{"id":150942,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150942","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e00f9f940d20858ec2d211db49933aca9f8ba9b0039caa7a6b12e2d314c2879d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:08:13 - 09:23:24","影片長度":"00:15:11","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":911,"end_time":"2024-04-10T09:23:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T09:08:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":94,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時8分）謝謝主席，麻煩請林次長。"],["主席：好，有請林次。"],["林次長明裕：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長早。次長，我看到今天部長跟教育及文化委員會請假的理由是去勘災，請教他是去勘哪邊的災？"],["林次長明裕：他是到國立臺灣圖書館，還有所屬的館所。"],["洪委員孟楷：照理講，花蓮地震到現在也已經一個禮拜的時間，勘災很重要沒有錯，但是我們今天審查相關的幼兒教保公共化也非常重要，我覺得奇怪，部長怎麼會沒有來，反而讓次長來代打。同一時間我們又看到現在賴清德總統當選人正在宣布新閣揆，潘部長沒有被留任，所以他可能接下來都不來了，有可能嗎？"],["林次長明裕：部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關心。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然啊！幼兒教保公共化當然是既定的行程，而且這是已經形成的政策，應該要持續推動，這也關係到全臺2,350萬人的這些小朋友，結果部長今天沒有來，是部長不重視這樣的政策嗎？"],["林次長明裕：這個業務部長有充分交辦，所以也請委員放心。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以你講的都可以說了算就對了？"],["林次長明裕：我儘量。"],["洪委員孟楷：請教次長，勘災重要，現在全臺灣有515所學校受損，受損金額超過10億元，教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助？"],["林次長明裕：因為東華大學的部分受損非常嚴重，初估經費需要20億，至於各國中以下所需要的經費，目前還在估算中。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛說東華大學需要20億？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：又超過了，之前新聞報導是5億，花蓮女中是2.2億，所以全臺差不多需要10億，結果剛剛次長一開始就講會超過20億，全臺有515所，現在到底有沒有統整這一次受損金額多少錢？"],["林次長明裕：各高中以下的學校，我請國教署署長來答復。"],["洪委員孟楷：簡單回應，現在你們有沒有掌握了？"],["彭署長富源：報告委員，現在等各縣市報來，大概在今天下午5時以前做最後收網，數字到時候再跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在掌握的狀況是什麼？"],["彭署長富源：關於現在掌握的狀況，我們現在對於各縣市的情況補了將近6,200萬，這是救急的部分，所以4月8日開學沒有問題，大概只有西寶國小會移到富世國小處理，還有景美……"],["洪委員孟楷：我直接請教，明明媒體上面的報導是全臺超過10億元，東華大學差不多5億元的受損，結果剛剛次長講20億，資訊的落差到底在哪邊？"],["林次長明裕：沒有落差，我們有掌握最新的數據，像東華大學，我們今天下午會再去勘災，並且做比較精準的評估，他們前天送來的經費是19億2,280萬。"],["洪委員孟楷：這什麼代表？代表第一時間我們認為這個地震的影響可能沒有那麼嚴重，但實際上卻比想像的更嚴重。"],["林次長明裕：沒錯，委員關心的對。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果是這樣的話，全臺是不是只有515所學校受損，還是有可能超過？"],["林次長明裕：到今天下午會截止所有的通報數，但是目前委員所掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是媒體上的報導。我只問說，如果現在東華就20億，看起來花蓮女中是2.2億，可能更高……"],["林次長明裕：大概兩億多。"],["洪委員孟楷：其他學校整個加起來，全臺在這一波0403的大地震，你們會編列再跟行政院用專案預算來申請專案計畫，還是會排擠到今年原本的預算？"],["林次長明裕：依照過往公務預算的編列，行政院公共工程委員會會直接受理各地方政府提報各縣市學校所受災損的補助經費，所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。本席會特別提醒，原本每年都會有一些相關的工程，不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建，或者是相關的一些經費，因為0403地震確實是天災，意外造成很多的學校受損，我們當然要以安全維護為第一優先，而且也必須要最快速地處理，有危樓的地方趕快可以補齊。"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：等一下我也會提出一個臨時提案，要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取0403的專案費用，針對這一次0403地震之後，全臺學校報出來的受損狀況，尤其剛剛說今天下午下班前會彙整好，也請今天下午下班前將彙整好的資料給本委員會各委員一份，這樣可以嗎？"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員關心。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，但重點是要積極爭取啦！我們今天給你的這個是讓你回去有所本，讓你回去可以拿此說是委員，不分藍綠、朝野大家共同支持要回去跟行政院好好爭取，好不好？","再來次長，我現在要確認一下，現在所謂的準公共幼兒園，也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長時就已經力推的政策，推出6年以來，當然有一些負面的新聞，包括有違反師生比、學費超收等等，但是準公幼仍然被一般民眾大家所信賴。8月要進入第三期，三週前還有新的版本出來，但簽約條件不明，傳出有百家幼兒園會退場，結果現在真的出來之後，大約少了10家，可是也被外界認為是不是又偏袒業者，讓幼兒教保權大退步，到底這嚴重落差在哪邊？其中幾個部分，我就一一討論。","第一，現在公托師生比1比12是已經達到73%，這是在你今天的報告裡，對不對？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是準公幼希望能夠在1比12達標，結果沒有想到現在準公幼可以從114年再開始調降、115年逐步完成，也沒有說到底什麼時候要完成，所以會不會變成是兩套標準，一個是公幼，一個是準公幼，但是在準公幼的1比12好像遙遙無期，又被放寬了。"],["林次長明裕：115年。"],["洪委員孟楷：115年？"],["林次長明裕：差一年。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有，你現在的說法是逐步完成，有辦法在115年全面都完成嗎？"],["林次長明裕：在合約內會規範115年完成全部。"],["洪委員孟楷：合約會全面規範完成？"],["林次長明裕：是，如果它沒有辦法履約，它就……"],["洪委員孟楷：但這樣子是不是就已經跳票了，因為之前大家都希望準公幼跟公幼都一起在113年、114年的時候完成，是不是？"],["林次長明裕：先公，後準公，然後再私幼。