{"id":150989,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150989","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e148eee89a6563f032d211db49933aca9f8ba9b0039caa7a6b210e5aacf32087b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"11:58:23 - 12:14:20","影片長度":"00:15:57","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":957,"end_time":"2024-04-10T12:14:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T11:58:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1046,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（11時58分）謝謝召委，請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["林次長明裕：委員好。"],["林委員倩綺：次長好。我們今天在這邊討論專案的主題，在開始之前先跟次長請教，公共化對你來講是什麼意思？這個定義是什麼？"],["林次長明裕：公共化就是公家出錢的。"],["林委員倩綺：就是公家投入了一些錢。我這邊有個建議，其實這樣的主題是在政策主張當中，但是對一般民眾的查詢上會有一些不同概念和想法，像我們在查詢的時候先打了幼教公共化，只有教育部的一篇，後來我們用不同的查詢方式，打進了幼教公共化之後有2萬7,200項，看起來很多人在做；後來又再打進幼兒園公共化，又出現了六萬多項。對於公共化的講法，部裡面是不是要再做一個整理，讓一般民眾都知道你們在談的是這件事情？因為你講得很簡單，就是公家出錢。"],["林次長明裕：我以前也搞不清楚，但是如果要更精準的說，公共化也有教育普及化的概念，所以公家不得不出錢。再來就是包含準公幼，準公幼其實政府也有出錢，但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長，所以那個在我們所有公共化相關的幼兒園建置裡面，它還是歸屬在私幼的一部分，但它跟我們是合作夥伴的關係，所以我們稱為準公幼。"],["林委員倩綺：OK，因為公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項，跟現在新的這個社區互助等等這樣子的一個事務，補助的對象又有一些差異。"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["林委員倩綺：所以我這邊先建議，在公共化這個層面上是不是可以請部裡面公告一個比較正式的說法，讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差？對我們而言，如果以一個部落的講法來講，應該就像部落的分享共治，似乎要達到這樣一個目標，但是看起來又……","次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢，不管是出錢補助這個園區，或者是補助了父母，或者是補助對象上還有很大的差異，所以對一般民眾來講，我想這樣的一個政策主張有一點複雜，所以我這邊提出一個建議，是不是部裡面也對公共化這樣的一個詞有一些解釋？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員倩綺：當然我們透過很多不同的管道，已經知道公共化的一些意思，但是就你們的政策主張，如果能夠講一句大家就能明白的話，可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像。"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["林委員倩綺：這是我的一個建議。"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["林委員倩綺：第二點，我們在查過去制定公共化政策的時候，一直聽到少子化，其實我覺得現在我在社會上聽到少子化的議題引起了很多的問題，大家現在要來解決少子化的問題，投入了很多不同的政策，所以想跟次長請教，在幼教公共化這個部分解決少子化的問題了嗎？"],["林次長明裕：其實少子化的問題我們分十個中央部會在努力解決，幼教公共化是其中的一支。"],["林委員倩綺：所以如果就這一支的話……"],["林次長明裕：減輕父母的負擔，我們用幼教公共化；解決青年就業，可能是勞動部；解決青年創業，可能有經濟部，凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的，都會成為解決少子女化的對策計畫之一。"],["林委員倩綺：OK，所以教育部在這個部分……"],["林次長明裕：我們是負責……"],["林委員倩綺：目前推起來是不是到了一個要檢討跟窒礙難行的狀況？"],["林次長明裕：不會，我們是重要的一支。"],["林委員倩綺：是，我知道你們很重要，但是目前為止，我早上也聽了幾位委員的質詢，那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變，不是說你們有沒有績效，而是說這整個計畫項目，就教育部的這個部分是不是也要對於原始的初衷做一個檢視？少子化有因為幼教公共化而真正得到很多的解決嗎？成效如何？部裡面這邊是不是做一個報告，然後送到我的辦公室？讓我們知道你這個部分在數字上究竟是往上還是往下？少子化是越來越嚴重，還是因為你們這樣一個政策有一些改變或精進？這個是不是請部裡面再做一下？"],["林次長明裕：好，我們給委員一個書面報告，但幼教公共化這個政策對減輕年輕父母的負擔的確是很大的助益。"],["林委員倩綺：我相信部裡面一定有相關的資料嘛。"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["林委員倩綺：所以這個部分是不是送到我們辦公室，讓我瞭解一下這幾年的一個走向好嗎？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員倩綺：在我們檢視幼教公共化的這個部分，數量上應該是部裡面想要達到的這個結果，在可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了，但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方，其實可能也是很普遍的，很多的政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區，這個城鄉差距在目前的狀態上好像變得比較大，這是我們從這個數字裡面看出來的，所以我們把六都跟……"],["林次長明裕：因為六都的人口就占了六成，這很合理，這樣是很合理地分布。"],["林委員倩綺：次長，我請教一下，目前您看到這樣的城鄉差距，就我們來看是有城鄉差距，你覺得這個現象是繼續存在，你們就依照這樣一直進行下去，還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分……"],["林次長明裕：委員說的城鄉差距，指的是布建公共化幼兒園，跟偏鄉地區布建的數目有所差距，但這樣的差距是人口分布的自然結果，所以這個……"],["林委員倩綺：所以你覺得目前這個城鄉的差距是OK的？"],["林次長明裕：目前我們對於全國所有公共化幼兒園的布建，是很均衡地在發展。"],["林委員倩綺：對，就你們的數量上來說是均衡的。"],["林次長明裕：人數集中的，我們……"],["林委員倩綺：但是在實際的成效上呢？實際成效上，就算人數集中，現在好像也有一些幼兒園或公托產生了一些問題，應該在111年、疫情的這段時間已經有很大的衝擊，那衝擊之後，在回復的時候，現在好像有很多公共幼兒園或公托中心的數額，跟以前一位難求的狀況產生了一些差距吧？"],["林次長明裕：以前是一位難求，現在是……"],["林委員倩綺：對，現在是有很多空額。"],["林次長明裕：現在中籤率大概都有八、九成，兩歲專班是比較搶手。"],["林委員倩綺：聽起來好像是有降低，對不對？就是對於那個空額的需求是有降低吧？"],["林次長明裕：空額的需求？"],["林委員倩綺：對，以前是一位難求，然後現在根本是剩下很多的名額讓大家來申請。"],["林次長明裕：有些比較偏僻的公共幼兒園會有一些空額沒有錯，委員說的是對的。"],["林委員倩綺：那你可能也要檢視一下，只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎？還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況？都會區其實在……"],["林次長明裕：都會區的幾乎都是滿額啦！"],["林委員倩綺：好，您是不是再確認一下？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員倩綺：如果您覺得滿額，是不是都會跟城鄉……以您這個講法來說，那個數字給我看一下好嗎？"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["林委員倩綺：因為我看到的是這樣子的一個狀況。"],["林次長明裕：因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園，雖然它沒有滿額，但是它仍然有這個需求，我們還是要繼續蓋，但是我們會開始管控了。"],["林委員倩綺：是，如果是這樣的初衷，我想他們會比較慢接受到退場機制吧？我現在發現這個退場機制，不僅大學有，可能連公托這個公共化的部分也都會有這樣子的可能性吧？