{"id":151159,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151159","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e07654988cf03c383dfefb6b28ae2d84df8ba9b0039caa7a60630bd2d7ebc433a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"13:55:33 - 14:08:20","影片長度":"00:12:47","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、內政部、法務部、教育部、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、文化部就「數位技術普及造成兒少性剝削案件增加之因應作為與現行政策檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-12"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":767,"end_time":"2024-04-15T14:08:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T13:55:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1387,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（13時55分）謝謝主席，我們先請法務部副司長。"],["主席：好，請簡美慧副司長。"],["簡副司長美慧：委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：副司長好，最近這幾個禮拜，大家一直在討論有關兒少性剝削的事，我想先請教的是，我們很多委員也有提出來，就是針對這個持有的部分，是不是要加重刑責。我想請教，如果說是單純購買或者是單純持有，這個法定的刑責可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑。我想請教的是，因為這個網路上面是有客製化的，有的是有客製化的服務，就是會員可以付高額的價錢，然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片。那我想請教就是說，如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話，我們認為他是不是製造罪的幫助犯，就是共犯？"],["簡副司長美慧：向委員報告，刑法認定這個共同正犯有一定的要件，就是說他要有犯意的共同或者是行為的分擔。"],["黃委員秀芳：那他這個客製化應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦！"],["簡副司長美慧：這個部分，我想可能還是要具體個案按照案件的證據來做判斷……"],["黃委員秀芳：是。"],["簡副司長美慧：假如，我是說假如那個客觀的證據可以顯示，會涉及幫助犯或者是教唆犯的話，那當然就會有這個部分罪責的問題。假設沒有的話，還是會論兒少性剝削防制條例第三十九條第一項的無故持有罪，這要看具體的證據來論斷。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們希望就是說，在這一次有很多委員也有提出來，就是針對持有的部分，也希望加重其刑，可是我認為，如果說是加重的話，其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝，這個刑責好像又相等、差不多，這好像又覺得怪怪的。如果是針對客製的這個部分，我覺得未來你們應該也可以去討論一下，就是說如果他是用客製要求去製作什麼樣的影片，那是違反兒少性剝削的，我覺得應該可以加重其刑。"],["簡副司長美慧：這個部分就是具體個案去判斷。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，好。另外我想請教的就是針對黃子佼這一件，就是說緩起訴，我們希望這種事情不要再犯。剛剛也有委員特別提到，是不是用心理輔導或心理諮商，或者是精神治療。剛剛我們的薛部長也有提到，就是說用那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商，看起來好像也沒什麼用，是這樣子嗎？部長，請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個的話，如果是好奇而去觀賞或者購買的話，這個倒是可以來做這方面的一些心理諮商、心理輔導、一些認知方面的治療，但是有一種是一而再、再而三，一直重複這種行為，這個應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常。在國外的經驗裡面是這樣，英國這一方面會安排做治療，但是他們經過幾年下來，重新再去做review，發現其實效果非常有限。美國是早就認為這種反社會人格違常大概沒有治療的成效。"],["黃委員秀芳：那怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：就用司法啊！譬如給他判刑關起來，就是這樣處理。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以就只能是這樣子的方式？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，阻隔於社會之外，讓他沒有辦法再繼續做這個事情，因為對兒少做這個事情，通常不是只有拍攝的問題，會有前面的誘引，然後接近，到後來拍攝，到後來會有一些威脅等等，甚至對兒少本身，他如果有機會的話，也會做實際上的性侵犯，所以這種人大部分都是屬於反社會人格違常。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以我們也希望針對這部分，除了剛剛部長講的，如果他是出於好奇，那當然就是要有一些心理諮商、心理輔導，甚至精神的治療，如果是反社會人格的話，那當然就是要加重其刑，希望司法部門針對這部分，也希望未來這種事情真的能夠減少。","現在網路真的非常發達，我知道連續這幾個禮拜大家都一直在討論這個議題，我再請教部長，我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心，去年司長在受訪的時候有特別提到，從112年8月15號正式上路，到10月15號衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件，有464名被害人，成案數是188件，這是當時司長講的，對嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：成案率僅有25%，到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容，112年8月15號到113年3月31號截止，扣除重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件，總共受理案件是767件，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：我對這數字稍微說明一下。全部有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩、三千件，成案的比例才是25%，裡面包括性影像跟非性影像的部分，總共大概就是這樣子。性影像的部分，就是兩、三千件裡面，目前算是767件。"],["黃委員秀芳：去年講762件，今年你講767件，那就只有增加5件，是這樣子？"],["薛部長瑞元：時間點啦，我們現在講的是有實際下架這部分，案件數是767件，但是實際下架是665件，這個是因為有足夠的資料，包括……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以你講從去年8月15號到今年3月31號，這個767件是成案的嗎？你指的是成案的？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：有報案、有申訴的總共是幾件？"],["薛部長瑞元：算起來應該是2,900件。"],["黃委員秀芳：那成案率是多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：差不多將近30%。"],["黃委員秀芳：30%。繼續再請教部長，你們有完成移除的是665件，你們講移除成功率是86.7%，你剛剛講成案率差不多30%左右而已，成案為什麼會那麼低呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：所謂的成案，所有這些兒少性剝削的案子通報進來，有一些是我們可以找得到這些性影像，可以要求它下架移除，但是有一些是找不到了，比如說沒有網址或是網址已經失效，或者是重複的案件，另外是它還沒有散佈出去……"],["黃委員秀芳：好。