{"id":151086,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151086","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e99cbd9a47b2b8cfcdfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a6328f139af069e70d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:23:27 - 09:36:52","影片長度":"00:13:25","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":805,"end_time":"2024-04-15T09:36:52+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T09:23:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":301,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時23分）麻煩衛福部部長，還有內政部警政署防治組的斯副組長、數位發展部資源管理司的副司長曾文方。"],["主席：好，請。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長好，還有兩位組長。部長，這次透過黃子佼的事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方，當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常清楚，本來有提出德國跟奧地利，不知道為什麼我們最後反而是選擇刑度最輕的日本作為參考，而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經破獲了類似韓國的N號房，可是112年定這個法竟然會選擇刑度最輕的！我想大家都會有一些共識，尤其是這次的黃子佼事件，因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5,418位會員，我相信他們大概沒在怕的啦，為什麼？反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身，如果從法來看的話，只要3到30萬就可以脫身，所以上週我們大概也跟其他委員有共識未來要提高刑度。","不過我今天最大的疑問不是在於刑度，未來三六、三八、三九的刑度勢必要提高，我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎？因為我不認為是這樣。上週在質詢後，衛福部立刻就請數發部把某個論壇封網了，根據執行單位的同仁透露，收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網，可是這個網站10年了，更特別的是110年12月，因為法院請它停止解析1個月，它又再度在臺灣沸沸揚揚地持續在賣，所以看起來是可以做，為什麼做不到？我今天要提醒，不是只有這個論壇有問題，因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋，仍然有非常多疑似違反性影像的部分。剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後，非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面，很容易透過關鍵字就搜尋到，所以有很多受害人，再度引起他情緒上的波盪。","我覺得這個非常嚴重，因此請問部長，衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎？外流的問題，其他的網站現在都有處理嗎？甚至有些已經死灰復燃的，你們知道嗎？還是要等受害者來跟你報告？"],["薛部長瑞元：以目前的機制來講，受害人申訴是主要的來源，這個我必須承認，但是普遍去搜尋網路上面到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的網站，我相信技術上應該可行，不過我們需要法律授權，因為會牽涉到有一點言論自由保障的問題。"],["林委員月琴：是，如果要法律授權的話，遲遲也都沒有提出來。從法定後到今年為止，你採取被動申訴，所以每年大概只有9件案子，緩不濟急，為什麼？第一個，被害人可能礙於很多原因，他不會來跟你申訴。加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴？他就是希望要下載這些影片，怎麼可能向你申訴呢？一年才處理9件，而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件，通知業者處理的是767件，完成移除的665件，沒有錯，很好啊！感覺是移除的成功率為86.7%，看起來很高，可是這些影片不斷、不斷地複製，最重要的還是這個論壇，但一直都沒有再去處理它。"],["薛部長瑞元：我剛剛跟陳昭姿委員回答的時候也說到，其實這種犯罪有兩種類型，一種就是被害人來檢舉，這個影片可能在任何的地方、網路上的任何地方，所以我們針對那個影片要下架，這是一種類型。第二種類型，就像剛剛委員所提到這一個……"],["林委員月琴：這是要止血，你知道嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對……"],["林委員月琴：否則的話，以你們的時間，18天到5個月的期限都有可能，這9件拖這麼久的話，基本上這些受害的影像都在網路上一直被流傳。"],["薛部長瑞元：是，所以前面那個下架移除的部分，我們的執行成功率是86.7%，但是封網的只有9件，原因就在於我們沒有辦法主動搜尋，我們沒有一個單位有辦法整天都在上網……"],["林委員月琴：假設法不夠，那就應該修法，或者是……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["林委員月琴：有沒有牽扯到經費的問題，否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題？","我們來看一個很大的問題，事實上這是衛福部提供給我們的流程，我想問部長，你看這個流程有什麼問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然時間程序是比較冗長……"],["林委員月琴：難怪會走18天或到5個月的時程。"],["薛部長瑞元：所以現在這一點，也就是因為我們從母法到制定施行細則，施行細則五至七條的部分，這個程序是冗長的。"],["林委員月琴：告訴部長我最不能接受的兩件事情，第一個，目前影像中心處理的案源，只是消極被動地接受檢舉跟申訴，我剛剛提過，看影片、買影片的人不會來跟你報告。另外一方面，受害者可能基於自卑或被威脅，甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道，因為有的是廁所偷拍，你的案源如果來自其本身，這樣是做做樣子，根本沒有達到問題的核心。第二個，近期協助封網，是數發部發布，就是委託的台灣網路資訊中心，看了流程我整個傻眼，竟然是要走到最後一個流程才會有它，否則的話不會，那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間，這個流程根本就很荒謬！發文立即就可以封網，這個冗長的官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話！上週部長也霸氣地說當天就可以斷網，那請問之前為什麼不做，到底這是流程的問題還是人的問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，那個是流程問題，就是第一種類型，我們訂了一個施行細則，它的流程就是這麼長……"],["林委員月琴：所以要求是不是……"],["薛部長瑞元：上個禮拜是我跳過那個施行細則，其實這在法律上有一些風險。"],["林委員月琴：可是它本來在110年就停止解析，如果一發現，因為這個論壇非常特別的是它原創性非常高，其他的還不至於這樣，可是為什麼沒有這麼積極的動作？