{"id":150898,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150898","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e93816584839816e5d61f249d14ced5942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a64bb332fc1e2a212a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"10:09:03 - 10:19:14","影片長度":"00:10:11","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":611,"end_time":"2024-04-08T10:19:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T10:09:03+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":365,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時9分）謝謝主席。請一下部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["許部長銘春：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長你好。4月3號早上發生了7.2級的有感地震，當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了，勞工因為地震沒有辦法準時上班、出勤等等，雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或曠職，也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理，對不對？有發布這個新聞嘛！"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["涂委員權吉：請問一下，這個規定是不是依照「天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資給付要點」來辦理，是不是以這項要點來辦理？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：對嘛！因為這個是勞動部天然災害的要點嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，沒有錯。"],["涂委員權吉：請問這個要點的法律屬性是哪一種性質，是行政規則嗎？"],["許部長銘春：行政規則。"],["涂委員權吉：如果雇主沒有依照這個要點來辦理，還是算勞工遲到或者曠工，有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們？"],["許部長銘春：有，就看他違反的情況，會對應到條文。"],["涂委員權吉：如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定，還是沒有給員工全勤或者那天沒有給薪水，這樣子有什麼處置？"],["許部長銘春：這個就是違反勞基法第二十二條。"],["涂委員權吉：違反勞基法第二十二條，所以如果像4月3日那一天，勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者曠工，那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：是嘛！"],["許部長銘春：全勤獎金不影響，但是薪資的部分，因為這個是天災，天災是不可抗力的，不可抗力是他們協商……"],["涂委員權吉：薪資的部分，那天是會發還是不發？"],["許部長銘春：他們協商。"],["涂委員權吉：那遲到的部分呢？"],["許部長銘春：不能算遲到啊！那個不能算遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：不能算遲到，所以全勤獎金是一定有的，不能因為那一天……"],["許部長銘春：對，他算全勤。"],["涂委員權吉：因為那一天地震的關係遲到，不能扣他的全勤獎金。"],["許部長銘春：那一天不能算他遲到，所以那一天不能扣他。"],["涂委員權吉：所以薪水的部分是要協商？"],["許部長銘春：薪水的部分是協商，因為這個是不可抗力的，一般就像颱風的時候一樣，颱風也是會停止上班、上課……"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們依勞基法第二十二條來辦理，遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金，但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["涂委員權吉：因為我們現在也碰到很多問題，針對雇主跟勞工這部分，我們也沒有一個明確，所以今天才要請問一下部長，因為……"],["許部長銘春：其實委員，沒關係，如果委員您服務的民眾有問題，也可以打1955，我們都會有專員……"],["涂委員權吉：對，針對這部分，所以我們看這個要點的處理，就是也不能說他遲到，也不能扣他的全勤獎金，可是我看勞動部又有一個行政函釋第4560號函，裡面又說，遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商，明定團體協約或工作規則中。所以我們現在有點不瞭解，到底是以勞基法來處理，還是以行政函釋第4560號函來處理，還是依這個要點來處理？我覺得有點混淆不清。"],["許部長銘春：委員，這個函釋的遲到是指真正的遲到，而那一天地震不能算遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我們現在就很明確，類似那一天這種天災，假設颱風或地震等等……"],["許部長銘春：簡單講，就沒有遲到的問題。"],["涂委員權吉：就沒有遲到的問題，所以全勤獎金一定要發，但是上班當天給不給付薪水，則是由勞資協商來辦理，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對，這個函釋是指譬如說，他晚個10分鐘、20分鐘，你要不要扣他全勤獎金，就是看情況啦！"],["涂委員權吉：好，所以我們現在確定……"],["許部長銘春：但是剛剛地震的情況不一樣，那個不能視為遲到。"],["涂委員權吉：因為地震，所以當天不能以遲到來論，全勤獎金要照發，可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商，對嘛？所以變成如果雇主沒有依據這個來辦理，我們有勞基法第二十二條來辦理，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["涂委員權吉：好，至少讓雇主跟勞工有一個明確的依據。","還有，有關職業安全衛生法第十八條的退避權，請問部長，這個退避權的定義、意思是怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：就是你工作的場所有危險的時候，勞工就可以選擇不工作。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我請問一下，那天發生地震，我們覺得上班的途中也有這個狀況、有安全疑慮，這算不算在退避權之內？"],["許部長銘春：因為還沒有到達工作場所，所以不算。"],["涂委員權吉：我是建議啦！因為是上班途中，其實他上班途中，他已經要去上班了，但是如果現在發生類似地震這種重大危害的問題，對於上班的通勤時間，我建議勞動部可以考慮一下，應該也是要納入，因為他現在要去公司上班，這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時？"],["許部長銘春：上班的通勤應該是可以比照天災，就像剛剛颱風那個情況。"],["涂委員權吉：所以是可以嘛？"],["許部長銘春：不是，這兩個是不一樣的概念。