{"id":150986,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150986","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948ee7319509817ca346533009c4a7c43105f8ba9b0039caa7a61345feb9e96ac4965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"11:31:56 - 11:39:37","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生醫療發展法草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n【一、二案採綜合詢答，本日會議僅詢答】\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":461,"end_time":"2024-04-10T11:39:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T11:31:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":610,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（11時32分）謝謝主席。請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：部長好。我想要接續剛剛申翰委員提的這個部分，因為黃子佼案已經吵一個禮拜了，但是到目前為止，到底衛福部有什麼具體的作為？我很想知道。就我所知，我第一眼看到的新聞是你們的司長出來說，要跟黃子佼斷絕合作很兩難。對於你們這個聲明，我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關，講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的。"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊！這個是不精確的，所以後來我們就發新的聲明……"],["黃委員捷：部長明確的態度是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作，以前的通通都下架。"],["黃委員捷：你們一定要站穩立場！你們從一開始就非常嚴重的失言，我認為衛福部應該要給大家信心、做大家的後盾才對，拜託你們打擊未成年的性私密影像一定要非常積極才對。"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。"],["黃委員捷：很多人都在討論，接下來到底怎麼防制？剛剛申翰委員也有說，現在防制的機制是不是不足，才會導致這樣的犯罪型態不斷重複上演，可以看到這種偷拍行為幾乎是以一種產業化、集團式的在犯罪，這種犯罪產業會存在就是因為有人想看、有這樣的消費市場，像黃子佼不斷地花錢購買，甚至成為了高級會員。兒少性剝削條例在去年也有修法，持有就算犯罪，我當然很肯定不斷地有在進步，只是這個產業鏈到底最後要怎麼斷掉，是我們現在要討論的。因為這次黃子佼的事件，我去看了一下法律，其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了，包括兒少性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄，兒少性剝削犯罪也必須要接受一定的輔導，還有包括如果有散播這些性影像也要處以重刑，原本是3年以下，現在已經加重到1到7年，這些都是目前法律就有的規範，但可以再討論到底要怎麼加重刑度。我認為現在最重要的是對於這種犯罪的樣態，我們到底漏掉了什麼？我想問一下臺版N號房，也就是創意私房，其實現在去搜尋都還搜尋得到，什麼時候衛福部要把它斷網？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為這個網站在國外，數位部已經說技術上沒有問題，我們就趕快發文給他們，先把它斷掉。"],["黃委員捷：什麼時候？今天？"],["薛部長瑞元：今天可以。"],["黃委員捷：好，今天馬上發文就把這個網站再次斷網，他們重啟爐灶一次，你們就去斷一次，有辦法做到嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。但是就像剛剛洪申翰委員問的一樣，我們要有這個權力去搜尋。"],["黃委員捷：你們為什麼沒有權力去搜尋？"],["薛部長瑞元：這有一點問題，我們搜尋當然不會……有時候……"],["黃委員捷：你們已經封過他們一次、兩次了，現在再去封他們第三次，有什麼問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們搜尋並不是針對某一個名稱的網站，因為它可能改一個名、改一個字，用原來的名稱就搜尋不到了。我的意思是，可能要授權讓我們能夠去巡航。"],["黃委員捷：誰要授權你們？"],["薛部長瑞元：法律要授權。