{"id":150985,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150985","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948ee6ac2dfedb7c95622d211db49933aca9f8ba9b0039caa7a6142f2a7614d0e9965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:47:13 - 11:58:18","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":665,"end_time":"2024-04-10T11:58:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T11:47:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":998,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時47分）有請次長。"],["主席：有請林次長。"],["林次長明裕：謝謝委員。"],["吳委員春城：次長好。不曉得次長有聽過壯世代嗎？"],["林次長明裕：有。"],["吳委員春城：你有聽過。"],["林次長明裕：您的書好像有寫過。"],["吳委員春城：那個書你有看過嗎？"],["林次長明裕：沒有全部翻閱。"],["吳委員春城：沒有看過。"],["林次長明裕：是，但是久仰。"],["吳委員春城：有概念？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["吳委員春城：謝謝。這裡也跟你請願，壯世代是指55+、55歲以上，現在有800萬人，這800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學。首先，我不是在講老人的事情，我現在講的是年輕人的事情，不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題：搶救下一代的教育。教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展，對不對？要去的地方是哪裡？他們未來在什麼戰場上面發揮所長？","明年畢業的大學生一腳跨出校園，就踏入了什麼社會？超高齡社會，就是5個人裡面有1個是65歲以上。當這些孩子30歲的時候，也就是2034年，臺灣一半人口超過了50歲；當這些孩子40歲，應該是人生最有主力的時候，也就是2045年，臺灣一半人口超過60歲。意思就是我們現在培育的大學生一輩子都在高齡社會裡面，所以高齡社會是他們的戰場，是嗎？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["吳委員春城：次長認同這個嗎？"],["林次長明裕：委員關切的是未來的環境、未來學的一部分。"],["吳委員春城：對。"],["林次長明裕：委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個主力，對於現在的年輕人、即將畢業的，在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境、戰場，現在委員看到了，我非常地佩服。"],["吳委員春城：現在以教育部來講，所有的教育目的一定要有目標，要培養他們未來在什麼舞臺、什麼戰場上面，所以為什麼我要去談這個社會，因為這是世代的問題，世代共融的問題。現在教育部緣木求魚，不如退而結網，這句話是什麼意思？次長，緣木求魚是什麼意思？"],["林次長明裕：就是去樹上找魚，不如結網來捕魚。"],["吳委員春城：對，所以就是方法不對。"],["林次長明裕：方法論。"],["吳委員春城：針對剛才所說的環境，最近這幾件事情都是教育部的重中之重，很重要的，因為少子化，所以大學要退場，年輕人一定是越來越少，但是我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展，這叫「緣木求魚」。針對大學退場、少子化，教育部有什麼因應之策？是看著它倒嗎？有沒有什麼辦法可以擋住它？"],["林次長明裕：也不會，假設高等教育是個市場論，因為缺乏競爭力，比如師資不夠、財務不健全，導致它退場、離場，我們安頓好師生的狀態之下，我覺得這是一個比較公平的教育興革。"],["吳委員春城：但是看起來這個浪潮是擋不住的。"],["林次長明裕：是擋不住的。"],["吳委員春城：遲早會一家一家倒，倒得越來越少。第二個就是大學USR，我也做過大學USR的評審，我看了很多案例，大部分都在鼓勵年輕人、年輕學子去做社區服務，社區大部分都是老人，所以基本上動力都是在年輕人，老人是被服務的。再來談地方創生，你們也鼓勵年輕人到窮鄉僻壤去創業，也不管老人，這些都沒有老人的事情，都是年輕人的事情，這就叫緣木求魚。越來越少的……"],["林次長明裕：就是所有的責任都讓年輕人去負擔。"],["吳委員春城：這麼龐大的人力，55+不管在社區或鄉村裡面都視為無用之物，我們的教育怎麼看待他們？為什麼這叫退而結網，這麼龐大，未來三分之一掌握臺灣智庫、掌握經驗、掌握財富的人口，我們視為無用人力。我們的教育要培養國家人力，但是一直想要從這個方向就叫作緣木求魚，所以這個要結成一個網，這個網不是世代對立，這個網是世代和諧共融，但是我們往往只看到一邊。所以我要在這裡談的是，我們要重啟這些人，這些人不是你現在看到的那樣是沒有用的老人，我現在跟各部會溝通，大部分都認為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情，就是遊山玩水、含飴弄孫，其他的都沒有了，所有部會的政策幾乎都是這樣的處理。但是這個部分未來會占臺灣人口的一半，如果完全不看這些事情……"],["林次長明裕：所以我們要重新定位、定義。"],["吳委員春城：所以我們要好好地教育這些人，這就叫第三人生大學，大家常常在講我們也有第三人生大學，像樂齡大學、社區大學，有些還有松年大學，有的沒的很多，怎麼會沒有在做，次長認為那些做的是什麼？"],["林次長明裕：休閒健康為主。"],["吳委員春城：基本上是以休閒健康為主的樂齡，跟我們現在要把他當作重要人力的落差實在是非常大。部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學，我們現在也有在研討，也有在跟終身教育司溝通，我也看到他們的努力，但是我看到整個部還是會回到老人的事情就是終身教育司的事情，跟其他的部會無關。"],["林次長明裕：有的跟高等教育也有關。"],["吳委員春城：所以高教司要下來，高教司的思維好像還是認為他們是服務18歲的年輕學子，老人的事情跟它無關，這種觀念……"],["林次長明裕：有時候要突破這個思維。"],["吳委員春城：其實這件事情大家一直都有這種看法，但是因為體制、部門的劃分，所以往往又回到原來舊方法的處理，往往無疾而終，我們難得經過這些溝通，部長、次長也都有看到這個部分，是不是可以請上面的長官下來組成一個小組親自督導，成立第三人生大學的規劃小組，由次長專責督導，彙整部內相關資訊，用一種新的思維，同樣的來辦大學？剛才也提到第三人生大學，某一方面也可以利用這些現有的大學，因為少子化，現在又有800萬這麼龐大的人口想進大學，他最大遺憾就是沒進大學。如果從一個教育投資的觀念來講，這麼大的市場怎麼會沒有看到？我如果是生意人、企業家的話，看到這麼大的市場一定馬上趕快去做，但是我們的官員都會用體制來做很多的限制。","像這裡也提到來自很多國外的大學，現在都已經很重視這一塊，像日本經濟大學、廣島大學，現在都有真正的學制，甚至有鼓勵高齡者就學的研究所。