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在的這個狀況，外界也會質疑這樣說跳票就跳票，要跳票的時候就跳票，會變成現在是要再簽約，本來是害怕有百家會退場，結果沒辦法……"],["林次長明裕：當時貴院也是希望漸進式完成。"],["洪委員孟楷：當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊！再來，之前已經有達成1比12的這些準公幼，你說提前達成有獎勵，現在獎勵辦法是什麼？"],["林次長明裕：好，獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在出來了嗎？"],["林次長明裕：有一個大概的範圍。"],["彭署長富源：現在如果達成的，可以依其規模給它15、20、25，連續給3年。"],["洪委員孟楷：萬元是不是？給一次？"],["彭署長富源：對，15萬元。"],["洪委員孟楷：這樣對於整個它的一個……"],["彭署長富源：15、20、25這樣，3年。"],["洪委員孟楷：你要給3年？"],["彭署長富源：連續3年。"],["洪委員孟楷：連續3年？"],["彭署長富源：對！達到者。"],["洪委員孟楷：反而是越往後達到的給越多啊！15、20、25。"],["彭署長富源：剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模，它拿15的，連續3年拿15。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在看起來，你去討論的時候，是不是很多的業者其實都覺得是杯水車薪，照理講如果要的話，應該是一視同仁，大家能夠達到1比12，大家就一起達到，反而是願意來配合教育部、相關單位的這一些人，相對來講是比較吃虧，1比12的這個比例其實對整個幼教的成本來講，當然是相對高，但是很多業者也認為既然當初已經有講114年要達到，那就大家一起達到，現在反而是有一個放寬的標準，你真的給予獎勵，其實是沒有很直接給予實際的獎勵，跟他們付出的成本其實是不符合比例的。次長，你怎麼看？"],["林次長明裕：委員觀察得非常入微，的確它如果提早達標，我們提早給它補助，補助的額度依其班級數來給定，當然小園給小額、大園給大額，提早達標提早給補助，還是不足以涵蓋它所付出的成本，但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示，提早達標提早補助，這個額度我看……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在辦法已經確定了嗎？"],["林次長明裕：已經到最後收尾的階段了，跟地方政府跟業者在做最後的確定就已經敲定了。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會確定？什麼時候最終方案會出來？現在是溝通的過程當中，我知道，當然大家都希望能夠有更優惠的條件，但是對於你們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來，你一定要給時間點，而且重點是在於之前已經喊出1比12，現在又讓外界覺得好像有跳票，這一次第三次的簽約，什麼時候辦法要出來？還是要拖過520，新任的教育部長上任？"],["彭署長富源：不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：不會，好，什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：3月29號公布了之後，方向就完全確定，剩下有一些細節，就如委員觀察到的，獎勵能不能夠再給予多一點，或是有些執行的細節，不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些些微的建議，在我們能協助的情況下，儘量能夠讓程序方便、讓補助能夠協助的更多，這個我們都在處理中，大概在4月一定會做確定，5、6月會做簽約所有的確定，現在也同時在進行說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天是4月10號。"],["彭署長富源：是！"],["洪委員孟楷：4月什麼時候？4月底以前一定會出來？"],["彭署長富源：一定會。"],["洪委員孟楷：4月底以前……"],["彭署長富源：甚至我們提前，在4月中以前連細節都能夠出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的專案報告，就是因為這個茲事體大，而且影響範圍很廣，所以在這個過程裡面，今天很多委員可能會就內容、細節的部分再去請教，請一定要聽到大家的意見再做最後調整。"],["彭署長富源：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：4月底以前一定出來，是不是？"],["彭署長富源：一定，是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：最後，我只再利用1分鐘，我裡面看到要監督準公幼，當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起啊！你說有監督準公幼，結果第三期的規定沒有看到實質的查核是什麼，新規定居然是要求院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平臺，上傳每天吃什麼點心、吃什麼午餐的照片，這樣就算監督嗎？我可不可以用兩句話來形容，這看起來像是紙上作業、打卡檢查，每天讓老師從幼兒園從照顧小朋友的角色，變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生、幫幼兒打卡照相，照相完之後上傳，老師是幼保員還是網紅？"],["林次長明裕：那個是每天吃的餐食、點心，國小、國中也都有。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我現在問的是，這樣就算是檢查嗎？如果你們現在的檢驗變成是讓老師拍照打卡、上傳，變成是網紅，沒有任何更積極主動的作為，照片能不能拍多張？能不能隨時上傳？有沒有抽查機制？有沒有檢驗機制？還是一個食物拍左邊、右邊、前面、後面，四張照片分四天傳？"],["林次長明裕：委員關心的是……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果你到最後還是推給一般的準公幼、一般的照顧員、一般的老師，然後用這種方式，到底老師是變什麼角色？第一，老師的角色到底是照顧兒童的角色，還是變成網紅的角色？再來，這不是就紙上談兵、打卡檢查嗎？變成鼓勵大家變成是網紅，會不會最後還變成是拍照比賽，哪一個幼兒園拍得比較漂亮？"],["林次長明裕：是，我想委員要求的是品質，而不是虛偽表面上的，我懂。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然，這當然啊！任何一個家長的要求都是如此，我相信今天來教育及文化委員會質詢的委員也都是如此，所以我們如果只看到你要監督的方式，我開宗明義就講，過去這幾年準公幼也是有一些社會的問題，而這些社會問題確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是不信任，但是對於一般的家長來講，他還是覺得相對收費比較便宜，選擇的問題嘛！既然教育部要做就應該把它做好，所以在這個部分我特別提出來，如果只是監督準公幼，結果居然是沒有實際的查核，沒有所謂抽查機制，只有上傳照片……"],["林次長明裕：實際查核是一定會有的。"],["洪委員孟楷：然後吃什麼點心、用什麼午餐，這樣子的方法算是查核嗎？"],["林次長明裕：點心的上傳是家長有時候會關心的。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，說實在的，我們這樣沒有對頻啦！"],["林次長明裕：我瞭解……"],["洪委員孟楷：家長關心啦！當然家長更關心說是不是有實質吃到營養的東西、是不是這個東西是名符其實，這才是重點，而不是到最後老師們變成是網紅……"],["林次長明裕：其他的部分我們也會查核……"],["洪委員孟楷：你的查核機制是不是再補充給我們所有的委員，讓我們瞭解你的查核機制到底是什麼……"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：你要怎麼去抽查，而不是只是放任到最後把責任丟給幼兒園所有的老師，讓老師變成是網紅打卡。"],["林次長明裕：我懂，實際上品質的提升是比較重要的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員。","在柯志恩召委質詢之前，先來確定一下議事錄。議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處？