{"id":151103,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151103","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e55d687eef36e997edfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a6c918614e2a6c40d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:10:48 - 10:23:07","影片長度":"00:12:19","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":739,"end_time":"2024-04-15T10:23:07+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T10:10:48+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":516,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（10時11分）我們是不是有請薛部長，還有我們數位發展部的曾文方副司長。"],["主席（盧委員縣一代）：請部長、曾文方副司長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，上個禮拜本席要求立刻針對創意私房進行封網的動作，也謝謝衛福部在第一時間處理，部長剛剛說你是冒著要被訴願的風險啟動了這樣一個即刻的行政作為，但是本席其實也要問部長，為什麼你會把細則訂得比母法來得更嚴格，變成綁手綁腳呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：當初在訂細則的時候，我並沒有參與啦！"],["王委員育敏：好，如果是這樣子，這個細則是不是應該要修正，而且應該要調整？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，應該要修正。"],["王委員育敏：不應該是細則反而讓自己的行政權受限吧，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，這個是未來我們要修正的一個方向。"],["王委員育敏：好，本席要求這個部分一定要去修正。另外一個，上次部長也提到授予你們有這一個即時下架的權限，未來我想各委員都提出版本，本席這邊也有提出修法，我們就是要往這個方向來做，讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像，一旦在網路上被發現的時候，一定是用最迅速、最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理。當然剛剛你也提到了，法務部檢察官其實是可以做的，我們是不是請法務部檢察司簡副司長也上臺？創意私房這個案件，事實上不是只有都靠衛福部，法務部的檢察官一發現，法律有授權給檢察官，你就是可以要求數位部去做封網的動作，那為什麼不做呢？"],["簡副司長美慧：跟委員報告，這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情，其實應該指的是向法院聲請扣押網域的名稱，意思就是檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候，把網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據，因為它這個證據必須要去保全，所以回到刑事訴訟法規定，是要向法官聲請做扣押網域名稱。事實上，今天大家在討論的創意私房論壇的這個部分，在檢察官偵辦的期間也確實有向法院來聲請扣押網域的名稱，也獲准，扣押了幾個月之後，因為網站它有更換網域的名稱，所以又有委員們所講死灰復燃的情形。檢察官可以做的部分就是在偵查中，而且這個部分不是檢察官自己做，我們是要依法向法院來聲請，要提出相關的事證……"],["王委員育敏：所以你們速度也是很慢囉？"],["簡副司長美慧：我們在偵查中有向法院提出聲請，也已經扣了，因為現在案件就北檢的部分是偵查終結，所以就如同薛部長所提的，其實檢查官的部分跟衛福部的部分，它是兩條可以並行不悖的。檢察官在偵查中的時候，我們已經做了向法院聲請域名扣押。"],["王委員育敏：但你花了多少時間呢？從檢察官發現到你們真正跟法院聲請下來，花了多少時間？"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，關於偵查中的細節部分我們可能要回去瞭解，我們現在瞭解確實有向法院聲請扣押獲准……"],["王委員育敏：好，本席要求的就是快速下架移除，這個是各部會都必須到位的，如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位，你們應該要回去檢討，好不好？我要求這個，因為這次事件之後，大家都很關心嘛！如果是你應做而未做的，我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間啦！法務部也應該要強化。因為這件事情，不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情，是跨部會，這是為什麼本席今天找這麼多部會大家一起來討論的原因。好，法務部先請回。","接著我要問的是數位部，剛剛衛福部的報告裡面提到移除的成功率86.7%，那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因？"],["曾副司長文方：其實剛剛部長有提到，有一部分可能主要因為網站是架設在國外。"],["王委員育敏：好，這部分我就要問你，既然我們成立了數發部，那要怎麼處理？"],["曾副司長文方：在網站部分，其實我們在這個報告中有提到，我們要努力精進RPZ的機制。"],["王委員育敏：好，我就具體問你一個問題，現在呈現出來的是，我們按照現行的法令，在你們封網之後，一般民眾到非法網站的這條路是堵上了，但是有些有心人士透過VPN的方式，請問你要怎麼處理？"],["曾副司長文方：這個是RPZ目前在技術上的部分，目前我們只有在技術上能做到最快速的停止解析網站，讓民眾沒辦法access到的最快速的方法，誠如委員說的，這個部分我們可能需要再去……"],["王委員育敏：你們今天要來報告，還沒有想過這個問題嗎？我另外要告訴你的，VPN在臺灣有兩大家，他們大打廣告，但是現在你們的管理模式是什麼？而且他們也廣招會員，如果這一塊你們不處理，沒有一些因應對策的話，我擔心他們透過這樣子的方式、透過VPN的方式，一樣可以成為會員、一樣可以去收藏、一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這些不當的影片，這一塊請問數發部你們要怎麼處理？"],["曾副司長文方：因為目前VPN在各部會應該都沒有納管，在國際上應該也沒有納管，所以這部分我們必須要再回去研究一下，在技術上看如何協助。