{"id":151141,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151141","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0ef290973e26bdaa37bd5be8c4a3d24463f8ba9b0039caa7a64bf6fd8005bdee605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:27:58 - 11:37:44","影片長度":"00:09:46","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助、重建規劃及補助方式」及「從東華實驗室失火事件檢討災害防救之完備化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-11"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":586,"end_time":"2024-04-15T11:37:44+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T11:27:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1111,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時28分）謝謝，我把握最後的機會來質詢林部長以及吳署長。"],["主席：有請林部長及吳署長。"],["林部長右昌：委員謝謝。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝部長。一年多的部長任期，讓你從一位地方的首長，熟知地方建築等等的，甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的，這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災，例如地震，或者是高雄曾經發生的城中城事件，面對這種老舊的建築，內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導？內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助經費，可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因、增加居民可能有想要參與都更的誘因？我想最重要的原因可能會出在都更的期間到底要住哪裡，他們到底要去哪裡住？我們相關的配套措施沒有很足夠。","針對這一次的災區、災民，我們從目前所整理出來的民眾租屋協助方案裡面來做一個討論，民眾可以自行租房，民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋，如果沒有辦法租屋的時候，地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者、四百多間房間，可滿足一千多個人的住房，這是我看到的資料，這是遇到災難的時候，房子真的沒有辦法進去了，所以我們必須要做這些盤整跟政府能做的事情。但是，署長有沒有進一步的討論？就是所有類似的都更案裡面，其實最難的就是這一塊，除了這些條件之外，除了這些容積等等的之外，最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想到下一步要往哪裡去的，其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾。當紅單、黃單出現這些住宅上，紅單是已經強制必須要搬離，但是他如果又跑回去住，你也是沒有辦法避免。","我們藉由災難的發生，因為災難的發生，讓我們要更積極、更急迫的趕快去處理。舉高雄市在發生城中城大火之後為例，因為城中城當時沒有管委會，所以高雄市在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防安檢，相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的作為，但是國土署這邊對於地方政府有沒有比較多的鼓勵措施？署長可以回應。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，若以現在這樣的紅、黃單狀況，黃單當然是可以修繕……"],["李委員柏毅：好像這次倒的這一棟大樓原本是黃單？"],["吳署長欣修：對，因為天王星就是只有進行完修繕，沒有再做耐震補強。"],["李委員柏毅：但是它有解除嗎？它後來……"],["吳署長欣修：因為黃單是可以修繕後解除的，但是它並沒有進一步去申請耐震補強，也跟委員報告……"],["李委員柏毅：所以天王星是在修繕之後沒有做耐震補強，但是它就解除黃單了？"],["吳署長欣修：對，因為修繕後就可以解除。"],["李委員柏毅：是修繕或補強，還是修繕加補強才可以解除黃單？"],["吳署長欣修：修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了。"],["李委員柏毅：所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅地拿出來討論。"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以跟委員報告，我們之前在花蓮所輔導有進行耐震補強的3棟大樓，在這一次地震全部都安然無恙。"],["李委員柏毅：那解除是有問題的嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：不是，因為解除有很多的狀況，因為它是屬於只要經過修繕後恢復原狀，但是應該這麼說，黃單在修繕完並不是代表其結構安全無虞。"],["李委員柏毅：沒有錯，但是應該就不要讓它解除嘛！如果它沒有做耐震補強的話。"