關於這樣的流程，是不是應該要把台灣網路資訊中心移到更前面？所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做，第一個，衛福部請跟站在你旁邊的內政部警政署立即建立訊息交換平臺，緊急報案被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理，那我要求性影像中心要納入緊急報案的案件。第二個，依照兒少性剝削條例第八條第一項或性侵害防治法第十三條，只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情事的時候就先限制跟移除，所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正，一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話，例如是未成年的，就立刻通知數發部或者通傳會處理。部長，這個可以做得到嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這要請數發部這邊表示一下意見。"],["林委員月琴：可是數發部也是說要等你們，所以你們的速度有多快，數發部才能有多快。"],["曾副司長文方：就技術面來講，我們接到正式函文以後就會協調TWNIC去處理。但是剛剛誠如委員說的，在程序面上，這個網站的內容是否違法，可能還是要主管機關來……"],["林委員月琴：所以部長是不是要趕快止血？因為我這幾天都收到受害人……他們又看到影片在上傳的時候，對他們來講又情緒崩潰，所以速度請快一點。","再來，這個到底是誰？根據第八條，網路內容防護機構指的是誰，不知道？如果是iWIN，那我告訴你，iWIN叫做行政小幫手，它有5個婆婆，有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部，到底它先做誰的事情？兒少權法第四十六條授權它，它只做分級教育訓練、自律，然後它只通知平臺移除，可是這個法條是寫它可以去哦，我不知道當初為什麼衛福部……這邊會看到要來做，這是我的第一個疑問。第二個，如果媽媽叫4個兄弟去掃地，大家都各自看誰要去掃地，而你請了4個部會去做的時候，到底誰去做？都可以去，但可能通通都沒有去做，不是嗎？大家如果分工不明的話，人人可管，就人人不管，甚至也聽聽警員的一些心聲，因為目前看到經費不足、他們的人力不足，我覺得內政部也要做一些檢討，知道他們的狀態。在這邊期待要明定專責單位，就像剛剛部長說的，如果法授權的話，那有專責單位去海巡，我覺得第一時間可以做到，所以成立跨部會的性犯罪防治中心。我的這四項是期待衛福部，還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正送過來。以上，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個流程可能沒有辦法一個月，要研議，這裡面……"],["林委員月琴：我覺得只是把台灣網路資訊中心提到前面去，因為你把它放到最後，事實上是不可行的。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個事情沒有那麼簡單，跟委員報告，因為涉及到研判，有公權力的問題。"],["林委員月琴：我請問一下部長，你要怎麼止血？否則這個影像不斷在流傳的時候，多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性。"],["薛部長瑞元：對於網站的部分，我們可以先來處理，但最後還是需要法律授權給我們，不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險。"],["林委員月琴：法律不是沒有授權給你們啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有、沒有……"],["林委員月琴：法律就是說，你只要知道有犯罪情事的話，就可以去做處理。"],["薛部長瑞元：主動搜尋是指我們還不知道有犯罪就要去巡網路了。"],["林委員月琴：可是現在明明都知道有這個網站，你們也沒去做啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：那是另外一回事。我們現在已經可以做了，封網這件事情我們可以做了，但是……"],["林委員月琴：那就是針對目前網路上已經有的，應該要馬上去做！"],["薛部長瑞元：但是移除性影像這些下架的事情，那是各個不同的，那不是封網的問題，而是個別的影像要讓它抓下來……"],["林委員月琴：我是說目前有好幾個已經存在的，那是不是優先做處理？我手頭上就有好幾個了！"],["薛部長瑞元：我手頭上沒有啊！因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊！我還是要靠人家來檢舉啊！"],["林委員月琴：我想網民也都會告訴你到底有沒有啦！否則你就要推動去做檢舉啊！否則目前我們看不到你更積極的作為是什麼！"],["薛部長瑞元：不是啦！我不知道，要有人跟我做檢舉啊！這不是又回到原來的問題嗎？"],["林委員月琴：可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點。"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊！所以我就說，你要讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛！那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣，它就是來接受我們的委託，每天在網站上面繞嘛！它去分析流量，那個可以做……"],["林委員月琴：好，部長，你要講要多久的時間！現在我們的爭執點應該是在時間，可是我覺得止血真的很重要。"],["主席：好，時間關係……"],["薛部長瑞元：時間的部分我們再研議一下。"],["主席：會後請委員再跟部長溝通，因為下一個委員還要質詢。好，謝謝。","接下來請陳菁徽委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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{\"start\": 124.62, \"end\": 151.831, \"text\": \"更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 124.62, \"end\": 124.92, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 124.92, \"end\": 125.14, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 125.14, \"end\": 125.26, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 125.26, \"end\": 125.38, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 125.38, \"end\": 126.201, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 126.201, \"end\": 126.401, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 126.401, \"end\": 126.921, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 