{"id":151117,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151117","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0ecf12a1b01f59422edfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a6bca3518ba49ab3a15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:09:25 - 11:30:28","影片長度":"00:21:03","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":1263,"end_time":"2024-04-15T11:30:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T11:09:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":792,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時9分）主席、大家午安，還是請薛部長。"],["主席：好，請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，我今天來這裡要先再一次地強調，有關黃子佼去購買影片的來源，這個創意私房本身就是一個性犯罪網站，它不是持有未成年性犯罪影像而已喔，還包括成年的女性，它的網站內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍，或者是很多感情生變前的前女友不雅照、性愛片，而且標榜上傳者是獨立開發拍攝；而且它還號稱自己網頁的特色是會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證。這個即便對成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害，所以讓這些人每日、終日惶惶不安啊！深怕被指認，甚至不敢出面控訴。有的人也因為被公布了IG、臉書和學校，所以持續被跟蹤騷擾，甚至更進一步衍生了性侵害犯罪案件！","在黃子佼事件當中，大家在報導中都只看到他有7部未成年兒童性犯罪影像，我們還要再看到這一點，整個創意私房、整個論壇不是性產業，是性犯罪產業網站！所以你今天還在講說，就從法規上將它停網會不會引起爭議，我跟你講它是犯罪行為、它很標準！今天在這裡還有人以為看一下A片沒什麼，可是在這裡我再講一次，這一個論壇、這一個網站就不是A片，都是非法的、非自願性的私密影像，這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上，讓持有的人很爽，可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦，而且還金援這一類喪心病狂的產業，讓更多的女性和兒少受害人在那裡受害，所以他是加害者、助長性犯罪產業的共犯！","而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼，你知道嗎？可以點菜、可以出任務，你知道嗎？部長，他們還有點菜、點餐、出任務，你知道嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我不知道。"],["林委員淑芬：它把被害人的臉書、IG公開，它還可以點菜，點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像，我們會有人去出任務！所以會員裡面有人點菜、出任務，如果是會員，大家付錢請人去做性犯罪影像，然後到時候緩起訴，點菜的人是主使、還是只是持有影片、還是只是觀看者？部長，這個點菜的會員？"],["薛部長瑞元：他有可能變成是教唆犯。"],["林委員淑芬：是教唆、指使，沒錯啊！所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的講說，這一類的犯罪你給他緩起訴，或是依現有的法規、現有的法律你還擔心這會不會被訴願，這個在行政處分上將它強制停網會不會引起什麼爭議，我告訴你，遠遠不會！他們是犯罪集團、做犯罪的事。然後你對一個有這麼大社會聲量還有財富資源的人緩起訴，你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊？他是會員、他是一個有可能提供性犯罪產業金援的共犯，如果他還點菜、有人幫他出任務，他就是教唆、指使者，教唆、指使性犯罪！所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應他們緩起訴，還講到一點叫做：兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害，才讓黃子佼緩起訴，而不是縱放被告。我們聽不下去、我們聽不下去！所以臺北地檢署這樣的作法是不是單一個案，我今天等一下再來討論。","我現在就教你，就看你們衛福部今天提供的數字，被害人的被害趨勢、特點是什麼？包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態，他們的特點是什麼？他們被害的趨勢是怎麼樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：被害的趨勢主要是影像部分。"],["林委員淑芬：不是啦，就年齡和性剝削的樣態。"],["薛部長瑞元：年齡可能有一點趨向在十出頭歲。"],["林委員淑芬：到國小啦，已經是12到18歲為大宗啦，已經到國小了，這個是受害者，然後性勒索成為新型態，不分性別，你剛剛講的你想想看，剛才說點菜、出任務，出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚，釣魚式的出任務，一種是在網路上網戀，然後他要拍照片、拍影像給他，然後他把他拍的上傳到網站上去，這種也有喔！釣魚式的，這個是性犯罪產業，還有一種是詐騙產業。","這裡有一位叫趙逸帆，他可能是教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的，他說手遊裡或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重，你知道傳說對決這個遊戲裡面，世界聊天室的訊息截圖，可以看到遊戲正在進行，旁邊有各種各式各樣的聊天室，他說每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況，可以連線、可以傳遞訊息、可以聊天，這裡面的性剝削分成五種狀況，第一種是對價物品的交換，利誘小孩子，因為小孩子很容易受騙，另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室，情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求、在青春期的好奇，所以很多男生收到女生傳的私密照，然後男生也把自己私密照再傳出去，這些照片到底是大人釣魚誘騙還是真實的？他的對象是什麼都不知道，還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請，你想不想愛愛、聊色色的邀請。","在遊戲裡面還有這種排位、有組隊的手遊，有陪打、陪玩系統這種文化，讓能力低的提升能力、階級，所以要強的去帶弱的，這在遊戲裡面，所以陪玩、陪聊的越多，然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任，然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等，還有一種是公會組織系統。我今天要講這個是，其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人，我們都不知道，裡面的誘拐很多，遊戲有沒有人在管理？部長，遊戲聊天室裡面的網公、網婆制度有沒有人在管理？遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛、想色色、進來聊天的邀請，有沒有人在管理？"],["薛部長瑞元：遊戲的部分，老實講衛福部沒有能力去管。"],["林委員淑芬：那誰要管？我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面，你今天說你沒有能力管。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["林委員淑芬：雙手一攤說你沒有能力管？那誰要保護我們的小孩？到時候勒索就來了，在這個裡面，詐騙集團也在裡面，性犯罪產業也在裡面，每個人都把小孩當成目標，每個人都在裡面釣魚，然後每個人到時候就會進行勒索，每個人都要剝削這些孩子，如你們所說，你說你沒有辦法管，那我們小孩子怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管。"],["林委員淑芬：那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是要怎麼管？"],["薛部長瑞元：委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有……"],["林委員淑芬：我知道今天出席的部會，其他部會的層級都很低啊！低到這麼低，我都不曉得要問誰了！我問你具體要怎麼管？我現在再告訴你，你們明明知道，以去年為例，這些利用兒童拍攝的性剝削影片已經達到2,903件，這是去年的，前年還有1,971件，一年內大幅成長1,000件，增加了30、40%的受害者。"],["薛部長瑞元：這是有關於性影像的部分。"],["林委員淑芬：受害啊。"],["薛部長瑞元：性剝削啦！"],["林委員淑芬：一年增加1,000件，增加三成以上耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，兒少性剝削的部分。"],["林委員淑芬：對啊！