現就是說有關於新住民發展基金移民署裏面有個新住民發展基金已經連續兩年連續兩年出現這個短促的這個狀況而且是連續兩年都必須以用以前的資金餘額來做這個支應"},{"start":64.464,"end":80.931,"text":"這部分可能這審計部應該要特別來做留意的那當然本席很能夠理解為什麼會出現這個短處的這現象比如說像基金的使用是更趨這個多元化比如說新住民跟新住民二代的這個賠利也好或是特殊境遇的這個補助甚至新住民"},{"start":82.131,"end":95.076,"text":"呃子女的這個獎助學金等等那對於這個新竹民發展基金的這個預算規模是不是要來增加或是財源要如何來增加我想這審計部可能跟相關單位可能要有一個一個一個建議"},{"start":97.017,"end":122.578,"text":"那譬如說像我們的長照基金像我們報告裡面有提到說是來自於這個房地合一稅或是這宜貞稅或是煙捐等等可是煙稅等等可是新住民發展的發展基金的裁員他是屬於這個公務預算所以我們在想說他裁員的不夠多元這部分的話是不是說審計部在做查核的部分這個部分可能需要審計部來去做了解這部分的話這個審計長這邊有沒有怎麼樣的建議嗎"},{"start":125.697,"end":129.72,"text":"新住民新住民也算我們的再相對向是弱勢他的新住民基金其實要的也不多"},{"start":142.549,"end":164.049,"text":"我們有兩兆快三兆的那個財源他只是要幾億我的立場是希望行政院或者相關編列預算的部門都給他們充分的給他們充足的資源來保障這些弱勢的我很肯定審計長您的回答"},{"start":166.011,"end":192.472,"text":"我非常肯定,尤其是連續兩年都已經有這個短促的這個現象所以說我在希望說行政院這一部分也聽到審計長的這個回應就是非常友善的回應就是說有關於這個預算規模的部分可以來增加那再來我們有看到就是說雖然說我們新竹發展基金這個預算有短促的這個現象可是我們發現說它其實部分有些業務其實執行率不是那麼的好是不佳的"},{"start":193.012,"end":205.265,"text":"例如我們剛才這報告裏面有提到說我們對於少子女化對策對策計劃裏面截至112年底那行政院其實已經投入了3688億的經費包含了這個幼兒的托育"},{"start":209.309,"end":226.974,"text":"可是我們發現這個新住民發展基金裡面他這個辦理新住民家庭成長及子女托育多元文化計劃裡面的其實他的執行率的112年度其實只有64.34%所以這部分的話可能也是我們"},{"start":227.774,"end":256.937,"text":"省紀部應該要去了解的這個部分因為新住民每一年有將近兩萬人來到台灣這個大家庭我想這個托育的需求絕對是有的可是我們發現說這部分他們的這執行率呢比我們想像中的還要低很多所以我想所以我在想說這部分省紀部是不是也應該要在查核的時候發現這個問題到底這個部分為什麼是執行率是如這比我們想像中的還要低很多"},{"start":257.657,"end":285.494,"text":"我們會再來督促列正部對這方面加強因為新住民這一個部分我們要有一個給他一個友善的環境我們會來努力是謝謝今天沈記長很快速跟這個肯定的這個支持所以我在想說新住民這尤其是新住民來到台灣如果含第二代的話其實已經超過百萬人了我想他們的這個禁慾也好福利也好"},{"start":285.814,"end":311.031,"text":"都是我們中央政府呢必須要來重視的那我也不太我也不希望就是說因為他可能是屬於比較屬於少數的族群那中央中央對這部分會比較忽略那尤其是審計部因為我從你們的報告裡面比較少看到有關你這個新住民這些議題那當然可能他是屬於所有民生議題裡面的其中的一部分並沒有特別的"},{"start":311.691,"end":311.831,"text":"是否"},{"start":334.957,"end":335.257,"text