{"id":150992,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150992","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948edc358792afcc1372533009c4a7c43105f8ba9b0039caa7a6116f54e65665532f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:59:17 - 12:09:32","影片長度":"00:10:15","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生醫療發展法草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n【一、二案採綜合詢答，本日會議僅詢答】\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-11"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":615,"end_time":"2024-04-10T12:09:32+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T11:59:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":795,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時59分）謝謝主席。麻煩請薛瑞元部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，大家都關心，除了今天的再生醫療法以外，有關性私密影像的防護也很重要，很多委員今天也都有在做討論，我們來看一下，性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正上路後，目前到底面臨到什麼問題？這是去年年底的一個報導，它說現在成案率只有百分之二十五，然後有三大問題，第一大問題，申訴人沒有辦法確定就是被拍攝的人，所以需要在期限內補件，提供更完整的資料，但往往申訴人沒有繼續補件，就沒有辦法成案。請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害？我已經被偷拍了，這個影像確實看起來就是，而當事人說這個是我，結果還被認為沒有，影像內部的人跟當事人、報案人看起來不一樣，然後要我再提供，請問要提供什麼？身體特徵，還是要再多提供我的個人資料？明明對於當事人來講，覺得這個性私密影像被流露在網路上已經讓人非常難堪，或是非常不想再去回想了，卻被要求提供更完整的資料，若沒有補件，就沒有辦法成案，造成沒有後續的一個保障。部長，這能不能有更精進的作為？"],["薛部長瑞元：這其實還是有一個證明的問題，大概避免不了，因為假設這個成案，要做一些裁處的時候，我們還是必須要有一些……"],["洪委員孟楷：比如說看到一個網站上面的那個影像已經是偷拍了，我看得出來那個是本人、那個是個人，然後你又說：沒有喔！你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想，或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料，要認定那個是本人你才可以處理，那是不是要提供身體特徵？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話……"],["洪委員孟楷：像我臉這邊有一顆痣，影片裡面的人也有一顆痣，之前有委員被偷拍，結果說那個是AI變造！"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分其實也要做一點分辨，就是是否是兒少，若是兒少的部分，當然我們可以比較清楚的，反正不管是哪一個兒少，我都是要你下架，但如果是成人的部分，成人私密照被放上去做這種傳播的話，的確會有一些困難，因為成人的部分，如果是他自己同意，基本上就不構成所謂的違法，所以變成要去證明是不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：性私密影像防護的精神，不管你剛剛講的兒少或是性私密影像，其實這追根究底是什麼？就是我們希望能夠予以保護，只要是有報案，而且是從寬認定，抱歉，部長，我必須要糾正，其實你剛才講的也有一點點矛盾。你說兒少的認定比較不一樣，可能你是看他的身體特徵或是相關的，比方說他的臉部看起來比較童顏，那你這樣仍變成是主觀認定，行政機關還是沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的一個保護的效果，成案率只有百分之二十五，這個是去年年底的報導，現在成案率有沒有提高？"],["張司長秀鴛：有提升。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有一些更精進的作為？"],["張司長秀鴛：目前大概是六成……"],["洪委員孟楷：有到六成？"],["張司長秀鴛：對，可以到六成成案。"],["洪委員孟楷：有到六成可以成案？"],["張司長秀鴛：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。我再來看第二個部分，這一點我真的覺得非常匪夷所思，它說當網站被申訴的時候，要聯絡網站的業者，發現這個業者只有電子郵件、信箱或不予回應，然後許多負責人個資設為不公開，需要說明需求才能取得，或是花數萬元加入平臺。所以變成我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關付費給這種色情的網站，我們變成是資助者，我們付費給這個網站，我們先付了一筆錢、國家納稅人的錢給這個網站之後，才能拿到這個網站一個聯繫的方式，那位業者再不回你、再不理你，變成我們公權力、公部門要拿國人的納稅錢去加入色情網站，這樣對嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這樣的確有一點奇怪！"],["洪委員孟楷：非常奇怪而不是有一點奇怪，我剛剛就聽到有委員說被害人有被害人舉證的一個義務，我也同意啊！所以被害人他可能要自己加入那個付費網站，他已經花了幾千塊、幾萬塊變成會員，拿到了那個影片後，發現確實這個影片有被流傳，然後跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講，可是我們相關單位還說因為沒有辦法聯繫它，所以我們也要付費加入那個色情網站，才能夠跟它聯絡，這是公權力被「看衰小」！"],["薛部長瑞元：應該不是這樣子處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是報導！是張秀鴛司長這樣講的。"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊！這個方法是不太……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我要講的是，其實最後的關鍵，他敢在國外架設一個IP、架設一個網站，然後上面放那麼多的私密影像，非法的、合法的，不管怎麼樣，他敢拿那個來獲利，就已經是犯罪者，我們還要付費給他，來跟他溝通？那是不是公權力被看小？還有，這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛！如果我們沒有辦法、如果他犯罪地是在國外，至少我們能不能阻絕、不讓他跟我們臺灣連結？所以這就是封網的部分。","最後一段，性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架，至少限制瀏覽，也就是封網的後續處理。到目前為止，封網的案件數是零。"],["薛部長瑞元：應該不是零。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在有了嗎？請教現在封網有多少件？"],["張司長秀鴛：目前下架完成的有9件，還有兩件目前在執行中。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，今天我們就講這個黃姓藝人的事件，這個論壇現在沸沸揚揚，我完全不想幫它打廣告，而該論壇到目前為止還在運作中？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們下午就發文給數位部……"],["洪委員孟楷：上午有人說，數位部要等衛福部發文，衛福部提到這是內政部的工作，還是法務部的工作，你們三個部會都互踢皮球，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們下午就發文給數位部，數位部就採取行動把它封掉。"],["洪委員孟楷：說實在話，衛福部認為這件事情應該是數位部主動先做，當遇到這個事情時，到底是衛福部主責，數位部主責，還是法務部主責？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然以兒少性剝削條例的話，是衛福部的主管，但是技術方面的話，其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的，所以一定是要跨部會的合作。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以溝通上來講，是不是應該更加強？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席看到去年年底居然封網的案件數是零，我認為，如果是性私密影像，或是未成年相關這種影像的話，它就是犯罪物，犯罪物還可以容許用這種非法網站去兜售、還去加會員來賣錢？如果今天這個犯罪物變成是毒品呢？我們有可能容許毒品在網站上面來購買嗎？如果這個犯罪物是槍械呢？我們能夠容許有一個非法網站上能夠架到臺灣，然後販賣槍械嗎？如果不行，為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像可以呢？所以應該要動起來的時候，公權力絕對要動起來。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。