因為這幾年還是產生了一些差距。"],["林次長明裕：目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能。"],["林委員倩綺：所以公共化幼兒園，您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制……"],["林次長明裕：不會，它還很熱門。"],["林委員倩綺：您保證這件事嗎？我早上好像有聽到一些委員在質詢，他其實有把這個數量算出來，少子化也沒有解決，然後已經講到這個公共化幼兒園的一個退場機制，那我們就發現教育的整個退場機制……"],["林次長明裕：退場機制是準公托，跟我們合作的，跟我們簽契約的，不是……"],["林委員倩綺：要越來越少就對了？只針對其中一項？"],["林次長明裕：對，只針對……"],["林委員倩綺：有沒有可能現在運行OK的，你們就繼續運行；不OK你就叫它退場？"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["林委員倩綺：不OK就退場，所以原先本來是政府……"],["林次長明裕：不是不 OK退場，它沒有符合我們規範的……"],["林委員倩綺：OK，本來是政府整體投入的，然後現在你跟民間簽訂契約，可能等到民間很熱門的這個時段過了之後，你們要退場，你就叫他們退場了，是這樣子嗎？"],["林次長明裕：如果委員願意聽我詳述，是這樣，準公共幼兒園與政府是夥伴關係，目前全國有1,994個私立幼兒園跟我們合作，我們補貼家長一些教保的費用，一個月只有……"],["林委員倩綺：對，好像在補貼父母的這個部分……"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["林委員倩綺：是因為它好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低，所以變成空額，這也是其中一個原因，所以部裡面針對這個部分是不是也要稍微再做研究，好不好？"],["林次長明裕：對，我們再瞭解一下您聚焦的問題。"],["林委員倩綺：對，本來是政府全面投入，或是政府部分投入，再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係，但是這幾個政策到最後，當這個政策的熱度不再的時候，後面的解決方式感覺都非常地粗糙，包括大學的退場機制。"],["林次長明裕：也不會粗糙，我們是很細膩在處理幼教品質的提升。"],["林委員倩綺：可是本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊，我碰到的事情都很粗糙，如果你要聽的話，我們會後還可以再討論。"],["林次長明裕：好，我們願聽其詳。"],["林委員倩綺：好，我這邊有一個比較具體的東西，就是社區互助式跟部落互助式的教保服務，在原住民部落裡面，你們說師資必須要有母語認證，或者是高中以上的師資，但是我要強調的一點是，在部落裡面有很多長者或者是壯世代，他們的語言能力都非常強，可是你應該不會叫他們來參加語言認證吧？他們那個年代要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難，如果他們被摒除了，原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少，能夠教我們的師資，你們又說找不到，可是規範又那麼大，那長輩的傳承機會是不是被剝奪了？這一項是不是可以請部裡面去探討、研究？"],["林次長明裕：我們探討一下，因為部落幼教師資的品質也不可以有所鬆懈，所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準，高中畢業……"],["林委員倩綺：對，那是一般的標準，但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子啊！所以可不可以請次長多瞭解一下？"],["林次長明裕：好，我們瞭解一下。"],["林委員倩綺：最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的一個可能性，好嗎？"],["林次長明裕：他可以進來做課程合作啦，但他不能當作教保人員，教保人員他是沒辦法，這個我們有一定的規範，為了幼兒的教保品質、安全等等，他可以跟我們合作……"],["林委員倩綺：我相信你們有談過，但是我這邊提出來是很多人有這樣的條件，那有這樣條件的師資，在你們師資也缺乏，還有教保人員也缺乏的情況下，你如何能夠善用這些可能性？我這邊提出來給你們做參考，好不好？還是研擬一下，然後給本席這邊一個報告，好嗎？"],["林次長明裕：好，理解。"],["林委員倩綺：我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做得滿多的，依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到，而且有些你們說提前達到了，但是真的數大就是美嗎？所以這幾個建議，有一些人針對這幾年的政策做了一些討論，第一個是質量不平衡，細項我也不多說了，城鄉差距是我所看到的；然後經營的困難，可能它原本是自己獨資沒有問題，跟政府合作了，可能就有一些規範，到最後變成它原本可以自由的去處理的事情，現在有很多的規範。","我覺得在國家介入所謂公共化的角色當中，可不可以儘少把這些單位變成工具人的使用？就是你要跟人家合作，可不可以永續，而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快，績效達到了，結果熱度過了之後大家統統都退場，這樣子工具人的使用概念，會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平，那你乾脆直接說幼教國家化就好了嘛！我不知道它是不是真的達到公共化，可是國家化有一點這個概念……"],["林次長明裕：委員可能不瞭解，準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的園所，今年可能會突破到2,000所……"],["林委員倩綺：是啊！那些園所都有增加……"],["林次長明裕：所以你說會逐漸退場，那不存在。"],["林委員倩綺：我不知道會不會，因為那是未來的事情，可是像我們大學就已經……"],["林次長明裕：如果他不守法規，那當然會令其退場，但是我們合作的夥伴是越來越多，他們是認同這樣的制度。"],["林委員倩綺：好啦！數量上雖然看起來是美麗的，但是效益上，其實今天在報告裡面跟我的這些問題上，我是沒有看到的，所以在效益上你們怎麼樣去評估跟怎麼詮釋……"],["林次長明裕：委員，您可能要看一下這個報告，這寫的很清楚……"],["林委員倩綺：我有看到，我之前一直在追啊！我有看到這個報告，但是原鄉的問題，你全部都不懂啊！我提出來的，你對我講的都是一般、一般、一般……"],["林次長明裕：是，對於教保品質跟教保人員的專業性，要多一點把關啦！我們是很把關的。"],["林委員倩綺：對，那你們就一般、一般……"],["林次長明裕：所以你剛才說要放鬆……"],["林委員倩綺：我已經告訴你原住民部落的問題，你還是跟我談一般、一般……"],["林次長明裕：沒有，原住民部落更要把關。"],["林委員倩綺：原住民部落更要把關，請問你是把哪一部分的關？"],["林次長明裕：教保品質。"],["林委員倩綺：以你的定義嗎？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["林委員倩綺：那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少你們合作的準公托？"],["林次長明裕：目前它不叫準公托，叫做部落社區教保中心。"],["林委員倩綺：所以現在有多少個？"],["林次長明裕：總共有13個。"],["林委員倩綺：才13個，那你是要全臺灣的原鄉……"],["林次長明裕：它還有國小的附幼，還有非營利幼兒園，還有部落式的教保中心。"],["林委員倩綺：是啊！部落式的教保中心，我剛才也談了，重點就是你的師資上，在部落這邊一直有困難嘛！召委，不好意思，我知道你站起來了。這個問題我非常重視，我今天最後講一件事情，我期待教育部不要再以這種一般、一般性，然後反正原住民都聽不懂這樣的概念給本席回復。","我不知道國際處的代表有沒有過來？還有綜規司，依照我拿的這個名單，你們是有代表的。綜規司負責原民班，國際處負責國際班，我在第一次質詢的時候，我是不是提出請以國際生的規格standard來規劃原民專班，或是你們要稱原民班都沒問題，這中間最大的差異，我想先請請問一下……"],["林次長明裕：委員所針對的這個問題，我們再深入瞭解，再跟您回復，好不好？"],["林委員倩綺：是，但是最重要的是，你們給原住民一個月只有5,000塊，給國際生一個月只有1萬塊，然後不要跟本席搪塞什麼技職教育的合作，我講的是國際專班，請開給原住民班，以國際專班的規格。"],["林次長明裕：我們兩司合作跟委員辦公室聯絡一下，做一個專題。