126.921, \"end\": 127.561, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 127.561, \"end\": 128.442, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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\"以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 185.751, \"end\": 186.031, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 186.031, \"end\": 186.351, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 186.351, \"end\": 186.652, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 186.652, \"end\": 188.013, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 188.013, \"end\": 188.873, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 188.873, \"end\": 189.173, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 189.173, \"end\": 189.333, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 189.333, \"end\": 189.494, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 189.494, \"end\": 189.714, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 189.714, \"end\": 189.874, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 189.874, \"end\": 190.134, 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\"start\": 796.819, \"end\": 797.039, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 797.039, \"end\": 797.139, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 797.139, \"end\": 797.159, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 797.159, \"end\": 797.259, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 797.259, \"end\": 797.279, \"score\": 0.011}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,101 --> 00:00:19,669\n麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防治組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請部長好還有兩位組長\n\n2\n00:00:33,097 --> 00:00:58,724\n部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經\n\n3\n00:00:59,804 --> 00:01:15,769\n破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員\n\n4\n00:01:20,376 --> 00:01:35,474\n我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度\n\n5\n00:01:36,004 --> 00:02:02,659\n不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年\n\n6\n00:02:04,620 --> 00:02:31,831\n更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後\n\n7\n00:02:34,718 --> 00:02:46,415\n非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面很容易關鍵字就搜尋到所以有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波蕩\n\n8\n00:02:47,523 --> 00:03:04,551\n所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告?\n\n9\n00:03:05,751 --> 00:03:25,664\n以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行\n\n10\n00:03:26,545 --> 00:03:52,018\n但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有點這個言論自由的保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話此次也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢\n\n11\n00:03:52,742 --> 00:04:13,369\n他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件通知業者處理的是767件\n\n12\n00:04:15,209 --> 00:04:31,225\n完成移除的665件對沒有錯很好啊感覺成功移除的成功率是86.7%看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製最重要的還是這個論壇那可是一直都沒有再去處理它\n\n13\n00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:57,357\n這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到的部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個\n\n14\n00:05:00,218 --> 00:05:21,335\n5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋\n\n15\n00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:46,687\n我沒有辦法說我沒有一個單位有辦法說這樣整天都是在打架那你就可以去如果假設法不夠那就應該修法或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題因為我們來看一個很大的問題就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程所以我想問一下部長你如果看這流程有什麼問題\n\n16\n00:05:48,449 --> 00:06:16,741\n這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過\n\n17\n00:06:17,641 --> 00:06:46,870\n看影片買影片的人他不會來跟你報告那另外一方面受害者可能基於我們自卑或是他被威脅甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道因為有的是廁所偷拍你的案員如果來自是本身那這樣子是做做樣子然後根本沒有打到問題的核心第二個是近期協助在蜂王組織是速發布來發布的就是委託的那個臺灣網路資訊中心看了流程我整個是傻眼的\n\n18\n00:06:47,310 --> 00:07:13,568\n竟然他是要走到最後一個流程才會有他否則的話不會那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題\n\n19\n00:07:15,069 --> 00:07:29,421\n對,那個是流程問題,就是第一種類型。我們的,訂了一個那個施行細則,它的流程就是這麼修長。所以,要求是不是?上個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則,其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的。\n\n20\n00:07:49,822 --> 00:08:08,012\n臺灣網路資訊中心移到更前面所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做第一個衛福部請跟你站在你旁邊的那個內政部警政署要立即建立我們的資訊訊息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理\n\n21\n00:08:09,152 --> 00:08:32,740\n那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那\n\n22\n00:08:33,380 --> 00:08:43,840\n就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。\n\n23\n00:08:47,749 --> 00:09:09,563\n可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來\n\n24\n00:09:10,484 --> 00:09:23,393\n所以部長是不是要趕快知覺因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題\n\n25\n00:09:30,656 --> 00:09:59,475\n這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說他可以去我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到\n\n26\n00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:48,825\n也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊\n\n27\n00:10:49,724 --> 00:11:17,800\n我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把那個台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的\n\n28\n00:11:19,317 --> 00:11:34,455\n這事情沒有那麼簡單跟會員報告因為它涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性啊\n\n29\n00:11:35,335 --> 00:11:55,866\n這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路啊\n\n30\n00:11:57,488 --> 00:12:26,714\n可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題那不是,是個別的影像要讓它抓下來我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理?\n\n31\n00:12:29,175 --> 00:12:49,125\n我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊\n\n32\n00:12:50,970 --> 00:13:14,907\n可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要\n\n33\n00:13:16,018 --> 00:13:17,279\n時間關係,會後請委員再跟部長溝通,因為下一個委員會還有質詢,好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7101\t19669\t麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防治組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請部長好還有兩位組長\n33097\t58724\t部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經\n59804\t75769\t破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員\n80376\t95474\t我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度\n96004\t122659\t不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年\n124620\t151831\t更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後\n154718\t166415\t非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面很容易關鍵字就搜尋到所以有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波蕩\n167523\t184551\t所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告?