（無）沒有的話，議事錄就確定。","再來請柯志恩召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 876.119, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 876.119, \"end\": 876.74, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 876.74, \"end\": 876.92, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 876.92, \"end\": 877.1, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 877.1, \"end\": 877.44, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 877.44, \"end\": 877.76, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 877.76, \"end\": 878.882, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 878.882, \"end\": 879.042, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 879.042, \"end\": 879.222, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 879.222, \"end\": 879.722, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 879.722, \"end\": 879.862, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 879.862, \"end\": 880.043, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 880.043, \"end\": 880.303, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 880.303, \"end\": 880.503, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 880.503, \"end\": 880.703, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 880.703, \"end\": 880.883, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 880.883, \"end\": 880.963, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 880.963, \"end\": 881.324, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 881.324, \"end\": 881.824, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 881.824, \"end\": 882.065, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 882.065, \"end\": 882.525, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 882.525, \"end\": 882.685, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 882.685, \"end\": 882.705, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 884.609, \"end\": 884.769, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 884.769, \"end\": 884.929, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 884.929, \"end\": 885.069, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 885.069, \"end\": 885.209, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 885.209, \"end\": 885.289, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 885.289, \"end\": 885.309, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 885.309, \"end\": 885.449, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 885.449, \"end\": 885.729, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"柯\", \"start\": 885.729, \"end\": 885.789, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 885.789, \"end\": 885.809, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 885.809, \"end\": 886.03, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 886.03, \"end\": 886.33, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 886.33, \"end\": 886.35, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,189 --> 00:00:01,670\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請林次長。好,有請林次\n\n2\n00:00:20,163 --> 00:00:32,371\n市長早市長我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是\n\n3\n00:00:34,993 --> 00:00:52,150\n對那照理講因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間勘猜很重要沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼教幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪怎麼會部長沒有來反而讓次長來代打\n\n4\n00:00:53,832 --> 00:00:55,454\n部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊\n\n5\n00:01:09,174 --> 00:01:24,080\n所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來\n\n6\n00:01:25,695 --> 00:01:50,587\n是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要20億\n\n7\n00:01:51,747 --> 00:02:20,479\n那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了\n\n8\n00:02:22,230 --> 00:02:38,484\n報告委員現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8號開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理\n\n9\n00:02:46,511 --> 00:03:10,871\n我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是資訊落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬\n\n10\n00:03:12,813 --> 00:03:36,036\n好所以說就代表是什麼代表說第一時間我們認為說這個地震可能沒有影響那麼嚴重但是實際上他想像的更嚴重對不對那如果說這樣的話全台是不是只有515所學校受損還是可能超過按照我們到今天下午會截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠\n\n11\n00:03:36,756 --> 00:03:59,362\n這是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算?