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員。","我們再來請范雲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","劉建國","邱志偉","牛煦庭","陳冠廷"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132701_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"150989","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150989","tool":"pyannote","id":"150989-pyannote"},"job_id":"d6fMYW2eCk99nbQC","queued_at":"2024-06-01 12:24:16","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 12:25:07","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150989"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:25:07","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e148eee89a6563f032d211db49933aca99cf12f16b805e0f49cea193b8358d2b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:25:34","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:25:36","msg":"running 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\"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 190.398, \"end\": 190.578, \"score\": 0.608}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 190.578, \"end\": 190.678, \"score\": 0.547}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 190.678, \"end\": 190.798, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 190.798, \"end\": 190.878, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 190.878, \"end\": 191.018, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 191.018, \"end\": 191.098, \"score\": 0.586}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 191.098, \"end\": 191.298, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 191.298, \"end\": 191.318, \"score\": 0.051}]}, {\"start\": 192.238, \"end\": 219.533, \"text\": \"這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 192.238, \"end\": 192.338, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 192.338, 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00:00:00,550\n林倩綺委員質詢。\n\n2\n00:00:21,966 --> 00:00:23,707\n公共化就是公家出錢的\n\n3\n00:00:38,309 --> 00:00:59,446\n公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇\n\n4\n00:01:00,547 --> 00:01:25,777\n後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情．\n\n5\n00:01:26,687 --> 00:01:31,651\n公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長\n\n6\n00:01:48,526 --> 00:02:01,199\n所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面他還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但他跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼\n\n7\n00:02:04,418 --> 00:02:22,565\n公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以我這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較\n\n8\n00:02:23,945 --> 00:02:44,007\n正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差那對我們而言如果從一個部落的這個講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志那似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個處長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢\n\n9\n00:02:44,608 --> 00:03:11,318\n那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像\n\n10\n00:03:12,238 --> 00:03:39,533\n這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎\n\n11\n00:03:41,235 --> 00:03:49,208\n其實手指化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支\n\n12\n00:03:50,919 --> 00:03:54,460\n减輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子年化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一職\n\n13\n00:04:21,386 --> 00:04:41,887\n是是我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎\n\n14\n00:04:42,708 --> 00:04:42,868\n我們可以為一個書面報告\n\n15\n00:05:05,552 --> 00:05:06,333\n〈擴大幼兒教保公共化政策〉\n\n16\n00:05:27,113 --> 00:05:47,458\n應該是部裡面想要達到的我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區那這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大\n\n17\n00:05:48,925 --> 00:06:12,133\n至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次郎我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分\n\n18\n00:06:13,894 --> 00:06:15,055\n所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的?\n\n19\n00:06:30,301 --> 00:06:36,608\n目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園\n\n20\n00:06:47,418 --> 00:06:47,458\n主席\n\n21\n00:07:04,106 --> 00:07:20,524\n以前是一位籃球現在撞牽率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧\n\n22\n00:07:21,127 --> 00:07:23,329\n你可能也要解釋一下只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況都會區的幾乎都是滿額\n\n23\n00:07:45,970 --> 00:07:49,272\n您是不是再確認一下那如果您覺得滿額是不是都會跟城鄉以您這個講法然後那個數字給我看一下好嗎因為我看到的是這樣因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去\n\n24\n00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:04,500\n目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能\n\n25\n00:08:22,236 --> 00:08:41,943\n所以您是那個公共化委員您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制這樣一個...你保證這件事嗎?我早上好像聽有一些委員在質詢他其實有把這個數量算出來少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到這個公共化的一個退場機制那我們就發現這個教育的整個退場機制...