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望數發部在這一件事情上面不要太被動，我要一再強調，有關於網路上這些兒少剝削影片即時的下架、移除跟封網和怎麼樣去要求這些業者自律跟管理，這不會是衛福部一個部會的事情，是要跨部會的，我們好不容易成立了數發部，你們應該要知道你們保護兒少的職責在哪裡，今天要來委員會報告，其實你們應該要想到這一塊，不是委員問的時候，看起來你們是沒有在準備，報告都說有在做，但是我問到這一塊，看起來你們現在還沒有因應方案，所以這個部分本席要求數發部，這是一大漏洞，你們應該回去好好的討論。","另外一個就是境外的社群平臺，這也是一大漏洞，其實你只要直接Google一些字就會跳出來，這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰，但是我們有數發部，這不會是衛福部要花時間的，他們沒那麼多時間跟精力，我要求數發部應該要好好的去討論。","此外，本席也發現，META之前允諾在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起合作，但是在2023年12月8號META也宣布要全面的加密啟用，在這樣的情況之下，看起來是有所牴觸的，當它全面加密啟用的時候，請問有一些不當的資訊、非法的內容，到底應該要怎麼管理？這個部分數發部你們知道嗎？"],["曾副司長文方：這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解，不過就像剛剛委員說的，因為新科技的發展日新月異，我們會再進一步去瞭解。"],["王委員育敏：好，這個部分我要求數發部，你們自己要有一個專案小組好好的討論，你們的角色主動性應該要出來。","剛剛部長一再提到主動監測這件事情，你們說你們沒有人力，薛部長說沒有人力嘛！那我就要問了，現在看起來各部會，從數發部到衛福部，到底是誰要來做這件事情？就是主動去瞭解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流竄，部長？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，這個部分要做到巡查，但不涉及最後處分的話，其實我們是可以委外。"],["王委員育敏：可以委外？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，有人來幫我們做這樣的巡查，發現可疑再報給我們。"],["王委員育敏：好，既然部長你說可以委外，本席就要求你們應該主動委外，因為這個主動性很重要，過去你們的模式是被動，就是被害人出現了，你們再來受理，要主動性的有效打擊犯罪，既然這個部分如果可以委外，那本席就要求衛福部委外，一旦有資訊，該是數發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網，該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪。"],["薛部長瑞元：不過，這部分也跟委員報告，我們可能需要在修法時把法律授權給我們做這件事……"],["王委員育敏：好。"],["薛部長瑞元：因為我怕會牴觸到言論自由這個部分。"],["王委員育敏：好，我們一定是限定在一定的條件底下做這件事情，不會是要去箝制言論自由，這個部分其實應該是可以來做的。","最後，我覺得教育部也有責任，我們是不是請教育部的戴副署長？衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到，我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱，有嗎？"],["戴副署長淑芬：課綱大概分兩個部分，第一個，如果是屬於性平的部分，它是……"],["王委員育敏：我就針對性剝削這個部分。"],["戴副署長淑芬：性剝削的話，它……"],["王委員育敏：應該是沒有吧？因為你們所有的報告有很多頁，我沒有看到……"],["戴副署長淑芬：是，還沒有那麼直接用這個詞，就是在……"],["王委員育敏：我發現現在教育部的作法都是宣導，並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子，這個很關鍵，他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情，所以我具體要求，本席也會提出修法，在第四條裡面，每學期應該要放入兒少性剝削防制的教育課程，至少要兩個小時，我們太忽略孩子在網路上面的受害了，我們都用這一種很片段式的、短暫的宣導，坦白講，我覺得並沒有達到效果，如果我們看到孩子受害的數據越來越多的話，我覺得在更前端去教育孩子，怎麼避免在網路上成為被害者，這一點是教育部責無旁貸的，也是應該要做的，副署長，你支持嗎？我們把性剝削防制教育課程納為正式的課程。"],["戴副署長淑芬：如果是課綱的話，因為已經審議過108的課綱，可能就是下一波的課綱。"],["王委員育敏：好，本席要求要納入，因為衛福部的報告說你們已經納入課綱了，那他們誤解了。"],["戴副署長淑芬：是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分。"],["王委員育敏：我覺得現在這個兒少性剝削的議題真的是非常嚴重，我覺得前端的教育，讓每一個孩子建立起自我保護的意識，避免被騙，不要導致自己變成受害者，我覺得教育端在這一塊真的要好好強化，而不是都是在後面事後補救而已，教育部也應該負起這樣的責任，可以嗎？"],["戴副署長淑芬：是，我們會在下一波課綱研議時研議是不是將性剝削這個詞直接放入。"],["王委員育敏：好，我希望我們可以透過事前的教育以及積極的查緝，還有事後的重罰，一起全面保護我們的兒少不會受害，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員。","下一位請廖偉翔委員。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：好，我們請廖偉翔委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 617.738, \"end\": 617.938, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 617.938, \"end\": 618.618, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 618.618, \"end\": 618.799, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 618.799, \"end\": 618.919, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 618.919, \"end\": 619.339, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 619.339, \"end\": 619.499, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 619.499, \"end\": 619.719, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 619.719, \"end\": 619.94, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 619.94, \"end\": 620.18, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 620.18, \"end\": 