{"id":151165,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151165","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e86b21d4ee43df5f3bd5be8c4a3d24463f8ba9b0039caa7a6f0509819ccb48bc75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"13:08:21 - 13:17:26","影片長度":"00:09:05","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助、重建規劃及補助方式」及「從東華實驗室失火事件檢討災害防救之完備化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-11"},"date":"2024-04-15","duration":545,"end_time":"2024-04-15T13:17:26+08:00","start_time":"2024-04-15T13:08:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1580,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（13時8分）謝謝主席。有請內政部部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請林部長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。因為今天花蓮的事情比較多，所以本席可能會稍微說快一些。"],["林部長右昌：是，沒問題。"],["沈委員伯洋：第一個是災害防救中心，它有颱風、空氣品質等資訊，但民眾在災害發生的第一時間需要比較多的資訊，所以我們辦公室在災害剛發生的時候就整理了不少資料，就像這個樣子。我們整理了空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等資訊，包含他如果要申請補助，應該要到哪裡申請。我們大概整理了四十幾頁供民眾觀覽，不過因為我們辦公室人手不足啦！所以也沒有辦法做得太完整，本席的意思是，像這種災害發生的時候，如果中央有統一的資訊整合平台，似乎對民眾而言是很有用的。","本席的簡報上有日本的處理方式，例如人員是否安全，交通、物流資訊，本席覺得這是這次花蓮民眾最關心的，還有受災狀況、氣候狀況，如果這些資訊能夠更完整，就像日本一樣在網站上更新的話，對民眾會有更多幫助。我們未來有沒有這方面的計畫？"],["林部長右昌：謝謝委員垂詢。其實我們現在有消防防災一點通，除了共同圖像，基本的地圖、圖資都有建立，我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上繼續補強。"],["沈委員伯洋：圖資上可以加大頭針，註記這邊發生什麼事等等。因為這是原本就有的系統，如果就這個系統再往上加強的話，對人民會很有幫助，這是第一點。"],["林部長右昌：是，謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：第二點是災害重建條例的部分，因為從昨天開始，新聞報導就一直在說重建條例這件事情。本席覺得其實最大的重點還是在於，第一個，我們要有相當的預算，預算到位才能夠真正幫助這些受災戶，所以本席盤點了這些重建條例。以往最有名的兩個重建條例，一個是針對九二一地震，一個是莫拉克颱風災後重建條例，其實這兩個重建條例和現在的災害防救法有很多重疊的地方。","因為災害防救法已經修過很多次，我們做了一個表格，以莫拉克風災為例，因為它的時間比較近一點，它有住宅及財務援助，也有生活與就業支援，還包括保險、財務、稅務等等，這些都是那個條例比較特別的地方。所以是否需要專設一個條例？本席覺得如果現行法能夠解決，那麼根本就不需要條例，如果有現行法不能解決的事情，那這個條例就很有必要。","所以第一個當然就是它的組織架構，有沒有相關的委員會？這部分災防法其實也有。另外一個就是本席現在附在這個表格上面寫的，那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速，災防法目前有3條是行政程序的加速，莫拉克颱風那一次大概有5個條文，稍微多一點。你們有沒有做過評估？因為現在就重建條例的部分有聲音出來，哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法做到的，所以才需要這個重建條例？有缺少什麼嗎？"],["林部長右昌：謝謝委員。其實我們在做災害防救或者應變的時候，最重要的是三個工具，第一個是法律，第二個是機制，第三個是預算。臺灣在九二一地震之後，其實我們把這三件事情全部都建置起來了，所以我們能夠快速做相關應變，為什麼這次可以得到國際上的肯定？包括我們的速度可以這麼快，都和這個部分有很大的關連。我去年去美國訪問，也去借鏡人家的災防應變機制，但我們發現，臺灣真的是世界一級的，在溝通交流之後，反而臺灣有許多地方都是美方認為應該要借鏡的。","所以這次不管是搶、救災，或者是現在在做的安置，或者後續要做的復原、重建以及振興，我們現在都有相關工具。就目前的彙整評估，我們在現有的預算範圍內，基本上也可以支應，不過為了慎重起見，我們和花蓮縣政府及各部會正在做進一步的盤點，院會會召開相關的整合會議。"],["沈委員伯洋：剛才部長提到，就是工具、法律和預算。法律的部分，從事情發生到現在，本席在花蓮也待了5天，一直在注意有沒有法規比較不足的地方，目前看起來比較是沒有，反而是剛才最後提到的，預算是否足夠的問題需要討論。針對預算和善款這兩件事情，本席覺得可以討論一下，第一個，行政院第一天就說會撥3億元給花蓮縣政府，這3億元是其中一塊，後來又有衛福部的賑災基金會，目前可能募到七億多元。"],["主席：9億元。"],["沈委員伯洋：九億多元，這又是另外一塊。九億多元這個部分必須依據賑災基金會的要點發放，民眾只要符合這些要點，縣政府在盤點資源之後，照理說應該就會直接撥款，所以這九億多元會怎麼處理？地方怎麼執行？這些應該是比較清楚的。