當然這裡面我們也期待未來如果貴院在修法的時候要去考慮一件事情，就是在法律上面授權我們主動去做偵查，這個偵查並不是真的一個一個去看，而是藉由數位科技的一個方式去偵測有哪一些網站比較有可能，然後再進去處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：說真的，今天數發部副署長有來，副署長你不用上來，對於數發部，說實在的，兩百多億的公務預算給你們，你們不就是應該做這個事情嗎？一年半的時間給你們，從成立到現在，不就是應該做這個事情嗎？這種東西還是要立法嗎？當初數位發展部成立的時候，不就是應該做這個事情，保障國人的權利，至少在網路世界裡面！結果居然還要衛福部長來講，要我們來立法，我講不客氣點，這根本就是互踢皮球！"],["主席：洪委員……"],["洪委員孟楷：今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣，就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問衛福部、數發部還有法務部這三個到底權責是誰的時候，真的是莫名其妙，這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了，大家都已經關心到這個程度了，好像就只有我們官員還在睡、還叫不醒！"],["主席：好，洪委員因為時間的關係，很多委員還要發言，會後請部長再說明清楚。","因為發言委員有對調順序，我再重新宣告，發言至現場我們蘇巧慧委員發言結束之後再休息10分鐘。接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","邱議瑩","羅廷瑋","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","林淑芬","洪申翰","黃捷","賴士葆","陳瑩","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","楊曜","劉建國","邱鎮軍","林德福","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生\n醫療法草案」案、(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案；二、審查(一)委員邱議瑩\n等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例\n草案」案、( 三) 委員羅廷瑋等21 人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案【一、二案採綜合詢\n答，本日會議僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1132601_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"150992","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150992","tool":"pyannote","id":"150992-pyannote"},"job_id":"nvTpCKbRqUCBqSZB","queued_at":"2024-06-01 12:21:35","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 12:22:26","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150992"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:22:27","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948edc358792afcc1372533009c4a7c431059cf12f16b805e0f4886f62d9cd790b2b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:22:44","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:22:46","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:22:58","msg":"status: 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460.422, \"end\": 460.562, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 460.562, \"end\": 460.762, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 460.762, \"end\": 460.902, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 460.902, \"end\": 460.922, \"score\": 0.015}, {\"word\": \"責\"}]}, {\"start\": 461.638, \"end\": 482.684, \"text\": \"當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 461.638, \"end\": 462.038, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 462.038, \"end\": 462.398, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 462.398, \"end\": 462.658, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 462.658, \"end\": 462.978, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"剝\"}, {\"word\": \"削\", \"start\": 462.978, \"end\": 463.298, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 463.298, \"end\": 463.439, \"score\": 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\"end\": 467.52, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 467.52, \"end\": 468.0, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 468.0, \"end\": 468.12, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 468.12, \"end\": 468.26, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 468.26, \"end\": 468.38, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 468.38, \"end\": 468.48, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 468.48, \"end\": 468.86, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 468.86, \"end\": 469.14, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 469.14, \"end\": 469.34, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 469.34, \"end\": 469.8, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 469.8, \"end\": 469.94, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 469.94, \"end\": 469.96, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 469.96, \"end\": 470.04, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 470.04, \"end\": 470.2, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 470.2, \"end\": 470.34, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 470.34, \"end\": 470.62, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"跨\", \"start\": 470.62, \"end\": 470.841, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 470.841, \"end\": 471.141, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 471.141, \"end\": 471.241, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 471.241, \"end\": 471.501, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 471.501, \"end\": 472.141, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 