{"id":150925,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150925","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981dbe9c6e72bdb4e965942adc12f721acdf8ba9b0039caa7a643052525fe23673a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:38:24 - 12:51:31","影片長度":"00:13:07","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部、行政院人事行政總處、銓敘部、教育部、國防部就「安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-08","duration":787,"end_time":"2024-04-08T12:51:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-08T12:38:24+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1151,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時38分）好，謝謝主席，慎重歡迎部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：好，部長，你一樣也會留在我心中。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：我們要試辦彈性的育嬰留職停薪，就是要在5月1日來試辦到12月底。"],["許部長銘春：施行期間可能會延後，因為有相關的配套等等，我們認為需要再徵詢大家的意見，所以大概會延後一些。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼要延後一些？現在到12月底才只剩下8個月。"],["許部長銘春：因為意見的蒐集需要一些時間，委員有很多的指教，我也認為有道理。"],["劉委員建國：是因為今天質詢之後？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，在上一次我們公布那個原則以後，很多委員認為應該要讓整個原則更有誘因，然後讓大家更好使用，願意自動性的來幫忙。"],["劉委員建國：所以你們要延到什麼時候？原本是5月1日，沒有錯嘛！對不對？"],["許部長銘春：我想可能會延後1個月。"],["劉委員建國：就是可能6月1日，如果到12月底就剩下7個月，應該這麼說嘛！"],["許部長銘春：因為試辦期間也不要太長啦！我們其實就是看……"],["劉委員建國：所以你們公文是在3月15日就發給各公私單位，來邀請嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，我們是調查意願。"],["劉委員建國：歡迎大家來參加，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，歡迎大家。"],["劉委員建國：報名截止日是4月1號，有改嗎？你要延後，有再改嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個陸陸續續還會再收，我們到4月1號收到的是63家，可能後續還會陸續收到。"],["劉委員建國：不是，你們原本截止日就是4月1號嗎？有沒有再延後截止日？如果沒有延後就是63家。你要延後到什麼時候？你們現在延後試辦計畫，截止日要不要延後？"],["許部長銘春：可以，這沒有問題。"],["劉委員建國：要延到什麼時候？"],["許部長銘春：我們大概就是到這個月底吧？本來是4月1號，我們就延到4月底。"],["劉委員建國：所以馬上決定了？"],["許部長銘春：對。原則就是業務單位如果作業可以，我們就……"],["劉委員建國：不是，因為如果照原有的4月1號報名截止日是63家，我覺得這樣你會採取的……"],["許部長銘春：收到的，可能還有，因為可能有些郵件會比較慢一點。"],["劉委員建國：有也應該不多了，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：試辦本來就是小規模看看，先務實地瞭解……"],["劉委員建國：試辦為什麼一定要小規模？如果你的誘因足夠，就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多「歡迎」，對不對？你們這麼歡迎，大家都踴躍參加……"],["許部長銘春：當然越多越好。"],["劉委員建國：你要採取的資料（data）就更多，就更精準。"],["許部長銘春：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：應該會超過63家以上，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：應該是。"],["劉委員建國：目前掌握到63家是公部門居多，還是……"],["許部長銘春：私部門。"],["劉委員建國：私部門居多？"],["許部長銘春：私部門五十幾家。"],["劉委員建國：我是說你們掌握的比例，是公部門居多，還是私部門居多？"],["許部長銘春：私部門多。"],["劉委員建國：私部門多過於公部門，是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["劉委員建國：不錯，這樣政策形成之前的試辦計畫就會產生效果，如果是公部門大過於私部門，我覺得就有很大的討論空間；如果是私部門大過於公部門，你幹嘛再延後？那就奇怪了，誰跟你們說要延後？"],["許部長銘春：之前有委員建議，我們再增加誘因或許會讓更多人有意願，我想這個也有道理，所以我們4月2號才召集……"],["劉委員建國：你們這個很奇怪，我們也是委員，但有時候建議，你們不一定會聽。你們都聽哪幾個委員的？我們瞭解一下。"],["許部長銘春：沒有，您建議的我也都會聽。"],["劉委員建國：哪有？"],["許部長銘春：有道理的我們都會參考。"],["劉委員建國：也不一定。"],["許部長銘春：但是因為有些委員……"],["劉委員建國：有時候洪申翰委員的建議，你們就不一定聽。"],["許部長銘春：不是，有些委員的確擔心我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做，所以故意弄一個不是很完整的原則，我想不要引起大家的疑慮，所以委員的建議，包括誘因，包括……"],["劉委員建國：我剛剛就問出一個重點，如果到截止日是私部門大過於公部門，而且比例還高過很多，基本上就是私部門也可以認同，而不是因為你們要推，公部門就必須很勉強地配合你們，所以你們在報告裡面都要用「歡迎」的字眼，然後有很多的但書，我還擔心你們會產生「但但」的哀愁，太多但書，你自己去看你們相關的一些準則跟辦法。你看你們規定應包括下列事項，第二開始寫「但……」，第三後面就「但……」，第四後面又「但……」，第五又是「但……」，怎麼這麼多「但」？這個原則有這麼多的但書，已經不叫原則了吧，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：主要是我們……"],["劉委員建國：我無意挑戰這個人的寫法，不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪。"],["許部長銘春：我們1月有召集相關的工商團體開會，他們都認為試辦OK，但是認為不要一開始有太多限制，所以讓他們有多一點空間……"],["劉委員建國：對，所以才會多出這麼多的但書。現在有很多委員問，怎麼是在5日前？5日前每個家長都必須會通靈，才知道4月3號的5日前會發生大地震，對不對？每個家長都必須瞭解什麼時候可能會有腸病毒集體感染，所以都要在5日前就要通靈了，不可能嘛！所以你們才會歡迎，低於5日的也可以提出，然後幾個小時的也可以提出，是不是這樣？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["劉委員建國：對啊！"],["許部長銘春：因為這是自願性，所以儘量讓空間大一點，我們就是訂定一個原則，但不是那麼強制，因此但書會比較多，看起來就如同委員講的，怎麼會有那麼多但書，其實用意就是讓大家儘量能夠有更多的彈性，更多……"],["劉委員建國：勞動部要辦這個試辦計畫，最主要還是要反映真實的狀態，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["劉委員建國：我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久，是不是對勞工真的是一大福音。如果只是豁免保費、人力媒合、優先服務等等，就像剛才部長講的，很多委員就提出，若沒有更好的誘因，它為什麼會優於勞動部現在訂出的這些相關規範？它就不需要嘛！如果是這樣，當然你就沒有辦法呈現真實的狀態，你的政策要推，我們就不曉得推的到底是不是可長可久。這是其一。