本席想問的是最早的那筆3億元，我們怎麼知道這3億元能不能確實用在花蓮人民身上？"],["林部長右昌：這3億元是應急的錢。為什麼會在第一時間馬上撥3億元給縣政府？就是要讓他們去處理一切其認為應該要緊急處理、需要用的經費，包括對災民的輔助、慰助或者相關安置的開銷，但最後當然要符合相關支用的規定，要完成後續的程序。這是應急，所以要趕快撥下去，讓他們可以立即使用。","另外，剛才提到賑災的捐款，它有兩塊，一塊是捐到縣政府，另外一部分是捐到中央的賑災基金會。賑災基金會有一個董事會，他們會針對這次的捐款有一個支用原則，現在他們提出的支用原則就包括災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建。它分成不同的應處階段，所以不管捐款有多少錢，全部都會用在這四個項目。","另外，萬一不夠的話，因為賑災基金會的支用原則，和後續要支用的整體金額，是依據各部會提報給行政院，由行政院核定相關計畫做經費使用，所以最後必須把使用細目公告在他們的網站上，讓每一筆捐款的人都了解自己捐的錢用到哪裡。另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款，其實這部分過去也行之多年，和賑災基金會是差不多的機制來運用善款，最後才是政府相關的公務預算。"],["沈委員伯洋：賑災基金會的要點和運作方式都很清楚，本席現在比較擔心的是，第一筆的3億元款項，到底是由花蓮縣政府編列，還是中央有一個規則？"],["林部長右昌：沒有。我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款，直接撥3億元給地方政府，不過最後這3億元用到哪裡，他們還是要回到統籌分配稅款支用的相關辦法。"],["沈委員伯洋：好的。因為目前地方上一直在談論這筆善款到底要怎麼運用，也提出很多質疑，傅崐萁委員也提到有地方縣議員說要做裝置藝術，但地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術，不是用善款，善款和縣府的預算是分開的。但是目前地方在執行上，就像這次傅崐萁委員說的，其實已經把這兩者混在一起，所以本席很怕這部分的善款運用方式，我們在對外說明時又混在一起，這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼取得，或怎麼讓這些資金運用到自己身上，後續我們還會繼續追蹤這件事，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：是，好的。"],["主席：好，謝謝沈伯洋委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-11","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張智倫","黃捷","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","丁學忠","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 542.65, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 542.65, \"end\": 542.81, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 542.81, \"end\": 542.83, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,897 --> 00:00:07,260\n好謝謝主席那有請部長有請林部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,749 --> 00:00:39,655\n委員好部長好因為今天我覺得花蓮的事情真的比較多所以可能會稍微比較快一些是沒問題那第一個就是這個災害防救中心那災害防救中心它本身有這些颱風、空氣等等的這些資訊但是因為第一時間民眾在災害發生的時候需要的資訊顯然是會比較多的所以我們辦公室在這個一開始發生的時候就整理了不少的資訊像這個樣子\n\n3\n00:00:41,115 --> 00:00:57,542\n譬如說我們去整理了各個比如說空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等之類的那也包含就是說譬如說他現在如果要申請補助他應該要往哪裡做所以這一個所以這一個下面這些資訊我們整理了大概40幾頁那也就是供民眾觀覽\n\n4\n00:00:58,462 --> 00:01:15,281\n因為我們畢竟辦公室人手也不足大概也不能做得太完整但我的意思就是說像這種災害發生的時候中央的一種統一資訊的平台似乎對民眾會很有效用那我這邊有放一個這個幫我換下一頁這個日本的方式就譬如說這個安否譬如說這個人能受保安全\n\n5\n00:01:15,842 --> 00:01:32,411\n交通跟物流我覺得是這一次華聯他們最關心的還有這些受災的狀況、氣候的狀況就這些資訊如果能夠更完整的像日本的這種網站更新在上面的話似乎可以對民眾會有更多的幫助所以不知道會不會未來會有這方面的一些計畫這樣子\n\n6\n00:01:36,219 --> 00:01:48,976\n其實我們現在有一個消防防災一點通那其實那個共同圖像其實基本的底圖圖資其實都建立在那個地方我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上面往上面加\n\n7\n00:01:49,737 --> 00:02:15,509\n因為圖資上面又可以加個大頭針然後這邊發生什麼事等等之類的我覺得因為就是原本就已經有個系統那系統再往上加強的話應該對人民會很有幫助那這是第一點那第二點就是說這個災後重建條例因為從昨天新聞就一直在講重建條例這件事情那我當然覺得其實最大的重點還是在於說第一個當然我們要有相當的一個預算然後預算要能夠到位能夠真正幫助到這些受災戶那我就去盤點\n\n8\n00:02:16,249 --> 00:02:16,409\n重建條例\n\n9\n00:02:33,141 --> 