{"id":151006,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151006","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e9367f3bbbbabf41341a30a144cce7a10f8ba9b0039caa7a61983f8fde3002dc55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:56:28 - 13:04:44","影片長度":"00:08:16","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「所得稅法」12案：\n(一)\t審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等16人、委員魯明哲等23人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」等11案。【本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員賴士葆等28人及委員王正旭等17人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」4案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員黃捷等17人、委員吳宗憲等18人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院委員黃捷等17人及委員吳宗憲等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【11日下午2時止，4月10日及11日二天一次會，僅詢答】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":7,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-7"},"date":"2024-04-10","duration":496,"end_time":"2024-04-10T13:04:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-10T12:56:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1040,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時56分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。有請我們莊部長跟賦稅署的宋署長。"],["主席：部長，宋署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，署長好。有沒有看到這一張照片？你注意到什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：本店免用統一發票。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我看到的是吃比瘦更有福。你猜這是什麼？這是一家餐廳，好，但是你看到重點了，本店免用統一發票。我們今天的主題就是要說小店營業稅的查定課徵落伍耗時，營所稅、綜所稅、開發票一次解決。我們來看一下，請問部長、署長，有沒有在第一線查過小規模營業人的營業稅？部長有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：我沒有去查過。"],["鍾委員佳濱：署長有沒有？"],["宋署長秀玲：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我沒有查過，但是我常常協助店家面對各地國稅局及分局相關的救濟。我們看一下，你知道他怎麼查的嗎？目前小規模營業人占全國的營業人多少，你知道嗎？53萬家，占我們全國登記有案的1/3。你覺得它貢獻的營業稅是多少呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員這邊寫得非常清楚，而且……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不到37億。"],["莊部長翠雲：36.9。"],["鍾委員佳濱：只占我們全部營業稅的0.8%。這麼多的小店家，你用什麼標準讓稅務人員去查？費用還原、分業查定、課稅資料，不管，一般人看不懂。你知道稅務員怎麼看的嗎？一般來講，我告訴你，因為我辦過，疫情期間有營業衝擊損失，為了幫助他們，這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元，但是必須證明什麼？營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎？怎麼樣？上面的教戰守則說，你是早餐店就把桌椅排一排，讓它空蕩蕩地拍個照片。其實小店也沒桌椅，它要證明顧客很少，就讓桌椅空蕩蕩。營業登記後會去做稅籍登記，對不對？稅籍登記以後，你們的稅務人員會去看到底有沒有達到營業稅的小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點，對不對？那你們會根據什麼？看他的面積嘛！這個面積很小，大概一個月做不到20萬，這個面積比較大，你就可以跟他約定，是不是這樣子？簡單講是不是這樣子？署長，是不是這樣？是不是這樣子？"],["宋署長秀玲：報告委員，我們現……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們怎麼認定他的營業額？"],["宋署長秀玲：我們現在有3種查定方式……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不用重複、不用重複。"],["宋署長秀玲：委員您講的就是其中的一種，我們會去看他的坪數。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏，對不對？所以大概每個月起起伏伏，有淡季、有旺季，請問你們的稅務人員可以常常像照顧蘭花草一樣，不時地去看顧嗎？你可以判斷他兩個月報一次的營業額有沒有起伏，有沒有辦法做到呢？不見得，我直接幫你答啦！","那網購平臺就另外講了，網購平臺你們是根據信用卡、進貨、銷貨，有沒有辦法去查出到底網購是不是屬於小規模營業人，要怎麼認定它的營業稅的營業規模？有困難。