620.4, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 620.4, \"end\": 621.12, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, 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00:00:45,550\n部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來的更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢\n\n3\n00:00:49,522 --> 00:01:17,074\n當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限\n\n4\n00:01:18,755 --> 00:01:34,772\n這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理\n\n5\n00:01:37,495 --> 00:02:03,076\n那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢\n\n6\n00:02:04,231 --> 00:02:27,517\n跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分\n\n7\n00:02:30,018 --> 00:02:30,678\n所以你們速度也是很慢囉?\n\n8\n00:02:53,809 --> 00:02:54,570\n但你花了多少時間呢?\n\n9\n00:03:14,912 --> 00:03:21,635\n從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好\n\n10\n00:03:35,020 --> 00:04:02,361\n我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7%\n\n11\n00:04:05,043 --> 00:04:08,487\n那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理?\n\n12\n00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:34,862\n我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理\n\n13\n00:04:58,133 --> 00:05:17,790\n這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去\n\n14\n00:05:18,490 --> 00:05:37,086\n你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話\n\n15\n00:05:37,887 --> 00:06:05,581\n那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我\n\n16\n00:06:08,004 --> 00:06:24,180\n我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網\n\n17\n00:06:25,041 --> 00:06:26,382\n這個部分本期要求這個數法部這個是\n\n18\n00:06:54,121 --> 00:07:19,889\n一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部\n\n19\n00:07:21,730 --> 00:07:51,025\n你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容\n\n20\n00:07:51,525 --> 00:08:17,714\n到底應該要怎麼去管理?那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去瞭解好這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來\n\n21\n00:08:18,134 --> 00:08:34,604\n另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情\n\n22\n00:08:36,397 --> 00:08:52,066\n就主動去了解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外\n\n23\n00:08:52,762 --> 00:09:13,602\n可以委外有人來幫我們做這樣的審查發現說可以的再報給你那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪\n\n24\n00:09:14,102 --> 00:09:37,272\n那這個部分如果既然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分\n\n25\n00:09:37,512 --> 00:09:58,951\n好我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情不會是要去前置這個言論自由這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好最後我覺得教育部也有責任我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎\n\n26\n00:10:02,179 --> 00:10:15,856\n呃,課綱的話大概分兩個部分。第一個的話,如果是屬於性評的部分,呃,他是……我就針對性剝削的這個部分。呃,性剝削的話,他……應該是沒有吧?因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到。還沒有那麼直接用這個詞。\n\n27\n00:10:17,738 --> 00:10:34,551\n現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期\n\n28\n00:10:36,553 --> 00:10:40,815\n應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個宣導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者\n\n29\n00:11:02,504 --> 00:11:19,596\n這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的這個副署長你支持嗎就是我們把這一個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱\n\n30\n00:11:21,482 --> 