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12:46:14","影片長度":"00:07:00","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":420,"end_time":"2024-04-10T12:46:14+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T12:39:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1317,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時39分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長和官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士和先生，有請教育部林次長跟國前署的彭署長。"],["主席：好，有請林次長、彭署長。"],["林次長明裕：委員午安。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好，署長好，我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼，聽好！是國小附幼，還有限期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資，我想請教一下，次長，你有沒有聽過免費的最貴？"],["林次長明裕：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費？"],["林次長明裕：省錢的最浪費？"],["鍾委員佳濱：省錢的方式最浪費，比如說，為了省錢就吃比較差的便當，結果等到年老生病了就要吃補藥，所以食品、藥品跟補品，你寧可把錢花在哪裡？"],["林次長明裕：食品，不要補品。"],["鍾委員佳濱：吃了營養，吃了健康，不要再吃補品，不要吃藥品。好，我們來看一下，因為偏鄉地區托育的資源不足，目前我們國家就是給幼托券，給現金啦，你認為給現金比較省錢，還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢？"],["林次長明裕：我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我算給你看。其實目前的非六都的教保人員不足，什麼叫非六都？不是只有六都？因為六都之外各縣市沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市，所以我們把新竹市跟六都視為是一個high club的，那其他的非七都，2到6歲人口有二十二萬七千多人，以每15班一個人來算的話，大概一萬五千多班，需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人，可是目前實際上非七都的教保人員就一萬七千多人，還差了一萬二千多人，如果以幼兒園每兩個要一個幼教師來計算，還缺了6,378個教師，這裡是把公立、非營利跟私立通通算進去，你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢？"],["林次長明裕：一個人一年至少要60萬。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我馬上算給你看，過去政府給各地方的幼托就學補助大概455億，非六都的占了四分之一，大概要占掉118億，這是我們政府給現金的哦！但是我們看看公立教師的起薪四萬五，14個月，如果我們乘以6,300人的話，一年要40億，有沒有發現給現金要花得比較多欸？你給非七都這麼多孩子幼教師花的錢，比你給父母現金還要省，有沒有發現哪裡有差別？為什麼？我們現在看教保員的起薪，2018年到2023年，私幼、準公幼教保員起薪從二萬九到三萬，公幼、非營利幼兒園三萬到三萬八，我們看到了學前幼兒受照顧的情況，家長擔心，因為他們說準公幼的老師常換，補助這麼多，為什麼這些私立的、準公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高？知道原因嗎？我直接講好了，因為業者只要不是公立國小，他要滿足他客戶的需求，選址很重要，選對了地方，家長才會把孩子送來嘛，而這些地方都不便宜，所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到了業者口袋，不會放在老師身上，放在哪裡？放在房租的成本上，你同意嗎？是不是這樣？"],["林次長明裕：這有可能會出現。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很有可能。好，我們往下看，各地因為少子化，國小面臨併校、廢校，因為教師超額很痛苦，所以目前各縣市的國小教師遇缺都不敢補，而且還要把學校廢掉，根據幼兒教育及照顧法第十條，直轄市、縣市主管機關應協助離島、偏鄉的國民小學附設幼兒園，你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐附設幼兒園？需要再去租房子嗎？不需要嘛！"],["林次長明裕：可以運用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：他就直接運用了嘛，所以學校只差什麼？只差人事費嘛！所以我希望教育部思考一下，專案擴充幼教師資，根據幼教法第二十二條，你可以用勞基法以契約進用。請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢進用正式教師？因為有超額的問題嘛，我請了一個老師，用教師法去進用，要保障他二、三十年的終身工作權，但是如果按幼教法規定可以怎樣？依勞基法契約進用，所以如果運用現在的偏鄉閒置校舍，我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的教保人員包括幼教師，我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的附設幼兒園？可以考慮嗎？"],["林次長明裕：現行也有一部分這樣做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：再往下看，這些10年長約的教保人員，我告訴你，現在師培機構快倒了，不是因為招不到生，是因為連師培機構的老師都快朝不保夕了。這幾年來，我們各國中小的老師不辦教甄，師培機構沒有人報考、就讀，師培機構的校長、教授們也快失業了，現在很多流浪教師有國小教師證，你讓他回師培機構去取得一個幼教師的資格，他就可以成為10年的長約人員，10年長約具有幼教師的資格，他也可以去充實取得教育學生、國小教師的資格。未來我們確定10年內臺灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層，因為現在大家都遇缺不補，到後來一直退，你知道現在我們國小教師平均年齡幾歲嗎？"],["林次長明裕：應該有四十幾歲了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為國小不敢再進用教師，所以教師平均年齡越來越高。"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：等他到了年齡一次退，師培機構再來恢復教甄都來不及了，不如讓現有具有幼教師資格的人有10年長約，讓他去充實國小教師的資格，你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育師資，我們希望未來老師有雙證照，有幼教師和國小教師資格，國中教師有不同的專科。最後的結論是，希望你能夠評估非七都地區現有閒置校舍，廣設國小附幼，師資比照正式教師待遇，正式教師的薪資多少？四萬五起跳，你不要給他三萬二，也不要給他三萬八，給他10年長約，用勞基法進用，未來可以幫忙調節我們的國小教師跟幼教師的需求。可以在三個月內提書面報告嗎？"],["林次長明裕：好，謝謝委員的遠見，對於培育未來的國小教師10年的努力，我們請師資司來研議，結合學前署來跟委員報告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["林次長明裕：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","接下來請鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra 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\"我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 186.545, \"end\": 186.666, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 186.666, \"end\": 186.746, \"score\": 0.576}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 186.746, \"end\": 187.026, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 187.026, \"end\": 187.126, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 187.126, \"end\": 188.026, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 188.026, \"end\": 188.966, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 188.966, \"end\": 189.447, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 189.447, \"end\": 189.607, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 