{"id":151143,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151143","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e76c352edbea0dc46bd5be8c4a3d24463f8ba9b0039caa7a68ee19690b6fa94555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"11:48:56 - 11:58:33","影片長度":"00:09:37","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助、重建規劃及補助方式」及「從東華實驗室失火事件檢討災害防救之完備化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-11"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":577,"end_time":"2024-04-15T11:58:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T11:48:56+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1222,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（11時49分）麻煩請消防署署長。"],["主席：有請消防署署長。"],["蕭署長煥章：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，關於我們的化學救災，我想要請問一下署長，環境部的環境事故專業技術小組目前都是24小時輪班，是不是？"],["蕭署長煥章：是，我們地方只要發生化學災害事故，119中心會跟化學署的應變中心做一個聯繫，同時化學署應變中心也會派遣它的人員到現場做配合跟處理。"],["張委員宏陸：對，它也會派遣人員，那環境部現在總共有多少人在裡面？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們大概總共有200位、有10隊兩中心24小時值班。"],["張委員宏陸：但是在發生事情之後，是不是這些值班的人員要有人到現場？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：在有些人到現場之後，有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們都會有備勤人員，就是在平常輪3班的時候就會有備勤。"],["張委員宏陸：我的問題是在發生像東華大學這種化學災害的時候，有的人要馬上去啊！對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：那你們輪值中心的人是不是就少了？"],["謝署長燕儒：因為我們有10隊，可以就近去……"],["張委員宏陸：你回答我的問題，我當然知道你有10隊啊！是不是那些人派出去了，對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：那你們現行的運作有沒有馬上補足人？"],["謝署長燕儒：現行的運作就會……我們出勤的會有出勤的，一般值班……"],["張委員宏陸：你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好了，如果沒有，我現在不是要究責，我們是要解決問題啊！對不對？你有沒有發現一個問題？如果是在臺灣同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題，當然我們不希望有這種事情發生，但是如果同時間發生，你第一組人、值班人員派出去了，如果有第二件發生的時候，是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去？"],["謝署長燕儒：的確會受影響。"],["張委員宏陸：是不是？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！我問你的就是這個嘛！對不對？那你就回答我就好了，我又沒有要究責啊！對不對？那這個問題我覺得我們要補足，我們要補足這個問題，我們當然不希望有這種事情發生，但是你不能避免，尤其有可能在工業區裡面或什麼地方，可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠，那你一組人就不夠處理了，對不對？我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦，我們應該適度的去擴編，我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的，而不是你們輪值的人。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：如果真的有事情，只有輪值的人會根本來不及啊！對不對？你覺得這個部分要不要這樣補？"],["謝署長燕儒：是，這個我們來檢討把它納進來，將來規劃增加這一部分的準備。"],["張委員宏陸：好，我一直覺得對於這一塊，我們不希望遇到，但我們都沒有去思考到這個點。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：尤其像這一次我們看到，如果你能夠第一個到現場然後趕快處理，我覺得有時候可能事情不會這麼嚴重，可能會比較好一點，畢竟這些都是專業的，我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足，好不好？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：可能之前大家沒有想到，但是這一點要補足，好不好？拜託！"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：可以嗎？"],["謝署長燕儒：是，可以。"],["張委員宏陸：可以喔？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們來規劃。"],["張委員宏陸：好，這是你說的喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：大概要多久的時間？"],["謝署長燕儒：我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面可以先來檢討，就是既有的部分。"],["張委員宏陸：不是啦！你說新年度的計畫，我是問你多久啦！"],["謝署長燕儒：請委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃，然後再跟您報告，好不好？"],["張委員宏陸：我跟你講，一個月你要做得到喔！我現在不是在逼你，你要做得到才能跟我講，你不要跟我說一個月，然後我來問你，你卻說沒辦法喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：不是，我是說規劃的情形，因為這個可能要整個……"],["張委員宏陸：我要的是解決事情，我又不是要規劃，我又不是要寫碩士論文。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：要規劃我也可以規劃啊！