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊，就是我現在要去上班，我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了。"],["許部長銘春：就是當地、你要到達的地方已經宣布停止上班上課了，那你就可以不用過去了。"],["涂委員權吉：所以就納入天災比照辦理？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["涂委員權吉：好。接著我請問一下，我們今天有討論育嬰的部分，現在針對育兒勞工的需求，我知道勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼，但是感覺這個催生措施的效果並不是很好，是不是有機會調整育兒留職停薪津貼的部分？因為現在是0到3歲，但現在國家基本、中央的政策是0到6歲國家養，所以我們建議把育嬰留職停薪的津貼改成育兒留職停薪的津貼，也就是0到6歲，針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助，等於放寬到滿6歲。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分，現在其實很多委員有在倡議，像涂委員您是主張6歲，也有人主張8歲，有人是主張到學齡前，這個部分我覺得可以來討論，只是因為會牽涉到財源……"],["涂委員權吉：沒有，這個我先說明一下，它的補助是一樣的，只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲，把育嬰留職停薪的津貼放寬到育兒留職停薪的津貼。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，如果這樣……"],["涂委員權吉：補助一樣啦！只是從3歲放寬到6歲。"],["許部長銘春：到6歲其實會更多人啦！"],["涂委員權吉：會更多人，但是我覺得我們希望……"],["許部長銘春：所以財源上是必須考量，因為……"],["涂委員權吉：因為勞動部既然要催生，雖然你們一直加碼，但是催生的效果並不是很好，是不是針對這部分，以我們補助不增加的方式來做？"],["許部長銘春：這個少子化也是要跨部會一起來努力，勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境……"],["涂委員權吉：好，這部分勞動部再來參考一下。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["涂委員權吉：還有針對申請失業給付的部分，目前因傷病診療持有證明者，可以不用上就業諮詢或職業訓練，就可以申請失業給付，這一部分是不是可以放寬到有懷孕、分娩的申請人？就是原本他就有申請，可是因為現在懷孕或分娩，像有些醫生會診療說，他不適合下床、不適合外出等等，是不是也可以開醫生的診療證明，然後放寬，不用去上就業諮詢跟職業訓練？"],["許部長銘春：好像法令有規定，如果有醫院的證明，就是因傷病診療持有證明而無法參加者，就可以。"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩也在這個因傷病診療的範圍之內？"],["許部長銘春：對，要有醫師證明啦！"],["涂委員權吉：因為這個因傷病診療，我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他什麼工作傷害等等，而懷孕、分娩，像有些懷孕的婦女，醫生會診療說他要安胎，不適合下床、外出……"],["許部長銘春：對，因為有些人的體質是要整個臥床，甚至要臥床到生產，像這種情況，如果有醫生證明的話……"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩，只要開得出醫生證明，一樣可以請領失業給付，不用上就業諮詢跟職業訓練，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，實務上都會同意他們。"],["涂委員權吉：所以懷孕、分娩在申請給付這個申請人之內，一樣持這個因傷病診療證明，就可以不用去上這些課程？"],["許部長銘春：是，也在這個適用範圍。"],["涂委員權吉：好，謝謝，感謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：謝謝涂權吉委員。","在這邊作以下宣告：等一下在王正旭委員質詢結束，休息10分鐘。","現在請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,060 --> 00:00:12,964\n4月3日早上發生了7.2級的有感地震當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工、因為地震沒有辦法準時\n\n2\n00:00:33,903 --> 00:01:00,710\n上班出勤等等我們雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理嘛對不對有發布這個新聞嗎有有那我請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理是不是以這一項要點來辦理是\n\n3\n00:01:03,964 --> 00:01:31,823\n因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們\n\n4\n00:01:32,924 --> 00:01:51,291\n有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以\n\n5\n00:01:54,432 --> 00:02:17,943\n所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商\n\n6\n00:02:19,164 --> 00:02:37,006\n他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他\n\n7\n00:02:37,366 --> 00:02:57,981\n那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?\n\n8\n00:02:59,182 --> 00:03:19,256\n所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是\n\n9\n00:03:20,037 --> 00:03:38,089\n也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作\n\n10\n00:03:38,909 --> 00:03:54,480\n工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到\n\n11\n00:03:55,563 --> 00:04:23,826\n所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦\n\n12\n00:04:24,386 --> 00:04:37,813\n好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商\n\n13\n00:04:40,755 --> 00:04:58,647\n對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的\n\n14\n00:05:02,157 --> 