退場機制是準公圖跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的\n\n26\n00:08:45,444 --> 00:08:45,844\n若委員願意聽我詳述是這樣\n\n27\n00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:16,233\n準公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元私立的跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長教父母的這個部分是因為他好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低所以變成那個空額這也是其中一個原因之一啊所以布裡面是不是這個部分你們也要稍微再做一點研究\n\n28\n00:09:43,591 --> 00:10:01,216\n本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候後面的解決方式感覺都非常粗糙包括大學會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升\n\n29\n00:10:04,417 --> 00:10:31,854\n本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論好我們願聽其詳好那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者\n\n30\n00:10:32,794 --> 00:10:54,645\n或是壯世代他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧那他們那個年代可能要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難那如果他們被摒除了這個在部落裡面你們規定我們要學的我們原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少欸那能夠教我們的師師你們又說找不到可是規範又那麼大那這個長輩的這個傳承機會是不是也會剝奪\n\n31\n00:10:58,315 --> 00:11:24,535\n這項是不是可以請部裡面去探討研究我們探討一下因為部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的這樣一個可能性\n\n32\n00:11:25,276 --> 00:11:28,039\n我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性\n\n33\n00:11:51,980 --> 00:12:16,218\n我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好理解好那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡\n\n34\n00:12:16,818 --> 00:12:17,318\n李慧琼議員\n\n35\n00:12:41,369 --> 00:13:02,804\n可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛\n\n36\n00:13:04,144 --> 00:13:26,229\n那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的員所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情可是像我們大學就已經做到了這樣如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多\n\n37\n00:13:26,989 --> 00:13:27,990\n委員您可能要看一下這個報告,這寫得很清楚。\n\n38\n00:13:47,869 --> 00:14:00,337\n我聽出來的你對我講的都是一般一般對那你就一般一般一般所以你剛才說放鬆沒有原住民部落更要把關是是教保品質是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托\n\n39\n00:14:16,277 --> 00:14:44,764\n準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個?是多少個?總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人有多少個?還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲立幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎?部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我正在那裡起來\n\n40\n00:14:45,424 --> 00:15:08,858\n好這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責\n\n41\n00:15:13,341 --> 00:15:40,808\n國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或者是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞\n\n42\n00:15:42,108 --> 00:15:42,389\n主席主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t550\t林倩綺委員質詢。\n21966\t23707\t公共化就是公家出錢的\n38309\t59446\t公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇\n60547\t85777\t後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情．\n86687\t91651\t公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長\n108526\t121199\t所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面他還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但他跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼\n124418\t142565\t公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以我這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較\n143945\t164007\t正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差那對我們而言如果從一個部落的這個講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志那似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個處長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢\n164608\t191318\t那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像\n192238\t219533\t這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎\n221235\t229208\t其實手指化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支\n230919\t234460\t减輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子年化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一職\n261386\t281887\t是是我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎\n282708\t282868\t我們可以為一個書面報告\n305552\t306333\t〈擴大幼兒教保公共化政策〉\n327113\t347458\t應該是部裡面想要達到的我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區那這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大\n348925\t372133\t至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次郎我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分\n373894\t375055\t所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的?