對不對？你認為多久可以解決這個問題？"],["謝署長燕儒：因為這個牽涉到報院計畫內容的變更，所以可能……"],["張委員宏陸：不要跟我講那些啦！我在行政單位也待十幾年了，因為這個問題大家比較沒有注意到，但是我認為是蠻迫切需要的，所以我才問你大概要多少時間，我沒有跟你下期限啊！你現在可以好好想想大概要多少時間，你不要跟我講那些若有似無、空的東西啊！"],["謝署長燕儒：是，我想我們半年內來規劃好不好？"],["張委員宏陸：好，這是你說的喔！我沒有給你壓力喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：沒有錯。"],["張委員宏陸：半年喔？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。蕭署長，另外我想請教一下，當然大家都不願意看到地震，但是我這一次有特別注意到，其實我們臺灣都有搜救犬，不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫、受損的房屋，像這一次有一些是在戶外、在山裡、在溪裡，我們的搜救犬所著重的訓練方向好像跟這個比較不一樣，所以這一次感覺上搜救犬就會比較吃力，牠的工作負荷會比較重，署長，你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊？"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員針對搜救犬的垂詢，搜救犬目前真的誠如委員所說有兩大區塊，一個就是都市地震的搜救，即IRO這個區塊的應變跟處理，目前這個路已經走很久，所以臺灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經大概有到位……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，我們也是IRO的成員。"],["蕭署長煥章：另外是德國BRH，三年前已經開始在做交流，今年也把路徑搜索，就是剛剛委員垂詢的，一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊，今年也開始認證，也有搜救犬認證完成，搜救犬認證完成的數量這部分再跟委員回報，目前已經開始在處理這個區塊。我們也發現這個問題，但是地震搜救的原理跟路徑搜救的原理大概是一致的，就是找到人的位置，所以這次花蓮地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬，但是牠有發揮牠預期的路徑搜救的狀況；當然，路徑搜救的區塊，我們會強化執行這個區塊，謝謝委員垂詢。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！我沒有說你們沒有達到目標，我是說我覺得這個部分應該要多一點啦！"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["張委員宏陸：預防未來，好不好？"],["蕭署長煥章：瞭解，感謝委員。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。召委，不好意思，我再請國土署署長。"],["主席：有請吳署長，謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，這次花蓮地震，我們看到報導，現在有很多房屋都是受損的，當然這是地方政府的權責，不過，你有沒有掌握他們對一些受損的，有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施？"],["吳署長欣修：有。"],["張委員宏陸：它有沒有來跟你要錢？"],["吳署長欣修：報告委員，現在都還在調查中，但是現在有一些比較明確的，我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動耐震補強的輔導團，已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶逐棟、逐棟都約出來，然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修繕或耐震補強，我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起啟動做這些事情，也就是說，我們會請地方政府儘快，可以的話就排出來，當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理，如果需要我們耐震補強的輔導團，我們都會下去協助他們來做逐案的說明。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，我今天為什麼特別問你這個問題？當然這是地方政府的權責，但我們要看它有沒有做好啦！"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得我們要看它有沒有做好，因為你也不知道什麼時候會再發生地震，我們要擔心的是這個，如果你沒有補強好的話，雖然這次沒事，但它現在已經很脆弱了，下一次如果有該怎麼辦？我們當然不希望發生，我們要監督地方政府要把它補強好，我希望……"],["吳署長欣修：對於紅、黃單的追蹤還有強制輔導，這個我們會跟地方政府直接談。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得這一塊很重要好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝張宏陸委員的質詢，謝謝，也謝謝3位署長。繼續請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-11","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張智倫","黃捷","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","丁學忠","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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\"長\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 566.053, \"end\": 566.153, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 566.153, \"end\": 566.353, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 566.353, \"end\": 566.453, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 566.453, \"end\": 566.513, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 566.513, \"end\": 566.533, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,122 --> 00:00:12,564\n麻煩請消防署署長有請消防署署長你好來署長剛好啦齁其實我有一個齁我們這個化學救災齁其實我想要請問一下齁這個署長我們現在的這個\n\n2\n00:00:34,934 --> 00:00:43,024\n這個環境部跟我們這邊他這個環境事故專業技術小組他裡面現在目前都是24小時輪班對不對\n\n3\n00:00:46,416 --> 00:01:08,466\n我們地方只要發生化學災害事故119中心會跟化學署的應變中心再做一個聯繫那這同時化學署這邊的應變中心他也會派遣他的人員到現場做配合跟出庭對他也會派遣人員那環境部你們現在總共有多少人在裡面我們大概有大概總共有200位有10對2中心\n\n4\n00:01:13,429 --> 00:01:26,437\n24小時值班但如果發生了事情之後是不是這些人值班的人員有的人也要到現場對阿有人到現場之後勒有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員\n\n5\n00:01:28,161 --> 00:01:43,556\n我們都會有被請人員就是說在平常三班的時候我的問題是發生了比如說像東華大學這種化學災害的時候有的人要馬上去啊對不對那你的輪值中心的人是不是就少了\n\n6\n00:01:45,072 --> 00:01:59,358\n因為我們有10隊可以就近你回答我的問題我當然知道你有10隊阿是不是那些人派出去了對不對阿那個勒有沒有馬上補足人現行的運作\n\n7\n00:02:01,469 --> 00:02:28,471\n現行的運作我們出勤的會有出勤的你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好沒有我現在不是要救責我們是要解決問題啊對不對你有沒有發現一個問題如果是在台灣同時間當然我們不希望有這種事情發生同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題你第一組人你值班人員派出去了\n\n8\n00:02:29,554 --> 00:02:53,968\n如果有第二件發生的時候是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去喔的確會受影響是不是對嘛我問你的就是這個嘛對不對那你就回答我就好啦我沒有究責啊對不對那這個問題我覺得我們要補足欸我們要補足這個問題欸我們當然不希望有這種事情發生但你不能避免\n\n9\n00:02:55,530 --> 00:03:21,425\n尤其有可能在工業區域裡面或什麼的可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠那你一組人就不夠處理了喔對不對我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦但我們應該適度的去擴編我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的而不是你們輪值的人你輪值的人你根本沒有如果真的有事情你根本來不及啊\n\n10\n00:03:22,318 --> 00:03:47,040\n對不對你覺得這個要不要這樣補是這我們來檢討來把它納進來將來把它規劃增加這部分的準備我一直覺得這一塊可能我們不希望遇到但我們都沒有去思考到這個點尤其像這一次的這個我們看到這個如果你能夠第一個到現場然後能夠處理我覺得有時候可能事情不會\n\n11\n00:03:48,541 --> 00:04:13,539\n這麼嚴重可能會比較好一點啊畢竟這些都是專業的我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足啦好不好可能之前大家沒有想到但這一點要補足好不好拜託老師可以喔對可以可以喔我們來規劃好啊你現在是你說的喔要大概多久時間我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面年度計畫裡面我們就可以先來檢討\n\n12\n00:04:15,427 --> 00:04:42,915\n不是啦,你新年度的紀錄我是問你多久啦這份委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃跟你報告好不好我跟你講喔,一個月你要做得到我現在不是在逼你喔你要是做得到的你才跟我講喔你不要跟我說一個月然後我來問你你說沒辦法規劃的清醒啦我是說規劃因為這個可能要整個我要的是解決事情我又不是規劃我又不是要寫授誌論文\n\n13\n00:04:44,608 --> 00:04:48,701\n那規劃我也可以規劃啊對不對你認為多久可以解決這個問題\n\n14\n00:04:51,326 --> 00:05:16,684\n因為這個牽涉到抱怨計畫的內容的變更不要跟我講那些啦我行政單位也待十幾年了啦我只是想要因為這個問題比較大家沒有注意到但我認為是蠻迫切需要的所以我才問你大概多少時間我沒有給你下期限啊你現在可以好好想一想大概多少時間啊你不要跟我講一些那個若有似乎的空的東西啊\n\n15\n00:05:18,206 --> 00:05:23,539\n我講我們半年內來規劃好不好好你說的喔我沒有給你壓力喔沒有錯半年喔是好謝謝那個蕭處長\n\n16\n00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:52,145\n另外我想請教一下當然這個地震大家都不願意看到但這次我特別有注意到我們台灣的搜救犬其實我們都有不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫在受損的房屋像現在這一次有一些是在戶外\n\n17\n00:05:53,585 --> 00:06:12,697\n在山裡在溪裡好像我們的收救權這一方面我們著重的方向跟這個比較不一樣所以這一次感覺上收救權就會比較吃力他的工作負荷會比較重署長你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊\n\n18\n00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:31,729\n感謝委員針對搜救犬的催省搜救犬目前有兩大區塊一個就是都市地震的搜救IRO區塊應變跟處理目前這個路已經走很久所以台灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經\n\n19\n00:06:33,070 --> 00:06:55,218\n我知道我們也是IHO的成員另外BH就德國BH在三年前已經開始在做交流那今年也把就是路徑搜索就跟委員槌尋的一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊今年也開始認證也有搜救權認證完成這個搜救權認證完成的數量在跟委員回報目前已經開始在處理這個區塊我們也發現這個問題但是\n\n20\n00:06:58,499 --> 00:07:24,156\n地震的搜救原理跟路徑搜救原理大概是一致的找到人的位置所以目前的這次荒林地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬但是他有發揮他預期的路徑搜救的一個狀況當然路徑搜救的區塊我們會強化來執行這個區塊我知道了我沒有說你們沒有達到目標我是說你們應該這個部分我覺得應該要多一點啦這個預防\n\n21\n00:07:28,599 --> 00:07:34,729\n要來啊好不好感謝委員好謝謝那不好意思召委我再請那個國土署署長沒有請署長謝謝\n\n22\n00:07:40,543 --> 