\n\n12\n00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:17,861\n依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量\n\n13\n00:04:18,561 --> 00:04:39,554\n好因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補給\n\n14\n00:04:40,595 --> 00:05:05,372\n所以我們今天等下我也會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好謝謝委員關心好\n\n15\n00:05:06,647 --> 00:05:07,007\n市長我現在要確認一下現在這個所謂的\n\n16\n00:05:25,825 --> 00:05:43,383\n準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆啊學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在\n\n17\n00:05:44,984 --> 00:06:07,835\n8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一\n\n18\n00:06:10,424 --> 00:06:16,857\n現在的這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對?是\n\n19\n00:06:19,727 --> 00:06:19,847\n115差一年\n\n20\n00:06:44,614 --> 00:06:45,975\n先攻後準攻然後再施誘\n\n21\n00:07:08,770 --> 00:07:27,699\n所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票要跳票的時候就跳票會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊好那再來\n\n22\n00:07:29,073 --> 00:07:32,035\n現在的獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年\n\n23\n00:07:51,941 --> 00:08:11,290\n15萬元,是不是?給一次。對,15萬元。這樣對於整個來講,它對於整個它的一個……15、20、25這樣,三年。你要給三年?連續三年。連續三年?對對,達到者。所以你反而是越往後達到的是給越多?15、20、25?剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模。它拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣。\n\n24\n00:08:18,499 --> 00:08:45,137\n我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊\n\n25\n00:08:45,657 --> 00:08:45,877\n市長,你怎麼看?\n\n26\n00:09:13,337 --> 00:09:21,560\n委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度\n\n27\n00:09:38,927 --> 00:10:01,984\n現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收尾的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來?\n\n28\n00:10:03,086 --> 00:10:13,700\n這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來\n\n29\n00:10:16,269 --> 00:10:23,034\n新任教育部長上任3月29日公布後方向完全確定剩下的細節委員觀察到的獎勵能不能再給予多一點或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便\n\n30\n00:10:45,871 --> 00:10:46,652\n4月底以前一定會出來?一定會\n\n31\n00:11:01,731 --> 00:11:29,291\n甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識提搭解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是\n\n32\n00:11:29,931 --> 00:11:58,296\n最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督準公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督準公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容\n\n33\n00:11:59,523 --> 00:12:15,168\n這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅\n\n34\n00:12:17,555 --> 00:12:43,536\n發言委員那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制\n\n35\n00:12:46,113 --> 00:13:02,370\n還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些\n\n36\n00:13:03,598 --> 00:13:03,638\n當然啊!\n\n37\n00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:56,602\n任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的\n\n38\n00:13:57,793 --> 00:13:57,833\n市長是\n\n39\n00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:42,705\n市長我說實在我們這樣沒有對評家長關心啊看到那這邊家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅\n\n40\n00:14:44,609 --> 00:14:46,350\n好,謝謝洪孟楷委員那我們再請柯之恩召委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n189\t1670\t主席,謝謝。麻煩請林次長。