\n185751\t205664\t以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行\n206545\t232018\t但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有點這個言論自由的保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話此次也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢\n232742\t253369\t他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件通知業者處理的是767件\n255209\t271225\t完成移除的665件對沒有錯很好啊感覺成功移除的成功率是86.7%看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製最重要的還是這個論壇那可是一直都沒有再去處理它\n272310\t297357\t這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到的部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個\n300218\t321335\t5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋\n323100\t346687\t我沒有辦法說我沒有一個單位有辦法說這樣整天都是在打架那你就可以去如果假設法不夠那就應該修法或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題因為我們來看一個很大的問題就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程所以我想問一下部長你如果看這流程有什麼問題\n348449\t376741\t這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過\n377641\t406870\t看影片買影片的人他不會來跟你報告那另外一方面受害者可能基於我們自卑或是他被威脅甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道因為有的是廁所偷拍你的案員如果來自是本身那這樣子是做做樣子然後根本沒有打到問題的核心第二個是近期協助在蜂王組織是速發布來發布的就是委託的那個臺灣網路資訊中心看了流程我整個是傻眼的\n407310\t433568\t竟然他是要走到最後一個流程才會有他否則的話不會那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題\n435069\t449421\t對,那個是流程問題,就是第一種類型。我們的,訂了一個那個施行細則,它的流程就是這麼修長。所以,要求是不是?上個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則,其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的。\n450282\t469002\t﹗\n469822\t488012\t臺灣網路資訊中心移到更前面所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做第一個衛福部請跟你站在你旁邊的那個內政部警政署要立即建立我們的資訊訊息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理\n489152\t512740\t那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那\n513380\t523840\t就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。\n527749\t549563\t可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來\n550484\t563393\t所以部長是不是要趕快知覺因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題\n570656\t599475\t這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說他可以去我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到\n600316\t624241\t﹗\n624520\t648825\t也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊\n649724\t677800\t我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把那個台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的\n679317\t694455\t這事情沒有那麼簡單跟會員報告因為它涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性啊\n695335\t715866\t這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路啊\n717488\t746714\t可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題那不是,是個別的影像要讓它抓下來我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理?\n749175\t769125\t我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊\n770970\t794907\t可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要\n796018\t797279\t時間關係,會後請委員再跟部長溝通,因為下一個委員會還有質詢,好謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防治組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請部長好還有兩位組長\n部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經\n破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員\n我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度\n不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年\n更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後\n非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面很容易關鍵字就搜尋到所以有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波蕩\n所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告?\n以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行\n但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有點這個言論自由的保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話此次也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢\n他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件通知業者處理的是767件\n完成移除的665件對沒有錯很好啊感覺成功移除的成功率是86.7%看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製最重要的還是這個論壇那可是一直都沒有再去處理它\n這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到的部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個\n5