":"我今天真的"},{"start":352.359,"end":365.998,"text":"呃很謝謝呃我們呃我們呃審計長今天一個友善的這個回應哦好那帶來呢我們就是在發現這個呃他們這公共托育的這部分的執行率不是很佳的情況還發現另外一個問題哦那就是說"},{"start":369.523,"end":388.424,"text":"新住民的公共托育呢其實還有一些比較特殊的這個需求我們有很多新住民媽媽其實在語言方面的可能是會比較有問題對中文比較不熟悉他們可能需要的這個幼兒的保母可能在語言方面要有些特殊的這個要求結果我們在盤點"},{"start":389.485,"end":416.135,"text":"我們全國22個縣市呢其實讓我們發現說新住民的公共托育這部分不是那麼的友善這可能也是我們政府需要去來加油督促的這個部分了比如說六都六都市新住民人口數最多的地方那舉個例子來講像新北市新北市是全國新住民人數最多的那它可收托一般幼兒的保母人數有2819人"},{"start":419.036,"end":448.22,"text":"那當然新住民的小孩也可以送到這個一般的保姆那邊去做托育可是我剛剛有提到就是說新住民媽媽可能在語言方面有所要求他們可能要的就是這個這個保姆也許他必須要有新住民的這個背景合格的這個保姆那比如說我們在新北市來講好了2819位可收托一般幼兒之保姆可是呢可收托新住民幼兒的保姆呢只有4位"},{"start":449.465,"end":467.515,"text":"只有四位那台北市也是一樣2317可收託一般幼兒的保姆人數可是呢我們卻只有三位可收託新住民幼兒制保姆所以比例是非常非常的低所以我們說我們在這個托育這部分呢政府呢"},{"start":468.175,"end":496.608,"text":"投入了很多的這個經費可是我們在新住民幼兒保姆這個部分我們發現是不太友善的那這個友善這個不友善來自於哪裡可能我們並沒有很積極的去培育新住民去考取合格的保姆執照等等所以衍生出像列都列都可收託新住民幼兒之保姆人數只有個位數那甚至有些縣市像新竹縣苗栗縣南投縣"},{"start":497.928,"end":513.243,"text":"雲林、嘉義、台東、花蓮、澎湖、基隆市、嘉義市、連江巷、金門縣是掛零的?如果新住民的媽媽想要找一個合格的保姆懂得自己國家的語言的這些縣市一個都沒有"},{"start":513.883,"end":527.78,"text":"一個都沒有所以我想說在托育的環境方面在新住民來講比較不友善所以這部分的話我們也希望審計部這邊來重視跟相關的單位來做一個討論這部分我們怎麼來做提升審計長"},{"start":530.588,"end":557.685,"text":"從委員在這些執行的資料裡面看我們好像忽略了新住民的這一塊的一個照顧所以剛剛我有講道歉加強實際上我必須要說如果說完全的忽略說實在良心上我也不能這麼說其實我們有很多對有益於新住民的政策可是某些部分確確實實是忽略了像這托育的部分就是"},{"start":558.7,"end":581.86,"text":"所以剛剛委員講我們把那個新住民出行把它加大再來就把這些像這種的因為你構線是不是構線是都零星就統一由這些內政部的這些這個單位主責單位來統一把它來做我們是希望幫忙"},{"start":583.602,"end":594.877,"text":"把這個委員發現的這些問題我們一塊一塊把它補上就是說有忽略到的地方的一部分把它補上我們會來請內政部相關單位對這個方面加強"},{"start":599.912,"end":615.649,"text":"OK很謝謝呃沈機長那另外還有一個還有時間我還要再提另外一個是跟教育有關的教育部在109年12月7號呢我們訂定發布了新住民就讀大學辦法主要是要讓我們新住民的有更"},{"start":616.269,"end":644.049,"text":"有善多元的這個升學的這個管道其實利益是非常良善的可是這個辦法施行到現在已經有三年了這個整個狀況