00:11:43,491\n好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了而是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分那我覺得現在這一個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後\n\n31\n00:11:44,792 --> 00:11:55,054\n然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎\n\n32\n00:11:55,983 --> 00:12:14,477\n我們會在下一波課堂研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8451\t8471\t蕭委員長\n19636\t45550\t部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來的更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢\n49522\t77074\t當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限\n78755\t94772\t這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理\n97495\t123076\t那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢\n124231\t147517\t跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分\n150018\t150678\t所以你們速度也是很慢囉?\n173809\t174570\t但你花了多少時間呢?\n194912\t201635\t從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好\n215020\t242361\t我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好 這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7%\n245043\t248487\t那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理?\n268660\t274862\t我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理\n298133\t317790\t這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去\n318490\t337086\t你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話\n337887\t365581\t那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我\n368004\t384180\t我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網\n385041\t386382\t這個部分本期要求這個數法部這個是\n414121\t439889\t一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部\n441730\t471025\t你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容\n471525\t497714\t到底應該要怎麼去管理?那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去瞭解好 這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來\n498134\t514604\t另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情\n516397\t532066\t就主動去了解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外\n532762\t553602\t可以委外有人來幫我們做這樣的審查發現說可以的再報給你那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪\n554102\t577272\t那這個部分如果既然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分\n577512\t598951\t好 我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情 不會是要去前置這個言論自由 這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好 最後我覺得教育部也有責任 我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長 代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到 我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎\n602179\t615856\t呃,課綱的話大概分兩個部分。第一個的話,如果是屬於性評的部分,呃,他是……我就針對性剝削的這個部分。呃,性剝削的話,他……應該是沒有吧?因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到。還沒有那麼直接用這個詞。\n617738\t634551\t現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期\n636553\t640815\t應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個宣導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者\n662504\t679596\t這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的這個副署長你支持嗎就是我們把這一個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱\n681482\t703491\t好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了而是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分那我覺得現在這一個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後\n704792\t715054\t然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎\n715983\t734477\t我們會在下一波課堂研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝\n","txt":"蕭委員長\n部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來的更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢\n當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限\n這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理\n那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢\n跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分\n所以你們速度也是很慢囉?