\n390301\t396608\t目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園\n407418\t407458\t主席\n424106\t440524\t以前是一位籃球現在撞牽率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧\n441127\t443329\t你可能也要解釋一下只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況都會區的幾乎都是滿額\n465970\t469272\t您是不是再確認一下那如果您覺得滿額是不是都會跟城鄉以您這個講法然後那個數字給我看一下好嗎因為我看到的是這樣因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去\n483439\t484500\t目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能\n502236\t521943\t所以您是那個公共化委員您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制這樣一個...你保證這件事嗎?我早上好像聽有一些委員在質詢他其實有把這個數量算出來少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到這個公共化的一個退場機制那我們就發現這個教育的整個退場機制...退場機制是準公圖跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的\n525444\t525844\t若委員願意聽我詳述是這樣\n551610\t556233\t準公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元私立的跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長教父母的這個部分是因為他好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低所以變成那個空額這也是其中一個原因之一啊所以布裡面是不是這個部分你們也要稍微再做一點研究\n583591\t601216\t本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候後面的解決方式感覺都非常粗糙包括大學會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升\n604417\t631854\t本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論好 我們願聽其詳好 那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者\n632794\t654645\t或是壯世代他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧那他們那個年代可能要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難那如果他們被摒除了這個在部落裡面你們規定我們要學的我們原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少欸那能夠教我們的師師你們又說找不到可是規範又那麼大那這個長輩的這個傳承機會是不是也會剝奪\n658315\t684535\t這項是不是可以請部裡面去探討研究我們探討一下因為部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業 但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的這樣一個可能性\n685276\t688039\t我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性\n711980\t736218\t我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好 理解好 那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡\n736818\t737318\t李慧琼議員\n761369\t782804\t可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛\n784144\t806229\t那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解 準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的員所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情可是像我們大學就已經做到了這樣如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多\n806989\t807990\t委員您可能要看一下這個報告,這寫得很清楚。\n827869\t840337\t我聽出來的你對我講的都是一般一般對 那你就一般一般一般所以你剛才說放鬆沒有 原住民部落更要把關 是是 教保品質是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托\n856277\t884764\t準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個?是多少個?總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人有多少個?還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲立幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎?部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我正在那裡起來\n885424\t908858\t好 這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好 那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責\n913341\t940808\t國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或者是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是 但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞\n942108\t942389\t主席主席\n","txt":"林倩綺委員質詢。\n公共化就是公家出錢的\n公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇\n後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情．\n公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長\n所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面他還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但他跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼\n公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以我這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較\n正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差那對我們而言如果從一個部落的這個講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志那似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個處長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢\n那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像\n這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎\n其實手指化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支\n减輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子年化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一職\n是是我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎\n我們可以為一個書面報告\n〈擴大幼兒教保公共化政策〉\n應該是部裡面想要達到的我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區那這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大\n至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次郎我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分\n所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的?