影像式的性剝削，那怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：是啊！我們現在……其實有幾位委員在問的時候，大概我們的方向……"],["林委員淑芬：不是只有加重，徒法不足以自行，我現在再告訴你，你知道違反兒童及少年性剝削防制條例的量刑低、起訴率也低！歷年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多，差不多有65.2%的比例，是不是？65%。"],["薛部長瑞元：這法務部比較清楚。"],["林委員淑芬：你說法務部比較清楚，但你不能不知道，你們是防制兒少性剝削的主管機關，雖然是法務部的責任，但你們不能不知道啊！部長！"],["薛部長瑞元：知道，可以知道啊！"],["林委員淑芬：那我再問你，比例到底有多高？副司長，你也說一下，緩起訴或不起訴的居多。"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，因為兒少性剝削防制條例的犯罪類型態樣很多，相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計……"],["林委員淑芬：你今天來這裡報告，人家問你你知道黃子佼是緩起訴，大家對緩起訴都很有意見，然後你就來這裡備詢，你什麼資料都沒有準備，你也敢來嗎？是因為你的層級太低嗎？"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，我們有準備跟這個案件相關的資料……"],["林委員淑芬：你唸一下給我聽，跟我剛剛問的問題相關的資料，你沒有準備到我問的問題，那你準備了什麼，唸給我聽一下。"],["簡副司長美慧：我們主要準備的就是針對今天這個專題的報告，要來說明法制面上的部分到底怎麼樣去防制數位……"],["林委員淑芬：不要再說了，法制面？你連數據都沒有準備，你們這樣在這裡準備是虛與委蛇、聊備一格！"],["簡副司長美慧：我們還有相關的因應作為……"],["林委員淑芬：你回去！刑事局也沒什麼人，只有警察防治組，還一個副組長，刑事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO（美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心）建立窗口，透過美方資料庫和通報機制，突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件困難的因素，就讓他突破了，可是這位報導者跨國訪談這一個美國NGO（NCMEC）的總監Jennifer Newman的時候，他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統（CyberTipline）的統計中發現，從2019年到2022年，美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自臺灣IP的通報數量成長2.3倍，數量多少你知道嗎？副組長？"],["斯副組長儀仙：謝謝委員，我們刑事局的同仁在這邊，我請他們回答……"],["林委員淑芬：你都不知道，這裡都沒適合的層級，從IP的數量來看，來自臺灣的數量從3萬變成7萬，凸顯性剝削影像在臺灣氾濫的程度，而這些資訊，我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足、缺乏經費、偵查辦案的專業能力不足，但我們今天看到這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的NGO來幫助我們刑事局，還需要外國的NGO透過臺灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報，從這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能！","最後，為什麼徒法不足以自行？我們今天加重刑責了，還是有很大的問題啊！因為像2012年成立的創意私房、2021年把它停網、封網了，可是它把「.net」改成「.com」以後，它還是在繼續經營，我要講今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象，大家都看到了，但是就算被看到了，我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識，然後它上一次的經驗是一個月後回歸，一個月以後它如果再滿血回歸、挑戰公權力，我覺得我們是滿面全豆花啦！政府被人看衰，這也不是沒有道理。","我要舉一個具體的例子，我一直講徒法不足以自行，我這裡有一個個案，除了黃子佼緩起訴以外，檢察機關動輒就是緩起訴，還可以講是為了被害人好，不用出庭，我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決，一個大學生去網路上網戀，然後叫一個未成年女性拍照，這個照片很鹹溼啦，這個判決在這裡，我們誘拐、誘騙未成年兒童拍攝影像，不論是被拍或是自行拍攝，是觸犯哪一條？兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第幾條？第幾條？你不知道喔？"],["張司長秀鴛：第三十六條。"],["林委員淑芬：第三十六條的刑度從幾年開始？為什麼我說要加重刑度，如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話，沒有效啦！你看這個個案，第三十六條的規定是三年以上，但法院怎麼判的你知道嗎？他被判多久你知道嗎？判了一年十個月，緩刑五年！刑度是三年以上的個案，怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢？為什麼？司長你想得出來嗎？部長你想得出來嗎？各位委員你們想得出來嗎？本刑是三年以上，他怎麼可以被判一年十個月？"],["薛部長瑞元：我是沒有看到判決書啦！"],["林委員淑芬：我唸給你聽，他觸犯的規定是處三年以上十年以下有期徒刑，得併科新臺幣三百萬元以下罰金，但判決理由中表示刑度不可謂不重，然同為是類案件犯罪，其原因動機不一，犯罪情節亦未必相同，其行為所造成的社會危害程度亦有別，依其情狀量以適度之刑責應足以懲儆，並且可達到防衛社會的目的，自非不可考量其主觀惡性與客觀犯行有無顯可憐憫之處，所以適用刑法第五十九條之規定酌量減輕其刑，期使個案裁判之量刑，能斟酌至當，符合比例原則。","我們都知道誘拐未成年拍攝影像的刑度是最輕本刑三年以上，但法官的態度認為這個沒啥，法官知道他有沒有把影片上傳到創意私房嗎？他不知道拍這種現在都是釣魚式的，很多都是為了賣錢。這個還不是最嚴重的，你自己看10月14號的新聞，一個警察誘騙三個未成年少女，他在別的網站上的影像外洩，然後警察知道了就來找他，警察叫他再拍一次，然後上傳到論壇，這個警察照道理說是違反了第三十六條，結果這個警察被判多久，你知道嗎？"],["斯副組長儀仙：一年十個月。"],["林委員淑芬：為什麼判一年十個月？第三十六條最輕本刑就三年以上，但他連被起訴時用第三十六條的條文都沒有，為什麼？為什麼？檢察官發生什麼事了？法官發生什麼事了？警察辦案發生什麼事？這種狀況你們都沒有認為很奇怪嗎？部長，在這裡你不能跟我們說你們沒有辦法，不能說這不是你管的，不能這樣說！你是主管機關，你也要去會同相關檢警審看要怎麼處理，這些案件要怎麼辦，明明已經有第三十六條的規定在那裡，到最後卻有辦法只判一年十個月，每案都判一年十個月，每案都緩起訴，大多數都緩起訴，每案都能減刑，這樣對嗎？難怪這些人敢這麼做嘛！加重，我們今天在這裡說要加重有用嗎？加重以後減刑，加重有用嗎？加重以後緩起訴。所以徒法不足以自行啊！語重心長！","抱歉，我占多了時間。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員的質詢，等一下洪申翰委員發言結束後處理臨時提案。","現在請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 1233.849, \"end\": 1233.989, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 1233.989, \"end\": 1234.009, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1247.739, \"end\": 1247.759, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,871 --> 00:00:20,832\n主席,各位大家午安,是不是還是請我們薛部長。好,請薛部長。午安好。部長。\n\n2\n00:00:23,012 --> 00:00:45,765\n我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他只有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性\n\n3\n00:00:46,485 --> 00:01:13,723\n他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證\n\n4\n00:01:16,425 --> 00:01:16,473\n主席。