部長，我想請教，司長在去年受訪時有說到成案率不高有幾個原因，一個是申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人，所以有時候你們會要求申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：第二個是它的IP往往就是設在國外，所以你們要下架也有困難，有時候就是會有一些困難，沒辦法順利的移除。第三個是有時候要跟網站的業者聯繫，好像也不是那麼順利。既然有這幾個問題，從去年到今年都有這個問題，你們是不是已經有解決了？你們在去年已經遇到這些問題，你們有沒有做什麼樣的努力把這些問題解決？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們目前大概就是跟這些平台業者儘量溝通，希望他們能夠配合。"],["黃委員秀芳：他不配合的話，你怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們現在準備要做的，一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網，尤其是在國外。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長講的就是把這個網站移除、封網啦，其實現在用VPN也很容易取得網站，今天數位部也有派副司長列席，請教副司長，你們怎麼樣協助衛福部？如果衛福部這邊要移除或是強制封網，可是還是很容易取得這個網站，比如使用VPN，請教未來要怎麼解決這個問題？"],["曾副司長文方：針對網站很容易重新再復活這件事情，第一個，從機制面來看，我們可能再配合衛福部是不是讓更多的ISP業者進來。另外，在技術面是用AI的科技來降低我們行政執行的成本，這個我們也可以配合國科會來研究。不過我還是要強調，這個網站內容違法事實的認定與否，這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，我們從去年就知道有一些問題，我們也希望既然已經成立數發部，最主要也是因為要解決一些問題，所以我們希望除了衛福部，數位部也要協助境外的網路下架，另外，法務部針對刑責的部分，我覺得應該要做跨部會的討論，要不然從去年到今年問題還是一直存在，當然所有的委員都非常關心，我也希望部長針對這部分確實做一個跨部會的討論，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：好。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：接下來請范雲委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","涂權吉","盧縣一","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","林淑芬","王正旭","洪申翰","黃珊珊","黃捷","洪孟楷","張雅琳","沈伯洋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"所\", \"start\": 276.457, \"end\": 276.617, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 276.617, \"end\": 276.657, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 276.657, \"end\": 276.777, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 276.777, \"end\": 276.817, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 276.817, \"end\": 276.997, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 276.997, \"end\": 277.137, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 277.137, \"end\": 277.157, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 277.157, \"end\": 277.217, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 277.217, \"end\": 277.398, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 277.398, \"end\": 277.518, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 277.518, \"end\": 277.538, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 277.538, \"end\": 277.738, \"score\": 0.9}, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,366 --> 00:00:14,031\n謝謝主席。我們先請法務部副司長。好,請前美惠副司長。\n\n2\n00:00:15,509 --> 00:00:40,795\n委員好夫師長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個購買如果說是單純購買的話\n\n3\n00:00:45,556 --> 00:01:14,195\n或者是單純持有、購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面它是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話\n\n4\n00:01:14,995 --> 00:01:23,685\n那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯\n\n5\n00:01:25,610 --> 00:01:47,852\n像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正辦他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及\n\n6\n00:02:02,148 --> 00:02:27,414\n好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該\n\n7\n00:02:28,954 --> 00:02:45,127\n未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是好\n\n8\n00:02:46,048 --> 00:03:13,143\n那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子佼這一件就是說緩起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長\n\n9\n00:03:18,299 --> 00:03:39,488\n這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的\n\n10\n00:03:41,949 --> 00:04:10,874\n那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效\n\n11\n00:04:11,434 --> 00:04:11,534\n那怎麼辦?\n\n12\n00:04:11,534 --> 00:04:11,574\n那怎麼辦?\n\n13\n00:04:11,574 --> 00:04:11,614\n那怎麼辦?