{"id":151152,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151152","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e499287ce40d21944dfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a6905b1f1929327f535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"12:41:39 - 12:45:59","影片長度":"00:04:20","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":260,"end_time":"2024-04-15T12:45:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T12:41:39+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1211,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（12時41分）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，謝謝。感謝主席，讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘，我一定會趕快地用這4分鐘，在時限之內結束。因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係，所以我想問幾件事情。第一個，當然就是今天大家一直在講的海尋的部分，就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來，除了電子錢包之外，其實還有一個滿重要的一點，是在於說，他們換網域其實換得非常快，我以前在追這個內容農場的時候，它有時候一天可以換一百次都沒問題，所以如果真的要追的話，可能要追廣告，這個部分要怎麼做，可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情。"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["沈委員伯洋：另外一件事情，今天最主要是在講數位相關，我稍微抓了一下數據，我發現目前非網路的犯罪其實也沒有減少，也就是說，網路這個部分，其實跟性剝削相關的滿恆定的，所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係。我再往下去追，發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到，目前還是第三款最多，畢竟在第三款中，它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關，所以它可能會比較多，那如果它真的比較多的話，去細究它本身的這個原因，這部分已經從五成二，一直漲到今年，已經到大概八成六、八成八左右，所以我現在想問的事情，就是在我們的犯罪學裡面，會去做這些拍攝的，大部分前面都有誘拐，誘拐大概占了快一半，誘拐之前又會有取得信任、所以從取得信任一直到誘拐、一直到拍攝，其實是有一個流程的存在，如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情檔下來的話，其實檔誘拐變得非常重要。目前我們在線上誘拐的領域裡面會去分類到底有哪一些人比較容易被誘拐，以及不同的兒童被誘拐的型態又不太一樣，所以我想要建議衛福部，因為今天講數位，所以我只說線上誘拐，要去預防線上誘拐的話，是不是要先針對不同的兒童，要有不同的預防方案？尤其是自願冒險者跟易受害者，誘拐的形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的，這是第一點。不好意思因為時間不夠，所以就往下講。這個是誘拐的流程圖，中間那一塊，最重要的還是依附的需求，因為現在線上誘拐很多，甚至可能有快一半，這些人的社經地位反而是好的，所以最主要反而不是因為使用網路等等的原因，而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了，他的依附需求不夠，就容易被線上誘拐，容易被線上誘拐的人，進入到現在最多的部分，已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分，所以要怎麼解決前面的依附需求，就變得非常重要。教育部也有提到要怎麼去做一些相關的教育方式，所以，我稍微整理了一下文獻，我們今天面對詐騙集團，假設你先告訴孩子說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式，他哪一天接到電話，聽說過有ATM轉帳的詐騙方式，他第一個反應一定會出來，懷疑這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法。現在有做相關的語意分析，大量分析目前有在做線上誘拐的人，他們都會有劇本，有對話紀錄，把那個對話紀錄去做分析，以現在的標準，甚至可以用AI去做，也就是說，可以套用線上誘拐的慣用句型，去稱讚那種欠缺依附的小孩，把那個稱讚的語法全部整理出來，整理出來之後，在教育預防的時候，就把別人用這種語法怎麼講，去告訴小孩子，所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候，他就會知道這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法，就不容易被拐騙。在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話，我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底要加重多少的刑度，要海尋到多少的程度，因為這可能可以擂掉一半的案件，然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範，這是我的一個建議。相關的討論可能要等到後面，因為時間不夠，所以很不好意思沒有讓部長回答到，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員。","我們現在用餐，1時15分再繼續開會。","休息（12時46分）","繼續開會（13時19分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會，請伍麗華委員進行質詢。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主席！請法務部。"],["主席：我們請法務部副司長。"],["簡副司長美慧：委員好！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：副司長您好！根據報導，這一次眾所矚目的「創意私房」網路論壇已經存在超過14年，請教一下，這個案子目前已經起訴多少人？"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，我們依據手邊的資料，目前臺北地檢署已經起訴11個人。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：已起訴11個人，那它是屬於組織犯罪嗎？"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，對於組織犯罪，在組織犯罪防制條例第二條裡有相關規定，就是說要有3個人以上，有實施強暴、脅迫、詐術或者是恐嚇，或者是他所做的那個行為是不法的行為……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那這個案子是怎麼認定？"],["簡副司長美慧：就我們看到的資料，檢察官對這個案件應該是沒有依組織犯罪防制條例作為起訴的罪名。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那它用什麼起訴？"],["簡副司長美慧：兒少性剝削防制條例。