\n\n5\n00:01:18,954 --> 00:01:46,106\n這個對無數的即便是成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件\n\n6\n00:01:47,850 --> 00:02:04,652\n所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊\n\n7\n00:02:06,482 --> 00:02:11,403\n所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像\n\n8\n00:02:34,489 --> 00:02:37,690\n所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業\n\n9\n00:02:59,276 --> 00:03:14,588\n讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎\n\n10\n00:03:26,735 --> 00:03:54,700\n他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴\n\n11\n00:03:57,335 --> 00:04:04,501\n點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範\n\n12\n00:04:14,423 --> 00:04:41,983\n是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事\n\n13\n00:04:43,447 --> 00:05:11,197\n然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪\n\n14\n00:05:12,509 --> 00:05:29,708\n所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去\n\n15\n00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:57,452\n我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態\n\n16\n00:05:59,175 --> 00:06:27,333\n他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了\n\n17\n00:06:28,654 --> 00:06:55,296\n這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我\n\n18\n00:06:56,397 --> 00:07:07,619\n然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道\n\n19\n00:07:26,524 --> 00:07:48,370\n遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的\n\n20\n00:07:49,210 --> 00:08:17,480\n性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去\n\n21\n00:08:19,013 --> 00:08:33,693\n這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種\n\n22\n00:08:36,376 --> 00:09:03,445\n有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪聊的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說\n\n23\n00:09:05,171 --> 00:09:31,550\n其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理\n\n24\n00:09:41,451 --> 00:09:51,493\n那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成\n\n25\n00:10:06,482 --> 00:10:16,027\n目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子\n\n26\n00:10:17,762 --> 00:10:40,541\n你主理們所說你說你沒有辦法管那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了那我問你說具體要怎麼管\n\n27\n00:10:41,397 --> 00:10:53,303\n那我現在在告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、遛兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件\n\n28\n00:11:04,810 --> 00:11:26,471\n增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸!對啊!影像式的性剝削啊!啊那怎麼辦?\n\n29\n00:11:27,751 --> 00:11:44,821\n啊這我們就是現在其實有幾位委員在問的時候大概我們的方向不是只有加重土法不足以自行我現在再告訴你啦你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防制條例的量刑低起訴率也低\n\n30\n00:11:46,687 --> 00:11:55,794\n例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部\n\n31\n00:12:08,936 --> 00:12:26,724\n你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多?\n\n32\n00:12:32,711 --> 00:12:42,058\n報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說人家問你你知道黃子嬌是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎\n\n33\n00:12:52,845 --> 00:12:59,509\n包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦\n\n34\n00:13:21,561 --> 00:13:47,876\n行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢\n\n35\n00:13:49,296 --> 00:14:04,300\n這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJenniferNewman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫CyberTipLine的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍\n\n36\n00:14:18,363 --> 00:14:20,645\n數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊,我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。\n\n37\n00:14:31,364 --> 00:14:53,064\n從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的\n\n38\n00:14:55,465 --> 00:15:16,452\n來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能好我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了\n\n39\n00:15:21,394 --> 00:15:34,486\n可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象\n\n40\n00:15:35,694 --> 00:15:59,555\n大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說\n\n41\n00:16:02,233 --> 00:16:05,362\n我一直講突發不足以自省今天是在這裏\n\n42\n00:16:09,810 --> 00:16:36,644\n我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍\n\n43\n00:16:38,205 --> 00:16:55,758\n這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條\n\n44\n00:17:02,048 --> 00:17:28,428\n來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條,刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條3年以上,他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年10個月,緩刑5年\n\n45\n00:17:29,736 --> 00:17:48,786\n刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想會出來嗎?