{"id":151082,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151082","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0ed980f9453c0cd3bb4a895f5f60d28b50f8ba9b0039caa7a66869bf68ab9a87a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"09:17:56 - 09:28:47","影片長度":"00:10:51","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標」，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":651,"end_time":"2024-04-15T09:28:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T09:17:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":78,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（9時17分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：沈委員早。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。今天時間比較趕，所以我就直接切入主題，今天最主要是想要問對於外交人員的騷擾，因為之前發生蕭美琴準副總統的事件。不過前面我想先問一下與這次震災比較有關的事情，因為我們看到很多外國人其實都想要捐款到臺灣，目前來講，外交部有沒有整理讓國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊？"],["吳部長釗燮：有，我們有在做整理。另外就是衛福部已經開設捐款帳號，也透過我們的外館，讓各界知道想要捐助的可以透過衛福部的這個帳號。但有公開宣布比較大筆的，包括日本、韓國、泰國以及立陶宛等國家，這些我們都有做整理。除了捐款之外，其他國家有說要提供協助的，我們也有做整理。另外還有表達哀悼或者是表達支持的，我們也有做整理。從這件事情也可以看到當臺灣發生事情的時候，國際協助的能量或者是國際支持的能量是很豐沛的，臺灣可以很驕傲的跟我們自己說，臺灣是受到國際的支持。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝部長，像右邊這個圖，其實在國外也有很多人會問，因為有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款，募款之後再跟臺灣對接，我看起來這個應該是紅十字會。總之，其實有很多這種便利商店的募款，目前對接的狀況臺灣有辦法掌握嗎？其實有很多都是這種民間團體，這是第一個。","第二個就是我寫在上面的，很多人會反映說他們想要用虛擬貨幣捐款，這是一種比較新式的方法，虛擬貨幣其實也有它好追蹤的一些好處。也就是說，以後我們對於這種有可能用虛擬貨幣的捐款，有沒有什麼研擬的方向呢？"],["吳部長釗燮：第一個，有關於在國際上面有一些NGO或是有一些民間團體，或者是自行發動要捐獻的部分，我們都會提供衛福部的管道，所以絕大部分應該都是流向衛福部設立的震災專戶。這個震災專戶透過我們的外館，或者是透過外交部本身對外面的說明，衛福部震災的專戶應該是受到大家重視的，如果要捐款的話，透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的災民，另外，如果是直接捐助，衛福部的專款專戶都會有紀錄；如果要跟外交部表達，我們外交部也會另外做紀錄。有關於虛擬貨幣的部分，我們倒是沒有討論，不過委員提到虛擬貨幣可以成為捐款的方式，這種多元化的捐款方式或許對捐款會有幫助。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，謝謝。我就切入今天重要的主題，就是準副總統在布拉格所遇到的狀況。前些年以來，不管是蔡總統去發生了抗議事件、中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會等情事屢見不鮮，所以今天有兩件事情，第一個，我們對於外交人員目前的訓練，我認為這種訓練可以分兩個層面，第一個層面當然是人身安全，就是基本的防身，另外一個就是資訊的安全，因為我看到暗網上面有很多洩漏的資料，很多時候都去打外館，所以外館資訊安全的訓練目前的狀況如何？以及現在我們的資訊安全、人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度，但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本，所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的方案？不然的話，他們這樣一直做，我們也不知道該怎麼防範，不知道這方面有沒有什麼研議的方案？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員的垂詢。第一件事情就是有關於人身的安全，或者有我們有訪賓到其他國家訪問，我們外交部的責任當然是有，我們必須去偵察可能對訪賓有人身安全妨礙的資訊，交由其他的單位，包括當地的執法單位或者國內協助維安的單位，讓他們瞭解、掌握、面對相關的情勢。","另外，有關於資訊安全這方面，我想委員是專家，我們知道外交部也是被駭客攻擊的重點單位，之前曾經有相關的攻擊紀錄，每一次有這些情況發生的時候，我們外交部都做很多討論，希望能夠強化我們的資安。我們也討論過有幾項工作必須做，以防堵可能的漏洞根源，從過去這段時間努力的結果看起來，我們受到駭客攻擊或者被竊取相關機密資訊的情況有大幅的改善。"],["沈委員伯洋：好。我的建議是，目前暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的資料的確還存在，所以可能針對這個部分做重點的加強，這是目前資訊安全訓練滿重要的地方。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：下一個問題是，上述是屬於直接的騷擾，譬如人身的騷擾、駭客的攻擊，另外一種是屬於比較懷柔的、接觸型的。之前我們在講退輔會的時候，我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽投降協議書，他們是先透過接觸退休的將領之後，再接觸現役的軍人，外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況，就是它先接觸退休的外交人員，然後再接觸現役的外交人員？","以前我遇到一個狀況，這是一個小故事，就是像我們的退休外交人員可能透過新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做詢問，在詢問的過程當中，對方就詢問他們可否寫一些台積電等等相關的報告，寫完報告之後就直接給現金，這個現金還是透過這個人在中國做臺商的國中同學交付給他，做完之後，下一次對方就要求他寫外交部的八卦，問他以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞，如果有的話，給的錢再加倍。