因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題，但是我們去搜尋，並不是一個一個去看，而是用數位的技術來處理，把可疑的網站找出來，這樣才能夠……"],["黃委員捷：當然，我覺得現在衛福部要主動出擊。"],["薛部長瑞元：這樣才能夠一次一次……我們……"],["黃委員捷：剛剛我們有把相關的法條找出來，其實你們要做到主動出擊並且把這些僵屍網站一個一個封網，就現行法律，你們是做得到的吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：剛剛委員在講的那種狀況的話，我們會有困難，也就是我把它封掉了，但它另外找一個網域、改一個名字，就又跑出來。"],["黃委員捷：你封完它，它下一秒又復活，現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多！"],["薛部長瑞元：我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法主動搜尋出來，這個還沒有……"],["黃委員捷：可不可以馬上跟數發部來討論，如何在技術層面上突破這個困難，把這些僵屍網站、臺版N號房就此杜絕？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們可以試試看跟數發部來討論。"],["黃委員捷：今天就先去把這個搜尋得到的網站馬上封掉，然後其他類似的僵屍網站、臺版N號房網站，你們什麼時候可以討論出一個具體的作法？"],["薛部長瑞元：我沒有辦法跟委員談一個時間點，因為這裡面除了技術的部分，還必須要有法律……"],["黃委員捷：也一樣，兩週內至少給出一個你們大概草擬的方案，也就是接下來可以有的一些具體作法，這樣可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：OK。"],["黃委員捷：好，這個要拜託部長。最後我想要講一下，因為現在除了技術上到底怎麼去斷掉他們的網站之外，還有一個方式是金流，我希望衛福部可以跟金管會、法務部討論看看，可不可以從中斷掉這一些產業鏈的購買行為？因為看了一下，他們現在的支付方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者微信，甚至是用國外的銀行帳戶在支付。針對虛擬貨幣詐欺案，法務部有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具，可以追蹤到這些金流並且得知實質的使用者是誰。我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式直接破解這個產業鏈，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這就是另外一個要去處理的方法。因為把金流斷掉，第一個、如果是國外網站，也許它還有全世界的其他客戶，所以對它的經營不會有影響。但是我們可以藉由金流去找出來……"],["黃委員捷：至少我們限制臺灣人去這種非法的網站消費嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，我剛剛跟申翰委員報告的就是這一點，我們在技術上可以追得到誰在付錢、看這個網站，所以……"],["黃委員捷：追到了就等於是找得到這一些有購買行為的人，而這些消費者本身就是性犯罪的共犯！"],["薛部長瑞元：所以要請全國民眾注意，就是……"],["黃委員捷：以上這幾點拜託開始進行更實質的執行，我們一定要杜絕整個性犯罪的產業鏈，好嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["黃委員捷：你要有這樣的宣誓，謝謝部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員發言。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","邱議瑩","羅廷瑋","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","林淑芬","洪申翰","黃捷","賴士葆","陳瑩","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","楊曜","劉建國","邱鎮軍","林德福","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生\n醫療法草案」案、(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案；二、審查(一)委員邱議瑩\n等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例\n草案」案、( 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,463 --> 00:00:11,105\n邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案案規定\n\n2\n00:00:33,698 --> 00:00:59,191\n其實我只看到你們讓我第一眼看到的新聞是說你們司長出來說要跟黃子嬌斷絕這個合作很兩難啊你們這個聲明我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的對啊這個是不精確的所以後來我們就發生那部長你的明確的態度是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:59,991 --> 00:01:23,870\n對,就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作。這個你們一定要站穩立場。好,那這個你們從一開始就是一個非常嚴重的失言。我認為作為衛福部你們應該要給大家信心做大家的後盾才對。這拜託一定要這個打擊未成年的性私密影像,這你們一定要非常積極才對。當然。