189.607, \"end\": 189.667, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 189.667, \"end\": 189.807, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 189.807, \"end\": 189.987, \"score\": 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\"所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 213.329, \"end\": 213.449, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 213.449, \"end\": 214.089, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 214.089, \"end\": 215.33, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 215.33, \"end\": 215.49, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 215.49, \"end\": 215.79, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 215.79, \"end\": 216.011, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 216.011, \"end\": 216.151, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 216.151, \"end\": 216.391, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 216.391, \"end\": 216.571, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 216.571, \"end\": 216.651, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 216.651, \"end\": 216.951, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 216.951, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 414.917, \"end\": 415.257, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 415.257, \"end\": 415.417, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 415.417, \"end\": 416.018, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 416.018, \"end\": 416.158, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 416.158, \"end\": 416.378, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 416.378, \"end\": 416.598, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 416.598, \"end\": 416.618, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,742 --> 00:00:13,528\n主席：在場的委員．先進列席的政務主任．首長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體新聞女士先生．有請我們教育部林次長．跟國田署的彭署長好有請林次長．彭署長市長好署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下次長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴\n\n2\n00:00:31,516 --> 00:00:32,980\n有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費?\n\n3\n00:00:34,622 --> 00:00:37,924\n目前我們國家偏鄉地區幼托業資源不足目前我們國家就是給幼托券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢?\n\n4\n00:01:05,255 --> 00:01:29,884\n我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢好那我算給你看拿往下看其實目前非六都的教保人員不足你看什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都非七都六都之外沒有個性是沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個highclub的那其他的呢這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人\n\n5\n00:01:32,287 --> 00:01:57,873\n每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢\n\n6\n00:02:03,627 --> 00:02:22,737\n我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億\n\n7\n00:02:24,238 --> 00:02:39,856\n有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看\n\n8\n00:02:41,414 --> 00:03:02,520\n教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老是難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高?為什麼?為什麼?\n\n9\n00:03:06,545 --> 00:03:30,555\n我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎\n\n10\n00:03:33,329 --> 00:03:49,179\n所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉\n\n11\n00:03:50,180 --> 00:04:12,200\n如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們一下看\n\n12\n00:04:13,089 --> 00:04:25,027\n所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:26,994 --> 00:04:49,803\n因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的什麼終身的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園\n\n14\n00:04:51,596 --> 00:04:56,517\n現在師培機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連師培機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵師培機構沒有人學生報考沒有人就讀師培機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了\n\n15\n00:05:18,883 --> 00:05:40,053\n所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層\n\n16\n00:05:41,496 --> 00:05:48,733\n因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了\n\n17\n00:05:51,249 --> 00:06:19,577\n所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育實質未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好所以最後結論主席站起來了\n\n18\n00:06:20,197 --> 00:06:43,107\n希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有前者教授．廣設國小附幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎．\n\n19\n00:06:44,168 --> 00:06:56,618\n謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2742\t13528\t主席：在場的委員．先進列席的政務主任．首長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體新聞女士先生．有請我們教育部林次長．跟國田署的彭署長好 有請林次長．