部長你想會出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月\n\n46\n00:17:49,926 --> 00:18:13,912\n我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊\n\n47\n00:18:15,852 --> 00:18:44,896\n量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量其主觀二線案客觀犯行有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道右拐未成年拍攝這一些要\n\n48\n00:18:45,356 --> 00:18:46,337\n10月14日的新聞\n\n49\n00:19:10,274 --> 00:19:24,901\n10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎我的資料怎麼不見判多久\n\n50\n00:19:43,233 --> 00:20:00,665\n一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼為什麼檢察官發生什麼事了法官發生什麼事了警察犯案事發生什麼事了而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎\n\n51\n00:20:11,857 --> 00:20:22,613\n在這裡你來跟人家說部長你不可以跟我說我沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關\n\n52\n00:20:24,465 --> 00:20:34,009\n全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到看1年10個月,每條都1年10個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛\n\n53\n00:20:47,739 --> 00:20:47,759\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8871\t20832\t主席,各位大家午安,是不是還是請我們薛部長。好,請薛部長。午安好。部長。\n23012\t45765\t我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他只有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性\n46485\t73723\t他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證\n76425\t76473\t主席。\n78954\t106106\t這個對無數的即便是成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件\n107850\t124652\t所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊\n126482\t131403\t所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像\n154489\t157690\t所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業\n179276\t194588\t讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎\n206735\t234700\t他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴\n237335\t244501\t點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範\n254423\t281983\t是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事\n283447\t311197\t然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪\n312509\t329708\t所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去\n330959\t357452\t我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態\n359175\t387333\t他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了\n388654\t415296\t這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我\n416397\t427619\t然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道\n446524\t468370\t遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的\n469210\t497480\t性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去\n499013\t513693\t這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種\n516376\t543445\t有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪聊的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說\n545171\t571550\t其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理\n581451\t591493\t那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成\n606482\t616027\t目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子\n617762\t640541\t你主理們所說 你說你沒有辦法管 那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會 其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了 那我問你說具體要怎麼管\n641397\t653303\t那我現在在告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、遛兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件\n664810\t686471\t增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸!對啊!影像式的性剝削啊!啊那怎麼辦?\n687751\t704821\t啊這我們就是現在其實有幾位委員在問的時候大概我們的方向不是只有加重土法不足以自行我現在再告訴你啦你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防制條例的量刑低起訴率也低\n706687\t715794\t例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部\n728936\t746724\t你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多?\n752711\t762058\t報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說人家問你你知道黃子嬌是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎\n772845\t779509\t包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦\n801561\t827876\t行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢\n829296\t844300\t這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJennifer Newman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫Cyber Tip Line的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍\n858363\t860645\t數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊,我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。