\n\n4\n00:01:25,091 --> 00:01:51,336\n那當然很多人都在討論說那接下來到底怎麼防治剛剛深海委員有講說發現我們現在防治的機制是不是不足才會導致這樣的犯罪形態不斷的重複上演那可以看到現在這種偷拍行為它已經是幾乎是一種產業化集團式的在犯罪那這種犯罪產業的會存在就是因為有人想看嘛就是有這樣的一個消費市場所以才像黃子佼他會不斷的花錢去購買甚至成為了高級會員\n\n5\n00:01:54,136 --> 00:02:13,921\n那所以我們其實而肖性剝削條例在去年也有修法就是說持有你就算犯罪這個是我當然很肯定說我們不斷的有在進步只是說這個產業鏈到底最後怎麼斷掉這個是我們現在要討論的那當然其實這一次黃子佼的事件我去看了一下法律其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了\n\n6\n00:02:14,941 --> 00:02:43,179\n包括說就是現在兒童這種性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄然後這個兒童性剝缺的犯罪他也必須要接受一定的輔導那還有包括說如果你有散播這些性影像的話也是要予以重刑原本是三年以下現在已經加重到一到七年這個都是目前法律就有的規範但刑度可以再討論到底要怎麼加重但我認為現在最重要的是這種犯罪的樣態我們到底漏掉了什麼\n\n7\n00:02:43,979 --> 00:02:44,800\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n\n8\n00:02:55,281 --> 00:03:21,117\n因為這個網站是在國外所以我想數位部如果他已經講說他們技術上面沒有問題那我們就趕快發文給他們什麼時候今天今天可以好今天馬上發文就去把這個網站再次的斷網他們重啟爐灶一次你們就去斷一次有辦法做到嗎當然但是這裡我就是像剛剛盛鴻榮在問的一樣\n\n9\n00:03:23,072 --> 00:03:50,768\n我們要有這個權利去做搜尋。你們為什麼沒有權利去搜尋?這有一點問題。我們搜尋當然不會...你們已經封過他們一次兩次了,現在再去封他們第三次有什麼問題?我的搜尋的話並不是說針對某一個名稱的網站。我們必須要...因為他可能改個名、改個字啊。\n\n10\n00:03:51,704 --> 00:04:20,275\n你就用原來的名稱你就搜尋不到所以我們意思就是說可能要能夠授權我們能夠去巡航誰要授權你們法律要授權因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題但是我們去搜尋並不是說一個一個去看而是用技術這個數位的技術來做處理那把這個可疑的網站把它找出來\n\n11\n00:04:21,135 --> 00:04:24,699\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事\n\n12\n00:04:41,255 --> 00:05:01,980\n是剛剛委員在講的那種狀況的話我們會有困難也就是說我把他封掉了然後他又另外找一個網易用改革因素他就跑出來你封完他他下一秒又復活現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多所以我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法去主動搜尋出來的話\n\n13\n00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:02,861\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療\n\n14\n00:05:14,084 --> 00:05:16,146\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n\n15\n00:05:43,604 --> 00:05:44,024\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n16\n00:06:05,010 --> 00:06:29,559\n因為他們現在去看一下他們現在這種支付的方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者有人用微信甚至是他們是用國外的網站的國外的銀行帳戶在支付那這種其實法務部也有針對像是這種虛擬貨幣的詐欺案他們有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具可以追蹤到這些金流並且這些實質的這些使用者是誰\n\n17\n00:06:30,379 --> 00:06:56,494\n我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式去直接破解這個產業鏈,可以嗎?這就是另外一個方法,要去處理的一個方法。因為如果把金流斷掉的話,第一個就是說,如果它是國外網站,也許它還有全世界其他的客戶,所以對它的經驗不會有影響,但是我們是可以藉由金流去保住。我們限制台灣人去在這種非法的網站消費嘛。