我以南區國稅局為例，直接告訴你答案，南區國稅局的轄內有將近11萬家小店家，就是未達20萬的，只有不到700個稅務員，你覺得他們有多少時間去這些小店家查核每一段時間它的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模，應該要開發票？還是它營業額下降，應該給它少課徵營業稅，有沒有辦法？能做得到嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：以10萬家，人力負荷上當然是吃緊，但是也不是每個月都去查。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我當然知道，你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難，為什麼？因為你們每年要對這些小店家，不是只有兩個月一次的營業稅，一年一度的營所稅跟綜所稅還是要認定它要繳多少稅，對不對？所以你們的人員還是要幫它算一下，一年至少一次，你認為這個小店家課徵營業稅耗費的人力成本符合嗎？它的貢獻稅金不到0.8%，它的店家規模占了全國營業人的三分之一，你覺得怎麼樣簡政便民，減少你們的人力支出，怎麼做？"],["莊部長翠雲：確實，我們對於起徵點的部分，目前正在檢討當中……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我告訴你一個很簡單的方法，首先你們就一次查定課徵取得三個資料，只要它有做營利事業登記、它申請稅籍，你們去看一下，如果它覺得它的規模應該超過20萬了，施比受更有福，你就要叫它開發票，對不對？開了發票，它的營業稅、營所稅、綜所稅是不是就有發票來認定，是不是這樣子？如果它的營業規模未達20萬，它的營業額，你很難估算，是不是這樣？那麼你就要開始思考，你們要常常去看它未達20萬的營業額要繳多少營業稅，這個需求比較強，還是基於它的營業成長，它生意越做越好，你去看它有沒有到達20萬的規模，鼓勵它開發票，是不是這樣子？後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益，是不是，部長？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是這樣嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：開發票是我們一直要推廣的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對的，所以我的建議就是，你的查定課徵與其耗費高的人力成本去稽查它兩個月的營業稅、它的營業額規模，不如你就加強稅務輔導，不定時再去看一下，它如果到達20萬的規模，鼓勵它開發票，後面的營所稅、綜所稅就一次解決，你同不同意這樣的作法？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，當時我們在實施加值型營業稅的時候，希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做，但是我們考慮到小規模營業人，事實上它會有開發票所需要的一些成本比較高，所以才用查定稅額的方式，所以這個部分是有兩個在這樣處理的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我再講一次，你可能還沒有懂我意思，如果你讓它確定它的營業額超過20萬，鼓勵它開發票了，後面的營所稅跟綜所稅，你還要不要花時間去估算它的營業額，要不要？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，開發票的話就非常清楚……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不用了嘛！它的營業稅也很容易認定，但是如果它未達20萬，你每次去看一看，你是要去看它是48萬還是8萬，還是你去看一看，是看有沒有到達20萬？請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全？你與其花時間去認定它未達20萬營業規模的起起伏伏，不如你好好的去認定，它如果有到達20萬就輔導它開發票，後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民感受的效益？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我結論來了，所以針對小店營業稅的查定課徵已經過時落伍了，我希望財政部對於這些未達20萬營業規模的小店家，你不要再用查定課徵了。該怎麼做，我想我會再跟你們討論，但是針對營所稅、綜所稅開發票一次併同查定，這個是不是比較容易？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，您提出這樣的一個要求，涉及到成本效益分析，是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告？"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為其實一個月後內閣就要改組了，我希望比較有即時性，我當然希望未來財政部由您繼續領導，您就可以用到書面報告，不然也算是做一個成績，讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求，一個月可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們盡力做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。謝謝主席、謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請黃捷委員。黃捷、黃捷，黃委員不在。","請謝衣鳯委員。謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯，謝委員不在。","請張智倫張委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":72,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-7","speakers":["羅明才","賴士葆","林德福","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","黃捷","吳宗憲","黃珊珊","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張雅琳","鍾佳濱","張智倫","蔡易餘","王鴻薇","邱志偉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「所得稅法」12案：(一)審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正\n草案」案、( 