{"id":150956,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150956","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948ebcffdaed9e3e2e872d211db49933aca9f8ba9b0039caa7a6563526a89f19f5b65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:48:59 - 10:02:23","影片長度":"00:13:24","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":804,"end_time":"2024-04-10T10:02:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T09:48:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":345,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時49分）主席，有請教育部林次長。"],["主席：好，有請林次長。"],["林次長明裕：委員早。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，很高興初次見面。想請教一下次長，您來自國教現場，也負責督導國教的業務，想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸使學生接觸AI的工具？或者教育部的立場是高中以下學生完全不應該接觸AI工具？應該？還是不應該？"],["林次長明裕：對於人工智慧方面的素養，我覺得大概在國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分，當然從中學階段，中等教育的前端，就是國中階段，其實就應該開始涉獵。"],["葛委員如鈞：應該嘛？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以應該嘛！為什麼我這樣問，因為近來教育界發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件，想必您應該也有所聞。首先是復興商工美展的首獎作品──大鬧龍宮，結果是大鬧臺灣！後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖，而且使用比例超過了七成，最後依據校內規定取消該名學生的首獎資格，而且記小過處分。另外一個事件，教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽，有評審發現審閱的110件作品當中，至少，而且只是至少喔，有25件疑似是用生成式AI寫出的，怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥，從此我們到底如何信賴、如何比賽？對此，教育部的回應是：參賽作品不得抄襲、模仿、改編、譯自外文、以AI工具生成代寫或頂用他人名義參賽。如有違反上述情形，經查證屬實者，將通知學校，並於下個梯次停權一次，若累積二次則永久停權。作品若得獎則取消資格，追回獎狀。次長，從這兩個例子看來，我認為教育部的立場對AI工具的使用其實比較保守，甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具，是不是這樣？"],["林次長明裕：基本上，使用AI在透過這種全國性評比的，我認為都要再做一下所謂的確認，確認這個作品是不是出自於您的創意。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，謝謝。我覺得在這邊就出現一個小小的疑義，因為您剛剛是說應該要知道，應該要學習使用AI，但只要一到比賽，就不能用AI、不鼓勵用AI，我想請教一下次長，這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友？AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人？請教一下次長，目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中職以下的學校，訂定AI使用參考指引，讓同學們清楚地知道哪些範圍？您剛剛提到一些嘛！哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具？哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作？哪些範圍可以放心使用？哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞？有沒有相關的指引？"],["林次長明裕：相關指引我們請資科司幫忙回答。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，時間有限，麻煩你。"],["邱副司長仁杰：我們本來在數位教學指引2.0裡面就有把生成式AI新的教學事例放進……"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有針對高中職以下？"],["邱副司長仁杰：有，就是所謂……"],["葛委員如鈞：包含嘛！"],["邱副司長仁杰：中小學。"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有說比賽不適合用，然後鼓勵他去學習？有這樣的規定在參考指引裡面嗎？"],["邱副司長仁杰：沒有特別規定比賽不能夠使用，必須視每一個比賽的屬性設定比賽的規則。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，剛剛次長有一些描述，希望你們比對一下，次長的描述、教育部的想法跟所謂的指引到底有沒有一致，不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑，因為沒有一個明確的指引，同學就不知道哪裡能用，哪裡不能用，他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定，導致得到懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利。我覺得這會讓人家覺得AI時代來了，但是我們好像不鼓勵他用這些新的工具，就像電腦時代來了，卻鼓勵學生交作業要用毛筆，不能用電腦，我相信這應該不是對的，不要用懲處的方式，應該要建立AI使用的正確觀念。我想請教一下次長，針對AI使用參考指引，你可不可以承諾研議有沒有需要修正的地方，跟次長剛剛的說法比對一下，是不是能夠讓同學、師生更清楚的瞭解？"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員的提醒，AI方面的教學指引我們會再升級成3.0版。"],["葛委員如鈞：太棒了，謝謝。為什麼我們非常急切？原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫，覺得很懷疑，覺得很害怕。","接下來想請次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作，我就不讓您分哪個是真，哪個是假，全部都是假的，全部都是AI創作的。這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機找的，每一個看起來都是大師的作品。這些東西在我們睡覺的時候，每一張圖、每一個AI都在進步。任何一個學生用這個東西參賽就算了，參賽還會說禁止AI，我如果是設計系的同學，拿這個參加入學考試，我做我的portfolio，哪一個老師看得出來？