\n目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園\n主席\n以前是一位籃球現在撞牽率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧\n你可能也要解釋一下只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況都會區的幾乎都是滿額\n您是不是再確認一下那如果您覺得滿額是不是都會跟城鄉以您這個講法然後那個數字給我看一下好嗎因為我看到的是這樣因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去\n目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能\n所以您是那個公共化委員您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制這樣一個...你保證這件事嗎?我早上好像聽有一些委員在質詢他其實有把這個數量算出來少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到這個公共化的一個退場機制那我們就發現這個教育的整個退場機制...退場機制是準公圖跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的\n若委員願意聽我詳述是這樣\n準公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元私立的跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長教父母的這個部分是因為他好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低所以變成那個空額這也是其中一個原因之一啊所以布裡面是不是這個部分你們也要稍微再做一點研究\n本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候後面的解決方式感覺都非常粗糙包括大學會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升\n本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論好 我們願聽其詳好 那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者\n或是壯世代他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧那他們那個年代可能要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難那如果他們被摒除了這個在部落裡面你們規定我們要學的我們原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少欸那能夠教我們的師師你們又說找不到可是規範又那麼大那這個長輩的這個傳承機會是不是也會剝奪\n這項是不是可以請部裡面去探討研究我們探討一下因為部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業 但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的這樣一個可能性\n我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性\n我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好 理解好 那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡\n李慧琼議員\n可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛\n那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解 準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的員所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情可是像我們大學就已經做到了這樣如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多\n委員您可能要看一下這個報告,這寫得很清楚。\n我聽出來的你對我講的都是一般一般對 那你就一般一般一般所以你剛才說放鬆沒有 原住民部落更要把關 是是 教保品質是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托\n準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個?是多少個?總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人有多少個?還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲立幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎?部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我正在那裡起來\n好 這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好 那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責\n國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或者是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是 但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞\n主席主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.550\n林倩綺委員質詢。\n\n00:21.966 --> 00:23.707\n公共化就是公家出錢的\n\n00:38.309 --> 00:59.446\n公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇\n\n01:00.547 --> 01:25.777\n後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情．\n\n01:26.687 --> 01:31.651\n公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長\n\n01:48.526 --> 02:01.199\n所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面他還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但他跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼\n\n02:04.418 --> 02:22.565\n公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以我這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較\n\n02:23.945 --> 02:44.007\n正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差那對我們而言如果從一個部落的這個講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志那似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個處長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢\n\n02:44.608 --> 03:11.318\n那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像\n\n03:12.238 --> 03:39.533\n這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎\n\n03:41.235 --> 03:49.208\n其實手指化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支\n\n03:50.919 --> 03:54.460\n减輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子年化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一職\n\n04:21.386 --> 04:41.887\n是是我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎\n\n04:42.708 --> 04:42.868\n我們可以為一個書面報告\n\n05:05.552 --> 05:06.333\n〈擴大幼兒教保公共化政策〉\n\n05:27.113 --> 05:47.458\n應該是部裡面想要達到的我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區那這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大\n\n05:48.925 --> 06:12.133\n至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次郎我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分\n\n06:13.894 --> 06:15.055\n所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的?