既然你們有延後，我尊重勞動部，也請部長重新檢視這個方案，讓它更臻完備、完善，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。第二件事情是，法律的規定還是最低標準，你看很多公司行號要達到這個標準也不是這麼簡單，所以我也覺得很奇怪，為什麼你們都會用「歡迎」？譬如勞動部歡迎雇主提出優於你們的方針。你看0403地震上班族遲到，他見公司的群組傻眼，「須請假、全勤減半」，最右邊是LINE的對話。"],["許部長銘春：這個違反……"],["劉委員建國：對，違反了，好，再看下一則。勞動部在4月3號早上9點就發這個新聞稿，很棒，可是你看4月3號11點52分，這又是另外一個群組，裡面提到「今天遲到同仁要請假一小時，全勤減半」。你再看這是另外一個群組，「沒辦法，這就是規定，我也遲到了，甚至全勤不會扣半，是全扣，但也是沒辦法」。下面又有另外一個群組，「這不是很正常嗎？餐飲遇到颱風天也是要自己想辦法上班，遲到了也是要扣薪，正常行業這樣就唉唉叫，當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時，有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題？」這是另外一個群組。部長怎麼看這個事情？"],["許部長銘春：有兩個問題，尤其是剛剛群組的LINE，有可能是在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前，他們就先傳了，但是後來我們說明之後，他們應該要遵守法律的規範。第二個，當然有些可能不瞭解，我們針對這些雇主端的法令宣導要更加強，讓他們瞭解。另外，如果真的權益有受損，他們沒有改變的話，可以來申訴，各地方政府都會處理，如果還是這樣就會懲罰。"],["劉委員建國：部長都沒有詳讀我的資料，你們是9點公布的，這個群組是11點52分。"],["許部長銘春：我們公布沒錯，他有沒有看到也是一個問題，如果是11點52分，就是我們公布以後，但是……"],["劉委員建國：不一定是勞工看到，最起碼雇主也要看到，所以雇主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹，然後你們連一個通報專線都沒有，只知道這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫李先生，他留手機。如果在這麼多則的情況之下，這個李先生要在這個單位待很久，我相信也有困難，他會很辛苦，壓力會很大，他會申請彈性的育嬰津貼。","新聞稿出來了，卻連通報的專線都沒有，上面還寫主管的名字叫黃司長，黃司長後面要再括號註明你的行動電話，才可以分擔李仁龍先生這樣的壓力吧？因為我的辦公室找了這3則，可能別的委員辦公室，比如洪委員的辦公室應該也有，對不對？我們就要打電話給司長、打電話給李先生，反映這個事情。怎麼雇主到現在還不曉得這件事情？怎麼雇主還敢幹這種事情？怎麼讓勞工在發生這麼大地震的時候，舉國都難過的過程裡面，全勤還要被扣東扣西，還會遇到這種事情？難道你們這個還是優於雇主，最終優於法規的心態？歡迎？"],["許部長銘春：沒有、不會，如果他們還是執意這樣做，勞工一定可以申訴，不管打1955或者地方政府、勞工局也都會有專線處理。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你有聽到，我把這些資料提供給你，對不對？是不是能有更強硬的新聞稿，然後把1955都留上去，這樣司長跟那個李先生才會可長可久。"],["許部長銘春：好。我交代同仁以後像這些都要把1955專線寫在上面，讓勞工都能夠瞭解。"],["劉委員建國：最後一件事情，這個也滿重要的，這個大地震也震出很多工安問題，我相信媒體幾乎每天都在報，奇怪！沒地震也掉，地震掉更多，沒地震掉得更少嗎？那倒也未必啊！勞動部要不要趕快跟國土署、地方政府看看怎麼去做這些事情的因應？不然，高空的吊臂經常在掉，我覺得太恐怖了吧！你看去年的5月10號臺中捷運已經造成1死10傷，同年的11月28號在新北的林口也發生了吊臂斷裂意外，砸到了公車亭，還好剛好沒有人，對不對？署長要講，給你講。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員的提醒，去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係，這次地震全國有7個塔吊確實有一些狀況，我們立即要求停工，他們後面要拆除、要調整，當然依照安全標準來做處置。這個災害發生之後，我們請各地方職安機構特別提醒有塔吊的要先做自動檢查，OK才可以繼續做，後面就全面展開了，謝謝委員提醒。"],["劉委員建國：我想不是只有單純地震這個原因，對不對？因為從去年開始，其實有些可能沒有這麼嚴重，也不一定見報，所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強，因為現在的建築案件坦白講比往年都成長非常多，所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員。","接下來請洪申翰委員發言。洪委員申翰：（12時51分）請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們今天又再次討論育嬰留停的問題，其實大家對這件事非常非常關注的原因是，因為大家都知道很多勞工朋友面對懷孕、產假或育嬰這件事情，幾乎是他人生必經的一個過程，如果要育嬰的人沒有辦法選擇育嬰留停，很有可能他就變成要離職，這可能造成就業上的不穩定。在今年年初的時候，我揭露了一個由衛福部的經費聘用但在民間團體服務的社工人員，因為育嬰留停的關係，整筆年終獎金都消失，這部分我在今年1月的時候有揭露，部長對這個事件有什麼看法？"],["許部長銘春：我想不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待，這是基本原則。"],["洪委員申翰：是，部長說得很好。當然這一個事件後來衛福部也做出作法上面的調整，我覺得剛剛部長講到了一個重點，就是不能因為育嬰留停而對勞工有不利的對待或差別的對待。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["洪委員申翰：接下來我要談的事情是關於公立大學裡面的問題，所以我想請教育部人事處、人總考用處跟銓敘部銓審司的人員上臺。處長跟司長，我想跟你們說，這段時間有越來越多公立大學裡面的社工師來跟我陳情，他們講到大學裡面也有因為育嬰留停的不公平制度。我想先請三位處長跟司長來看一下這張圖，這是一位校園內的專案社工師，這個專案社工師是拿教育部經費的專任專業輔導人員，他因為請了育嬰留停，復職後雖然他的在職表現仍是拿甲等，但是因為請了育嬰留停，所以連兩年無法加薪，因為他被另予考核。就是在我們的規定裡面，只要你育嬰留停就會被打為另予考核。就算你考績是甲等、乙等、丙等，但是對不起！你還是不能晉薪。這個規定不只是單一間大學有，我們查了好幾間學校，有好幾間國立大學的契僱人員工作考核實施要點裡面都是這個狀況。我想先請許部長，部長，你覺得如果職場裡面有人因為請了育嬰留停，他就特別被標註，這是明文寫的，就不晉薪，不能加薪，你覺得這是不是一個不利的對待或者歧視性的對待？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我要問教育部，這個狀況你們什麼看法？"],["王處長崇斌：跟委員報告，有關編制外專案教師的部分沒有……"],["洪委員申翰：是社工師哦！"],["王處長崇斌：是，他也是屬於編制外相關行政人力的一種，他沒有工作滿全年的原因很多，不光只是因為留職停薪的關係，所以學校可能會對他的考核用另予考核來處理。"],["洪委員申翰：不對！這邊寫了，如果他的工作表現不好，但是他就算工作表現OK，他是甲等的，也會因為他育嬰留停而被要求另予考核，而且這個另予考核就寫明他是不晉薪的，相比於其他是不晉薪的。他的表現如果不好，沒有辦法被加薪，我們沒有什麼好說的，但他表現OK，考績甲等，其他同樣都是考績甲等的人可以加薪，但對不起！因為你育嬰留停，所以你不能晉薪，這什麼道理？"],["王處長崇斌：這個部分我們再就學校編制內跟編制外相關教育人員的相關事項，進一步做研議，再跟委員這邊回報。"],["洪委員申翰：教育部，包括銓敘部、人總今天都有來，其實我想這是很明顯的，今天不管他是公務人員還是勞工，在這個規定裡面明明白白寫了，這就是歧視性的對待嘛！因為你育嬰留停，所以我不管你的考績如何、我不管你工作表現如何，就是不能加薪，這上面就是這樣寫的，而且這不只是一間大學，而是幾間大學都有類似的規定喔！所以教育部人事處處長，你不覺得這該修嗎？按照剛才部長說的，這其實是一個不利對待喔！"],["王處長崇斌：這個原則上如果是有全年的考績的話，他的考核結果是可以拿來當作晉級的依據，如果是另予考核的話，因為他本身沒有全年工作的情形，所以或許有部分的學校會另外做處理。這個部分我們再做通盤的評估，再做適當的處理。"],["洪委員申翰：教育部，我要說你今天要怎麼評價他的工作表現，我沒有意見，他工作表現是好是壞，這是一個因素，你依照他的工作表現來評估沒有問題，但今天很明顯，育嬰留停已經成為他被不予晉薪甚至不能升遷的因素了，這就是明明白白的歧視對待啊！