00:05:26,017\n你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所\n\n15\n00:05:29,815 --> 00:05:54,834\n所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時\n\n16\n00:05:55,695 --> 00:06:20,493\n上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用\n\n17\n00:06:21,934 --> 00:06:47,710\n所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停\n\n18\n00:06:48,590 --> 00:07:13,457\n提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲\n\n19\n00:07:16,377 --> 00:07:27,168\n拜託委員這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源\n\n20\n00:07:34,656 --> 00:07:51,833\n沒有沒有這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲\n\n21\n00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:15,969\n會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分\n\n22\n00:08:28,995 --> 00:08:57,927\n我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以\n\n23\n00:08:59,767 --> 00:09:17,974\n開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊\n\n24\n00:09:21,235 --> 00:09:48,123\n對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個\n\n25\n00:09:48,903 --> 00:09:48,923\n委員．\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9060\t12964\t4月3日早上發生了7.2級的有感地震當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工、因為地震沒有辦法準時\n33903\t60710\t上班出勤等等我們雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理嘛對不對有發布這個新聞嗎有有那我請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理是不是以這一項要點來辦理是\n63964\t91823\t因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們\n92924\t111291\t有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以\n114432\t137943\t所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商\n139164\t157006\t他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他\n157366\t177981\t那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?\n179182\t199256\t所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是\n200037\t218089\t也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作\n218909\t234480\t工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到\n235563\t263826\t所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦\n264386\t277813\t好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商\n280755\t298647\t對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的\n302157\t326017\t你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所\n329815\t354834\t所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時\n355695\t380493\t上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是 這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊 就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對 那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用\n381934\t407710\t所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停\n408590\t433457\t提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲\n436377\t447168\t拜託委員 這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源\n454656\t471833\t沒有沒有 這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲\n479400\t495969\t會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分\n508995\t537927\t我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以\n539767\t557974\t開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊\n561235\t588123\t對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個\n588903\t588923\t委員．\n","txt":"4月3日早上發生了7.2級的有感地震當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工、因為地震沒有辦法準時\n上班出勤等等我們雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理嘛對不對有發布這個新聞嗎有有那我請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理是不是以這一項要點來辦理是\n因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們\n有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以\n所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商\n他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他\n那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?