\n871364\t893064\t從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的\n895465\t916452\t來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能好我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了\n921394\t934486\t可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象\n935694\t959555\t大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說\n962233\t965362\t我一直講突發不足以自省今天是在這裏\n969810\t996644\t我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍\n998205\t1015758\t這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條\n1022048\t1048428\t來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條,刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條3年以上,他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年10個月,緩刑5年\n1049736\t1068786\t刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想會出來嗎?部長你想會出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月\n1069926\t1093912\t我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊\n1095852\t1124896\t量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量其主觀二線案客觀犯行有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道右拐未成年拍攝這一些要\n1125356\t1126337\t10月14日的新聞\n1150274\t1164901\t10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎我的資料怎麼不見判多久\n1183233\t1200665\t一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼為什麼檢察官發生什麼事了法官發生什麼事了警察犯案事發生什麼事了而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎\n1211857\t1222613\t在這裡你來跟人家說部長你不可以跟我說我沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關\n1224465\t1234009\t全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到看1年10個月,每條都1年10個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛\n1247739\t1247759\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席,各位大家午安,是不是還是請我們薛部長。好,請薛部長。午安好。部長。\n我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他只有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性\n他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證\n主席。\n這個對無數的即便是成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件\n所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊\n所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像\n所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業\n讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎\n他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴\n點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範\n是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事\n然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪\n所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去\n我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態\n他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了\n這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我\n然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道\n遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的\n性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去\n這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種\n有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪聊的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說\n其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理\n那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成\n目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子\n你主理們所說 你說你沒有辦法管 那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會 其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了 那我問你說具體要怎麼管\n那我現在在告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、遛兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件\n增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸!對啊!影像式的性剝削啊!啊那怎麼辦?\n啊這我們就是現在其實有幾位委員在問的時候大概我們的方向不是只有加重土法不足以自行我現在再告訴你啦你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防制條例的量刑低起訴率也低\n例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部\n你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多?\n報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說人家問你你知道黃子嬌是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎\n包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦\n行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢\n這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJennifer Newman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫Cyber Tip Line的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍\n數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊,我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。