{"id":150924,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150924","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981a8f10de580e679545942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a6b01f5819580778665ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:25:55 - 12:38:20","影片長度":"00:12:25","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":745,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:38:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:25:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1107,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時26分）謝謝主席，麻煩請條平司黃司長。"],["主席：請黃司長。"],["黃司長維琛：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：司長好。記得上次本席請教您性別平等的問題，所以今天我也要再繼續請教育嬰留職停薪的問題。首先我要請教的是，育嬰留停的依據是不是放在性別平等工作法裡面？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，是。"],["陳委員瑩：好。育嬰留停的申請比例如果有性別差異的話，是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題？"],["黃司長維琛：育嬰留停這部分的話，它的性別比例差異可能代表家庭裡面分工的一些協調，我們是希望能夠讓男性的參與比例更高。"],["陳委員瑩：我的問題很簡單，簡單問，你就簡單回答。"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：所以，司長，今天專報的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例，你以男性司長的身分，是不是支持應該增加男性的比例？"],["黃司長維琛：我支持。"],["陳委員瑩：好。司長，增加男性申請育嬰留停的比例，我要請教一下，這裡的「增加」是男性跟女性比呢？還是男性自己跟自己比？還是男性未來跟過去比？"],["黃司長維琛：都要。"],["陳委員瑩：都要比，好。那我們再看一下簡報，上面是勞動部的新聞稿，事實上111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候，就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了，對一個家庭而言，他們要考慮的是兩個通通不領，或者是一個領，還是兩個都領。我不知道的是，司長，你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗呢？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，我有3個小孩。"],["陳委員瑩：那你應該經驗豐富。帶小孩跟去上班，我們都是過來人，我也知道非常辛苦，我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過，但是陪著小孩的成長，其實它應該是說更有幸福感，也有成就感，也非常的快樂，所以，如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候，我想所有的父母都應該會選擇留職在家照顧小孩子才對。","其實我看到安研所有一份研究報告寫得非常好，這個報告是「育嬰留職停薪津貼請領者職涯變化之探討」，我稍微念一下其中的重點：就勞保投保薪資級距觀察，呈現兩極化分配以及投保薪資級距集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高。這份研究報告，大家有空可以去看一下，蠻值得參考的。","按照現行的規定，我們有月投保薪資6成的補助加上2成的津貼，參考主計總處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為817萬8,000人，全年每人每月總薪資的平均如果以5萬8,545元來看，而且是以最高勞保級距的4萬5,800元來計算，每申請一件6個月的育嬰留職停薪，就代表他每月的家庭收入實際上減少了2萬2,000元，而且換算起來，實際收入越高，減少的就越多。所以一般收入有限的家庭正常來講就一定是由薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請育嬰留停的津貼，這樣對於整個家庭的財務衝擊會比較小一點。所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方經統計看起來似乎女性的比例比較高，所以勞動部應該思考的問題是如何提升女性的薪資水平，而不是只去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例。我們參考這整個統計數據，其實它是一個經濟的問題，而並非絕對是一個性別差異的問題。","司長，你有沒有想過？如果我們勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子，父母親同時申請育嬰留停津貼，就代表我們國家減少一個勞工人年的勞動力，以112年為例，我們臺灣有13.5萬名新生兒，如果父母雙方通通一起來使用育嬰留停津貼的話，代表我們減少13.5萬個勞工人年的勞動力，這個部分的缺工有沒有可能需要以外籍勞工來補充？會不會增加外籍勞工的人數？"],["黃司長維琛：報告委員，如果申請育嬰留職停薪，是可以進用部分定期契約的替代人力，這個部分就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那我們繼續看一下。基本上，本席當然舉雙手雙腳贊成，就是我們的育嬰假越多越好，但是要有完善的配套，剛剛也有講了，它可能造成勞動力短缺的問題，所以我們就今天這個專報的題目來看，在男性、女性的權益相同的時候，我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例，等於可能造成一個家庭總收入的減少，1個人2萬2,000元，2個人就4萬4,000元，那半年加起來就是26萬4,000元，有哪一個年輕的勞工家庭承受得了？很難嘛！"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：而且大家都請假了，外籍勞工補充人力的需求會增加，所以我要請教司長，你要如何增加男性申請育嬰假的比例呢？"],["黃司長維琛：對這個部分大家有在討論讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下，就是說我們這次在試辦，看30天有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點，那他可能彈性申請運用的機率就會再高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那我再來算給你聽，我們113年的同酬日是2月23日，男女雙方還有54天的薪資差異，那你們有沒有針對女力提升補助短期專業訓練課程的費用？有沒有這個？"],["黃司長維琛：這個訓練的部分在我們發展署那邊有努力。"],["陳委員瑩：我就知道你會講發展署，完全在我的預料之內。好，你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工投保薪資的變化是否有顯著的差異嗎？有沒有？"],["黃司長維琛：大型事業單位的平均投保薪資當然會比較高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：你就想一想你有沒有做啦！"],["黃司長維琛：我們沒有去直接……"],["陳委員瑩：或者你覺得那是誰的……"],["黃司長維琛：但是它確實是會比較高一點。"],["陳委員瑩：你不要犯了職安署署長過去的毛病，簡單問，簡單回答。"],["黃司長維琛：是。"],["陳委員瑩：再來，你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成勞工權益損失的證據然後對外說明？你想一想有沒有？其實我根本就不用問下一題，因為你已經透露出預測到我要問的問題，我下一個要問的是你該不會認為以上的問題都和你的業務無關吧？你已經點名別的署了！"],["黃司長維琛：我們這邊的話就是包括這個性別平等的部分一定會一起去解決，它不是一個單一點。"],["陳委員瑩：好啦！