老實說，我在設計系任教過，我完全看不出來。接下來還會更像，每一個人都是大師，沒有用AI的，以前用手工參加比賽得名的，結果他報考學校的時候反而落後了，為什麼？因為他沒辦法做出這些以假亂真的大師作品。我想請教一下，這些幾百頁的畢業論文、口試、入學書審有沒有AI的參與？參與的比例到底有多高？我想請教一下次長，教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則，或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容判斷工具，協助老師、協助學校？有沒有？"],["林次長明裕：目前沒有。委員提示的我們就來加速建置。"],["葛委員如鈞：非常好，我真的是要幫忙一下媒體還有師生去講，AI工具生成代寫如何辨識？教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品均在隱蔽個資以後，由人類的評審評比，評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋、比對作品系統等工具，也沒有說什麼平台，也沒有說什麼系統，而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性，如文章引用和參考資料、原始創意和深度，辨識是否為AI生成工具代寫。這一段話雖然是用中文寫的，但是我們讀完其實有點一頭霧水。國外都在用工具，都在發展工具幫助老師，結果我們臺灣竟然要老師用人眼，我相信他們真的會非常辛苦。請教一下次長，當第一線的老師用上述的流程、原則比對，萬一沒有指定工具，也沒有指定平台，也沒有指定方法，如果搞錯了，說它是AI結果不是，說它不是AI結果是，這個影響到學生的權益，權益受損的話，教育部規劃如何處理？"],["林次長明裕：就如同剛才委員提示的，對於提供教師評斷、評選AI生成式的相關文章、圖文，甚至影音、影帶，這方面相關的判讀工具有必要再強化。"],["葛委員如鈞：非常好，我們的第一學府──臺灣大學其實已經開始做一些準備，針對ChatGPT生成內容的偵測工具，有OpenAI的AI Text Classifier、Detector、CheckforAi、GPTZero等等，希望相關工具可以多加介紹、指定來協助老師，不要讓老師用人眼對抗AI，也不要讓學生說要用毛筆對抗電腦，用人腦對抗AI，這個一定要整合並提升相關正確的觀念，要賦能給學生，也要賦能給老師，不要有數位落差……"],["林次長明裕：好，這一些部分我們來努力。"],["葛委員如鈞：也不要有智慧的落差。","我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜，剛剛那個不用猜，這個給您猜一下，這四張哪個是人，哪個是AI？"],["林次長明裕：人畫的？"],["葛委員如鈞：對，哪個是人，哪個是AI？"],["林次長明裕：如果是素描的話，應該是最左邊。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，給您答完……"],["林次長明裕：素描應該不可能用AI。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好。"],["林次長明裕：圖文更豐沛的應該是右邊。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，這一題我們其實有放水，上面標題就寫，這個是人類跟AI的共同創作，左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的，右邊的兩個是AI幫他完稿的，這個就叫人類與AI的協作。我們不要把AI當成敵人，比賽也不一定要禁用AI，我們要給他們好的觀念，讓AI一起幫助他。"],["林次長明裕：對，善於運用AI的孩子，我們要給他鼓勵。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒錯，很好，次長這樣的觀念非常棒，我們應該要鼓勵，相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法。","剛剛我們都是講人類跟AI之間，接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗。資安事件黑箱頻傳，40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件，這個我們還是要盯一下，每10天出包1次，教育「布」黑箱大事紀，我們已經幫您整理好了，2月22號機房火災，結果我們調了老半天，2月22號發生的，我們3月29號發文索取火災調查報告，總算拿到了，是4月3號，結果只有4個字──電氣因素，要不要下次變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素？到底是你的配電盤配電有問題、線路有問題，還是整個機房配置有問題？你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊，UPS旁邊還有電線，是一牆之隔，這個東西真的不能只用電氣因素檢討。我想請教一下，這個資安事件發生以後，應該一個月內……這是第3級，我想請教一下，有沒有送交報告到教育部？有按時送交嗎？有沒有？一個月內應該要送交，交了嗎？"],["林次長明裕：委員，科技大樓火災，會後我們有去看過一次，委員有提示，有關於電器室相關的設備、UPS置放的地點有所不妥的，我們要檢討。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我直接講答案，你們3月22號壓線交，那一次去訪查，我們要了很多spec的資料，我們要了UPS的資料，我們要了機房的資料，也要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料，但是我們目前還沒有拿到，麻煩再處理一下。"],["林次長明裕：好，書面我們來努力。"],["葛委員如鈞：另外，3月12號、14號駭客入侵，4月10號了，26間學校學生的學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有被竄改要清查，清查完了沒？我的Threads帳號有一堆學生在問……"],["林次長明裕：好，清查結果……"],["葛委員如鈞：說他的學習履歷傳完了，到底還在不在？有沒有問題？"],["林次長明裕：清查結果沒有問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：他申請學校會不會受到影響？都OK嗎？"],["林次長明裕：清查OK。"],["葛委員如鈞：已經完成清查了嗎？"],["林次長明裕：學習檔案都沒有受損。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，3月27號再發生一次事件，公文系統大當機，一壞就壞5天，如果超過復電的時間，可能又變成3級資安事件。請問一下，電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久？幾天要回復？"],["林次長明裕：我們總共前後4天。"],["葛委員如鈞：你們花了4天，本來內部說多久要回復？有沒有超過？"],["林次長明裕：超過我們部定的時間，這個我們要檢討。"],["葛委員如鈞：這個要檢討。"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：而且到時候要確認一下，這樣是不是又變成3級資安事件？統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名，真的不應該這樣。"],["林次長明裕：這個不應該。"],["葛委員如鈞：學習應該是很安心、很安全。公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生了。