{"id":151140,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151140","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e3e6ee9633bbcecb1bd5be8c4a3d24463f8ba9b0039caa7a6071eed9bfd46deff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"11:16:13 - 11:27:49","影片長度":"00:11:36","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助、重建規劃及補助方式」及「從東華實驗室失火事件檢討災害防救之完備化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-11"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":696,"end_time":"2024-04-15T11:27:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T11:16:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1072,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（11時16分）謝謝主席。有請內政部長。"],["主席：有請林部長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：部長好。首先我想要請教一下，剛剛有幾位委員提到像這次4月3號的花蓮大地震，大家都非常的難過，但是有沒有必要訂定特別條例來針對這一次的災情呢？我覺得是要考慮的，所以我想要先請教一下，我們現在有沒有需要像921一樣，再特別訂定重建條例？還是按現行的法律就可以處理呢？"],["林部長右昌：委員，其實你剛剛已經提到重點，就是以我們現有的機制，還有相關的法律，甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的能量可以處理這次0403的災害？之前的兩次包括0206在內，其實災害也不小，不過也沒有訂特別的條例，所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考。"],["黃委員捷：好，我來補充一下好了，因為臺灣有災害防救法，過去其實都是從當初還在臺灣省時期的天然災害及善後處理辦法開始的，到了1999年的時候發生了921大地震，因為我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害，所以當時就緊急頒布了一個命令，然後制定九二一震災重建暫行條例。在921之後，立法院也馬上通過災害防救法，包括中央到地方要怎麼分工，災害應變中心指揮官要進行相關人力、物力的運用，然後還有災後的重建、復原的相關規定，其實也都陸陸續續在921之後一步一步慢慢修正過非常多次，讓它越來越完善，其實在目前的防救法裡面就已經把災害重建需要的相關法規都已經放進去了。","我來舉個例子：如果我現在貸款買了一間房，然後這間房可能已經全倒或是半倒了，那麼剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢？其實當時的921條款裡面就有排除銀行法相關的適用，金融機構可以承受這些房屋的貸款，針對這一條，其實從九二一特別條例之後，就被放進災害防救法第四十二條當中。我再舉個例子，當時九二一特別條例裡面有提到地震造成的地層移動，可能會造成之後地籍圖變動的問題，就是要怎麼樣重建等等，這樣的相關規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面？其實當時這個有它的歷史脈絡，當然救人救災是第一，重建的工作一定要非常的完善，只是到底有沒有需要為了這次的地震再訂一個特別條例呢？我想再次請教一下內政部部長，是不是目前所有的法規、所有的規定以及你們手上的工具，都已經是足夠的？"],["林部長右昌：是，目前為止我們都是足夠的，其實包括災民安置的部分都有相關的機制，甚至是包括我們的預算，因為地方政府跟中央政府都要編列災害準備金。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["林部長右昌：另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面，其實在921之後，在災害防救法裡面的立法有一些簡便的行政措施，這些都適用在這次0403的地震，這沒有問題。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。接著我想請教一下主計總處。"],["主席：請主計總處副主計長。"],["黃委員捷：因為大家有時會說這次的救災到底有沒有相關的預算？針對這些救災的補助，到底你們手上的資源是夠的嗎？可不可以跟大家說明一下，我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算進行相關的處理？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：謝謝委員，我在這邊跟大家報告，目前中央各部會都全力在籌措經費來進行救災跟重建，依照各部會盤點的結果，目前都是足夠的。"],["黃委員捷：當然在這邊要有一個很具體的承諾，不管是救災的工具、救災的法律、救災的預算，其實目前政府手頭上都能夠進行全力的救災工作對嗎？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是的。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝主計處，請回座。","再來想要繼續請教內政部，我們接下來要討論如何減少地震之後造成的傷亡，其實這一次大家有提出一個重點，因為臺灣真的就是在地震帶上面，所以會有一些近斷層的效應，甚至比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌，有可能發生這樣的事情。例如2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店、雲門翠堤大樓都是這樣子的狀況，而這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面，所以就是要讓大家知道在斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險，只是說到底要怎麼處理呢？其實現在臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條，甚至有22個就在斷層附近的區域，而且臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成活動斷層地質敏感區的。針對這些敏感區，目前地質法裡面有規定在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估，雖然有一些並沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層，但它還是有可能是高風險的狀態。我想問一下，針對這樣的事情，有沒有任何的對策？還有接下來針對這些高風險的開發帶，到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢？"],["林部長右昌：委員，謝謝您的指教。就我印象所及，其實在921之後有針對這些斷層地帶做了地質調查，至於在斷層線上，因為這要經過調查之後才能夠確認，我的印象應該是在斷層線上兩邊100公尺之內，會有相關建築的一些規範。至於細節部分，我請吳署長作進一步的說明。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，現行的規定就是除了都市計畫有劃斷層線以外，可能周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定的範圍。第二個，因為它是屬於活動斷層，所以這是一個示意性的作法，如果真是在這個周圍的話，他還必須出具地質鑽探的報告來確認它有沒有在斷層帶上，或者是他必須要強化建築基盤的結構，然後才有辦法送審，目前來講都有做這樣的規範。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝署長，其實我是想要請教，針對新版規範的建築物，因為有近斷層的效應，所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍外是安全的，這件事情要講清楚。然後在這個範圍內，是不是就是一定程度的禁限建，這可以再明確的讓大家知道。當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好，是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃，那可以再重新討論，但我認為安全第一，如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的，是不是還是要劃一個禁限建的範圍呢？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告，如果是活動斷層的話，它是依歷史上最大地震規模，然後在一定的範圍裡面去劃設，比如說大於規模七的話，那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺；如果規模在六到七的話，就是兩側各50公尺；規模六以下或者沒有紀錄的話，就是30公尺以內，這是現有的規範。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的說明。