我比較擔心你只會提醒勞資雙方不要發生職場性騷擾，然後認為這樣就代表你們性平做得好。"],["黃司長維琛：不是，不是這樣。"],["陳委員瑩：最好是像你說的這樣，你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作。","好，本席順帶提醒一下，勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌的法律名稱變了，或許是因為執行得不好，那整部法律的名稱、內容都更改了，但還是沿用原主管機關的名稱，像性平法已經變成性工法了，但是你們還是叫條平司，另外就是職安署，現在職保法都已經沒有了，業務也轉到勞保局，可是你們還有一個職保組，這樣會不會有一點名不正言不順，還是說要不要裁撤？我想我就丟出這些問題，讓你們各位主管還有首長去思考一下。","最後，本席要再一次謝謝、也要肯定許銘春部長非常傑出的領導，因為在我們這一次準備質詢時我才發現一件事情，其實今天很多委員也提了，但是大家都沒有提到後面，我要講一下。忽然大家的耳朵都豎起來。在110年提高育嬰假2成的補助，還有在111年父母雙方同時都可以領，這個真的是許部長很重要的政績，要給她掌聲鼓勵。各位同仁，你們拍手可以拍大聲一點。再來是性工法的修訂跟災保法的訂定，尤其是災保法，是在本席擔任召委時與許部長一起，我們當時的那段過程還有很多委員的參與，在大家共同努力之下，突破了15年以來各界的疑慮並順利完成，所以非常的不容易。在災保法實施之後，部長更是兼任這個法人的董事長，她凡事親力親為，雖然做兩份工作卻只領一份薪水而已。我相信許部長的身影會一直留在勞動部每一位同仁的心裡還有我的心裡。我也提醒勞動部的官員們，以後推動法案可能就不見得有這麼容易，那我們大家還是要繼續努力。以上跟大家共勉之，謝謝。"],["黃司長維琛：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳瑩委員。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":154,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","王育敏","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","林淑芬","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 712.615, \"end\": 712.795, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 712.795, \"end\": 712.815, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 713.695, \"end\": 713.715, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 743.837, \"end\": 743.979, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"瑩\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 743.979, \"end\": 743.999, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:19,831 --> 00:00:22,893\n好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平斯黃司長請黃司長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:34,455 --> 00:01:03,314\n市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了\n\n3\n00:01:04,554 --> 00:01:05,715\n我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是\n\n4\n00:01:23,134 --> 00:01:46,586\n市長今天專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以男性司長的身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持市長男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是\n\n5\n00:01:48,146 --> 00:01:55,156\n男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比\n\n6\n00:01:55,916 --> 00:02:18,846\n都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。\n\n7\n00:02:20,086 --> 00:02:37,318\n那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗\n\n8\n00:02:38,519 --> 00:02:51,411\n報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過\n\n9\n00:02:54,174 --> 00:03:13,732\n但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對\n\n10\n00:03:18,147 --> 00:03:34,951\n其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。\n\n11\n00:03:38,049 --> 00:03:54,716\n就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的\n\n12\n00:03:56,877 --> 00:04:18,892\n按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看\n\n13\n00:04:21,994 --> 00:04:39,628\n而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元\n\n14\n00:04:41,690 --> 00:04:58,746\n而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼\n\n15\n00:04:59,847 --> 00:05:20,054\n那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題\n\n16\n00:05:21,594 --> 00:05:50,233\n是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子\n\n17\n00:05:51,975 --> 00:06:15,952\n父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力\n\n18\n00:06:19,454 --> 00:06:46,382\n那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是\n\n19\n00:06:49,147 --> 00:07:05,482\n基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看\n\n20\n00:07:09,225 --> 00:07:30,986\n男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了\n\n21\n00:07:31,647 --> 00:07:34,288\n您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?