相關的這些火災、跳電、電氣因素、火氣因素、配電盤因素甚至地震等狀況，是不是可以納入相關業務的單位，包含公文系統，一起進行資安演練？這一題可不可以跟我們說可以或不可以？"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員的提示。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，最後我們想講，教育部這幾次的資安事件，真的令社會大眾對教育部的資安防護產生疑慮，更令大眾有所不滿，黑箱作業真的是非常可怕，沒有一個事件發生原因的細節被公開，後續的處理跟未來的檢討改善也沒有完整公布在陽光底下，供我們檢視，甚至連教育部部長都被關進這個黑箱，被遮蓋在教育「布」裡頭，兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院。我要跟次長講，今天我們提出的問題，教育部一定要儘快提出解決辦法以及配套措施，也希望你幫忙跟部長轉達一下，不管他是在部裡面，還是在黑箱裡面，都沒有關係，希望他還是很安全，不然可能那個龍無Bug要貼在部長身上，雖然要卸任了，但仍無法逃避、不去解決這些問題，希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會，好好善盡備詢的義務，可以嗎？"],["林次長明裕：部長永遠都在陽光下。"],["葛委員如鈞：只是不在立院的陽光下，希望他可以來到立院的陽光下，好嗎？謝謝。"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員，次長請回。","接下來請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 791.377, \"end\": 791.397, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"葛\", \"start\": 793.157, \"end\": 793.337, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 793.337, \"end\": 793.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鈞\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,106 --> 00:00:16,470\n主席有請教育部林次長有請林次長\n\n2\n00:00:21,581 --> 00:00:42,409\n委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該\n\n3\n00:00:44,799 --> 00:01:01,837\n對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛所以應該嘛很好\n\n4\n00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:26,434\n近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件：想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品《大鬧龍公》結果大鬧台灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖而且使用比例超過了7成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格而且計了小過處分\n\n5\n00:01:28,815 --> 00:01:57,856\n另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫．\n\n6\n00:01:58,937 --> 00:02:16,231\n或者鼎用他的民意參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽天是停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格的最後獎狀自想從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣．\n\n7\n00:02:17,626 --> 00:02:17,666\n主席\n\n8\n00:02:33,127 --> 00:02:59,128\n謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道\n\n9\n00:03:01,792 --> 00:03:11,951\n哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引?\n\n10\n00:03:12,745 --> 00:03:17,247\n有沒有針對高中子以下?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面?\n\n11\n00:03:35,936 --> 00:03:58,826\n沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用\n\n12\n00:03:59,506 --> 00:04:16,258\n他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教做要用毛筆\n\n13\n00:04:17,039 --> 00:04:17,399\n請教育部列席\n\n14\n00:04:41,174 --> 00:04:58,840\n謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作\n\n15\n00:05:03,041 --> 00:05:16,490\n我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步\n\n16\n00:05:18,331 --> 00:05:36,532\n任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師\n\n17\n00:05:37,073 --> 00:05:39,935\n我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高﹖我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖\n\n18\n00:06:03,112 --> 00:06:28,067\n或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具．來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建制好非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品\n\n19\n00:06:28,527 --> 00:06:53,470\n均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水．