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋\n我沒有辦法說我沒有一個單位有辦法說這樣整天都是在打架那你就可以去如果假設法不夠那就應該修法或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題因為我們來看一個很大的問題就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程所以我想問一下部長你如果看這流程有什麼問題\n這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過\n看影片買影片的人他不會來跟你報告那另外一方面受害者可能基於我們自卑或是他被威脅甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道因為有的是廁所偷拍你的案員如果來自是本身那這樣子是做做樣子然後根本沒有打到問題的核心第二個是近期協助在蜂王組織是速發布來發布的就是委託的那個臺灣網路資訊中心看了流程我整個是傻眼的\n竟然他是要走到最後一個流程才會有他否則的話不會那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題\n對,那個是流程問題,就是第一種類型。我們的,訂了一個那個施行細則,它的流程就是這麼修長。所以,要求是不是?上個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則,其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的。\n﹗\n臺灣網路資訊中心移到更前面所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做第一個衛福部請跟你站在你旁邊的那個內政部警政署要立即建立我們的資訊訊息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理\n那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那\n就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。\n可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來\n所以部長是不是要趕快知覺因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題\n這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說他可以去我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到\n﹗\n也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊\n我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把那個台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的\n這事情沒有那麼簡單跟會員報告因為它涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性啊\n這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路啊\n可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題那不是,是個別的影像要讓它抓下來我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理?\n我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊\n可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要\n時間關係,會後請委員再跟部長溝通,因為下一個委員會還有質詢,好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.101 --> 00:19.669\n麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防治組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請部長好還有兩位組長\n\n00:33.097 --> 00:58.724\n部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經\n\n00:59.804 --> 01:15.769\n破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員\n\n01:20.376 --> 01:35.474\n我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度\n\n01:36.004 --> 02:02.659\n不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年\n\n02:04.620 --> 02:31.831\n更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後\n\n02:34.718 --> 02:46.415\n非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面很容易關鍵字就搜尋到所以有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波蕩\n\n02:47.523 --> 03:04.551\n所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告?\n\n03:05.751 --> 03:25.664\n以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行\n\n03:26.545 --> 03:52.018\n但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有點這個言論自由的保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話此次也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢\n\n03:52.742 --> 04:13.369\n他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件通知業者處理的是767件\n\n04:15.209 --> 04:31.225\n完成移除的665件對沒有錯很好啊感覺成功移除的成功率是86.7%看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製最重要的還是這個論壇那可是一直都沒有再去處理它\n\n04:32.310 --> 04:57.357\n這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到的部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個\n\n05:00.218 --> 05:21.335\n5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋\n\n05:23.100 --> 