教育部，我覺得你們應該大膽一點，我也會再找你們部長，你們應該大膽一點，這事情該改就改，就應該通令下去跟各個學校說，不能用這樣的作法嘛！今天不管是公務人員，還是像社工師的勞工，都不應該有這樣的作法嘛！如果有這個作法，我們怎麼跟大家說我們是鼓勵大家育嬰留停的？我們鼓勵大家兼顧育嬰跟工作，我們要怎麼去跟人家講這個事情？所以教育部，請問可不可以在一個月內，請你召集包括邀請勞動部、銓敘部、人總開一個會，針對這些工作者在大學裡面當年度育嬰留停就被另予考核，而且這另予考核的重點是會影響他的晉薪和升遷，是明文規定的，這部分能不能召開一個會來討論怎麼來修改這規定，至少不要讓育嬰留停變成是一個歧視性的因素，可以嗎？"],["王處長崇斌：是，委員，我們會配合辦理。"],["洪委員申翰：一個月可以嗎？好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪申翰委員發言。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員廖偉翔、楊曜、黃仁、黃珊珊、陳菁徽、蘇清泉、陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員廖偉翔書面質詢：","案由：本院廖委員偉翔，藉本院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議向勞動部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、有鑑於勞動部刻正與地方主管機關聯手辦理有「強化輔導雇主設置哺（集）乳室」、「擴大補助雇主設置哺（集）乳室」及「協助雇主規劃辦理托兒設施」等施政事項，然而探究其執行之經費來源，乃來自在本年度便將截止支出之「我國少子女化對策計畫（107年─113年）」專案。","二、爰此，特要求勞動部說明，來年自114年度開始，上開事項會否將因此發生經費斷炊之情形？抑或勞動部將規劃自所屬之施政事項，用以公務預算或基金預算獨立執行？請最速釋疑。"],["委員楊曜書面質詢：","一、請勞動部研議中小企業彈性育嬰假之可行方案為何？","問題：經濟部發布《2023年中小企業白皮書》中資料顯示，2022年臺灣中小企業家數超過163萬家，占全體企業達98%以上，就業人數為913萬2千人，占全國就業人數維持8成，顯示我國就業仍以中小企業為主，但中小企業工作人力較無彈性，但新手父母親確實也有請彈性育嬰假之必要，為避免勞資關係緊張，請勞動部研議合適中小企業之彈性育嬰假方案，以利營造友善職場育嬰環境。","二、公務人員請假規則研擬新增照顧未滿六歲子女之「幼兒照顧假」，勞動部對於性別平等工作法新增幼兒照顧假看法為何？","問題：銓敘部今年二月公告公務人員請假規則修正草案，研擬於公務人員請假規則新增「幼兒照顧假」，針對育有未滿6歲子女的公務員，得請7日幼兒照顧假，每增加1名子女，每年另增給3日，政府機關內所僱人員，除公務人員及準用公務人員法規之聘僱人員外，尚有適用勞基法之人員（如約用人員），若同一機關內有所差別待遇，勢必有相對剝奪感，雖然目前《性別平等工作法》內有明訂「家庭照顧假」，概念似幼兒照顧假，但本質上仍不同，為此，勞動部對於性別平等工作法新增幼兒照顧假看法為何？","三、學者表示，要改善少子化問題，除政策補助外，應同時改善女性職場環境，勞動部如何精進現行政策？","問題：學者指出，台灣經濟奇蹟的背後，是勞工付出高工時的血汗換來的，員工在生子育兒、經營家庭的重要階段，卻必須投入大半時間在職場，在被嚴重壓榨下，不少女性為了育兒必須離職，導致女性勞動力流失，這是對勞動力殺雞取卵，又婦女新知基金會曾統計，台灣有3歲幼兒以下婦女就業率，30年來提升了40%，且已達七、八成，職業婦女比率已高於全職媽媽，但生育率反而更低了。劉毓秀說，這代表媽媽為了保有工作，不願再生下一胎，很多女性看到支持媽媽的就業措施不足，充滿育兒與職場歧視，更不會考慮生小孩了，檢視勞動部現行諸多政策，有做，卻達不到政策目標，為此，勞動部如何持續改善女性職場環境，並持續精進職場上友善生育的配套措施，讓雇主願意配合政策的推動？","四、請勞動部研議提高育嬰假之薪資替代率的可行性。","問題：有民間團體表示，歐美國家推動育嬰照顧假改革，鼓勵男性請假，甚至將請假比率當成政策KPI，研究發現，薪資替代率提高，可讓爸爸更願意請假；台灣推出男性育嬰假以來，將六成薪提升到八成薪，爸爸申請育嬰照顧假比率雖有提升，但，在少子化已成國安危機的緊急狀態下，八成的薪資替代率顯然還不夠；以瑞典為例，國家在育嬰假期間提供八成薪，公會跟雇主協商再補足二成，達到替代率百分百，讓爸爸請育嬰假期間的收入不受影響。不過到了台灣，不管公務員或勞工，都普遍有高薪低報現象，公教人員是用本俸計算，可能只有兩、三萬元，勞工也有用底薪計算的類似狀況，薪資替代率不夠高，爸爸請假意願就難提升，為此，請勞動部研議提高育嬰假之薪資替代率的可行性。"],["委員黃仁書面質詢：","議題：","安心生養！試辦彈性育嬰假及如何提高男性育嬰留停比例","案由：日前有民間團體倡議推動育嬰假要彈性化，開放讓育嬰假以日、小時為單位請領，而現在勞動部針對民間團體所提出的需求，預計從今年5月至12月起開放企業申請試辦，盼自願參加的雇主提供5到7天為請假單位的彈性育嬰假。若試辦單位願意訂定以「單日」為單位的方案也歡迎，盼藉此提高男性育嬰留停比例。","行政院指出，為建構友善家庭職場、鼓勵男性共同分擔家務，2021年7月起，行政院推動育嬰留職停薪津貼從六成提升至八成、放寬彈性申請，帶動男性申請育嬰留停的比例與人數。2021年男性申請育嬰留停比例，與2020年相比增加1.5個百分點，為19.7%；2022年男性申請育嬰留停比例，則再提升5.5個百分點，比例達25.2%，意味著每四名育嬰留停的人裡，就有一名男性。","以人數來看，2022年育嬰留職停薪津貼初次核付件數約9.9萬件中，有超過2.5萬件為男性申請，人數也是有史以來最高。不過女性申請7.4萬件、占比74.8%，比例仍高於男性。","★問題1：","請問部長，依照你的認知，一般來說，當家中有育兒需求，都是由男方還是女方，誰來請假照顧孩子？","根據婦女團體的觀察，2022年中疫情升溫、不少幼托機構停班停課，以及2021年育嬰留職停薪規定放寬、津貼提高（薪資替代率上升），都可能是促使爸爸請假育兒的關鍵。當薪資替代率提高、職場更平等且友善家庭，爸爸才可能更「敢請假」，部長，你認為呢？","因為如果薪資替代率低，男性所得、升遷機會普遍又較高於女性，家庭可能出於整體收入、未來升遷機會等考量，社會上大部分還是會由女性請育嬰假。","★問題2：","請問部長，政府政策的大方向，如果想讓台灣家務分工更平等、父母都能放心請假育兒，應該怎麼進行，才有可能達成？","根據婦女團體的研究指出，除了職場、社會文化需要改變，政策上，應以「實質薪資」計算育嬰留停的八成薪水津貼，而非現行以投保薪資計算；此外，國外研究發現，更彈性、可以小時或天數來計算的彈性育嬰假，能夠提高男性請假育兒的意願，也是台灣可以參考的作法。","所以為了鼓勵民間企業，部長，是否認為由國營企業或財團法人機構先行示範？部長是否願意會同經濟部或財政部、交通部等能夠居中協調由台電、中油、台糖、台水、臺灣菸酒和中華郵政、中華電信等國營企業，來率先行試辦？"],["委員黃珊珊書面質詢：","休假看的到用不到，勞動部要當送子鳥而不是鴕鳥","一、家長在生育相關的請假上，從孩子出生後便會依序面臨三大挑戰，能否妥善應對這些挑戰，將強烈影響生養子女的意願：","(一)小孩滿6個月前，大多家庭會選擇由親人親自照顧，而小家庭則必需考量照顧者是否能於此期間辦理留職停薪，否則即只能選擇離職。考量到婦女不想要有小孩的原因之首，即為「經濟負擔太重」，\n則能否避免離職造成收入損失、順利辦理保有8成收入的留職停薪，即為影響生養意願之重點。","(二)小孩滿6個月至滿2歲前，由於留職停薪之津貼僅6個月，且小孩已渡過最為脆弱亟需照顧的階段，辦理留職停薪之親職照顧者多會選擇回歸職場，尋求托嬰服務接手照顧工作。而據研究指出，需將送托每名兒童的托育費用控制於家戶可支配所得15%以下，才能增加家長生養第2名子女之意願，進而達到促進生育率之政策效果。\n因此，家長是否預期能夠順利取得平價之（準）公托服務，將會是影響生養意願之重點。","(三)小孩滿2歲後，主要的請假需求則來自於較為臨時之疾病等家庭照顧需求，以及參與小孩就讀學校活動等家庭陪伴需求。然而，依據勞動部今年最新公布之調查，同意勞工請「家庭照顧假」之公司亦不到8成。","二、行政院主計總處調查指出，台灣主要承擔親職照顧責任的女性，勞動參與率的高峰竟然落在25-29歲，之後便一路下降（相較之下，男性勞參率的高峰落在35-39歲）；\n反觀申請育嬰留職停薪之受僱者，請假期滿後離開職場的比例僅不到10%。\n可見我國親職照顧仍帶來離職壓力，然而家長申請育嬰留職停薪之比例並不高，2023年初次核付津貼的件數僅9.7萬件，\n相比於同年新生兒數量13.5萬人，意即每個新生兒僅有約0.72位家長申請育嬰留職停薪（但通常會有2位家長）。","Q1勞動部過往均強調育嬰留職停薪申請件數逐年上升、男性比例創新高，然而目前於全體新生兒家長的申請比例上依然低落，尚未能有效應對「離職與生養子女間的兩難」。面對受僱者在實務上不願或無法申請育嬰留職停薪的困境，勞動部難道只能溫情喊話企業？