{"id":151155,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151155","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e610042fb4c6b0492dfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a6ebd2ef2fddbaddb65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"13:27:34 - 13:33:01","影片長度":"00:05:27","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":327,"end_time":"2024-04-15T13:33:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T13:27:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1264,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（13時27分）有請衛福部。"],["主席：請部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好！"],["麥委員玉珍：謝謝部長！身為一個單親媽媽，所以我很擔心我們的孩子，希望他健康成長，但是在這個過程中，很多藝人利用小孩子對藝人的偶像心理去做這樣子的一個傷害，所以我們所有的家長要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待，這也是政府應該要盡的義務。請問部長認為衛福部對取締兒少性剝削方面的力度足夠嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，在目前來講的話，其實在去年就曾經修過一次法，對於這些有關兒少性剝削部分的刑責都有提高，現在的問題就是像剛剛提到的對單純持有這部分是不是要提高刑度，這個都可以來做討論。但是另外一方面，如果提高了刑度但是沒有辦法確實抓到這些犯罪的人的話，那也是白搭啦！因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為，要去偵查不是那麼容易，所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以達到。"],["麥委員玉珍：我是認為整體的罰則太輕了，雖然我們有修法，但真的有追蹤和取締嗎？對買賣、拍攝、持有還有從被害人身上取得利益的這些壞人，我們的法制沒辦法去罰他，也就是說雖然我們有修法，但刑度真的太輕了，所以大家就會對罰則的制度有質疑，請問部長覺得要調多少才能是罰了更有效？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分其實必須要法務部這邊來做整體評估，因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪類型去做比較，不能說突然這個部分罰得特別重，其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪變成罰得比較輕，這樣也不合理。"],["麥委員玉珍：當然我們是要依法讓各部會跨部會去處理，這樣才能達到效果，但是我們的基層公務人員比如警察就是要去執法，要幫忙去抓捕，但是到了上面這邊的罰款太輕了，又沒有達到這個效果的話，會變成第一線的執法人員真的很辛苦。","剛才部長有提到，我們要請NCC來回答，因為網路無法去抓他們，導致我們未成年人的影像被流傳，所以不要讓任何人去買賣，這個是很重要的。在網路上這樣子公開拍賣未成年人的影像還有賺進大量錢財的論壇即使下架，但是因為我們的罰款太輕了，他就換另外一個名字、換另外一個管道，現在很多都是把基地台放在東南亞，這樣子我們就沒辦法去追溯，請問我們NCC對這種情形要如何處罰、如何取締，才不會讓我們的小孩受到二度傷害？因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的。"],["詹主任文旭：跟委員報告，NCC依照兒少法第四十六條，邀集了相關部會包括衛福部、數位部還有相關機關，委託民間iWIN就是網際網路內容防護機構在做防護，iWIN防護機構若收到檢舉，如果是性私密影像的檢舉，就會移到性影像中心去處理，如果需要裁處、追查犯罪，還是會移送到警政機關或檢調機關去處理。"],["麥委員玉珍：我想請問的是我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程，但是跨部會有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情？還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪個部會、哪個部會處理、哪個部會會做，但是到最後誰要去追蹤？這是要有效的來去處理，不止是轉介或各部會都說「我有做、我有做」，我們要的是有效果。以上報告，謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝！","接下來我們請徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩委員不在。","請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:14,991\n跟委員報告在目前來講的話其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說像這剛剛提到單純持有的那是不是要提高刑度這都可以來做討論\n\n4\n00:01:16,451 --> 00:01:40,034\n但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到\n\n5\n00:01:41,226 --> 00:02:08,768\n我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對\n\n6\n00:02:10,929 --> 00:02:19,640\n法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效\n\n7\n00:02:21,054 --> 00:02:40,752\n這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理\n\n8\n00:02:41,631 --> 00:03:05,486\n當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦\n\n9\n00:03:06,886 --> 00:03:14,571\n對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們回法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的\n\n10\n00:03:35,985 --> 00:03:36,165\n發言員發言員\n\n11\n00:03:56,125 --> 00:04:11,267\n這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會去取締才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的\n\n12\n00:04:13,206 --> 00:04:13,226\n報告\n\n13\n00:04:43,606 --> 00:05:11,565\n但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤\n\n14\n00:05:12,245 --> 00:05:12,506\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2079\t28010\t有請衛福部好請部長好謝謝部長身為一個單親媽媽所以很擔心我們的孩子就是我們希望他健康成長但是這個過程中很多就是藝人利用這樣子的小孩子對\n29550\t51497\t這個藝人的偶像來去做這樣子的一個傷害所以我們要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待所有的家長所以也是政府應該要盡責的義務請問部長認為衛福部對起地兒少性剝削的方面的力度有足夠嗎?