再來，在這個斷層範圍內的現有建築，是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式，讓民眾先知道如果他們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵，或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確，讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會，是不是有這樣的可能？如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離，是不是中央可以再進行一些補助，讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估？因為我認為這一些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊，是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震措施呢？就是現在在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為這也是在重建的過程當中，譬如說他要重建就可能會面臨到這類的問題……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["吳署長欣修：也就是除非它經過當時的地層鑽探，確定是屬於禁建的，因為有分禁建跟限建，若是禁建的部分，這部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的手段再重新做一個調整，因為有一些要確定是不是容移的話，我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一而去做這樣的規定。關於這個部分，我建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或是在細部計畫就可以做一些調整。"],["黃委員捷：好，如果有相關的案件，也希望署裡可以針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助，好嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我補充一句，如果容移要移出或者要接收的區域，是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定，所以我要做這個補充，並不是它想要移就可以移。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["黃委員捷：最後我再問一個問題，就是剛剛也有提到軟腳蝦的建築物，你們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點？這個可不可以請部裡認真的做一次評估？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們從108年做到110年，其實我們大概有盤點出來，就是從建築物的……"],["黃委員捷：所以你們手上都是有資料的？"],["吳署長欣修：結構圖都有，也分別都通知地方政府，請他們代為通知所有權人，希望他們正視自己的這個資料，因為這個是屬於個人財產，所以我們並沒有對外公布，也請他們努力來申請耐震補強以及初、詳評，讓他們瞭解自己的房屋狀況，以及未來修繕與補強的方向。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝署長，我就是希望這樣子而已，至少你們要做到通知，然後輔導。"],["林部長右昌：是，委員，我們有在做檢討，因為在這次大地震之後，我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料的建築物，我們再做一次通知，再提醒所有權人，希望他們能夠積極來做相關的評估跟調查。"],["黃委員捷：好，非常好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：非常謝謝黃捷委員的質詢，也謝謝部長、謝謝署長。","接著請李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-11","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張智倫","黃捷","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","丁學忠","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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10:28:44","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 10:29:17","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151140 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-01 10:29:17","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助'"},{"time":"2024-06-01 10:29:39","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-01 10:29:39","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 9.5, \"end\": 14.097, \"text\": \"好謝謝主席我們請內政部長我有請林部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 9.5, \"end\": 10.082, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 10.082, \"end\": 10.263, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 10.263, \"end\": 10.644, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 10.644, \"end\": 12.09, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, 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\"end\": 178.505, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 178.505, \"end\": 178.605, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 178.605, \"end\": 178.925, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 178.925, \"end\": 179.245, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 179.245, \"end\": 179.485, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 179.485, \"end\": 179.645, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 179.645, \"end\": 179.785, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 179.785, \"end\": 179.965, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 179.965, \"end\": 180.125, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 180.125, \"end\": 180.326, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 180.326, \"end\": 180.346, \"score\": 0.11}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 180.346, \"end\": 180.366, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 328.627, \"end\": 328.647, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 328.647, \"end\": 328.667, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 328.667, \"end\": 328.687, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 330.709, \"end\": 354.268, \"text\": \"所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 330.709, \"end\": 330.909, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 330.909, \"end\": 331.009, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 331.009, \"end\": 331.149, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 331.149, \"end\": 331.55, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 