\n但你花了多少時間呢?\n從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好\n我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好 這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7%\n那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理?\n我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理\n這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去\n你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話\n那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我\n我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網\n這個部分本期要求這個數法部這個是\n一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部\n你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容\n到底應該要怎麼去管理?那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去瞭解好 這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來\n另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情\n就主動去了解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外\n可以委外有人來幫我們做這樣的審查發現說可以的再報給你那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪\n那這個部分如果既然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分\n好 我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情 不會是要去前置這個言論自由 這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好 最後我覺得教育部也有責任 我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長 代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到 我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎\n呃,課綱的話大概分兩個部分。第一個的話,如果是屬於性評的部分,呃,他是……我就針對性剝削的這個部分。呃,性剝削的話,他……應該是沒有吧?因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到。還沒有那麼直接用這個詞。\n現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期\n應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個宣導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者\n這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的這個副署長你支持嗎就是我們把這一個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱\n好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了而是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分那我覺得現在這一個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後\n然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎\n我們會在下一波課堂研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.451 --> 00:08.471\n蕭委員長\n\n00:19.636 --> 00:45.550\n部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來的更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢\n\n00:49.522 --> 01:17.074\n當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限\n\n01:18.755 --> 01:34.772\n這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理\n\n01:37.495 --> 02:03.076\n那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢\n\n02:04.231 --> 02:27.517\n跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分\n\n02:30.018 --> 02:30.678\n所以你們速度也是很慢囉?\n\n02:53.809 --> 02:54.570\n但你花了多少時間呢?\n\n03:14.912 --> 03:21.635\n從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好\n\n03:35.020 --> 04:02.361\n我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7%\n\n04:05.043 --> 04:08.487\n那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理?