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以我們這一次是反過來，主動下去開輔導團的會議，把住戶都找出來，就是希望他們能夠加入耐震補強的作業，所以這一次的作法，我們從上週就已經啟動下去了。"],["李委員柏毅：來，部長。"],["林部長右昌：我來說明一下，因為這次的地震是7.2級，剛剛提到它就算被貼黃單，它在修繕之後，基本上是安全無虞，但它如果能夠進一步做耐震補強的話，可能耐震能力會比原本好，但是並不代表它在修繕之後就恢復可以去居住，它有安全的顧慮……"],["李委員柏毅：就是我們看到的這個狀況……"],["林部長右昌：但是因為這一次的地震真的蠻大的。"],["李委員柏毅：我們其實應該要來討論，是不是除了修繕恢復原狀之外，一定要耐震補強才可以解除黃單？"],["林部長右昌：這對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題，而且……"],["李委員柏毅：所以我們就可能要適度地編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導，有沒有這個討論？"],["林部長右昌：我們現在輔導的機制都有，不過剛剛特別提到，因為這次……"],["李委員柏毅：經費呢？"],["林部長右昌：經費也有，可是因為現在牽扯到這是私人的財產，建物的安全並無虞，至於要不要進一步補強，這是住戶必須要自己決定的。"],["李委員柏毅：沒有錯，所以我們要提出誘因嘛！本來這個耐震補強，可能超過30年以上的大樓曾經是被列為黃單，它如果經過修繕之後沒問題，但是如果再加上耐震補強，你們這邊可以補助多少經費讓他們來做耐震補強，我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點。"],["林部長右昌：是，現在因為機制都有，關於你提到誘因的部分，我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。高雄市、臺北市、六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的重點。接下來的討論，當然我們鼓勵危老都更，我們鼓勵在災難中可能會比較容易受損，或者是造成災害的這一些住宅，我們可以有更多的誘因讓它來都更，可是目前為止，現在這些相關的集合式住宅的補助，我們認為還是不夠。另外，針對這一些居民的安置，我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力。比如我的選區，右昌有超過40年大概是5層樓的一個社區，當地是商五的用地，非常具有價值，也有很多開發商可能有意願來進駐，但是最後遇到的問題，除了居民本身的這些坪數的兌換之外，其實最主要的是他在都更這段時間的安置問題。在都更這段時間的安置問題沒有辦法達成共識，它會造成現在全臺灣，包含臺北市、新北市、高雄市所有的危老都更案件進度緩慢，所以署長我們是不是就這一方面來做一些加強，繼續來努力？希望這些危老都更的狀況，在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實在我們歷次的經驗裡面，大致上的爭執點就是都更計畫裡面，住戶的租金大概要算多久，這是第一個。第二個是可不可以放到社會住宅。"],["李委員柏毅：其實以現在的都更來講，6年、8年也是很正常。"],["吳署長欣修：對，這在個別計畫裡面都可以檢討，因為部分送到審議委員會裡面是可以討論的，但是過去的經驗看起來都編得偏少，大概都只有編兩年多，兩年或兩年半。"],["李委員柏毅：你如果又要放到社會住宅，那個是更大的一個題目。"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以我才說那是另外一個要檢討的議題，但是我們一般都還是希望它可以放到都更計畫裡面整個去送審核，這個部分我們來檢討，如果有需要，我們在法規上有更強制性的作為來處理……"],["李委員柏毅：我覺得國土署還是比較在上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬，讓民眾更有誘因，讓這些開發有可能可以完成，這是我們必須要去努力的方向跟目標。"],["吳署長欣修：對，這個我們會再來檢討。"],["李委員柏毅：也謝謝部長這一年多來對內政部付出的這些努力，謝謝，辛苦了！"],["主席：非常謝謝李柏毅委員、謝謝部長、謝謝署長。","繼續我們請蘇巧慧委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-11","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張智倫","黃捷","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","丁學忠","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 578.077, \"end\": 578.337, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 578.337, \"end\": 578.517, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 578.517, \"end\": 578.677, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 578.677, \"end\": 579.378, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 579.378, \"end\": 579.538, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 579.538, \"end\": 579.558, \"score\": 0.501}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,052 --> 00:00:07,273\n謝謝保護最後的機會來質詢林部長還有吳署長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:23,801 --> 00:00:50,546\n謝謝部長一年多的部長的任期讓你從一位地方的首長那熟知地方的這些建築等等的甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災例如地震或者是高雄曾經發生的這個城中城的事件這種老舊的建築裡面\n\n3\n00:00:53,001 --> 00:01:12,537\n內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助的這些經費那可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因增加居民他可能有想要參與都更的誘因我想最重要的原因可能會出在\n\n4\n00:01:13,823 --> 00:01:35,564\n在都更的期間到底要住哪裡我到底要去哪裡住我們相關的這些配套的措施沒有很足夠我想從這一次我們的災區災民我們現在目前所提供出來整理出來的民眾的租屋協助方案裡面我們來做一個討論\n\n5\n00:01:37,505 --> 00:01:56,241\n民眾可以自行租房民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋如果沒有辦法租屋的時候地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者400多間房間滿足1000多個人的住房這是我看到的資料但是這是遇到\n\n6\n00:01:58,022 --> 00:02:20,443\n災難的時候沒有辦法了房子真的沒有辦法進去了所以我們必須要做的這些盤整跟政府能做的事情但是署長有沒有進一步的討論就是類似所有的都更案裡面其實最難的就是這一塊除了這些條件之外除了這些隆基除了等等的之外其實最\n\n7\n00:02:21,084 --> 00:02:30,841\n最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想我下一步要往哪裡去其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾\n\n8\n00:02:34,973 --> 00:02:54,680\n當紅單黃單這些住宅裡面紅單已經強制必須要可能要搬離但是他如果又跑跑回去住你也是沒有辦法避免那所以其實我們藉由災難的發生因為災難的發生讓我們要更積極更急迫的趕快去處理舉例是\n\n9\n00:02:56,121 --> 00:03:11,579\n當時城中城大火之後為例高雄市當時因為這個城中城當時也沒有這個管委會那所以高雄市當時在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防的安檢那\n\n10\n00:03:13,121 --> 00:03:27,677\n相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的這些作為但是我們國土署這邊對於地方政府這邊有沒有比較多的這些鼓勵的措施讓來署長你可以回應\n\n11\n00:03:30,201 --> 00:03:56,516\n其實跟委員報告啦如果以現在這樣的一個紅黃丹的狀況黃丹當然他是可以修繕啦黃丹可以修繕好像這一次倒的這棟大樓原本是黃丹嗎對因為天王星他就是只有進行往修繕他就沒有再做但是他有解除嗎因為他黃丹是可以修繕後解除的但是他並沒有往下一步我去申請內政補強\n\n12\n00:03:59,438 --> 00:04:14,391\n所以天王星他是修繕之後他沒有做內政補強但是他就解除防單了對因為修繕後就可以解除修繕或補強還是修繕加補強他是修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了\n\n13\n00:04:15,471 --> 00:04:37,725\n所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅的拿出來討論所以跟我們報告我們之前在花蓮所福島有進行內政補強的山洞大樓這一次地震全部都安然無恙那解除是有問題的嗎不是因為解除它有很多的狀況因為它是屬於在只要把它經過修繕你又恢復原狀它可以恢復但是應該這麼說黃丹修繕卵\n\n14\n00:04:40,486 --> 00:05:02,633\n並不是代表你的結構安全無疑沒有錯但是應該就不要讓他解除嘛如果他沒有做內政補強的話對對所以我們這一次是反過來是主動下去開這個輔導團的會議把住戶都找出來就希望他們能夠加入內政補強的一個作業所以這一次的做法我們從上週就已經啟動下去了部長\n\n15\n00:05:05,455 --> 00:05:25,076\n因為這次的地震是7.2級那剛剛在提到他就算被貼黃單他修繕之後他是基本上是安全無虞但安全無虞他如果能夠做進一步的耐震補強的話他可能耐震的能力會比原本好\n\n16\n00:05:25,777 --> 00:05:40,197\n但是並不代表說他這個修繕之後恢復可以去居住他有安全的規律但是這一次因為地震是真的蠻大的是不是應該要加上除了修繕恢復原狀之後一定要內政補強\n\n17\n00:05:41,138 --> 00:06:09,530\n才可以解除這個環境問題。」那這個對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題所以我們就要可能適度的編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導有沒有這個討論我們現在輔導的機制都有不過剛剛特別提到因為這是經費經費也有經費也有可是現在牽扯到因為這是私人的財產那他的安全並無虞建物的安全並無虞\n\n18\n00:06:09,850 --> 00:06:36,029\n那他要不要進一步補強這個是住戶他們必須要自己決定的所以我們要提出誘因嘛本來這個內政補強可能我們超過30年以上的大樓那曾經是被列為黃丹那他如果經過修山之後沒問題但是我們如果再加上內政補強我這邊可以補助你多少的經費讓你來做這些內政補強的話我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點是\n\n19\n00:06:37,871 --> 00:06:58,364\n委員關係現在因為機制都有那有關你提到誘因的部分我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討謝謝那高雄市、台北市我們六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的這些集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的這些重點那繼續要討論當然我們鼓勵這個危老都更我們鼓勵可能\n\n20\n00:07:05,337 --> 00:07:31,235\n在災難中可能會比較容易受損或者是造成災害的這些住宅我們可以有更多的誘因可以讓他來做都更可是目前為止的話如果針對現在的這些相關的這些集合式住宅的補助的話我們認為還是不夠另外就是針對這一些居民的安置我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力比如說\n\n21\n00:07:32,816 --> 00:08:01,308\n我的選區右倉有超過40年的它大概是五層樓的一個社區當地這個地方是商武的這些用地非常具有價值那也有很多開發商有可能有意願來進駐但是遇到最後的問題還是居民他除了他本身的這些坪數的兌換之外其實最主要就是他在都跟這段時間的安置的問題\n\n22\n00:08:02,588 --> 00:08:28,993\n都更這段時間安置的問題沒有辦法達成一個共識它會造成所有現在全台灣包含臺北市、新北市包含高雄市的這些危勞都更的進度緩慢所以是不是署長我們就這一方面來做一些加強繼續來努力希望這些危勞都更的狀況在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動來署長\n\n23\n00:08:32,355 --> 00:08:41,446\n跟委員報告因為其實我們在歷次的經驗裡面大致上大概爭執點就是你的那個都更計畫裡面\n\n24\n00:08:42,469 --> 00:09:02,110\n你要把這個住戶的租金大概算多久這是第一個第二個就是可不可以放到社會住宅其實以現在的獨耕來講6年8年也是很正常的對對所以這個都是個別計畫裡面是可以檢討因為這個送到這個審議委員會裡面是可以討論的但是過去的經驗看起來都編的偏少\n\n25\n00:09:02,891 --> 00:09:21,008\n都編了篇少,大概都是只有編兩年多兩年或兩年半你如果又要放到社會住宅那個是更大的一個題目所以我才說那個是要另外一個檢討但是我們一般都還是希望他可以放到都跟計畫裡面整個去送審核那這個部分如果我們來檢討如果有需要我們在法規上\n\n26\n00:09:22,068 --> 00:09:39,558\n我覺得國土署還是比較上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬讓民眾更有誘因讓這些開發有可能可以完成這是我們必須要去努力的目標也謝謝部長這一年多來對於內政部的這些努力謝謝辛苦\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6052\t7273\t謝謝保護最後的機會來質詢林部長還有吳署長謝謝\n23801\t50546\t謝謝部長一年多的部長的任期讓你從一位地方的首長那熟知地方的這些建築等等的甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災例如地震或者是高雄曾經發生的這個城中城的事件這種老舊的建築裡面\n53001\t72537\t內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助的這些經費那可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因增加居民他可能有想要參與都更的誘因我想最重要的原因可能會出在\n73823\t95564\t在都更的期間到底要住哪裡我到底要去哪裡住我們相關的這些配套的措施沒有很足夠我想從這一次我們的災區災民我們現在目前所提供出來整理出來的民眾的租屋協助方案裡面我們來做一個討論\n97505\t116241\t民眾可以自行租房民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋如果沒有辦法租屋的時候地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者400多間房間滿足1000多個人的住房這是我看到的資料但是這是遇到\n118022\t140443\t災難的時候沒有辦法了房子真的沒有辦法進去了所以我們必須要做的這些盤整跟政府能做的事情但是署長有沒有進一步的討論就是類似所有的都更案裡面其實最難的就是這一塊除了這些條件之外除了這些隆基除了等等的之外其實最\n141084\t150841\t最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想我下一步要往哪裡去其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾\n154973\t174680\t當紅單黃單這些住宅裡面紅單已經強制必須要可能要搬離但是他如果又跑跑回去住你也是沒有辦法避免那所以其實我們藉由災難的發生因為災難的發生讓我們要更積極更急迫的趕快去處理舉例是\n176121\t191579\t當時城中城大火之後為例高雄市當時因為這個城中城當時也沒有這個管委會那所以高雄市當時在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防的安檢那\n193121\t207677\t相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的這些作為但是我們國土署這邊對於地方政府這邊有沒有比較多的這些鼓勵的措施讓來署長你可以回應\n210201\t236516\t其實跟委員報告啦如果以現在這樣的一個紅黃丹的狀況黃丹當然他是可以修繕啦黃丹可以修繕好像這一次倒的這棟大樓原本是黃丹嗎對 因為天王星他就是只有進行往修繕他就沒有再做但是他有解除嗎因為他黃丹是可以修繕後解除的但是他並沒有往下一步我去申請內政補強\n239438\t254391\t所以天王星他是修繕之後他沒有做內政補強但是他就解除防單了對因為修繕後就可以解除修繕或補強還是修繕加補強他是修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了\n255471\t277725\t所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅的拿出來討論所以跟我們報告我們之前在花蓮所福島有進行內政補強的山洞大樓這一次地震全部都安然無恙那解除是有問題的嗎不是因為解除它有很多的狀況因為它是屬於在只要把它經過修繕你又恢復原狀它可以恢復但是應該這麼說黃丹修繕卵\n280486\t302633\t並不是代表你的結構安全無疑沒有錯但是應該就不要讓他解除嘛如果他沒有做內政補強的話對對所以我們這一次是反過來是主動下去開這個輔導團的會議把住戶都找出來就希望他們能夠加入內政補強的一個作業所以這一次的做法我們從上週就已經啟動下去了部長\n305455\t325076\t因為這次的地震是7.2級那剛剛在提到他就算被貼黃單他修繕之後他是基本上是安全無虞但安全無虞他如果能夠做進一步的耐震補強的話他可能耐震的能力會比原本好\n325777\t340197\t但是並不代表說他這個修繕之後恢復可以去居住他有安全的規律但是這一次因為地震是真的蠻大的是不是應該要加上除了修繕恢復原狀之後一定要內政補強\n341138\t369530\t才可以解除這個環境問題。」