當然現在也不是要制定或需要一個很詳細的計畫，不是只有制定辦法，要調查學校的意願，鼓勵公私立學校的參與，在於你提出什麼政策來鼓勵、來啟動，包括課程方面，它跟第一人生不是同樣的課程，而是要針對不同年齡，16歲開始進大學學習和60歲學的東西一定不一樣，他們所念的經濟學也一定不一樣，即使所念的是同樣學門，方法也一定不一樣，這是教學的重點。"],["林次長明裕：清華大學有個「貢學院」，貢獻所學的學院，它是給年齡比較高的人唸的，這個可以借鏡。"],["吳委員春城：最後，次長，針對剛才講的幾個重點，最重要的就是要很認真，而且要宣示，教育部做這個宣示的意義非凡，告訴大家第三人生需要進大學，好不好？"],["林次長明裕：第三人生大學我們來做一個規劃，請所有的單位一起來努力，提出可行的方案。"],["吳委員春城：次長有給予承諾，你們會成立專案小組，請各司來……"],["林次長明裕：我們請終身司和高教司一起進來。"],["吳委員春城：高教司要一起進來，謝謝。"],["林次長明裕：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:52,377\n大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個\n\n5\n00:01:55,530 --> 00:02:07,599\n臺灣一半人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場\n\n6\n00:02:10,260 --> 00:02:27,793\n委員關切的是未來的環境未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境戰場\n\n7\n00:02:31,976 --> 00:02:52,765\n現在委員看到了我非常的佩服是那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題\n\n8\n00:02:54,246 --> 00:03:12,202\n那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚啦不如結網來捕魚啦對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對\n\n9\n00:03:15,065 --> 00:03:34,047\n現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少\n\n10\n00:03:35,305 --> 00:03:54,345\n但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策\n\n11\n00:03:56,035 --> 00:03:59,118\n看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說資資什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場\n\n12\n00:04:12,811 --> 00:04:12,911\n吳春城議員\n\n13\n00:04:42,871 --> 00:04:43,332\n吳春城議員\n\n14\n00:05:01,212 --> 00:05:01,352\n吳春城議員\n\n15\n00:05:19,278 --> 00:05:40,784\n我們的教育怎麼看著他們,那我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨\n\n16\n00:05:41,585 --> 00:05:54,966\n這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人\n\n17\n00:05:56,625 --> 00:06:21,276\n這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水寒你弄孫那其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸\n\n18\n00:06:23,235 --> 00:06:47,183\n完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些還有松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢\n\n19\n00:06:49,706 --> 00:07:05,390\n這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大\n\n20\n00:07:07,851 --> 00:07:23,628\n所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢\n\n21\n00:07:24,389 --> 00:07:51,290\n我看到了整個的布還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關係對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這一個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維\n\n22\n00:07:52,051 --> 00:08:08,047\n所以這件事情其實這件事情我想都一直有大家也有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分所以往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理\n\n23\n00:08:09,068 --> 00:08:09,108\n吳春城議員\n\n24\n00:08:28,394 --> 00:08:43,026\n成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學來\n\n25\n00:08:44,887 --> 00:09:07,344\n其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人\n\n26\n00:09:08,004 --> 00:09:08,625\n主席\n\n27\n00:09:21,141 --> 00:09:21,261\n吳春城議員\n\n28\n00:09:41,909 --> 00:10:04,823\n現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲\n\n29\n00:10:06,604 --> 00:10:35,527\n那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓\n\n30\n00:10:36,448 --> 00:10:36,468\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1786\t3067\t市長有聽過《壯世代》嗎?有您的書好像有寫過\n28174\t55408\t那個書你有看過嗎?