好,有請林次\n20163\t32371\t市長早市長我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是\n34993\t52150\t對 那照理講 因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間勘猜很重要 沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼教幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪 怎麼會部長沒有來反而讓次長來代打\n53832\t55454\t部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊\n69174\t84080\t所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來\n85695\t110587\t是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要20億\n111747\t140479\t那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了\n142230\t158484\t報告委員 現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8號開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理\n166511\t190871\t我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是資訊落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬\n192813\t216036\t好 所以說就代表是什麼代表說第一時間我們認為說這個地震可能沒有影響那麼嚴重但是實際上他想像的更嚴重 對不對那如果說這樣的話全台是不是只有515所學校受損還是可能超過按照我們到今天下午會截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠\n216756\t239362\t這是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算?\n240830\t257861\t依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量\n258561\t279554\t好 因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補給\n280595\t305372\t所以我們今天等下我也會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好 謝謝委員關心好\n306647\t307007\t市長 我現在要確認一下現在這個所謂的\n325825\t343383\t準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆啊學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在\n344984\t367835\t8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一\n370424\t376857\t現在的這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對?是\n379727\t379847\t115差一年\n404614\t405975\t先攻後準攻然後再施誘\n428770\t447699\t所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票要跳票的時候就跳票會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊好那再來\n449073\t452035\t現在的獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年\n471941\t491290\t15萬元,是不是?給一次。對,15萬元。這樣對於整個來講,它對於整個它的一個……15、20、25這樣,三年。你要給三年?連續三年。連續三年?對對,達到者。所以你反而是越往後達到的是給越多?15、20、25?剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模。它拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣。\n498499\t525137\t我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊\n525657\t525877\t市長,你怎麼看?\n553337\t561560\t委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度\n578927\t601984\t現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收尾的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來?\n603086\t613700\t這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來\n616269\t623034\t新任教育部長上任3月29日公布後方向完全確定剩下的細節委員觀察到的獎勵能不能再給予多一點或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便\n645871\t646652\t4月底以前一定會出來?一定會\n661731\t689291\t甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識提搭解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是\n689931\t718296\t最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督準公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督準公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容\n719523\t735168\t這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅\n737555\t763536\t發言委員 那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人 但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制\n766113\t782370\t還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些\n783598\t783638\t當然啊!\n810530\t836602\t任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的\n837793\t837833\t市長是\n865269\t882705\t市長 我說實在我們這樣沒有對評家長關心啊 看到那這邊家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點 而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅\n884609\t886350\t好,謝謝洪孟楷委員那我們再請柯之恩召委\n","txt":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請林次長。