331.55, \"end\": 331.69, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 331.69, \"end\": 331.91, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 331.91, \"end\": 331.93, 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謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 442.686, \"end\": 442.846, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 442.846, \"end\": 442.986, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 442.986, \"end\": 443.106, \"score\": 0.536}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 443.106, \"end\": 444.907, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 444.907, \"end\": 445.207, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.207, \"end\": 445.707, \"score\": 0.601}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 445.707, \"end\": 445.987, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.987, \"end\": 446.868, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 446.868, \"end\": 447.008, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 447.008, 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\"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 498.774, \"end\": 498.794, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 498.794, \"end\": 498.834, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 498.834, \"end\": 498.974, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 498.974, \"end\": 499.154, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 499.154, \"end\": 499.555, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 499.555, \"end\": 499.675, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 499.675, \"end\": 499.755, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 499.755, \"end\": 499.815, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 499.815, \"end\": 500.015, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 500.015, \"end\": 500.195, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"尺\", \"start\": 500.195, \"end\": 500.335, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 500.335, \"end\": 500.355, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 500.355, \"end\": 500.555, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 500.555, \"end\": 501.336, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 501.336, \"end\": 501.476, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 501.476, \"end\": 501.496, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 515.647, \"end\": 536.632, \"text\": \"那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 515.647, \"end\": 515.847, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 515.847, \"end\": 516.067, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 516.067, \"end\": 516.327, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 516.327, \"end\": 516.587, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", 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\"探\", \"start\": 572.482, \"end\": 573.123, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 573.123, \"end\": 573.303, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 573.303, \"end\": 573.383, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 573.383, \"end\": 573.463, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 573.463, \"end\": 573.683, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 573.683, \"end\": 573.783, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 573.783, \"end\": 573.803, \"score\": 0.57}]}, {\"start\": 577.524, \"end\": 602.072, \"text\": \"因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 577.524, \"end\": 577.824, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 577.824, \"end\": 577.984, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 577.984, \"end\": 578.144, 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00:00:48,818\n謝謝委員好好部長好首先我想要請教一下因為剛剛其實也有幾位委員有提到說像這一次4月3號的花蓮大地震大家都非常的難過但是有沒有必要特別訂一個特別的條例來針對這一次的災情呢我覺得這個是要考慮的所以我想要先請教一下我們現在有沒有需要特別像921一樣再訂一個重建條例還是說我們現行的法律就可以處理呢\n\n3\n00:00:49,358 --> 00:01:14,407\n是委員記剛剛你已經提到這個重點就是我們現在有的機制還有相關的一個法律還有包括甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的一個能量可以處理這次0403的一個災害因為其實在之前包括兩次0206其實災害也不小不過也沒有訂特別的條例所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考\n\n4\n00:01:15,421 --> 00:01:43,037\n好我來補充一下好了其實因為我們台灣有災害防救法那過去其實都是從當初的才在台灣省的時期的天然災害跟善後處理辦法開始的那到1999年921的時候那時候發生了這個921大地震然後我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害所以當時候就是緊急頒布了一個命令然後來制定了921震災的重建戰型條例\n\n5\n00:01:43,797 --> 