所以它其實都是透過這種退休人員的方式，再去接觸現役人員，去年因為大量地執法，我們可以知道目前共諜案幾乎所有都是透過退休的將領完成。現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制，像退輔會有做一個勸說機制等等，目前外交部的管制或者盤點有可能被中國接觸的狀況，不知道現在進行得如何？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員對這件事情的垂詢。退休的外交人員只要涉密，我們都有涉密的管制，並依照國家安全保護法處理，目前都非常有成效地在處理。另外，委員剛剛提到透過個人的關係、個人的接觸等等，這個比較像是接觸現任的外交人員，的確我們有看到這些狀況，也透過內部的機制提醒大家要注意。就目前我們所掌握的，雖然有看到這些狀況，但是沒有因為這些狀況使我們外交部受到相關的干擾或者造成影響。"],["沈委員伯洋：剛剛有提到情報工作法，有時候像中國是在探詢重要的情報或重要的國家機密，國家機密可以受到法律的保護，對於洩密者一定會有違反的罰則，但中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦、隱私比較多，或者問某個人員私底下是不是常常到酒店等等之類的，所以它會蒐集很多隱私及八卦。以中國這個做法來講，它把隱私及八卦蒐集好之後，甚至可能10年之後才打出來。所以現在比較麻煩的是有一些我們用情報工作法大概可以處理，但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的，很難用這個方式處理，不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的方案研擬出來？因為畢竟目前退輔會自己也沒有太多的方式，只能從譬如退休金來下手，但是下手了之後，這些人畢竟已經違反了相關的情報工作法等等之類的，還是沒有辦法直接接觸到隱私的洩漏該怎麼處理的狀況。所以我提出簡單的建議，就是可能在接下來幾個月我們或許應該要防範，畢竟在520之前他們應該有很多種手段。","接下來非常、非常快速地問一下，我以為今天時間會夠用。上一次部長沒有來的時候，我跟次長在討論我們在做外交，有分政府、國會的部分，中間智庫學界及公民組織，以及最後的社會大眾。現在社會大眾的部分我們很難去做，因為中國用TikTok做了非常多社會大眾的部分，所以這已經算是我們的弱項，當時次長有提到針對公民組織、智庫、學界的部分應該要做更多。現在面臨一個狀況，就是我們長期地跟各國的智庫交往，這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情，如果他們能直接在臺灣設點一定更好，但現在INGO在臺灣設點的狀況，不管是他們拿工作簽證、開帳戶、設公司，其實都遇到滿多的困難。所以我想問部長INGO在臺灣落地這件事情，畢竟他們對我們的外交會有很大的幫助，因為時間因素，我可能先給這個建議，下次再繼續討論這個問題。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，我也簡單回答一下，有關於INGO來臺灣落點這件事情，剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的狀況，到底要走什麼樣的路，我們也碰過一些摸索的過程，但是這條路已經完成了之後，我們知道路徑應該怎樣走最好，所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到很多國外的機構、智庫等等INGO已經在臺灣落地，而且也運作得非常良好。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-12","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","羅美玲","王定宇","陳冠廷","洪申翰","林憶君","賴士葆","黃國昌","王鴻薇","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","張啓楷","徐巧芯","陳永康","黃仁"],"page_start":73,"meetingDate":["2024-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「我國國際合作發展具體成效暨未來目標」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"151082","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151082","tool":"pyannote","id":"151082-pyannote"},"job_id":"n5eePPn1UrTK4Vuz","queued_at":"2024-06-01 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0.94}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 280.783, \"end\": 281.123, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 281.123, \"end\": 281.643, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 281.643, \"end\": 281.823, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 281.823, \"end\": 281.943, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 281.943, \"end\": 282.503, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 282.503, \"end\": 282.883, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 282.883, \"end\": 282.983, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 282.983, \"end\": 283.003, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}]}, {\"start\": 285.044, \"end\": 304.932, \"text\": \"協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 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00:01:20,721\n韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量\n\n5\n00:01:20,981 --> 00:01:29,748\n謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為它其實\n\n6\n00:01:50,885 --> 00:01:51,145\n沈伯洋議員\n\n7\n00:02:10,170 --> 00:02:27,700\n第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務\n\n8\n00:02:29,801 --> 00:02:52,635\n那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話\n\n9\n00:02:53,456 --> 00:02:53,476\n好,謝謝\n\n10\n00:03:23,419 --> 00:03:36,094\n那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的準副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮\n\n11\n00:03:39,398 --> 00:03:55,411\n所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管\n\n12\n00:03:55,931 --> 00:04:15,408\n打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案\n\n13\n00:04:16,415 --> 00:04:43,003\n非常謝謝委員的吹詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種\n\n14\n00:04:45,044 --> 00:05:04,932\n協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄\n\n15\n00:05:08,293 --> 00:05:34,229\n每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善\n\n16\n00:05:35,409 --> 00:06:03,622\n那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書\n\n17\n00:06:04,502 --> 00:06:31,908\n他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告\n\n18\n00:06:33,028 --> 00:06:58,922\n寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一憲議那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道\n\n19\n00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:18,702\n目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何\n\n20\n00:07:19,422 --> 00:07:48,345\n非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況\n\n21\n00:07:49,065 --> 00:08:04,101\n也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響\n\n22\n00:08:05,395 --> 00:08:21,660\n因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多\n\n23\n00:08:21,980 --> 00:08:22,060\n沈伯洋\n\n24\n00:08:37,436 --> 00:09:01,292\n現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用簡報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了\n\n25\n00:09:02,133 --> 00:09:02,293\n沈伯洋\n\n26\n00:09:17,910 --> 00:09:18,290\n主席\n\n27\n00:09:48,050 --> 00:10:14,903\n那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助\n\n28\n00:10:15,643 --> 00:10:37,755\n因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路已經完成了之後我們知道那個路徑應該是怎樣走最好\n\n29\n00:10:38,215 --> 00:10:48,264\n那所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到就很多的這些國外的機構智庫等等的這些Ingo已經在臺灣落地而且運作的非常良好謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n471\t1275\t謝謝主席 那有請部長 謝謝請部長\n8621\t35248\t沈委員早部長好那這個時間今天也比較趕所以我就直接切入主題那今天最主要呢是想要問這個對外交人員的騷擾因為之前發生這一個蕭美琴準副總統的這個事件不過前面我想先問一下一個跟這個這是正在比較有關的事情就是因為看到很多外國人呢他們其實都是想要捐款到台灣那目前來講外交部有沒有整理這方面的讓其實國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊\n37498\t52238\t有 我們有在做整理那另外就是我們衛福部已經開設那個捐款帳號那也透過我們的外管讓各界說想要捐助的可以透過那個衛福部的這個帳號但是有比較大筆的有公開宣布比較大筆的那包括日本\n54380\t80721\t韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量\n80981\t89748\t謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為它其實\n110885\t111145\t沈伯洋議員\n130170\t147700\t第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務\n149801\t172635\t那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話\n173456\t173476\t好,謝謝\n203419\t216094\t那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的準副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮\n219398\t235411\t所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管\n235931\t255408\t打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案\n256415\t283003\t非常謝謝委員的吹詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