二) 審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等 16 人、委員魯明哲等23\n人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊\n瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」\n等11案；二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」 4案：(一)行政院函請審議「加值型及非加值\n型營業稅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員黃捷等17人、委員吳宗憲等\n18人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修正草案」等3案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1132701_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"151006","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151006","tool":"pyannote","id":"151006-pyannote"},"job_id":"jMbflHVy7M7RX4eV","queued_at":"2024-06-01 12:10:51","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 12:11:57","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151006"},{"time":"2024-06-01 12:11:57","msg":"downloading 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{\"word\": \"卿\", \"start\": 494.134, \"end\": 494.154, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,128 --> 00:00:32,425\n主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們莊部長跟負稅署的宋署長。宋署長。委員好。部長好、署長好。有沒有看到這張照片?你注意到什麼?\n\n2\n00:00:33,459 --> 00:00:57,170\n哦,本店免用統一發票我看到的是吃比瘦更有福你猜這是什麼?這是一家餐廳好,但是你看到重點了本店免用統一發票來,我們今天的主題呢就是要說小店營業稅的查訂課徵若五號時營所稅、眾所稅開發票一次解決好,我們來看一下請問部長、署長有沒有在第一線查過小店的營業稅?小部分的營業人?部長有沒有?\n\n3\n00:01:01,786 --> 00:01:27,140\n來,署長有沒有?沒有。我是沒有查過,但是我常常協助店家面對我們各地國稅局及分局他們相關的這些救濟。好,那我們看一下。那你知道他怎麼查的嗎?目前我們小規模營業人,你知道嗎?占我們全國的營業人多少?知道嗎?53萬家占我們全國登記有案的三分之一。那你覺得他貢獻的營業稅多少呢?\n\n4\n00:01:29,576 --> 00:01:30,638\n不到37億只佔我們全部營業稅的0.8\n\n5\n00:01:36,298 --> 00:02:01,117\n這麼多的小店家,你用什麼?我們稅務人員說什麼?費用還原、分業查訂、課稅資料。好,不管。一般人看不懂,往下看。那你知道稅務人員是怎麼看的嗎?一般來講,我告訴你喔,因為我辦過啊,在疫情期間,我們有一個營業衝擊損失。為了要幫助他們,這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元。但是呢,必須證明什麼?營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎?欸?\n\n6\n00:02:03,561 --> 00:02:03,681\n副總統、副總統、副總統、副總統\n\n7\n00:02:21,089 --> 00:02:44,151\n那個做營業登記後會去做稅籍登記對不對稅籍登記後你們的稅務人員就去看他到底有沒有達到了營業稅的一個小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點對不對那你們會根據什麼看他面積嘛這個面積很小大概一個月做不到20萬這個面積比較大你就可以看他約定是不是這樣子簡單講是不是這樣子署長是不是這樣\n\n8\n00:02:46,448 --> 00:03:14,122\n是不是這樣子?你們怎麼認定他的營業額?委員你講的就是其中的一種,然後我們會去看他的評數。好,但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏嘛,對不對?所以大概每個月有起起伏,有淡季、有旺季。請問你們所有人員可以常常去蘭花草一樣不時的去看顧嗎?你可以判斷他每個月的營業額,兩個月報一次營業額有沒有起伏,有沒有辦法做到呢?\n\n9\n00:03:15,165 --> 00:03:30,123\n不見得我直接幫你答了好再往下看那網購平台就另外講了網購平台呢你們是根據他信用卡他進貨銷貨那有沒有辦法去查出他到底網購他是不是屬於小規模營業人要怎麼認定他的營業稅稅營業稅的營業規模\n\n10\n00:03:34,414 --> 00:03:50,742\n有困難我以南區國稅局來直接告訴你答案南區國稅局的狹內有將近十億萬家小店家就是為了20萬的只有不到700個稅務員你覺得他們有多少時間去跟小店家查核每一段時間他的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模應該要開發票還是他營業額下降應該給他掃課這營業稅有沒有辦法能做得到嗎\n\n11\n00:04:01,249 --> 00:04:28,121\n人力負荷上當然是以十萬加但是也不是每個月都去查嘛我當然知道啦你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難為什麼因為你們每年要對這些小店家不是只有兩個月一次營業稅一年一度的營所稅跟種所稅還是要認定他要繳多少稅對不對是不是所以你們的人員還是要幫他算一下一年至少一次你認為這個小店家課程營業稅的耗費的比例人力成本符合嗎\n\n12\n00:04:29,301 --> 00:04:38,216\n他的貢獻稅金不到0.8%。