\n\n18\n00:06:57,174 --> 00:07:20,103\n對啊所以這一個部分的話其實就是我剛剛有跟盛浩文報告的就是在這一點我們是技術上可以去追得到誰在付錢看這個網站是的對那我所以我追到了就等於是我們找得到這一些去有購買行為的人而這些消費者他本身就是性犯罪的共犯嗎\n\n19\n00:07:21,231 --> 00:07:36,682\n草案：一、審查proporto全國民眾注意以上這幾點拜託我們開始進行更實質的去執行我們一定要杜絕這整個性犯罪的產業鏈好嗎你要這樣的宣示謝謝部長謝謝黃婕委員發言接下來請賴氏寶\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8463\t11105\t邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案 案 案 規定\n33698\t59191\t其實我只看到你們讓我第一眼看到的新聞是說你們司長出來說要跟黃子嬌斷絕這個合作很兩難啊你們這個聲明我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的對啊這個是不精確的所以後來我們就發生那部長你的明確的態度是什麼\n59991\t83870\t對,就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作。這個你們一定要站穩立場。好,那這個你們從一開始就是一個非常嚴重的失言。我認為作為衛福部你們應該要給大家信心做大家的後盾才對。這拜託一定要這個打擊未成年的性私密影像,這你們一定要非常積極才對。當然。\n85091\t111336\t那當然很多人都在討論說那接下來到底怎麼防治剛剛深海委員有講說發現我們現在防治的機制是不是不足才會導致這樣的犯罪形態不斷的重複上演那可以看到現在這種偷拍行為它已經是幾乎是一種產業化集團式的在犯罪那這種犯罪產業的會存在就是因為有人想看嘛就是有這樣的一個消費市場所以才像黃子佼他會不斷的花錢去購買甚至成為了高級會員\n114136\t133921\t那所以我們其實而肖性剝削條例在去年也有修法就是說持有你就算犯罪這個是我當然很肯定說我們不斷的有在進步只是說這個產業鏈到底最後怎麼斷掉這個是我們現在要討論的那當然其實這一次黃子佼的事件我去看了一下法律其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了\n134941\t163179\t包括說就是現在兒童這種性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄然後這個兒童性剝缺的犯罪他也必須要接受一定的輔導那還有包括說如果你有散播這些性影像的話也是要予以重刑原本是三年以下現在已經加重到一到七年這個都是目前法律就有的規範但刑度可以再討論到底要怎麼加重但我認為現在最重要的是這種犯罪的樣態我們到底漏掉了什麼\n163979\t164800\t邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n175281\t201117\t因為這個網站是在國外所以我想數位部如果他已經講說他們技術上面沒有問題那我們就趕快發文給他們什麼時候今天今天可以好今天馬上發文就去把這個網站再次的斷網他們重啟爐灶一次你們就去斷一次有辦法做到嗎當然但是這裡我就是像剛剛盛鴻榮在問的一樣\n203072\t230768\t我們要有這個權利去做搜尋。你們為什麼沒有權利去搜尋?這有一點問題。我們搜尋當然不會...你們已經封過他們一次兩次了,現在再去封他們第三次有什麼問題?我的搜尋的話並不是說針對某一個名稱的網站。我們必須要...因為他可能改個名、改個字啊。\n231704\t260275\t你就用原來的名稱你就搜尋不到所以我們意思就是說可能要能夠授權我們能夠去巡航誰要授權你們法律要授權因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題但是我們去搜尋並不是說一個一個去看而是用技術這個數位的技術來做處理那把這個可疑的網站把它找出來\n261135\t264699\t邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事\n281255\t301980\t是剛剛委員在講的那種狀況的話我們會有困難也就是說我把他封掉了然後他又另外找一個網易用改革因素他就跑出來你封完他他下一秒又復活現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多所以我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法去主動搜尋出來的話\n302500\t302861\t邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療\n314084\t316146\t邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n343604\t344024\t獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n365010\t389559\t因為他們現在去看一下他們現在這種支付的方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者有人用微信甚至是他們是用國外的網站的國外的銀行帳戶在支付那這種其實法務部也有針對像是這種虛擬貨幣的詐欺案他們有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具可以追蹤到這些金流並且這些實質的這些使用者是誰\n390379\t416494\t我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式去直接破解這個產業鏈,可以嗎?這就是另外一個方法,要去處理的一個方法。因為如果把金流斷掉的話,第一個就是說,如果它是國外網站,也許它還有全世界其他的客戶,所以對它的經驗不會有影響,但是我們是可以藉由金流去保住。我們限制台灣人去在這種非法的網站消費嘛。