00:02:09,098\n可是在這個921之後我們立法院也馬上通過災害的防救法包括說中央到地方要怎麼分工然後災害應變中心的指揮官要進行相關的人力物力的運用然後還有災害的重建復原的相關的規定其實也都陸陸續續就921之後慢慢的一步一步的來修正過非常多次然後也讓它越來的越完善然後我們現在這個\n\n6\n00:02:10,299 --> 00:02:35,799\n其實防救法裡面就已經把相關的災害重建需要的法規其實都已經放進去了那我來舉個例子就是說我現在如果貸款買了一間房然後這間房它可能已經全倒或是半倒了那結果剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢其實當時的921條款裡面就有說排除銀行法的相關的適用然後金融機構它可以承受這些房屋的抵押的貸款\n\n7\n00:02:37,100 --> 00:03:00,606\n那這一條其實後來呢從那個921的特別條例之後就被放進了災害的防救法裡面的42條那再例如我再舉個例子當時921的這個特別條例裡面有提到說地震造成的地層的移動可能會造成之後地級圖變動的問題就是要怎麼樣重建等等那這樣的相關的規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面\n\n8\n00:03:02,486 --> 00:03:26,089\n所以其實當時的這個有它的歷史脈絡所以我認為說當然救人救災是第一重建的工作一定要非常的完善只是說到底有沒有需要為了這一次的地震再訂一個特別的條例呢那我再次的請教一下我們內政部長是不是目前所有的法規所有的規定以及你們手上的工具都已經是足夠的\n\n9\n00:03:26,975 --> 00:03:42,954\n目前為止我們都是足夠的其實包括這個災民的一個安置的部分其實都有相關的一個機制甚至是包括我們的預算因為在後來我們每地方政府跟中央政府我們都要編災害的準備金沒錯\n\n10\n00:03:43,735 --> 00:04:01,088\n那另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面其實在921之後呢也在災害防救法裡面立法有一些簡便的行政的措施所以這個都適用在這一次0403的一個地震好謝謝部長那我也請教一下主計處好不好主計處謝謝\n\n11\n00:04:07,796 --> 00:04:24,122\n因為大家也在說這一次的這個救災到底我們相關的預算然後這些救災的補助到底你們手上的這些資源是夠的嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算來進行相關的處理是謝謝委員那我\n\n12\n00:04:25,142 --> 00:04:53,448\n在這邊跟大家報告就是說目前我們中央各部會都全力的在這個籌措計費來進行災救災跟重建那目前為止依照各部會盤點的結果目前都是足夠的好那當然在這邊有一個很具體的承諾不管是救災的工具救災的法律救災的預算其實目前手頭上我們政府都能夠來做全力的救災工作對嗎\n\n13\n00:04:54,588 --> 00:05:13,194\n是的好謝謝主計處可以請回座那再來我繼續請教我們內政部因為其實我們接下來要討論就是如何要減少地震之後造成的傷亡那其實這一次大家有提出一個重點就是說因為其實台灣真的就是在地震帶上面然後會有一些進段層的效應\n\n14\n00:05:14,694 --> 00:05:28,687\n然後甚至是比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌有可能發生這樣的事情例如說2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店雲門湊提大樓都是這樣子的狀況那這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面\n\n15\n00:05:30,709 --> 00:05:54,268\n所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的\n\n16\n00:05:55,049 --> 00:06:20,368\n那這些敏感區目前地質法裡面有規定說我們在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估但是有一些是沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層但是它還是有可能是高風險的狀態我想問一下我們針對這樣的事情有沒有任何的對策還有接下來這些高風險的開發帶到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢\n\n17\n00:06:22,066 --> 00:06:38,813\n委員謝謝你的指教我印象所及其實在921之後這個有針對這些斷層地帶其實做了地質的一個調查那在這個斷層線上因為這個要非常的這個經過調查之後才能夠確認我印象應該是斷層線上的兩邊應該是100公尺應該是100公尺之內它會有做相關建築的一些規範至於細節的部分我請吳署長做進一步說明\n\n18\n00:06:52,894 --> 00:07:18,544\n感謝委員現在現行的規定是這樣就是除了你的都市計劃有劃了這個斷層線以外那它可能就是周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定一個範圍那第二個就是說因為它是屬於活動斷層所以我們這個是一個適宜性的做法你真是在這個周圍的話它必須還要出具這個地址專探的一個報告來確認它有沒有在這個斷層帶上那或者是它必須應該要\n\n19\n00:07:22,686 --> 00:07:51,318\n強化它的建築基層的結構、基盤的結構才能辦法送神我想這是在目前來講都有做這樣的一個規範好謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道\n\n20\n00:07:51,658 --> 00:08:05,264\n那當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃那可以再重新討論嗎但我認為安全第一如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的是不是還是要劃一個進縣間的範圍呢委員會跟你報告\n\n21\n00:08:07,966 --> 00:08:21,496\n這個如果是活動斷層的話它是歷史上最大地震規模然後在一定的範圍內裡面去做劃設比如說大於這個規模7的話那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺那斷層規模在6到7的話就是兩側各50公尺斷層6以下的或者沒有紀錄的話是30公尺以內好謝謝部長的說明\n\n22\n00:08:35,647 --> 00:08:56,632\n那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會\n\n23\n00:08:57,472 --> 00:09:15,789\n是不是有這樣的可能那如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離是不是中央可以再進行一些補助讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估因為我認為這些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊那是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震的措施呢\n\n24\n00:09:19,738 --> 00:09:33,803\n就是說現在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦跟委員報告其實因為這也是在重建的過程當中就比如說他要重建或他可能會面臨到這類的問題也就是說除非他就是確認經過當時的這一個地層鑽探確定他是屬於進建的\n\n25\n00:09:37,524 --> 00:10:02,072\n因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整\n\n26\n00:10:02,452 --> 00:10:24,345\n好那如果有相關的案件也希望我們署理可以就是針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助好嗎我要補充一句這個如果要容移要移出或者要接收的這個區域是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定所以要做這個補充並不是說他想要移就可以移\n\n27\n00:10:25,245 --> 00:10:36,540\n好謝謝部長那最後我再問一個問題就是剛剛也有提到這個軟腳沙的建築我們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點這個可不可以請部裡來認真的做一次評估啊\n\n28\n00:10:38,553 --> 00:11:01,532\n跟委員報告其實我們從108年做到110年其實我們大概有盤點出來就是說從建築的結構圖都有那也分別都通知地方政府請他們代為通知所有全人希望他們正視自己的這個資料那因為這個是屬於個人財產所以我們並沒有對外公佈也請他們努力來申請這個內政補強還有出箱品\n\n29\n00:11:05,255 --> 00:11:13,989\n讓他們了解自己房屋的狀況跟未來修繕還有補強的一個方向好謝謝署長我就是希望這樣子而已就是至少你們要做到通知然後輔導\n\n30\n00:11:14,921 --> 00:11:34,596\n是委員那個我想我們有在做檢討就是因為這一次這個大地震之後我想我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料這些建築物我們再做一次通知再提醒所有全能希望他們能夠積極的來做相關的一個評估跟調查好非常好謝謝部長好非常謝謝環節委員的質詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9500\t14097\t好謝謝主席我們請內政部長我有請林部長\n19682\t48818\t謝謝委員好好 