00:02:58,027\n以莫拉克風災為例住宅與財務援助生活就業支援、保險、財務、稅務等所以這些其實是那一個條例本身比較特別的地方因為我覺得一個要條例還是不要條例應該要看的是如果我們現行法能夠解決那其實我們根本就不需要條例但如果有現行法不能夠解決的事情的話那這個條例就很必要\n\n10\n00:02:58,527 --> 00:03:27,023\n所以第一個當然就是他組織架構就是說他有沒有相關的委員會這個災防法其實也有那另外一個就是我現在附在這一個表格上面的那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速那災防法目前有三條行政程序的加速那這個穆拉克颱風那一次大概有五個條文稍微比較多一點所以不知道這邊有沒有一個評估就是說因為重建條例這個聲音現在出來那是不是有哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法沒有辦法做到的才需要這個重建條例是有缺少什麼嗎\n\n11\n00:03:29,036 --> 00:03:52,569\n好謝謝委員其實我們在做災害防救或者是說在應變的時候最重要有三個工具第一個是法律第二個是機制第三個是預算那台灣在921這個地震之後其實我們把這三件事情其實全部都建置起來所以我們在做相關的一個應變的時候為什麼這一次可以得到國際上的一個肯定我們速度可以這麼快\n\n12\n00:03:53,670 --> 00:04:14,731\n跟這個有很大的原因其實我在去年的時候去美國訪問我們去這個也去接近人家的一些災防應變的一個機制其實我們可以發現臺灣真的是世界一體的反而是溝通交流之後反而是臺灣有許多是美方他們認為應該要接近的\n\n13\n00:04:15,472 --> 00:04:29,111\n所以在這一次的不管是搶救災或者是現在在做安置或者是後續要做復原跟重建以及這個振興我們其實相關的工具基本上現在都有那現在匯成起來評估我們現在的預算\n\n14\n00:04:32,375 --> 00:04:47,847\n在現有的一個預算的範圍裡面基本上也可以來做支應不過為了慎重起見我們也跟華南縣政府還有各部會正在做進一步的一個盤點那院會來進行相關的一個整合的一個會議\n\n15\n00:04:48,963 --> 00:05:08,473\n那剛剛部長提到就是工具、法律跟預算那法律的部分其實因為我這次在花蓮其實也從發生以來到現在我也待了五天所以呢其實一直以來就是一直看到底有沒有相關法規比較不足的地方那目前看起來其實是比較沒有所以反而是剛剛最後一個提到的到底預算足不足夠的這一個問題那我稍微來這個\n\n16\n00:05:10,374 --> 00:05:37,376\n預算跟善款這兩件事情我覺得可以討論一下第一個就是行政院在這個第一天的時候就有說會撥3億直接到這個花蓮縣政府那這個3億是其中一塊然後後來又有這個衛福部這個震災基金會那目前可能募到7億多了9億多了所以這又是另外一塊那因為這個我只要先跳過了就是9億這個部分它會有下面這個震災基金會裡面的要點\n\n17\n00:05:38,237 --> 00:05:59,657\n所以他會根據這個要點做發放那現在對我們來講就是說呢如果民眾他只要符合這些要點照理說縣政府在盤點資源之後應該就會直接過去所以對我們來講這個9億他到底會怎麼進行地方怎麼執行應該是比較清楚的那我想問的是那個第一個就最早的那個3億要怎麼知道這個3億能不能夠確實的到這個花蓮的人民身上\n\n18\n00:06:00,598 --> 00:06:18,559\n這部分3億是應急的錢也就是為什麼在第一個時間馬上撥了3億給這個縣政府就是讓他去處理一切他認為應該要緊急處理需要用的這些經費包括對災民的一個輔助、衛助或者說包括相關安置的一個開銷\n\n19\n00:06:19,861 --> 00:06:20,682\n規定來完成後續程序\n\n20\n00:06:50,341 --> 00:06:51,362\n災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建\n\n21\n00:07:08,788 --> 00:07:24,654\n如果萬一不夠的話因為震災基金會它的自用的原則跟後續要自用的整體的金額它會依據行政院我們各部會提給行政院行政院來核定的這個相關的一個計劃來做這個經費的一個使用\n\n22\n00:07:28,615 --> 00:07:44,998\n那最後最後必須要把使用的這些息目都公告在這個他們的網站上面讓每一筆的捐款人他都了解他捐的錢去到了哪裡那另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款的這部分那地方政府在這過去也行之多年\n\n23\n00:07:45,919 --> 00:08:08,261\n其實同樣跟震災基金會有一個差不多的一個機制來做這個善款的一個運用那最後最後才是我們政府的相關的一個公務的一個預算好那我現在因為比較擔心的震災基金會因為要點還有它這個所在運作的一個方式大概是比較清楚那就是第一筆那個3億的款項它到底是要花蓮縣政府這邊編然後還是說就是還是中央這邊就有一個規則\n\n24\n00:08:09,502 --> 00:08:23,552\n我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款直接撥3億給地方政府不過他最後他還是要這3億他用到哪裡去還是要回到統籌分配稅款的相關的這個資用的一個相關的辦法\n\n25\n00:08:24,552 --> 00:08:42,712\n因為這個目前的地方上就一直在說之前這個0406這個善款到底怎麼運用提出了很多質疑那這個我看到這個婦婚期委員也有提到說這個地方縣議員自己就有說要做這個裝置藝術但因為地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術他不是提用善款\n\n26\n00:08:43,172 --> 00:09:02,830\n所以善款跟縣府的預算又是分開的但目前在地方執行上因為這一次副官級委員講的就已經把這兩個混在一起了所以我很怕說前面這一塊再運用的一個方式我們在對外的說明上面又混在一起這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼去取得然後怎麼樣讓這些資金運用到自己的身上所以後續我們可能還會再繼續追這個方向謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5897\t7260\t好 