那這個對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題所以我們就要可能適度的編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導有沒有這個討論我們現在輔導的機制都有不過剛剛特別提到因為這是經費經費也有經費也有可是現在牽扯到因為這是私人的財產那他的安全並無虞建物的安全並無虞\n369850\t396029\t那他要不要進一步補強這個是住戶他們必須要自己決定的所以我們要提出誘因嘛本來這個內政補強可能我們超過30年以上的大樓那曾經是被列為黃丹那他如果經過修山之後沒問題但是我們如果再加上內政補強我這邊可以補助你多少的經費讓你來做這些內政補強的話我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點是\n397871\t418364\t委員關係現在因為機制都有那有關你提到誘因的部分我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討謝謝那高雄市、台北市我們六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的這些集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的這些重點那繼續要討論當然我們鼓勵這個危老都更我們鼓勵可能\n425337\t451235\t在災難中可能會比較容易受損或者是造成災害的這些住宅我們可以有更多的誘因可以讓他來做都更可是目前為止的話如果針對現在的這些相關的這些集合式住宅的補助的話我們認為還是不夠另外就是針對這一些居民的安置我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力比如說\n452816\t481308\t我的選區右倉有超過40年的它大概是五層樓的一個社區當地這個地方是商武的這些用地非常具有價值那也有很多開發商有可能有意願來進駐但是遇到最後的問題還是居民他除了他本身的這些坪數的兌換之外其實最主要就是他在都跟這段時間的安置的問題\n482588\t508993\t都更這段時間安置的問題沒有辦法達成一個共識它會造成所有現在全台灣包含臺北市、新北市包含高雄市的這些危勞都更的進度緩慢所以是不是署長我們就這一方面來做一些加強繼續來努力希望這些危勞都更的狀況在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動來署長\n512355\t521446\t跟委員報告因為其實我們在歷次的經驗裡面大致上大概爭執點就是你的那個都更計畫裡面\n522469\t542110\t你要把這個住戶的租金大概算多久這是第一個第二個就是可不可以放到社會住宅其實以現在的獨耕來講6年8年也是很正常的對對所以這個都是個別計畫裡面是可以檢討因為這個送到這個審議委員會裡面是可以討論的但是過去的經驗看起來都編的偏少\n542891\t561008\t都編了篇少,大概都是只有編兩年多兩年或兩年半你如果又要放到社會住宅那個是更大的一個題目所以我才說那個是要另外一個檢討但是我們一般都還是希望他可以放到都跟計畫裡面整個去送審核那這個部分如果我們來檢討如果有需要我們在法規上\n562068\t579558\t我覺得國土署還是比較上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬讓民眾更有誘因讓這些開發有可能可以完成這是我們必須要去努力的目標也謝謝部長這一年多來對於內政部的這些努力謝謝辛苦\n","txt":"謝謝保護最後的機會來質詢林部長還有吳署長謝謝\n謝謝部長一年多的部長的任期讓你從一位地方的首長那熟知地方的這些建築等等的甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災例如地震或者是高雄曾經發生的這個城中城的事件這種老舊的建築裡面\n內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助的這些經費那可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因增加居民他可能有想要參與都更的誘因我想最重要的原因可能會出在\n在都更的期間到底要住哪裡我到底要去哪裡住我們相關的這些配套的措施沒有很足夠我想從這一次我們的災區災民我們現在目前所提供出來整理出來的民眾的租屋協助方案裡面我們來做一個討論\n民眾可以自行租房民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋如果沒有辦法租屋的時候地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者400多間房間滿足1000多個人的住房這是我看到的資料但是這是遇到\n災難的時候沒有辦法了房子真的沒有辦法進去了所以我們必須要做的這些盤整跟政府能做的事情但是署長有沒有進一步的討論就是類似所有的都更案裡面其實最難的就是這一塊除了這些條件之外除了這些隆基除了等等的之外其實最\n最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想我下一步要往哪裡去其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾\n當紅單黃單這些住宅裡面紅單已經強制必須要可能要搬離但是他如果又跑跑回去住你也是沒有辦法避免那所以其實我們藉由災難的發生因為災難的發生讓我們要更積極更急迫的趕快去處理舉例是\n當時城中城大火之後為例高雄市當時因為這個城中城當時也沒有這個管委會那所以高雄市當時在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防的安檢那\n相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的這些作為但是我們國土署這邊對於地方政府這邊有沒有比較多的這些鼓勵的措施讓來署長你可以回應\n其實跟委員報告啦如果以現在這樣的一個紅黃丹的狀況黃丹當然他是可以修繕啦黃丹可以修繕好像這一次倒的這棟大樓原本是黃丹嗎對 因為天王星他就是只有進行往修繕他就沒有再做但是他有解除嗎因為他黃丹是可以修繕後解除的但是他並沒有往下一步我去申請內政補強\n所以天王星他是修繕之後他沒有做內政補強但是他就解除防單了對因為修繕後就可以解除修繕或補強還是修繕加補強他是修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了\n所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅的拿出來討論所以跟我們報告我們之前在花蓮所福島有進行內政補強的山洞大樓這一次地震全部都安然無恙那解除是有問題的嗎不是因為解除它有很多的狀況因為它是屬於在只要把它經過修繕你又恢復原狀它可以恢復但是應該這麼說黃丹修繕卵\n並不是代表你的結構安全無疑沒有錯但是應該就不要讓他解除嘛如果他沒有做內政補強的話對對所以我們這一次是反過來是主動下去開這個輔導團的會議把住戶都找出來就希望他們能夠加入內政補強的一個作業所以這一次的做法我們從上週就已經啟動下去了部長\n因為這次的地震是7.2級那剛剛在提到他就算被貼黃單他修繕之後他是基本上是安全無虞但安全無虞他如果能夠做進一步的耐震補強的話他可能耐震的能力會比原本好\n但是並不代表說他這個修繕之後恢復可以去居住他有安全的規律但是這一次因為地震是真的蠻大的是不是應該要加上除了修繕恢復原狀之後一定要內政補強\n才可以解除這個環境問題。」