請勞動部說明受僱者申請育嬰留職停薪的政策目標比例與推動方式。","三、截至111年底公共化及準公共托育服務的整體服務供給涵蓋率為31.88%，\n然而卻有嚴重的區域不均問題，南投、雲林、嘉義等縣市的涵蓋率甚至低於15%，代表這些縣市裡，每7個2歲以下的小孩就有6個沒辦法享受到平價的托育服務。而公托的不足，也間接影響女性的勞動參與率，台灣2歲以下幼兒的「家外送托率」僅19.88%，遠低於OECD平均的36%，比較各縣市的「公托涵蓋率」與「家外送托率」，兩者的相關係數高達0.995。意即台灣仍需積極擴大不足且不均的（準）公托涵蓋率，方能有效拉抬家外送托率、降低家庭對於生養小孩的預期經濟損失（高額托育花費或離職照顧之收入損失），進而提高促進生育的目標。","Q2勞動部的調查指出，員工規模100人以上事業單位有設立托兒服務機構或提供托兒措施的比例僅有70.4%；\n然而依據《性別平等工作法》第23條，雇用受僱者一百人以上之雇主「應」提供托兒設施或適當之托兒措施，是「必需」而非「鼓勵」。請問勞動部，在台灣缺乏平價托育供給的狀況下，《性別平等工作法》第23條卻缺乏相關罰則與強制力，勞動部有何實務作為？是否認同有修法之必要？","（依衛福部社家署提供資料製圖）","四、在請假的彈性上，有逾76%的受僱者認為認為應放寬以日或小時彈性使用育嬰留職停薪。\n事實上，不僅育嬰留職停薪有此需求，依目前《性別工作平等法》規定家庭照顧假併事假日數計算，對部分受僱者而言是「有假不好用」、「有假不敢請」；應增訂放寬至「小時」為單位的「親職假」，以方便家長出席學校親職日、處理兒童突發狀況等，友善勞工育兒需求。讓休假具有彈性、保障勞工能同時兼顧家庭，不用陷入家庭與工作多頭燒的天人交戰。","Q3請問勞動部是否贊同，包含育嬰留職停薪、家庭照顧假、生理假、陪產檢及陪產假、產（檢）假等各種生育相關假別，應放寬至以以日或小時彈性使用？以及增訂放寬至小時為單位之「親職假」？"],["委員陳菁徽書面質詢：","案由：本會委員陳菁徽，有鑑於今（113）年4月3日上午，台灣東部海域發生芮氏規模7.2大地震，除造成花蓮地區災情嚴外，全台各地大眾運輸工具亦因為搖晃劇烈停止。根據勞動部現行（74）台內勞字第351447號函：「未備有交通工具之事業單位員工搭乘其他交通工具上班，途中若發生不可歸責於員工之事由因而遲到，除經雇主查明有虛偽表示者外，應不視為遲到或曠職，至工資是否照給，若事業單位工作規則或勞動契約有規定者，從其規定；若無規定者，應由勞資雙方自行協商。」依此函釋，勞工因交通工具停擺無法抵達，恐會因雇主之要求，被迫請事假。","然而，又根據「天然災害發生事業單位勞工出勤管理及工資給付要點」，天然災害發生時（後），若勞工確因颱風、洪水、地震等因素阻塞交通致延遲到工或未能出勤時，雇主不得視為曠工、遲到或強迫勞工以事假或其他假別處理，且不得強迫勞工補行工作、扣發全勤獎金、解僱或為其他不利之處分。相較之下，現有法令對於天災事件發生後之勞工權益保護較為周全，除不得視為曠工、遲到外，更規定不得強迫以勞工以事假處理。","無論係天災無法到班，或因交通工具停擺，皆係不可歸責於勞工的不可抗力因素，本於同一法理，也不應讓因交通工具阻滯而難以到班勞工承受被迫請假的風險，且在勞資雙方權力關係往往不對等的情況下，「由勞資雙方自行協商」結果恐怕只是勞工必須吞下資方的要求，被迫將無法到班轉換成事假，犧牲一年僅有14天的事假，對勞工權利保障實有不足，爰要求勞動部研擬修改現行法規、函釋，規定因交通工具阻滯而無法到班者，也應比照天災情況，明定雇主不得強迫勞工以事假或其他假別處理，以保障勞工權益。"],["委員蘇清泉書面質詢：","勞動部是否注意到，勞工擔憂如果繼續請育嬰假的話，會不會引來同事的側目？突顯職場勞工育嬰假與同事代理業務，造成的職場緊張。","請育嬰假是勞工合法權利，但是公司站在妳這邊嗎？就現行法規而言，請育嬰假和申請育嬰留職停薪津貼都需要雇主蓋章同意，請問勞動部，是否思考過，育嬰假是勞工權利，為何還要僱主同意？","甚至有人資主管就要求過請育嬰假勞工，同時簽自願離職書，否則就不准請育嬰假。這樣的法規根本無助於改善勞工的權益，尤其在少子化的台灣，勞動部是否注意到該問題？應該如何改善？","雇主同意育嬰假後，勞保年資一年以上可再申請6個月平均月投保薪資60%的育嬰津貼，但是許多人的投保薪資與每月領到的薪水卻相去甚遠，導致實際領到的津貼，對於往後生活根本是杯水車薪。請問勞動部該如何改善此一政策？","然而一般的情況，勞動部是否統計過，長達兩年的留職停薪育嬰假，真正請好請滿的比例有多少？（會後請提供本席資料）是否提出申請的人並不多？有些女性上班族私下表示，現在大環境景氣不好，努力保住工作已不容易。該政策能否落實，對女性上班族而言，無異是緣木求魚。請問勞動部是否注意到此一政策困境？該如何解決？","育兒需求零碎且多變，應完整照顧到子女滿八歲，勞動部的政策是否與現實脫節？","育嬰假的名稱與概念也應再翻轉，因為育兒不只嬰幼兒時期，當孩子送托保母、就讀幼兒園、國小低年級上半天班的各階段，仍有照顧需求，對應實際需求，請問勞動部，育嬰假是否也該改名為「育兒假」？","育嬰假為什麼不能以「小時」請？","據勞動部2020年育嬰留職停薪期滿復職關懷調查，問及「育嬰留職停薪期滿，未返回原單位的主要原因」？撇除因為家庭因素自願離職者，有14%的女性和13%的男性，未回原單位的原因是「期待從事工時較短或較彈性的工作」；同樣各有10%的男性及女性，未回原單位的原因是「期待轉換離家近的工作」。台灣的育嬰假制度對勞資雙方都不夠友善，塊狀的請假天數，使員工必須育兒工作二選一，選擇育兒，等於中斷就業在家全職育兒。雇主擔心工作崗位人力替代問題，員工擔心長期中斷工作後的復職問題，員工之間更容易對彼此感到抱歉。對此，請問勞動部難道都沒有注意到嗎？","若今天育嬰假更彈性，前述加起來4成多的人，不必離開職場，只要透過育嬰假制度的調整，就可以緩衝上下班與接送托育的時間，企業將可留下更多珍貴且熟習原職場的勞動力。請問部長，是否有注意到勞工的需求？","最後，我認為，育嬰假彈性化早已是國際趨勢，瑞典是世界上首先實施育嬰假的國家，更被聯合國報告點名，育嬰假時間最具彈性。如果採取彈性育嬰假將會是僱主與勞工的雙贏，只要勞工每天晚一兩個小時上班，早一兩個小時下班，就能夠解決多數上班族的育嬰需求，希望勞動部對此能改善相關政策法規，共創僱主與勞工的雙贏。"],["委員陳冠廷書面質詢：","一、放寬婚假認定","（勞動部）部長，我想隨著社會觀念的推進，婚育脫鉤是趨勢，也有很多團體在進行倡議，我很期待可以透過這次的機會繼續凝聚社會共識。","不過婚姻在目前的社會價值下，經常被視為一個可以推進生育計畫的因素。因此如果我們放寬制度上對婚假的認定，讓新婚夫婦或伴侶可以擁有更多彈性使用假期的權利，由國家來營造更多友善婚假、生育的制度，我想社會都會正面看待。","部長，根據目前婚假的認定，依照民法第982條，是以登記日為準。再以公務人員請假規則第3條第1項第3款、教師請假規則第3條第1項第3款或是勞動部在2015年10月7日勞動條3字第1040130270號令的函釋來看，目前公務人員、教師、勞工請婚假是原則上以結婚之日前十日起三個月內請畢；但如果經機關、學校或雇主同意，可延長至一年內請畢。","部長，目前法規認定登記三個月內要使用婚假是否有特殊考量？如果沒有，我認為基於保障勞動權益、營造友善環境的情況下，應該要修法把經雇主同意的字眼拿掉，直接讓勞工可以在登記一年內，都可以選擇日期請婚假。","甚至，如果有特殊原因，像是疫情、傳統習俗，先登記後宴客，中間超過一年，我認為應要增加條文，讓勞工可以持結婚證書、喜帖雙證明向雇主商量申請有薪婚假，而不受一年時間限制。","部長，是不是可以朝這樣修法的方向來研議？部長，我很肯定勞動部在疫情期間曾經函釋受疫情影響的新人，可以自指揮中心解散後一年內都可以請婚假，但這個有「雇主同意」的前提才能延長。也就是說如果雇主不同意寬限期，員工單方面申請卻被雇主拒絕也是白搭。","部長，我希望政府可以帶頭營造對勞工請婚假的友善環境，同時也請雇主們多體諒這段期間新婚員工的請假權益，給予寬限期。結婚是人生重要大事，多數人一定也都希望能和另一半創造美好的蜜月旅行回憶，進而思考未來的人生規劃，這對社會都會有正面影響，我們政府一定要透過多元支持勞工的就業權益，進而鼓勵年輕人敢婚、敢生。","二、父親彈性育嬰假誘因","（勞動部）部長，行政院年初發布的「2024年性別圖像」顯示，政府在2021年加碼補助育嬰留職停薪津貼，讓留停期間的薪資替代率，可以達到平均月投保薪資的8成後，2022年男性申請比例達25.2%，比2020年的18.2%提升7個百分點，創歷年新高。我很肯定政府透過政策鼓勵，讓男性也認知到只要家庭有需要，也隨時可以換上圍裙，回家當「奶爸」、當「煮夫」。","我想，過去因為制度不友善，造成現今台灣年輕男性與父親的情感疏離，所以輪到他們有機會做爸爸時，很多人無論如何也不願再重蹈父親的覆轍，那麼政府就應該要積極提供無論是假期的協助或親職教育的進修，增強爸爸在照顧小孩上的技能與信心，而不是經歷挫折，只是讓自己淪為「幫忙」的角色。","我要強調，愈早把爸爸推上前線，媽媽愈有機會喘息，進而發展生活與事業的平衡。