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們現在會在這邊討論就是因為它最大的問題是抓不到人，我們知道的是報導說其實這個網路論壇在過去有被抓到過，當時也查出有287位受害者，但是創辦人始終沒有被抓到，最重要的原因就是他會更換網域IP位址然後繼續運作，像這一次查到之後又把它封印，我要請教的是除了等事件爆發封印外，有沒有思考其他的制裁作為？"],["簡副司長美慧：跟委員報告，關於封網這個部分，在現在的制度規定之下大概有兩種途徑，一個是檢察官在偵辦犯罪的過程當中，把這個網路的部分當成是一個可以作為犯罪的證據，就比照刑事訴訟法的規定向法院聲請扣押網域的名稱，就是把它當成是一個扣押，事實上「創意私房」這個案件在過去檢察官偵辦的時候，北檢檢察官也有提出事證向法院聲請扣押，也獲得法院裁准，這是第一種途徑。第二個途徑就是目的事業主管機關按照兒少性剝削防制條例的規定來封網，這兩個途徑事實上是可以並行不悖的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：就是很有效的意思嗎？"],["簡副司長美慧：在現行法制之下有這樣子的兩種途徑可以來做處理。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：像這類網站，大家都說IP通常都是在境外，請問現在有在做跨國合作嗎？"],["簡副司長美慧：因為它是在境外，封網的意思就是讓國內的人沒有辦法看到那個網站的內容。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那我們究竟能不能夠抓到源頭？"],["簡副司長美慧：抓到源頭這個部分還是要由檢察官按照個案的事證還有相關的卷證資料，看看可不可以向上溯源。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那你們有幾成把握？"],["簡副司長美慧：我們檢察官一定全力以赴，只是每個案件的證據狀況還有客觀的條件不一樣……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們今天來這邊其實就是因為抓不到，大家都很苦惱，所以必須要在這邊來瞭解一下。我們知道我們警政署各警局的婦幼隊其實有把兒童及少年保護、性侵害這種都列入他們的業務範疇，我們也看到今天各部會的業報都有提到說要去配合做什麼、做什麼，比如法務部或是衛福部、警政署、數發部、教育部、通傳會等等部會都有說要怎麼做、怎麼做，那麼請問能不能夠成立一個具有性平知能跟數位偵查能力的專責單位？"],["簡副司長美慧：就法務部的部分，就是我們地檢署的部分，在處理像兒少性剝削防制條例或者是婦幼案件時，我們有婦幼專責的檢察官。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們看到你們的業報中提到法務部有一個科技偵查中心……"],["簡副司長美慧：在高檢署。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那現在我們為什麼抓不到？因為它是透過虛擬貨幣，根據螢幕上這個流程圖，其實我們可以很清楚的看到他是透過現金購買虛擬貨幣，然後去購買這樣的一個影片，付給這個生產者虛擬貨幣，然後再去轉換成他的現金。現在的重點是我們缺乏一個工具分析流向的辨識管道，可是這次「報導者」也有告訴我們，其實他們用民間單位的免費軟體分析是可以做得到的，他們查到有89個受益錢包收受這樣一個虛擬貨幣，請問高檢署、調查局，你們有沒有採購這種幣流分析的工具？"],["簡副司長美慧：報告委員，高檢署有採購這個幣流分析的工具，也有派檢察事務官去受訓，所以是可以分析的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，有分析工具也要有人會用，去年我們看到警政署要特訓500名的幣流分析師，請問你們也有這樣的規劃嗎？"],["簡副司長美慧：在這個部分，高檢署是有派檢察事務官去受訓。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為時間的關係，對於今天會議安排的主題即數位技術普及所造成的兒少性剝削案件的增加，在境內犯罪部分，金管會跟檢調成立的金融資料調閱電子平台可以加速詐騙的調查，我們也希望你們比照銀行帳戶的作法去建立一個虛擬資產的。","其實我今天也想要問一下衛福部部長，請主席讓我再問一個問題。我們國家人權委員會在2020年公布兒少性剝削案例大概有1,696件，其中私密兒少影片類佔8成，所以這個部分其實真的是很嚴重。我們國內目前還沒有虛擬貨幣專法，但事實上這個很重要，因為它可以有效地查緝犯罪者，請問部長對這個部分支不支持？"],["薛部長瑞元：報告委員，對虛擬貨幣這部分我不在行，所以我很難去做評論。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：但是你贊不贊成，如果有一個法可以幫助我們有效地查緝到犯罪者？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然，如果是有這樣……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：希望你要支持，因為我們有很多人一直在要求。最後我還要請部長盤點一下，因為我們這次很生氣的原因是當我們比較同樣的犯罪類型，比如美國對於持有未成年性影像者是處10年以下徒刑，12歲以下的兒少性影像是處20年以下徒刑；韓國則對持有者處3年以下徒刑，可是我們去年修了法，結果對於這一次事件還讓人家變成緩起訴，等於沒有犯罪紀錄，然後只是繳庫，我們都覺得沒有辦法接受！請問衛福部這邊有什麼作法嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，臺灣目前對此是處1年以下有期徒刑，這個是學日本跟韓國的，剛剛委員提到的如果是刑度比較高的，通常都不只是單純持有，他還有其他……。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：有沒有修法方向？還是不必修了，只要靠教育？"],["薛部長瑞元：對於這部分，如果委員的意見都是希望提高刑責的話，我們沒有意見。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝！我希望以上所提能在一個月內提供書面報告。謝謝部長！謝謝主席！"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝！","接下來我們請麥玉珍委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李彥秀","王鴻薇","黃秀芳","范雲","楊曜","劉建國","陳瑩","陳培瑜","牛煦庭","陳冠廷","羅智強","何欣純"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2024-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就\n「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132901_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"151152","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151152","tool":"pyannote","id":"151152-pyannote"},"job_id":"VqAZaWZ0SRmf0yu8","queued_at":"2024-06-01 10:19:29","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-01 10:19:29","msg":"downloading 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'會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）\n發言委員'"},{"time":"2024-06-01 