\n\n06:30.301 --> 06:36.608\n目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園\n\n06:47.418 --> 06:47.458\n主席\n\n07:04.106 --> 07:20.524\n以前是一位籃球現在撞牽率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧\n\n07:21.127 --> 07:23.329\n你可能也要解釋一下只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況都會區的幾乎都是滿額\n\n07:45.970 --> 07:49.272\n您是不是再確認一下那如果您覺得滿額是不是都會跟城鄉以您這個講法然後那個數字給我看一下好嗎因為我看到的是這樣因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去\n\n08:03.439 --> 08:04.500\n目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能\n\n08:22.236 --> 08:41.943\n所以您是那個公共化委員您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制這樣一個...你保證這件事嗎?我早上好像聽有一些委員在質詢他其實有把這個數量算出來少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到這個公共化的一個退場機制那我們就發現這個教育的整個退場機制...退場機制是準公圖跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的\n\n08:45.444 --> 08:45.844\n若委員願意聽我詳述是這樣\n\n09:11.610 --> 09:16.233\n準公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元私立的跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長教父母的這個部分是因為他好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低所以變成那個空額這也是其中一個原因之一啊所以布裡面是不是這個部分你們也要稍微再做一點研究\n\n09:43.591 --> 10:01.216\n本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候後面的解決方式感覺都非常粗糙包括大學會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升\n\n10:04.417 --> 10:31.854\n本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論好我們願聽其詳好那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者\n\n10:32.794 --> 10:54.645\n或是壯世代他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧那他們那個年代可能要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難那如果他們被摒除了這個在部落裡面你們規定我們要學的我們原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少欸那能夠教我們的師師你們又說找不到可是規範又那麼大那這個長輩的這個傳承機會是不是也會剝奪\n\n10:58.315 --> 11:24.535\n這項是不是可以請部裡面去探討研究我們探討一下因為部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的這樣一個可能性\n\n11:25.276 --> 11:28.039\n我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性\n\n11:51.980 --> 12:16.218\n我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好理解好那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡\n\n12:16.818 --> 12:17.318\n李慧琼議員\n\n12:41.369 --> 13:02.804\n可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛\n\n13:04.144 --> 13:26.229\n那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的員所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情可是像我們大學就已經做到了這樣如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多\n\n13:26.989 --> 13:27.990\n委員您可能要看一下這個報告,這寫得很清楚。\n\n13:47.869 --> 14:00.337\n我聽出來的你對我講的都是一般一般對那你就一般一般一般所以你剛才說放鬆沒有原住民部落更要把關是是教保品質是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托\n\n14:16.277 --> 14:44.764\n準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個?是多少個?總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人有多少個?還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲立幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎?部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我正在那裡起來\n\n14:45.424 --> 15:08.858\n好這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責\n\n15:13.341 --> 15:40.808\n國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或者是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞\n\n15:42.108 --> 15:42.389\n主席主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.55,"text":"林倩綺委員質詢。"},{"start":21.966,"end":23.707,"text":"公共化就是公家出錢的"},{"start":38.309,"end":59.446,"text":"公家投入了一些錢我這邊一個建議其實這樣一個主題當然是在一個政策主張當中但是可能對一般民眾在查詢上有一些不同的概念跟想法所以像我們在查的時候先打了幼教公共化後來只有教育部的一篇"},{"start":60.547,"end":85.777,"text":"後來我們就用不同的查詢方式．打進了幼教公共化之後．有27,200項．看起來很多人在做．後來再打進幼兒園公共化．又出現了6萬多項．所以對於公共化的講法．您部裡面是不是要再做一個整理．讓一般民眾知道你們談的是這件事情．"