好,有請林次\n市長早市長我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是\n對 那照理講 因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間勘猜很重要 沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼教幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪 怎麼會部長沒有來反而讓次長來代打\n部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊\n所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來\n是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要20億\n那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了\n報告委員 現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8號開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理\n我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是資訊落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬\n好 所以說就代表是什麼代表說第一時間我們認為說這個地震可能沒有影響那麼嚴重但是實際上他想像的更嚴重 對不對那如果說這樣的話全台是不是只有515所學校受損還是可能超過按照我們到今天下午會截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠\n這是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算?\n依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量\n好 因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補給\n所以我們今天等下我也會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好 謝謝委員關心好\n市長 我現在要確認一下現在這個所謂的\n準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆啊學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在\n8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一\n現在的這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對?是\n115差一年\n先攻後準攻然後再施誘\n所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票要跳票的時候就跳票會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊好那再來\n現在的獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年\n15萬元,是不是?給一次。對,15萬元。這樣對於整個來講,它對於整個它的一個……15、20、25這樣,三年。你要給三年?連續三年。連續三年?對對,達到者。所以你反而是越往後達到的是給越多?15、20、25?剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模。它拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣。\n我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊\n市長,你怎麼看?\n委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度\n現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收尾的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來?\n這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來\n新任教育部長上任3月29日公布後方向完全確定剩下的細節委員觀察到的獎勵能不能再給予多一點或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便\n4月底以前一定會出來?一定會\n甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識提搭解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是\n最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督準公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督準公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容\n這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅\n發言委員 那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人 但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制\n還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些\n當然啊!\n任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的\n市長是\n市長 我說實在我們這樣沒有對評家長關心啊 看到那這邊家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點 而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅\n好,謝謝洪孟楷委員那我們再請柯之恩召委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.189 --> 00:01.670\n主席,謝謝。麻煩請林次長。好,有請林次\n\n00:20.163 --> 00:32.371\n市長早市長我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是\n\n00:34.993 --> 00:52.150\n對那照理講因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間勘猜很重要沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼教幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪怎麼會部長沒有來反而讓次長來代打\n\n00:53.832 --> 00:55.454\n部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊\n\n01:09.174 --> 01:24.080\n所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來\n\n01:25.695 --> 01:50.587\n是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要20億\n\n01:51.747 --> 02:20.479\n那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了\n\n02:22.230 --> 02:38.484\n報告委員現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8號開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理\n\n02:46.511 --> 03:10.871\n我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是資訊落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬\n\n03:12.813 --> 03:36.036\n好所以說就代表是什麼代表說第一時間我們認為說這個地震可能沒有影響那麼嚴重但是實際上他想像的更嚴重對不對那如果說這樣的話全台是不是只有515所學校受損還是可能超過按照我們到今天下午會截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠\n\n03:36.756 --> 03:59.362\n這是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算?