謝謝主席 那有請部長有請林部長\n15749\t39655\t委員好部長好因為今天我覺得花蓮的事情真的比較多所以可能會稍微比較快一些是沒問題那第一個就是這個災害防救中心那災害防救中心它本身有這些颱風、空氣等等的這些資訊但是因為第一時間民眾在災害發生的時候需要的資訊顯然是會比較多的所以我們辦公室在這個一開始發生的時候就整理了不少的資訊像這個樣子\n41115\t57542\t譬如說我們去整理了各個比如說空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等之類的那也包含就是說譬如說他現在如果要申請補助他應該要往哪裡做所以這一個所以這一個下面這些資訊我們整理了大概40幾頁那也就是供民眾觀覽\n58462\t75281\t因為我們畢竟辦公室人手也不足大概也不能做得太完整但我的意思就是說像這種災害發生的時候中央的一種統一資訊的平台似乎對民眾會很有效用那我這邊有放一個這個幫我換下一頁這個日本的方式就譬如說這個安否譬如說這個人能受保安全\n75842\t92411\t交通跟物流我覺得是這一次華聯他們最關心的還有這些受災的狀況、氣候的狀況就這些資訊如果能夠更完整的像日本的這種網站更新在上面的話似乎可以對民眾會有更多的幫助所以不知道會不會未來會有這方面的一些計畫這樣子\n96219\t108976\t其實我們現在有一個消防防災一點通那其實那個共同圖像其實基本的底圖圖資其實都建立在那個地方我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上面往上面加\n109737\t135509\t因為圖資上面又可以加個大頭針然後這邊發生什麼事等等之類的我覺得因為就是原本就已經有個系統那系統再往上加強的話應該對人民會很有幫助那這是第一點那第二點就是說這個災後重建條例因為從昨天新聞就一直在講重建條例這件事情那我當然覺得其實最大的重點還是在於說第一個當然我們要有相當的一個預算然後預算要能夠到位能夠真正幫助到這些受災戶那我就去盤點\n136249\t136409\t重建條例\n153141\t178027\t以莫拉克風災為例住宅與財務援助生活就業支援、保險、財務、稅務等所以這些其實是那一個條例本身比較特別的地方因為我覺得一個要條例還是不要條例應該要看的是如果我們現行法能夠解決那其實我們根本就不需要條例但如果有現行法不能夠解決的事情的話那這個條例就很必要\n178527\t207023\t所以第一個當然就是他組織架構就是說他有沒有相關的委員會這個災防法其實也有那另外一個就是我現在附在這一個表格上面的那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速那災防法目前有三條行政程序的加速那這個穆拉克颱風那一次大概有五個條文稍微比較多一點所以不知道這邊有沒有一個評估就是說因為重建條例這個聲音現在出來那是不是有哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法沒有辦法做到的才需要這個重建條例是有缺少什麼嗎\n209036\t232569\t好 謝謝委員其實我們在做災害防救或者是說在應變的時候最重要有三個工具第一個是法律第二個是機制第三個是預算那台灣在921這個地震之後其實我們把這三件事情其實全部都建置起來所以我們在做相關的一個應變的時候為什麼這一次可以得到國際上的一個肯定我們速度可以這麼快\n233670\t254731\t跟這個有很大的原因其實我在去年的時候去美國訪問我們去這個也去接近人家的一些災防應變的一個機制其實我們可以發現臺灣真的是世界一體的反而是溝通交流之後反而是臺灣有許多是美方他們認為應該要接近的\n255472\t269111\t所以在這一次的不管是搶救災或者是現在在做安置或者是後續要做復原跟重建以及這個振興我們其實相關的工具基本上現在都有那現在匯成起來評估我們現在的預算\n272375\t287847\t在現有的一個預算的範圍裡面基本上也可以來做支應不過為了慎重起見我們也跟華南縣政府還有各部會正在做進一步的一個盤點那院會來進行相關的一個整合的一個會議\n288963\t308473\t那剛剛部長提到就是工具、法律跟預算那法律的部分其實因為我這次在花蓮其實也從發生以來到現在我也待了五天所以呢其實一直以來就是一直看到底有沒有相關法規比較不足的地方那目前看起來其實是比較沒有所以反而是剛剛最後一個提到的到底預算足不足夠的這一個問題那我稍微來這個\n310374\t337376\t預算跟善款這兩件事情我覺得可以討論一下第一個就是行政院在這個第一天的時候就有說會撥3億直接到這個花蓮縣政府那這個3億是其中一塊然後後來又有這個衛福部這個震災基金會那目前可能募到7億多了9億多了所以這又是另外一塊那因為這個我只要先跳過了就是9億這個部分它會有下面這個震災基金會裡面的要點\n338237\t359657\t所以他會根據這個要點做發放那現在對我們來講就是說呢如果民眾他只要符合這些要點照理說縣政府在盤點資源之後應該就會直接過去所以對我們來講這個9億他到底會怎麼進行地方怎麼執行應該是比較清楚的那我想問的是那個第一個就最早的那個3億要怎麼知道這個3億能不能夠確實的到這個花蓮的人民身上\n360598\t378559\t這部分3億是應急的錢也就是為什麼在第一個時間馬上撥了3億給這個縣政府就是讓他去處理一切他認為應該要緊急處理需要用的這些經費包括對災民的一個輔助、衛助或者說包括相關安置的一個開銷\n379861\t380682\t規定來完成後續程序\n410341\t411362\t災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建\n428788\t444654\t如果萬一不夠的話因為震災基金會它的自用的原則跟後續要自用的整體的金額它會依據行政院我們各部會提給行政院行政院來核定的這個相關的一個計劃來做這個經費的一個使用\n448615\t464998\t那最後最後必須要把使用的這些息目都公告在這個他們的網站上面讓每一筆的捐款人他都了解他捐的錢去到了哪裡那另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款的這部分那地方政府在這過去也行之多年\n465919