沒有全部翻譯沒有看過,好有概念,好,謝謝那這裡也跟你請願啦,現在有壯世代是指55家啦,55歲上,現在有800萬人啦那這個800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學那首先,這個我不在講老人的事情我現在講的是年輕人的事情\n57288\t83641\t不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題搶救下一代的教育那教育我們教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展嘛對不對要去的地方要去的地方他們未來在什麼戰場上面來發揮他所長那跟這個現在在校等一下上一頁這個明年畢業的\n85322\t112377\t大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個\n115530\t127599\t臺灣一半人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場\n130260\t147793\t委員關切的是未來的環境 未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境 戰場\n151976\t172765\t現在委員看到了我非常的佩服是 那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題\n174246\t192202\t那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚啦不如結網來捕魚啦對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對\n195065\t214047\t現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少\n215305\t234345\t但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策\n236035\t239118\t看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說資資什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場\n252811\t252911\t吳春城議員\n282871\t283332\t吳春城議員\n301212\t301352\t吳春城議員\n319278\t340784\t我們的教育怎麼看著他們,那我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨\n341585\t354966\t這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人\n356625\t381276\t這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水寒你弄孫那其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸\n383235\t407183\t完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些還有松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢\n409706\t425390\t這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大\n427851\t443628\t所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢\n444389\t471290\t我看到了整個的布還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關係對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這一個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維\n472051\t488047\t所以這件事情其實這件事情我想都一直有大家也有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分所以往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理\n489068\t489108\t吳春城議員\n508394\t523026\t成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學來\n524887\t547344\t其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人\n548004\t548625\t主席\n561141\t561261\t吳春城議員\n581909\t604823\t現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲\n606604\t635527\t那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓\n636448\t636468\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"市長有聽過《壯世代》嗎?有您的書好像有寫過\n那個書你有看過嗎?沒有全部翻譯沒有看過,好有概念,好,謝謝那這裡也跟你請願啦,現在有壯世代是指55家啦,55歲上,現在有800萬人啦那這個800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學那首先,這個我不在講老人的事情我現在講的是年輕人的事情\n不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題搶救下一代的教育那教育我們教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展嘛對不對要去的地方要去的地方他們未來在什麼戰場上面來發揮他所長那跟這個現在在校等一下上一頁這個明年畢業的\n大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個\n臺灣一半人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場\n委員關切的是未來的環境 未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境 戰場\n現在委員看到了我非常的佩服是 那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題\n那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚啦不如結網來捕魚啦對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對\n現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少\n但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策\n看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說資資什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場\n吳春城議員\n吳春城議員\n吳春城議員\n我們的教育怎麼看著他們,那我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨\n這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人\n這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水寒你弄孫那其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸\n完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些還有松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢\n這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大\n所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢\n我看到了整個的布還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關係對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這一個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維\n所以這件事情其實這件事情我想都一直有大家也有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分所以往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理\n吳春城議員\n成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學來\n其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人\n主席\n吳春城議員\n現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲\n那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.786 --> 00:03.067\n市長有聽過《壯世代》嗎?有您的書好像有寫過\n\n00:28.174 --> 00:55.408\n那個書你有看過嗎?沒有全部翻譯沒有看過,好有概念,好,謝謝那這裡也跟你請願啦,現在有壯世代是指55家啦,55歲上,現在有800萬人啦那這個800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學那首先,這個我不在講老人的事情我現在講的是年輕人的事情\n\n00:57.288 --> 01:23.641\n不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題搶救下一代的教育那教育我們教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展嘛對不對要去的地方要去的地方他們未來在什麼戰場上面來發揮他所長那跟這個現在在校等一下上一頁這個明年畢業的\n\n01:25.322 --> 01:52.377\n大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個\n\n01:55.530 --> 02:07.599\n臺灣一半人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場\n\n02:10.260 --> 02:27.793\n委員關切的是未來的環境未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境戰場\n\n02:31.976 --> 02:52.765\n現在委員看到了我非常的佩服是那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題\n\n02:54.246 --> 03:12.202\n那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚啦不如結網來捕魚啦對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對\n\n03:15.065 --> 03:34.047\n現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少\n\n03:35.305 --> 03:54.345\n但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策\n\n03:56.035 --> 03:59.118\n看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說資資什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場\n\n04:12.811 --> 04:12.911\n吳春城議員\n\n04:42.871 --> 04:43.332\n吳春城議員\n\n05:01.212 --> 05:01.352\n吳春城議員\n\n05:19.278 --> 05:40.784\n我們的教育怎麼看著他們,那我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨\n\n05:41.585 --> 05:54.966\n這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人\n\n05:56.625 --> 06:21.276\n這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水寒你弄孫那其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸\n\n06:23.235 --> 06:47.183\n完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些還有松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢\n\n06:49.706 --> 07:05.390\n這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大\n\n07:07.851 --> 07:23.628\n所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢\n\n07:24.389 --> 07:51.290\n我看到了整個的布還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關係對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這一個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維\n\n07:52.051 --> 08:08.047\n所以這件事情其實這件事情我想都一直有大家也有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分所以往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理\n\n08:09.068 --> 08:09.108\n吳春城議員\n\n08:28.394 --> 08:43.026\n成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學來\n\n08:44.887 --> 09:07.344\n其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人\n\n09:08.004 --> 09:08.625\n主席\n\n09:21.141 --> 09:21.261\n吳春城議員\n\n09:41.909 --> 10:04.823\n現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲\n\n10:06.604 --> 10:35.527\n那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓\n\n10:36.448 --> 10:36.468\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.786,"end":3.067,"text":"市長有聽過《壯世代》嗎?