10:20:03","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-01 10:20:03","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 6.164, \"end\": 6.986, \"text\": \"那有請,謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝好有請部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 6.164, \"end\": 6.285, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 6.285, \"end\": 6.365, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 6.365, \"end\": 6.405, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 6.405, \"end\": 6.505, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 6.505, \"end\": 6.525, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 6.525, \"end\": 6.605, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 6.605, \"end\": 6.745, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": 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\"因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 153.044, \"end\": 153.444, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 153.444, \"end\": 153.824, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 153.824, \"end\": 154.204, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"誘\"}, {\"word\": \"拐\", \"start\": 154.204, \"end\": 154.404, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 154.404, \"end\": 154.644, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 154.644, \"end\": 155.245, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 155.245, \"end\": 155.425, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 155.425, \"end\": 155.605, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 155.605, \"end\": 155.725, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 155.725, \"end\": 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00:00:37,316\n大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快\n\n3\n00:00:38,036 --> 00:00:57,914\n我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少\n\n4\n00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:13,312\n也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多\n\n5\n00:01:13,912 --> 00:01:34,415\n但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐\n\n6\n00:01:35,015 --> 00:02:03,038\n右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣\n\n7\n00:02:03,778 --> 00:02:32,464\n所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求\n\n8\n00:02:33,044 --> 00:03:01,651\n因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說\n\n9\n00:03:02,871 --> 00:03:15,724\n畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法\n\n10\n00:03:18,566 --> 00:03:42,525\n現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來\n\n11\n00:03:43,266 --> 00:04:11,263\n然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議\n\n12\n00:04:12,023 --> 00:04:12,144\n謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6164\t6986\t那有請,謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝好有請部長\n14350\t37316\t大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快\n38036\t57914\t我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少\n59076\t73312\t也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多\n73912\t94415\t但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐\n95015\t123038\t右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣\n123778\t152464\t所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求\n153044\t181651\t因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說\n182871\t195724\t畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法\n198566\t222525\t現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來\n223266\t251263\t然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議\n252023\t252144\t謝謝主席\n","txt":"那有請,謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝好有請部長\n大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快\n我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少\n也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多\n但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐\n右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣\n所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求\n因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說\n畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法\n現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來\n然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議\n謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.164 --> 00:06.986\n那有請,謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝好有請部長\n\n00:14.350 --> 00:37.316\n大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快\n\n00:38.036 --> 00:57.914\n我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少\n\n00:59.076 --> 01:13.312\n也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多\n\n01:13.912 --> 01:34.415\n但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐\n\n01:35.015 --> 02:03.038\n右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣\n\n02:03.778 --> 02:32.464\n所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求\n\n02:33.044 --> 03:01.651\n因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說\n\n03:02.871 --> 03:15.724\n畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法\n\n03:18.566 --> 03:42.525\n現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來\n\n03:43.266 --> 04:11.263\n然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議\n\n04:12.023 --> 04:12.144\n謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.164,"end":6.986,"text":"那有請,謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝好有請部長"},{"start":14.35,"end":37.316,"text":"大家好謝謝主席讓我可以再來這邊講4分鐘我一定會趕快的把這個4分鐘在實現之內結束那因為這個跟我的專業比較有關係所以呢我是想問幾件事情第一個當然就是今天大家一直在講說海巡的部分就是說能不能夠把這個影片找出來那除了電子錢包之外其實還有一個蠻重要的一點是在於說他們換網域其實換得非常快"},{"start":38.036,"end":57.914,"text":"我以前在追這個內容農場的時候他有時候一天可以換100次都沒問題所以如果真的要追的話可能要追廣告所以這個部分要怎麼做可能之後我再跟衛福部討論這件事情那另外一件事情是因為今天最主要是在講數位相關那我稍微抓了一下數據我發現目前這個右邊這個非網路的犯罪其實他也沒有減少"},{"start":59.076,"end":73.312,"text":"也就是說網路這個部分其實跟我們現在性剝削相關的其實蠻恆定的所以我覺得應該要去細究到底是哪一塊才是跟數位最有關係那我再往下去追的話發現也是可以在衛福部的報告看到目前還是第三款最多"},{"start":73.912,"end":94.415,"text":"但因為畢竟第三款它的定義本身就跟數位比較有強烈的相關所以它可能會比較多那如果它真的比較多的話呢去細究它本身的這個原因它從5乘2一直漲到今年已經到8乘8了嘛大概8乘6、8乘8左右所以我現在想問的事情就是因為在我們的犯罪學裡面會去做這些拍攝的大部分前面都有右拐"},{"start":95.015,"end":123.038,"text":"右拐大概佔了可能快一半右拐之前又會有取得信任所以從取得信任一直到右拐一直到拍攝它其實是有一個流程的存在所以如果我們今天真的要把拍攝這件事情擋下來的話其實擋右拐其實變得非常的重要所以這個我就先跳過我們目前在線上右拐裡面在我們的領域裡面會去分類就是到底有哪一些人比較容易被右拐然後以及不同的兒童被右拐他的右拐的形態又不太一樣"},{"start":123.778,"end":152.464,"text":"所以我在這邊會想要建議衛福部就是說呢如果我們先把因為今天講數位嘛所以我這邊只放線上誘拐就是線上誘拐現在是不是能夠去要做預防的話是不是要先針對不同的兒童要有不同的預防方案因為尤其是後面那兩者自願冒險者跟易受害者他跟誘拐的那個形式跟故事是會完全不一樣的這是第一點不好意思因為時間不夠所以就把它講好了那這個是誘拐的這個這個流程圖啦那中間那一塊最重要的還是依附的需求"},{"start":153.044,"end":181.651,"text":"因為現在線上誘拐很多甚至可能有快一半他的社經地位反而是好的所以他最主要反而不是因為這個使用網路等等的原因而是因為爸媽的陪伴太少了那他的依附需求不夠就容易被線上誘拐容易被線上誘拐就進入到我們現在最多已經占到快八成的那一個拍攝的部分所以要怎麼去解決前面的依附需求就變得非常的重要那今天教育部也有提到就是說要怎麼去做一些相關的教育的方式所以我去稍微整理了一下文獻就是在於說"},{"start":182.871,"end":195.724,"text":"畢竟就像我們今天在面對詐騙集團假設你先告訴他講說現在ATM轉帳是最流行的方式他哪一天接到電話聽說有這個ATM的這個詐騙方式他第一個反應一定會出來就認為說這個會不會就是最新的詐騙手法"},{"start":198.566,"end":222.525,"text":"現在我們有做語意分析就是我列在右上方的他們大量的把目前有在做線上誘拐的人他們都有劇本有對話記錄把那個對話記錄去做分析之後以現在的標準甚至可以用AI也就是說他可以把他線上誘拐的那個劇情他怎麼去稱讚那種欠缺衣服的小孩那個稱讚的語法把它全部整理出來"},{"start":223.266,"end":251.263,"text":"然後整理出來之後他在教育預防的時候他就把別人用這種語法怎麼講去告訴小孩子所以小孩子以後遇到這種讚美的語法的時候他就會知道說這就是最典型的線上誘拐的語法他就不容易被拐騙在拐騙這一個方面先停下來的話我們也就不用一直去執著在後面到底我們要加重多少的刑度我們要海巡到多少的程度因為這可能可以擋掉一半的案件量然後之後再透過其他修法的方式去做後續的規範這是我的一個建議"},{"start":252.023,"end":252.144,"text":"謝謝主席"}]}}}}