讓爸爸要建立與嬰兒的安全依附關係，提供彈性假期，像是提供「單日」計算的機制，製造讓父親與嬰兒單獨相處非常重要。","部長，理想很豐滿，但要提供民間足夠的誘因才有辦法與現實滾動並進，目前勞動部有什麼獎勵機制提升資方提供彈性的育嬰制度？","部長，我希望勞動部能儘速釐清現場實務狀況，儘速調整作為，讓社會對新手爸媽有更多支持的力量。"],["主席：現在作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者從期所定。","本日會議到此結束，現在休息，星期三上午九時繼續開會。","休息（12時59分）","� 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,752 --> 00:00:19,533\n好,謝謝主席。慎重歡迎部長。請許部長。好,部長你也會留在我心中。\n\n2\n00:00:24,321 --> 00:00:43,989\n我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些\n\n3\n00:00:45,434 --> 00:01:08,953\n你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有到是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月\n\n4\n00:01:10,574 --> 00:01:25,627\n就可能6月1日如果到12月底就剩下7個月應該這麼說嘛因為試辦期間也不要太長我們其實就是看但是也沒有所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請我們是調查意願歡迎大家來參加報名其實是4月有改嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:34,218 --> 00:01:53,951\n你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1日收到的是63家反正後續還會陸續收到不是啊,你們原本截止日是4月1日嗎?有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?\n\n6\n00:01:54,946 --> 00:02:23,691\n你們現在延後事辦計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底對現在馬上決定了對可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些\n\n7\n00:02:24,622 --> 00:02:25,703\n就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊\n\n8\n00:02:41,186 --> 00:02:41,346\n市部門50幾家\n\n9\n00:03:01,814 --> 00:03:29,438\n我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了\n\n10\n00:03:33,742 --> 00:03:42,810\n因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽\n\n11\n00:03:48,234 --> 00:03:53,857\n你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做\n\n12\n00:04:08,245 --> 00:04:35,580\n呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁\n\n13\n00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,240\n這一個原則有這麼多彈數這已經不叫做原則了吧對不對\n\n14\n00:05:04,667 --> 00:05:10,808\n我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數\n\n15\n00:05:29,652 --> 00:05:49,739\n所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了\n\n16\n00:05:51,860 --> 00:06:15,955\n所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是\n\n17\n00:06:16,553 --> 00:06:32,387\n用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛\n\n18\n00:06:33,027 --> 00:06:47,600\n但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛\n\n19\n00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:48,600\n第二件事情是這樣嘛齁\n\n20\n00:07:11,254 --> 00:07:11,274\n這個違反\n\n21\n00:07:38,829 --> 00:07:57,355\n對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半\n\n22\n00:07:58,675 --> 00:08:26,221\n你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題\n\n23\n00:08:27,621 --> 00:08:55,650\n這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解\n\n24\n00:08:57,530 --> 00:09:14,599\n包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後\n\n25\n00:09:20,923 --> 00:09:44,300\n不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難\n\n26\n00:09:46,561 --> 00:10:11,739\n他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室\n\n27\n00:10:13,833 --> 00:10:28,521\n黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情\n\n28\n00:10:42,123 --> 00:11:10,112\n所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?\n\n29\n00:11:10,772 --> 00:11:37,448\n好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊\n\n30\n00:11:38,348 --> 00:11:53,160\n要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧\n\n31\n00:11:53,960 --> 00:12:10,771\n像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講\n\n32\n00:12:11,791 --> 00:12:32,402\n謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒\n\n33\n00:12:33,643 --> 00:12:59,198\n我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝\n\n34\n00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,101\n好謝謝劉建國委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6752\t19533\t好,謝謝主席。慎重歡迎部長。請許部長。好,部長你也會留在我心中。\n24321\t43989\t我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些\n45434\t68953\t你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有到是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月\n70574\t85627\t就可能6月1日如果到12月底就剩下7個月應該這麼說嘛因為試辦期間也不要太長我們其實就是看但是也沒有所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請我們是調查意願歡迎大家來參加報名其實是4月有改嗎?