\n\n04:28.660 --> 04:34.862\n我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理\n\n04:58.133 --> 05:17.790\n這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去\n\n05:18.490 --> 05:37.086\n你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話\n\n05:37.887 --> 06:05.581\n那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我\n\n06:08.004 --> 06:24.180\n我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網\n\n06:25.041 --> 06:26.382\n這個部分本期要求這個數法部這個是\n\n06:54.121 --> 07:19.889\n一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部\n\n07:21.730 --> 07:51.025\n你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容\n\n07:51.525 --> 08:17.714\n到底應該要怎麼去管理?那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去瞭解好這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來\n\n08:18.134 --> 08:34.604\n另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情\n\n08:36.397 --> 08:52.066\n就主動去了解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外\n\n08:52.762 --> 09:13.602\n可以委外有人來幫我們做這樣的審查發現說可以的再報給你那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪\n\n09:14.102 --> 09:37.272\n那這個部分如果既然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分\n\n09:37.512 --> 09:58.951\n好我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情不會是要去前置這個言論自由這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好最後我覺得教育部也有責任我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎\n\n10:02.179 --> 10:15.856\n呃,課綱的話大概分兩個部分。第一個的話,如果是屬於性評的部分,呃,他是……我就針對性剝削的這個部分。呃,性剝削的話,他……應該是沒有吧?因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到。還沒有那麼直接用這個詞。\n\n10:17.738 --> 10:34.551\n現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期\n\n10:36.553 --> 10:40.815\n應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個宣導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者\n\n11:02.504 --> 11:19.596\n這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的這個副署長你支持嗎就是我們把這一個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱\n\n11:21.482 --> 11:43.491\n好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了而是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分那我覺得現在這一個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後\n\n11:44.792 --> 11:55.054\n然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎\n\n11:55.983 --> 12:14.477\n我們會在下一波課堂研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.451,"end":8.471,"text":"蕭委員長"},{"start":19.636,"end":45.55,"text":"部長好,部長上個禮拜本席要求要立刻針對創意私房就是進行封網的動作那也謝謝衛福部在第一時間部長你剛剛說你是冒著這個還要被訴願的風險就是啟動了這樣的一個即刻的行政作為那但是呢本席其實也要問部長的是說為什麼你會把細則定的比母法來的更嚴格變成綁手綁腳呢"},{"start":49.522,"end":77.074,"text":"當初在訂細則的時候我並沒有參與好那如果是這樣子的話這個細則是不是應該要修正而且應該要調整不應該是細則來反而讓自己的這個行政權受限吧對不對這個是未來我們要修正好本期要求這個部分就是一定要去修正另外一個就是商事部長也提到授予你們有這個權限即使下架的這個權限"},{"start":78.755,"end":94.772,"text":"這個未來我想這個各委員都提出版本本期這邊也有提出修法我們就是要往這個方向來做讓這一些不當的性剝削的影像一旦在網路上被發現的時候一定是用最迅速最快速的時間來做這樣的一個處理"},{"start":97.495,"end":123.076,"text":"那當然剛剛你也提到了這個法務部的檢察官其實是可以的我們是不是請法務部檢察司檢副司長你也上台為什麼這個創意私房這個案件事實上不是只有都靠衛福部法務部的檢察官一發現這個法律也授權給檢察官你就是可以去做這個動作封網的動作要求數位部那為什麼不做呢"},{"start":124.231,"end":147.517,"text":"跟委員報告就是這邊所講的檢察官可以做的事情其實應該指的是向法院申請扣押那個網域的名稱意思就是說檢察官在偵查這個案件的時候那把這個就是網路上的這個部分當作是一個犯罪的證據那因為他這個證據必須要去保全所以回到刑事訴訟法規定是要向法官來申請做這個就是扣押網域名稱那事實上就是說今天大家在討論的這個論壇這個創意私房的這個部分"},{"start":150.018,"end":150.678,"text":"所以你們速度也是很慢囉?"},{"start":173.809,"end":174.57,"text":"但你花了多少時間呢?"