472.141, \"end\": 472.241, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 472.241, \"end\": 472.601, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 472.601, \"end\": 472.801, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 472.801, \"end\": 473.261, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 473.261, \"end\": 473.361, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 473.361, \"end\": 473.521, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 473.521, \"end\": 473.661, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 473.661, \"end\": 473.801, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 473.801, \"end\": 475.482, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 475.482, \"end\": 475.642, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 475.642, \"end\": 476.062, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 476.062, \"end\": 476.222, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 476.222, \"end\": 476.362, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 476.362, \"end\": 476.522, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 476.522, \"end\": 476.662, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 476.662, \"end\": 476.862, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 476.862, \"end\": 478.803, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 478.803, \"end\": 479.043, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 479.043, \"end\": 479.283, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 479.283, \"end\": 479.523, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 479.523, \"end\": 479.963, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 479.963, \"end\": 480.163, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 480.163, \"end\": 480.343, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 480.343, \"end\": 480.583, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 480.583, \"end\": 480.743, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 480.743, \"end\": 480.883, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 480.883, \"end\": 481.203, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 481.203, \"end\": 481.604, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"封\", \"start\": 481.604, \"end\": 482.004, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 482.004, \"end\": 482.104, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 482.104, \"end\": 482.264, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 482.264, \"end\": 482.424, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 482.424, \"end\": 482.664, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 482.664, \"end\": 482.684, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 483.524, \"end\": 508.101, \"text\": \"我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 483.524, \"end\": 484.305, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 484.305, \"end\": 484.485, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 484.485, \"end\": 484.805, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 484.805, \"end\": 484.965, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 484.965, \"end\": 485.145, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 485.145, \"end\": 485.265, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 485.265, \"end\": 485.405, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 485.405, \"end\": 485.505, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 485.505, \"end\": 485.666, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 485.666, \"end\": 485.786, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 485.786, \"end\": 485.906, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 485.906, \"end\": 486.066, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 486.066, \"end\": 486.226, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 486.226, \"end\": 486.386, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.386, \"end\": 486.806, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 486.806, \"end\": 486.946, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 486.946, \"end\": 487.127, 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\"end\": 498.034, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 498.034, \"end\": 498.254, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 498.254, \"end\": 498.434, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 498.434, \"end\": 498.594, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 498.594, \"end\": 498.754, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 