部長好首先我想要請教一下因為剛剛其實也有幾位委員有提到說像這一次4月3號的花蓮大地震大家都非常的難過但是有沒有必要特別訂一個特別的條例來針對這一次的災情呢我覺得這個是要考慮的所以我想要先請教一下我們現在有沒有需要特別像921一樣再訂一個重建條例還是說我們現行的法律就可以處理呢\n49358\t74407\t是委員記剛剛你已經提到這個重點就是我們現在有的機制還有相關的一個法律還有包括甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的一個能量可以處理這次0403的一個災害因為其實在之前包括兩次0206其實災害也不小不過也沒有訂特別的條例所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考\n75421\t103037\t好我來補充一下好了其實因為我們台灣有災害防救法那過去其實都是從當初的才在台灣省的時期的天然災害跟善後處理辦法開始的那到1999年921的時候那時候發生了這個921大地震然後我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害所以當時候就是緊急頒布了一個命令然後來制定了921震災的重建戰型條例\n103797\t129098\t可是在這個921之後我們立法院也馬上通過災害的防救法包括說中央到地方要怎麼分工然後災害應變中心的指揮官要進行相關的人力物力的運用然後還有災害的重建復原的相關的規定其實也都陸陸續續就921之後慢慢的一步一步的來修正過非常多次然後也讓它越來的越完善然後我們現在這個\n130299\t155799\t其實防救法裡面就已經把相關的災害重建需要的法規其實都已經放進去了那我來舉個例子就是說我現在如果貸款買了一間房然後這間房它可能已經全倒或是半倒了那結果剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢其實當時的921條款裡面就有說排除銀行法的相關的適用然後金融機構它可以承受這些房屋的抵押的貸款\n157100\t180606\t那這一條其實後來呢從那個921的特別條例之後就被放進了災害的防救法裡面的42條那再例如我再舉個例子當時921的這個特別條例裡面有提到說地震造成的地層的移動可能會造成之後地級圖變動的問題就是要怎麼樣重建等等那這樣的相關的規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面\n182486\t206089\t所以其實當時的這個有它的歷史脈絡所以我認為說當然救人救災是第一重建的工作一定要非常的完善只是說到底有沒有需要為了這一次的地震再訂一個特別的條例呢那我再次的請教一下我們內政部長是不是目前所有的法規所有的規定以及你們手上的工具都已經是足夠的\n206975\t222954\t目前為止我們都是足夠的其實包括這個災民的一個安置的部分其實都有相關的一個機制甚至是包括我們的預算因為在後來我們每地方政府跟中央政府我們都要編災害的準備金沒錯\n223735\t241088\t那另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面其實在921之後呢也在災害防救法裡面立法有一些簡便的行政的措施所以這個都適用在這一次0403的一個地震好 謝謝部長那我也請教一下主計處好不好主計處 謝謝\n247796\t264122\t因為大家也在說這一次的這個救災到底我們相關的預算然後這些救災的補助到底你們手上的這些資源是夠的嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算來進行相關的處理是謝謝委員那我\n265142\t293448\t在這邊跟大家報告就是說目前我們中央各部會都全力的在這個籌措計費來進行災救災跟重建那目前為止依照各部會盤點的結果目前都是足夠的好那當然在這邊有一個很具體的承諾不管是救災的工具救災的法律救災的預算其實目前手頭上我們政府都能夠來做全力的救災工作對嗎\n294588\t313194\t是的好謝謝主計處可以請回座那再來我繼續請教我們內政部因為其實我們接下來要討論就是如何要減少地震之後造成的傷亡那其實這一次大家有提出一個重點就是說因為其實台灣真的就是在地震帶上面然後會有一些進段層的效應\n314694\t328687\t然後甚至是比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌有可能發生這樣的事情例如說2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店雲門湊提大樓都是這樣子的狀況那這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面\n330709\t354268\t所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的\n355049\t380368\t那這些敏感區目前地質法裡面有規定說我們在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估但是有一些是沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層但是它還是有可能是高風險的狀態我想問一下我們針對這樣的事情有沒有任何的對策還有接下來這些高風險的開發帶到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢\n382066\t398813\t委員謝謝你的指教我印象所及其實在921之後這個有針對這些斷層地帶其實做了地質的一個調查那在這個斷層線上因為這個要非常的這個經過調查之後才能夠確認我印象應該是斷層線上的兩邊應該是100公尺應該是100公尺之內它會有做相關建築的一些規範至於細節的部分我請吳署長做進一步說明\n412894\t438544\t感謝委員現在現行的規定是這樣就是除了你的都市計劃有劃了這個斷層線以外那它可能就是周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定一個範圍那第二個就是說因為它是屬於活動斷層所以我們這個是一個適宜性的做法你真是在這個周圍的話它必須還要出具這個地址專探的一個報告來確認它有沒有在這個斷層帶上那或者是它必須應該要\n442686\t471318\t強化它的建築基層的結構、基盤的結構才能辦法送神我想這是在目前來講都有做這樣的一個規範好 謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道\n471658\t485264\t那當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃那可以再重新討論嗎但我認為安全第一如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的是不是還是要劃一個進縣間的範圍呢委員會跟你報告\n487966\t501496\t這個如果是活動斷層的話它是歷史上最大地震規模然後在一定的範圍內裡面去做劃設比如說大於這個規模7的話那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺那斷層規模在6到7的話就是兩側各50公尺斷層6以下的或者沒有紀錄的話是30公尺以內好 謝謝部長的說明\n515647\t536632\t那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會\n537472\t555789\t是不是有這樣的可能那如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離是不是中央可以再進行一些補助讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估因為我認為這些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊那是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震的措施呢\n559738\t573803\t就是說現在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦跟委員報告其實因為這也是在重建的過程當中就比如說他要重建或他可能會面臨到這類的問題也就是說除非他就是確認經過當時的這一個地層鑽探確定他是屬於進建的\n577524\t602072\t因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整\n602452\t624345\t好 那如果有相關的案件也希望我們署理可以就是針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助好嗎我要補充一句這個如果要容移要移出或者要接收的這個區域是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定所以要做這個補充並不是說他想要移就可以移\n625245\t636540\t好 謝謝部長那最後我再問一個問題就是剛剛也有提到這個軟腳沙的建築我們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點這個可不可以請部裡來認真的做一次評估啊\n638553\t661532\t跟委員報告其實我們從108年做到110年其實我們大概有盤點出來就是說從建築的結構圖都有那也分別都通知地方政府請他們代為通知所有全人希望他們正視自己的這個資料那因為這個是屬於個人財產所以我們並沒有對外公佈也請他們努力來申請這個內政補強還有出箱品\n665255\t673989\t讓他們了解自己房屋的狀況跟未來修繕還有補強的一個方向好 謝謝署長我就是希望這樣子而已就是至少你們要做到通知然後輔導\n674921\t694596\t是委員那個我想我們有在做檢討就是因為這一次這個大地震之後我想我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料這些建築物我們再做一次通知再提醒所有全能希望他們能夠積極的來做相關的一個評估跟調查好非常好謝謝部長好非常謝謝環節委員的質詢謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請內政部長我有請林部長\n謝謝委員好好 