05:46.687\n我沒有辦法說我沒有一個單位有辦法說這樣整天都是在打架那你就可以去如果假設法不夠那就應該修法或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題因為我們來看一個很大的問題就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程所以我想問一下部長你如果看這流程有什麼問題\n\n05:48.449 --> 06:16.741\n這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過\n\n06:17.641 --> 06:46.870\n看影片買影片的人他不會來跟你報告那另外一方面受害者可能基於我們自卑或是他被威脅甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道因為有的是廁所偷拍你的案員如果來自是本身那這樣子是做做樣子然後根本沒有打到問題的核心第二個是近期協助在蜂王組織是速發布來發布的就是委託的那個臺灣網路資訊中心看了流程我整個是傻眼的\n\n06:47.310 --> 07:13.568\n竟然他是要走到最後一個流程才會有他否則的話不會那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題\n\n07:15.069 --> 07:29.421\n對,那個是流程問題,就是第一種類型。我們的,訂了一個那個施行細則,它的流程就是這麼修長。所以,要求是不是?上個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則,其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的。\n\n07:49.822 --> 08:08.012\n臺灣網路資訊中心移到更前面所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做第一個衛福部請跟你站在你旁邊的那個內政部警政署要立即建立我們的資訊訊息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理\n\n08:09.152 --> 08:32.740\n那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那\n\n08:33.380 --> 08:43.840\n就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。\n\n08:47.749 --> 09:09.563\n可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來\n\n09:10.484 --> 09:23.393\n所以部長是不是要趕快知覺因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題\n\n09:30.656 --> 09:59.475\n這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說他可以去我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到\n\n10:24.520 --> 10:48.825\n也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊\n\n10:49.724 --> 11:17.800\n我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把那個台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的\n\n11:19.317 --> 11:34.455\n這事情沒有那麼簡單跟會員報告因為它涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性啊\n\n11:35.335 --> 11:55.866\n這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路啊\n\n11:57.488 --> 12:26.714\n可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題那不是,是個別的影像要讓它抓下來我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理?\n\n12:29.175 --> 12:49.125\n我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊\n\n12:50.970 --> 13:14.907\n可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要\n\n13:16.018 --> 13:17.279\n時間關係,會後請委員再跟部長溝通,因為下一個委員會還有質詢,好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.101,"end":19.669,"text":"麻煩我們的衛福部部長還有我們的內政部警政署防治組的那個師傅組長還有我們的數位發展部的資源管理師的副市長曾文芳好請部長好還有兩位組長"},{"start":33.097,"end":58.724,"text":"部長大概這次透過黃子椒的這樣的一個事件我們大概知道有買方就有源源不斷的賣方那當時的立法理由事實上也講得非常的清楚就是說本來是有提出來德國跟奧地利不知道為什麼我們最後選擇是反而是清就刑度最輕的日本作為參考而且這個時間需要回溯到110年我們就已經"},{"start":59.804,"end":75.769,"text":"破獲了類似韓國的N號房可是112名訂這個法竟然會選擇我們的刑度最輕的我想大家都會有一些共識尤其是這次這個黃子嬌事件那因為剛被封的這個某論壇就高達5418位的會員"},{"start":80.376,"end":95.474,"text":"我相信他們當然沒在怕的啦為什麼反正封了之後只要負擔3到30萬的罰金就可以脫身了因為如果從法來看的話只要3到30萬就可以脫身所以上週我們當然也跟其他委員有共識也就是說未來要提高刑度"},{"start":96.004,"end":122.659,"text":"不過我今天最大的疑問不是在行度未來36、38、39行度勢必是要去提高的我要問的是國家就沒有責任了嗎因為我不認為是這樣那上週在質詢後我們的衛福部立刻請書發部就把某個論壇封網了那根據執行單位同仁透露收到公文後10分鐘就可以封網了可是這網站10年"},{"start":124.62,"end":151.831,"text":"更特別的是110年的12月因為我們的法院請他停止解析一個月他又再再度的在這邊臺灣沸沸揚揚的持續在賣所以看起來是可以做為什麼做不到所以我今天要提醒的不是只有這個論壇有問題因為我的同仁透過關鍵字搜尋仍然有非常多疑似有違反性影像那剛好這幾天因為這個論壇被揭露之後"},{"start":154.718,"end":166.415,"text":"非常多的網民們把它丟在Google裡面很容易關鍵字就搜尋到所以有很多受害人他再度的引起他情緒上的波蕩"},{"start":167.523,"end":184.551,"text":"所以我覺得這非常的嚴重所以請問一下就是部長想問的是衛福部是看新聞辦案嗎?外流的問題其他的網站現在都有處理嗎?還有甚至有些已經死灰復燃的你們知道嗎?還是要等受害者來跟你報告?"