},{"start":194.912,"end":201.635,"text":"從檢察官發現到你們徵證跟法院申請下來花了多少時間?本席要求的就是快速下架移除這個是各部會都必須到位的如果法務部這邊也沒有做到位你們應該要回去檢討好不好"},{"start":215.02,"end":242.361,"text":"我要求這個因為這次事件之後大家都很關心嘛那如果是你應作而未作的我覺得這個大家都有檢討的空間法務部也應該要強化因為這件事情不是只有衛福部一個部會的事情是跨部會這是為什麼本期今天找這麼多部會來大家一起來討論好 這個法務部先請回我要問的是這個數位部就是這個剛剛衛福部的報告裡面他提到移除的成功率86.7%"},{"start":245.043,"end":248.487,"text":"那你們知不知道沒有移除成功的是什麼原因?剛剛部長有提到那有一部分是可能主要是因為網站是架設在國外的部分好那這部分我就要問你數位部既然我們成立了數位部、數發部要怎麼處理?"},{"start":268.66,"end":274.862,"text":"我現在呈現出來的就是我們現在按照現行的法律就是你們封網之後一般民眾到非法網站這條路是堵上了但是有些有心人士他透過VPN的方式請問你要怎麼處理"},{"start":298.133,"end":317.79,"text":"這個是RPZ目前在技術上我們這在技術上目前能做到最快速的這個所謂的停止解析網站讓這個民眾沒辦法民眾沒辦法access到的最最快速的方法那陳如委員說的這個部分的話我們可能需要再去"},{"start":318.49,"end":337.086,"text":"你們今天要來報告還沒有想過這個問題嗎我另外的要告訴你的VPN在台灣有兩大家他們大打廣告但是現在你們的這個管理模式是什麼而且他們也廣招會員所以如果這一塊你們不處理的話沒有一些因應對策的話"},{"start":337.887,"end":365.581,"text":"那我擔心的就是他透過這樣子的一個方式透過VPN的方式一樣是可以去成為會員一樣可以去收藏一樣可以去觀看瀏覽這一些不當的影片那這一塊請問這個書發布你們要怎麼處理因為目前VPN的VPN其實在各部會應該是都沒有納管那在國際上應該也沒有納管那所以這部分的話我"},{"start":368.004,"end":384.18,"text":"我們必須要再回去研究一下在技術上看我希望速發布在這一件事情上面不要太被動我要一再強調有關於網路上這一些兒少剝削影片的即時的下架移除跟封網"},{"start":385.041,"end":386.382,"text":"這個部分本期要求這個數法部這個是"},{"start":414.121,"end":439.889,"text":"一大漏洞所以你們應該回去好好的討論另外一個就是境外的社群平台也是一大漏洞就是這個部分就是直接你只要下載一些就是Google一些字其實就會跳出來那這一塊也一樣是在管理上面很大的挑戰但是我們有數法部這不會是衛福部要花時間他們沒那麼多時間跟精力但我要求這個數法部"},{"start":441.73,"end":471.025,"text":"你們應該要好好的去討論另外呢本席也發現就是像Meta他之前有允諾說在這個部分可以跟衛福部一起來合作但是同時在2023年12月8號Meta也宣布他要全面的加密啟用那在這樣的一個情況底下看起來是有所抵觸的當他全面加密啟用的時候請問有一些不當的資訊非法的內容"},{"start":471.525,"end":497.714,"text":"到底應該要怎麼去管理?那這個部分書發布你們知道嗎?這部分我們可能還要再進一步瞭解不過就像剛剛委員說的其實因為新科技的這個發展日新月異那我們會再進一步去瞭解好 這個部分我要求書發布你們自己要一個專案小組好好的討論就是你們的角色主動性應該要出來"},{"start":498.134,"end":514.604,"text":"另外一個剛剛部長也在提到的就是主動監測的這件事情你說你們沒有人力那個薛部長說沒有人力嘛那我就要問了現在看起來各部會從數發部到衛福部到底是誰要來做這件事情"},{"start":516.397,"end":532.066,"text":"就主動去了解、巡查到底有哪些不當資訊在流傳?部長跟我們報告這部分的話要去做這種巡查但是不涉及最後的一個處分的話其實我們是可以委外"},{"start":532.762,"end":553.602,"text":"可以委外有人來幫我們做這樣的審查發現說可以的再報給你那既然部長你說可以委外本席就要求你們應該主動委外因為這個主動性很重要過去你們的模式是被動就是被害人出現了你們再來受力但是主動性的去有效打擊犯罪"},{"start":554.102,"end":577.272,"text":"那這個部分如果既然可以委外那本席就要求衛福部委外一旦有資訊該是書發部要立刻去封網的就趕快封網該是法務部要進一步打擊犯罪就應該打擊犯罪不過這一個部分的話也跟委員報告我們可能需要在修法的時候把有法律授權給我們做這件事好因為我怕會抵觸到所謂的這一個言論自由的這個部分"},{"start":577.512,"end":598.951,"text":"好 我們一定是限定一定的條件底下做這件事情 不會是要去前置這個言論自由 這個部分其實應該是可以來做的好 最後我覺得教育部也有責任 我們是不是請這個教育部我們的副署長 代副署長這個衛福部在第4頁的報告裡面提到 我們現在性剝削防制條例有納入課綱有嗎"},{"start":602.179,"end":615.856,"text":"呃,課綱的話大概分兩個部分。第一個的話,如果是屬於性評的部分,呃,他是……我就針對性剝削的這個部分。呃,性剝削的話,他……應該是沒有吧?因為你所有的報告很多頁我沒有看到。還沒有那麼直接用這個詞。"},{"start":617.738,"end":634.551,"text":"現在我發現教育部的做法都是宣導都是辦宣導並沒有在課綱裡面用一個比較正式的課程來告訴孩子這個很關鍵的他們現在在網路上可能會受害的這件事情所以我具體要求本協會提出修法在第4條裡面每學期"},{"start":636.553,"end":640.815,"text":"應該要放入這個兒少性剝削防治的教育課程至少要兩個小時我們太忽略孩子在網路上面他們的受害了那我們都用這一種很片段式的短暫的一個宣導坦白講我覺得並沒有達到效果如果我們看到這個孩子受害的數據是越來越多的話我覺得更前端的去教育孩子怎麼避免在網路上面成為被害者"},{"start":662.504,"end":679.596,"text":"這一點是我們教育部應該責無旁貸也應該要做的這個副署長你支持嗎就是我們把這一個性剝削防制教育的課程納為正式的課程如果是課綱的話可能因為已經審議過了108的嘛可能就是下一波的課綱"},{"start":681.482,"end":703.491,"text":"好本期要求要求要納入因為衛福部的報告說你已經納入課綱了那他們誤解了而是在性別平等教育跟數位素養的部分那我覺得現在這一個兒少性剝削的這個議題真的是非常嚴重我覺得這個前端的教育讓每一個孩子建立起這個自我保護的意識避免去被騙然後"},{"start":704.792,"end":715.054,"text":"然後導致自己變成受害者我覺得這一塊的教育端真的也是要好好來強化而不是都是在後面事後補救而已教育部也應該負起這樣的責任可以嗎"},{"start":715.983,"end":734.477,"text":"我們會在下一波課堂研議的時候就在研議是不是性剝削這個詞直接放這樣好那這個我希望我們可以透過事前的教育然後積極的查緝還有事後的重罰我們一起來全面保護我們的兒少不會受害謝謝"}]}}}}