498.754, \"end\": 499.015, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 499.015, \"end\": 499.395, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"毒\", \"start\": 499.395, \"end\": 499.615, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 499.615, \"end\": 499.795, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 499.795, \"end\": 499.935, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 499.935, \"end\": 500.015, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 500.015, \"end\": 500.696, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 500.696, \"end\": 500.896, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 500.896, \"end\": 501.036, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 501.036, \"end\": 502.557, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 502.557, \"end\": 502.697, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 502.697, \"end\": 503.117, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 503.117, \"end\": 503.258, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 503.258, \"end\": 503.378, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 503.378, \"end\": 503.458, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 503.458, \"end\": 503.898, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"槍\"}, {\"word\": \"械\", \"start\": 503.898, \"end\": 504.098, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 504.098, \"end\": 504.819, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 504.819, \"end\": 505.039, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 505.039, \"end\": 505.299, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 505.299, \"end\": 505.579, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 505.579, \"end\": 505.939, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 505.939, \"end\": 506.1, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 506.1, \"end\": 506.32, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 506.32, \"end\": 506.46, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 506.46, \"end\": 506.8, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 506.8, \"end\": 506.94, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 506.94, \"end\": 507.16, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 507.16, \"end\": 507.46, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"嫁\", \"start\": 507.46, \"end\": 507.761, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 507.761, \"end\": 507.901, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 507.901, \"end\": 508.021, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 508.021, \"end\": 508.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 508.041, \"end\": 508.081, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"販\"}, {\"word\": \"賣\"}, {\"word\": \"槍\"}, {\"word\": \"械\", \"start\": 508.081, \"end\": 508.101, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 511.323, \"end\": 521.996, \"text\": \"如果不行 那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 511.323, \"end\": 511.543, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 511.543, \"end\": 511.704, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 511.704, \"end\": 511.884, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 511.884, \"end\": 512.485, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 512.485, \"end\": 512.785, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 512.785, \"end\": 512.985, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 584.608, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"踢\", \"start\": 584.608, \"end\": 584.768, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"皮\", \"start\": 584.768, \"end\": 584.988, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"球\", \"start\": 584.988, \"end\": 586.048, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 586.048, \"end\": 586.168, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 586.168, \"end\": 586.368, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 586.368, \"end\": 586.528, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"午\", \"start\": 586.528, \"end\": 586.769, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 586.769, \"end\": 587.029, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 587.029, \"end\": 587.149, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 587.149, \"end\": 587.309, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 587.309, \"end\": 587.469, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 587.469, 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{\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 