\n從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的\n來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能好我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了\n可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象\n大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說\n我一直講突發不足以自省今天是在這裏\n我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍\n這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條\n來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條,刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條3年以上,他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年10個月,緩刑5年\n刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想會出來嗎?部長你想會出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月\n我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊\n量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量其主觀二線案客觀犯行有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道右拐未成年拍攝這一些要\n10月14日的新聞\n10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎我的資料怎麼不見判多久\n一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼為什麼檢察官發生什麼事了法官發生什麼事了警察犯案事發生什麼事了而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎\n在這裡你來跟人家說部長你不可以跟我說我沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關\n全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到看1年10個月,每條都1年10個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.871 --> 00:20.832\n主席,各位大家午安,是不是還是請我們薛部長。好,請薛部長。午安好。部長。\n\n00:23.012 --> 00:45.765\n我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他只有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性\n\n00:46.485 --> 01:13.723\n他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證\n\n01:16.425 --> 01:16.473\n主席。\n\n01:18.954 --> 01:46.106\n這個對無數的即便是成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件\n\n01:47.850 --> 02:04.652\n所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊\n\n02:06.482 --> 02:11.403\n所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像\n\n02:34.489 --> 02:37.690\n所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業\n\n02:59.276 --> 03:14.588\n讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎\n\n03:26.735 --> 03:54.700\n他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴\n\n03:57.335 --> 04:04.501\n點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範\n\n04:14.423 --> 04:41.983\n是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事\n\n04:43.447 --> 05:11.197\n然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪\n\n05:12.509 --> 05:29.708\n所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去\n\n05:30.959 --> 05:57.452\n我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態\n\n05:59.175 --> 06:27.333\n他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了\n\n06:28.654 --> 06:55.296\n這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我\n\n06:56.397 --> 07:07.619\n然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道\n\n07:26.524 --> 07:48.370\n遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的\n\n07:49.210 --> 08:17.480\n性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去\n\n08:19.013 --> 08:33.693\n這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種\n\n08:36.376 --> 09:03.445\n有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪聊的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說\n\n09:05.171 --> 09:31.550\n其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理\n\n09:41.451 --> 09:51.493\n那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成\n\n10:06.482 --> 10:16.027\n目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子\n\n10:17.762 --> 10:40.541\n你主理們所說你說你沒有辦法管那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了那我問你說具體要怎麼管\n\n10:41.397 --> 10:53.303\n那我現在在告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、遛兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件\n\n11:04.810 --> 11:26.471\n增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸!對啊!影像式的性剝削啊!啊那怎麼辦?\n\n11:27.751 --> 11:44.821\n啊這我們就是現在其實有幾位委員在問的時候大概我們的方向不是只有加重土法不足以自行我現在再告訴你啦你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防制條例的量刑低起訴率也低\n\n11:46.687 --> 11:55.794\n例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部\n\n12:08.936 --> 12:26.724\n你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多?\n\n12:32.711 --> 12:42.058\n報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說人家問你你知道黃子嬌是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎\n\n12:52.845 --> 12:59.509\n包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦\n\n13:21.561 --> 13:47.876\n行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢\n\n13:49.296 --> 14:04.300\n這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJenniferNewman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫CyberTipLine的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍\n\n14:18.363 --> 14:20.645\n數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊,我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。