部長好首先我想要請教一下因為剛剛其實也有幾位委員有提到說像這一次4月3號的花蓮大地震大家都非常的難過但是有沒有必要特別訂一個特別的條例來針對這一次的災情呢我覺得這個是要考慮的所以我想要先請教一下我們現在有沒有需要特別像921一樣再訂一個重建條例還是說我們現行的法律就可以處理呢\n是委員記剛剛你已經提到這個重點就是我們現在有的機制還有相關的一個法律還有包括甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的一個能量可以處理這次0403的一個災害因為其實在之前包括兩次0206其實災害也不小不過也沒有訂特別的條例所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考\n好我來補充一下好了其實因為我們台灣有災害防救法那過去其實都是從當初的才在台灣省的時期的天然災害跟善後處理辦法開始的那到1999年921的時候那時候發生了這個921大地震然後我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害所以當時候就是緊急頒布了一個命令然後來制定了921震災的重建戰型條例\n可是在這個921之後我們立法院也馬上通過災害的防救法包括說中央到地方要怎麼分工然後災害應變中心的指揮官要進行相關的人力物力的運用然後還有災害的重建復原的相關的規定其實也都陸陸續續就921之後慢慢的一步一步的來修正過非常多次然後也讓它越來的越完善然後我們現在這個\n其實防救法裡面就已經把相關的災害重建需要的法規其實都已經放進去了那我來舉個例子就是說我現在如果貸款買了一間房然後這間房它可能已經全倒或是半倒了那結果剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢其實當時的921條款裡面就有說排除銀行法的相關的適用然後金融機構它可以承受這些房屋的抵押的貸款\n那這一條其實後來呢從那個921的特別條例之後就被放進了災害的防救法裡面的42條那再例如我再舉個例子當時921的這個特別條例裡面有提到說地震造成的地層的移動可能會造成之後地級圖變動的問題就是要怎麼樣重建等等那這樣的相關的規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面\n所以其實當時的這個有它的歷史脈絡所以我認為說當然救人救災是第一重建的工作一定要非常的完善只是說到底有沒有需要為了這一次的地震再訂一個特別的條例呢那我再次的請教一下我們內政部長是不是目前所有的法規所有的規定以及你們手上的工具都已經是足夠的\n目前為止我們都是足夠的其實包括這個災民的一個安置的部分其實都有相關的一個機制甚至是包括我們的預算因為在後來我們每地方政府跟中央政府我們都要編災害的準備金沒錯\n那另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面其實在921之後呢也在災害防救法裡面立法有一些簡便的行政的措施所以這個都適用在這一次0403的一個地震好 謝謝部長那我也請教一下主計處好不好主計處 謝謝\n因為大家也在說這一次的這個救災到底我們相關的預算然後這些救災的補助到底你們手上的這些資源是夠的嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算來進行相關的處理是謝謝委員那我\n在這邊跟大家報告就是說目前我們中央各部會都全力的在這個籌措計費來進行災救災跟重建那目前為止依照各部會盤點的結果目前都是足夠的好那當然在這邊有一個很具體的承諾不管是救災的工具救災的法律救災的預算其實目前手頭上我們政府都能夠來做全力的救災工作對嗎\n是的好謝謝主計處可以請回座那再來我繼續請教我們內政部因為其實我們接下來要討論就是如何要減少地震之後造成的傷亡那其實這一次大家有提出一個重點就是說因為其實台灣真的就是在地震帶上面然後會有一些進段層的效應\n然後甚至是比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌有可能發生這樣的事情例如說2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店雲門湊提大樓都是這樣子的狀況那這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面\n所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的\n那這些敏感區目前地質法裡面有規定說我們在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估但是有一些是沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層但是它還是有可能是高風險的狀態我想問一下我們針對這樣的事情有沒有任何的對策還有接下來這些高風險的開發帶到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢\n委員謝謝你的指教我印象所及其實在921之後這個有針對這些斷層地帶其實做了地質的一個調查那在這個斷層線上因為這個要非常的這個經過調查之後才能夠確認我印象應該是斷層線上的兩邊應該是100公尺應該是100公尺之內它會有做相關建築的一些規範至於細節的部分我請吳署長做進一步說明\n感謝委員現在現行的規定是這樣就是除了你的都市計劃有劃了這個斷層線以外那它可能就是周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定一個範圍那第二個就是說因為它是屬於活動斷層所以我們這個是一個適宜性的做法你真是在這個周圍的話它必須還要出具這個地址專探的一個報告來確認它有沒有在這個斷層帶上那或者是它必須應該要\n強化它的建築基層的結構、基盤的結構才能辦法送神我想這是在目前來講都有做這樣的一個規範好 謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道\n那當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃那可以再重新討論嗎但我認為安全第一如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的是不是還是要劃一個進縣間的範圍呢委員會跟你報告\n這個如果是活動斷層的話它是歷史上最大地震規模然後在一定的範圍內裡面去做劃設比如說大於這個規模7的話那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺那斷層規模在6到7的話就是兩側各50公尺斷層6以下的或者沒有紀錄的話是30公尺以內好 謝謝部長的說明\n那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會\n是不是有這樣的可能那如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離是不是中央可以再進行一些補助讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估因為我認為這些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊那是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震的措施呢\n就是說現在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦跟委員報告其實因為這也是在重建的過程當中就比如說他要重建或他可能會面臨到這類的問題也就是說除非他就是確認經過當時的這一個地層鑽探確定他是屬於進建的\n因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整\n好 那如果有相關的案件也希望我們署理可以就是針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助好嗎我要補充一句這個如果要容移要移出或者要接收的這個區域是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定所以要做這個補充並不是說他想要移就可以移\n好 謝謝部長那最後我再問一個問題就是剛剛也有提到這個軟腳沙的建築我們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點這個可不可以請部裡來認真的做一次評估啊\n跟委員報告其實我們從108年做到110年其實我們大概有盤點出來就是說從建築的結構圖都有那也分別都通知地方政府請他們代為通知所有全人希望他們正視自己的這個資料那因為這個是屬於個人財產所以我們並沒有對外公佈也請他們努力來申請這個內政補強還有出箱品\n讓他們了解自己房屋的狀況跟未來修繕還有補強的一個方向好 謝謝署長我就是希望這樣子而已就是至少你們要做到通知然後輔導\n是委員那個我想我們有在做檢討就是因為這一次這個大地震之後我想我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料這些建築物我們再做一次通知再提醒所有全能希望他們能夠積極的來做相關的一個評估跟調查好非常好謝謝部長好非常謝謝環節委員的質詢謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.500 --> 00:14.097\n好謝謝主席我們請內政部長我有請林部長\n\n00:19.682 --> 00:48.818\n謝謝委員好好部長好首先我想要請教一下因為剛剛其實也有幾位委員有提到說像這一次4月3號的花蓮大地震大家都非常的難過但是有沒有必要特別訂一個特別的條例來針對這一次的災情呢我覺得這個是要考慮的所以我想要先請教一下我們現在有沒有需要特別像921一樣再訂一個重建條例還是說我們現行的法律就可以處理呢\n\n00:49.358 --> 01:14.407\n是委員記剛剛你已經提到這個重點就是我們現在有的機制還有相關的一個法律還有包括甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的一個能量可以處理這次0403的一個災害因為其實在之前包括兩次0206其實災害也不小不過也沒有訂特別的條例所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考\n\n01:15.421 --> 01:43.037\n好我來補充一下好了其實因為我們台灣有災害防救法那過去其實都是從當初的才在台灣省的時期的天然災害跟善後處理辦法開始的那到1999年921的時候那時候發生了這個921大地震然後我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害所以當時候就是緊急頒布了一個命令然後來制定了921震災的重建戰型條例\n\n01:43.797 --> 02:09.098\n可是在這個921之後我們立法院也馬上通過災害的防救法包括說中央到地方要怎麼分工然後災害應變中心的指揮官要進行相關的人力物力的運用然後還有災害的重建復原的相關的規定其實也都陸陸續續就921之後慢慢的一步一步的來修正過非常多次然後也讓它越來的越完善然後我們現在這個\n\n02:10.299 --> 02:35.799\n其實防救法裡面就已經把相關的災害重建需要的法規其實都已經放進去了那我來舉個例子就是說我現在如果貸款買了一間房然後這間房它可能已經全倒或是半倒了那結果剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢其實當時的921條款裡面就有說排除銀行法的相關的適用然後金融機構它可以承受這些房屋的抵押的貸款\n\n02:37.100 --> 03:00.606\n那這一條其實後來呢從那個921的特別條例之後就被放進了災害的防救法裡面的42條那再例如我再舉個例子當時921的這個特別條例裡面有提到說地震造成的地層的移動可能會造成之後地級圖變動的問題就是要怎麼樣重建等等那這樣的相關的規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面\n\n03:02.486 --> 03:26.089\n所以其實當時的這個有它的歷史脈絡所以我認為說當然救人救災是第一重建的工作一定要非常的完善只是說到底有沒有需要為了這一次的地震再訂一個特別的條例呢那我再次的請教一下我們內政部長是不是目前所有的法規所有的規定以及你們手上的工具都已經是足夠的\n\n03:26.975 --> 03:42.954\n目前為止我們都是足夠的其實包括這個災民的一個安置的部分其實都有相關的一個機制甚至是包括我們的預算因為在後來我們每地方政府跟中央政府我們都要編災害的準備金沒錯\n\n03:43.735 --> 04:01.088\n那另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面其實在921之後呢也在災害防救法裡面立法有一些簡便的行政的措施所以這個都適用在這一次0403的一個地震好謝謝部長那我也請教一下主計處好不好主計處謝謝\n\n04:07.796 --> 04:24.122\n因為大家也在說這一次的這個救災到底我們相關的預算然後這些救災的補助到底你們手上的這些資源是夠的嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算來進行相關的處理是謝謝委員那我\n\n04:25.142 --> 04:53.448\n在這邊跟大家報告就是說目前我們中央各部會都全力的在這個籌措計費來進行災救災跟重建那目前為止依照各部會盤點的結果目前都是足夠的好那當然在這邊有一個很具體的承諾不管是救災的工具救災的法律救災的預算其實目前手頭上我們政府都能夠來做全力的救災工作對嗎\n\n04:54.588 --> 05:13.194\n是的好謝謝主計處可以請回座那再來我繼續請教我們內政部因為其實我們接下來要討論就是如何要減少地震之後造成的傷亡那其實這一次大家有提出一個重點就是說因為其實台灣真的就是在地震帶上面然後會有一些進段層的效應\n\n05:14.694 --> 05:28.687\n然後甚至是比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌有可能發生這樣的事情例如說2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店雲門湊提大樓都是這樣子的狀況那這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面\n\n05:30.709 --> 05:54.268\n所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的\n\n05:55.049 --> 06:20.368\n那這些敏感區目前地質法裡面有規定說我們在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估但是有一些是沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層但是它還是有可能是高風險的狀態我想問一下我們針對這樣的事情有沒有任何的對策還有接下來這些高風險的開發帶到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢\n\n06:22.066 --> 06:38.813\n委員謝謝你的指教我印象所及其實在921之後這個有針對這些斷層地帶其實做了地質的一個調查那在這個斷層線上因為這個要非常的這個經過調查之後才能夠確認我印象應該是斷層線上的兩邊應該是100公尺應該是100公尺之內它會有做相關建築的一些規範至於細節的部分我請吳署長做進一步說明\n\n06:52.894 --> 07:18.544\n感謝委員現在現行的規定是這樣就是除了你的都市計劃有劃了這個斷層線以外那它可能就是周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定一個範圍那第二個就是說因為它是屬於活動斷層所以我們這個是一個適宜性的做法你真是在這個周圍的話它必須還要出具這個地址專探的一個報告來確認它有沒有在這個斷層帶上那或者是它必須應該要\n\n07:22.686 --> 07:51.318\n強化它的建築基層的結構、基盤的結構才能辦法送神我想這是在目前來講都有做這樣的一個規範好謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道\n\n07:51.658 --> 08:05.264\n那當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃那可以再重新討論嗎但我認為安全第一如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的是不是還是要劃一個進縣間的範圍呢委員會跟你報告\n\n08:07.966 --> 08:21.496\n這個如果是活動斷層的話它是歷史上最大地震規模然後在一定的範圍內裡面去做劃設比如說大於這個規模7的話那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺那斷層規模在6到7的話就是兩側各50公尺斷層6以下的或者沒有紀錄的話是30公尺以內好謝謝部長的說明\n\n08:35.647 --> 08:56.632\n那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會\n\n08:57.472 --> 09:15.789\n是不是有這樣的可能那如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離是不是中央可以再進行一些補助讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估因為我認為這些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊那是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震的措施呢\n\n09:19.738 --> 09:33.803\n就是說現在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦跟委員報告其實因為這也是在重建的過程當中就比如說他要重建或他可能會面臨到這類的問題也就是說除非他就是確認經過當時的這一個地層鑽探確定他是屬於進建的\n\n09:37.524 --> 10:02.072\n因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整\n\n10:02.452 --> 10:24.345\n好那如果有相關的案件也希望我們署理可以就是針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助好嗎我要補充一句這個如果要容移要移出或者要接收的這個區域是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定所以要做這個補充並不是說他想要移就可以移\n\n10:25.245 --> 10:36.540\n好謝謝部長那最後我再問一個問題就是剛剛也有提到這個軟腳沙的建築我們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點這個可不可以請部裡來認真的做一次評估啊\n\n10:38.553 --> 11:01.532\n跟委員報告其實我們從108年做到110年其實我們大概有盤點出來就是說從建築的結構圖都有那也分別都通知地方政府請他們代為通知所有全人希望他們正視自己的這個資料那因為這個是屬於個人財產所以我們並沒有對外公佈也請他們努力來申請這個內政補強還有出箱品\n\n11:05.255 --> 11:13.989\n讓他們了解自己房屋的狀況跟未來修繕還有補強的一個方向好謝謝署長我就是希望這樣子而已就是至少你們要做到通知然後輔導\n\n11:14.921 --> 11:34.596\n是委員那個我想我們有在做檢討就是因為這一次這個大地震之後我想我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料這些建築物我們再做一次通知再提醒所有全能希望他們能夠積極的來做相關的一個評估跟調查好非常好謝謝部長好非常謝謝環節委員的質詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.5,"end":14.097,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請內政部長我有請林部長"},{"start":19.682,"end":48.818,"text":"謝謝委員好好 