\t488261\t其實同樣跟震災基金會有一個差不多的一個機制來做這個善款的一個運用那最後最後才是我們政府的相關的一個公務的一個預算好那我現在因為比較擔心的震災基金會因為要點還有它這個所在運作的一個方式大概是比較清楚那就是第一筆那個3億的款項它到底是要花蓮縣政府這邊編然後還是說就是還是中央這邊就有一個規則\n489502\t503552\t我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款直接撥3億給地方政府不過他最後他還是要這3億他用到哪裡去還是要回到統籌分配稅款的相關的這個資用的一個相關的辦法\n504552\t522712\t因為這個目前的地方上就一直在說之前這個0406這個善款到底怎麼運用提出了很多質疑那這個我看到這個婦婚期委員也有提到說這個地方縣議員自己就有說要做這個裝置藝術但因為地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術他不是提用善款\n523172\t542830\t所以善款跟縣府的預算又是分開的但目前在地方執行上因為這一次副官級委員講的就已經把這兩個混在一起了所以我很怕說前面這一塊再運用的一個方式我們在對外的說明上面又混在一起這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼去取得然後怎麼樣讓這些資金運用到自己的身上所以後續我們可能還會再繼續追這個方向謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請部長有請林部長\n委員好部長好因為今天我覺得花蓮的事情真的比較多所以可能會稍微比較快一些是沒問題那第一個就是這個災害防救中心那災害防救中心它本身有這些颱風、空氣等等的這些資訊但是因為第一時間民眾在災害發生的時候需要的資訊顯然是會比較多的所以我們辦公室在這個一開始發生的時候就整理了不少的資訊像這個樣子\n譬如說我們去整理了各個比如說空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等之類的那也包含就是說譬如說他現在如果要申請補助他應該要往哪裡做所以這一個所以這一個下面這些資訊我們整理了大概40幾頁那也就是供民眾觀覽\n因為我們畢竟辦公室人手也不足大概也不能做得太完整但我的意思就是說像這種災害發生的時候中央的一種統一資訊的平台似乎對民眾會很有效用那我這邊有放一個這個幫我換下一頁這個日本的方式就譬如說這個安否譬如說這個人能受保安全\n交通跟物流我覺得是這一次華聯他們最關心的還有這些受災的狀況、氣候的狀況就這些資訊如果能夠更完整的像日本的這種網站更新在上面的話似乎可以對民眾會有更多的幫助所以不知道會不會未來會有這方面的一些計畫這樣子\n其實我們現在有一個消防防災一點通那其實那個共同圖像其實基本的底圖圖資其實都建立在那個地方我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上面往上面加\n因為圖資上面又可以加個大頭針然後這邊發生什麼事等等之類的我覺得因為就是原本就已經有個系統那系統再往上加強的話應該對人民會很有幫助那這是第一點那第二點就是說這個災後重建條例因為從昨天新聞就一直在講重建條例這件事情那我當然覺得其實最大的重點還是在於說第一個當然我們要有相當的一個預算然後預算要能夠到位能夠真正幫助到這些受災戶那我就去盤點\n重建條例\n以莫拉克風災為例住宅與財務援助生活就業支援、保險、財務、稅務等所以這些其實是那一個條例本身比較特別的地方因為我覺得一個要條例還是不要條例應該要看的是如果我們現行法能夠解決那其實我們根本就不需要條例但如果有現行法不能夠解決的事情的話那這個條例就很必要\n所以第一個當然就是他組織架構就是說他有沒有相關的委員會這個災防法其實也有那另外一個就是我現在附在這一個表格上面的那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速那災防法目前有三條行政程序的加速那這個穆拉克颱風那一次大概有五個條文稍微比較多一點所以不知道這邊有沒有一個評估就是說因為重建條例這個聲音現在出來那是不是有哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法沒有辦法做到的才需要這個重建條例是有缺少什麼嗎\n好 謝謝委員其實我們在做災害防救或者是說在應變的時候最重要有三個工具第一個是法律第二個是機制第三個是預算那台灣在921這個地震之後其實我們把這三件事情其實全部都建置起來所以我們在做相關的一個應變的時候為什麼這一次可以得到國際上的一個肯定我們速度可以這麼快\n跟這個有很大的原因其實我在去年的時候去美國訪問我們去這個也去接近人家的一些災防應變的一個機制其實我們可以發現臺灣真的是世界一體的反而是溝通交流之後反而是臺灣有許多是美方他們認為應該要接近的\n所以在這一次的不管是搶救災或者是現在在做安置或者是後續要做復原跟重建以及這個振興我們其實相關的工具基本上現在都有那現在匯成起來評估我們現在的預算\n在現有的一個預算的範圍裡面基本上也可以來做支應不過為了慎重起見我們也跟華南縣政府還有各部會正在做進一步的一個盤點那院會來進行相關的一個整合的一個會議\n那剛剛部長提到就是工具、法律跟預算那法律的部分其實因為我這次在花蓮其實也從發生以來到現在我也待了五天所以呢其實一直以來就是一直看到底有沒有相關法規比較不足的地方那目前看起來其實是比較沒有所以反而是剛剛最後一個提到的到底預算足不足夠的這一個問題那我稍微來這個\n預算跟善款這兩件事情我覺得可以討論一下第一個就是行政院在這個第一天的時候就有說會撥3億直接到這個花蓮縣政府那這個3億是其中一塊然後後來又有這個衛福部這個震災基金會那目前可能募到7億多了9億多了所以這又是另外一塊那因為這個我只要先跳過了就是9億這個部分它會有下面這個震災基金會裡面的要點\n所以他會根據這個要點做發放那現在對我們來講就是說呢如果民眾他只要符合這些要點照理說縣政府在盤點資源之後應該就會直接過去所以對我們來講這個9億他到底會怎麼進行地方怎麼執行應該是比較清楚的那我想問的是那個第一個就最早的那個3億要怎麼知道這個3億能不能夠確實的到這個花蓮的人民身上\n這部分3億是應急的錢也就是為什麼在第一個時間馬上撥了3億給這個縣政府就是讓他去處理一切他認為應該要緊急處理需要用的這些經費包括對災民的一個輔助、衛助或者