他的店家規模佔了我們全國營業人三分之一。您覺得怎麼樣檢證便民、減少你們的人力支出?\n\n13\n00:04:40,489 --> 00:05:02,280\n怎麼做?確實我們在我們會這個部分對起徵點的部分也目前正在檢討的那我告訴你一個很簡單的方法首先你們就一次查訂課徵取得三個資料只要他來做營利事業登記他申請稅籍你們就看一下如果他覺得他的規模應該超過20萬了不管他是吃比瘦更有福你就要叫他開發票對不對?開了發票他的營業稅、營所稅、眾所稅是不是就有發票來認定?是不是這樣子?\n\n14\n00:05:09,332 --> 00:05:36,578\n那如果他的營業規模未達20萬那他的營業額你很難估算嘛是不是這樣那你就開始思考囉你們要常常去看他未達20萬的營業額要找多少營業稅這個需求比較強還是基於他的營業成長他生意越做越好你去看他有沒有到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票是不是這樣子後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益是不是部長\n\n15\n00:05:42,992 --> 00:06:03,551\n所以我的建議就是說與其你的查訂課徵與其你耗費高的人力成本去積查他兩個月的營業稅他的營業額規模不如你就加上稅務輔導不定時的去看一下他如果到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票後面的營所稅、重所稅都一次解決你同不同意這樣的做法\n\n16\n00:06:05,536 --> 00:06:34,378\n報告喔當時我們在實施加執行營業稅的時候就希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做但是我們考慮到小規模營業人事實上他會有一些開發票所需要一些成本比較高所以才用查訂稅額的方式那所以這個部分是有兩個兩個在這樣子在我再講一次你可能還沒有懂意思如果你讓他確定他的營業額超過20萬鼓勵他開發票了後面的營所稅跟眾所稅你還要不要花時間去估算他的營業額要不要\n\n17\n00:06:36,244 --> 00:06:52,270\n不用了嘛,他的營業稅也很容易認定嘛,但是如果他未達20萬,你每次去看一看,你是要去看說你48萬還是8萬,還是你去看一看是看到說有沒有到達20萬,請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全?\n\n18\n00:06:53,350 --> 00:07:07,259\n你與其花時間去認定他未達20萬的營業規模的起起伏伏不如你好好的去認定他如果有到達20萬就輔導他開發票後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民的感受的效益\n\n19\n00:07:09,756 --> 00:07:34,726\n所以我希望說請財政部針對小店營業稅的查訂課徵已經過時落伍了我希望你們對於這個小店家未達20萬營業規模的小店家你不要再用查訂課徵了該怎麼做我想我會再跟你們討論但是呢你針對營所稅、眾所稅、開發票一次並同查訂這個是不是比較容易\n\n20\n00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:43,491\n委員您提出這樣的一個要求那涉及到成本效益分析是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告\n\n21\n00:07:45,102 --> 00:08:06,253\n因為其實一個月後我們內閣就要改組了啦我希望比較有即時性啦我當然希望說為了財政部呢您繼續領導這個你就可以用到這個書面報告不然也算是做一個沉積讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求一個月可不可以這個我們盡力的盡力做好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝署長\n\n22\n00:08:13,992 --> 00:08:14,154\n賴慧卿\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14128\t32425\t主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們莊部長跟負稅署的宋署長。宋署長。委員好。部長好、署長好。有沒有看到這張照片?你注意到什麼?\n33459\t57170\t哦,本店免用統一發票我看到的是吃比瘦更有福你猜這是什麼?這是一家餐廳好,但是你看到重點了本店免用統一發票來,我們今天的主題呢就是要說小店營業稅的查訂課徵若五號時營所稅、眾所稅開發票一次解決好,我們來看一下請問部長、署長有沒有在第一線查過小店的營業稅?小部分的營業人?部長有沒有?\n61786\t87140\t來,署長有沒有?沒有。我是沒有查過,但是我常常協助店家面對我們各地國稅局及分局他們相關的這些救濟。好,那我們看一下。那你知道他怎麼查的嗎?目前我們小規模營業人,你知道嗎?占我們全國的營業人多少?知道嗎?53萬家占我們全國登記有案的三分之一。那你覺得他貢獻的營業稅多少呢?\n89576\t90638\t不到37億只佔我們全部營業稅的0.8\n96298\t121117\t這麼多的小店家,你用什麼?我們稅務人員說什麼?費用還原、分業查訂、課稅資料。好,不管。一般人看不懂,往下看。那你知道稅務人員是怎麼看的嗎?一般來講,我告訴你喔,因為我辦過啊,在疫情期間,我們有一個營業衝擊損失。為了要幫助他們,這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元。但是呢,必須證明什麼?營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎?欸?\n123561\t123681\t副總統、副總統、副總統、副總統\n141089\t164151\t那個做營業登記後會去做稅籍登記對不對稅籍登記後你們的稅務人員就去看他到底有沒有達到了營業稅的一個小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點對不對那你們會根據什麼看他面積嘛這個面積很小大概一個月做不到20萬這個面積比較大你就可以看他約定是不是這樣子簡單講是不是這樣子署長是不是這樣\n166448\t194122\t是不是這樣子?你們怎麼認定他的營業額?委員你講的就是其中的一種,然後我們會去看他的評數。好,但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏嘛,對不對?所以大概每個月有起起伏,有淡季、有旺季。請問你們所有人員可以常常去蘭花草一樣不時的去看顧嗎?