\n\n20\n00:06:54,791 --> 00:07:22,131\n國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人眼我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是這個影響到學生的權益\n\n21\n00:07:22,731 --> 00:07:26,813\n提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具\n\n22\n00:07:49,104 --> 00:07:49,224\n提供資訊提供資訊提供資訊\n\n23\n00:08:10,537 --> 00:08:29,309\n這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張\n\n24\n00:08:30,229 --> 00:08:32,691\n這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的\n\n25\n00:08:52,304 --> 00:08:54,265\n右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩稿的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵\n\n26\n00:09:08,769 --> 00:09:34,726\n沒錯很好市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了\n\n27\n00:09:35,006 --> 00:09:55,502\n4月22日機房火災．結果我們吊了老半天．2月22日發生的我們3月29日發文所取火災調查報告總算拿到了4月3日結果只有4個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題\n\n28\n00:10:00,205 --> 00:10:22,737\n你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電器因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交了嗎\n\n29\n00:10:25,287 --> 00:10:52,472\n委員在科技大樓火災那一會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔麻煩再處理一下另外呢3月12號14號\n\n30\n00:10:53,772 --> 00:11:09,826\n害客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的稅值帳號一堆學生在問說他們的學習比例傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響都OK嗎已經完成清查了我們學習檔案都沒有受損\n\n31\n00:11:15,911 --> 00:11:38,018\n3月27日又再發生一次事件公文系統大浪期一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過\n\n32\n00:11:39,818 --> 00:11:52,587\n超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且呢到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講啦\n\n33\n00:11:58,050 --> 00:12:11,883\n相關的這些火災﹑跳電﹑電氣因素﹑火氣因素﹑配電盤因素﹑甚至地震等狀況﹑是不是可以納入相關業務的單位﹑包含公文系統一起進行資安演練﹑這一題可不可以跟我們說﹑可以或不可以?\n\n34\n00:12:17,542 --> 00:12:42,807\n最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱被遮蓋在這個\n\n35\n00:12:43,567 --> 00:13:11,397\n教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上雖然要卸任了無法逃避去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務可以嗎\n\n36\n00:13:13,157 --> 00:13:13,357\n葛如鈞\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13106\t16470\t主席有請教育部林次長有請林次長\n21581\t42409\t委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該\n44799\t61837\t對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛所以應該嘛很好\n64140\t86434\t近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件：想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品《大鬧龍公》結果大鬧台灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖而且使用比例超過了7成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格而且計了小過處分\n88815\t117856\t另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫．\n118937\t136231\t或者鼎用他的民意參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽天是停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格的最後獎狀自想從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣．\n137626\t137666\t主席\n153127\t179128\t謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道\n181792\t191951\t哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引?\n192745\t197247\t有沒有針對高中子以下?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面?\n215936\t238826\t沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用\n239506\t256258\t他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教做要用毛筆\n257039\t257399\t請教育部列席\n281174\t298840\t謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作\n303041\t316490\t我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步\n318331\t336532\t任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師\n337073\t339935\t我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高﹖我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖\n363112\t388067\t或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具．