說包括相關安置的一個開銷\n規定來完成後續程序\n災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建\n如果萬一不夠的話因為震災基金會它的自用的原則跟後續要自用的整體的金額它會依據行政院我們各部會提給行政院行政院來核定的這個相關的一個計劃來做這個經費的一個使用\n那最後最後必須要把使用的這些息目都公告在這個他們的網站上面讓每一筆的捐款人他都了解他捐的錢去到了哪裡那另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款的這部分那地方政府在這過去也行之多年\n其實同樣跟震災基金會有一個差不多的一個機制來做這個善款的一個運用那最後最後才是我們政府的相關的一個公務的一個預算好那我現在因為比較擔心的震災基金會因為要點還有它這個所在運作的一個方式大概是比較清楚那就是第一筆那個3億的款項它到底是要花蓮縣政府這邊編然後還是說就是還是中央這邊就有一個規則\n我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款直接撥3億給地方政府不過他最後他還是要這3億他用到哪裡去還是要回到統籌分配稅款的相關的這個資用的一個相關的辦法\n因為這個目前的地方上就一直在說之前這個0406這個善款到底怎麼運用提出了很多質疑那這個我看到這個婦婚期委員也有提到說這個地方縣議員自己就有說要做這個裝置藝術但因為地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術他不是提用善款\n所以善款跟縣府的預算又是分開的但目前在地方執行上因為這一次副官級委員講的就已經把這兩個混在一起了所以我很怕說前面這一塊再運用的一個方式我們在對外的說明上面又混在一起這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼去取得然後怎麼樣讓這些資金運用到自己的身上所以後續我們可能還會再繼續追這個方向謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.897 --> 00:07.260\n好謝謝主席那有請部長有請林部長\n\n00:15.749 --> 00:39.655\n委員好部長好因為今天我覺得花蓮的事情真的比較多所以可能會稍微比較快一些是沒問題那第一個就是這個災害防救中心那災害防救中心它本身有這些颱風、空氣等等的這些資訊但是因為第一時間民眾在災害發生的時候需要的資訊顯然是會比較多的所以我們辦公室在這個一開始發生的時候就整理了不少的資訊像這個樣子\n\n00:41.115 --> 00:57.542\n譬如說我們去整理了各個比如說空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等之類的那也包含就是說譬如說他現在如果要申請補助他應該要往哪裡做所以這一個所以這一個下面這些資訊我們整理了大概40幾頁那也就是供民眾觀覽\n\n00:58.462 --> 01:15.281\n因為我們畢竟辦公室人手也不足大概也不能做得太完整但我的意思就是說像這種災害發生的時候中央的一種統一資訊的平台似乎對民眾會很有效用那我這邊有放一個這個幫我換下一頁這個日本的方式就譬如說這個安否譬如說這個人能受保安全\n\n01:15.842 --> 01:32.411\n交通跟物流我覺得是這一次華聯他們最關心的還有這些受災的狀況、氣候的狀況就這些資訊如果能夠更完整的像日本的這種網站更新在上面的話似乎可以對民眾會有更多的幫助所以不知道會不會未來會有這方面的一些計畫這樣子\n\n01:36.219 --> 01:48.976\n其實我們現在有一個消防防災一點通那其實那個共同圖像其實基本的底圖圖資其實都建立在那個地方我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上面往上面加\n\n01:49.737 --> 02:15.509\n因為圖資上面又可以加個大頭針然後這邊發生什麼事等等之類的我覺得因為就是原本就已經有個系統那系統再往上加強的話應該對人民會很有幫助那這是第一點那第二點就是說這個災後重建條例因為從昨天新聞就一直在講重建條例這件事情那我當然覺得其實最大的重點還是在於說第一個當然我們要有相當的一個預算然後預算要能夠到位能夠真正幫助到這些受災戶那我就去盤點\n\n02:16.249 --> 02:16.409\n重建條例\n\n02:33.141 --> 02:58.027\n以莫拉克風災為例住宅與財務援助生活就業支援、保險、財務、稅務等所以這些其實是那一個條例本身比較特別的地方因為我覺得一個要條例還是不要條例應該要看的是如果我們現行法能夠解決那其實我們根本就不需要條例但如果有現行法不能夠解決的事情的話那這個條例就很必要\n\n02:58.527 --> 03:27.023\n所以第一個當然就是他組織架構就是說他有沒有相關的委員會這個災防法其實也有那另外一個就是我現在附在這一個表格上面的那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速那災防法目前有三條行政程序的加速那這個穆拉克颱風那一次大概有五個條文稍微比較多一點所以不知道這邊有沒有一個評估就是說因為重建條例這個聲音現在出來那是不是有哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法沒有辦法做到的才需要這個重建條例是有缺少什麼嗎\n\n03:29.036 --> 03:52.569\n好謝謝委員其實我們在做災害防救或者是說在應變的時候最重要有三個工具第一個是法律第二個是機制第三個是預算那台灣在921這個地震之後其實我們把這三件事情其實全部都建置起來所以我們在做相關的一個應變的時候為什麼這一次可以得到國際上的一個肯定我們速度可以這麼快\n\n03:53.670 --> 04:14.731\n跟這個有很大的原因其實我在去年的時候去美國訪問我們去這個也去接近人家的一些災防應變的一個機制其實我們可以發現臺灣真的是世界一體的反而是溝通交流之後反而是臺灣有許多是美方他們認為應該要接近的\n\n04:15.472 --> 04:29.111\n所以在這一次的不管是搶救災或者是現在在做安置或者是後續要做復原跟重建以及這個振興我們其實相關的工具基本上現在都有那現在匯成起來評估我們現在的預算\n\n04:32.375 --> 04:47.847\n在現有的一個預算的範圍裡面基本上也可以來做支應不過為了慎重起見我們也跟華南縣政府還有各部會正在做進一步的一個盤點那院會來進行相關的一個整合的一個會議\n\n04:48.963 --> 05:08.473\n那剛剛部長提到就是工具、法律跟預算那法律的部分其實因為我這次在花蓮其實也從發生以來到現在我也待了五天所以呢其實一直以來就是一直看到底有沒有相關法規比較不足的地方那目前看起來其實是比較沒有所以反而是剛剛最後一個提到的到底預算足不足夠的這一個問題那我稍微來這個\n\n05:10.374 --> 05:37.376\n預算跟善款這兩件事情我覺得可以討論一下第一個就是行政院在這個第一天的時候就有說會撥3億直接到這個花蓮縣政府那這個3億是其中一塊然後後來又有這個衛福部這個震災基金會那目前可能募到7億多了9億多了所以這又是另外一塊那因為這個我只要先跳過了就是9億這個部分它會有下面這個震災基金會裡面的要點\n\n05:38.237 --> 05:59.657\n所以他會根據這個要點做發放那現在對我們來講就是說呢如果民眾他只要符合這些要點照理說縣政府在盤點資源之後應該就會直接過去所以對我們來講這個9億他到底會怎麼進行地方怎麼執行應該是比較清楚的那我想問的是那個第一個就最早的那個3億要怎麼知道這個3億能不能夠確實的到這個花蓮的人民身上\n\n06:00.598 --> 06:18.559\n這部分3億是應急的錢也就是為什麼在第一個時間馬上撥了3億給這個縣政府就是讓他去處理一切他認為應該要緊急處理需要用的這些經費包括對災民的一個輔助、衛助或者說包括相關安置的一個開銷\n\n06:19.861 --> 06:20.682\n規定來完成後續程序\n\n06:50.341 --> 06:51.362\n災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建\n\n07:08.788 --> 07:24.654\n如果萬一不夠的話因為震災基金會它的自用的原則跟後續要自用的整體的金額它會依據行政院我們各部會提給行政院行政院來核定的這個相關的一個計劃來做這個經費的一個使用\n\n07:28.615 --> 07:44.998\n那最後最後必須要把使用的這些息目都公告在這個他們的網站上面讓每一筆的捐款人他都了解他捐的錢去到了哪裡那另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款的這部分那地方政府在這過去也行之多年\n\n07:45.919 --> 08:08.261\n其實同樣跟震災基金會有一個差不多的一個機制來做這個善款的一個運用那最後最後才是我們政府的相關的一個公務的一個預算好那我現在因為比較擔心的震災基金會因為要點還有它這個所在運作的一個方式大概是比較清楚那就是第一筆那個3億的款項它到底是要花蓮縣政府這邊編然後還是說就是還是中央這邊就有一個規則\n\n08:09.502 --> 08:23.552\n我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款直接撥3億給地方政府不過他最後他還是要這3億他用到哪裡去還是要回到統籌分配稅款的相關的這個資用的一個相關的辦法\n\n08:24.552 --> 08:42.712\n因為這個目前的地方上就一直在說之前這個0406這個善款到底怎麼運用提出了很多質疑那這個我看到這個婦婚期委員也有提到說這個地方縣議員自己就有說要做這個裝置藝術但因為地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術他不是提用善款\n\n08:43.172 --> 09:02.830\n所以善款跟縣府的預算又是分開的但目前在地方執行上因為這一次副官級委員講的就已經把這兩個混在一起了所以我很怕說前面這一塊再運用的一個方式我們在對外的說明上面又混在一起這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼去取得然後怎麼樣讓這些資金運用到自己的身上所以後續我們可能還會再繼續追這個方向謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.897,"end":7.26,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請部長有請林部長"},{"start":15.749,"end":39.655,"text":"委員好部長好因為今天我覺得花蓮的事情真的比較多所以可能會稍微比較快一些是沒問題那第一個就是這個災害防救中心那災害防救中心它本身有這些颱風、空氣等等的這些資訊但是因為第一時間民眾在災害發生的時候需要的資訊顯然是會比較多的所以我們辦公室在這個一開始發生的時候就整理了不少的資訊像這個樣子"},{"start":41.115,"end":57.542,"text":"譬如說我們去整理了各個比如說空運、海運、鐵路、客運等等之類的那也包含就是說譬如說他現在如果要申請補助他應該要往哪裡做所以這一個所以這一個下面這些資訊我們整理了大概40幾頁那也就是供民眾觀覽"},{"start":58.462,"end":75.281,"text":"因為我們畢竟辦公室人手也不足大概也不能做得太完整但我的意思就是說像這種災害發生的時候中央的一種統一資訊的平台似乎對民眾會很有效用那我這邊有放一個這個幫我換下一頁這個日本的方式就譬如說這個安否譬如說這個人能受保安全"},{"start":75.842,"end":92.411,"text":"交通跟物流我覺得是這一次華聯他們最關心的還有這些受災的狀況、氣候的狀況就這些資訊如果能夠更完整的像日本的這種網站更新在上面的話似乎可以對民眾會有更多的幫助所以不知道會不會未來會有這方面的一些計畫這樣子"},{"start":96.219,"end":108.976,"text":"其實我們現在有一個消防防災一點通那其實那個共同圖像其實基本的底圖圖資其實都建立在那個地方我們可以隨時在這樣的底圖上面往上面加"},{"start":109.737,"end":135.509,"text":"因為圖資上面又可以加個大頭針然後這邊發生什麼事等等之類的我覺得因為就是原本就已經有個系統那系統再往上加強的話應該對人