你可以判斷他每個月的營業額,兩個月報一次營業額有沒有起伏,有沒有辦法做到呢?\n195165\t210123\t不見得我直接幫你答了好再往下看那網購平台就另外講了網購平台呢你們是根據他信用卡他進貨銷貨那有沒有辦法去查出他到底網購他是不是屬於小規模營業人要怎麼認定他的營業稅稅營業稅的營業規模\n214414\t230742\t有困難我以南區國稅局來直接告訴你答案南區國稅局的狹內有將近十億萬家小店家就是為了20萬的只有不到700個稅務員你覺得他們有多少時間去跟小店家查核每一段時間他的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模應該要開發票還是他營業額下降應該給他掃課這營業稅有沒有辦法能做得到嗎\n241249\t268121\t人力負荷上當然是以十萬加但是也不是每個月都去查嘛我當然知道啦你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難為什麼因為你們每年要對這些小店家不是只有兩個月一次營業稅一年一度的營所稅跟種所稅還是要認定他要繳多少稅對不對是不是所以你們的人員還是要幫他算一下一年至少一次你認為這個小店家課程營業稅的耗費的比例人力成本符合嗎\n269301\t278216\t他的貢獻稅金不到0.8%。他的店家規模佔了我們全國營業人三分之一。您覺得怎麼樣檢證便民、減少你們的人力支出?\n280489\t302280\t怎麼做?確實我們在我們會這個部分對起徵點的部分也目前正在檢討的那我告訴你一個很簡單的方法首先你們就一次查訂課徵取得三個資料只要他來做營利事業登記他申請稅籍你們就看一下如果他覺得他的規模應該超過20萬了不管他是吃比瘦更有福你就要叫他開發票對不對?開了發票他的營業稅、營所稅、眾所稅是不是就有發票來認定?是不是這樣子?\n309332\t336578\t那如果他的營業規模未達20萬那他的營業額你很難估算嘛是不是這樣那你就開始思考囉你們要常常去看他未達20萬的營業額要找多少營業稅這個需求比較強還是基於他的營業成長他生意越做越好你去看他有沒有到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票是不是這樣子後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益是不是部長\n342992\t363551\t所以我的建議就是說與其你的查訂課徵與其你耗費高的人力成本去積查他兩個月的營業稅他的營業額規模不如你就加上稅務輔導不定時的去看一下他如果到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票後面的營所稅、重所稅都一次解決你同不同意這樣的做法\n365536\t394378\t報告喔當時我們在實施加執行營業稅的時候就希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做但是我們考慮到小規模營業人事實上他會有一些開發票所需要一些成本比較高所以才用查訂稅額的方式那所以這個部分是有兩個兩個在這樣子在我再講一次你可能還沒有懂意思如果你讓他確定他的營業額超過20萬鼓勵他開發票了後面的營所稅跟眾所稅你還要不要花時間去估算他的營業額要不要\n396244\t412270\t不用了嘛,他的營業稅也很容易認定嘛,但是如果他未達20萬,你每次去看一看,你是要去看說你48萬還是8萬,還是你去看一看是看到說有沒有到達20萬,請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全?\n413350\t427259\t你與其花時間去認定他未達20萬的營業規模的起起伏伏不如你好好的去認定他如果有到達20萬就輔導他開發票後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民的感受的效益\n429756\t454726\t所以我希望說請財政部針對小店營業稅的查訂課徵已經過時落伍了我希望你們對於這個小店家未達20萬營業規模的小店家你不要再用查訂課徵了該怎麼做我想我會再跟你們討論但是呢你針對營所稅、眾所稅、開發票一次並同查訂這個是不是比較容易\n457040\t463491\t委員您提出這樣的一個要求那涉及到成本效益分析是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告\n465102\t486253\t因為其實一個月後我們內閣就要改組了啦我希望比較有即時性啦我當然希望說為了財政部呢您繼續領導這個你就可以用到這個書面報告不然也算是做一個沉積讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求一個月可不可以這個我們盡力的盡力做好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝署長\n493992\t494154\t賴慧卿\n","txt":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們莊部長跟負稅署的宋署長。宋署長。委員好。部長好、署長好。有沒有看到這張照片?你注意到什麼?\n哦,本店免用統一發票我看到的是吃比瘦更有福你猜這是什麼?這是一家餐廳好,但是你看到重點了本店免用統一發票來,我們今天的主題呢就是要說小店營業稅的查訂課徵若五號時營所稅、眾所稅開發票一次解決好,我們來看一下請問部長、署長有沒有在第一線查過小店的營業稅?小部分的營業人?部長有沒有?\n來,署長有沒有?沒有。我是沒有查過,但是我常常協助店家面對我們各地國稅局及分局他們相關的這些救濟。好,那我們看一下。那你知道他怎麼查的嗎?目前我們小規模營業人,你知道嗎?占我們全國的營業人多少?知道嗎?53萬家占我們全國登記有案的三分之一。那你覺得他貢獻的營業稅多少呢?\n不到37億只佔我們全部營業稅的0.8\n這麼多的小店家,你用什麼?我們稅務人員說什麼?費用還原、分業查訂、課稅資料。好,不管。一般人看不懂,往下看。那你知道稅務人員是怎麼看的嗎?一般來講,我告訴你喔,因為我辦過啊,在疫情期間,我們有一個營業衝擊損失。為了要幫助他們,這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元。但是呢,必須證明什麼?營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎?欸?\n副總統、副總統、副總統、副總統\n那個做營業登記後會去做稅籍登記對不對稅籍登記後你們的稅務人員就去看他到底有沒有達到了營業稅的一個小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點對不對那你們會根據什麼看他面積嘛這個面積很小大概一個月做不到20萬這個面積比較大你就可以看他約定是不是這樣子簡單講是不是這樣子署長是不是這樣\n是不是這樣子?