有您的書好像有寫過"},{"start":28.174,"end":55.408,"text":"那個書你有看過嗎?沒有全部翻譯沒有看過,好有概念,好,謝謝那這裡也跟你請願啦,現在有壯世代是指55家啦,55歲上,現在有800萬人啦那這個800萬的壯世代需要第三人生大學那首先,這個我不在講老人的事情我現在講的是年輕人的事情"},{"start":57.288,"end":83.641,"text":"不曉得教育部有沒有看到這個問題搶救下一代的教育那教育我們教育的目的無非就是培養他們未來要往什麼方向發展嘛對不對要去的地方要去的地方他們未來在什麼戰場上面來發揮他所長那跟這個現在在校等一下上一頁這個明年畢業的"},{"start":85.322,"end":112.377,"text":"大學生一腳跨出校園就踏入了什麼?踏入什麼社會?超高齡社會就是五個人就一個人65歲那當這個孩子30歲的時候也就2034年臺灣一半人口超過了50歲當這個孩子40歲的時候應該是人生主力最後主力的時候2045年這個"},{"start":115.53,"end":127.599,"text":"臺灣一半人口超過60歲那意思就是什麼我們現在培育的孩子、大學生他一輩子都在什麼社會高齡社會裡面所以高齡社會是他們的戰場"},{"start":130.26,"end":147.793,"text":"委員關切的是未來的環境 未來學的一部分那委員看到未來壯世代很可能會形成一個阻力對於現在的年輕人即將畢業的在過往以前我們都沒有考慮到他們所面臨的處境 戰場"},{"start":151.976,"end":172.765,"text":"現在委員看到了我非常的佩服是 那個教育部現在因為說教育目的一定是要目標嘛要培養他未來在什麼什麼舞台什麼戰場上面所以這一點為什麼我要去談這個的社會這不是一個這是世代的問題世代共同的問題"},{"start":174.246,"end":192.202,"text":"那現在這個教育部緣木求雨不如退而結網這句話什麼意思緣木求雨這個次長什麼意思就是去手上找魚啦不如結網來捕魚啦對所以就是方法不對嘛方法不對"},{"start":195.065,"end":214.047,"text":"現在針對剛才這樣一個環境我想教育部最近這幾個事情都是教育部的重中之重很重要的因為少子化所以大學要退場大學要退場這一個就是說明星人一定是越來越少"},{"start":215.305,"end":234.345,"text":"但是呢我們現在原木這個木就是說我們一直想要從這個越來越少的市場裡面來求教育的發展這叫原木求雨你看的我不曉得這個大學退場少子化教育部有什麼因應之策"},{"start":236.035,"end":239.118,"text":"看著他倒這樣子有沒有什麼方法可以擋住他?因為這一個假設教育是個市場論那他因為缺乏競爭力比如說資資什麼不夠財務不健全他退場離場"},{"start":252.811,"end":252.911,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":282.871,"end":283.332,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":301.212,"end":301.352,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":319.278,"end":340.784,"text":"我們的教育怎麼看著他們,那我們現在當然,所以為什麼這叫退而結往這麼龐大未來三分之一人口掌握台灣的智庫,掌握經驗,掌握財富的人,我們視為無用的人力我們教育要培養國家的人力,但是一直想要從這個叫做緣木求雨"},{"start":341.585,"end":354.966,"text":"這個要結成一個網這網不是世代對立這網是世代和諧共榮但是我們往往只看到一邊所以要在這裡談的就是我們要重啟這些人"},{"start":356.625,"end":381.276,"text":"這些人也不是說你現在看他就沒路影啊就老人就是這樣因為我現在跟各部會溝通我們大部分都把視為65歲以後只剩下兩件事情啦游山玩水寒你弄孫那其他的都沒有啊就是沒有所有的教育部所有的部會的政策幾乎都是這樣子的處理但是這裡未來會佔台灣人口一半欸"},{"start":383.235,"end":407.183,"text":"完全不看這些事情所以我們要重新定位定義所以這些人我們要給他好的教育根本就叫做第三人生大學第三人生大學跟現在常常講我們有啊我們也有啊樂齡大學對不對社區大學有些還有松年大學有的沒的這很多的啊怎麼會沒有在做呢"},{"start":409.706,"end":425.39,"text":"這個那個次長認為那些做的是以休閒健康為主的熱領基本上就熱領跟我們現在的就是要把它作為重要的人力的落差是非常大"},{"start":427.851,"end":443.628,"text":"所以現在當然部長也有承諾要來規劃第三人生大學我們現在也有在研討也有在跟中生教育師也有在溝通我也看到他們努力但是呢"},{"start":444.389,"end":471.29,"text":"我看到了整個的布還是會回到一個這些老人的事情就是終身教育師的事情跟其他的部會沒有關係有的跟高人教育也有關係對,跟高人,所以高教師要下來是他好像,高教師還是會認為說這個跟他思維,他們就是服務那18歲的年輕學子然後呢,這一個老人就是,老人的事情跟他無關這種觀念,陳固的觀念有時候要突破這個思維"},{"start":472.051,"end":488.047,"text":"所以這件事情其實這件事情我想都一直有大家也有這種看法但是因為體制部門的劃分所以往往又回到原來的舊的方法的處理"},{"start":489.068,"end":489.108,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":508.394,"end":523.026,"text":"成立第三人生大學的一個規劃小組由次長專責的督導來部內相關的個資用一種新的思維然後要以同樣辦大學來"},{"start":524.887,"end":547.344,"text":"其實這個某一方面剛才提到第三人生大學可以救這些現在大學因為少子化這麼龐大現在有800萬人想進大學想進這個大學因為他最大遺憾就是沒進大學那這樣子如果從一個教育投資的觀點來講這麼大的市場怎麼會看到我如果是生意人"},{"start":548.004,"end":548.625,"text":"主席"},{"start":561.141,"end":561.261,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":581.909,"end":604.823,"text":"現在也不是說制定一個需要一個很詳細的計畫不是只有制定辦法這個要谷調查學校的意願鼓勵公私立學校的參與你用什麼政策來鼓勵來啟動那包括當然課程這一個不是用他不是跟第一人生跟同樣的一些課程他不同年齡18歲"},{"start":606.604,"end":635.527,"text":"那16歲開始進大學學習的跟60歲學的東西一定不一樣他們所念的經濟學一定也不一樣所念的即使是同樣的學本一定方法也不一樣教學的重點清華大學他有個共學院共縣所學的學院他是年齡比較高的人在念所以最後還是可不可以這個次長可不可以剛才講的那個重點這最重要的就是要很認真有而且要宣誓"},{"start":636.448,"end":636.468,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}}}