\n417174\t440103\t對啊所以這一個部分的話其實就是我剛剛有跟盛浩文報告的就是在這一點我們是技術上可以去追得到誰在付錢看這個網站是的對那我所以我追到了就等於是我們找得到這一些去有購買行為的人而這些消費者他本身就是性犯罪的共犯嗎\n441231\t456682\t草案：一、審查 proporto 全國民眾注意以上這幾點拜託我們開始進行更實質的去執行我們一定要杜絕這整個性犯罪的產業鏈好嗎你要這樣的宣示謝謝部長謝謝黃婕委員發言接下來請賴氏寶\n","txt":"邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案 案 案 規定\n其實我只看到你們讓我第一眼看到的新聞是說你們司長出來說要跟黃子嬌斷絕這個合作很兩難啊你們這個聲明我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的對啊這個是不精確的所以後來我們就發生那部長你的明確的態度是什麼\n對,就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作。這個你們一定要站穩立場。好,那這個你們從一開始就是一個非常嚴重的失言。我認為作為衛福部你們應該要給大家信心做大家的後盾才對。這拜託一定要這個打擊未成年的性私密影像,這你們一定要非常積極才對。當然。\n那當然很多人都在討論說那接下來到底怎麼防治剛剛深海委員有講說發現我們現在防治的機制是不是不足才會導致這樣的犯罪形態不斷的重複上演那可以看到現在這種偷拍行為它已經是幾乎是一種產業化集團式的在犯罪那這種犯罪產業的會存在就是因為有人想看嘛就是有這樣的一個消費市場所以才像黃子佼他會不斷的花錢去購買甚至成為了高級會員\n那所以我們其實而肖性剝削條例在去年也有修法就是說持有你就算犯罪這個是我當然很肯定說我們不斷的有在進步只是說這個產業鏈到底最後怎麼斷掉這個是我們現在要討論的那當然其實這一次黃子佼的事件我去看了一下法律其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了\n包括說就是現在兒童這種性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄然後這個兒童性剝缺的犯罪他也必須要接受一定的輔導那還有包括說如果你有散播這些性影像的話也是要予以重刑原本是三年以下現在已經加重到一到七年這個都是目前法律就有的規範但刑度可以再討論到底要怎麼加重但我認為現在最重要的是這種犯罪的樣態我們到底漏掉了什麼\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n因為這個網站是在國外所以我想數位部如果他已經講說他們技術上面沒有問題那我們就趕快發文給他們什麼時候今天今天可以好今天馬上發文就去把這個網站再次的斷網他們重啟爐灶一次你們就去斷一次有辦法做到嗎當然但是這裡我就是像剛剛盛鴻榮在問的一樣\n我們要有這個權利去做搜尋。你們為什麼沒有權利去搜尋?這有一點問題。我們搜尋當然不會...你們已經封過他們一次兩次了,現在再去封他們第三次有什麼問題?我的搜尋的話並不是說針對某一個名稱的網站。我們必須要...因為他可能改個名、改個字啊。\n你就用原來的名稱你就搜尋不到所以我們意思就是說可能要能夠授權我們能夠去巡航誰要授權你們法律要授權因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題但是我們去搜尋並不是說一個一個去看而是用技術這個數位的技術來做處理那把這個可疑的網站把它找出來\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事\n是剛剛委員在講的那種狀況的話我們會有困難也就是說我把他封掉了然後他又另外找一個網易用改革因素他就跑出來你封完他他下一秒又復活現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多所以我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法去主動搜尋出來的話\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n因為他們現在去看一下他們現在這種支付的方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者有人用微信甚至是他們是用國外的網站的國外的銀行帳戶在支付那這種其實法務部也有針對像是這種虛擬貨幣的詐欺案他們有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具可以追蹤到這些金流並且這些實質的這些使用者是誰\n我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式去直接破解這個產業鏈,可以嗎?這就是另外一個方法,要去處理的一個方法。因為如果把金流斷掉的話,第一個就是說,如果它是國外網站,也許它還有全世界其他的客戶,所以對它的經驗不會有影響,但是我們是可以藉由金流去保住。我們限制台灣人去在這種非法的網站消費嘛。\n對啊所以這一個部分的話其實就是我剛剛有跟盛浩文報告的就是在這一點我們是技術上可以去追得到誰在付錢看這個網站是的對那我所以我追到了就等於是我們找得到這一些去有購買行為的人而這些消費者他本身就是性犯罪的共犯嗎\n草案：一、審查 proporto 全國民眾注意以上這幾點拜託我們開始進行更實質的去執行我們一定要杜絕這整個性犯罪的產業鏈好嗎你要這樣的宣示謝謝部長謝謝黃婕委員發言接下來請賴氏寶\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.463 --> 00:11.105\n邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案案規定\n\n00:33.698 --> 00:59.191\n其實我只看到你們讓我第一眼看到的新聞是說你們司長出來說要跟黃子嬌斷絕這個合作很兩難啊你們這個聲明我認為作為一個兒少保護的主管機關講這樣的話是沒有人能夠接受的對啊這個是不精確的所以後來我們就發生那部長你的明確的態度是什麼\n\n00:59.991 --> 01:23.870\n對,就是以後沒有機會再跟他合作。