\n所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是\n也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作\n工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到\n所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦\n好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商\n對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的\n你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所\n所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時\n上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是 這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊 就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對 那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用\n所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停\n提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲\n拜託委員 這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源\n沒有沒有 這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲\n會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分\n我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以\n開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊\n對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個\n委員．\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.060 --> 00:12.964\n4月3日早上發生了7.2級的有感地震當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工、因為地震沒有辦法準時\n\n00:33.903 --> 01:00.710\n上班出勤等等我們雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理嘛對不對有發布這個新聞嗎有有那我請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理是不是以這一項要點來辦理是\n\n01:03.964 --> 01:31.823\n因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們\n\n01:32.924 --> 01:51.291\n有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以\n\n01:54.432 --> 02:17.943\n所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商\n\n02:19.164 --> 02:37.006\n他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他\n\n02:37.366 --> 02:57.981\n那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?\n\n02:59.182 --> 03:19.256\n所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是\n\n03:20.037 --> 03:38.089\n也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作\n\n03:38.909 --> 03:54.480\n工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到\n\n03:55.563 --> 04:23.826\n所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦\n\n04:24.386 --> 04:37.813\n好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商\n\n04:40.755 --> 04:58.647\n對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的\n\n05:02.157 --> 05:26.017\n你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所\n\n05:29.815 --> 05:54.834\n所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時\n\n05:55.695 --> 06:20.493\n上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用\n\n06:21.934 --> 06:47.710\n所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停\n\n06:48.590 --> 07:13.457\n提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲\n\n07:16.377 --> 07:27.168\n拜託委員這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源\n\n07:34.656 --> 07:51.833\n沒有沒有這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲\n\n07:59.400 --> 08:15.969\n會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分\n\n08:28.995 --> 08:57.927\n我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以\n\n08:59.767 --> 09:17.974\n開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊\n\n09:21.235 --> 09:48.123\n對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個\n\n09:48.903 --> 09:48.923\n委員．