00:08:04,818\n那個署長其實這次花蓮那個現在的房屋我們看到報導那其實有很多都是受損的那當然這是地方政府的權責不過你有沒有掌握說那他們對一些受損的有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施他有沒有來跟你要錢\n\n23\n00:08:06,538 --> 00:08:16,782\n報告就是說現在因為都還在調查中但是現在有一些比較明確的那我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動這個內政部牆的這個輔導團已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶開始就沒\n\n24\n00:08:23,765 --> 00:08:48,080\n主動主動都約出來然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修章或內政補強這我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起來啟動做這些事情那這樣也就是說我們會請地方政府盡快可以的話排出來當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理如果需要我們的這個內政補強的輔導團我們都會下去協助他們來做主案的一個說明\n\n25\n00:08:49,180 --> 00:09:15,642\n署長我今天為什麼要特別問你這個當然這是地方政府的權責但我們要看他有沒有做好我覺得我們要看他有沒有做好因為你也不知道什麼時候再發生地震我們要擔心的是這個那如果你沒有補強好的話這次沒事他現在已經很脆弱了那你下一次如果有我們當然不希望發生那怎麼辦那我們要讓監督地方政府要把他補強好我覺得我\n\n26\n00:09:17,924 --> 00:09:26,533\n我希望對紅黃丹的這個追蹤追蹤還有強制輔導這個我們會來跟地方政府直接談我覺得這一塊很重要啦好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝署長兩位署長三位署長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9122\t12564\t麻煩請消防署署長有請消防署署長你好來署長剛好啦齁其實我有一個齁我們這個化學救災齁其實我想要請問一下齁這個署長我們現在的這個\n34934\t43024\t這個環境部跟我們這邊他這個環境事故專業技術小組他裡面現在目前都是24小時輪班對不對\n46416\t68466\t我們地方只要發生化學災害事故119中心會跟化學署的應變中心再做一個聯繫那這同時化學署這邊的應變中心他也會派遣他的人員到現場做配合跟出庭對他也會派遣人員那環境部你們現在總共有多少人在裡面我們大概有大概總共有200位有10對2中心\n73429\t86437\t24小時值班但如果發生了事情之後是不是這些人值班的人員有的人也要到現場對阿有人到現場之後勒有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員\n88161\t103556\t我們都會有被請人員就是說在平常三班的時候我的問題是發生了比如說像東華大學這種化學災害的時候有的人要馬上去啊 對不對那你的輪值中心的人是不是就少了\n105072\t119358\t因為我們有10隊可以就近你回答我的問題我當然知道你有10隊阿是不是那些人派出去了對不對阿那個勒有沒有馬上補足人現行的運作\n121469\t148471\t現行的運作我們出勤的會有出勤的你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好沒有我現在不是要救責我們是要解決問題啊對不對你有沒有發現一個問題如果是在台灣同時間當然我們不希望有這種事情發生同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題你第一組人你值班人員派出去了\n149554\t173968\t如果有第二件發生的時候是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去喔的確會受影響是不是對嘛我問你的就是這個嘛對不對那你就回答我就好啦我沒有究責啊對不對那這個問題我覺得我們要補足欸我們要補足這個問題欸我們當然不希望有這種事情發生但你不能避免\n175530\t201425\t尤其有可能在工業區域裡面或什麼的可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠那你一組人就不夠處理了喔對不對我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦但我們應該適度的去擴編我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的而不是你們輪值的人你輪值的人你根本沒有如果真的有事情你根本來不及啊\n202318\t227040\t對不對 你覺得這個要不要這樣補是 這我們來檢討來把它納進來將來把它規劃增加這部分的準備我一直覺得這一塊可能我們不希望遇到但我們都沒有去思考到這個點尤其像這一次的這個我們看到這個如果你能夠第一個到現場然後能夠處理我覺得有時候可能事情不會\n228541\t253539\t這麼嚴重可能會比較好一點啊畢竟這些都是專業的我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足啦好不好可能之前大家沒有想到但這一點要補足好不好拜託老師可以喔對可以可以喔我們來規劃好啊你現在是你說的喔要大概多久時間我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面年度計畫裡面我們就可以先來檢討\n255427\t282915\t不是啦,你新年度的紀錄我是問你多久啦這份委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃跟你報告好不好我跟你講喔,一個月你要做得到我現在不是在逼你喔你要是做得到的你才跟我講喔你不要跟我說一個月然後我來問你你說沒辦法規劃的清醒啦我是說規劃因為這個可能要整個我要的是解決事情我又不是規劃我又不是要寫授誌論文\n284608\t288701\t那規劃我也可以規劃啊對不對你認為多久可以解決這個問題\n291326\t316684\t因為這個牽涉到抱怨計畫的內容的變更不要跟我講那些啦我行政單位也待十幾年了啦我只是想要因為這個問題比較大家沒有注意到但我認為是蠻迫切需要的所以我才問你大概多少時間我沒有給你下期限啊你現在可以好好想一想大概多少時間啊你不要跟我講一些那個若有似乎的空的東西啊\n318206\t323539\t我講我們半年內來規劃好不好好你說的喔我沒有給你壓力喔沒有錯半年喔是好謝謝那個蕭處長\n330000\t352145\t另外我想請教一下當然這個地震大家都不願意看到但這次我特別有注意到我們台灣的搜救犬其實我們都有不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫在受損的房屋像現在這一次有一些是在戶外\n353585\t372697\t在山裡在溪裡好像我們的收救權這一方面我們著重的方向跟這個比較不一樣所以這一次感覺上收救權就會比較吃力他的工作負荷會比較重署長你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊\n376170\t391729\t感謝委員針