\n\n22\n00:07:51,503 --> 00:08:07,943\n這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點\n\n23\n00:08:08,968 --> 00:08:28,409\n好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個\n\n24\n00:08:34,140 --> 00:08:50,096\n這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有\n\n25\n00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:57,941\n你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有\n\n26\n00:09:21,741 --> 00:09:50,623\n還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好\n\n27\n00:09:51,263 --> 00:10:20,239\n不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署\n\n28\n00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:22,700\n那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長\n\n29\n00:10:48,248 --> 00:11:03,122\n非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來\n\n30\n00:11:04,989 --> 00:11:23,784\n110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點\n\n31\n00:11:27,223 --> 00:11:52,815\n那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長\n\n32\n00:11:53,695 --> 00:11:53,715\n謝謝委員\n\n33\n00:12:23,837 --> 00:12:23,999\n好謝謝陳瑩委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n19831\t22893\t好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平斯黃司長請黃司長委員好\n34455\t63314\t市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了\n64554\t65715\t我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是\n83134\t106586\t市長今天專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以男性司長的身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持市長 男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是\n108146\t115156\t男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比\n115916\t138846\t都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。\n140086\t157318\t那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗\n158519\t171411\t報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過\n174174\t193732\t但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對\n198147\t214951\t其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。\n218049\t234716\t就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的\n236877\t258892\t按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看\n261994\t279628\t而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元\n281690\t298746\t而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼\n299847\t320054\t那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題\n321594\t350233\t是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子\n351975\t375952\t父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力\n379454\t406382\t那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是\n409147\t425482\t基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看\n429225\t450986\t男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了\n451647\t454288\t您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?\n471503\t487943\t這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點\n488968\t508409\t好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個\n514140\t530096\t這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有\n532759\t537941\t你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有\n561741\t590623\t還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好\n591263\t620239\t不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署\n620879\t622700\t那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長\n648248\t663122\t非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來\n664989\t683784\t110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點\n687223\t712815\t那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長\n713695\t713715\t謝謝委員\n743837\t743999\t好謝謝陳瑩委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平斯黃司長請黃司長委員好\n市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了\n我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是\n市長今天專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以男性司長的身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持市長 男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是\n男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比\n都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。\n那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗\n報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過\n但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對\n其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。