你們怎麼認定他的營業額?委員你講的就是其中的一種,然後我們會去看他的評數。好,但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏嘛,對不對?所以大概每個月有起起伏,有淡季、有旺季。請問你們所有人員可以常常去蘭花草一樣不時的去看顧嗎?你可以判斷他每個月的營業額,兩個月報一次營業額有沒有起伏,有沒有辦法做到呢?\n不見得我直接幫你答了好再往下看那網購平台就另外講了網購平台呢你們是根據他信用卡他進貨銷貨那有沒有辦法去查出他到底網購他是不是屬於小規模營業人要怎麼認定他的營業稅稅營業稅的營業規模\n有困難我以南區國稅局來直接告訴你答案南區國稅局的狹內有將近十億萬家小店家就是為了20萬的只有不到700個稅務員你覺得他們有多少時間去跟小店家查核每一段時間他的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模應該要開發票還是他營業額下降應該給他掃課這營業稅有沒有辦法能做得到嗎\n人力負荷上當然是以十萬加但是也不是每個月都去查嘛我當然知道啦你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難為什麼因為你們每年要對這些小店家不是只有兩個月一次營業稅一年一度的營所稅跟種所稅還是要認定他要繳多少稅對不對是不是所以你們的人員還是要幫他算一下一年至少一次你認為這個小店家課程營業稅的耗費的比例人力成本符合嗎\n他的貢獻稅金不到0.8%。他的店家規模佔了我們全國營業人三分之一。您覺得怎麼樣檢證便民、減少你們的人力支出?\n怎麼做?確實我們在我們會這個部分對起徵點的部分也目前正在檢討的那我告訴你一個很簡單的方法首先你們就一次查訂課徵取得三個資料只要他來做營利事業登記他申請稅籍你們就看一下如果他覺得他的規模應該超過20萬了不管他是吃比瘦更有福你就要叫他開發票對不對?開了發票他的營業稅、營所稅、眾所稅是不是就有發票來認定?是不是這樣子?\n那如果他的營業規模未達20萬那他的營業額你很難估算嘛是不是這樣那你就開始思考囉你們要常常去看他未達20萬的營業額要找多少營業稅這個需求比較強還是基於他的營業成長他生意越做越好你去看他有沒有到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票是不是這樣子後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益是不是部長\n所以我的建議就是說與其你的查訂課徵與其你耗費高的人力成本去積查他兩個月的營業稅他的營業額規模不如你就加上稅務輔導不定時的去看一下他如果到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票後面的營所稅、重所稅都一次解決你同不同意這樣的做法\n報告喔當時我們在實施加執行營業稅的時候就希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做但是我們考慮到小規模營業人事實上他會有一些開發票所需要一些成本比較高所以才用查訂稅額的方式那所以這個部分是有兩個兩個在這樣子在我再講一次你可能還沒有懂意思如果你讓他確定他的營業額超過20萬鼓勵他開發票了後面的營所稅跟眾所稅你還要不要花時間去估算他的營業額要不要\n不用了嘛,他的營業稅也很容易認定嘛,但是如果他未達20萬,你每次去看一看,你是要去看說你48萬還是8萬,還是你去看一看是看到說有沒有到達20萬,請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全?\n你與其花時間去認定他未達20萬的營業規模的起起伏伏不如你好好的去認定他如果有到達20萬就輔導他開發票後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民的感受的效益\n所以我希望說請財政部針對小店營業稅的查訂課徵已經過時落伍了我希望你們對於這個小店家未達20萬營業規模的小店家你不要再用查訂課徵了該怎麼做我想我會再跟你們討論但是呢你針對營所稅、眾所稅、開發票一次並同查訂這個是不是比較容易\n委員您提出這樣的一個要求那涉及到成本效益分析是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告\n因為其實一個月後我們內閣就要改組了啦我希望比較有即時性啦我當然希望說為了財政部呢您繼續領導這個你就可以用到這個書面報告不然也算是做一個沉積讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求一個月可不可以這個我們盡力的盡力做好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝署長\n賴慧卿\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.128 --> 00:32.425\n主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們莊部長跟負稅署的宋署長。宋署長。委員好。部長好、署長好。有沒有看到這張照片?你注意到什麼?\n\n00:33.459 --> 00:57.170\n哦,本店免用統一發票我看到的是吃比瘦更有福你猜這是什麼?這是一家餐廳好,但是你看到重點了本店免用統一發票來,我們今天的主題呢就是要說小店營業稅的查訂課徵若五號時營所稅、眾所稅開發票一次解決好,我們來看一下請問部長、署長有沒有在第一線查過小店的營業稅?小部分的營業人?部長有沒有?\n\n01:01.786 --> 01:27.140\n來,署長有沒有?沒有。我是沒有查過,但是我常常協助店家面對我們各地國稅局及分局他們相關的這些救濟。好,那我們看一下。那你知道他怎麼查的嗎?目前我們小規模營業人,你知道嗎?占我們全國的營業人多少?知道嗎?53萬家占我們全國登記有案的三分之一。那你覺得他貢獻的營業稅多少呢?\n\n01:29.576 --> 01:30.638\n不到37億只佔我們全部營業稅的0.8\n\n01:36.298 --> 02:01.117\n這麼多的小店家,你用什麼?我們稅務人員說什麼?費用還原、分業查訂、課稅資料。好,不管。一般人看不懂,往下看。那你知道稅務人員是怎麼看的嗎?一般來講,我告訴你喔,因為我辦過啊,在疫情期間,我們有一個營業衝擊損失。為了要幫助他們,這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元。但是呢,必須證明什麼?營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎?欸?