對搜救犬的催省搜救犬目前有兩大區塊一個就是都市地震的搜救IRO區塊應變跟處理目前這個路已經走很久所以台灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經\n393070\t415218\t我知道我們也是IHO的成員另外BH就德國BH在三年前已經開始在做交流那今年也把就是路徑搜索就跟委員槌尋的一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊今年也開始認證也有搜救權認證完成這個搜救權認證完成的數量在跟委員回報目前已經開始在處理這個區塊我們也發現這個問題但是\n418499\t444156\t地震的搜救原理跟路徑搜救原理大概是一致的找到人的位置所以目前的這次荒林地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬但是他有發揮他預期的路徑搜救的一個狀況當然路徑搜救的區塊我們會強化來執行這個區塊我知道了我沒有說你們沒有達到目標我是說你們應該這個部分我覺得應該要多一點啦這個預防\n448599\t454729\t要來啊好不好感謝委員好謝謝那不好意思召委我再請那個國土署署長沒有請署長謝謝\n460543\t484818\t那個署長其實這次花蓮那個現在的房屋我們看到報導那其實有很多都是受損的那當然這是地方政府的權責不過你有沒有掌握說那他們對一些受損的有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施他有沒有來跟你要錢\n486538\t496782\t報告就是說現在因為都還在調查中但是現在有一些比較明確的那我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動這個內政部牆的這個輔導團已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶開始就沒\n503765\t528080\t主動主動都約出來然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修章或內政補強這我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起來啟動做這些事情那這樣也就是說我們會請地方政府盡快可以的話排出來當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理如果需要我們的這個內政補強的輔導團我們都會下去協助他們來做主案的一個說明\n529180\t555642\t署長我今天為什麼要特別問你這個當然這是地方政府的權責但我們要看他有沒有做好我覺得我們要看他有沒有做好因為你也不知道什麼時候再發生地震我們要擔心的是這個那如果你沒有補強好的話這次沒事他現在已經很脆弱了那你下一次如果有我們當然不希望發生那怎麼辦那我們要讓監督地方政府要把他補強好我覺得我\n557924\t566533\t我希望對紅黃丹的這個追蹤追蹤還有強制輔導這個我們會來跟地方政府直接談我覺得這一塊很重要啦好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝署長兩位署長三位署長謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請消防署署長有請消防署署長你好來署長剛好啦齁其實我有一個齁我們這個化學救災齁其實我想要請問一下齁這個署長我們現在的這個\n這個環境部跟我們這邊他這個環境事故專業技術小組他裡面現在目前都是24小時輪班對不對\n我們地方只要發生化學災害事故119中心會跟化學署的應變中心再做一個聯繫那這同時化學署這邊的應變中心他也會派遣他的人員到現場做配合跟出庭對他也會派遣人員那環境部你們現在總共有多少人在裡面我們大概有大概總共有200位有10對2中心\n24小時值班但如果發生了事情之後是不是這些人值班的人員有的人也要到現場對阿有人到現場之後勒有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員\n我們都會有被請人員就是說在平常三班的時候我的問題是發生了比如說像東華大學這種化學災害的時候有的人要馬上去啊 對不對那你的輪值中心的人是不是就少了\n因為我們有10隊可以就近你回答我的問題我當然知道你有10隊阿是不是那些人派出去了對不對阿那個勒有沒有馬上補足人現行的運作\n現行的運作我們出勤的會有出勤的你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好沒有我現在不是要救責我們是要解決問題啊對不對你有沒有發現一個問題如果是在台灣同時間當然我們不希望有這種事情發生同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題你第一組人你值班人員派出去了\n如果有第二件發生的時候是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去喔的確會受影響是不是對嘛我問你的就是這個嘛對不對那你就回答我就好啦我沒有究責啊對不對那這個問題我覺得我們要補足欸我們要補足這個問題欸我們當然不希望有這種事情發生但你不能避免\n尤其有可能在工業區域裡面或什麼的可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠那你一組人就不夠處理了喔對不對我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦但我們應該適度的去擴編我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的而不是你們輪值的人你輪值的人你根本沒有如果真的有事情你根本來不及啊\n對不對 你覺得這個要不要這樣補是 這我們來檢討來把它納進來將來把它規劃增加這部分的準備我一直覺得這一塊可能我們不希望遇到但我們都沒有去思考到這個點尤其像這一次的這個我們看到這個如果你能夠第一個到現場然後能夠處理我覺得有時候可能事情不會\n這麼嚴重可能會比較好一點啊畢竟這些都是專業的我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足啦好不好可能之前大家沒有想到但這一點要補足好不好拜託老師可以喔對可以可以喔我們來規劃好啊你現在是你說的喔要大概多久時間我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面年度計畫裡面我們就可以先來檢討\n不是啦,你新年度的紀錄我是問你多久啦這份委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃跟你報告好不好我跟你講喔,一個月你要做得到我現在不是在逼你喔你要是做得到的你才跟我講喔你不要跟我說一個月然後我來問你你說沒辦法規劃的清醒啦我是說規劃因為這個可能要整個我要的是解決事情我又不是規劃我又不是要寫授誌論文\n那規劃我也可以規劃啊對不對你認為多久可以解決這個問題\n因為這個牽涉到抱怨計畫的內容的變更不要跟我講那些啦我行政單位也待十幾年了啦我只是想要因為這個問題比較大家沒有注意到但我認為是蠻迫切需要的所以我才問你大概多少時間我沒有給你下期限啊你現在可以好好想一想大概多少時間啊你不要跟我講一些那個若有似乎的空的東西啊\n我講我們半年內來規劃好不好好你說的喔我沒有給你壓力喔沒有錯半年喔是好謝謝那個蕭處長\n另外我想請教一下當然這個地震大家都不願意看到但這次我特別有注意到我們台灣的搜救犬其實我們都有不