可以說是慘不忍睹這部分可能我之後還是得要跟這個教育部來做一個探討呃沈區長您可以看一下我們這個新住民就讀大學辦法連續兩年的錄取人數是多低呢我們先看111學年度"},{"start":645.77,"end":664.076,"text":"111學年度的我們先挑一下學士四年制日間學士班全國所有的大專院校所開出來的招生名額有1900人結果報名的有多少人呢25人入取多少人呢6人註冊人數有3人"},{"start":667.301,"end":690.049,"text":"那四年制的進修學士班招生人數招生名額是346人報名人數兩個錄取人數是一個那不管那再來還有碩士班博士班是更不用說了那個成績真的那個招生的人數甚至還掛零那112年呢更慘了112年學士班四年制日間學士班"},{"start":690.709,"end":713.571,"text":"招生人數增加到1910人﹐可是報名人數只有3人﹐入取人數3人﹐註冊3人﹐好像諸如此類的﹐像﹐你說政府有沒有做﹐有啊﹐都有做﹐有訂立了這些的這個政策﹐可是執行率真的是非常非常的差﹐到底問題出在哪裡呢﹐其實我們有發現"},{"start":716.138,"end":739.93,"text":"我們有發現說有啊你問教育部有啊我們都有公告在大學大學的這個這個網站啊公告全部都有啊可是問題是新住民就不知道說有哪些學校他根本不知道你台灣有哪些學校就算他想要升學想要去進修他也不知道哪些學校有哪些科系所以表示說這些資訊的管道出了問題了"},{"start":742.09,"end":756.804,"text":"就是教育部他擬定的這些辦法大學各大專院校確確實實有去做了可是這些資訊如何下放到這個基層的新住民好像這個中間的管道就斷掉了"},{"start":758.188,"end":785.756,"text":"如果本席沒有在這裡提的話搞不好我們省級長還不瞭解目前這種狀況謝謝委員提出這個問題這個租姓不對稱或者是造成這個整個族型落差我的想法也是和委員一樣應該就直接看看哪些新知名的小孩已經要就讀大學了就直接告訴他讓他得到第一手的租姓省級長你誤會了"},{"start":786.636,"end":809.165,"text":"我講的是新住民不是新住民新住民是新住民新住民其實台灣的政府很有心想要提升新住民的教育程度或是升學的這個管道所以我們是有比照橋外生外掛2%的方式讓新住民去就學而且是免於考試"},{"start":810.245,"end":829.387,"text":"好就是不用學測的情況之下他可以去報報考可是問題是問題是新住民並不知道有這些就學的管道並不知道有這些就學的資訊覺得非常的可惜不管你所有的大學大專院校開了多少的這個科系"},{"start":830.228,"end":831.43,"text":"新住民就是不知道"},{"start":846.131,"end":858.241,"text":"幾乎是百分之百告訴我說我們不知道我們現在的問題就是說中央做上面做上面中央做中央的可是基層完全感受不到也接受不到這個訊息這才是問題所在"},{"start":862.544,"end":886.883,"text":"這才是問題所在所以本期如果說新住民為什麼我說族群的問題審計部可能比較少去碰觸到可能我們都是一些比較大的議題一些民生的議題可是我們發現說新住民的議題也很重要啊來到台灣其實很希望在台灣落地生根適應台灣的這個生活那包含能夠在這裡順利就學就業可是不管上面做了多少"},{"start":887.623,"end":910.629,"text":"可是很多新住民都無感無感來自於哪裡不知道這個資訊是從哪裡來的他們也不知道說原來我可以到大學去念書原來某某大學有這個我所向我想要去念的科系可是這些資訊怎麼要下放給新住民我想這可能就是我們審計部要跟教育部來做一個探討的是咧"},{"start":911.943,"end":920.971,"text":"這一個部分委員是這樣我們應該解決這個不是太難的問題教育部的夠大誰可以把它收集好"}]}}}}