\n\n14:31.364 --> 14:53.064\n從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的\n\n14:55.465 --> 15:16.452\n來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能好我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了\n\n15:21.394 --> 15:34.486\n可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象\n\n15:35.694 --> 15:59.555\n大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說\n\n16:02.233 --> 16:05.362\n我一直講突發不足以自省今天是在這裏\n\n16:09.810 --> 16:36.644\n我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍\n\n16:38.205 --> 16:55.758\n這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條\n\n17:02.048 --> 17:28.428\n來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條,刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條3年以上,他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年10個月,緩刑5年\n\n17:29.736 --> 17:48.786\n刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想會出來嗎?部長你想會出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月\n\n17:49.926 --> 18:13.912\n我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊\n\n18:15.852 --> 18:44.896\n量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量其主觀二線案客觀犯行有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道右拐未成年拍攝這一些要\n\n18:45.356 --> 18:46.337\n10月14日的新聞\n\n19:10.274 --> 19:24.901\n10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎我的資料怎麼不見判多久\n\n19:43.233 --> 20:00.665\n一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼為什麼檢察官發生什麼事了法官發生什麼事了警察犯案事發生什麼事了而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎\n\n20:11.857 --> 20:22.613\n在這裡你來跟人家說部長你不可以跟我說我沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關\n\n20:24.465 --> 20:34.009\n全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到看1年10個月,每條都1年10個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛\n\n20:47.739 --> 20:47.759\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.871,"end":20.832,"text":"主席,各位大家午安,是不是還是請我們薛部長。好,請薛部長。午安好。部長。"},{"start":23.012,"end":45.765,"text":"我們今天要來這裡先要再一次的強調這個黃子佼去購買影片的來源這個創意私房他本身就是一個性犯罪這個網站他網站的內容不是說他只有未成年這個性犯罪影像而已他包括成年的女性"},{"start":46.485,"end":73.723,"text":"他的網站的內容都是上廁所、更衣室、偷拍或者是很多感情生變前的前女友的不雅照、心愛片而且上標榜散傳者他是獨立開發拍攝而且還他們號稱我們網頁的特色是還會附上當事人女子的臉書和IG帳戶去佐證"},{"start":76.425,"end":76.473,"text":"主席。"},{"start":78.954,"end":106.106,"text":"這個對無數的即便是成年的女性、成年的受害者都是難以抹滅的恐懼和身心的殘害所以讓這些人每日中日惶惶不安啊生怕被指認甚至不敢出面控訴所以有的人也因為被公佈了IG案、臉書案、學校所以持續被跟蹤騷擾甚至更進一步的衍生了這個性侵害的犯罪的案件"},{"start":107.85,"end":124.652,"text":"所以在黃子嬌事件大家報導都只看到她吃了七部未成年這個兒童的性犯罪影像我們還要再看到這一點整個創意司法整個論壇都是以不是性產業是性犯罪產業網站啊"},{"start":126.482,"end":131.403,"text":"所以你今天還在講說這個到底法規法規上就從法規上去給它停亡這樣子會不會引起爭議啊我們講他是犯罪行為他很標準那我們今天在這裡還有人以為說看一下A片沒什麼可是在這裡我再講一次這一個論壇這一個網站它就不是A片都是非法的非自願性的私密影像"},{"start":154.489,"end":157.69,"text":"所以把自己病態的需求這些會員不管去拍攝或是去看的都是把自己病態的需求建立在一種犯罪基礎上讓持有的人他很爽可是侵犯他人的隱私和痛苦而且還經營這一類喪心病狂的產業"},{"start":179.276,"end":194.588,"text":"讓更多的女性和兒少的受害人在那裡受害所以他是加害者助長性犯罪產業的共犯而且這個論壇還有一個特色是什麼特色你知道嗎可以點菜可以出任務你知道嗎他們要點菜點餐出任務你知道嗎"},{"start":206.735,"end":234.7,"text":"他把被愛人的臉書IG公開他還給點菜點菜說你想看哪一類型的性犯罪影像我們會有人去出任務所以你這個會員裡面有人點菜出任務所以他就你是會員大家付錢付錢請人去做性犯罪影像然後到時候還起訴"},{"start":237.335,"end":244.501,"text":"點菜的人是主使?還是只是持有影片?還是只是觀看者?這個點菜的會員他有可能變成是一個教授範"},{"start":254.423,"end":281.983,"text":"是教唆指使啊沒錯啊所以我們今天在這裡非常嚴肅的來講說這一類的犯罪你給他還起訴或寄現有的法規寄現有的法律你還擔心說這會不會被訴怨這個會不會行政處分上給他聽完會不會強制聽完會不會引起什麼爭議我告訴你遠遠的不會他們是犯罪集團做犯罪的事"},{"start":283.447,"end":311.197,"text":"然後在這裡呢你對一個有這麼大的社會的聲量還有財富資源的人來講給他還起訴你讓人家怎麼可以接受啊他會員他是一個性犯罪產業的有可能提供金援的共犯如果他還點菜有人幫他出任務他就叫說指使者叫說指使性犯罪"},{"start":312.509,"end":329.708,"text":"所以地檢署在上個禮拜回應了說我們還起訴還講到一點叫做兼顧保障受害少女不用再出庭承受二度傷害才讓黃子椒還起訴而不是縱放被告我們聽不下去"},{"start":330.959,"end":357.452,"text":"我們聽不下去所以臺北地檢署這樣的做法是不是單一個案我今天等一下再來討論我現在就叫你我們現在不要就看你們自己衛福部今天提供的數字被害人的這個被害的趨勢他的特點是什麼包含他們的年紀和性剝削的樣態"},{"start":359.175,"end":387.333,"text":"他們的特點是什麼?他們的趨勢,被害的趨勢是怎麼樣?被害的趨勢喔?