\n\n14\n00:04:36,457 --> 00:04:38,578\n所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的\n\n15\n00:04:53,046 --> 00:05:21,373\n所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要\n\n16\n00:05:22,293 --> 00:05:47,702\n真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路\n\n17\n00:05:52,184 --> 00:06:01,274\n到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳岸樹是188件對不對\n\n18\n00:06:09,170 --> 00:06:23,734\n這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止\n\n19\n00:06:27,975 --> 00:06:51,926\n那扣除、重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件對不對這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25%\n\n20\n00:06:55,448 --> 00:07:20,723\n這裏面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分。總共大概就是這樣子。然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件。這兩三千件裡面大概有764,目前算是767件。那跟去年講的那個762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件。\n\n21\n00:07:21,784 --> 00:07:30,150\n時間點,我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767,但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎?\n\n22\n00:07:49,224 --> 00:08:03,804\n你指的是成案的,那報案,就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是在2008、2009。那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已。\n\n23\n00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:26,942\n三十,好,那部長我想請教,就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛,那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說,這個成案,就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛,那成案\n\n24\n00:08:28,203 --> 00:08:48,129\n為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像的是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的\n\n25\n00:08:48,829 --> 00:09:03,486\n但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去\n\n26\n00:09:04,087 --> 00:09:33,246\n那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架\n\n27\n00:09:34,968 --> 00:09:56,663\n這個也有困難所以有時候就是會有一些困難那沒辦法順利的移除這是第二點第三點就是說我們這個有時候要跟這個網站的業者要聯繫好像也聯繫也不是那麼順利這是第三點那我想請教既然有這幾個問題從去年到今年\n\n28\n00:10:00,145 --> 00:10:02,566\n我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。\n\n29\n00:10:22,154 --> 00:10:49,607\n他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網了尤其是在國外的是那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網了那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教\n\n30\n00:10:50,507 --> 00:11:18,539\n今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題\n\n31\n00:11:21,877 --> 00:11:41,467\n這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技\n\n32\n00:11:43,028 --> 00:11:57,961\n是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定\n\n33\n00:12:17,418 --> 00:12:17,438\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6366\t14031\t謝謝主席。我們先請法務部副司長。好,請前美惠副司長。\n15509\t40795\t委員好夫師長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個購買如果說是單純購買的話\n45556\t74195\t或者是單純持有、購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面它是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話\n74995\t83685\t那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯\n85610\t107852\t像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正辦他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及\n108933\t121732\t﹗\n122148\t147414\t好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該\n148954\t165127\t未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是好\n166048\t193143\t那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子佼這一件就是說緩起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長\n198299\t219488\t這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的\n221949\t250874\t那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效\n251434\t251534\t那怎麼辦?\n251534\t251574\t那怎麼辦?\n251574\t251614\t那怎麼辦?\n276457\t278578\t所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的\n293046\t321373\t所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要\n322293\t347702\t真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路\n352184\t361274\t到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳岸樹是188件 對不對\n369170\t383734\t這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止\n387975\t411926\t那扣除、重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件對不對這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25%\n415448\t440723\t這裏面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分。