種\n285044\t304932\t協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄\n308293\t334229\t每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善\n335409\t363622\t那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書\n364502\t391908\t他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告\n393028\t418922\t寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一憲議那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道\n419502\t438702\t目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何\n439422\t468345\t非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況\n469065\t484101\t也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響\n485395\t501660\t因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多\n501980\t502060\t沈伯洋\n517436\t541292\t現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用簡報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了\n542133\t542293\t沈伯洋\n557910\t558290\t主席\n588050\t614903\t那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助\n615643\t637755\t因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路已經完成了之後我們知道那個路徑應該是怎樣走最好\n638215\t648264\t那所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到就很多的這些國外的機構智庫等等的這些Ingo已經在臺灣落地而且運作的非常良好謝謝委員好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那有請部長 謝謝請部長\n沈委員早部長好那這個時間今天也比較趕所以我就直接切入主題那今天最主要呢是想要問這個對外交人員的騷擾因為之前發生這一個蕭美琴準副總統的這個事件不過前面我想先問一下一個跟這個這是正在比較有關的事情就是因為看到很多外國人呢他們其實都是想要捐款到台灣那目前來講外交部有沒有整理這方面的讓其實國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊\n有 我們有在做整理那另外就是我們衛福部已經開設那個捐款帳號那也透過我們的外管讓各界說想要捐助的可以透過那個衛福部的這個帳號但是有比較大筆的有公開宣布比較大筆的那包括日本\n韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量\n謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為它其實\n沈伯洋議員\n第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務\n那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話\n好,謝謝\n那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的準副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮\n所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管\n打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案\n非常謝謝委員的吹詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種\n協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄\n每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善\n那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書\n他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告\n寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一憲議那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道\n目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何\n非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況\n也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響\n因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多\n沈伯洋\n現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用簡報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了\n沈伯洋\n主席\n那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助\n因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路已經完成了之後我們知道那個路徑應該是怎樣走最好\n那所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到就很多的這些國外的機構智庫等等的這些Ingo已經在臺灣落地而且運作的非常良好謝謝委員好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.471 --> 00:01.275\n謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝請部長\n\n00:08.621 --> 