},{"start":185.751,"end":205.664,"text":"以目前的這個機制來講那受害人的一個申訴是主要的來源這我必須要承認但是說普遍的去搜尋這一個網路上面的網站到底有沒有這種涉及兒少的我相信技術上應該是可行"},{"start":206.545,"end":232.018,"text":"但是我們需要法律授權因為這個會牽涉到有點這個言論自由的保障的問題是那如果要法律授權的話此次也都沒有提出來所以看到這個從法定過後到今年為止那你被動的申訴所以每年大概只有9件的這樣的一個案子大家緩不濟急為什麼第一個被害人呢"},{"start":232.742,"end":253.369,"text":"他可能礙於很多原因他是不會來跟你申訴加害人怎麼可能來跟你申訴他就是希望他要下載這些影片怎麼可能來向你申訴呢所以我們就看到這個一年才處理9件而且衛福部的報告提到有性影像下架的受理案件大概767件通知業者處理的是767件"},{"start":255.209,"end":271.225,"text":"完成移除的665件對沒有錯很好啊感覺成功移除的成功率是86.7%看起來很高可是這些影片不斷不斷的複製最重要的還是這個論壇那可是一直都沒有再去處理它"},{"start":272.31,"end":297.357,"text":"這就是我剛剛也跟那個陳昭志委員在回答的時候說到了其實這種犯罪是有兩種類型一種就是被害人他來檢舉他這一個這一個影片可能在任何的地方網路上的任何的地方所以我們針對那個影片要下架這是一種類型第二種類型就像剛剛委員所提到的部長這是要止血你知道嗎否則的話以你們時間這個18天到5個"},{"start":300.218,"end":321.335,"text":"5個月的期限都有可能這9件拖這麼久的話基本上這些受害的影像都一直在網路上一直被流傳所以前面那個下架移除的部分的話我們的執行的成功率是86.7%但是這一個封網的就只有9件原因就在於我們沒有辦法去主動搜尋"},{"start":323.1,"end":346.687,"text":"我沒有辦法說我沒有一個單位有辦法說這樣整天都是在打架那你就可以去如果假設法不夠那就應該修法或者是有沒有牽扯到經費的問題否則你們做了這個流程到底解決了什麼問題因為我們來看一個很大的問題就是這事實上是衛福部提供給我們的流程所以我想問一下部長你如果看這流程有什麼問題"},{"start":348.449,"end":376.741,"text":"這當然是時間程序是比較冗長難怪會走18天或是到5個月的一個時間點所以現在這一點也就是說因為我們從母法然後到去制定私隱細則私隱細則5到7條的部分的話這個程序是冗長的部長我覺得我告訴你最不能接受的兩件事情第一個目前影像中心處理的案源只是消極的被動的接受檢舉跟申訴因為我剛剛提過"},{"start":377.641,"end":406.87,"text":"看影片買影片的人他不會來跟你報告那另外一方面受害者可能基於我們自卑或是他被威脅甚至被偷拍的人根本不知道因為有的是廁所偷拍你的案員如果來自是本身那這樣子是做做樣子然後根本沒有打到問題的核心第二個是近期協助在蜂王組織是速發布來發布的就是委託的那個臺灣網路資訊中心看了流程我整個是傻眼的"},{"start":407.31,"end":433.568,"text":"竟然他是要走到最後一個流程才會有他否則的話不會那難怪會走18天到5個月的時間這個流程根本就是很荒謬可發文立即就可以封網的這個農場官僚作業我覺得簡直是國家級的笑話所以你上次上週部長你也霸氣的說當天就可以斷網那請問之前為什麼不做到底這個是流程的問題還是人的問題"},{"start":435.069,"end":449.421,"text":"對,那個是流程問題,就是第一種類型。我們的,訂了一個那個施行細則,它的流程就是這麼修長。所以,要求是不是?上個禮拜那個是我跳過那個施行細則,其實這個是在法律上有一些風險的。"},{"start":450.282,"end":469.002,"text":"﹗"},{"start":469.822,"end":488.012,"text":"臺灣網路資訊中心移到更前面所以在這邊我要求是不是下午就可以立即做第一個衛福部請跟你站在你旁邊的那個內政部警政署要立即建立我們的資訊訊息交換平臺警局報案的被害人的性影像目前沒有納入處理"},{"start":489.152,"end":512.74,"text":"那我要求性影像中心要納入警局報案的案件第二個依照兒少性剝削條例第8條的第一項或性侵害防治法的第13條只要知道有犯罪嫌疑情勢的時候就先限制跟移除所以本席要求這個流程要立刻修正一旦性影像中心判讀有犯罪嫌疑的話例如是未成年的那"},{"start":513.38,"end":523.84,"text":"就立刻通知我們的速發部或者是通傳會來處理。部長這個可以做得到嗎?這要請速發部這邊表示一下意見吧。"},{"start":527.749,"end":549.563,"text":"可是速發部也是說要等你們的所以你們速度有多快速發部才能有多快就技術面來講其實我們就是接到正式的這個韓文以後其實我們就會協調TWC然後來去處理那但是就剛剛其實剛剛陳如委員說那就在程序面上可能內容的這個網站的內容是否違法的話可能還是要這個主管機關來"},{"start":550.484,"end":563.393,"text":"所以部長是不是要趕快知覺因為影像在這邊因為我這幾天都受到受害人他們又在看到影片在上傳的時候對他們來講又是情緒崩潰所以速度請快一點在問題"},{"start":570.656,"end":599.475,"text":"這個到底是誰?第8條我們的網路內容防護機構指的是誰?不知道如果是IWIN那我告訴你IWIN叫做行政小幫手他有五個婆婆有經濟部、教育部、通傳會、衛福部、內政部到底他先做誰的事情?他兒少權法授權他46條授權他他只做分級教育訓練、自律然後他只通知平台移除所以我不知道可是這個法條是講說他可以去我不知道當初為什麼衛福部這邊會去看到"},{"start":600.316,"end":624.241,"text":"﹗"},{"start":624.52,"end":648.825,"text":"也請我們的甚至聽聽警員的一些心聲因為目前看到經費不足然後他們人力不足我覺得這內政部也要去做一些檢討知道他的那個狀態所以在這邊就期待要明定我們的專責單位就像剛剛部長講說如果法授權的話那有專責單位去海巡啊"},{"start":649.724,"end":677.8,"text":"我覺得第一時間可以去做到所以成立跨部會的性犯罪的防治中心所以以上是我這四項期待我們的衛福部所以還有剛剛講的那個流程一個月內能夠修正過來以上謝謝我覺得只是把那個台灣網路資訊中心往前提到前面去因為你把它放到最後事實上是不可行的"},{"start":679.317,"end":694.455,"text":"這事情沒有那麼簡單跟會員報告因為它涉及到原犯公權力的問題否則請問一下部長你要怎麼止血否則這個影像不斷的在流傳的時候那你多一天在網路上就多一天傳輸出去的可能性啊"},{"start":695.335,"end":715.866,"text":"這個部分的話就是說對於網站的部分的話我們可以先來處理啦那就是說但是最後還是需要法律授權給我們不然我們做這件事情就有一點風險法律不是沒有授權給你們啊法律就是說你只要知道有犯罪情勢的話就可以去做處理主動搜尋我們還不知道有犯罪我們就要去尋網路啊"},{"start":717.488,"end":746.714,"text":"可是現在連明明你都知道這個有這個網站,你們也沒去做啊?那個是另外一回事,所以我們現在已經可以做了,封網這件事情我們會做,但是移除性影像的這件下架的事情,那是在各個不同的,那不是封網的問題那不是,是個別的影像要讓它抓下來我說現在目前已經有好幾個都已經事實上是存在的,那是不是優先做處理?"},{"start":749.175,"end":769.125,"text":"我手頭上就有好幾個了我手頭上沒有啊因為我沒有辦法去搜尋啊我還是要看人家檢舉啊有沒有啦因為否則那你就立推去做檢舉啊否則的話目前我們現在看不到你的更積極的作為是什麼要有人跟我做檢舉啊"},{"start":770.97,"end":794.907,"text":"可是現在申訴的人就是卡到這兩個問題點對啊所以我就說你要有讓我能夠主動去搜尋嘛那我可以委託一個團體或怎麼樣他每天就是來接受我們的委託就每天在那邊往上上面繞嘛好那部長你要講要多久的時間其實我們的真實點應該是在時間可是我覺得直選真的很重要"},{"start":796.018,"end":797.279,"text":"時間關係,會後請委員再跟部長溝通,因為下一個委員會還有質詢,好謝謝"}]}}}}