\n\n02:03.561 --> 02:03.681\n副總統、副總統、副總統、副總統\n\n02:21.089 --> 02:44.151\n那個做營業登記後會去做稅籍登記對不對稅籍登記後你們的稅務人員就去看他到底有沒有達到了營業稅的一個小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點對不對那你們會根據什麼看他面積嘛這個面積很小大概一個月做不到20萬這個面積比較大你就可以看他約定是不是這樣子簡單講是不是這樣子署長是不是這樣\n\n02:46.448 --> 03:14.122\n是不是這樣子?你們怎麼認定他的營業額?委員你講的就是其中的一種,然後我們會去看他的評數。好,但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏嘛,對不對?所以大概每個月有起起伏,有淡季、有旺季。請問你們所有人員可以常常去蘭花草一樣不時的去看顧嗎?你可以判斷他每個月的營業額,兩個月報一次營業額有沒有起伏,有沒有辦法做到呢?\n\n03:15.165 --> 03:30.123\n不見得我直接幫你答了好再往下看那網購平台就另外講了網購平台呢你們是根據他信用卡他進貨銷貨那有沒有辦法去查出他到底網購他是不是屬於小規模營業人要怎麼認定他的營業稅稅營業稅的營業規模\n\n03:34.414 --> 03:50.742\n有困難我以南區國稅局來直接告訴你答案南區國稅局的狹內有將近十億萬家小店家就是為了20萬的只有不到700個稅務員你覺得他們有多少時間去跟小店家查核每一段時間他的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模應該要開發票還是他營業額下降應該給他掃課這營業稅有沒有辦法能做得到嗎\n\n04:01.249 --> 04:28.121\n人力負荷上當然是以十萬加但是也不是每個月都去查嘛我當然知道啦你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難為什麼因為你們每年要對這些小店家不是只有兩個月一次營業稅一年一度的營所稅跟種所稅還是要認定他要繳多少稅對不對是不是所以你們的人員還是要幫他算一下一年至少一次你認為這個小店家課程營業稅的耗費的比例人力成本符合嗎\n\n04:29.301 --> 04:38.216\n他的貢獻稅金不到0.8%。他的店家規模佔了我們全國營業人三分之一。您覺得怎麼樣檢證便民、減少你們的人力支出?\n\n04:40.489 --> 05:02.280\n怎麼做?確實我們在我們會這個部分對起徵點的部分也目前正在檢討的那我告訴你一個很簡單的方法首先你們就一次查訂課徵取得三個資料只要他來做營利事業登記他申請稅籍你們就看一下如果他覺得他的規模應該超過20萬了不管他是吃比瘦更有福你就要叫他開發票對不對?開了發票他的營業稅、營所稅、眾所稅是不是就有發票來認定?是不是這樣子?\n\n05:09.332 --> 05:36.578\n那如果他的營業規模未達20萬那他的營業額你很難估算嘛是不是這樣那你就開始思考囉你們要常常去看他未達20萬的營業額要找多少營業稅這個需求比較強還是基於他的營業成長他生意越做越好你去看他有沒有到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票是不是這樣子後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益是不是部長\n\n05:42.992 --> 06:03.551\n所以我的建議就是說與其你的查訂課徵與其你耗費高的人力成本去積查他兩個月的營業稅他的營業額規模不如你就加上稅務輔導不定時的去看一下他如果到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票後面的營所稅、重所稅都一次解決你同不同意這樣的做法\n\n06:05.536 --> 06:34.378\n報告喔當時我們在實施加執行營業稅的時候就希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做但是我們考慮到小規模營業人事實上他會有一些開發票所需要一些成本比較高所以才用查訂稅額的方式那所以這個部分是有兩個兩個在這樣子在我再講一次你可能還沒有懂意思如果你讓他確定他的營業額超過20萬鼓勵他開發票了後面的營所稅跟眾所稅你還要不要花時間去估算他的營業額要不要\n\n06:36.244 --> 06:52.270\n不用了嘛,他的營業稅也很容易認定嘛,但是如果他未達20萬,你每次去看一看,你是要去看說你48萬還是8萬,還是你去看一看是看到說有沒有到達20萬,請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全?\n\n06:53.350 --> 07:07.259\n你與其花時間去認定他未達20萬的營業規模的起起伏伏不如你好好的去認定他如果有到達20萬就輔導他開發票後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民的感受的效益\n\n07:09.756 --> 07:34.726\n所以我希望說請財政部針對小店營業稅的查訂課徵已經過時落伍了我希望你們對於這個小店家未達20萬營業規模的小店家你不要再用查訂課徵了該怎麼做我想我會再跟你們討論但是呢你針對營所稅、眾所稅、開發票一次並同查訂這個是不是比較容易\n\n07:37.040 --> 07:43.491\n委員您提出這樣的一個要求那涉及到成本效益分析是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告\n\n07:45.102 --> 08:06.253\n因為其實一個月後我們內閣就要改組了啦我希望比較有即時性啦我當然希望說為了財政部呢您繼續領導這個你就可以用到這個書面報告不然也算是做一個沉積讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求一個月可不可以這個我們盡力的盡力做好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝署長\n\n08:13.992 --> 08:14.154\n賴慧卿\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.128,"end":32.425,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請我們莊部長跟負稅署的宋署長。宋署長。委員好。部長好、署長好。有沒有看到這張照片?你注意到什麼?"},{"start":33.459,"end":57.17,"text":"哦,本店免用統一發票我看到的是吃比瘦更有福你猜這是什麼?這是一家餐廳好,但是你看到重點了本店免用統一發票來,我們今天的主題呢就是要說小店營業稅的查訂課徵若五號時營所稅、眾所稅開發票一次解決好,我們來看一下請問部長、署長有沒有在第一線查過小店的營業稅?