},{"start":86.687,"end":91.651,"text":"公共化是由教育普及化的概念公共化的概念所以公家不得不出錢那再來就是包含準公幼準公幼其實政府也有出錢但是因為我們出的錢是補助家長"},{"start":108.526,"end":121.199,"text":"所以那個在我們所有的公共化的相關的幼兒園的建置裡面他還是歸屬在私幼的一部分但他跟我們是合作夥伴的關係所以我們稱為純公幼"},{"start":124.418,"end":142.565,"text":"公共化的概念包含了先前在推的幾項跟現在新的社區互助等等這樣子的事物補助的對象又有一些差異所以我這邊先建議在公共化這個層面上是不是可以部裡面來公告一個比較"},{"start":143.945,"end":164.007,"text":"正式的說法讓大家在查的時候不會有不同的落差那對我們而言如果從一個部落的這個講法來講應該就像部落的分享共志那似乎要達到這樣一個目標但是呢看起來又在這個處長對不起那個次長這邊講起來好像就是政府有出錢"},{"start":164.608,"end":191.318,"text":"那不管是出錢補助這個園區呢或者是補助了父母或者是補助那個對象上還有很大的差異所以對一般民眾來講我想這樣一個政策主張有一點複雜所以這邊提出一個建議是不是部裡面這邊也對公共化這樣一個詞有一些解釋那當然我們透過很多不同的管道已經知道公共化的一些意思但是就你們的政策主張如果能夠講一句大家就明白的話可能就不會有那麼多不同的想像"},{"start":192.238,"end":219.533,"text":"這是我一個建議那第二點就是我們在查這個公共化過去制定這樣子政策的時候我們一直聽到了這個少子化因為少子化其實我覺得那個現在我在社會上整體聽到少子化的議題而引起很多的這個問題那大家現在要來解決少子化的問題那投入了很多不同的政策那所以想跟這個次長請教那在幼教公共化這個部分解決了少子化的問題嗎"},{"start":221.235,"end":229.208,"text":"其實手指化的問題我們中央部會分10個中央部會在努力解決那幼教公共化是其中的一支"},{"start":230.919,"end":234.46,"text":"减輕父母的負擔我們用幼教公共化解決青年就業可能勞動部解決青年創業可能有經濟部凡是對於青年父母有一些幫助的我們都稱為解決少子年化對策計畫之一所以在教育部這個部分目前推起來是有點是不是到了一個要檢討跟有點自愛難行的狀況我們是重要的一職"},{"start":261.386,"end":281.887,"text":"是是我知道你們很重要但是就目前為止我早上也聽了幾位委員那個少子化的狀態其實也還沒有改變那不是說你們有沒有績效啦而是說那這整個計畫項目那就教育部的這個部分是不是要對於這原始的初衷也做一個檢視所以少子化因為我們幼教公共化有得到真正很多的一個解決嗎"},{"start":282.708,"end":282.868,"text":"我們可以為一個書面報告"},{"start":305.552,"end":306.333,"text":"〈擴大幼兒教保公共化政策〉"},{"start":327.113,"end":347.458,"text":"應該是部裡面想要達到的我們可以量化出來的數量上好像是增進了但是我們後來發現有一個比較弔詭的地方其實也可能是很普遍的很多政策實施起來都會變成集中在都會區那這個城鄉差距似乎在目前的一個狀態上好像變得比較大"},{"start":348.925,"end":372.133,"text":"至少是我們是從這個數字裡面看來因為六都的兩口都佔了六成這很合理的這樣很合理的分佈那次郎我可以請教一下那對於這個目前您看到這樣城鄉的差距就我們來看是有城鄉差距那您覺得這個現象是繼續存在你們就依照這樣一直進行下去還是說在城鄉差距的這個部分"},{"start":373.894,"end":375.055,"text":"所以你覺得目前這個成項的差距是OK的?"},{"start":390.301,"end":396.608,"text":"目前我們對於全國所有的公共化幼兒園的部件我們是很均衡的在發展就你們的數量上是均衡的但是在實際的成效上就算人數集中好像現在也有一些幼兒園"},{"start":407.418,"end":407.458,"text":"主席"},{"start":424.106,"end":440.524,"text":"以前是一位籃球現在撞牽率大概都有八九成兩歲專班是比較搶手那聽起來好像是有降低嘛對不對就是對於那個控額的一個需求是有降低吧"},{"start":441.127,"end":443.329,"text":"你可能也要解釋一下只有偏僻的幼兒園是這樣嗎還是都會的幼兒園也有這樣的情況都會區的幾乎都是滿額"},{"start":465.97,"end":469.272,"text":"您是不是再確認一下那如果您覺得滿額是不是都會跟城鄉以您這個講法然後那個數字給我看一下好嗎因為我看到的是這樣因為偏鄉地區也需要公共化的幼兒園雖然他沒有滿額但是他真的有這個需求我們也要繼續去"},{"start":483.439,"end":484.5,"text":"目前看不出公共化幼兒園有退場的可能"},{"start":502.236,"end":521.943,"text":"所以您是那個公共化委員您這邊很確定的是不會碰到退場機制這樣一個...你保證這件事嗎?我早上好像聽有一些委員在質詢他其實有把這個數量算出來少子化也沒有解決然後已經講到這個公共化的一個退場機制那我們就發現這個教育的整個退場機制...退場機制是準公圖跟我們合作的跟我們簽契約的"},{"start":525.444,"end":525.844,"text":"若委員願意聽我詳述是這樣"},{"start":551.61,"end":556.233,"text":"準公共幼兒園我們是政府的夥伴關係目前全國有1994元私立的跟他合作那我們補貼家長一些教保的費用好像補貼教長教父母的這個部分是因為他好像跟私立的幼兒園差距越來越低所以變成那個空額這也是其中一個原因之一啊所以布裡面是不是這個部分你們也要稍微再做一點研究"},{"start":583.591,"end":601.216,"text":"本來是政府全面投入或是政府部分投入再加上政府可能有夥伴的關係但是這幾個政策到最後當這個政策的熱度不再的時候後面的解決方式感覺都非常粗糙包括大學會長之事我們是很細膩在處理右架品質的提升"},{"start":604.417,"end":631.854,"text":"本席在學校就不認為你們有很細緻啊我碰到的事情都很粗糙如果你要聽的話我們會後還可以再討論好 我們願聽其詳好 那個比較我這邊有一個比較具體的東西就是在社區互助室跟部落互助室的這個教保服務在原住民部落裡面你們說師資必須要有這個母語認證或者是這個高中以上的這個師資但是我要強調一點是不好意思那在部落裡面有很多長者"},{"start":632.794,"end":654.645,"text":"或是壯世代他們的語言能力都非常強可是你應該不會叫他們來參加這個語言認證吧那他們那個年代可能要讀到這麼高的學歷可能也很難那如果他們被摒除了這個在部落裡面你們規定我們要學的我們原住民部落規定我們要學的東西還真不少欸那能夠教我們的師師你們又說找不到可是規範又那麼大那這個長輩的這個傳承機會是不是也會剝奪"},{"start":658.315,"end":684.535,"text":"這項是不是可以請部裡面去探討研究我們探討一下因為部落的幼教品質的師資也不可以有所鬆懈所以我們訂這一個是一般的標準高中畢業 但是原住民部落的生活不是這個樣子所以可不可以請次長多了解一下我們了解一下最主要是不要剝奪長輩能夠傳承文化的這樣一個可能性"},{"start":685.276,"end":688.039,"text":"我相信你們是有談過但是我這邊提出來的是很多人有這樣一個條件有這樣條件的師資在你們師資也缺乏還有那個教保員也缺乏的一個情況下你如何能夠善用這些可能性"},{"start":711.98,"end":736.218,"text":"我這邊提出來給你們做個參考好不好還是研擬一下然後給本席這邊一個報告好嗎好 理解好 那這個我知道你們的這個數額在這幾年做了蠻多的就依照你們這個量化的目標好像都達到而且有些你們說提前達到了但是真的數大就是美嗎所以這幾個建議啦有一些人在針對這幾年的這個政策做了一些討論第一個是質量不平衡"},{"start":736.818,"end":737.318,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":761.369,"end":782.804,"text":"可不可以永續而不是說在這段期間我們一起來合作愉快績效達到了結果熱度過了之後大家通通都退場這樣子工具人的一個使用概念會讓我們覺得國家對很多事情是不公平的那你乾脆直接說那個又叫國家化就好了嘛"},{"start":784.144,"end":806.229,"text":"那我不知道他是不是真的達到了公共化可是國家化有點這個概念我可能不了解 準公幼的政策我們逐年增加合作的員所今年可能會突破到2000所所以你說逐年退場那不存在我不知道會不會因為是未來的事情可是像我們大學就已經做到了這樣如果他不守法規那當然會另起退場但是呢我們合作的夥伴是越來越多"},{"start":806.989,"end":807.99,"text":"委員您可能要看一下這個報告,這寫得很清楚。"},{"start":827.869,"end":840.337,"text":"我聽出來的你對我講的都是一般一般對 那你就一般一般一般所以你剛才說放鬆沒有 原住民部落更要把關 是是 教保品質是那你現在跟我講原住民部落有多少的你們合作的總公托"},{"start":856.277,"end":884.764,"text":"準公托目前它不叫準公托那叫做部落社區教保中心所以現在有多少個?是多少個?總共有13個才13個那你知道全台灣的年輕人有多少個?還有國小的婦幼還有飛雲立幼兒園還有部落式的教保中心是嗎?部落式的教保中心我剛才也談了重點就是你的實質上在部落這邊一直有困難嘛那個教委不好意思我正在那裡起來"},{"start":885.424,"end":908.858,"text":"好 這個問題我非常重視那我期待這個教育部不要在意我今天最後講一件事情不要在意這種一般一般性然後反正原住民都聽不懂的這樣一個概念給本席回復我現在要講的是那個國際我不知道那個國際處的代表有沒有過來然後仲規司依照我拿的這個名單你們是有代表的好 那個仲規司負責原名單然後國際部國際處負責"},{"start":913.341,"end":940.808,"text":"國際班我在第一次質詢的時候是不是提出請以這個國際生的規格STEM來規劃原名專班或者是你們要稱原名班都沒問題這中間最大的差異我想先請問一下委員所針對這個問題我們再深入了解再跟您回覆好不好是 但是最重要的是你們給原住民一個月只有五千塊給國際生一個月只有一萬塊然後不要跟本席搪塞"},{"start":942.108,"end":942.389,"text":"主席主席"}]}}}}