民會很有幫助那這是第一點那第二點就是說這個災後重建條例因為從昨天新聞就一直在講重建條例這件事情那我當然覺得其實最大的重點還是在於說第一個當然我們要有相當的一個預算然後預算要能夠到位能夠真正幫助到這些受災戶那我就去盤點"},{"start":136.249,"end":136.409,"text":"重建條例"},{"start":153.141,"end":178.027,"text":"以莫拉克風災為例住宅與財務援助生活就業支援、保險、財務、稅務等所以這些其實是那一個條例本身比較特別的地方因為我覺得一個要條例還是不要條例應該要看的是如果我們現行法能夠解決那其實我們根本就不需要條例但如果有現行法不能夠解決的事情的話那這個條例就很必要"},{"start":178.527,"end":207.023,"text":"所以第一個當然就是他組織架構就是說他有沒有相關的委員會這個災防法其實也有那另外一個就是我現在附在這一個表格上面的那另外還有一個就是行政程序的加速那災防法目前有三條行政程序的加速那這個穆拉克颱風那一次大概有五個條文稍微比較多一點所以不知道這邊有沒有一個評估就是說因為重建條例這個聲音現在出來那是不是有哪些是我們現在的法令沒有辦法沒有辦法做到的才需要這個重建條例是有缺少什麼嗎"},{"start":209.036,"end":232.569,"text":"好 謝謝委員其實我們在做災害防救或者是說在應變的時候最重要有三個工具第一個是法律第二個是機制第三個是預算那台灣在921這個地震之後其實我們把這三件事情其實全部都建置起來所以我們在做相關的一個應變的時候為什麼這一次可以得到國際上的一個肯定我們速度可以這麼快"},{"start":233.67,"end":254.731,"text":"跟這個有很大的原因其實我在去年的時候去美國訪問我們去這個也去接近人家的一些災防應變的一個機制其實我們可以發現臺灣真的是世界一體的反而是溝通交流之後反而是臺灣有許多是美方他們認為應該要接近的"},{"start":255.472,"end":269.111,"text":"所以在這一次的不管是搶救災或者是現在在做安置或者是後續要做復原跟重建以及這個振興我們其實相關的工具基本上現在都有那現在匯成起來評估我們現在的預算"},{"start":272.375,"end":287.847,"text":"在現有的一個預算的範圍裡面基本上也可以來做支應不過為了慎重起見我們也跟華南縣政府還有各部會正在做進一步的一個盤點那院會來進行相關的一個整合的一個會議"},{"start":288.963,"end":308.473,"text":"那剛剛部長提到就是工具、法律跟預算那法律的部分其實因為我這次在花蓮其實也從發生以來到現在我也待了五天所以呢其實一直以來就是一直看到底有沒有相關法規比較不足的地方那目前看起來其實是比較沒有所以反而是剛剛最後一個提到的到底預算足不足夠的這一個問題那我稍微來這個"},{"start":310.374,"end":337.376,"text":"預算跟善款這兩件事情我覺得可以討論一下第一個就是行政院在這個第一天的時候就有說會撥3億直接到這個花蓮縣政府那這個3億是其中一塊然後後來又有這個衛福部這個震災基金會那目前可能募到7億多了9億多了所以這又是另外一塊那因為這個我只要先跳過了就是9億這個部分它會有下面這個震災基金會裡面的要點"},{"start":338.237,"end":359.657,"text":"所以他會根據這個要點做發放那現在對我們來講就是說呢如果民眾他只要符合這些要點照理說縣政府在盤點資源之後應該就會直接過去所以對我們來講這個9億他到底會怎麼進行地方怎麼執行應該是比較清楚的那我想問的是那個第一個就最早的那個3億要怎麼知道這個3億能不能夠確實的到這個花蓮的人民身上"},{"start":360.598,"end":378.559,"text":"這部分3億是應急的錢也就是為什麼在第一個時間馬上撥了3億給這個縣政府就是讓他去處理一切他認為應該要緊急處理需要用的這些經費包括對災民的一個輔助、衛助或者說包括相關安置的一個開銷"},{"start":379.861,"end":380.682,"text":"規定來完成後續程序"},{"start":410.341,"end":411.362,"text":"災害援助、緊急醫療、收容安置以及復原重建"},{"start":428.788,"end":444.654,"text":"如果萬一不夠的話因為震災基金會它的自用的原則跟後續要自用的整體的金額它會依據行政院我們各部會提給行政院行政院來核定的這個相關的一個計劃來做這個經費的一個使用"},{"start":448.615,"end":464.998,"text":"那最後最後必須要把使用的這些息目都公告在這個他們的網站上面讓每一筆的捐款人他都了解他捐的錢去到了哪裡那另外有一塊就是地方政府的捐款的這部分那地方政府在這過去也行之多年"},{"start":465.919,"end":488.261,"text":"其實同樣跟震災基金會有一個差不多的一個機制來做這個善款的一個運用那最後最後才是我們政府的相關的一個公務的一個預算好那我現在因為比較擔心的震災基金會因為要點還有它這個所在運作的一個方式大概是比較清楚那就是第一筆那個3億的款項它到底是要花蓮縣政府這邊編然後還是說就是還是中央這邊就有一個規則"},{"start":489.502,"end":503.552,"text":"我們是用中央的統籌分配稅款直接撥3億給地方政府不過他最後他還是要這3億他用到哪裡去還是要回到統籌分配稅款的相關的這個資用的一個相關的辦法"},{"start":504.552,"end":522.712,"text":"因為這個目前的地方上就一直在說之前這個0406這個善款到底怎麼運用提出了很多質疑那這個我看到這個婦婚期委員也有提到說這個地方縣議員自己就有說要做這個裝置藝術但因為地方議員提的是用縣府的預算做裝置藝術他不是提用善款"},{"start":523.172,"end":542.83,"text":"所以善款跟縣府的預算又是分開的但目前在地方執行上因為這一次副官級委員講的就已經把這兩個混在一起了所以我很怕說前面這一塊再運用的一個方式我們在對外的說明上面又混在一起這樣人民會不知道到底要怎麼去取得然後怎麼樣讓這些資金運用到自己的身上所以後續我們可能還會再繼續追這個方向謝謝"}]}}}}