00:35.248\n沈委員早部長好那這個時間今天也比較趕所以我就直接切入主題那今天最主要呢是想要問這個對外交人員的騷擾因為之前發生這一個蕭美琴準副總統的這個事件不過前面我想先問一下一個跟這個這是正在比較有關的事情就是因為看到很多外國人呢他們其實都是想要捐款到台灣那目前來講外交部有沒有整理這方面的讓其實國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊\n\n00:37.498 --> 00:52.238\n有我們有在做整理那另外就是我們衛福部已經開設那個捐款帳號那也透過我們的外管讓各界說想要捐助的可以透過那個衛福部的這個帳號但是有比較大筆的有公開宣布比較大筆的那包括日本\n\n00:54.380 --> 01:20.721\n韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量\n\n01:20.981 --> 01:29.748\n謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為它其實\n\n01:50.885 --> 01:51.145\n沈伯洋議員\n\n02:10.170 --> 02:27.700\n第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務\n\n02:29.801 --> 02:52.635\n那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話\n\n02:53.456 --> 02:53.476\n好,謝謝\n\n03:23.419 --> 03:36.094\n那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的準副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮\n\n03:39.398 --> 03:55.411\n所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管\n\n03:55.931 --> 04:15.408\n打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案\n\n04:16.415 --> 04:43.003\n非常謝謝委員的吹詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種\n\n04:45.044 --> 05:04.932\n協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄\n\n05:08.293 --> 05:34.229\n每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善\n\n05:35.409 --> 06:03.622\n那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書\n\n06:04.502 --> 06:31.908\n他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告\n\n06:33.028 --> 06:58.922\n寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一憲議那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道\n\n06:59.502 --> 07:18.702\n目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何\n\n07:19.422 --> 07:48.345\n非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況\n\n07:49.065 --> 08:04.101\n也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響\n\n08:05.395 --> 08:21.660\n因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多\n\n08:21.980 --> 08:22.060\n沈伯洋\n\n08:37.436 --> 09:01.292\n現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用簡報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了\n\n09:02.133 --> 09:02.293\n沈伯洋\n\n09:17.910 --> 09:18.290\n主席\n\n09:48.050 --> 10:14.903\n那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助\n\n10:15.643 --> 10:37.755\n因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路已經完成了之後我們知道那個路徑應該是怎樣走最好\n\n10:38.215 --> 10:48.264\n那所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到就很多的這些國外的機構智庫等等的這些Ingo已經在臺灣落地而且運作的非常良好謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.471,"end":1.275,"text":"謝謝主席 那有請部長 謝謝請部長"},{"start":8.621,"end":35.248,"text":"沈委員早部長好那這個時間今天也比較趕所以我就直接切入主題那今天最主要呢是想要問這個對外交人員的騷擾因為之前發生這一個蕭美琴準副總統的這個事件不過前面我想先問一下一個跟這個這是正在比較有關的事情就是因為看到很多外國人呢他們其實都是想要捐款到台灣那目前來講外交部有沒有整理這方面的讓其實國外的捐款可以進來的這些資訊"},{"start":37.498,"end":52.238,"text":"有 我們有在做整理那另外就是我們衛福部已經開設那個捐款帳號那也透過我們的外管讓各界說想要捐助的可以透過那個衛福部的這個帳號但是有比較大筆的有公開宣布比較大筆的那包括日本"},{"start":54.38,"end":80.721,"text":"韓國以及泰國和立陶宛等等的這些國家那這些我們都有做整理那除了那個捐款之外其他國家有說要提供那個協助的那我們也有做整理那另外還有表達哀悼或是表達支持的我們也有做整理那其實可以那個從這件事情也可以看到就是說我們台灣發生事情的時候國際的這個協助的能量"},{"start":80.981,"end":89.748,"text":"謝謝部長那像右邊這個圖就是說其實在國外也很多人會問說因為他們有些是他們當地的組織發起一些募款然後募款再跟台灣做對接那這一個我看起來應該到最後是建銀紅十字會那總之呢其實有很多這種便利商店的募款那目前對接的這種狀況我們台灣有辦法掌握嗎因為它其實"},{"start":110.885,"end":111.145,"text":"沈伯洋議員"},{"start":130.17,"end":147.7,"text":"第一個有關於在國際上面就是有一些NGO或者是有一些民間團體或者是自行發動的這個要捐獻的這個部分我們都會提供那個衛福部的這個管道所以應