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫在受損的房屋像現在這一次有一些是在戶外\n在山裡在溪裡好像我們的收救權這一方面我們著重的方向跟這個比較不一樣所以這一次感覺上收救權就會比較吃力他的工作負荷會比較重署長你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊\n感謝委員針對搜救犬的催省搜救犬目前有兩大區塊一個就是都市地震的搜救IRO區塊應變跟處理目前這個路已經走很久所以台灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經\n我知道我們也是IHO的成員另外BH就德國BH在三年前已經開始在做交流那今年也把就是路徑搜索就跟委員槌尋的一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊今年也開始認證也有搜救權認證完成這個搜救權認證完成的數量在跟委員回報目前已經開始在處理這個區塊我們也發現這個問題但是\n地震的搜救原理跟路徑搜救原理大概是一致的找到人的位置所以目前的這次荒林地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬但是他有發揮他預期的路徑搜救的一個狀況當然路徑搜救的區塊我們會強化來執行這個區塊我知道了我沒有說你們沒有達到目標我是說你們應該這個部分我覺得應該要多一點啦這個預防\n要來啊好不好感謝委員好謝謝那不好意思召委我再請那個國土署署長沒有請署長謝謝\n那個署長其實這次花蓮那個現在的房屋我們看到報導那其實有很多都是受損的那當然這是地方政府的權責不過你有沒有掌握說那他們對一些受損的有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施他有沒有來跟你要錢\n報告就是說現在因為都還在調查中但是現在有一些比較明確的那我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動這個內政部牆的這個輔導團已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶開始就沒\n主動主動都約出來然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修章或內政補強這我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起來啟動做這些事情那這樣也就是說我們會請地方政府盡快可以的話排出來當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理如果需要我們的這個內政補強的輔導團我們都會下去協助他們來做主案的一個說明\n署長我今天為什麼要特別問你這個當然這是地方政府的權責但我們要看他有沒有做好我覺得我們要看他有沒有做好因為你也不知道什麼時候再發生地震我們要擔心的是這個那如果你沒有補強好的話這次沒事他現在已經很脆弱了那你下一次如果有我們當然不希望發生那怎麼辦那我們要讓監督地方政府要把他補強好我覺得我\n我希望對紅黃丹的這個追蹤追蹤還有強制輔導這個我們會來跟地方政府直接談我覺得這一塊很重要啦好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝署長兩位署長三位署長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.122 --> 00:12.564\n麻煩請消防署署長有請消防署署長你好來署長剛好啦齁其實我有一個齁我們這個化學救災齁其實我想要請問一下齁這個署長我們現在的這個\n\n00:34.934 --> 00:43.024\n這個環境部跟我們這邊他這個環境事故專業技術小組他裡面現在目前都是24小時輪班對不對\n\n00:46.416 --> 01:08.466\n我們地方只要發生化學災害事故119中心會跟化學署的應變中心再做一個聯繫那這同時化學署這邊的應變中心他也會派遣他的人員到現場做配合跟出庭對他也會派遣人員那環境部你們現在總共有多少人在裡面我們大概有大概總共有200位有10對2中心\n\n01:13.429 --> 01:26.437\n24小時值班但如果發生了事情之後是不是這些人值班的人員有的人也要到現場對阿有人到現場之後勒有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員\n\n01:28.161 --> 01:43.556\n我們都會有被請人員就是說在平常三班的時候我的問題是發生了比如說像東華大學這種化學災害的時候有的人要馬上去啊對不對那你的輪值中心的人是不是就少了\n\n01:45.072 --> 01:59.358\n因為我們有10隊可以就近你回答我的問題我當然知道你有10隊阿是不是那些人派出去了對不對阿那個勒有沒有馬上補足人現行的運作\n\n02:01.469 --> 02:28.471\n現行的運作我們出勤的會有出勤的你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好沒有我現在不是要救責我們是要解決問題啊對不對你有沒有發現一個問題如果是在台灣同時間當然我們不希望有這種事情發生同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題你第一組人你值班人員派出去了\n\n02:29.554 --> 02:53.968\n如果有第二件發生的時候是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去喔的確會受影響是不是對嘛我問你的就是這個嘛對不對那你就回答我就好啦我沒有究責啊對不對那這個問題我覺得我們要補足欸我們要補足這個問題欸我們當然不希望有這種事情發生但你不能避免\n\n02:55.530 --> 03:21.425\n尤其有可能在工業區域裡面或什麼的可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠那你一組人就不夠處理了喔對不對我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦但我們應該適度的去擴編我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的而不是你們輪值的人你輪值的人你根本沒有如果真的有事情你根本來不及啊\n\n03:22.318 --> 03:47.040\n對不對你覺得這個要不要這樣補是這我們來檢討來把它納進來將來把它規劃增加這部分的準備我一直覺得這一塊可能我們不希望遇到但我們都沒有去思考到這個點尤其像這一次的這個我們看到這個如果你能夠第一個到現場然後能夠處理我覺得有時候可能事情不會\n\n03:48.541 --> 04:13.539\n這麼嚴重可能會比較好一點啊畢竟這些都是專業的我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足啦好不好可能之前大家沒有想到但這一點要補足好不好拜託老師可以喔對可以可以喔我們來規劃好啊你現在是你說的喔要大概多久時間我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面年度計畫裡面我們就可以先來檢討\n\n04:15.427 --> 