來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建制好 非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品\n388527\t413470\t均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水．\n414791\t442131\t國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人眼我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是這個影響到學生的權益\n442731\t446813\t提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具\n469104\t469224\t提供資訊提供資訊提供資訊\n490537\t509309\t這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張\n510229\t512691\t這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的\n532304\t534265\t右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩稿的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵\n548769\t574726\t沒錯 很好 市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦 我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了\n575006\t595502\t4月22日機房火災．結果我們吊了老半天．2月22日發生的我們3月29日發文所取火災調查報告總算拿到了4月3日結果只有4個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題\n600205\t622737\t你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電器因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交了嗎\n625287\t652472\t委員在科技大樓火災那一會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔麻煩再處理一下另外呢3月12號14號\n653772\t669826\t害客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的稅值帳號一堆學生在問說他們的學習比例傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響都OK嗎已經完成清查了我們學習檔案都沒有受損\n675911\t698018\t3月27日又再發生一次事件公文系統大浪期一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過\n699818\t712587\t超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且呢到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講啦\n718050\t731883\t相關的這些火災﹑跳電﹑電氣因素﹑火氣因素﹑配電盤因素﹑甚至地震等狀況﹑是不是可以納入相關業務的單位﹑包含公文系統一起進行資安演練﹑這一題可不可以跟我們說﹑可以或不可以?\n737542\t762807\t最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱被遮蓋在這個\n763567\t791397\t教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上雖然要卸任了無法逃避去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務可以嗎\n793157\t793357\t葛如鈞\n","txt":"主席有請教育部林次長有請林次長\n委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該\n對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛所以應該嘛很好\n近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件：想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品《大鬧龍公》結果大鬧台灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖而且使用比例超過了7成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格而且計了小過處分\n另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫．\n或者鼎用他的民意參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽天是停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格的最後獎狀自想從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣．\n主席\n謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道\n哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引?\n有沒有針對高中子以下?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面?\n沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用\n他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教做要用毛筆\n請教育部列席\n謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作\n我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步\n任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師\n我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高﹖我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖\n或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具．來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建制好 非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品\n均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水．