部長好首先我想要請教一下因為剛剛其實也有幾位委員有提到說像這一次4月3號的花蓮大地震大家都非常的難過但是有沒有必要特別訂一個特別的條例來針對這一次的災情呢我覺得這個是要考慮的所以我想要先請教一下我們現在有沒有需要特別像921一樣再訂一個重建條例還是說我們現行的法律就可以處理呢"},{"start":49.358,"end":74.407,"text":"是委員記剛剛你已經提到這個重點就是我們現在有的機制還有相關的一個法律還有包括甚至包括預算能不能有足夠的一個能量可以處理這次0403的一個災害因為其實在之前包括兩次0206其實災害也不小不過也沒有訂特別的條例所以這部分我想應該是這樣子來做思考"},{"start":75.421,"end":103.037,"text":"好我來補充一下好了其實因為我們台灣有災害防救法那過去其實都是從當初的才在台灣省的時期的天然災害跟善後處理辦法開始的那到1999年921的時候那時候發生了這個921大地震然後我們沒有辦法因應這麼大型的天然災害所以當時候就是緊急頒布了一個命令然後來制定了921震災的重建戰型條例"},{"start":103.797,"end":129.098,"text":"可是在這個921之後我們立法院也馬上通過災害的防救法包括說中央到地方要怎麼分工然後災害應變中心的指揮官要進行相關的人力物力的運用然後還有災害的重建復原的相關的規定其實也都陸陸續續就921之後慢慢的一步一步的來修正過非常多次然後也讓它越來的越完善然後我們現在這個"},{"start":130.299,"end":155.799,"text":"其實防救法裡面就已經把相關的災害重建需要的法規其實都已經放進去了那我來舉個例子就是說我現在如果貸款買了一間房然後這間房它可能已經全倒或是半倒了那結果剩下的貸款該怎麼辦呢其實當時的921條款裡面就有說排除銀行法的相關的適用然後金融機構它可以承受這些房屋的抵押的貸款"},{"start":157.1,"end":180.606,"text":"那這一條其實後來呢從那個921的特別條例之後就被放進了災害的防救法裡面的42條那再例如我再舉個例子當時921的這個特別條例裡面有提到說地震造成的地層的移動可能會造成之後地級圖變動的問題就是要怎麼樣重建等等那這樣的相關的規定是不是也被放進災防法裡面"},{"start":182.486,"end":206.089,"text":"所以其實當時的這個有它的歷史脈絡所以我認為說當然救人救災是第一重建的工作一定要非常的完善只是說到底有沒有需要為了這一次的地震再訂一個特別的條例呢那我再次的請教一下我們內政部長是不是目前所有的法規所有的規定以及你們手上的工具都已經是足夠的"},{"start":206.975,"end":222.954,"text":"目前為止我們都是足夠的其實包括這個災民的一個安置的部分其實都有相關的一個機制甚至是包括我們的預算因為在後來我們每地方政府跟中央政府我們都要編災害的準備金沒錯"},{"start":223.735,"end":241.088,"text":"那另外就是包括有一些行政作業上面其實在921之後呢也在災害防救法裡面立法有一些簡便的行政的措施所以這個都適用在這一次0403的一個地震好 謝謝部長那我也請教一下主計處好不好主計處 謝謝"},{"start":247.796,"end":264.122,"text":"因為大家也在說這一次的這個救災到底我們相關的預算然後這些救災的補助到底你們手上的這些資源是夠的嗎可不可以跟大家說明一下我們是不是能夠透過現有的預算來進行相關的處理是謝謝委員那我"},{"start":265.142,"end":293.448,"text":"在這邊跟大家報告就是說目前我們中央各部會都全力的在這個籌措計費來進行災救災跟重建那目前為止依照各部會盤點的結果目前都是足夠的好那當然在這邊有一個很具體的承諾不管是救災的工具救災的法律救災的預算其實目前手頭上我們政府都能夠來做全力的救災工作對嗎"},{"start":294.588,"end":313.194,"text":"是的好謝謝主計處可以請回座那再來我繼續請教我們內政部因為其實我們接下來要討論就是如何要減少地震之後造成的傷亡那其實這一次大家有提出一個重點就是說因為其實台灣真的就是在地震帶上面然後會有一些進段層的效應"},{"start":314.694,"end":328.687,"text":"然後甚至是比遠離斷層的房屋都還容易倒塌有可能發生這樣的事情例如說2018年花蓮地震倒塌的統帥飯店雲門湊提大樓都是這樣子的狀況那這次的天王星大樓也是因為在斷層線上面"},{"start":330.709,"end":354.268,"text":"所以就是要讓大家知道說其實在這個斷層線上面的房屋就是有這麼高的風險只是說到底要怎麼處理呢因為其實現在臺灣我們臺灣光是正式公告的斷層帶就有36條然後甚至有22個就在斷層的附近的區域然後我們臺灣有165平方公里是被劃成這個活動斷層地質敏感區的"},{"start":355.049,"end":380.368,"text":"那這些敏感區目前地質法裡面有規定說我們在開發的時候必須要有安全的評估但是有一些是沒有被劃在地質敏感區的斷層但是它還是有可能是高風險的狀態我想問一下我們針對這樣的事情有沒有任何的對策還有接下來這些高風險的開發帶到底有什麼樣的防範措施呢"},{"start":382.066,"end":398.813,"text":"委員謝謝你的指教我印象所及其實在921之後這個有針對這些斷層地帶其實做了地質的一個調查那在這個斷層線上因為這個要非常的這個經過調查之後才能夠確認我印象應該是斷層線上的兩邊應該是100公尺應該是100公尺之內它會有做相關建築的一些規範至於細節的部分我請吳署長做進一步說明"},{"start":412.894,"end":438.544,"text":"感謝委員現在現行的規定是這樣就是除了你的都市計劃有劃了這個斷層線以外那它可能就是周圍從25公尺到100公尺不等都有規定一個範圍那第二個就是說因為它是屬於活動斷層所以我們這個是一個適宜性的做法你真是在這個周圍的話它必須還要出具這個地址專探的一個報告來確認它有沒有在這個斷層帶上那或者是它必須應該要"},{"start":442.686,"end":471.318,"text":"強化它的建築基層的結構、基盤的結構才能辦法送神我想這是在目前來講都有做這樣的一個規範好 謝謝署長我就是其實是想要請教說因為我們新版的規範的建築物因為有這個近段層的效應所以到底蓋在距離多少範圍的外是安全的這件事情要講清楚然後在這個範圍內是不是就是一定程度的近線建可以再明確的讓大家知道"},{"start":471.658,"end":485.264,"text":"那當然如果我們未來耐震技術更好是不是這個範圍可以再重新劃那可以再重新討論嗎但我認為安全第一如果真的只要在這個範圍內都是有風險的是不是還是要劃一個進縣間的範圍呢委員會跟你報告"},{"start":487.966,"end":501.496,"text":"這個如果是活動斷層的話它是歷史上最大地震規模然後在一定的範圍內裡面去做劃設比如說大於這個規模7的話那就是斷層帶兩側各100公尺那斷層規模在6到7的話就是兩側各50公尺斷層6以下的或者沒有紀錄的話是30公尺以內好 謝謝部長的說明"},{"start":515.647,"end":536.632,"text":"那再來就是說因為在這個斷層在範圍內的現有建築是不是有機會透過異地容積轉移的方式或者是用其他的方式讓民眾先知道說如果我們想要搬移是有機會的或是一個鼓勵或者是讓這個安全的範圍更明確那讓這些民眾有一個搬移的機會"},{"start":537.472,"end":555.789,"text":"是不是有這樣的可能那如果真的他們無法搬離或是不想搬離是不是中央可以再進行一些補助讓他們做一些全面性的耐震評估因為我認為這些高風險的房屋確實就是存在在這邊那是不是你們可以再協助他們做更多的耐震的措施呢"},{"start":559.738,"end":573.803,"text":"就是說現在這些斷層帶上面的房屋到底怎麼辦跟委員報告其實因為這也是在重建的過程當中就比如說他要重建或他可能會面臨到這類的問題也就是說除非他就是確認經過當時的這一個地層鑽探確定他是屬於進建的"},{"start":577.524,"end":602.072,"text":"因為它有分進建跟限建進建的部分那這個部分當然到時候可以透過都市計畫的這個手段再來重新做一個調整因為它有一些要確定是不是容易的話我想會依據各個都市計畫的狀態不一會去做這樣的一個規定那這個部分我是建議到時候都是可以透過都市計畫的手段或在西部計畫又在西部計畫就可以做一些調整"},{"start":602.452,"end":624.345,"text":"好 那如果有相關的案件也希望我們署理可以就是針對這些房屋再給這些居民更具體的建議跟協助好嗎我要補充一句這個如果要容移要移出或者要接收的這個區域是要透過都市計畫的過程去把它做劃定所以要做這個補充並不是說他想要移就可以移"},{"start":625.245,"end":636.54,"text":"好 謝謝部長那最後我再問一個問題就是剛剛也有提到這個軟腳沙的建築我們現在到底有沒有全面的掌握或盤點這個可不可以請部裡來認真的做一次評估啊"},{"start":638.553,"end":661.532,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們從108年做到110年其實我們大概有盤點出來就是說從建築的結構圖都有那也分別都通知地方政府請他們代為通知所有全人希望他們正視自己的這個資料那因為這個是屬於個人財產所以我們並沒有對外公佈也請他們努力來申請這個內政補強還有出箱品"},{"start":665.255,"end":673.989,"text":"讓他們了解自己房屋的狀況跟未來修繕還有補強的一個方向好 謝謝署長我就是希望這樣子而已就是至少你們要做到通知然後輔導"},{"start":674.921,"end":694.596,"text":"是委員那個我想我們有在做檢討就是因為這一次這個大地震之後我想我們會針對剛剛你提到的這些所謂過去有資料這些建築物我們再做一次通知再提醒所有全能希望他們能夠積極的來做相關的一個評估跟調查好非常好謝謝部長好非常謝謝環節委員的質詢謝謝"}]}}}}