總共大概就是這樣子。然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件。這兩三千件裡面大概有764,目前算是767件。那跟去年講的那個762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件。\n441784\t450150\t時間點,我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767,但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎?\n469224\t483804\t你指的是成案的,那報案,就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是在2008、2009。那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已。\n485026\t506942\t三十,好,那部長我想請教,就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛,那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說,這個成案,就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛,那成案\n508203\t528129\t為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像的是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的\n528829\t543486\t但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去\n544087\t573246\t那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架\n574968\t596663\t這個也有困難所以有時候就是會有一些困難那沒辦法順利的移除這是第二點第三點就是說我們這個有時候要跟這個網站的業者要聯繫好像也聯繫也不是那麼順利這是第三點那我想請教既然有這幾個問題從去年到今年\n600145\t602566\t我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。\n622154\t649607\t他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網了尤其是在國外的是 那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網了那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教\n650507\t678539\t今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題\n681877\t701467\t這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技\n703028\t717961\t是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定\n719002\t737398\t﹗\n737418\t737438\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們先請法務部副司長。好,請前美惠副司長。\n委員好夫師長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個購買如果說是單純購買的話\n或者是單純持有、購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面它是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話\n那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯\n像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正辦他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及\n﹗\n好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該\n未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是好\n那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子佼這一件就是說緩起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長\n這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的\n那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效\n那怎麼辦?\n那怎麼辦?\n那怎麼辦?\n所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的\n所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要\n真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路\n到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳岸樹是188件 對不對\n這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止\n那扣除、重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件對不對這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25%\n這裏面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分。總共大概就是這樣子。然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件。這兩三千件裡面大概有764,目前算是767件。那跟去年講的那個762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件。\n時間點,我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767,但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎?\n你指的是成案的,那報案,就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是在2008、2009。那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已。\n三十,好,那部長我想請教,就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛,那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說,這個成案,就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛,那成案\n為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像的是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的\n但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去\n那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架\n這個也有困難所以有時候就是會有一些困難那沒辦法順利的移除這是第二點第三點就是說我們這個有時候要跟這個網站的業者要聯繫好像也聯繫也不是那麼順利這是第三點那我想請教既然有這幾個問題從去年到今年\n我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。