\n國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人眼我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是這個影響到學生的權益\n提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具\n提供資訊提供資訊提供資訊\n這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張\n這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的\n右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩稿的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵\n沒錯 很好 市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦 我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了\n4月22日機房火災．結果我們吊了老半天．2月22日發生的我們3月29日發文所取火災調查報告總算拿到了4月3日結果只有4個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題\n你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電器因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交了嗎\n委員在科技大樓火災那一會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔麻煩再處理一下另外呢3月12號14號\n害客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的稅值帳號一堆學生在問說他們的學習比例傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響都OK嗎已經完成清查了我們學習檔案都沒有受損\n3月27日又再發生一次事件公文系統大浪期一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過\n超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且呢到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講啦\n相關的這些火災﹑跳電﹑電氣因素﹑火氣因素﹑配電盤因素﹑甚至地震等狀況﹑是不是可以納入相關業務的單位﹑包含公文系統一起進行資安演練﹑這一題可不可以跟我們說﹑可以或不可以?\n最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱被遮蓋在這個\n教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上雖然要卸任了無法逃避去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務可以嗎\n葛如鈞\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.106 --> 00:16.470\n主席有請教育部林次長有請林次長\n\n00:21.581 --> 00:42.409\n委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該\n\n00:44.799 --> 01:01.837\n對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛所以應該嘛很好\n\n01:04.140 --> 01:26.434\n近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件：想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品《大鬧龍公》結果大鬧台灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖而且使用比例超過了7成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格而且計了小過處分\n\n01:28.815 --> 01:57.856\n另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫．\n\n01:58.937 --> 02:16.231\n或者鼎用他的民意參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽天是停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格的最後獎狀自想從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣．\n\n02:17.626 --> 02:17.666\n主席\n\n02:33.127 --> 02:59.128\n謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道\n\n03:01.792 --> 03:11.951\n哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引?\n\n03:12.745 --> 03:17.247\n有沒有針對高中子以下?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面?\n\n03:35.936 --> 03:58.826\n沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用\n\n03:59.506 --> 04:16.258\n他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教做要用毛筆\n\n04:17.039 --> 04:17.399\n請教育部列席\n\n04:41.174 --> 04:58.840\n謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作\n\n05:03.041 --> 05:16.490\n我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步\n\n05:18.331 --> 05:36.532\n任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師\n\n05:37.073 --> 05:39.935\n我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高﹖我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖\n\n06:03.112 --> 06:28.067\n或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具．來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建制好非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品\n\n06:28.527 --> 06:53.470\n均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水．