\n\n04:00.830 --> 04:17.861\n依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量\n\n04:18.561 --> 04:39.554\n好因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補給\n\n04:40.595 --> 05:05.372\n所以我們今天等下我也會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好謝謝委員關心好\n\n05:06.647 --> 05:07.007\n市長我現在要確認一下現在這個所謂的\n\n05:25.825 --> 05:43.383\n準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆啊學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在\n\n05:44.984 --> 06:07.835\n8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一\n\n06:10.424 --> 06:16.857\n現在的這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對?是\n\n06:19.727 --> 06:19.847\n115差一年\n\n06:44.614 --> 06:45.975\n先攻後準攻然後再施誘\n\n07:08.770 --> 07:27.699\n所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票要跳票的時候就跳票會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊好那再來\n\n07:29.073 --> 07:32.035\n現在的獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年\n\n07:51.941 --> 08:11.290\n15萬元,是不是?給一次。對,15萬元。這樣對於整個來講,它對於整個它的一個……15、20、25這樣,三年。你要給三年?連續三年。連續三年?對對,達到者。所以你反而是越往後達到的是給越多?15、20、25?剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模。它拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣。\n\n08:18.499 --> 08:45.137\n我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊\n\n08:45.657 --> 08:45.877\n市長,你怎麼看?\n\n09:13.337 --> 09:21.560\n委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度\n\n09:38.927 --> 10:01.984\n現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收尾的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來?\n\n10:03.086 --> 10:13.700\n這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來\n\n10:16.269 --> 10:23.034\n新任教育部長上任3月29日公布後方向完全確定剩下的細節委員觀察到的獎勵能不能再給予多一點或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便\n\n10:45.871 --> 10:46.652\n4月底以前一定會出來?一定會\n\n11:01.731 --> 11:29.291\n甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識提搭解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是\n\n11:29.931 --> 11:58.296\n最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督準公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督準公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容\n\n11:59.523 --> 12:15.168\n這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅\n\n12:17.555 --> 12:43.536\n發言委員那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制\n\n12:46.113 --> 13:02.370\n還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些\n\n13:03.598 --> 13:03.638\n當然啊!\n\n13:30.530 --> 13:56.602\n任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的\n\n13:57.793 --> 13:57.833\n市長是\n\n14:25.269 --> 14:42.705\n市長我說實在我們這樣沒有對評家長關心啊看到那這邊家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅\n\n14:44.609 --> 14:46.350\n好,謝謝洪孟楷委員那我們再請柯之恩召委\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.189,"end":1.67,"text":"主席,謝謝。麻煩請林次長。好,有請林次"},{"start":20.163,"end":32.371,"text":"市長早市長我們有看到說今天部長跟教育文化委員會的請假是說他去看災啊請教他是去看哪邊的災他是到國立台灣圖書館還有所屬的館所所屬館所是"},{"start":34.993,"end":52.15,"text":"對 那照理講 因為對我們來講花蓮地震到現在也是一個禮拜的時間勘猜很重要 沒有錯但是今天我們審查相關的這個幼教幼兒教保公共化也非常重要那想說奇怪 怎麼會部長沒有來反而讓次長來代打"},{"start":53.832,"end":55.454,"text":"部長對於既定的行程跟政策還是要持續的關係當然啊"},{"start":69.174,"end":84.08,"text":"所以說我們說幼兒教保公共化這當然是既定的形成啊而且這當然是已經形成的政策而且要持續的推動而且這也是關心到全台2350萬人我們的這些小朋友啊那就部長今天沒有來"},{"start":85.695,"end":110.587,"text":"是部長不重視這樣的一個政策嗎?這個業務部長有充分的交辦所以也請委員放心好,所以你講的都可以說得算就對了來,次長想請教,灘災重要那現在說全台灣有515所學校受損那超過10億元教育部現在有什麼樣的專案來補助?好,對於東華大學的部分因為他受損非常嚴重他出戶進退要20億"},{"start":111.747,"end":140.479,"text":"那各高中以下的所需要的經費目前還在估算中你剛剛說東華大學要20億是又超過了我們現在之前新聞報導講說它5億元然後說花蓮女中2.2億所以全台差不多10億元所以剛剛次長已經一開始有講說超過20億那全台515所現在有沒有統審到底這一次受損多少錢各高中以下的學校我請國教署來簡單回應現在已經有沒有掌握了"},{"start":142.23,"end":158.484,"text":"報告委員 現在各縣市報來大概在今天下午5點以前做最後收網數字到時候再跟委員報告現在掌握的狀況是什麼現在掌握的狀況我們現在有各縣市的情況補了將近6200萬補了6200萬那救急的部分是這樣所以4月8號開學沒有問題大概只有西寶國小會延到到富士國小處理"},{"start":166.511,"end":190.871,"text":"我請教我就直接請教就是說剛剛市長明明媒體上面報導是說10億元全台超過10億元然後花東華大學差不多5億元的受損那剛剛市長就講直接20億了所以到底是資訊落差在哪邊沒有落差我們有掌握最新的數據像東華大學我們今天下午會再去勘栽並且做比較精準的評估他們前天送來的是19億2280萬"},{"start":192.813,"end":216.036,"text":"好 所以說就代表是什麼代表說第一時間我們認為說這個地震可能沒有影響那麼嚴重但是實際上他想像的更嚴重 對不對那如果說這樣的話全台是不是只有515所學校受損還是可能超過按照我們到今天下午會截止所有的通報數但是我們目前委員掌握的數字跟我們相去不遠"},{"start":216.756,"end":239.362,"text":"這是媒體上的報道嗎?