\n94218\t113951\t你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1日收到的是63家反正後續還會陸續收到不是啊,你們原本截止日是4月1日嗎?有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?\n114946\t143691\t你們現在延後事辦計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊 這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底 對現在馬上決定了對 可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些\n144622\t145703\t就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊\n161186\t161346\t市部門50幾家\n181814\t209438\t我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了\n213742\t222810\t因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽\n228234\t233857\t你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做\n248245\t275580\t呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁\n276480\t277240\t這一個原則有這麼多彈數 這已經不叫做原則了吧 對不對\n304667\t310808\t我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數\n329652\t349739\t所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了\n351860\t375955\t所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是\n376553\t392387\t用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛\n393027\t407600\t但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛\n408080\t408600\t第二件事情是這樣嘛齁\n431254\t431274\t這個違反\n458829\t477355\t對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半\n478675\t506221\t你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題\n507621\t535650\t這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解\n537530\t554599\t包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後\n560923\t584300\t不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難\n586561\t611739\t他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室\n613833\t628521\t黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情\n642123\t670112\t所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?\n670772\t697448\t好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊\n698348\t713160\t要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧\n713960\t730771\t像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講\n731791\t752402\t謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒\n753643\t779198\t我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝\n782600\t783101\t好 謝謝劉建國委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。慎重歡迎部長。請許部長。好,部長你也會留在我心中。\n我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些\n你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有到是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月\n就可能6月1日如果到12月底就剩下7個月應該這麼說嘛因為試辦期間也不要太長我們其實就是看但是也沒有所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請我們是調查意願歡迎大家來參加報名其實是4月有改嗎?\n你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1日收到的是63家反正後續還會陸續收到不是啊,你們原本截止日是4月1日嗎?有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?\n你們現在延後事辦計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊 這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底 對現在馬上決定了對 可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些\n就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊\n市部門50幾家\n我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了\n因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽\n你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做\n呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁\n這一個原則有這麼多彈數 這已經不叫做原則了吧 對不對\n我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數\n所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了\n所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是\n用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛\n但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛\n第二件事情是這樣嘛齁\n這個違反\n對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半\n你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題\n這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解\n包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後\n不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難\n他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室\n黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情\n所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?