\n\n06:54.791 --> 07:22.131\n國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人眼我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是這個影響到學生的權益\n\n07:22.731 --> 07:26.813\n提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具\n\n07:49.104 --> 07:49.224\n提供資訊提供資訊提供資訊\n\n08:10.537 --> 08:29.309\n這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張\n\n08:30.229 --> 08:32.691\n這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的\n\n08:52.304 --> 08:54.265\n右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩稿的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵\n\n09:08.769 --> 09:34.726\n沒錯很好市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了\n\n09:35.006 --> 09:55.502\n4月22日機房火災．結果我們吊了老半天．2月22日發生的我們3月29日發文所取火災調查報告總算拿到了4月3日結果只有4個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題\n\n10:00.205 --> 10:22.737\n你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電器因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交了嗎\n\n10:25.287 --> 10:52.472\n委員在科技大樓火災那一會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔麻煩再處理一下另外呢3月12號14號\n\n10:53.772 --> 11:09.826\n害客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的稅值帳號一堆學生在問說他們的學習比例傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響都OK嗎已經完成清查了我們學習檔案都沒有受損\n\n11:15.911 --> 11:38.018\n3月27日又再發生一次事件公文系統大浪期一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過\n\n11:39.818 --> 11:52.587\n超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且呢到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講啦\n\n11:58.050 --> 12:11.883\n相關的這些火災﹑跳電﹑電氣因素﹑火氣因素﹑配電盤因素﹑甚至地震等狀況﹑是不是可以納入相關業務的單位﹑包含公文系統一起進行資安演練﹑這一題可不可以跟我們說﹑可以或不可以?\n\n12:17.542 --> 12:42.807\n最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱被遮蓋在這個\n\n12:43.567 --> 13:11.397\n教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上雖然要卸任了無法逃避去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務可以嗎\n\n13:13.157 --> 13:13.357\n葛如鈞\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.106,"end":16.47,"text":"主席有請教育部林次長有請林次長"},{"start":21.581,"end":42.409,"text":"委員長謝謝很高興初次見面想請教一下次長您來自國教現場是也負責督導國教的業務想請教您認為在什麼樣的教育階段應該逐漸的來使學生接觸AI的工具或者教育部的立場是高中以下的學生完全不應該接觸AI工具應該還是不應該"},{"start":44.799,"end":61.837,"text":"對於人工智慧方面的素養我覺得在大概國小高年級階段應該就可以理解一部分那當然從中學階段中等教育的前端就高國中階段其實就應該開始策略應該嘛所以應該嘛很好"},{"start":64.14,"end":86.434,"text":"近來教育界因為發生了幾場有關AI的爭議事件：想必你應該也有所聞首先是復興商工師生美展的首獎作品《大鬧龍公》結果大鬧台灣後來被發現使用人工智慧繪圖而且使用比例超過了7成最後依據校內的規定來取消該名學生的首獎資格而且計了小過處分"},{"start":88.815,"end":117.856,"text":"另外一個事件．教育部每年舉辦的全國高級中等學校閱讀心得比賽．有評審發現省閱的110件作品當中至少．而且只是至少．有25件疑似是用深層式AI來寫出的．怒斥閱讀比賽彷彿瞬間成為AI大亂鬥．從此我們到底如何信賴如何比賽．對此教育部的回應是參賽作品不得抄襲．模仿改編意志外文．而且也不得以AI工具深層來代寫．"},{"start":118.937,"end":136.231,"text":"或者鼎用他的民意參賽．若違反查證屬實的．應該通知學校．並在下一個參賽天是停權．如果兩次就永久停權．取消資格的最後獎狀自想從這兩個例子看來．我認為教育部的立場．對AI工具的使用其實比較保守．甚至不鼓勵同學使用AI工具．是不是這樣．"},{"start":137.626,"end":137.666,"text":"主席"},{"start":153.127,"end":179.128,"text":"謝謝我覺得在這邊我覺得就出現了一個小小的疑議因為您剛剛是說應該要知道應該要學習使用AI但是只要一到比賽就不能用AI不鼓勵用AI我想請教一下次長這樣子大家到底要如何判斷AI到底是戰犯還是戰友AI到底是工具還是我們的敵人請教一下次長目前教育部到底有沒有針對高中值以下的學校訂定AI使用參考指引讓同學們清楚的知道"},{"start":181.792,"end":191.951,"text":"哪些範圍絕對不能使用AI工具?哪些範圍可以使用AI共同協作?哪些範圍可以放心使用?哪些範圍可以完全使用AI代勞?有沒有相關的指引?"},{"start":192.745,"end":197.247,"text":"有沒有針對高中子以下?有沒有說比賽不適合用?然後鼓勵他去學習?有這樣的規定嗎?在裡面?"