小部分的營業人?部長有沒有?"},{"start":61.786,"end":87.14,"text":"來,署長有沒有?沒有。我是沒有查過,但是我常常協助店家面對我們各地國稅局及分局他們相關的這些救濟。好,那我們看一下。那你知道他怎麼查的嗎?目前我們小規模營業人,你知道嗎?占我們全國的營業人多少?知道嗎?53萬家占我們全國登記有案的三分之一。那你覺得他貢獻的營業稅多少呢?"},{"start":89.576,"end":90.638,"text":"不到37億只佔我們全部營業稅的0.8"},{"start":96.298,"end":121.117,"text":"這麼多的小店家,你用什麼?我們稅務人員說什麼?費用還原、分業查訂、課稅資料。好,不管。一般人看不懂,往下看。那你知道稅務人員是怎麼看的嗎?一般來講,我告訴你喔,因為我辦過啊,在疫情期間,我們有一個營業衝擊損失。為了要幫助他們,這些小店家可以申請一次4萬元。但是呢,必須證明什麼?營業有損失。你知道他們怎麼證明營業有損失嗎?欸?"},{"start":123.561,"end":123.681,"text":"副總統、副總統、副總統、副總統"},{"start":141.089,"end":164.151,"text":"那個做營業登記後會去做稅籍登記對不對稅籍登記後你們的稅務人員就去看他到底有沒有達到了營業稅的一個小規模營業人20萬開發票的起徵點對不對那你們會根據什麼看他面積嘛這個面積很小大概一個月做不到20萬這個面積比較大你就可以看他約定是不是這樣子簡單講是不是這樣子署長是不是這樣"},{"start":166.448,"end":194.122,"text":"是不是這樣子?你們怎麼認定他的營業額?委員你講的就是其中的一種,然後我們會去看他的評數。好,但是實際的營業狀況會有起伏嘛,對不對?所以大概每個月有起起伏,有淡季、有旺季。請問你們所有人員可以常常去蘭花草一樣不時的去看顧嗎?你可以判斷他每個月的營業額,兩個月報一次營業額有沒有起伏,有沒有辦法做到呢?"},{"start":195.165,"end":210.123,"text":"不見得我直接幫你答了好再往下看那網購平台就另外講了網購平台呢你們是根據他信用卡他進貨銷貨那有沒有辦法去查出他到底網購他是不是屬於小規模營業人要怎麼認定他的營業稅稅營業稅的營業規模"},{"start":214.414,"end":230.742,"text":"有困難我以南區國稅局來直接告訴你答案南區國稅局的狹內有將近十億萬家小店家就是為了20萬的只有不到700個稅務員你覺得他們有多少時間去跟小店家查核每一段時間他的營業額有沒有達到20萬以上的規模應該要開發票還是他營業額下降應該給他掃課這營業稅有沒有辦法能做得到嗎"},{"start":241.249,"end":268.121,"text":"人力負荷上當然是以十萬加但是也不是每個月都去查嘛我當然知道啦你們連一年去一次恐怕都有困難為什麼因為你們每年要對這些小店家不是只有兩個月一次營業稅一年一度的營所稅跟種所稅還是要認定他要繳多少稅對不對是不是所以你們的人員還是要幫他算一下一年至少一次你認為這個小店家課程營業稅的耗費的比例人力成本符合嗎"},{"start":269.301,"end":278.216,"text":"他的貢獻稅金不到0.8%。他的店家規模佔了我們全國營業人三分之一。您覺得怎麼樣檢證便民、減少你們的人力支出?"},{"start":280.489,"end":302.28,"text":"怎麼做?確實我們在我們會這個部分對起徵點的部分也目前正在檢討的那我告訴你一個很簡單的方法首先你們就一次查訂課徵取得三個資料只要他來做營利事業登記他申請稅籍你們就看一下如果他覺得他的規模應該超過20萬了不管他是吃比瘦更有福你就要叫他開發票對不對?開了發票他的營業稅、營所稅、眾所稅是不是就有發票來認定?是不是這樣子?"},{"start":309.332,"end":336.578,"text":"那如果他的營業規模未達20萬那他的營業額你很難估算嘛是不是這樣那你就開始思考囉你們要常常去看他未達20萬的營業額要找多少營業稅這個需求比較強還是基於他的營業成長他生意越做越好你去看他有沒有到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票是不是這樣子後者是不是比前者更符合我們徵稅的效益是不是部長"},{"start":342.992,"end":363.551,"text":"所以我的建議就是說與其你的查訂課徵與其你耗費高的人力成本去積查他兩個月的營業稅他的營業額規模不如你就加上稅務輔導不定時的去看一下他如果到達20萬的規模鼓勵他開發票後面的營所稅、重所稅都一次解決你同不同意這樣的做法"},{"start":365.536,"end":394.378,"text":"報告喔當時我們在實施加執行營業稅的時候就希望就是以開統一發票的方式來做但是我們考慮到小規模營業人事實上他會有一些開發票所需要一些成本比較高所以才用查訂稅額的方式那所以這個部分是有兩個兩個在這樣子在我再講一次你可能還沒有懂意思如果你讓他確定他的營業額超過20萬鼓勵他開發票了後面的營所稅跟眾所稅你還要不要花時間去估算他的營業額要不要"},{"start":396.244,"end":412.27,"text":"不用了嘛,他的營業稅也很容易認定嘛,但是如果他未達20萬,你每次去看一看,你是要去看說你48萬還是8萬,還是你去看一看是看到說有沒有到達20萬,請問哪一種比較符合你們稅務的健全?"},{"start":413.35,"end":427.259,"text":"你與其花時間去認定他未達20萬的營業規模的起起伏伏不如你好好的去認定他如果有到達20萬就輔導他開發票後者是不是比較符合我們徵稅跟人民的感受的效益"},{"start":429.756,"end":454.726,"text":"所以我希望說請財政部針對小店營業稅的查訂課徵已經過時落伍了我希望你們對於這個小店家未達20萬營業規模的小店家你不要再用查訂課徵了該怎麼做我想我會再跟你們討論但是呢你針對營所稅、眾所稅、開發票一次並同查訂這個是不是比較容易"},{"start":457.04,"end":463.491,"text":"委員您提出這樣的一個要求那涉及到成本效益分析是不是容許我們可以三個月內提出書面報告"},{"start":465.102,"end":486.253,"text":"因為其實一個月後我們內閣就要改組了啦我希望比較有即時性啦我當然希望說為了財政部呢您繼續領導這個你就可以用到這個書面報告不然也算是做一個沉積讓後繼的人瞭解我們的要求一個月可不可以這個我們盡力的盡力做好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝署長"},{"start":493.992,"end":494.154,"text":"賴慧卿"}]}}}}