04:42.915\n不是啦,你新年度的紀錄我是問你多久啦這份委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃跟你報告好不好我跟你講喔,一個月你要做得到我現在不是在逼你喔你要是做得到的你才跟我講喔你不要跟我說一個月然後我來問你你說沒辦法規劃的清醒啦我是說規劃因為這個可能要整個我要的是解決事情我又不是規劃我又不是要寫授誌論文\n\n04:44.608 --> 04:48.701\n那規劃我也可以規劃啊對不對你認為多久可以解決這個問題\n\n04:51.326 --> 05:16.684\n因為這個牽涉到抱怨計畫的內容的變更不要跟我講那些啦我行政單位也待十幾年了啦我只是想要因為這個問題比較大家沒有注意到但我認為是蠻迫切需要的所以我才問你大概多少時間我沒有給你下期限啊你現在可以好好想一想大概多少時間啊你不要跟我講一些那個若有似乎的空的東西啊\n\n05:18.206 --> 05:23.539\n我講我們半年內來規劃好不好好你說的喔我沒有給你壓力喔沒有錯半年喔是好謝謝那個蕭處長\n\n05:30.000 --> 05:52.145\n另外我想請教一下當然這個地震大家都不願意看到但這次我特別有注意到我們台灣的搜救犬其實我們都有不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫在受損的房屋像現在這一次有一些是在戶外\n\n05:53.585 --> 06:12.697\n在山裡在溪裡好像我們的收救權這一方面我們著重的方向跟這個比較不一樣所以這一次感覺上收救權就會比較吃力他的工作負荷會比較重署長你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊\n\n06:16.170 --> 06:31.729\n感謝委員針對搜救犬的催省搜救犬目前有兩大區塊一個就是都市地震的搜救IRO區塊應變跟處理目前這個路已經走很久所以台灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經\n\n06:33.070 --> 06:55.218\n我知道我們也是IHO的成員另外BH就德國BH在三年前已經開始在做交流那今年也把就是路徑搜索就跟委員槌尋的一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊今年也開始認證也有搜救權認證完成這個搜救權認證完成的數量在跟委員回報目前已經開始在處理這個區塊我們也發現這個問題但是\n\n06:58.499 --> 07:24.156\n地震的搜救原理跟路徑搜救原理大概是一致的找到人的位置所以目前的這次荒林地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬但是他有發揮他預期的路徑搜救的一個狀況當然路徑搜救的區塊我們會強化來執行這個區塊我知道了我沒有說你們沒有達到目標我是說你們應該這個部分我覺得應該要多一點啦這個預防\n\n07:28.599 --> 07:34.729\n要來啊好不好感謝委員好謝謝那不好意思召委我再請那個國土署署長沒有請署長謝謝\n\n07:40.543 --> 08:04.818\n那個署長其實這次花蓮那個現在的房屋我們看到報導那其實有很多都是受損的那當然這是地方政府的權責不過你有沒有掌握說那他們對一些受損的有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施他有沒有來跟你要錢\n\n08:06.538 --> 08:16.782\n報告就是說現在因為都還在調查中但是現在有一些比較明確的那我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動這個內政部牆的這個輔導團已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶開始就沒\n\n08:23.765 --> 08:48.080\n主動主動都約出來然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修章或內政補強這我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起來啟動做這些事情那這樣也就是說我們會請地方政府盡快可以的話排出來當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理如果需要我們的這個內政補強的輔導團我們都會下去協助他們來做主案的一個說明\n\n08:49.180 --> 09:15.642\n署長我今天為什麼要特別問你這個當然這是地方政府的權責但我們要看他有沒有做好我覺得我們要看他有沒有做好因為你也不知道什麼時候再發生地震我們要擔心的是這個那如果你沒有補強好的話這次沒事他現在已經很脆弱了那你下一次如果有我們當然不希望發生那怎麼辦那我們要讓監督地方政府要把他補強好我覺得我\n\n09:17.924 --> 09:26.533\n我希望對紅黃丹的這個追蹤追蹤還有強制輔導這個我們會來跟地方政府直接談我覺得這一塊很重要啦好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝署長兩位署長三位署長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.122,"end":12.564,"text":"麻煩請消防署署長有請消防署署長你好來署長剛好啦齁其實我有一個齁我們這個化學救災齁其實我想要請問一下齁這個署長我們現在的這個"},{"start":34.934,"end":43.024,"text":"這個環境部跟我們這邊他這個環境事故專業技術小組他裡面現在目前都是24小時輪班對不對"},{"start":46.416,"end":68.466,"text":"我們地方只要發生化學災害事故119中心會跟化學署的應變中心再做一個聯繫那這同時化學署這邊的應變中心他也會派遣他的人員到現場做配合跟出庭對他也會派遣人員那環境部你們現在總共有多少人在裡面我們大概有大概總共有200位有10對2中心"},{"start":73.429,"end":86.437,"text":"24小時值班但如果發生了事情之後是不是這些人值班的人員有的人也要到現場對阿有人到現場之後勒有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員"},{"start":88.161,"end":103.556,"text":"我們都會有被請人員就是說在平常三班的時候我的問題是發生了比如說像東華大學這種化學災害的時候有的人要馬上去啊 對不對那你的輪值中心的人是不是就少了"},{"start":105.072,"end":119.358,"text":"因為我們有10隊可以就近你回答我的問題我當然知道你有10隊阿是不是那些人派出去了對不對阿那個勒有沒有馬上補足人現行的運作"},{"start":121.469,"end":148.471,"text":"現行的運作我們出勤的會有出勤的你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好沒有我現在不是要救責我們是要解決問題啊對不對你有沒有發現一個問題如果是在台灣同時間當然我們不希望有這種事情發生同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題你第一組人你值班人員派出去了"},{"start":149.554,"end":173.968,"text":"如果有第二件發生的時候是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去喔的確會受影響是不是對嘛我問你的就是這個嘛對不對那你就回答我就好啦我沒有究責啊對不對那這個問題我覺得我們要補足欸我們要補足這個問題欸我們當然不希望有這種事情發生但你不能避免"},{"start":175.53,"end":201.425,"text":"尤其有可能在工業區域裡面或什麼的可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠那你一組人就不夠處理了喔對不對我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦但我們應該適度的去擴編我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的而不是你們輪值的人你輪值的人你根本沒有如果真的有事情你根本來不及啊"},{"start":202.318,"end":227.04,"text":"對不對 