\n好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊\n要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧\n像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講\n謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒\n我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝\n好 謝謝劉建國委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.752 --> 00:19.533\n好,謝謝主席。慎重歡迎部長。請許部長。好,部長你也會留在我心中。\n\n00:24.321 --> 00:43.989\n我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些\n\n00:45.434 --> 01:08.953\n你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有到是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月\n\n01:10.574 --> 01:25.627\n就可能6月1日如果到12月底就剩下7個月應該這麼說嘛因為試辦期間也不要太長我們其實就是看但是也沒有所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請我們是調查意願歡迎大家來參加報名其實是4月有改嗎?\n\n01:34.218 --> 01:53.951\n你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1日收到的是63家反正後續還會陸續收到不是啊,你們原本截止日是4月1日嗎?有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?\n\n01:54.946 --> 02:23.691\n你們現在延後事辦計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底對現在馬上決定了對可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些\n\n02:24.622 --> 02:25.703\n就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊\n\n02:41.186 --> 02:41.346\n市部門50幾家\n\n03:01.814 --> 03:29.438\n我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了\n\n03:33.742 --> 03:42.810\n因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽\n\n03:48.234 --> 03:53.857\n你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做\n\n04:08.245 --> 04:35.580\n呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁\n\n04:36.480 --> 04:37.240\n這一個原則有這麼多彈數這已經不叫做原則了吧對不對\n\n05:04.667 --> 05:10.808\n我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數\n\n05:29.652 --> 05:49.739\n所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了\n\n05:51.860 --> 06:15.955\n所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是\n\n06:16.553 --> 06:32.387\n用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛\n\n06:33.027 --> 06:47.600\n但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛\n\n06:48.080 --> 06:48.600\n第二件事情是這樣嘛齁\n\n07:11.254 --> 07:11.274\n這個違反\n\n07:38.829 --> 07:57.355\n對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半\n\n07:58.675 --> 08:26.221\n你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題\n\n08:27.621 --> 08:55.650\n這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解\n\n08:57.530 --> 09:14.599\n包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後\n\n09:20.923 --> 09:44.300\n不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難\n\n09:46.561 --> 10:11.739\n他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室\n\n10:13.833 --> 10:28.521\n黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情\n\n10:42.123 --> 11:10.112\n所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?\n\n11:10.772 --> 11:37.448\n好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊\n\n11:38.348 --> 11:53.160\n要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧\n\n11:53.960 --> 12:10.771\n像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講\n\n12:11.791 --> 12:32.402\n謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒\n\n12:33.643 --> 12:59.198\n我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝\n\n13:02.600 --> 13:03.101\n好謝謝劉建國委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.752,"end":19.533,"text":"好,謝謝主席。慎重歡迎部長。請許部長。好,部長你也會留在我心中。"},{"start":24.321,"end":43.989,"text":"我們要辦理這個試辦彈性的育嬰留子停薪目前就是要在5月以後來試辦到12月底施行期間我們可能會延後因為有相關的配套等等我們需要認為再徵詢大家意見所以大概會延後一些為什麼要延後一些"},{"start":45.434,"end":68.953,"text":"你到12月底才剩下8個月你已經的收集需要一些時間因為委員很多的指教我也認為有到是因為今天質詢之後沒有沒有上一次上一次我們公布那個原則以後很多委員認為我們那個應該要讓整個原則更有誘因然後讓大家更好使用願意來因為這東西所以你們要延後什麼時候原本是5月1號沒有錯可能會延後一個月"},{"start":70.574,"end":85.627,"text":"就可能6月1日如果到12月底就剩下7個月應該這麼說嘛因為試辦期間也不要太長我們其實就是看但是也沒有所以你們公文是3月15日就發給各公司單位來邀請我們是調查意願歡迎大家來參加報名其實是4月有改嗎?"},{"start":94.218,"end":113.951,"text":"你要延後有再改嗎?這個其實陸續還會再收,我們到4月1日收到的是63家反正後續還會陸續收到不是啊,你們原本截止日是4月1日嗎?有沒有在延後截止日嗎?