},{"start":215.936,"end":238.826,"text":"沒有特別說規定比賽不能夠使用必須要是每一個比賽他的一個屬性去設定他的一個比賽的規則我想剛剛次長其實有些描述希望你們比對一下次長的描述教育部的想法跟這個所謂的指引到底有沒有一致不要讓同學或師生感覺到疑惑因為沒有一個明確的指引同學就不知道哪裡能用哪裡不能用"},{"start":239.506,"end":256.258,"text":"他可能也不會注意到相關的比賽規定導致得到了這個懲處甚至剝奪未來學生參加比賽的權利我覺得會讓人家覺得說AI時代來了但是我們好像不鼓勵他去用這些新的工具就像我們電腦時代來了鼓勵學生教做要用毛筆"},{"start":257.039,"end":257.399,"text":"請教育部列席"},{"start":281.174,"end":298.84,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒對於AI方面的教學的指引我們會再升級成為3.0版太棒了謝謝那接下來為什麼我們非常急切原因就是因為不要讓師生在學習的過程當中覺得很猶豫覺得很懷疑覺得很害怕接下來想請教一下次長觀看這三幅風格迥異的人像畫作"},{"start":303.041,"end":316.49,"text":"我就不讓您去分哪個是真哪個是假全部都是假的全部是AI創作的這都還只是我們隨便上網隨機去找的每一個看起來都是大師作品但是這些東西我們在睡覺的時候每一張圖每一個AI都在進步"},{"start":318.331,"end":336.532,"text":"任何一個學生用這個東西來參賽就算了參賽還會說禁止AI我如果是設計系的同學拿這個去做入學考試我去做我的portfolio哪一個老師看得出來老師說我會在設計系任教過我完全看不出來接下來還會更像每一個人都是大師"},{"start":337.073,"end":339.935,"text":"我想請教一下,這些幾百頁的畢業論文﹖口試﹖入學書審﹖有沒有AI的參與﹖參與的比例到底有多高﹖我想請教一下次長,教育部到底有沒有訂出AI生成內容判斷原則﹖"},{"start":363.112,"end":388.067,"text":"或者經教育部認可的AI生成內容的判斷工具．來協助老師學術學校有沒有目前是沒有那委員所提示的我們就來加速建制好 非常好這裡我真的是要幫忙一下媒體也還有師生去講AI工具生成代寫如何辨識教育部的回應是每篇閱讀心得參賽作品"},{"start":388.527,"end":413.47,"text":"均在隱蔽各自以後由人類的評審來評比．評審老師得利用資訊平台搜尋．比對作品系統等工具．也沒有說什麼平台．也沒有說什麼系統．而且還要針對AI工具生成的特性．如文章所引用和參考資料．原始創意和深度．辨識是否為AI生成工具的代寫．這一段話雖然是用中文寫的．但我們其實讀完有點一頭霧水．"},{"start":414.791,"end":442.131,"text":"國外都在用工具都在發展工具來幫助老師結果我們台灣竟然是要老師用人眼我相信這個真的他們會非常辛苦請教一下次長當第一線的老師用上述的流程原則來去比對萬一沒有指定工具也沒有指定平台也沒有指定方法如果搞錯了說他是AI結果不是說他不是AI結果是這個影響到學生的權益"},{"start":442.731,"end":446.813,"text":"提供教師來評斷評選AI生成式的相關的文章圖文甚至影音影帶這方面的相關的這個判讀工具是有必要在非常好我們其實第一學府台灣大學其實就已經開始做一些準備對確GPT生成的內容偵測工具"},{"start":469.104,"end":469.224,"text":"提供資訊提供資訊提供資訊"},{"start":490.537,"end":509.309,"text":"這個一定是要來整合的提升相關的正確的觀念也要賦能給學生也要賦能給老師不要有數位落差也不要有智慧落差接下來我的質詢有時候都會猜一猜剛剛那個不用猜這個給您猜一下哪個是人哪個是AI這四張"},{"start":510.229,"end":512.691,"text":"這題我們其實有放水啦上面標題就寫這個是人類跟AI的共同創作左邊兩個是人類漫畫家勾勒出來的"},{"start":532.304,"end":534.265,"text":"右邊的兩個是AI幫他玩稿的這個就叫人類與AI的協作我們不要把AI當成敵人比賽也不一定要禁用AI我們要給他們好的觀念來讓AI一起來幫助他你運用AI的孩子我們要給他鼓勵"},{"start":548.769,"end":574.726,"text":"沒錯 很好 市長這樣的觀念非常棒我們應該要來鼓勵相關的原則就要放進這樣的說法好啦 我想我時間有限剛剛我們都講的是人類跟AI之間接下來我們還有實體安全跟資訊安全之間的對抗資安事件黑箱頻傳40天以內發生了4起重大資安事件這個我們還是要來盯一下每10天出包一次教育部黑箱大事記我們已經幫您整理好了"},{"start":575.006,"end":595.502,"text":"4月22日機房火災．結果我們吊了老半天．2月22日發生的我們3月29日發文所取火災調查報告總算拿到了4月3日結果只有4個字電氣因素你要不要下次就變成火氣因素還是什麼天氣因素到底是你的配電盤配電有問題線路有問題還是整個機房配置有問題"},{"start":600.205,"end":622.737,"text":"你把UPS放在主機機房旁邊UPS旁邊還有電線直接一牆之隔這個東西真的是不能只用電器因素來檢討像請教一下這個治安發生以後這個應該一個月內因為這是第三集想請教一下有沒有送交報告到教育部按時送交嗎有沒有一個月內應該要送交了嗎"},{"start":625.287,"end":652.472,"text":"委員在科技大樓火災那一會後我們有去看過一次委員有提示有關於電氣式的相關的設備UPS的置放的地點有所不妥的我們要講我直接講答案啦你們3月22號壓線交啦但我們那次去訪查我們要了很多的SPAC的資料我們要了UPS的資料我們要了機房的資料要了你們說今年年底以前要提前裝修的資料我們目前還沒有拿到喔麻煩再處理一下另外呢3月12號14號"},{"start":653.772,"end":669.826,"text":"害客入侵結果目前4月10日26間學校的學生學習歷程檔案資料到底有沒有篡改要清查清查完了沒我的稅值帳號一堆學生在問說他們的學習比例傳完了到底還在不在有沒有問題他申請學校會不會受到影響都OK嗎已經完成清查了我們學習檔案都沒有受損"},{"start":675.911,"end":698.018,"text":"3月27日又再發生一次事件公文系統大浪期一壞就壞五天如果超過復電的時間可能又變成三級資安事件請問一下電子公文系統復原時間的目標設定是多久幾天要回復我們總共前後四天你們本來內部說多久要回復有沒有超過"},{"start":699.818,"end":712.587,"text":"超過我們固定的時間這個我們要檢討這個要檢討而且呢到時候要確認一下這樣是不是又變成三級治安事件統計起來教育部可能會變成所有部會的第一名這個真的是不應該這樣學習應該是很安心很安全公文系統當機的問題真的不要再發生最後想要講啦"},{"start":718.05,"end":731.883,"text":"相關的這些火災﹑跳電﹑電氣因素﹑火氣因素﹑配電盤因素﹑甚至地震等狀況﹑是不是可以納入相關業務的單位﹑包含公文系統一起進行資安演練﹑這一題可不可以跟我們說﹑可以或不可以?"},{"start":737.542,"end":762.807,"text":"最後我們想講就是教育部這幾次的資安事件真的是令社會大眾對於教育部的資安防護產生了疑慮更令大眾有所不滿其實黑箱的作業真的是非常可怕沒有一個事件的發生原因的細節被公開後續的處理跟未來檢討改善也沒有完整的公布在陽光底下供我們來檢視甚至連教育部的部長都被關進了這個黑箱被遮蓋在這個"},{"start":763.567,"end":791.397,"text":"教育部裡頭兩個禮拜沒有出現在立法院我要跟市長講今天我們提出的問題教育部一定要盡快提出解決的辦法以及配套的措施也希望跟部長這個幫忙轉達一下不知道他在布裡面還是在黑箱裡面都沒有關係希望他還是很安全不然我們可能要那個龍無霸格要貼在部長身上雖然要卸任了無法逃避去解決這些問題希望下個禮拜我們可以看到部長出現在委員會好好善盡備詢的義務可以嗎"},{"start":793.157,"end":793.357,"text":"葛如鈞"}]}}}}