你覺得這個要不要這樣補是 這我們來檢討來把它納進來將來把它規劃增加這部分的準備我一直覺得這一塊可能我們不希望遇到但我們都沒有去思考到這個點尤其像這一次的這個我們看到這個如果你能夠第一個到現場然後能夠處理我覺得有時候可能事情不會"},{"start":228.541,"end":253.539,"text":"這麼嚴重可能會比較好一點啊畢竟這些都是專業的我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足啦好不好可能之前大家沒有想到但這一點要補足好不好拜託老師可以喔對可以可以喔我們來規劃好啊你現在是你說的喔要大概多久時間我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面年度計畫裡面我們就可以先來檢討"},{"start":255.427,"end":282.915,"text":"不是啦,你新年度的紀錄我是問你多久啦這份委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃跟你報告好不好我跟你講喔,一個月你要做得到我現在不是在逼你喔你要是做得到的你才跟我講喔你不要跟我說一個月然後我來問你你說沒辦法規劃的清醒啦我是說規劃因為這個可能要整個我要的是解決事情我又不是規劃我又不是要寫授誌論文"},{"start":284.608,"end":288.701,"text":"那規劃我也可以規劃啊對不對你認為多久可以解決這個問題"},{"start":291.326,"end":316.684,"text":"因為這個牽涉到抱怨計畫的內容的變更不要跟我講那些啦我行政單位也待十幾年了啦我只是想要因為這個問題比較大家沒有注意到但我認為是蠻迫切需要的所以我才問你大概多少時間我沒有給你下期限啊你現在可以好好想一想大概多少時間啊你不要跟我講一些那個若有似乎的空的東西啊"},{"start":318.206,"end":323.539,"text":"我講我們半年內來規劃好不好好你說的喔我沒有給你壓力喔沒有錯半年喔是好謝謝那個蕭處長"},{"start":330,"end":352.145,"text":"另外我想請教一下當然這個地震大家都不願意看到但這次我特別有注意到我們台灣的搜救犬其實我們都有不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫在受損的房屋像現在這一次有一些是在戶外"},{"start":353.585,"end":372.697,"text":"在山裡在溪裡好像我們的收救權這一方面我們著重的方向跟這個比較不一樣所以這一次感覺上收救權就會比較吃力他的工作負荷會比較重署長你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊"},{"start":376.17,"end":391.729,"text":"感謝委員針對搜救犬的催省搜救犬目前有兩大區塊一個就是都市地震的搜救IRO區塊應變跟處理目前這個路已經走很久所以台灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經"},{"start":393.07,"end":415.218,"text":"我知道我們也是IHO的成員另外BH就德國BH在三年前已經開始在做交流那今年也把就是路徑搜索就跟委員槌尋的一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊今年也開始認證也有搜救權認證完成這個搜救權認證完成的數量在跟委員回報目前已經開始在處理這個區塊我們也發現這個問題但是"},{"start":418.499,"end":444.156,"text":"地震的搜救原理跟路徑搜救原理大概是一致的找到人的位置所以目前的這次荒林地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬但是他有發揮他預期的路徑搜救的一個狀況當然路徑搜救的區塊我們會強化來執行這個區塊我知道了我沒有說你們沒有達到目標我是說你們應該這個部分我覺得應該要多一點啦這個預防"},{"start":448.599,"end":454.729,"text":"要來啊好不好感謝委員好謝謝那不好意思召委我再請那個國土署署長沒有請署長謝謝"},{"start":460.543,"end":484.818,"text":"那個署長其實這次花蓮那個現在的房屋我們看到報導那其實有很多都是受損的那當然這是地方政府的權責不過你有沒有掌握說那他們對一些受損的有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施他有沒有來跟你要錢"},{"start":486.538,"end":496.782,"text":"報告就是說現在因為都還在調查中但是現在有一些比較明確的那我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動這個內政部牆的這個輔導團已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶開始就沒"},{"start":503.765,"end":528.08,"text":"主動主動都約出來然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修章或內政補強這我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起來啟動做這些事情那這樣也就是說我們會請地方政府盡快可以的話排出來當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理如果需要我們的這個內政補強的輔導團我們都會下去協助他們來做主案的一個說明"},{"start":529.18,"end":555.642,"text":"署長我今天為什麼要特別問你這個當然這是地方政府的權責但我們要看他有沒有做好我覺得我們要看他有沒有做好因為你也不知道什麼時候再發生地震我們要擔心的是這個那如果你沒有補強好的話這次沒事他現在已經很脆弱了那你下一次如果有我們當然不希望發生那怎麼辦那我們要讓監督地方政府要把他補強好我覺得我"},{"start":557.924,"end":566.533,"text":"我希望對紅黃丹的這個追蹤追蹤還有強制輔導這個我們會來跟地方政府直接談我覺得這一塊很重要啦好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝張宏祿委員的質詢謝謝謝謝也謝謝署長兩位署長三位署長謝謝"}]}}}}