604.536, \"end\": 604.716, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 604.716, \"end\": 604.916, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 604.916, \"end\": 604.936, \"score\": 0.032}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 607.022, \"end\": 607.042, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"瑩\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 607.042, \"end\": 607.202, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 607.202, \"end\": 607.263, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 607.263, \"end\": 607.283, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,973 --> 00:00:36,934\n主席謝謝麻煩請薛瑞媛部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題\n\n2\n00:00:38,135 --> 00:01:02,697\n這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害\n\n3\n00:01:04,178 --> 00:01:33,679\n我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了\n\n4\n00:01:34,909 --> 00:02:02,298\n那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些\n\n5\n00:02:03,058 --> 00:02:26,520\n我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵\n\n6\n00:02:28,207 --> 00:02:37,838\n這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造\n\n7\n00:02:39,509 --> 00:03:08,226\n這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法\n\n8\n00:03:08,906 --> 00:03:35,787\n所以變成就是說要去政策...性私密影像防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是性私密影像其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏\n\n9\n00:03:37,108 --> 00:03:46,916\n那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸\n\n10\n00:03:49,657 --> 00:04:13,624\n這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說\n\n11\n00:04:15,785 --> 00:04:39,503\n當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊\n\n12\n00:04:40,580 --> 00:04:59,581\n我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那NOES再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎\n\n13\n00:05:02,602 --> 00:05:04,103\n邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案\n\n14\n00:05:20,194 --> 00:05:43,650\n他已經花了幾千塊幾萬塊變成會員他去拿到了那個影片確實有這影片被流傳結果跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講我們相關單位還講是說我沒有辦法聯繫他所以我們也要付費加入那個社群網站然後才能夠跟他聯絡公權力被看衰小應該不是這樣子處理這個是報導\n\n15\n00:05:47,401 --> 00:05:47,741\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n\n16\n00:06:02,608 --> 00:06:19,908\n我不用求欸他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他欸我付費給你來跟你溝通\n\n17\n00:06:22,388 --> 00:06:45,257\n公權力被看小,還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭落他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零\n\n18\n00:06:46,442 --> 00:06:52,704\n福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全\n\n19\n00:07:13,151 --> 00:07:40,922\n那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責\n\n20\n00:07:41,638 --> 00:08:02,684\n當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零\n\n21\n00:08:03,524 --> 00:08:28,101\n我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎\n\n22\n00:08:31,323 --> 00:08:41,996\n如果不行那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來\n\n23\n00:08:44,247 --> 00:09:11,412\n當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話比較有可能然後再進去我說真的這個\n\n24\n00:09:13,112 --> 00:09:41,369\n事務發部今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發部我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法\n\n25\n00:09:43,067 --> 00:10:04,936\n我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒\n\n26\n00:10:07,022 --> 00:10:07,283\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10973\t36934\t主席謝謝麻煩請薛瑞媛部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題\n38135\t62697\t這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害\n64178\t93679\t我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了\n94909\t122298\t那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些\n123058\t146520\t我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵\n148207\t157838\t這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造\n159509\t188226\t這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法\n188906\t215787\t所以變成就是說要去政策...