\n他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網了尤其是在國外的是 那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網了那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教\n今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題\n這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技\n是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定\n﹗\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.366 --> 00:14.031\n謝謝主席。我們先請法務部副司長。好,請前美惠副司長。\n\n00:15.509 --> 00:40.795\n委員好夫師長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個購買如果說是單純購買的話\n\n00:45.556 --> 01:14.195\n或者是單純持有、購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面它是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話\n\n01:14.995 --> 01:23.685\n那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯\n\n01:25.610 --> 01:47.852\n像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正辦他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及\n\n02:02.148 --> 02:27.414\n好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該\n\n02:28.954 --> 02:45.127\n未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是好\n\n02:46.048 --> 03:13.143\n那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子佼這一件就是說緩起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長\n\n03:18.299 --> 03:39.488\n這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的\n\n03:41.949 --> 04:10.874\n那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效\n\n04:11.434 --> 04:11.534\n那怎麼辦?\n\n04:11.534 --> 04:11.574\n那怎麼辦?\n\n04:11.574 --> 04:11.614\n那怎麼辦?\n\n04:36.457 --> 04:38.578\n所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的\n\n04:53.046 --> 05:21.373\n所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要\n\n05:22.293 --> 05:47.702\n真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路\n\n05:52.184 --> 06:01.274\n到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳岸樹是188件對不對\n\n06:09.170 --> 06:23.734\n這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止\n\n06:27.975 --> 06:51.926\n那扣除、重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件對不對這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25%\n\n06:55.448 --> 07:20.723\n這裏面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分。總共大概就是這樣子。然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件。這兩三千件裡面大概有764,目前算是767件。那跟去年講的那個762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件。\n\n07:21.784 --> 07:30.150\n時間點,我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767,但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎?\n\n07:49.224 --> 08:03.804\n你指的是成案的,那報案,就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是在2008、2009。那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已。\n\n08:05.026 --> 08:26.942\n三十,好,那部長我想請教,就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛,那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說,這個成案,就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛,那成案\n\n08:28.203 --> 08:48.129\n為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像的是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的\n\n08:48.829 --> 09:03.486\n但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去\n\n09:04.087 --> 09:33.246\n那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架\n\n09:34.968 --> 09:56.663\n這個也有困難所以有時候就是會有一些困難那沒辦法順利的移除這是第二點第三點就是說我們這個有時候要跟這個網站的業者要聯繫好像也聯繫也不是那麼順利這是第三點那我想請教既然有這幾個問題從去年到今年\n\n10:00.145 --> 10:02.566\n我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。\n\n10:22.154 --> 10:49.607\n他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網了尤其是在國外的是那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網了那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教\n\n10:50.507 --> 11:18.539\n今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題\n\n11:21.877 --> 11:41.467\n這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技\n\n11:43.028 --> 11:57.961\n是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定\n\n12:17.418 --> 12:17.438\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.366,"end":14.031,"text":"謝謝主席。我們先請法務部副司長。好,請前美惠副司長。"