\n53164\t74991\t跟委員報告在目前來講的話其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說像這剛剛提到單純持有的那是不是要提高刑度這都可以來做討論\n76451\t100034\t但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到\n101226\t128768\t我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對\n130929\t139640\t法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效\n141054\t160752\t這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理\n161631\t185486\t當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦\n186886\t194571\t對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們回法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的\n215985\t216165\t發言員發言員\n236125\t251267\t這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會去取締才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的\n253206\t253226\t報告\n283606\t311565\t但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤\n312245\t312506\t主席\n","txt":"有請衛福部好請部長好謝謝部長身為一個單親媽媽所以很擔心我們的孩子就是我們希望他健康成長但是這個過程中很多就是藝人利用這樣子的小孩子對\n這個藝人的偶像來去做這樣子的一個傷害所以我們要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待所有的家長所以也是政府應該要盡責的義務請問部長認為衛福部對起地兒少性剝削的方面的力度有足夠嗎?\n跟委員報告在目前來講的話其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說像這剛剛提到單純持有的那是不是要提高刑度這都可以來做討論\n但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到\n我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對\n法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效\n這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理\n當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦\n對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們回法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的\n發言員發言員\n這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會去取締才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的\n報告\n但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.079 --> 00:28.010\n有請衛福部好請部長好謝謝部長身為一個單親媽媽所以很擔心我們的孩子就是我們希望他健康成長但是這個過程中很多就是藝人利用這樣子的小孩子對\n\n00:29.550 --> 00:51.497\n這個藝人的偶像來去做這樣子的一個傷害所以我們要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待所有的家長所以也是政府應該要盡責的義務請問部長認為衛福部對起地兒少性剝削的方面的力度有足夠嗎?\n\n00:53.164 --> 01:14.991\n跟委員報告在目前來講的話其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說像這剛剛提到單純持有的那是不是要提高刑度這都可以來做討論\n\n01:16.451 --> 01:40.034\n但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到\n\n01:41.226 --> 02:08.768\n我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對\n\n02:10.929 --> 02:19.640\n法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效\n\n02:21.054 --> 02:40.752\n這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理\n\n02:41.631 --> 03:05.486\n當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦\n\n03:06.886 --> 03:14.571\n對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們回法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的\n\n03:35.985 --> 03:36.165\n發言員發言員\n\n03:56.125 --> 04:11.267\n這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會去取締才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的\n\n04:13.206 --> 04:13.226\n報告\n\n04:43.606 --> 05:11.565\n但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤\n\n05:12.245 --> 05:12.506\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.079,"end":28.01,"text":"有請衛福部好請部長好謝謝部長身為一個單親媽媽所以很擔心我們的孩子就是我們希望他健康成長但是這個過程中很多就是藝人利用這樣子的小孩子對"},{"start":29.55,"end":51.497,"text":"這個藝人的偶像來去做這樣子的一個傷害所以我們要保護他們不受到任何不合理的對待所有的家長所以也是政府應該要盡責的義務請問部長認為衛福部對起地兒少性剝削的方面的力度有足夠嗎?"},{"start":53.164,"end":74.991,"text":"跟委員報告在目前來講的話其實在去年曾經就修過一次法那對於這一些有關於兒少性剝削的部分的話那行者都有提高啦那現在的問題就是說像這剛剛提到單純持有的那是不是要提高刑度這都可以來做討論"},{"start":76.451,"end":100.034,"text":"但是另外一方面的話是那如果說提高刑度但是如果沒有辦法確實的抓到這一些犯罪的人那也是白搭啦因為在網路世界裡面的犯罪行為的話要去偵查不是那麼容易所以一定要有一些數位技術來輔助才可以搭得到"},{"start":101.226,"end":128.768,"text":"我是認為是整體的法則是太輕了還有說我們有修法但是有追蹤有真的有去起地嗎還有就是說買賣拍攝持有還有被害人的身上就是起地的利益所以這些壞人這些就是我們的法制沒辦法去法他是說我們要修法因為真的太輕了所以大家就會對"},{"start":130.929,"end":139.64,"text":"法者的制度我們部長覺得要調多少才能是法的就是更有效"},{"start":141.054,"end":160.752,"text":"這個部分的話其實是整體而言的話必須要像是法務部這邊來做整體評估因為這要跟各種不同的犯罪的類型去做比較不能說突然這個特別重那其他的一般社會認為說比較嚴重的犯罪的話罰的變成比較輕這樣也不合理"},{"start":161.631,"end":185.486,"text":"當然我們是要依法來去說各部會、跨部會來去處理這樣子才達到效果嘛但是說我們的基層的公務人員像警察就是要去執法要去幫忙去抓但是到我們上面這邊的罰款又再清了又沒有達到這個效果變成是要在第一線的執法是真的很辛苦啦"},{"start":186.886,"end":194.571,"text":"對所以說我剛才我們部長有講說我們要請NCC來去回答一下說因為網路無法去抓他們回法所以這樣子的話我們未成年的影像所以在流傳不要任何人就是要去買賣這個是很重要的但是呢我們請問一下在網路上的這樣子公開的拍賣的未成年的影像還有賺進大量的"},{"start":215.985,"end":216.165,"text":"發言員發言員"},{"start":236.125,"end":251.267,"text":"這樣子的話說我們沒辦法去追溯這樣子我們NCC要如何就是要去罰還有才不會去取締才不會讓我們的小孩子惡度傷害因為這個是我們NCC要去把關的"},{"start":253.206,"end":253.226,"text":"報告"},{"start":283.606,"end":311.565,"text":"但是如果需要採取追查犯罪他還是會移送到那個警政機關或檢調機關我想要請問說是說我們是有這樣子的一個順序跟流程但是跨部會有沒有沒有緊急或者是共同真的去處理這件事情還是說我們只是說我們有跨哪一個部會啊哪一個部會處理啊哪一個部會會做啊但是到最後誰要去追蹤"},{"start":312.245,"end":312.506,"text":"主席"}]}}}}