性私密影像防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是性私密影像其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏\n217108\t226916\t那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸\n229657\t253624\t這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說\n255785\t279503\t當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊\n280580\t299581\t我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那NOES再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎\n302602\t304103\t邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案\n320194\t343650\t他已經花了幾千塊幾萬塊變成會員他去拿到了那個影片確實有這影片被流傳結果跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講我們相關單位還講是說我沒有辦法聯繫他所以我們也要付費加入那個社群網站然後才能夠跟他聯絡公權力被看衰小應該不是這樣子處理這個是報導\n347401\t347741\t邱議瑩等21人擬具\n362608\t379908\t我不用求欸他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他欸我付費給你來跟你溝通\n382388\t405257\t公權力被看小,還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭落他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零\n406442\t412704\t福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全\n433151\t460922\t那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責\n461638\t482684\t當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零\n483524\t508101\t我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎\n511323\t521996\t如果不行 那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來\n524247\t551412\t當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話比較有可能然後再進去我說真的這個\n553112\t581369\t事務發部今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發部我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法\n583067\t604936\t我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒\n607022\t607283\t邱議瑩等21人擬具\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請薛瑞媛部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題\n這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害\n我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了\n那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些\n我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵\n這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造\n這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法\n所以變成就是說要去政策...性私密影像防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是性私密影像其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏\n那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸\n這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說\n當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊\n我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那NOES再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎\n邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案\n他已經花了幾千塊幾萬塊變成會員他去拿到了那個影片確實有這影片被流傳結果跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講我們相關單位還講是說我沒有辦法聯繫他所以我們也要付費加入那個社群網站然後才能夠跟他聯絡公權力被看衰小應該不是這樣子處理這個是報導\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n我不用求欸他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他欸我付費給你來跟你溝通\n公權力被看小,還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭落他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零\n福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全\n那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責\n當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零\n我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎\n如果不行 那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來\n當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話比較有可能然後再進去我說真的這個\n事務發部今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發部我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法\n我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.973 --> 00:36.934\n主席謝謝麻煩請薛瑞媛部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題\n\n00:38.135 --> 01:02.697\n這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害\n\n01:04.178 --> 01:33.679\n我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了\n\n01:34.909 --> 02:02.298\n那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些\n\n02:03.058 --> 02:26.520\n我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵\n\n02:28.207 --> 02:37.838\n這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造\n\n02:39.509 --> 03:08.226\n這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法\n\n03:08.906 --> 03:35.787\n所以變成就是說要去政策...性私密影像防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是性私密影像其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏\n\n03:37.108 --> 03:46.916\n那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸\n\n03:49.657 --> 04:13.624\n這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說\n\n04:15.785 --> 04:39.503\n當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊\n\n04:40.580 --> 04:59.581\n我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那NOES再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎\n\n05:02.602 --> 05:04.103\n邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案\n\n05:20.194 --> 05:43.650\n他已經花了幾千塊幾萬塊變成會員他去拿到了那個影片確實有這影片被流傳結果跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講我們相關單位還講是說我沒有辦法聯繫他所以我們也要付費加入那個社群網站然後才能夠跟他聯絡公權力被看衰小應該不是這樣子處理這個是報導\n\n05:47.401 --> 05:47.741\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n\n06:02.608 --> 06:19.908\n我不用求欸他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他欸我付費給你來跟你溝通\n\n06:22.388 --> 06:45.257\n公權力被看小,還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭落他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零\n\n06:46.442 --> 06:52.704\n福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全\n\n07:13.151 --> 07:40.922\n那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責\n\n07:41.638 --> 08:02.684\n當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零\n\n08:03.524 --> 08:28.101\n我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎\n\n08:31.323 --> 08:41.996\n如果不行那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來\n\n08:44.247 --> 09:11.412\n當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話比較有可能然後再進去我說真的這個\n\n09:13.112 --> 09:41.369\n事務發部今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發部我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法\n\n09:43.067 --> 10:04.936\n我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒\n\n10:07.022 --> 10:07.283\n邱議瑩等21人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.973,"end":36.934,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請薛瑞媛部長請薛部長委員好部長大家都關心齁除了今天的這個再生醫療法以外這個性私密影像的防護也很重要很多委員今天也都有在做一個討論啊那我們來看一下就是說性私密影像在去年這幾個法修正之後上路到底目前面臨到什麼問題"},{"start":38.135,"end":62.697,"text":"這是去年年底的一個報導他講說現在的成案率只有25%那那個時候幾個部分三大問題第一大問題申訴人沒有辦法確定說就是被拍攝的人所以需要在期限內補件提供更完整的資料那往往申訴人沒有繼續補件就沒有辦法成案請教這部分會不會變成是二次傷害"},{"start":64.178,"end":93.679,"text":"我已經是被偷拍了這個影像就確實就看起來這個當事人就說這個是我結果還認為是說欸沒有喔看起來這影像內部的人跟這個當事人報案人不一樣喔你要再提供那要提供什麼身體特徵還是要再多提供我的這個個人資料那明明對於當事人來講我已經覺得是說這個性私密影像被流入在網路上已經非常難堪或是非常不想再去回想了"},{"start":94.909,"end":122.298,"text":"那我們要求要提供更完整的資料那沒有補件沒有辦法成案造成我們沒有後續的一個保障部長這能不能有更精進的作為這個其實還是有一個就是說證明的問題這大概避免不了那因為假設說這個成案的話那要做一些採取的時候那我們還是必須要有一些"},{"start":123.058,"end":146.52,"text":"我現在知道比如說看到一個網站上面那個影像已經是偷拍了我看出來那個是本人那個是個人然後你就說喔沒有喔這認定那你這樣子不就是逼著這個被害者再去回想或是逼著被害者還要再去提供更多的一個資料那你要認定那個是本人你才可以那是要提供身體特徵"},{"start":148.207,"end":157.838,"text":"這個部分的話其實我臉這邊有一顆字那裡面那個影片裡面有一顆字之前有這個委員被偷拍那個就說那個是AI變造"},{"start":159.509,"end":188.226,"text":"這個部分其實也要做一點分辨就是說是否是兒少對於兒少的部分的話當然我們可以就比較清楚的就是說反正不管哪一個兒少我都是要你下架但是如果是成人的這部分成人是密照被上去做這種傳播的話的確會有一些困難因為成人如果是他自己同意的話基本上就不構成所謂的違法"},{"start":188.906,"end":215.787,"text":"所以變成就是說要去政策...性私密影像防護的精神不管你剛剛講兒少或是性私密影像其實這追根究柢就是什麼就我們希望是能夠保護只要有報案然後而且是從寬認定嘛其實你剛剛講的也有一點點抱歉部長我必須要糾正也有一點點矛盾你說兒少認定比較那可能你是看他的一個身體特徵或是說相關他的臉部看起來比較童顏"},{"start":217.108,"end":226.916,"text":"那你這樣變成是說還是變成是主觀認定你沒有一個才就是你的行政機關沒有發揮你行政機關應該有的保護的一個效果成案率只有25%欸"},{"start":229.657,"end":253.624,"text":"這是去年年底的報導。那現在呢?成案率有沒有提高?有沒有能夠更精進的作為?有到六成可以成案。好,那我再來看第二個部分。這一點我真的是非常的覺得匪夷所思啊。你看他講說"},{"start":255.785,"end":279.503,"text":"當網站被申訴的時候要聯絡網站的業者發現這個業者只有電子郵件信箱或不予回應然後許多負責人各自設不公開需要說明需求才能取得或是花數萬元加入平台所以怎樣我們的衛福部或我們的行政機關變成是我們付費給這種社群的網站我們變成是資助者啊"},{"start":280.58,"end":299.581,"text":"我們付費給這個網站然後告訴我們先付了一筆錢國家的納稅人的錢給這個網站之後然後才能拿到這個網站的一個聯繫方式那NOES再不回你再不理你那變成是我們公權力公部門拿國人的納稅錢去加入社群網站這樣講對嗎"},{"start":302.602,"end":304.103,"text":"邱議瑩等21人擬具〈再生醫療法草案〉案"},{"start":320.194,"end":343.65,"text":"他已經花了幾千塊幾萬塊變成會員他去拿到了那個影片確實有這影片被流傳結果跟我們的衛福部或相關單位講我們相關單位還講是說我沒有辦法聯繫他所以我們也要付費加入那個社群網站然後才能夠跟他聯絡公權力被看衰小應該不是這樣子處理這個是報導"},{"start":347.401,"end":347.741,"text":"邱議瑩等21人擬具"},{"start":362.608,"end":379.908,"text":"我不用求欸他敢在國外架設一個IP架設一個網站然後上面放那麼多的那性私密影像非法的合法的不管怎麼樣他敢拿那個來獲利那已經是就是犯罪者我們還要跟他欸我付費給你來跟你溝通"},{"start":382.388,"end":405.257,"text":"公權力被看小,還有這種犯罪者就不應該溝通嘛你就應該是如果我們沒有辦法在源頭落他犯罪地是在國外我們至少能不能阻絕不讓他跟我們台灣連結所以這就是封網的部分來最後一段性影像如果沒有辦法網路下架那至少限制瀏覽也就是封網的後續處理到目前為止封網的案件數是零"},{"start":406.442,"end":412.704,"text":"福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全"},{"start":433.151,"end":460.922,"text":"那上午有傳到還講說數位部要等衛福部發文衛福部說是內政部的工作還是法務部的工作你們三個部會在互踢皮球是不是我們下午就發文給數位部數位部就採取行動把它封掉了那所以我也問啦說實在話到底衛福部認為這件事情是數位部應該要主動來先做當遇到這個事情到底是衛福部主責數位部主責還是法務部主責"},{"start":461.638,"end":482.684,"text":"當然以兒少性剝削條例的話是衛福部的主管但是技術方面的話其實衛福部是沒有這種能力的所以一定是要跨部會的合作所以溝通上來講是不是應該更加強溝通上來講一定要更加強因為當本席看到說去年年底居然講是說封網的案件是零"},{"start":483.524,"end":508.101,"text":"我講如果說是性私密影像或是未成年的這種影像的話它就是犯罪物犯罪物還可以容許說用這種非法網站來去兜售還來去加會員來去賣錢如果說今天這犯罪物變成是毒品呢我們有可能容許說毒品可以用網站上面來購買嗎如果說這犯罪物是槍械呢我們能夠容許說有一個非法網站上能夠嫁來到台灣然後來販賣槍械嗎"},{"start":511.323,"end":521.996,"text":"如果不行 那為什麼我們會縱容未成年的性私密影像所以應該要動起來的時候公權力絕對要動起來"},{"start":524.247,"end":551.412,"text":"當然這裡面我們也期待說未來如果說貴院要修法的時候去考慮一件事情就是在法律上面授權我們去主動做偵查那這個偵查不是說真的一個一個去看而是說藉由科技數數位科技的一個方式來去偵測說有哪一些網站的話比較有可能然後再進去我說真的這個"},{"start":553.112,"end":581.369,"text":"事務發部今天有這個副署長來副署長不用上來啦事務發部我說實在兩百多億給你們公務預算你們不是就應該做這個事情嗎一年半的時間給你們成立了到現在不就是應該做這個事情嗎這種東西還是要立法嗎當初數位發展部成立的時候不就是應該做這個事情保障國人的權利至少在網路世界裡面結果現在居然還要衛福部長來講是說要我們立法"},{"start":583.067,"end":604.936,"text":"我講不客氣的這根本就是互踢皮球今天上午為什麼我會那麼生氣就是因為今天上午我們聽到媒體還在問說是衛福部、速發部還有法務部三個人互相在講是說權責是誰的時候就莫名其妙這件事情都已經燒到那麼嚴重了大家都已經關心到這個程度了好像只有我們官員還在睡還叫不醒"},{"start":607.022,"end":607.283,"text":"邱議瑩等21人擬具"}]}}}}