如果沒有延後那就是63家嘛那你要延後到什麼時候嘛?"},{"start":114.946,"end":143.691,"text":"你們現在延後事辦計畫那你的截止日要不要延後嘛可以啊 這沒有問題要延到什麼時候嘛我們大概就是到這個月月底吧本來是4月1號我們就延到4月底4月底 對現在馬上決定了對 可以這個因為原則就是業務單位這邊如果作業可以不是因為你如果到4月以後是報名截止日是六三加我是覺得這樣收到的啦可能還有啦因為那個郵件可能有些"},{"start":144.622,"end":145.703,"text":"就像你們的報告裡面寫了很多歡迎歡迎歡迎啊"},{"start":161.186,"end":161.346,"text":"市部門50幾家"},{"start":181.814,"end":209.438,"text":"我是不是說比例啦?你們掌握的比例是公部門居多還是事部門居多?事部門多事部門多過於公部門是這樣?對那就不錯喔這樣的政策要去形成之前的事辦計畫那就會產生效果喔如果是公部門大過於事部門那我會覺得很大的討論空間嘛那如果是事部門大過於公部門那當然就那你幹嘛再延後那就奇怪了"},{"start":213.742,"end":222.81,"text":"因為之前有委員建議說我們其實在增加幼嬰或許會有更多人有意願所以我想這個也有道理所以我們其實4月2日才找起我們有時候美式委員有時候建議也不一定會聽"},{"start":228.234,"end":233.857,"text":"你們都聽哪幾個委員?沒有啦,我們建議的委員都會聽啦有道理的我們都會來參考啦有些委員的事也的確他擔心說如果我們沒有他是擔心說我們這樣是不是沒有意願要做"},{"start":248.245,"end":275.58,"text":"呃這樣故意弄一個不是很完整的原則我想也不要引起大家疑慮所以委員的建議的部分包括幼嬰啊包括我剛我就問出一個重點嘛如果說你們到截止日是事部門大櫃公部門而且比例還高過很多基本上那就是事部門也可以可以去認同而不是說因為是你們要推然後公部門就必須要很勉強去配合你們所以你們在報告裡面都要用歡迎歡迎歡迎的字眼然後很多的但書但書但書我還擔心你們會產生淡淡的哀愁"},{"start":276.48,"end":277.24,"text":"這一個原則有這麼多彈數 這已經不叫做原則了吧 對不對"},{"start":304.667,"end":310.808,"text":"我無意挑戰這一個人的協話不過這樣的規範好像有點奇怪我們1月的時候有召集相關的工商團體有開會他們都認為說試辦OK但是認為說不要一開始太多的限制所以讓他們多一點空間所以我們才會多出這麼多的彈數"},{"start":329.652,"end":349.739,"text":"所以我們現在有很多委員講完之後就是說怎麼是在5日前那5日前那大家每一個家長都必須要有通靈才知道4月3日的5日前會發生大地震對不對然後每一個家長都必須要了解到什麼時候可能會有殘病毒的肌體感染所以都要在5日前就要通靈了"},{"start":351.86,"end":375.955,"text":"所以你們才會歡迎有低於不入的也可以提出然後幾個小時的也可以提出是不是這樣是對啊就是因為這是自願性所以盡量空間大一點啦我們就是定一個原則性但是不是那麼強制啦所以會有彈數會比較多看起來是對委員講的就會覺得怎麼那麼多彈數而且就是"},{"start":376.553,"end":392.387,"text":"用意就是讓大家盡量能夠更多的彈性更多我們要辦這個示範計畫勞動部最主要還是要去反映一個真實的狀態嘛對不對我們才知道這個政策是不是可長可久是不是對勞工真的是一大福音嘛"},{"start":393.027,"end":407.6,"text":"但是如果說只是一個豁免的保惠還是能力的媒合的優先的服務等等等在就像剛才部長講的很多人就提出沒有更好的幼嬰他為什麼要優惠勞動部現在訂出來這些相關的規範他就不需要嘛"},{"start":408.08,"end":408.6,"text":"第二件事情是這樣嘛齁"},{"start":431.254,"end":431.274,"text":"這個違反"},{"start":458.829,"end":477.355,"text":"對違反了好然後再來再看下一則勞動部在4月3日的早上9點就發這個新聞稿很棒然後你看4月3日11點52分這又是另外一個群組裡面今天直到同仁要請假一小時全請減半"},{"start":478.675,"end":506.221,"text":"你再看下一頁沒辦法這是另外一個群組沒辦法這就是規定我也遲到了甚至於全請不會扣辦是全扣但也是沒辦法那下面又另外一個群組這不是很正常嗎餐飲遇到颱風天也是要叫自己想幫我去上班那遲到了也是要扣薪正常行業這樣就哀哀叫當颱風天或是其他天災導致停班停課時有沒有想到餐飲和服務業要面臨這些問題"},{"start":507.621,"end":535.65,"text":"這是另外一個群組部長怎麼看這個事情報告委員有兩個問題剛剛那個群組的line有可能在我們新聞稿還沒有發布之前他們就先那個但是後來我們那個有說明之後我想他們應該要遵守法律的規範那第二個當然有些可能不了解那我覺得我們在法令宣導上要更加強針對這些雇主端來讓他們了解"},{"start":537.53,"end":554.599,"text":"包括另外就是說如果真的權益有受損他們沒有改變的話可以來申訴啦齁那申訴的話各地方政府都會來處理那如果還是還是這樣子你都沒有相度我的資料你們是9點公佈的這個群組大概是11點52分我們公佈沒錯啊他有沒有看到也是一個問題啦齁那如果是11點52分我們公佈以後"},{"start":560.923,"end":584.3,"text":"不一定是勞工看到嘛最起碼僱主也要看到嘛所以僱主看到你們這一張好像也視若無睹然後你們連一個這個通報的專線都沒有只是一個這個新聞稿的聯絡人叫做李先生他留行動還有手機如果像這麼多者的情況之下這個李先生可能要待這個單位待很久我相信也有困難"},{"start":586.561,"end":611.739,"text":"他會很辛苦他壓力會很大他會申請彈性的那個運鏡貼對啊你新聞稿出來了啊連一個要通報的專線都沒有啊上面還寫一個主管的名字叫黃市長黃市長你後面要再括號你的行動啊你才可以分擔李仁隆先生的這樣的一個壓力吧對啊因為我的辦公室找了這三者我可能被委員辦公室"},{"start":613.833,"end":628.521,"text":"黃偉你報告是應該也有嘛對不對我們就要打電話給市長打電話給李先生來反映這個事情怎麼僱主到現在不曉得這個事情怎麼僱主還敢幹這種事情怎麼讓勞工還有在這麼大地震大家都舉國都在難過的過程裡面他們為了他們的這個權錢要被扣東扣西還在思考這些事情還會遇到這種事情"},{"start":642.123,"end":670.112,"text":"所以你們應該是...應該是...難道你還是優於雇主、優於法規的心態歡迎?沒有啦,不會啦。這個...這個報告委員,如果他們還是執意這樣做,那勞工一定可以來申訴啦。不管打1955或是地方政府勞工局也都會有專線來處理。我希望...我希望部長你就聽到我把這些資料提供給你嘛,對不對?是不是給我更強硬的一個清稿,然後把1955你就留上去吧?"},{"start":670.772,"end":697.448,"text":"好,那事實上司長跟李先生才會可能可長可久嘛以後我交代同仁啦,像這些都要把我們195專線寫在上面啦讓勞工都能夠了解好,最後一件事情啦,主席這個也蠻重要的齁這個大地震也震出很多公關問題我相信這個媒體報導已經幾乎每天都在報奇怪,有地震也沒有掉,沒地震也掉那地震掉了更多,沒地震的掉得更少嗎?那倒也未必啊"},{"start":698.348,"end":713.16,"text":"要不要勞動部署這邊趕快跟國土署然後跟地方政府趕快的看著要怎麼去做這些事情的營業不然就在這樣一個高空的吊壁經常在吊我覺得太恐怖了吧"},{"start":713.96,"end":730.771,"text":"像你看去年的5月10號是在台中捷運嘛已經造成一死十傷那同年的7月10月28號在新北的林口也是這個吊壁的斷裂意外砸到了公車亭還有公車剛好沒有人對不對?所以你要講跟你講"},{"start":731.791,"end":752.402,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這個去年兩件案子是跟地震沒有關係這是地震全國七個塔掉確實有一些狀況我們立即給它停工他們後面要拆除或調整當然依照安全標準來處置那這個災害發生之後我們要請各地方的交易機構特別提醒有塔掉的要先做自動檢查OK才可以繼續做這都我們做後面就全面展開了謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":753.643,"end":779.198,"text":"我想不是因為只有單純地震這個原因啦對不對因為從去年開始其實有些事是可能沒有這麼嚴重他也不一定見報嘛所以我是覺得是不是署這邊要去會同國土署還有地方政府加強嘛因為現在的建築案件坦白講比照往年來講都是非常非常的成長嘛所以我是覺得這種事情真的不能輕忽啦好不好好謝謝"},{"start":782.6,"end":783.101,"text":"好 謝謝劉建國委員"}]}}}}