},{"start":15.509,"end":40.795,"text":"委員好夫師長好我想最近這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論有關這個兒少性剝削的事那我想請教就是說我們在很多委員也有提出來就是針對這個持有的部分是不是要加重行者那我想請教就是說在這個購買如果說是單純購買的話"},{"start":45.556,"end":74.195,"text":"或者是單純持有、購買持有那可能這個法定的行者可能就只有一年以下的有期徒刑那我想請教就是說因為這個網路上面它是有客製化的有的是有客製化的服務那就是會員可以付高額的價錢然後用客製化來製作這樣的一個影片那我想請教就是說如果是用這個客製化的持有這種影片的話"},{"start":74.995,"end":83.685,"text":"那是不是算是這個我們認為說他是不是製造罪的這個幫助犯就是共犯"},{"start":85.61,"end":107.852,"text":"像委員報告就是說刑法認定這個共同正辦他有一定的要件就是說他要有翻譯或者是翻譯的共同或者是行為的那他這個製造這個客製化這個應該就是有刻意要犯罪啦這個部分我想可能還是要具體個案按照那個就是案件的那個證據來做判斷那假如我是說假如說那個客觀的證據可以顯示說會涉及"},{"start":108.933,"end":121.732,"text":"﹗"},{"start":122.148,"end":147.414,"text":"好,我們希望就是說在這一次有很多委員也有提出來就是針對持有的部分也希望就是說加重其行可是我認為如果說是加重的話其實跟原本的製造或者是拍攝其實這個行程好像又相等差不多這好像又覺得怪怪的那我認為就是說如果是針對這個克制的這個部分我覺得應該"},{"start":148.954,"end":165.127,"text":"未來我覺得你們應該也可以去討論一下就是說如果他是用克制要求去製作什麼樣的影片那是這個違反這個兒少性剝削的我覺得應該可以這個加重期刑這個部分就是具體個案具體判斷是好"},{"start":166.048,"end":193.143,"text":"那另外我想請教就是說針對黃子佼這一件就是說緩起訴那我們希望就是說這種事情就是不要再犯那剛剛也有委員特別提到就是說那是不是用這個心理輔導或心理諮商或者是精神治療那剛剛部長我們的薛部長也有提到就是說用那個那個心理治療或心理輔導諮商好像看起來好像也沒什麼用是這樣子嗎部長好那請薛部長"},{"start":198.299,"end":219.488,"text":"這的話如果是好奇而去觀賞或購買的話倒是可以來做這一方面的一些心理諮商心理輔導一些認知方面的一些治療但是有一種它是要在在外上一直重複這種行為的"},{"start":221.949,"end":250.874,"text":"那他這一個已經應該是有所謂的反社會人格違常那在國外的經驗裡面是這樣英國這一方面有去做治療但是他們這經過幾年下來的話重新再去做一個review的話發現說其實效果非常有限美國是早就認為說這種反社會人格違常的話大概沒有治療的成效"},{"start":251.434,"end":251.534,"text":"那怎麼辦?"},{"start":251.534,"end":251.574,"text":"那怎麼辦?"},{"start":251.574,"end":251.614,"text":"那怎麼辦?"},{"start":276.457,"end":278.578,"text":"所以這種人的話他大部分都是屬於這種反社會人格違常的"},{"start":293.046,"end":321.373,"text":"所以我們也希望說針對這部分除了剛剛部長講的可能也許他是第一個如果他是出於好奇那當然就是要有一些心理諮商心理輔導甚至精神的治療那如果說是這樣子反社會人格的話那當然就是要加重期刑我們希望就是說這個司法部門針對這部分我們也希望就是說未來這種事情真的要非常真的要"},{"start":322.293,"end":347.702,"text":"真的要減少啦因為真的現在網路真的非常的發達我知道部長在連續這幾個禮拜就大家都一直在討論這個議題那我再請教部長就是說我們在112年有成立一個性影像處理中心那在去年這個司長也有特別提到在受訪的時候有特別提到就是說從112年到8月15號正式上路"},{"start":352.184,"end":361.274,"text":"到10月15日衛福部的性影像處理中心受理性影像申訴案件總共是762件464名被害人陳岸樹是188件 對不對"},{"start":369.17,"end":383.734,"text":"這是當時市長講的,對嗎?對那成案率是僅有25%那到今天我們看到衛福部的報告內容就是說112年8月15日到113年的3月31日截止"},{"start":387.975,"end":411.926,"text":"那扣除、重複、資訊不足、無性影像或者是網址失效等無效案件總共受理案件是767件對不對這數字上面我稍微說明一下全部的有關於兒少性剝削的案子大概兩三千件那成案的比例才是25%"},{"start":415.448,"end":440.723,"text":"這裏面包括現影像跟非現影像的部分。總共大概就是這樣子。然後現影像的部分的話,一共是762件。這兩三千件裡面大概有764,目前算是767件。那跟去年講的那個762件跟今年你講的767件,那就只有增加5件。"},{"start":441.784,"end":450.15,"text":"時間點,我們現在講的是說有實際下架的這部分那案件數是767,但是實際下架是665這個是因為有足夠的資料所以你講的從去年8月15日到今年的3月31日這個767件是成案的嗎?"},{"start":469.224,"end":483.804,"text":"你指的是成案的,那報案,就是說有報案有申訴的總共是幾件?應該算起來是在2008、2009。那你的成案率是多少?差不多將近30%而已。"},{"start":485.026,"end":506.942,"text":"三十,好,那部長我想請教,就是說你們有完成移除的是665件嘛,那你們講的是移除成功率是86.7%那我想請教就是說,這個成案,就是說你們成案剛剛講的差不多百分之三十左右而已嘛,那成案"},{"start":508.203,"end":528.129,"text":"為什麼會那麼低啊?所謂的成案是所有的兒少性剝削的這些案子他通報進來是通報進來之後的話有一些他是這個我們可以找得到這些現影像的是去做這個可以去要求他下架因素的"},{"start":528.829,"end":543.486,"text":"但是有一些是找不到了比如說他的網址沒有或者是網址已經失效或者是重複的案件另外一個是就是說他還沒有散佈出去"},{"start":544.087,"end":573.246,"text":"那部長我想請教就是說司長在去年的時候受訪的時候也有說到因為成案率不高嘛那有幾個原因一個是這個申訴人所提供的性影像無法確定被拍攝的人所以有時候你們會要求申訴人申訴者還要再提供更完整的資料對不對對嗎那這是第一個第二個就是說他的這個IP往往就是設在國外嘛所以你們要下架"},{"start":574.968,"end":596.663,"text":"這個也有困難所以有時候就是會有一些困難那沒辦法順利的移除這是第二點第三點就是說我們這個有時候要跟這個網站的業者要聯繫好像也聯繫也不是那麼順利這是第三點那我想請教既然有這幾個問題從去年到今年"},{"start":600.145,"end":602.566,"text":"我們目前的話大概就是跟這些平台業者那盡量去溝通啦,希望他們可以配合啦。"},{"start":622.154,"end":649.607,"text":"他不配合你咧?他不配合你怎麼辦?所以我們現在準備要做的就是說如果一旦沒有配合我們就直接封網了尤其是在國外的是 那我想請教就是說部長講的就是說把這個網站可能就是移除封網了那其實現在還有一個就是用那個VPN也是很容易取得這個網站那我想請教"},{"start":650.507,"end":678.539,"text":"今天數位部應該也有到嘛數位部也是副司長請教我們副司長就是說要怎麼樣去協助衛福部如果說衛福部這邊也就是說要移除或者是強制封網可是還是很容易可以取得這個網站可能就是使用這個VPN那未來要怎麼解決這個問題"},{"start":681.877,"end":701.467,"text":"這個部分的話就是針對這個網站很容易重新再復活的這件事情的話第一個就是我們可能在從機制面的話看是不是我們在配合這個衛福部看在是不是讓更多的ISPA者進來那另外一個在技術面的話那是不是用AI的科技"},{"start":703.028,"end":717.961,"text":"是不是用AI的科技來降低我們這個行政執行的這個成本這個我們也可以去配合國科會這邊來研究不過我還是要強調就是內容的這個網站內容的違法事實的認定與否這部分可能還是要主管機關來認定"},{"start":719.002,"end":737.398,"text":"﹗"},{"start":737.418,"end":737.438,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}}}