彭署長市長好 署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下次長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴\n31516\t32980\t有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費?\n34622\t37924\t目前我們國家偏鄉地區幼托業資源不足目前我們國家就是給幼托券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢?\n65255\t89884\t我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢好 那我算給你看 拿往下看其實目前非六都的教保人員不足你看 什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都 非七都六都之外沒有 個性是沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個high club的那其他的呢 這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人\n92287\t117873\t每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢\n123627\t142737\t我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億\n144238\t159856\t有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看\n161414\t182520\t教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老是難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高?為什麼?為什麼?\n186545\t210555\t我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎\n213329\t229179\t所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉\n230180\t252200\t如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們一下看\n253089\t265027\t所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎?\n266994\t289803\t因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的什麼 終身的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園\n291596\t296517\t現在師培機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連師培機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵師培機構沒有人學生報考沒有人就讀師培機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了\n318883\t340053\t所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層\n341496\t348733\t因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了\n351249\t379577\t所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育實質未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好所以最後結論主席站起來了\n380197\t403107\t希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有前者教授．廣設國小附幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎．\n404168\t416618\t謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告謝謝主席\n","txt":"主席：在場的委員．先進列席的政務主任．首長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體新聞女士先生．有請我們教育部林次長．跟國田署的彭署長好 有請林次長．彭署長市長好 署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下次長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴\n有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費?\n目前我們國家偏鄉地區幼托業資源不足目前我們國家就是給幼托券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢?\n我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢好 那我算給你看 拿往下看其實目前非六都的教保人員不足你看 什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都 非七都六都之外沒有 個性是沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個high club的那其他的呢 這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人\n每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢\n我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億\n有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看\n教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老是難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高?為什麼?為什麼?\n我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎\n所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉\n如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們一下看\n所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎?\n因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的什麼 終身的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園\n現在師培機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連師培機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵師培機構沒有人學生報考沒有人就讀師培機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了\n所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層\n因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了\n所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育實質未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好所以最後結論主席站起來了\n希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有前者教授．廣設國小附幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎．\n謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.742 --> 00:13.528\n主席：在場的委員．先進列席的政務主任．首長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體新聞女士先生．有請我們教育部林次長．跟國田署的彭署長好有請林次長．彭署長市長好署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下次長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴\n\n00:31.516 --> 00:32.980\n有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費?\n\n00:34.622 --> 00:37.924\n目前我們國家偏鄉地區幼托業資源不足目前我們國家就是給幼托券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢?\n\n01:05.255 --> 01:29.884\n我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢好那我算給你看拿往下看其實目前非六都的教保人員不足你看什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都非七都六都之外沒有個性是沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個highclub的那其他的呢這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人\n\n01:32.287 --> 01:57.873\n每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢\n\n02:03.627 --> 02:22.737\n我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億\n\n02:24.238 --> 02:39.856\n有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看\n\n02:41.414 --> 03:02.520\n教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老是難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高?為什麼?為什麼?\n\n03:06.545 --> 03:30.555\n我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎\n\n03:33.329 --> 03:49.179\n所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉\n\n03:50.180 --> 04:12.200\n如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們一下看\n\n04:13.089 --> 04:25.027\n所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎?\n\n04:26.994 --> 04:49.803\n因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的什麼終身的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園\n\n04:51.596 --> 04:56.517\n現在師培機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連師培機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵師培機構沒有人學生報考沒有人就讀師培機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了\n\n05:18.883 --> 05:40.053\n所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層\n\n05:41.496 --> 05:48.733\n因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了\n\n05:51.249 --> 06:19.577\n所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育實質未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好所以最後結論主席站起來了\n\n06:20.197 --> 06:43.107\n希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有前者教授．廣設國小附幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎．\n\n06:44.168 --> 06:56.618\n謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.742,"end":13.528,"text":"主席：在場的委員．先進列席的政務主任．首長．官員．會長．工作夥伴．媒體新聞女士先生．有請我們教育部林次長．跟國田署的彭署長好 有請林次長．彭署長市長好 署長好我今天的題目就是運用偏鄉閒置校舍廣設國小附幼聽好是國小附幼現期服務的教保人員比照教師薪資我先請教一下次長你有沒有聽過免費的最貴"},{"start":31.516,"end":32.98,"text":"有沒有聽過省錢的方式最浪費?"},{"start":34.622,"end":37.924,"text":"目前我們國家偏鄉地區幼托業資源不足目前我們國家就是給幼托券、給現金你認為給現金比較省錢還是給直接的幼托服務比較省錢?"},{"start":65.255,"end":89.884,"text":"我個人認為是直接給現金比較省錢好 那我算給你看 拿往下看其實目前非六都的教保人員不足你看 什麼叫非六都啊不是有六都 非七都六都之外沒有 個性是沒有偏鄉的就只有新竹市所以新竹市跟六都我們把它視為是一個一個high club的那其他的呢 這非七都呢這2到6歲人口數有22萬7千多人"},{"start":92.287,"end":117.873,"text":"每15班一個人來算的話大概一萬五千多班需要的教保人員包括這三萬出頭人可是目前實際上非七度的人的教保人員只有一萬七千多人還差了一萬兩千多人如果說我們以幼兒園每兩個要一個是幼教師他還缺了六千三百七十八個教師你覺得我這裡的是公立非營利跟私立跟主要通算進去喔你覺得幼兒園的教師差額大概要花多少錢"},{"start":123.627,"end":142.737,"text":"我們過去政府給各地方的幼托就補助大概455億非幼隊的佔了四分之一大概要佔掉118億這是我們政府給現金的喔但是我們看看公立教室的起薪4500014個月如果我們乘以6300人的話一年要40億"},{"start":144.238,"end":159.856,"text":"有沒有發現給現金他花的比較多欸你把給這個非七都的這個這麼多的孩子你給他幼教師花的錢比你給父母現金還要省欸有沒有發現哪裡差別為什麼我們現在看"},{"start":161.414,"end":182.52,"text":"教保員的起薪,我們以私幼、准公幼、教保員的起薪2018年到2023年從2萬9到13萬公幼非營利的教保員起薪3萬2到3萬8我們看到了學前幼兒的受照顧的情況,家長擔心因為准公幼單位說老是難換啊,補助這麼多為什麼這些私立的還有准公幼的還有非營利的薪水還是不高?為什麼?為什麼?"},{"start":186.545,"end":210.555,"text":"我直接講好了因為業者他只要不是公立國小他要去滿足他客戶的需求他在哪裡選職很重要你選對的地方家長才把孩子送來嘛這些地方都不便宜啊所以政府補助給家長的幼托補助多數到的業者口袋不會放在老師身上放在哪裡放在房租的成本上你同意嗎"},{"start":213.329,"end":229.179,"text":"所以我們看到各地因為少子化國小變成病校廢校因為教師超額很痛苦所以目前各縣市的國小教師的預缺都不敢補而且還要把學校廢掉"},{"start":230.18,"end":252.2,"text":"如果說我們根據幼兒教育條例第10條指轄市縣市主管機關應協助離島偏鄉的國民小學復設幼兒園你覺得這些偏鄉的校舍足不足以來支撐復設幼兒園他需要再去租房子嗎?需不需要?不需要嘛可以運用他就直接運用了嘛所以他只差什麼?只差人事費嘛人事費是什麼?來我們一下看"},{"start":253.089,"end":265.027,"text":"所以我希望教育部思考一下專案擴充幼教師資根據幼教法第22條你可以用勞基法以契約禁用請教一下為什麼過去地方政府不敢禁用正式教師嗎?"},{"start":266.994,"end":289.803,"text":"因為有超額的問題嘛我請了一個老師用教師法去應用要保障他2到30年的什麼 終身的工作權嘛但是我們幼教法可以怎樣勞基法契約禁用所以如果運用現在偏鄉的閒置校舍我們用10年的長約聘用合格優質的幼教保人員包括幼教師我們是不是可以把這些偏鄉的孩子納入到國小的複設幼兒園"},{"start":291.596,"end":296.517,"text":"現在師培機構快倒了不是因為照不到生所以連師培機構的老師都快照不保戲了這幾年來我們各國中小的老師不辦教徵師培機構沒有人學生報考沒有人就讀師培機構的校長的這些教授們也快失業了"},{"start":318.883,"end":340.053,"text":"所以如果我們現在很多的流浪教師他有國小教師證你讓他回四倍機構去取得一個幼教師的資格他就可以成為10年的長約人員10年長約具有幼教師的資格他也可以去充實取得教育學生取得國小教師的資格未來我們確定10年內我們台灣的國小教師會出現嚴重的人力斷層"},{"start":341.496,"end":348.733,"text":"因為現在大家都欲缺不補到後來一直退全部現在我們平均年齡你知道現在我們國小教育平均年齡幾年嗎幾歲知道嗎應該有四十幾了"},{"start":351.249,"end":379.577,"text":"所以我們國小教師因為不敢再禁用所以他的年齡越來越高等到他到了年齡一次退你失陪機構再來恢復招生都來不及所以讓這些現有的具有幼教師的人他用10年長約讓他去充實國小教師的資格你也是幫我們未來的國民教育培育實質未來我們希望老師都有雙證照有幼教師有國小教師國中教師有不同的專科好所以最後結論主席站起來了"},{"start":380.197,"end":403.107,"text":"希望你能夠進行評估非契都地區現有前者教授．廣設國小附幼．師資比照正式教師待遇．正式教師的薪資多少．4萬5起跳．你不要給他3萬2．也不要給他3萬8．給他10年長約．用勞資法禁用．未來可以幫忙去調節我們的國小教師．跟幼教師的需求．可以提供3個月內提書面報告嗎．"},{"start":404.168,"end":416.618,"text":"謝謝委員的遠見對於培育未來的幼教國小教師的這個10年的這方面的努力我們請施芝斯來做一下研議結合學前組來跟委員報告謝謝主席"}]}}}}