那這個對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題所以我們就要可能適度的編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導有沒有這個討論我們現在輔導的機制都有不過剛剛特別提到因為這是經費經費也有經費也有可是現在牽扯到因為這是私人的財產那他的安全並無虞建物的安全並無虞\n那他要不要進一步補強這個是住戶他們必須要自己決定的所以我們要提出誘因嘛本來這個內政補強可能我們超過30年以上的大樓那曾經是被列為黃丹那他如果經過修山之後沒問題但是我們如果再加上內政補強我這邊可以補助你多少的經費讓你來做這些內政補強的話我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點是\n委員關係現在因為機制都有那有關你提到誘因的部分我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討謝謝那高雄市、台北市我們六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的這些集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的這些重點那繼續要討論當然我們鼓勵這個危老都更我們鼓勵可能\n在災難中可能會比較容易受損或者是造成災害的這些住宅我們可以有更多的誘因可以讓他來做都更可是目前為止的話如果針對現在的這些相關的這些集合式住宅的補助的話我們認為還是不夠另外就是針對這一些居民的安置我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力比如說\n我的選區右倉有超過40年的它大概是五層樓的一個社區當地這個地方是商武的這些用地非常具有價值那也有很多開發商有可能有意願來進駐但是遇到最後的問題還是居民他除了他本身的這些坪數的兌換之外其實最主要就是他在都跟這段時間的安置的問題\n都更這段時間安置的問題沒有辦法達成一個共識它會造成所有現在全台灣包含臺北市、新北市包含高雄市的這些危勞都更的進度緩慢所以是不是署長我們就這一方面來做一些加強繼續來努力希望這些危勞都更的狀況在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動來署長\n跟委員報告因為其實我們在歷次的經驗裡面大致上大概爭執點就是你的那個都更計畫裡面\n你要把這個住戶的租金大概算多久這是第一個第二個就是可不可以放到社會住宅其實以現在的獨耕來講6年8年也是很正常的對對所以這個都是個別計畫裡面是可以檢討因為這個送到這個審議委員會裡面是可以討論的但是過去的經驗看起來都編的偏少\n都編了篇少,大概都是只有編兩年多兩年或兩年半你如果又要放到社會住宅那個是更大的一個題目所以我才說那個是要另外一個檢討但是我們一般都還是希望他可以放到都跟計畫裡面整個去送審核那這個部分如果我們來檢討如果有需要我們在法規上\n我覺得國土署還是比較上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬讓民眾更有誘因讓這些開發有可能可以完成這是我們必須要去努力的目標也謝謝部長這一年多來對於內政部的這些努力謝謝辛苦\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.052 --> 00:07.273\n謝謝保護最後的機會來質詢林部長還有吳署長謝謝\n\n00:23.801 --> 00:50.546\n謝謝部長一年多的部長的任期讓你從一位地方的首長那熟知地方的這些建築等等的甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災例如地震或者是高雄曾經發生的這個城中城的事件這種老舊的建築裡面\n\n00:53.001 --> 01:12.537\n內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助的這些經費那可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因增加居民他可能有想要參與都更的誘因我想最重要的原因可能會出在\n\n01:13.823 --> 01:35.564\n在都更的期間到底要住哪裡我到底要去哪裡住我們相關的這些配套的措施沒有很足夠我想從這一次我們的災區災民我們現在目前所提供出來整理出來的民眾的租屋協助方案裡面我們來做一個討論\n\n01:37.505 --> 01:56.241\n民眾可以自行租房民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋如果沒有辦法租屋的時候地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者400多間房間滿足1000多個人的住房這是我看到的資料但是這是遇到\n\n01:58.022 --> 02:20.443\n災難的時候沒有辦法了房子真的沒有辦法進去了所以我們必須要做的這些盤整跟政府能做的事情但是署長有沒有進一步的討論就是類似所有的都更案裡面其實最難的就是這一塊除了這些條件之外除了這些隆基除了等等的之外其實最\n\n02:21.084 --> 02:30.841\n最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想我下一步要往哪裡去其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾\n\n02:34.973 --> 02:54.680\n當紅單黃單這些住宅裡面紅單已經強制必須要可能要搬離但是他如果又跑跑回去住你也是沒有辦法避免那所以其實我們藉由災難的發生因為災難的發生讓我們要更積極更急迫的趕快去處理舉例是\n\n02:56.121 --> 03:11.579\n當時城中城大火之後為例高雄市當時因為這個城中城當時也沒有這個管委會那所以高雄市當時在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防的安檢那\n\n03:13.121 --> 03:27.677\n相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的這些作為但是我們國土署這邊對於地方政府這邊有沒有比較多的這些鼓勵的措施讓來署長你可以回應\n\n03:30.201 --> 03:56.516\n其實跟委員報告啦如果以現在這樣的一個紅黃丹的狀況黃丹當然他是可以修繕啦黃丹可以修繕好像這一次倒的這棟大樓原本是黃丹嗎對因為天王星他就是只有進行往修繕他就沒有再做但是他有解除嗎因為他黃丹是可以修繕後解除的但是他並沒有往下一步我去申請內政補強\n\n03:59.438 --> 04:14.391\n所以天王星他是修繕之後他沒有做內政補強但是他就解除防單了對因為修繕後就可以解除修繕或補強還是修繕加補強他是修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了\n\n04:15.471 --> 04:37.725\n所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅的拿出來討論所以跟我們報告我們之前在花蓮所福島有進行內政補強的山洞大樓這一次地震全部都安然無恙那解除是有問題的嗎不是因為解除它有很多的狀況因為它是屬於在只要把它經過修繕你又恢復原狀它可以恢復但是應該這麼說黃丹修繕卵\n\n04:40.486 --> 05:02.633\n並不是代表你的結構安全無疑沒有錯但是應該就不要讓他解除嘛如果他沒有做內政補強的話對對所以我們這一次是反過來是主動下去開這個輔導團的會議把住戶都找出來就希望他們能夠加入內政補強的一個作業所以這一次的做法我們從上週就已經啟動下去了部長\n\n05:05.455 --> 05:25.076\n因為這次的地震是7.2級那剛剛在提到他就算被貼黃單他修繕之後他是基本上是安全無虞但安全無虞他如果能夠做進一步的耐震補強的話他可能耐震的能力會比原本好\n\n05:25.777 --> 05:40.197\n但是並不代表說他這個修繕之後恢復可以去居住他有安全的規律但是這一次因為地震是真的蠻大的是不是應該要加上除了修繕恢復原狀之後一定要內政補強\n\n05:41.138 --> 06:09.530\n才可以解除這個環境問題。」那這個對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題所以我們就要可能適度的編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導有沒有這個討論我們現在輔導的機制都有不過剛剛特別提到因為這是經費經費也有經費也有可是現在牽扯到因為這是私人的財產那他的安全並無虞建物的安全並無虞\n\n06:09.850 --> 06:36.029\n那他要不要進一步補強這個是住戶他們必須要自己決定的所以我們要提出誘因嘛本來這個內政補強可能我們超過30年以上的大樓那曾經是被列為黃丹那他如果經過修山之後沒問題但是我們如果再加上內政補強我這邊可以補助你多少的經費讓你來做這些內政補強的話我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點是\n\n06:37.871 --> 06:58.364\n委員關係現在因為機制都有那有關你提到誘因的部分我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討謝謝那高雄市、台北市我們六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的這些集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的這些重點那繼續要討論當然我們鼓勵這個危老都更我們鼓勵可能\n\n07:05.337 --> 07:31.235\n在災難中可能會比較容易受損或者是造成災害的這些住宅我們可以有更多的誘因可以讓他來做都更可是目前為止的話如果針對現在的這些相關的這些集合式住宅的補助的話我們認為還是不夠另外就是針對這一些居民的安置我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力比如說\n\n07:32.816 --> 08:01.308\n我的選區右倉有超過40年的它大概是五層樓的一個社區當地這個地方是商武的這些用地非常具有價值那也有很多開發商有可能有意願來進駐但是遇到最後的問題還是居民他除了他本身的這些坪數的兌換之外其實最主要就是他在都跟這段時間的安置的問題\n\n08:02.588 --> 08:28.993\n都更這段時間安置的問題沒有辦法達成一個共識它會造成所有現在全台灣包含臺北市、新北市包含高雄市的這些危勞都更的進度緩慢所以是不是署長我們就這一方面來做一些加強繼續來努力希望這些危勞都更的狀況在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動來署長\n\n08:32.355 --> 08:41.446\n跟委員報告因為其實我們在歷次的經驗裡面大致上大概爭執點就是你的那個都更計畫裡面\n\n08:42.469 --> 09:02.110\n你要把這個住戶的租金大概算多久這是第一個第二個就是可不可以放到社會住宅其實以現在的獨耕來講6年8年也是很正常的對對所以這個都是個別計畫裡面是可以檢討因為這個送到這個審議委員會裡面是可以討論的但是過去的經驗看起來都編的偏少\n\n09:02.891 --> 09:21.008\n都編了篇少,大概都是只有編兩年多兩年或兩年半你如果又要放到社會住宅那個是更大的一個題目所以我才說那個是要另外一個檢討但是我們一般都還是希望他可以放到都跟計畫裡面整個去送審核那這個部分如果我們來檢討如果有需要我們在法規上\n\n09:22.068 --> 09:39.558\n我覺得國土署還是比較上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬讓民眾更有誘因讓這些開發有可能可以完成這是我們必須要去努力的目標也謝謝部長這一年多來對於內政部的這些努力謝謝辛苦\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.052,"end":7.273,"text":"謝謝保護最後的機會來質詢林部長還有吳署長謝謝"},{"start":23.801,"end":50.546,"text":"謝謝部長一年多的部長的任期讓你從一位地方的首長那熟知地方的這些建築等等的甚至我們今天就來討論最重要的這些老舊的集合住宅在面對天災例如地震或者是高雄曾經發生的這個城中城的事件這種老舊的建築裡面"},{"start":53.001,"end":72.537,"text":"內政部可以做什麼樣的輔導內政部可以再多什麼樣的輔助的這些經費那可以讓地方政府增加這些誘因增加居民他可能有想要參與都更的誘因我想最重要的原因可能會出在"},{"start":73.823,"end":95.564,"text":"在都更的期間到底要住哪裡我到底要去哪裡住我們相關的這些配套的措施沒有很足夠我想從這一次我們的災區災民我們現在目前所提供出來整理出來的民眾的租屋協助方案裡面我們來做一個討論"},{"start":97.505,"end":116.241,"text":"民眾可以自