\n就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的\n按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看\n而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元\n而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼\n那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題\n是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子\n父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力\n那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是\n基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看\n男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了\n您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?\n這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點\n好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個\n這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有\n你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有\n還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好\n不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署\n那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長\n非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來\n110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點\n那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長\n謝謝委員\n好謝謝陳瑩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:19.831 --> 00:22.893\n好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平斯黃司長請黃司長委員好\n\n00:34.455 --> 01:03.314\n市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了\n\n01:04.554 --> 01:05.715\n我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是\n\n01:23.134 --> 01:46.586\n市長今天專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以男性司長的身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持市長男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是\n\n01:48.146 --> 01:55.156\n男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比\n\n01:55.916 --> 02:18.846\n都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。\n\n02:20.086 --> 02:37.318\n那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗\n\n02:38.519 --> 02:51.411\n報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過\n\n02:54.174 --> 03:13.732\n但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對\n\n03:18.147 --> 03:34.951\n其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。\n\n03:38.049 --> 03:54.716\n就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的\n\n03:56.877 --> 04:18.892\n按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看\n\n04:21.994 --> 04:39.628\n而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元\n\n04:41.690 --> 04:58.746\n而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼\n\n04:59.847 --> 05:20.054\n那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題\n\n05:21.594 --> 05:50.233\n是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子\n\n05:51.975 --> 06:15.952\n父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力\n\n06:19.454 --> 06:46.382\n那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是\n\n06:49.147 --> 07:05.482\n基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看\n\n07:09.225 --> 07:30.986\n男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了\n\n07:31.647 --> 07:34.288\n您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?\n\n07:51.503 --> 08:07.943\n這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點\n\n08:08.968 --> 08:28.409\n好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個\n\n08:34.140 --> 08:50.096\n這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有\n\n08:52.759 --> 08:57.941\n你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有\n\n09:21.741 --> 09:50.623\n還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好\n\n09:51.263 --> 10:20.239\n不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署\n\n10:20.879 --> 10:22.700\n那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長\n\n10:48.248 --> 11:03.122\n非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來\n\n11:04.989 --> 11:23.784\n110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點\n\n11:27.223 --> 11:52.815\n那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長\n\n11:53.695 --> 11:53.715\n謝謝委員\n\n12:23.837 --> 12:23.999\n好謝謝陳瑩委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":19.831,"end":22.893,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩請這個條平斯黃司長請黃司長委員好"},{"start":34.455,"end":63.314,"text":"市長好那記得上次本席有請教您這個性別平等的問題所以今天我要再繼續請教這個育嬰留職停薪的這個問題首先我要請教的是這個育嬰停留的依據是不是放在性別性別平等工作法裡面報告委員是好那如果這樣育嬰留停的這個申請比例如果有性別上的差異的話那是不是就出現了性別不平等的問題了"},{"start":64.554,"end":65.715,"text":"我的問題就很簡單啦簡單問你就簡單回答是"},{"start":83.134,"end":106.586,"text":"市長今天專報上的題目是如何增加男性申請育嬰留職停薪的比例你以男性司長的身份是不是支持應該增加男性的比例我支持市長 男性增加比例這裡的增加我要請教一下是"},{"start":108.146,"end":115.156,"text":"男性跟女性比呢還是男性自己跟自己比還是男性未來跟過去比"},{"start":115.916,"end":138.846,"text":"都要。都要比。好。那我們再看一下這個簡報。上面是勞動部的這個新聞稿。那事實上呢,111年1月開放父母可同時請領育嬰留職停薪津貼的時候就已經不涉及任何性別不平等的問題了。"},{"start":140.086,"end":157.318,"text":"那對一個家庭而言考慮的是他們要考慮的是兩個通通不要或者是兩個通通不領或者是一個領還是兩個都領或者兩個對沒錯那我不知道的是說師長你有沒有自己帶小孩的經驗"},{"start":158.519,"end":171.411,"text":"報告委員我三個小孩那你應該經驗豐富那這個帶小孩跟去上班我們都是過來人我也知道非常辛苦我也曾經帶小孩子來立法院質詢過"},{"start":174.174,"end":193.732,"text":"但是陪著小孩的這個成長其實他是應該說更有幸福感也有成就感也非常的快樂所以如果在收入減損的幅度不大的時候呢我想大家所有的父母都應該會多會選擇說留職在家照顧小孩子才對"},{"start":198.147,"end":214.951,"text":"其實我有看到安研所有一份研究報告,他寫得非常好。這個報告是《育嬰留職停薪津貼情靈者職涯變化之探討》。我稍微念一下這個重點。"},{"start":218.049,"end":234.716,"text":"就老保投保薪資集聚觀察呈現兩極化分配及投保薪資集聚集中於兩端的族群比重相對較高我想這一份研究報告大家有空可以去看一下蠻值得參考的"},{"start":236.877,"end":258.892,"text":"按照這個現行的規定我們有月投保薪資六成的補助加上兩成的津貼那參考主計處112年全年受僱員工人數平均為8178000人那全年每人每月總薪資的平均是如果我們以這個58545元來看"},{"start":261.994,"end":279.628,"text":"而且是以這個最高的這個勞保級距的45800元來計算那每申請一件6個月的這個育嬰留值停薪代表他的每月的家庭收入呢實際上就減少了22000元"},{"start":281.69,"end":298.746,"text":"而且這個換算起來實際收入越高減少的就越多所以一般收入有限的家庭呢一般正常來講他就會一定是由這個薪資比較低的那一方優先考慮申請這個育嬰留停的這個津貼"},{"start":299.847,"end":320.054,"text":"那這樣子的話對於這個整個家庭的這個財務衝擊就會比較小一點所以這個問題的癥結點是在於家庭收入較低的一方統計起來看起來似乎女性的比例都是比較高的所以勞動部應該思考的問題"},{"start":321.594,"end":350.233,"text":"是如何提升女性的薪資水平而不是只是去思考如何提升男性育嬰留停的比例所以這整個我們參考這個整個數據統計下來其實它是一個經濟的問題而並非絕對是個性別差異的問題所以師長你有沒有想過如果我們的這個勞工朋友的家庭每生一位孩子"},{"start":351.975,"end":375.952,"text":"父母親同時請這個育嬰留停津貼就代表我們國家就減少一個勞工人年的一個勞動力那以112年為例我們台灣有13.5名的這個新生兒那如果父母雙方通通一起來使用這個育嬰留停津貼的話代表我們減少的是13.5萬個這個勞工人年的這個勞動力"},{"start":379.454,"end":406.382,"text":"那這個部分的這個缺工是不是有沒有可能是需要以這個外籍勞工來補充那會不會增加這個外籍勞工的人數報告委員那個如果申請育嬰留職停薪是可以禁用部分定期契約的替代人力那這個部分的話就是我們的發展署那邊會全力先找找看國內有沒有願意來做的人好那我們再繼續看一下就是"},{"start":409.147,"end":425.482,"text":"基本上本席當然雙手雙腳贊成就是說我們育嬰假越多越好但是要有完善的配套因為這個剛剛講的他可能造成這個勞動力短缺的問題所以如果今天我們就這個專報的題目來看"},{"start":429.225,"end":450.986,"text":"男性女性的權益相同的時候那我們如果要增加單一性別的申請比例的時候那等於可能造成一個家庭的總收入的減少嘛那一個兩萬二那兩個就四萬四那半年勒就等於加起來二十六萬四千元勒那哪一個這個年輕的這個勞工家庭承受得了"},{"start":451.647,"end":454.288,"text":"您如何提高男性育嬰留停比例?"},{"start":471.503,"end":487.943,"text":"這個部分的話就是大家有在討論說讓他在彈性更高一點的情況下就是說我們這次在試辦把30天看有沒有機會在某一個程度上再下降一點那他可能彈性申請的運用的機率就會再高一點"},{"start":488.968,"end":508.409,"text":"好那我再來算個那個給你聽就是我們113年同酬日是這個2月23日那男女雙方還有54天的這個薪資差異那你們有沒有針對女力的提升然後補充短期專業訓練的課程的費用嗎有沒有這個"},{"start":514.14,"end":530.096,"text":"這個訓練的部分的話在我們發展署那邊有努力我就知道你會講發展署完全在我的預料之內你有去比較大型事業單位男女性別勞工的投資這個投保薪資的變化是否有這個顯著的差異有沒有"},{"start":532.759,"end":537.941,"text":"你們有沒有真的去找性別不平等造成的這個勞工權益損失的證據對外說明有沒有想一想有沒有"},{"start":561.741,"end":590.623,"text":"還是...其實我下一題根本就不用問因為你已經...你已經露出我預測的問題就是我下一個要問說你該不會認為以上的問題都和你業務無關吧你已經點名別的數了我們這邊的話就是一定包括這個性別平衡的部分一定會一起來去解決它不是一個單一點就是還是我比較擔心說還是你只是會提醒勞資雙方說不要發生職場性騷擾就代表你們性品做得好"},{"start":591.263,"end":620.239,"text":"不是不是這樣最好是這樣啊你也不要想說那個全部都是別人的工作好本期順帶提醒一下喔勞動部現在有兩個單位執掌法律名稱變了或者是因為執行的不好那整部法律名稱內容都更改了但是還是沿用這個會沿用原主管法律名稱像這個性平法已經變成性工法了但是呢你們還是叫調平司嘛那另外職安署"},{"start":620.879,"end":622.7,"text":"那最後本期就是要再一次我要謝謝也要肯定我們許民春部長"},{"start":648.248,"end":663.122,"text":"非常傑出的領導因為我們這一次準備質詢我才發現一件事情其實今天很多委員提了但是大家都沒有提到後面我要講一下忽然大家耳朵都豎起來"},{"start":664.989,"end":683.784,"text":"110年提高育嬰假兩成的補助還有110年111年的父母雙方同時都可以領這個真的是我們許部長很重要的政績要給他掌聲鼓勵那再來各位同仁你們可以拍大聲一點"},{"start":687.223,"end":712.815,"text":"那這個性供法的修訂跟這個災保法的這個訂定尤其是災保法更是本席擔任召委於許部長我們當時那段過程還有我們很多委員的參與大家共同努力之下突破了15年以來各界的疑慮順利完成的非常的不容易那災保法實施之後呢部長其實更是兼任這個法人的董事長"},{"start":713.695,"end":713.715,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":743.837,"end":743.999,"text":"好謝謝陳瑩委員"}]}}}}