這個你們一定要站穩立場。好,那這個你們從一開始就是一個非常嚴重的失言。我認為作為衛福部你們應該要給大家信心做大家的後盾才對。這拜託一定要這個打擊未成年的性私密影像,這你們一定要非常積極才對。當然。\n\n01:25.091 --> 01:51.336\n那當然很多人都在討論說那接下來到底怎麼防治剛剛深海委員有講說發現我們現在防治的機制是不是不足才會導致這樣的犯罪形態不斷的重複上演那可以看到現在這種偷拍行為它已經是幾乎是一種產業化集團式的在犯罪那這種犯罪產業的會存在就是因為有人想看嘛就是有這樣的一個消費市場所以才像黃子佼他會不斷的花錢去購買甚至成為了高級會員\n\n01:54.136 --> 02:13.921\n那所以我們其實而肖性剝削條例在去年也有修法就是說持有你就算犯罪這個是我當然很肯定說我們不斷的有在進步只是說這個產業鏈到底最後怎麼斷掉這個是我們現在要討論的那當然其實這一次黃子佼的事件我去看了一下法律其實現在法律已經有很多事情可以處理了\n\n02:14.941 --> 02:43.179\n包括說就是現在兒童這種性犯罪本來就會有警政的資料庫去記錄然後這個兒童性剝缺的犯罪他也必須要接受一定的輔導那還有包括說如果你有散播這些性影像的話也是要予以重刑原本是三年以下現在已經加重到一到七年這個都是目前法律就有的規範但刑度可以再討論到底要怎麼加重但我認為現在最重要的是這種犯罪的樣態我們到底漏掉了什麼\n\n02:43.979 --> 02:44.800\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n\n02:55.281 --> 03:21.117\n因為這個網站是在國外所以我想數位部如果他已經講說他們技術上面沒有問題那我們就趕快發文給他們什麼時候今天今天可以好今天馬上發文就去把這個網站再次的斷網他們重啟爐灶一次你們就去斷一次有辦法做到嗎當然但是這裡我就是像剛剛盛鴻榮在問的一樣\n\n03:23.072 --> 03:50.768\n我們要有這個權利去做搜尋。你們為什麼沒有權利去搜尋?這有一點問題。我們搜尋當然不會...你們已經封過他們一次兩次了,現在再去封他們第三次有什麼問題?我的搜尋的話並不是說針對某一個名稱的網站。我們必須要...因為他可能改個名、改個字啊。\n\n03:51.704 --> 04:20.275\n你就用原來的名稱你就搜尋不到所以我們意思就是說可能要能夠授權我們能夠去巡航誰要授權你們法律要授權因為這個可能會有一些隱私的問題但是我們去搜尋並不是說一個一個去看而是用技術這個數位的技術來做處理那把這個可疑的網站把它找出來\n\n04:21.135 --> 04:24.699\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事\n\n04:41.255 --> 05:01.980\n是剛剛委員在講的那種狀況的話我們會有困難也就是說我把他封掉了然後他又另外找一個網易用改革因素他就跑出來你封完他他下一秒又復活現在這種僵屍網站就是非常多所以我們如果沒有辦法借用科技的方法去主動搜尋出來的話\n\n05:02.500 --> 05:02.861\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療\n\n05:14.084 --> 05:16.146\n邱議瑩等21人擬具:「再生醫療法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件\n\n05:43.604 --> 05:44.024\n獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n06:05.010 --> 06:29.559\n因為他們現在去看一下他們現在這種支付的方式可能都是用虛擬貨幣或者有人用微信甚至是他們是用國外的網站的國外的銀行帳戶在支付那這種其實法務部也有針對像是這種虛擬貨幣的詐欺案他們有一些虛擬通貨金流的分析工具可以追蹤到這些金流並且這些實質的這些使用者是誰\n\n06:30.379 --> 06:56.494\n我認為衛福部應該也要用這個方式去直接破解這個產業鏈,可以嗎?這就是另外一個方法,要去處理的一個方法。因為如果把金流斷掉的話,第一個就是說,如果它是國外網站,也許它還有全世界其他的客戶,所以對它的經驗不會有影響,但是我們是可以藉由金流去保住。我們限制台灣人去在這種非法的網站消費嘛。\n\n06:57.174 --> 07:20.103\n對啊所以這一個部分的話其實就是我剛剛有跟盛浩文報告的就是在這一點我們是技術上可以去追得到誰在付錢看這個網站是的對那我所以我追到了就等於是我們找得到這一些去有購買行為的人而這些消費者他本身就是性犯罪的共犯嗎\n\n07:21.231 --> 07:36.682\n草案：一、審查proporto全國民眾注意以上這幾點拜託我們開始進行更實質的去執行我們一定要杜絕這整個性犯罪的產業鏈好嗎你要這樣的宣示謝謝部長謝謝黃婕委員發言接下來請賴氏寶\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.463,"end":11.105,"text":"邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案 案 案 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