\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.06,"end":12.964,"text":"4月3日早上發生了7.2級的有感地震當然勞動部在第一時間也發布了就是說僱主不能因為勞工、因為地震沒有辦法準時"},{"start":33.903,"end":60.71,"text":"上班出勤等等我們雇主不能因為這樣子而讓他們算遲到或礦值那也依照天然災害發生時的出勤相關規定辦理嘛對不對有發布這個新聞嗎有有那我請問一下那這個規定辦理是不是依照天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資的幾副要點來辦理是不是以這一項要點來辦理是"},{"start":63.964,"end":91.823,"text":"因為這個就是我們天然災害勞動部的要點嘛那我請問一下那這個要點他是屬於哪一種性質是他的法律屬性是屬於是行政規則行政規則行政規則嘛那行政規則那如果僱主沒有依照這個要點來辦理那如果還是算勞工遲到或者礦工那有沒有什麼法律依據可以規範他們"},{"start":92.924,"end":111.291,"text":"有就是看委員就看到違反的情況會對應到條文對那如果他沒有依照勞動部的規定那他還是沒有給他權勤或者那天沒有給他薪水那這樣子我們有什麼那我們這個就是違反勞基法22條違反勞基法22條所以"},{"start":114.432,"end":137.943,"text":"所以如果像我們4月3日那一天勞工因為地震的關係遲到或者礦工所以那一天一樣要給他全勤獎金跟薪水是不是這樣是是嘛那全勤獎金不能不影響但是那個薪資的部分因為這個是天災嘛那薪資的部分是不可抗力是那一天會發還是不發他們協商"},{"start":139.164,"end":157.006,"text":"他沒協商協商所以所以那我們那遲到的部分啊不能算遲到啊那個不能算遲到所以權傾獎金是一定有的不能因為那一天因為那一天地震的關係遲到不能扣他的權傾獎金不能扣他"},{"start":157.366,"end":177.981,"text":"那所以薪水的部分是要協商?薪水的部分是協商因為這個是不可抗力啦就是說一般就像我們一樣像颱風的時候颱風也是會因為那個而停止上班上課的所以我們依勞基法的第22條來辦理所以遲到的部分是要給全勤獎金但是上班的部分是勞資雙方協商是不是這樣?"},{"start":179.182,"end":199.256,"text":"所以因為我們現在也碰到很多問題顧主跟勞工針對這部分我們也沒有一個明確所以今天才要請問一下部長因為他們如果有問題如果委員的這個服務的民眾有問題也可以打1955對因為我們針對這部分所以我們看這個要點處理就是"},{"start":200.037,"end":218.089,"text":"也不能說遲到也不能扣他的全勤獎金然後可是我看我們勞動部用一個行政事函4560號他裡面又說遲到是否扣發全勤獎金由勞資協商明定團體協約或工作"},{"start":218.909,"end":234.48,"text":"工作規則中所以我們現在有點不了解到底是以勞基法來處理還是以這個行政函式560號來處理還是依這個要點來處理我覺得有點混淆不清欸這個函式的遲到是真正的遲到"},{"start":235.563,"end":263.826,"text":"所以我們現在就很明確那一天類似這種天災假設颱風、地震等等就沒有遲到的問題所以全勤獎金一定要發但是如果上班當天幾不幾付薪水是由勞資協商來辦理是不是這樣對就是說譬如說這個還是在譬如說你晚個10分鐘20分鐘你要不要扣他全錢就是說你看情況啦"},{"start":264.386,"end":277.813,"text":"好,所以我們先來一個確定的但是剛剛地震的那個情況那不一樣所以當天不能以遲到因為地震不能以遲到來論全勤獎金要照發可是當天的薪水就是勞資協商"},{"start":280.755,"end":298.647,"text":"對嗎?勞資協商所以變成我們如果僱主沒有依據這個來辦理我們有勞基法第22條來辦理對不對?好那至少讓我們僱主跟勞工有一個明確的依據那還有我請問一下我們職業安全衛生法第18條這個退避權請問一下部長這個退避權他的"},{"start":302.157,"end":326.017,"text":"你工作的場所有危險的時候勞工就可以選擇我不工作了那我請問一下那天發生地震了那我們覺得這個上班的途中也有這個狀況有安全疑慮那這算不算在退避權之內因為還沒有到達那個工作場所"},{"start":329.815,"end":354.834,"text":"所以不算那我是建議啦因為這個上班途中齁其實他上班途中他已經要去上班了但是如果現在發生了就像類似這個地震重大的危害的問題我覺得這上班的通勤時間我建議喔勞動部可以考慮一下應該也是要納入因為他現在要去公司上班這個退避權的問題是不是可以考慮來納入上班通勤時"},{"start":355.695,"end":380.493,"text":"上班的通勤這個可以像那個應該是可以像比照天災那個剛剛颱風那個情況所以是可以嗎不是 這兩個是不一樣的概念對啊 就是我現在要去上班我覺得上班的途中已經有安全疑慮了對 那個部分就是說當地你要到達的那個地方他現在已經宣布停止上班上課了嘛那你就可以不用"},{"start":381.934,"end":407.71,"text":"所以就納入這個天災比照辦理好那接著我請問一下我們今天要討論育嬰的部分那因為我們現在針對我們育兒勞工的需求嘛那我知道我們勞動部針對這一部分也一直在加碼但是感覺這個催生措施效果並不是很好是不是有這個機會把育兒留職停"},{"start":408.59,"end":433.457,"text":"提供的部分現在是0到3歲因為現在國家的基本中央的政策是0到6歲國家養那我們這邊是不是建議把這個育嬰留職停薪的津貼可不可以改成育兒留職停薪的津貼也就是0到6歲來針對這個津貼一樣可以給他補助等於放寬到滿6歲"},{"start":436.377,"end":447.168,"text":"拜託委員 這個部分我們現在其實很多委員有在倡議好像吳衛寧是主張6歲有主張8歲有的主張到學齡前這個部分我覺得可以來討論只是說因為會牽涉到財源"},{"start":454.656,"end":471.833,"text":"沒有沒有 這個我先說明一下他的補助是一樣的只是把0到3歲放寬到0到6歲從育嬰留心停薪的津貼把他放寬到育兒停薪留職的津貼補助一樣啦只是從3歲放寬到6歲"},{"start":479.4,"end":495.969,"text":"會更多人但是我覺得我們希望所以那個財源上是必須考量因為勞動部居然要催生我覺得說我們一直加碼的部分但是催生的效果並不是很好那是不是針對這部分以我們補助不增加的方式來做勞動部當然是從我們的權責可以有更優的生養環境這部分勞動部再來參考一下還有我們針對申請失業給付這一部分"},{"start":508.995,"end":537.927,"text":"我們因病因傷病診療持有證明者可以不用去上就業諮詢及職業訓練就可以申請失業給付那我們這一部分是不是可以放寬到像我們有懷孕分娩的申請人就是原本他就有申請可是因為現在懷孕或分娩像有些醫生會診療說他不適合下床啊不適合外出等等是不是也可以"},{"start":539.767,"end":557.974,"text":"開這個醫生的診療證明然後放寬不用去上這個就業諮詢跟職業訓練好像法令有規定喔如果有那個醫院的證明齁但是因傷病診療只有證明而無法參加的就可以所以這個懷孕分明也在這因傷病診療的範圍之內對醫師要有醫師證明啊"},{"start":561.235,"end":588.123,"text":"對因為我們在因傷病診療我們一般會誤以為是不是他有其他的什麼工作傷害等等那懷孕分娩他有些像有些懷孕的婦女像醫生會診療說他要安胎啊不適合下床外出有些人體質他是要整個臥床甚至有臥床到生產像這種情況如果醫生證明的話就所以懷孕分娩一樣開得出醫生證明一樣可以在這個"},{"start":588.903,"end":588.923,"text":"委員．"}]}}}}