行租房民眾也可以透過包租代管媒合租屋如果沒有辦法租屋的時候地方政府這邊可能有初步調查70家業者400多間房間滿足1000多個人的住房這是我看到的資料但是這是遇到"},{"start":118.022,"end":140.443,"text":"災難的時候沒有辦法了房子真的沒有辦法進去了所以我們必須要做的這些盤整跟政府能做的事情但是署長有沒有進一步的討論就是類似所有的都更案裡面其實最難的就是這一塊除了這些條件之外除了這些隆基除了等等的之外其實最"},{"start":141.084,"end":150.841,"text":"最讓民眾可能沒有辦法想我下一步要往哪裡去其實就是我們怎麼樣安置原本住在這裡面的民眾"},{"start":154.973,"end":174.68,"text":"當紅單黃單這些住宅裡面紅單已經強制必須要可能要搬離但是他如果又跑跑回去住你也是沒有辦法避免那所以其實我們藉由災難的發生因為災難的發生讓我們要更積極更急迫的趕快去處理舉例是"},{"start":176.121,"end":191.579,"text":"當時城中城大火之後為例高雄市當時因為這個城中城當時也沒有這個管委會那所以高雄市當時在3天內就針對30年以上的住商大樓做消防的安檢那"},{"start":193.121,"end":207.677,"text":"相關的這些當然地方政府必須要去做很多積極的這些作為但是我們國土署這邊對於地方政府這邊有沒有比較多的這些鼓勵的措施讓來署長你可以回應"},{"start":210.201,"end":236.516,"text":"其實跟委員報告啦如果以現在這樣的一個紅黃丹的狀況黃丹當然他是可以修繕啦黃丹可以修繕好像這一次倒的這棟大樓原本是黃丹嗎對 因為天王星他就是只有進行往修繕他就沒有再做但是他有解除嗎因為他黃丹是可以修繕後解除的但是他並沒有往下一步我去申請內政補強"},{"start":239.438,"end":254.391,"text":"所以天王星他是修繕之後他沒有做內政補強但是他就解除防單了對因為修繕後就可以解除修繕或補強還是修繕加補強他是修繕後只要恢復原狀就可以了"},{"start":255.471,"end":277.725,"text":"所以這個問題應該也是要嚴肅的拿出來討論所以跟我們報告我們之前在花蓮所福島有進行內政補強的山洞大樓這一次地震全部都安然無恙那解除是有問題的嗎不是因為解除它有很多的狀況因為它是屬於在只要把它經過修繕你又恢復原狀它可以恢復但是應該這麼說黃丹修繕卵"},{"start":280.486,"end":302.633,"text":"並不是代表你的結構安全無疑沒有錯但是應該就不要讓他解除嘛如果他沒有做內政補強的話對對所以我們這一次是反過來是主動下去開這個輔導團的會議把住戶都找出來就希望他們能夠加入內政補強的一個作業所以這一次的做法我們從上週就已經啟動下去了部長"},{"start":305.455,"end":325.076,"text":"因為這次的地震是7.2級那剛剛在提到他就算被貼黃單他修繕之後他是基本上是安全無虞但安全無虞他如果能夠做進一步的耐震補強的話他可能耐震的能力會比原本好"},{"start":325.777,"end":340.197,"text":"但是並不代表說他這個修繕之後恢復可以去居住他有安全的規律但是這一次因為地震是真的蠻大的是不是應該要加上除了修繕恢復原狀之後一定要內政補強"},{"start":341.138,"end":369.53,"text":"才可以解除這個環境問題。」那這個對實際的住戶可能會產生很大的問題所以我們就要可能適度的編列相當多的經費下去協助輔導有沒有這個討論我們現在輔導的機制都有不過剛剛特別提到因為這是經費經費也有經費也有可是現在牽扯到因為這是私人的財產那他的安全並無虞建物的安全並無虞"},{"start":369.85,"end":396.029,"text":"那他要不要進一步補強這個是住戶他們必須要自己決定的所以我們要提出誘因嘛本來這個內政補強可能我們超過30年以上的大樓那曾經是被列為黃丹那他如果經過修山之後沒問題但是我們如果再加上內政補強我這邊可以補助你多少的經費讓你來做這些內政補強的話我想這個才是今天可以討論的重點是"},{"start":397.871,"end":418.364,"text":"委員關係現在因為機制都有那有關你提到誘因的部分我想這個本來我們就可以來檢討謝謝那高雄市、台北市我們六都裡面屋齡超過30年以上的這些集合式住宅其實才是現在我們急著必須要繼續來討論的這些重點那繼續要討論當然我們鼓勵這個危老都更我們鼓勵可能"},{"start":425.337,"end":451.235,"text":"在災難中可能會比較容易受損或者是造成災害的這些住宅我們可以有更多的誘因可以讓他來做都更可是目前為止的話如果針對現在的這些相關的這些集合式住宅的補助的話我們認為還是不夠另外就是針對這一些居民的安置我們認為政府後端還需要很多很多的努力比如說"},{"start":452.816,"end":481.308,"text":"我的選區右倉有超過40年的它大概是五層樓的一個社區當地這個地方是商武的這些用地非常具有價值那也有很多開發商有可能有意願來進駐但是遇到最後的問題還是居民他除了他本身的這些坪數的兌換之外其實最主要就是他在都跟這段時間的安置的問題"},{"start":482.588,"end":508.993,"text":"都更這段時間安置的問題沒有辦法達成一個共識它會造成所有現在全台灣包含臺北市、新北市包含高雄市的這些危勞都更的進度緩慢所以是不是署長我們就這一方面來做一些加強繼續來努力希望這些危勞都更的狀況在臺灣可以進一步有一些比較明顯的推動來署長"},{"start":512.355,"end":521.446,"text":"跟委員報告因為其實我們在歷次的經驗裡面大致上大概爭執點就是你的那個都更計畫裡面"},{"start":522.469,"end":542.11,"text":"你要把這個住戶的租金大概算多久這是第一個第二個就是可不可以放到社會住宅其實以現在的獨耕來講6年8年也是很正常的對對所以這個都是個別計畫裡面是可以檢討因為這個送到這個審議委員會裡面是可以討論的但是過去的經驗看起來都編的偏少"},{"start":542.891,"end":561.008,"text":"都編了篇少,大概都是只有編兩年多兩年或兩年半你如果又要放到社會住宅那個是更大的一個題目所以我才說那個是要另外一個檢討但是我們一般都還是希望他可以放到都跟計畫裡面整個去送審核那這個部分如果我們來檢討如果有需要我們在法規上"},{"start":562.068,"end":579.558,"text":"我覺得國土署還是比較上層的這些規範要怎麼樣更放寬讓民眾更有誘因讓這些開發有可能可以完成這是我們必須要去努力的目標也謝謝部長這一年多來對於內政部的這些努力謝謝辛苦"}]}}}}