大概是,主要是影像的這個部分啦不是啦,就年齡啊,性剝削的樣態年齡的話可能有一點是趨向在10出頭歲這樣子到國小啦已經是12到18歲為大中啦已經到國小了"},{"start":388.654,"end":415.296,"text":"這個是受害者然後性勒索成心形態不分性別我們當然以為說我剛剛講喔你剛剛講你想想看喔剛才那個點菜出任務出任務的方式有的時候去釣魚釣魚式的出任務一種是在網路上網戀然後呢你要拍照片給我拍影像給我"},{"start":416.397,"end":427.619,"text":"然後他把它拍的然後上傳到網站上去也有釣魚式的但是呢還有一種是這個是性犯罪產業還有一種是詐騙產業詐騙集團呢這裡有一個叫趙亦凡的他可能是一個教育領域的或是心理諮商領域的他講說啊手遊裡的或遊戲裡的性剝削很嚴重你知道"},{"start":446.524,"end":468.37,"text":"遊戲傳說對決裡面世界聊天室的訊息截圖可以看到遊戲正在進行旁邊的聊天室嘛聊天室有各種各式各樣的聊天室他說他每一款遊戲都有一樣的狀況他可以連線可以傳遞訊息可以聊天然後這裡面的"},{"start":469.21,"end":497.48,"text":"性剝削分成五種狀況他說第一種是對價物品的交換利誘小孩子小孩子很容易受騙另外一種聊天室還有一個叫做情侶聊天室情侶系統剛好滿足小孩子在情感上的需求在青春期的好奇所以很多人會很多男生受到女生傳的私密照然後男生可以把自己的私密照再傳出去"},{"start":499.013,"end":513.693,"text":"這些照到底是大人誘騙釣魚誘騙還是真實的你的對象是什麼都不知道還有一種聊天室是每天在那裡有性需求的邀請你想不想想愛愛聊色色的邀請然後在遊戲裡面還有這種"},{"start":516.376,"end":543.445,"text":"有排位有組隊的手遊有這種文化就是陪打陪玩系統讓能力低的要提升你的能力階級提升你的階級所以要強的去帶弱的在遊戲裡面啦所以陪玩陪聊的越多然後加害者用變聲器去接近孩子建立信任然後就開始進一步的邀約實體陪玩等等還有一種是公會組織系統我今天要講這個是說"},{"start":545.171,"end":571.55,"text":"其實在遊戲裡面有沒有具體認識這一些人我們都不知道裡面的誘拐很多遊戲有沒有人在管理保定遊戲聊天室裡面的網工網婆制度有沒有人在管理遊戲裡面經常說你要不要想愛愛想色色進來聊天的邀請有沒有人在管理"},{"start":581.451,"end":591.493,"text":"那誰要管?我們的孩子每天都在陷阱裡面你今天說你沒有能力管雙手一擔說你沒有能力管那我們的小孩誰要保護他們?然後到時候就勒索來了在這個裡面呢照片集團也在裡面性犯罪產業也在裡面每個人都把小孩當成"},{"start":606.482,"end":616.027,"text":"目標每個人都在裡面要來這個釣魚然後每個人到時候就進行勒索然後每個人都要剝削這些孩子"},{"start":617.762,"end":640.541,"text":"你主理們所說 你說你沒有辦法管 那我們小孩子怎麼辦啊我們是沒有能力、工具、方法去管那你告訴我合理的工具和能力是應該怎麼管委員應該知道今天出席的部會裡面有人我今天知道出席的部會 其他部會的層級都很低啊低到這麼低我都不曉得要問誰了 那我問你說具體要怎麼管"},{"start":641.397,"end":653.303,"text":"那我現在在告訴你說你們明明知道以去年為例這些性剝削、遛兒童製造這個拍攝已經達到2903件而去年的然後前年的還1971件到一年大幅成長1000件"},{"start":664.81,"end":686.471,"text":"增加了三四十%的受害!受害!受害啊!一年增加一千件,增加三成欸!以上欸!對啊!影像式的性剝削啊!啊那怎麼辦?"},{"start":687.751,"end":704.821,"text":"啊這我們就是現在其實有幾位委員在問的時候大概我們的方向不是只有加重土法不足以自行我現在再告訴你啦你知道違反兒童兒少性剝削防制條例的量刑低起訴率也低"},{"start":706.687,"end":715.794,"text":"例年來違反兒少性剝削防制條例的案件通常以不起訴及緩起訴居多差不多有65.2%的比例欸是不是65%欸來來法務部"},{"start":728.936,"end":746.724,"text":"你說法務部比較清楚,你不能不知道欸!你們是兒少這個防制性剝削的主管機關欸!雖然是法務部的責任,但你們不能不知道啊!保定!知道可以知道啊!那我再問你說到底是比例有多高?副市長你也說一下!還起訴或者不起訴的居多?"},{"start":752.711,"end":762.058,"text":"報告委員因為那個兒少性剝削防治條例的那個犯罪類型太陽很多那相關的統計數據我們可以回去再統計你今天來這裡報告來問你說人家問你你知道黃子嬌是還起訴大家對還起訴都很有意見然後你就來這裡備選你什麼資料都沒有準備你也敢來嗎是因為你的成績太低嗎"},{"start":772.845,"end":779.509,"text":"包括委員我們有準備跟就是這個案件相關的資料那你念一下給我聽跟這個相關我剛剛問的問題相關的資料你你沒有準備到我問的問題那你準備了什麼念給我聽一下我們主要準備的就是針對這個今天則這個專題的報告要來說明就是法制面上的部分到底有一些怎麼樣去防治這個數位麥克共法制面法制面連數據都沒有準備你們這樣在這裡準備是虛擬偽疑聊杯葛啦"},{"start":801.561,"end":827.876,"text":"行事局從2014年跟美國一個NGO叫美國國家失蹤及受剝削兒童中心建立窗口透過美方資料互換通報機制突破因為網路匿名和加密科技導致長久以來警方偵辦性剝削案件的困難的因素就讓它突破了可是呢"},{"start":829.296,"end":844.3,"text":"這個報導者報導跨國訪談這一個美國的這個NGO、NC、MEC的總監Jennifer那個NewmanJennifer Newman的時候他從全球兒童性剝削的通報系統叫Cyber Tip Line的統計中發現從2019年到2022年美方偵測兒少性剝削影像來自台灣的IP的通報數量成長2.3倍"},{"start":858.363,"end":860.645,"text":"數量多少你知道嗎?副組長。呃,謝謝委員。我想我們刑事局的同仁在這邊,我請他們回答吧。好,你都不知道,來這裡都沒好位。"},{"start":871.364,"end":893.064,"text":"從數量從IP來自台灣的數量從3萬變成7萬凸顯台灣性剝削影像在台灣氾濫的程度而這些資訊我們都知道你們會說偵查人力不足缺乏經費偵查辦案的專業能力不足但我們今天看這個是說我們偵查的能力還需要透過外國的"},{"start":895.465,"end":916.452,"text":"來幫助我們刑事局還需要外國的NGO透過台灣的NGO和中央主管機關通報這件事情就知道我們是多麼的無能好我今天在這裡最後因為主席站起來這麼久我在講最後為什麼土法不足以自刑我們今天加重刑責了還是有很大的問題啊因為像今天2012年成立這個創意私房2021年給它停網封網了"},{"start":921.394,"end":934.486,"text":"可是呢他把.net改成.com以後他還是繼續的在繼續經營我要講說今天創意私房這個個案就像是一個房間裡面的大象"},{"start":935.694,"end":959.555,"text":"大家都看到了但是就算被看到了我們要怎麼處理仍然沒有共識然後他一個月上次的經驗是一個月以後回歸一個月以後他如果再滿血回歸挑戰公權力我覺得我們是媽咪轉倒灰啦政府真的看衰這也不是沒有道理我要舉一個具體的例子就是說"},{"start":962.233,"end":965.362,"text":"我一直講突發不足以自省今天是在這裏"},{"start":969.81,"end":996.644,"text":"我這裡有一個個案你們黃子椒還起訴以外這是檢查機關他們動輒就是還起訴還起訴哪一個講的說是為了被害人好不用出庭那我今天再講一個彰化地方法院刑事判決他是一個大學生然後去網路上網戀然後叫一個未成年的女性呢要拍"},{"start":998.205,"end":1015.758,"text":"這個照片很閒失啦他很閒失啦然後呢這個判決在這裡來我們右拐右騙為成年兒童拍攝或是被拍或是自行拍攝這些影像他是用哪一條那個性剝削防治條例第幾條"},{"start":1022.048,"end":1048.428,"text":"來幾條?第幾條?你不知道喔?36條,刑度從幾年開始為什麼我說加重刑度?如果檢警審辦案的態度沒有改變的話,不好你看這個個案36條3年以上,他怎麼判你知道?他判多久你知道嗎?判了一年10個月,緩刑5年"},{"start":1049.736,"end":1068.786,"text":"刑度是三年以上的個案怎麼有可能判一年十個月呢?為什麼?市長你想會出來嗎?部長你想會出來嗎?各位委員你們想得出來本刑是三年以上他怎麼可以他怎麼可以變得判成一年十個月"},{"start":1069.926,"end":1093.912,"text":"我是沒有看到判決書他說這個三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得病科這個他說刑度不可謂不重啊然同為室內案件犯罪其原因動機不一啊犯罪情節亦未必相同其行為所造成的社會危害的程度亦有別上一期情狀啊"},{"start":1095.852,"end":1124.896,"text":"量以適度之刑責應足以呈警並且可達到防衛社會的目的自非不可考量其主觀二線案客觀犯行有無這個顯可憐憫之處所以我們用刑法第59條的規定著量減輕其刑其使個案裁判的量刑能斟酌至當符合比例原則我們都知道右拐未成年拍攝這一些要"},{"start":1125.356,"end":1126.337,"text":"10月14日的新聞"},{"start":1150.274,"end":1164.901,"text":"10月14日一個警察也是誘騙三個未成年他在別的網站上影像外洩然後警察知道了來找他警察叫他再拍一次然後上傳到論壇這個警察照這裡說這39條還是36條36條嗎36條結果這警察判多久你知道嗎我的資料怎麼不見判多久"},{"start":1183.233,"end":1200.665,"text":"一年十個月為什麼判一年十個月36條就三年以上他連起訴用36條的條文都沒有為什麼為什麼檢察官發生什麼事了法官發生什麼事了警察犯案事發生什麼事了而這種狀況你們都沒有認為說很奇怪嗎"},{"start":1211.857,"end":1222.613,"text":"在這裡你來跟人家說部長你不可以跟我說我沒辦法不可以說這不是我管的不可以這樣說你是主管機關你也要去會同相關"},{"start":1224.465,"end":1234.009,"text":"全精神看要如何處理,這案件要如何辦明明已經有分入36條的分入在那裏,我就辦到看1年10個月,每條都1年10個月每條都還起訴,大多數都還起訴,每條都還會減刑這樣對不對,難怪這些人敢這樣做嘛"},{"start":1247.739,"end":1247.759,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}}}