該大部分絕大部分都是流向那個我們衛福部設立的這個震災的這個專務"},{"start":149.801,"end":172.635,"text":"那這個正宅的專戶透過我們的那個外管或者是透過我們對外面來說明的外交部本身對外面說明的那我們衛福部的這個正宅的這個專款專戶應該是受到大家的這個重視那如果說要捐款的話透過這個是最直接可以協助我們的宅民那另外如果說直接去捐助的話"},{"start":173.456,"end":173.476,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":203.419,"end":216.094,"text":"那我就切入今天的這個比較重要的一個主題就是這個我們的準副總統在布拉格所遇到的一個狀況那前些年以來不管是這一個好像我們蔡總統去發生了抗議事件然後這個在中國去鬧場我們的國慶酒會這個是屢見不鮮"},{"start":219.398,"end":235.411,"text":"所以這邊有兩件事情就是說第一個就是我們對於這些外交人員目前的訓練那訓練我講的可以分兩個層面第一個層面當然是人身安全就是他們基本的一些防身那另外就是資訊的安全因為我看暗網上面很多洩漏的資料很多時候他去打這個所謂的外管"},{"start":235.931,"end":255.408,"text":"打外管這種資訊安全的訓練現在目前的狀況如何以及現在假使我們今天資訊安全人身安全的訓練假設都已經做到某一個程度但是有時候這個不一定有升高對方的成本所以有沒有什麼可以去升高對方成本的一個方案那不然的話他們其實這樣一直做我們也不知道該怎麼防範不知道這方面有沒有一些嚴厲的方案"},{"start":256.415,"end":283.003,"text":"非常謝謝委員的吹詢第一件事情就是有關於那個人身的安全或者是說如果說我們有訪兵到其他國家去訪問的話那我們外交部的這個責任當然是有就是必須要去偵查可能對我們訪兵有這種人身安全妨礙的這種可能的資訊那交由其他的單位either是那個當地的執法單位或者是說那個我們國內的這種"},{"start":285.044,"end":304.932,"text":"協助維安的這些單位讓他們去了解讓他們去掌握讓他們去面對這些相關的這個情勢那另外有關於那個資訊安全這方面我想那個委員是專家那我們知道那個外交部這邊也是一個被駭客攻擊的一個重點的這個單位那之前曾經有這種相關的這種攻擊的這個記錄"},{"start":308.293,"end":334.229,"text":"每一次有這些情況發生的時候我們外交部都做很多的這些討論希望能夠強化我們的這個治安那我們也討論過有幾項的這些工作我們必須要去做去防堵所有可能的這些漏洞的這些根源那在過去這段時間我們的努力的結果看起來那個這個受到駭客攻擊或者是說被竊取我們相關的這些機密資訊的那個情況是有大幅的改善"},{"start":335.409,"end":363.622,"text":"那我因為我是建議就是說像目前的確因為暗網上面外交人員有一些被打的一個資料他的確還存在嘛所以就是可能針對這個部分做重點的加強可能是現在資訊安全訓練蠻重要的一個地方但下一個問題就是說因為這個是屬於直接的一些騷擾比如說是人身的騷擾啊駭客的攻擊啊但另外一種就是他屬於是比較懷柔的接觸型的因為之前我們在講這個退伏會的時候我們都知道其實軍人現在很多人簽這個投降協議書"},{"start":364.502,"end":391.908,"text":"他是先透過這些退休的將領接觸他們之後再接觸現役的軍人那在外交人員會不會也有這樣的狀況就是他去接觸的是退休的外交人員然後再接觸現役的外交人員那以前我有遇到一個狀況這是一個小故事就是說像我們的退休外交人員他們可能透過什麼新加坡、馬來西亞的智庫來做這個詢問然後詢問的過程當中就是說你是不是可以幫我寫一些跟台積電等等相關的報告"},{"start":393.028,"end":418.922,"text":"寫完報告之後他就直接給現金這個現金還是透過這一個人的什麼國中同學然後在那邊在中國做台商然後交付給他那他這個做完之後再下一次他就跟他講說那你下一篇文章幫我寫有沒有外交部的八卦你以前在內部的時候有沒有聽說過誰的醜聞如果有的話這個錢再給加倍所以他其實都是透過這種退休的這種方式然後再去接一憲議那因為去年大量的執法我們可以知道"},{"start":419.502,"end":438.702,"text":"目前的這個共諜案很多幾乎是所有都是透過退休的這些降臨來完成那外交人員現在我們對於退休外交人員的管制或者說我們明明好像退府會有做一個勸說機制或等等的就是目前的管制或者說要盤點他們有可能被中國接觸的這個狀況不知道現在進行的如何"},{"start":439.422,"end":468.345,"text":"非常謝謝委員對這件事情的那個吹薰有關於退休的外交人員只要是涉密的話我們都有涉密的這個管制依照國家安全保護法來做處理那目前都有非常有成效的在處理那另外委員剛剛有提到說那個透過這種個人的關係個人的這個接觸等等那這個比較像是接觸現任的這個外交的人員那的確我們有看到這些狀況那看到這些狀況"},{"start":469.065,"end":484.101,"text":"也透過我們內部的機制提醒大家要注意那目前我們所掌握的就是說雖然說有看到這些狀況但是沒有因為這些狀況我們外交部受到一些這種相關的這個干擾或者是說造成影響"},{"start":485.395,"end":501.66,"text":"因為有時候像中國他們是在探尋重要的情報或者重要的國家機密那國家機密可以受到法律的保護他如果今天洩密的話一定會有一些違反的法則嘛但因為中國比較喜歡的做法反而都是問八卦比較多或者問隱私比較多"},{"start":501.98,"end":502.06,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":517.436,"end":541.292,"text":"現在比較麻煩的事情是說有一些我們用簡報工作法大概是可以處理的但這種情資、八卦、隱私等等之類的很難用這個方式來做處理所以不知道以後有沒有可能有一些相關的一些方案能夠被研擬出來因為畢竟目前來講退府會是他們自己也沒有太多的方式他只能從譬如說退休金來下手但他下手的時候畢竟還是這些人已經違反了"},{"start":542.133,"end":542.293,"text":"沈伯洋"},{"start":557.91,"end":558.29,"text":"主席"},{"start":588.05,"end":614.903,"text":"那現在面臨一個狀況就是如我們長期的跟各國的智庫交往這是外交部一直以來都有做的事情但現在是如果他們能夠直接在台灣設點那一定更好嘛但現在INGO在台灣設點的一個狀況其實有時候不管是他們要拿工作簽證啊或者說他們要開賬戶啊設公司啊其實都遇到蠻多的困難所以之後呢可能想要問部長就是就這一塊在INGO要在台灣落地這件事情因為畢竟它對我們的外交會有很大的幫助"},{"start":615.643,"end":637.755,"text":"因為時間因素我可能先給這個建議我們下次再繼續討論這個問題我也簡單回答一下就是說有關於ING由來台灣落點這件事情剛開始的時候的確是有一些摸索的這個狀況那到底要走什麼樣的這個路那我們也碰過一些摸索的這個過程但是這個路已經完成了之後我們知道那個路徑應該是怎樣走最好"},{"start":638.215,"end":648.264,"text":"那所以最近這段時間委員可能也看到就很多的這些國外的機構智庫等等的這些Ingo已經在臺灣落地而且運作的非常良好謝謝委員好謝謝"}]}}}}