是是是那我們全台好那我只問說如果說現在東華就20億花蓮女中看起來是2.2億可能更高那其他學校整個加起來全台這一波0403的大地震我們是會編列再跟行政院用專案的預算來申請專案計畫還是說會排擠到原本我們今年的一個本預算?"},{"start":240.83,"end":257.861,"text":"依照過往的公務預算的編列行政院公共工程會會直接受理各地方政府提報的各縣市的學校所獲得災損補助的經費所以今天下午大概會有一個初步的數量"},{"start":258.561,"end":279.554,"text":"好 因為本席要特別提醒就原本每年都會有一些相關的不管是學校的操場整建、廁所改建或者是相關的一些經費那因為0403的地震這確實是天災而意外造成很多學校受損我們當然要安全維護第一優先而且也是必須要最快速的有圍樓的地方趕快給補給"},{"start":280.595,"end":305.372,"text":"所以我們今天等下我也會提出一個臨時提案要求教育部跟行政院積極爭取專案0403的專案費用來針對這一次0403地震之後全台學校爆出來的一個受損狀況尤其剛剛講說今天下午下班前會彙整好那也請今天下午下班前彙整好的這個資料給本委員會各委員一份這樣可以嗎好 謝謝委員關心好"},{"start":306.647,"end":307.007,"text":"市長 我現在要確認一下現在這個所謂的"},{"start":325.825,"end":343.383,"text":"準公共幼兒園也是賴清德總統當選人在當行政院長的時候就已經力推的那現在推出6年以來當然有一些負面的新聞啦包括有違反師生筆啊學費超收等等但是準公幼仍然會一般民眾大家所信賴那現在"},{"start":344.984,"end":367.835,"text":"8月要進入第三期3週前還有新的版本出來簽約條件不明而傳出說有百家幼兒園會退場結果現在真的出來之後大約少了10家可是又也被外界認為說是不是又偏袒業者幼兒教保權大退步到底這嚴重落差在哪邊其中幾個部分我這一一討論第一"},{"start":370.424,"end":376.857,"text":"現在的這個所謂的公托是已經有師生比1比12是已經達到73%是在你今天報告對不對?是"},{"start":379.727,"end":379.847,"text":"115差一年"},{"start":404.614,"end":405.975,"text":"先攻後準攻然後再施誘"},{"start":428.77,"end":447.699,"text":"所以現在的這個狀況外界也會質疑是說那這樣子就說跳票就跳票要跳票的時候就跳票會變成是說你現在是要再簽約本來是害怕說百家會對場結果沒辦法那你當初沒有講到漸進式的部分啊好那再來"},{"start":449.073,"end":452.035,"text":"現在的獎勵規定請署長幫我們補充一下現在出來了嗎現在如果達成的可以依他的規模給他15、20、25連續給3年"},{"start":471.941,"end":491.29,"text":"15萬元,是不是?給一次。對,15萬元。這樣對於整個來講,它對於整個它的一個……15、20、25這樣,三年。你要給三年?連續三年。連續三年?對對,達到者。所以你反而是越往後達到的是給越多?15、20、25?剛才講的15、20、25是它的規模。它拿15的,連續拿15,三年這樣。"},{"start":498.499,"end":525.137,"text":"我現在看起來啦你去討論的時候是不是很多的這些業者其實都覺得說這其實是杯水車薪照理講如果說要的話應該是一視同仁大家能夠達到1比12大家就一起達到否則這樣是變成是說好像達到1比12的人這有點反而是願意來配合教育部願意來配合相關單位的這些人反而是他相對來講是比較吃虧啊"},{"start":525.657,"end":525.877,"text":"市長,你怎麼看?"},{"start":553.337,"end":561.56,"text":"委員觀察的非常入微的確他如果提早達標的我們提早給他補助這補助的額度依其班級數來決定那當然小園給小兒大園給大兒提早達標提早給補助這個還是不足以涵蓋他所付出的成本但是因為這個政策目標我們之前就有宣示提早達標提早補助這個是這個額度"},{"start":578.927,"end":601.984,"text":"現在辦法已經確定了嗎?已經到最後收尾的階段了在跟地方政府跟業者在最後的確定就已經敲定什麼時候會確定?什麼時候最終方案會出來?現在是溝通的過程當中我知道當然有很多的大家也都希望能夠有更優惠的一個條件但是對於我們什麼時候最終點的最終辦法會出來?"},{"start":603.086,"end":613.7,"text":"這點你一定要給時間點而且重點在於是說之前其實已經喊出說1比12那現在又讓大家外界覺得說好像有跳票那這一次第三次的一個簽約什麼時候辦法要出來"},{"start":616.269,"end":623.034,"text":"新任教育部長上任3月29日公布後方向完全確定剩下的細節委員觀察到的獎勵能不能再給予多一點或是有些執行的細節不管地方政府或是經營者可能會有一些微微的建議那些我們都會能夠協助的情況下盡量能夠讓程序方便"},{"start":645.871,"end":646.652,"text":"4月底以前一定會出來?一定會"},{"start":661.731,"end":689.291,"text":"甚至我們提前能夠在4月中午前連細節都能夠出來出來還是本席在這邊特別我想為什麼今天召委會特別開這樣的一個專案報告就是因為在這個知識提搭解釋影響範圍很廣所以在這個過程裡面今天很多委員可能會就內容細節部分再去做請教請一定要聽到大家的意見來去做最後調整4月底以前一定出來是不是"},{"start":689.931,"end":718.296,"text":"最後我只再利用一分鐘我裡面看到是說要監督準公幼我們當然胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起你說有監督準公幼結果第三期的規定沒有看到說實質的查核是什麼新規定居然是要求說院方把院內環境照片上傳到指定平台每天吃什麼點心吃什麼午餐的照片上傳這樣就算監督嗎我可以用兩句話來形容"},{"start":719.523,"end":735.168,"text":"這看起來像是紙上作業打卡檢查每天讓老師從幼兒園是照顧小朋友的角色變成是拿一個手機每天在那邊幫學生幫幼兒打卡照相照相完之後上傳老師是幼保員還是網紅"},{"start":737.555,"end":763.536,"text":"發言委員 那個是每天吃的餐食點心國小國中也都有每天吃的人 但我現在問的是說這樣就算是檢查嗎如果說我們現在的檢驗就變成是說讓老師拍照打卡上傳變成是網紅沒有任何的更積極主動的作為那照片能不能拍多張能不能隨時上傳有沒有抽查機制有沒有檢驗機制"},{"start":766.113,"end":782.37,"text":"還是一個食物拍左邊右邊前面後面四張照片分四天傳這些都是我們認為是說如果說你到最後推過還是推給就是一般的准工又一般的這些"},{"start":783.598,"end":783.638,"text":"當然啊!"},{"start":810.53,"end":836.602,"text":"任何的一個家長要求都都是如此我相信今天來教育文化委員會所執選委員也都是如此所以我們如果說只有看到是說你要監督的方式我開宗明義就講過去這幾年總共又也是有一些社會的問題而這些社會問題也確實也造成大家會有心理的負擔或是說不信任但是對於一般的家長來講他還是覺得說相對收費比較便宜相對來講我真的"},{"start":837.793,"end":837.833,"text":"市長是"},{"start":865.269,"end":882.705,"text":"市長 我說實在我們這樣沒有對評家長關心啊 看到那這邊家長更關心說是不是有實質的吃到營養的東西是不是這個東西是名副其實這才是重點 而不是到最後變成是老師們他們去變成是網紅"},{"start":884.609,"end":886.35,"text":"好,謝謝洪孟楷委員那我們再請柯之恩召委"}]}}}}